 Hi everyone, very festive crowd tonight. Really happy to see you all here. My name's Cynthia Smith. I'm the curator of by the people designing a Better America exhibition that's currently on display both on the first floor and third floor of the museum. It will be on display now through February 26th though. So if you did not have an opportunity to see it, please do. It includes 60 designs from around the United States that address the complex issues of social and spatial inequities in urban, suburban, and rural communities. Design responses range in scale from the entire city of Detroit, not just Revolnau, but the entire city of Detroit, to a mobile health app for expectant mothers. So we are in Cooper Hewitt Smithsonian Design Museum. Welcome. It's the only museum in the US devoted exclusively to design. The event this evening is the first of several we have scheduled in conjunction with by the people. The next is sold out, but you can watch online. It's about how design can meet the needs of underserved communities. It's co-organized with Pratt Institution and takes place on February 2nd. On February 9th, we'll examine the new civic role of public libraries in the 21st century. And we will also have a discussion on design cities and cognitive computing on February 15th. You can RSVP to any and all of these events by going to cooperhewitt.org. I'd like to take a moment right now to thank our sponsors. By the people is made possible by the generosity of the Ford Foundation, IBM, along with additional support provided by Elizabeth and Lee Ainsley, Dutch Bank, Gensler, the Lilly Aachenclose Foundation, the Rudin Family Foundation, the New York State Council on the Arts, Autodesk, and the Horace W. Goldsmith Foundation. Kind of say it's by the people, funded by the people. We have a very long list of supporters. Many thanks to all of them. Tonight, I'm delighted to have Amy Peters and Patricia Caldwell from Detroit's Rebel Now. They're here to tell us about their growing social enterprise. I'll be moderating the conversation. As sadly, ideo.org's Shauna Carey has become ill. And I understand is contagious, so we're happy that she's staying home. But she's not able to make it tonight. And where's the camera? Shauna, if you're watching, we're live streaming. I feel better, get better. I was excited to include Rebel Now in By the People. It really embodies the spirit of the exhibition. Neighbors working together and using design to improve one another's lives. In this case, an attorney, Amy Petersen, was inspired by the resilience of the women she met and founded a social enterprise named Rebel Now. Community collaboration is key to this work. And Patricia Caldwell joined the Rebel Now team, one of the original three creative designers. She's a leader. She challenges the group to think outside the box, helps design new products, and now manages Rebel Now's production. And so first off, we'll have Amy and Patricia speak. And then they'll join me, and we'll have a conversation. And then I'll open it up to the audience at the end. So without further ado, Rebel Now. Hi, guys. Thanks for coming. And we are so honored that you all came out to hear our story and what we're doing in Detroit. My name is Amy Petersen, and this is Patricia Caldwell. We work at Rebel Now. I founded Rebel Now. I'll give you a little background of how Rebel Now started. As Cynthia mentioned, I am an attorney for a sports team in Detroit. As a little girl, I always wanted to work in baseball. And that was kind of an odd dream. My mom is here, and she can attest to the fact that she's like, huh, OK. And so I set out with that dream in mind. Went to law school, went to business school with that sole objective. And after graduating, I then applied to work for free for almost every team in baseball, except the Yankees, but we don't tell them. And I was very fortunate enough, after rejection letters, to a point where I was collecting them. I had a lovely letterhead from almost every team saying, thanks, but no thanks. And then I finally, after three rejection letters, got an opportunity to go to the Tigers. And I packed my entire life up into Mini Cooper. So you can imagine the space that I had working with me, and including an air mattress. And I rolled my way to Detroit in 2007. And I've been always so grateful to the city because I recognized the opportunity it provided to me. It gave me a shot at my dream. And that was always something that I had in the back of my mind. And where I lived in Detroit was right next door to a really well-known shelter called COTS, which stands for the Coalition on Temporary Shelter, a Women and Family Shelter. And this is a little bit about our stories, how it started. That lovely little face in the upper your left hand corner is my dog, Elby. He is the real reason Rebel now exists. And Patricia can back me up on this, as he's a regular figure at our workshop. He has never met a stranger. And when I would walk my dog, he would encourage me to have conversations with the residents of the shelter because we shared a yard. And while he was getting basically like a deep tissue massage because he loves everybody, I would strike up conversations with the residents. And these women are truly incredible. And they left very challenging situations in search of better opportunities, not only for themselves, but for their families. These are women that I continue to talk to about just the challenges that they faced and the struggles that they left behind. And they needed somebody to believe in them. So my business partner in the lower left corner is Diana Russell. And the two of us decided to come up with this idea to help our neighbors. And the reason really started around providing financial literacy classes. A lot of what we heard was not only some emotional and physical abuse, but there was also some financial abuse that kept popping up as a theme. So we figured if we could provide that tool and resources, it would prevent them from going back into the shelter later on. And then we thought, well, how can we provide this programming? We would need to come up with some funding. How are we going to do this? Well, both Diana and I had a background in jewelry making. And we thought, OK, well, that was really a common denominator. I never set out to have a jewelry business like this. It was just something that we had in common. So we wanted to pay tribute to the city. We thought, let's come up with something Detroit-centric. So we looked at everything from tires to bricks to all sorts of things. And then one day, I was running on a place called the DeQuinter Cut. And there was graffiti that had fallen on the ground. I thought, oh, that looks kind of neat. So I took it back to my house. I started playing around with it and realized that it was made up of all these different layers. And I thought, oh, that's pretty sweet. Wonder if we can expose these layers. And so about four months of trial and error, we played around. And we came up with this really unique product of making jewelry out of graffiti. The proceeds from that would go to providing for the educational programming. And then we thought, well, why not teach a woman to fish all the way around? So let's provide them with employment. Let's provide them with these opportunities. And we'll eventually get them back on their feet so that they can transition into jobs that are more in line with their dreams and realities. So that was sort of the background about how Rebel Nell started. And what we really do at Rebel Nell is we employ women and embolden them to see their self-worth. And we are, you can see this. This is one of our amazing creative designers, Asi. She is the life of the party. The laughter a minute, what did you say? So much soul. So much soul, like she's hilarious. And she's working on some of our pieces that, again, one of the really unique things, and Patricia can go into this in greater detail, is if you look at our jewelry, every piece is completely one of a kind and truly unique, not only because of the cross-section of graffiti, but because of the women who made it. We give our women complete creative freedom to cut whether shapes, color patterns, and sizes speak to them. So you really, we say it often, our jewelry is our voice. And our jewelry is the voice of our customers to really stand up and be proud of what our company represents. And we really believe at the core we provide a support system. We believe in empowering women and educating women and allowing them to go forth and prosper in this world. Here's just another picture. This is at the workshop, just working away. And then just to go a little bit deeper into the classes that we offer. So as I mentioned, financial literacy is a very important part of Rebel Now. So we do that. We provide business education, life wellness, housing resources, legal aid, life wellness, vision boarding. It runs the gamut. And what I'm really proud of that we do is we really do a great job of listening and listening to what have been the barriers that have been prohibitive in the past. And how do we address them? We are a very small company. We don't hire a lot because we go really, really deep with the women that we do hire and making sure that everything is solved. So when you come in the door, one of the things that we ask is that you are as transparent with us and be open and honest. And if you are willing to let us in, we're willing to try and tackle the problems that have been issues in the past. So with all that being said, these classes have really paid off. And what we're averaging right now is about a year of our program, we sort of consider it the breathing program. So you come in, we get you out of the shelter within about a month and a half of working for us. We have you in housing. Next thing we really tackle are your finances, help you understand what budgeting looks like, making sure that you're spending within what's reasonable for you and your family. And we do this on a one-on-one basis because every woman's different, every situation is different. We also do a deep dive in if driver's licenses need to be restored and making sure that you don't have any barriers to getting to your job. And so those are really all of the things that the products that we sell go back into supporting. So we're really proud of this work. And to go a little bit, actually, I'll let you take over from here. You can talk about our products. We can go deeper into the discussion later. But that's a little bit about how Rebel Now started and how I got involved in Rebel Now was really my love of the city and my love of neighbors. And I will turn it to the amazing Patricia to tell you how she got involved in Rebel Now. And she's not allowed to leave. She's one of the greatest things that's ever happened to Rebel Now. I've already stated I wasn't leaving before, so you can't get rid of me that easily, even if you tried. OK. You're saying it's shorter than you. That pretty much is it. OK, so how I became involved with Rebel Now is just like Amy has said, that I was in the well known shelter in the area called Cots, named Pots. And at the moment, I was kind of like a little bit disgusted with a lot of things that were going on in my life. I was looking for a job. I was looking for a shelter, a place to stay. Quite a bit of things that had gone south in my life. What happened, at one point, I went to, had an interview at another, some other place. And it didn't go well. So I was denied. And I was a little bit heartbroken. And just out of nowhere, someone came up to me and just like, hey, we think that you would be a good fit for Rebel Now. And I'm like, who is Rebel Now? And whatever. OK. And I was kind of like, well, let's do it. What can it hurt? So I just went on with the interview. I had some counselor at the shelter at the time. And she put me in contact with, she was a little bit slick and sly, got Amy's information and just got me the interview. So at the time, I had my children. They were with me. I didn't have a place for them to go. I had to just take off and walk to the place where we were going to do the interview. And I had my son go and sit in the McDonald's and just kind of like chill out there and do the interview. Let's go ahead and do the interview. Let's get it over with. So what happened was when I went into do the interview with Diana and Amy, Amy right here, I did the interview. And it was kind of like, I was kind of relaxed. Kind of like whatever. I don't know what's going to happen at this point. What's the worst that can happen? So we did an interview. And by me having a background, that's the part I didn't say, I have a background in jewelry making, design, and just anything that has to do with creativity. So that pretty much was the way I won them over. I just went in and told my story. I have a long history of, I went through abuse myself, physical and verbal abuse of my children's father. He did a number on me. So I devolved a little bit at to Amy, gave them my story, gave them my background in jewelry making and design and everything, and just was just real and laid it out on the table right there. And Amy and Diana, they were just as, they were the same. They were welcoming. They were, they just made me feel really comfortable. And so they didn't plan on at the time. They just kind of like went with it. Let's do the interview, sure. They didn't plan on hiring, what was it, a second, a third? We had actually closed our interviewing process. Yeah, so. I fell in love with her, and I was like, oh, crap. Yeah. It makes sense financially. Yeah, at all. We'll do it. And so it was kind of like, they were like, OK, well, your third, when we didn't expect you, I didn't expect it. It was just like, I happened upon it. But I really appreciate the opportunity, because since then, I have just been a part of the Rebellion family. We are so, we are close knit family. We've gone through a lot. We've learned. We've loved. We went through so many different periods of just ups and downs all together. And I learned a lot from Amy. She's taught me a whole heck of a lot about just business perseverance and just strength all together. She's really a great and awesome woman. So at Rebellion, a bit of what I do at Rebellion. So when I first came to Rebellion, Diana, she at the time was like quality control. She showed me the ropes, hand me over to the tools and to whatever the materials. And she just told me, this is where you do it. I said, OK, that sounds nice. Looks good. Let's do it this way for a second. And then I figured out how to kind of fine tune it and make it easier for a lot of the women that were coming behind me after me. Just recognizing that it's pretty easy for me because this is what I do. But a lot of the women were having some complications. So I just kind of pretty much kind of made it a little bit simpler. I don't know. The process is still a process. So what you see, the finished product, it goes through. It goes through what you see there. I mean, there's a lot of work that the women at Rebellion put in a lot of love. And a lot of just we make sure that we put our hearts into each and every piece. So when you get to the finished product, you better believe that it was well put together. And I'm not having it. I'm quality control. I don't buy. Anything gets nothing gets by me. Nothing, nothing at all. So that's why at this junction, I've come from where I was at the bottom. Now I'm here. I'm production manager. And with that comes a lot. There's a lot to be is a lot to I'm still learning, of course. I didn't have any experience in management at the time. I don't know what Amy was thinking, but she just came and threw it through the ball in my hands. And I was like, OK, well, I was already kind of going that direction like, no, don't do this and don't do that. But there's a lot of responsibility. So I'm taking on the challenge. It's quite a bit of learning experience. It's a process. Rebellion is a process. I love it. Like I said, I've come through the ranks. I've learned how to fine-tune a lot of the different things, come up with very specific shapes and sizes and pieces to kind of like that to be specific for, or I don't know the word, but everybody's different. So I decided that at the point where we began wanting to do organic shapes and things like that, I decided to just take it, take the ball, and just do whatever my heart desired. And I just encouraged the women to do the same thing. And they were already there. We have some amazing team. We just come up with whatever at the moment. We have days where we are all over the place. We have days where we're down, we're up, and it shows into each piece. So some of the pieces look like crazy all over the place, but they work. They really do. And then some of the pieces just like, hey, oh, it's so cute. But we have fun. I just really appreciate the opportunity to do what I do because it's a love of mine as well as it has gotten me to a place where I'm more stable. It is very, very vital that companies like Rebel Nail are springing up all over Detroit because there is a lot of homelessness, a lot of helplessness. And it's just important to have someone who has a heart for the people. So I just, I appreciate the opportunity, just. And that's pretty much it. And it's your first time in New York City, so long overdue. It's crazy. It's long overdue. I should have been here a long time ago. I may not get her back. You might not be. Yeah, like I said, Rebel Nail, New York, here we come. Can't get rid of me. Yeah, so I think there's two other slides just so I officially finish this. And Cooper here is happy. Just kind of our growth strategy. We are really, oh, that's funny. I didn't even realize I have invested in a PR firm. From Sky Media, a little shout out to our PR firm. So thank you for being here. But we have had a lot of great exposure. And Cooper here, it needs to be added to the slide. This is one of the greatest opportunities. I mean, you guys can be in our shoes for one second. Can you imagine the day I walked into a really small shop in Detroit, a workshop where everybody's working hard, loves each other. And I said, by the way, we just got into the Smithsonian Museum. And the Cooper here designed me. No, it was just we're still in awe and so grateful. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for believing in us. Thank you to Cynthia, to finding us. I still don't even know how you stumbled on us. But I'm beyond grateful. I truly believe in the work that we're doing. And I will get emotional because it's not easy. But we love it. And we see the impact. And it just starts small. It starts by putting just one foot in front of the other. And next thing you know, you're at the Cooper. You're at the Cooper Hewitt. So it's not that bad. So yeah, and just some other recognition. We were at the Ernst & Young Social Entrepreneur of the Year this year from Michigan and Detroit. We won the National Award. But that was a big honor for us. We've been recognized by Martha Stewart for our work. And we won the Gingrass Global for Social Enterprise and Sustainability Award in 2015. So just a couple of highlights from us. And then I'll turn it over to Cynthia. You practiced. Very good. Well, that was terrific. Thank you so much. It was interesting to hear that you both have a background in jewelry making. And so how much of that crept into what you're making now? And in fact, it would be helpful. I know we talked about it. Maybe Patricia can tell us the process of making for Rebel Now and then how much of what happens at Rebel Now. Your previous jewelry making has crept into the design. Well, the process kind of is a lengthy process. So what we do is we take, she's a silver and we cut out whatever we can think of as I explained before. And then after we cut, we have plenty of this graffiti. It's an abundant local resource in Detroit. So we just go, we just reach into our handy dandy trick bag and then just grab out some whatever colors, whatever we think is good for the season, moment or whatever. And we just cut it to size, to cut it to the shape that the silver is cut and then we adhere it to it. The process of taking it from this, that something looks like this, is just what we collected and bits and pieces that falls off the walls. It's something, we just take it through a process and rebuild all the layers from beneath. And then we come up with a pretty neat piece like this. So. And you can see, we'll leave these out and show you guys later. It's worth to see the before and after to see how we do expose the layers. It's hard to see from that far back. Okay. So, and then once that happens, we just adhere it and then we take it through a series of process where we kind of use this tool that you've probably seen a few times of using the little drill and we sand the edges and we sand and we sand and we sand away until it's nice and smooth and perfect. And then we'll take another attachment and it's a silicone tip. And we just go around the edges to make it very shiny. Make sure that there are no rigid edges and nothing is revealing and the silver, everything is perfectly layered. And then we take it over and put a protective coat of resin on top. We allow that to dry overnight. And then once it's dry, then we go around the edges again and again and again and again. So it's a lot of going around the edges and making sure that nothing is exposed from that to buffing the back of the silver, making sure all of the scratches and dents and kinks are out. And then we, from then we clean it and then we chain or hook or whatever we have because now we started out with signature pieces which were the pendants and then we added on dangly earrings. So along with the pendants, we do the dangly earrings and those are both the bulk of the time and the process there. So then we also have other products. There are some cuff links, bracelets and other things. Yep, rings, post earrings and some, yeah. So those we just, we kind of like to go through a process, we just punch through those out and adhere them to the, what are the little, the bezels and then put the protective coat of resin on it. And that's pretty much that. So that's what we do there. How long does it take? So the pendant is probably the largest piece, right? The most intricate. How long does a pendant take to make from start to finish? It's kind of hard to say. You can't put a finger on it because a lot of the times we have different situations, different complications. But I would say that because of the process, oh, I forgot to mention that once we adhere it to the silver, it has to dry overnight. So that's one night. And then we, when we put the protective coat of resin on it, it dries overnight as well. But if we take that process out, it may be, what do you think, maybe five hours? Yeah, I would estimate, yeah, three and a half to four per piece. We do them in batches, so it's not like one piece per. Kind of hard to say. But that's what we estimate. Do you ever, I know you go out and harvest. I mean, I find this really fascinating. They don't tear it off the wall. They actually find it on the ground and they say they harvest it, which I love that idea of harvesting in Detroit. Do you ever reject pieces? Do you say, oh, this isn't colorful enough or beautiful enough even before it ever gets to the workshop? Well, actually, before it gets to the workshop, no. So once we're out harvesting, and we use these as team activity nights, we go and pick up all the graffiti and then we'll usually go out to dinner afterwards. What's really cool is we're starting to get graffiti from other locations. We've had people send it to us from Chicago. We have some from Sao Paulo, Brazil. Shout out to my friends Sabrina back there. And we have people in the community that will just go on walks in Detroit, find it, put it in a bag and bring it back to us. And we do have a strict policy. We don't touch it till it does fall off the walls. We have a lot of respect for some of the muralists that are out there, so we don't wanna make any enemies. But to go back to your question, which was whether or not we judge before we get it back to the shop. And one of our number one rules that we have at Rebel Now is you never judge it by its top layer. And we think that that's a really good lesson in life anyway. So, because we go through and we expose all the layers. So we even have one piece that may look like complete mud. It's ugly shade of brown. And next thing you know, you go underneath and there's gold and pinks and all these cool colors that come out. And we also think that's a great metaphor for a lot of the work that we're doing. So no, we don't, but there are some pieces once we're in the shop that they're just ugly through and through. That gets revealed. That's probably true. We still use ugly. Sometimes we still do. It's just if it's too thin, we don't use it. Yeah, right. Right, because you want the layering effect, right? If it's too thin. So, well, that's interesting because there is this kind of metaphor that runs throughout the entire enterprise from the name to how you select to how you process it. Can you tell us a little bit more about the name Rebel Nell and what it symbolizes? Yes, that is actually my favorite story to tell. So when Diane and I were coming up with a name, this was probably one of the hardest parts, or hardest, yeah, it was one of the hardest parts when we actually were getting started as to what kind of name would be representative of what we're doing as a company? And we really wanted to pay tribute to a trailblazer who would come before us, whose ideas we really wanted to emulate. And both Diane and I adore Eleanor Roosevelt and everything that that woman stood for. She was an incredible, she was a pioneer and in her time, she was an advocate for women's rights, civil rights, she was a humanitarian, and her nickname that her dad gave her was Little Nell. And frankly, we thought she was worthy of a little more kick-ass nickname. So we gave her the name Rebel Nell. We also thought that that really worked because the women that we hire are really rebelling against what life's dealt to them. And we're dealing with graffiti, which is rebellious in and of itself. So I love our name. I think that it really does do a good job of representing who we are. And so I understand, so it's Rebel Nell defiant jewelry with a purpose. I understand with a purpose why defiant jewelry. I think a lot of that came in our early days because we were trying to break the mold. We were trying to do something different and go against the grain. And that just sort of popped up in one of our meetings and we liked it, so we rolled with it. It works. And so you started a social enterprise. I'm curious, how is a social enterprise different from a regular business or a non-profit? That's a really good question. And to be honest, I didn't know what a social enterprise was when I started Rebel Nell. I had never heard of anything like that. For me, I was just starting this company that was helping my neighbors and I didn't realize what it could be. And we are set up as an L3C. I actually don't know if they have them in New York. They're in a few states. And that's a limited low profit liability company. So it's essentially how I view it is if 501C3 a non-profit and an LLC were to have a child. And what that really looks like is that this business is putting the social mission first. Profit is very important to us because obviously if we don't sell jewelry, we don't exist. But what I really believe strongly in was practicing when I was preaching. I'm trying to teach these women about being self-sufficient and sustainable and being able to, with hard work and hustle, you can defend for yourself and provide for yourself. And I thought as a business owner, I needed to do the same thing. So that was a lot of thought behind that and why I chose to do the L3C model versus a 501C3. Part of my concern with a 501C3 is if I was relying on grant money to come in and all of a sudden that grant money was cut off one day, I'm no longer in control of my own destiny. So that was a lot of the reason why we started it this way and why we're set up as an L3C. And so you didn't explore other business models necessarily, or did you? No, once I found out about the L3C, I went with it. I probably should have done a deeper dive. I'm very much a shoot from the hip kind of person. But the L3C, while in theory, it's wonderful. In practice, it's not quite there yet. There are no true advantages. We are taxed just like in LLC. Everything for that purpose is very much the same. The only thing that's unique about it is that we are eligible to receive PRI funding from foundations. However, the one tricky part is that very few foundations are familiar with the PRI, being able to give their PRI money to L3Cs. Can you tell us what PRI funding is? I'm sorry, yes, because I also didn't know. It's the program related investment and it's the 5% that foundations can give out every year and usually it goes to charitable purposes. We can take that and they can actually get a return on that money. The challenge is that a lot of foundations have the mentality, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. We've been doing what we've been doing for so long. L3Cs are kind of this gray area. So I think the educational component could be a little bit stronger on the L3C level. Do you find that this model has been a success so far? If somebody's in the audience today, would you say, yes, this is a way to go forward? Has it been? I think, truthfully, it has been and we've been getting a lot of praise for being sustainable and that is, I always want to be doing more and doing better. I have to appreciate that we've done a good job of providing for ourselves and one of the things that we really won't sacrifice on is we believe in paying over minimum wage for the labor for all of their time and in fact, someone asked me last night, we actually would be profitable if we just paid minimum wage. But as a social enterprise, I think those are the questions you need to ask yourself and that's one of those profit versus mission and I'd rather take the hit financially to know that my employees are taking care of. So these are just really a lot of the questions. But whether or not our model is perfect, jury's still out, we'll see. If you guys invite me back in two more years, I'll have a much better tale to tell but we're still, we're figuring it out and I am very proud of the fact we have been sustainable for four years now. So one of the things you do, you have this integrated approach where you provide these key services that support the women's journey within the structure of the business, financial literacy, access to credit. Can you talk a little bit more about those and to bring Patricia into the conversation? Can you also tell us how these key services and classes were helpful to you? And in addition, are there other services that you think might be, sounds like you have a whole range and we'd love to hear all about those? Or other women, the women that you work with might find helpful. Does that conversation go on between everyone? Yeah, I think that's the other thing is we also balance production with education. So when we offer these classes, the women are on the clock. So we're paying them to attend these educational classes because we think that it really improves the overall employee and it improves them. So, and I think we do, again, we're still figuring out but I think we do a really good job of listening and figuring out what classes are needed and adjusting and going forward. But I can, you can, what's the word? So they've been, what's the word? It doesn't matter, okay. So, with the classes that we take there, Rebonell, the financial literacy, any legal help that we have, women's empowerment type group meetings and they've been a great help, great source for a lot of the ladies there, myself, definitely included. I benefited from them greatly because I at, like I said, I was having complications and difficulty with financial stability and a lot of things and when I came aboard, yeah, of course we done some of the courses, some of the courses that we have taken, we had no clue. We were kind of like, hey, what is this? Because, you know, where we come from or some of the ladies, we just, you know, we do what we can. We kind of like just adapt and adjust to what is going on in the community. We don't have a great understanding of how to spend and things like that. So, I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot about financial, you know, just learning how to manage my money, learning how to just prioritize and things like that. So, it's been a great help. It's been a great help for me and a lot of other ladies there. How do you get into Southwest? South, the house over in Southwest. So, yeah, definitely the assistance that was provided it allowed me and helped me get a place to live where as before I was in the shelter. So, definitely having somewhere to go with my two children was a plus. So, yeah, there's a lot that goes on and takes place in Rebel Nails that any ordinary job would not provide. You just go to work and you get whatever they give you, minimum wage and you're barely making ends meet. And so, with the fact that we have these classes, these courses that not only empower us and teach us how to manage, we also get well above minimum wage. So, we are able to manage and do what we need to do for our families. So, these, my understanding, you also provide entrepreneurship classes, is that true? So, I find that fascinating. Is it the whole idea is eventually that you might decide that you're gonna start your own business or? Definitely, yeah. So, in my mind, I've always wanted to start my own business. Again, I've had those complications, so it was not a priority or it's easy for me to do so. Now, I see it isn't in the near future, but the thing is is I really kind of like don't wanna leave Rebel Nails, so I'm fighting with that. But, yeah, there's a few things that I learned about business through these courses. Definitely has me doing, writing out my plan, my business plan and everything. So, I'm just writing out, still struggling with what to do. So, but yeah. And I think we sort of structure the business, the intra-entrepreneurship classes is we are a startup business. We are a small business. Use this as a learning tool. Learn from our mistakes. They are, everybody actually is so involved in every business decision that we make at Rebel Nail. They know when we've had a good month, a bad month, where our finances are, they know everything. And I think that that on top of the classes that we offer just really helps you understand the life of an entrepreneur and the challenges it takes, or the challenges that you face. In addition to that, it also teaches you, the classes also have sort of a twist where it teaches you how to be a good employee as well. So, we do that, not only for the benefit of Rebel Nail, but also thinking of future jobs. How to be, how to know how to act in a professional setting. We know that we are very loose at Rebel Nail. But that's part of the transition, is getting to a place where you can breathe and stabilize and we go through the ups and downs with you. But the next job, hopefully has better benefits, better pay, but you are in a better spot to adapt to that culture a little bit more. So, that's part of what we also do with the classes. So, how many people are working at Rebel Nail right now? And do they quote, unquote, graduate and move on? How does that work? I know you're relatively new, so. Yeah, we've hired 12 women since we started in 2014. Well, I'm really proud of the fact that we've graduated four. I count Patricia as a graduate because she would have by now moved on to a job, another job had I not kept her here and promoted her captive, yes. But I mean, she is now production manager. She's now a salaried employee. She's done wonderful things, but the other three have gone on to jobs that have also been more in line with their career objectives and what they wanted to do. Our very first, when we first interviewed her, she was one of our first employees and she has this passion for helping reintegrate ex-offenders, particularly those with mental issues. So, we knew that from the beginning and she worked with us for two and a half years and all during that time, once we got her finances order, then the next step was what do you need to get this job? She found the job, so we knew the qualifications. We allowed her to go back to school. We helped her prep for the interview. We helped her get her driver's license. She also needed a chauffeur's license in order to apply for the job. So, we just sort of helped her and it took some time to check all the boxes and then she applied and well-deserved she got the job. So, this is kind of the goal for Rebel Nell is that they just can then pursue their dreams. My goal is not to make jewelry makers out of everybody, but no stretch of the imagination. Do I want that? I just want them to be able to come in, have a good job, have an understanding job and then let's figure out what do you really want to do and let's get you there. So, location is probably important for this particular, I assume, is it important where you're located and where are you located in Detroit? That's also a really great question. So, we were in the process of looking for a bigger space and one of the things that is of utmost importance to me is accessibility. Detroit, we have horrible transportation system. Having a car is challenging. So, we need to make sure that we're easily accessible which limits our real estate opportunities and now Detroit is becoming a little bit pricier. So, we fortunately found a space that's very close where it's right across the street from where we currently are, but being near a bus route and a good bus route, I don't want them to be have to take four or five buses to get to us. I want it to be easily accessible. So, we sort of use the shelter as our main focus point and so we are, it's a one change from Cots to... You can walk, yeah, we're close enough to walk but it is just one change. So, that was, that's really important, especially in a city like Detroit where we don't have the fantastic public transportation. From both of your perspectives, do you think the Revolnail model might be transferable to other locations or some version of it? Maybe even, well, New York. Starting it tomorrow. Yeah, I'm like, I want to build this company as sort of a franchise model. I would love some day to have Revolnail, New Orleans, Revolnail, Chicago, Revolnail, New York. I think that that is a realistic dream for us. We need a couple more years to really iron out what we've got going for us, but I think... Yeah, I'm really hopeful, I can see it. We're stretching, we're expanding. We're doing well, so I do believe so, and in the near future. Have you seen other social enterprises in Detroit similar to what you're doing? Is there like a whole cadre of people doing similar work? There are some, I would say there's not enough. And I think the tricky part is defining social enterprise because the field is pretty expansive. In fact, my dear friend Elizabeth Garlow is here in the back and she knows a lot about this as well. But you can even be considered a social enterprise if you have, say, a buy one, give one model similar to Tom's or even if you're a company that just donates a portion of your proceeds to a charitable organization. They all right now fit in the lump the lump term of social enterprise. When I define social enterprise, I believe that it's employing a particular workforce that has had challenges in the past that is providing a good that goes right back to benefit. So when we have the empowerment plan in Detroit, which is a wonderful example, they are phenomenal. I don't know if you guys haven't checked them out. I highly recommend it. They hire women out of the same shelter that we do to make coats that are then provided to people who are living on the streets. And they're fantastic. Another great company is called Better Life Bags. They employ women, they employ immigrant women and they make beautiful handbags in the state of Detroit. They're another great company. Elizabeth, who am I missing? Those are good ones. So yeah, they're becoming more and more popular but those are, I mean I'd love to see a bajillion of them. I think this is a good way to go. How many? There's Detroit Greens, I think. It's something like that. Yeah, Detroit Food Academy. So this is full-time work for you, Patricia, right? Yes, it is. And are you working full-time? How many hours a week do both of you? I work around the clock. I still have my full-time job as an attorney for a sports team. And I do, this is my passion project. I also have a one-year-old baby now. So things are really nutty but I have one heck of a team that, and a part of my willingness to throw her in and say, yes, you are ready for manager, whether or not you think so. But I absolutely believe it. I'm a firm believer in empower those who empower you. And she was ready and she's stepped up like none other. So if you have this amazing team and people who, to be honest, I think part of the reason I'm able to do it, I have wonderful support from my husband, to my family, to my team at Rebel Mel. But the beauty of technology and what we accomplish through text messages during a day is mind-blowing. Is mind-blowing. Amazing. I don't think my fingers ever work so fast. My thumbs are. So, yeah, I work a spend of maybe, you don't know a lot of it, but sometimes this will be easier. But 35 plus hours, I just say that, because I'm there all night sometimes. I even take work home with me at times, so yeah. So you have a passion for this now? I do, I do. So, I only have one more question. We're about to open it up to the audience. So get your questions ready. So, can you just tell us a little bit about the structure of Rebel Mel and how it's grown? You began in 2013, is that correct? Yeah, actually this is kind of a good story because as I mentioned, we had shut off hiring and it's one of those things, people always ask me, what piece of advice you'd give somebody? And I always say get an account in early because I learned the hard way. And had I had that account in early, he would have, she would have told me, yeah, only hire one woman, you're crazy. Only funding we ever did was, we did a small pitch competition at a wonderful nonprofit called Detroit Soup. Another one, write it down, look it up, it's phenomenal. We won $1,400. With that, we then did a Kickstarter campaign, Indiegogo campaign, we raised $25,000. And we were just like, yeah, let's go for it. And again, that accountant could have played a great role because they would have said, your nuts, just hire one woman, start there. And Diana and I fell in love with three. And so we said, screw it, we're good at it. God, you didn't hire an accountant. I know, we wouldn't have met. So we just decided we were gonna figure it out. If that meant we had to hustle harder to support it, we were gonna do it. We started, it was a freezing cold day in December. Worst winter ever. We didn't have much heat in our workshop. No heat. And these guys show up for the first day of the job and Diana are like, grab some equipment, we're gonna lug it up to the space. And I know that I was so impressed they came back for day two, to be honest. But they deserve so much credit because it's more about our first round of hires for believing in us than it was about us believing in them. Because we, like I said, we're shooting from the hip. We could only provide eight hours of work a week. And it was at that time, it was minimum wage. Like that's really all we could do. And until we figured it out. Fortunately, things picked up for us pretty quickly. And within six months, everyone was full time and we had bumped the wages up, at least, I know, to $10 at that point in time. And then have since gone up. But yeah, it was a wild ride. Still, I mean, we still buckle our seat belts but it certainly was when we started. So I think we're ready to take some questions from the audience. Susanna has the mic and she'll bring it around. Hi, everybody. I came in a little bit late, so I don't know if I missed this, but I mean, I think this is an amazing idea I've read about you guys. And then my friend told me about this, so I was excited to come. I just wanted to know about the teaching component. So was that like, I guess who teaches the classes and like, how did you guys decide what was lacking or what was important? And kind of like, how did you develop that process that I think it's genius? Thanks, and it's, we're constantly evolving our process. What we really do is we listen. And we've added, we constantly add classes. Sometimes we've taken them away if they didn't work. But who does the classes is a really important question. And I really believe in know what you know and don't try and do too much. So we are fortunate that we have a ton of community support. So we really rely on experts that have agreed to volunteer for us and help us out. So we have a financial advisor who comes in and meets with us. We have a woman named Yodit Mesfin who's incredible who does our, they're called Lips and Hips classes and they're women empowerment classes. We have Natalia who does our vision boarding. We have the amazing people at Lifeline Consulting who do our, yeah Nicole Farmer and her team that do all of our intro to entrepreneurship classes. So really relying on experts in the field who are willing to dedicate their time to us. But I will say the one thing that is very important to me and I sort of grill everybody who offers to be a volunteer for us. I'm grateful to anybody who does but I also am very respectful of our women and their time and their energy and their love. I ask for a year long commitment because I also am sensitive to people that have come in and out of their lives and to just have someone come in and not show up the next day. I don't think that sets a really good tone. So I'm very, I want to say harsh but I go through a pretty strict screening process with our volunteers. But that is I think really important and how our classes expand. I think we just do, I mean we get it all the time. Like you guys will come and say, hey Amy we want to try this. It's like great, let's get out. We've tried yoga and that didn't work out. She's, I don't remember that being my idea but she says it was, apparently I'll just say stuff that I don't mean, I don't like yoga. Really interested in how it started at the very, very, very beginning how you were able to go in there and you will seduce these women to want to do this and what was the nature of their commitment and how did you convince them and what were they offered? Is that a hard question? I think it's actually a great question and I actually think the person better to answer this is Patricia but I will say that I think they probably thought we were straight nuts. I mean here we are, we met in a coffee shop and we present this piece of jewelry that's made out of graffiti and we don't care necessarily, Patricia was a diamond in the rough but most of our employees have zero background in making jewelry and a lot of them are like you want me to do what? That's graffiti. Perform magic. Yeah, perform magic so I think, yeah I think that how the whole concept, what they were thinking. She was our first employee and she personally thought. I don't know what to think because I had a lot of my mind and somebody told me making jewelry out of graffiti I was like how do you do that? I was like that doesn't make sense but whatever, let's do it. So it was just pretty much just, I was lured anyway because it was jewelry. I love jewelry and so it wasn't hard. When you said the concept of, we were gonna have this company and show up this date at this sketchy building. Yeah, I mean. What the heck? It was, I couldn't really break that down in my minds because I was already going through a lot. It's just somebody said job and our end. So and then on top of that it was jewelry already because somebody just saw me in passing going through the shelter and kind of like referred me to the job and then that's just how I came about and then I was told about making jewelry and I said okay, let's go, let's do it. And I didn't understand, I really couldn't fathom it and then we got into the shop and I'm still just like okay, whatever, let's show me. And so we went through the process and then it just became clear. And it was like, ah. And that's just pretty much how it went. And that was one of the traditional classes. The question is how did it evolve to education classes? That was really important for me right off the bat. And the first thing we did, and this is the other thing we do also, we set up bank accounts. We work really closely with a local bank and they were kind enough to say, we like what you're doing, we will give bank accounts to your employees. And that to me was also a sign of financial freedom because now it's amazing how we take for granted a debit card. But if you were going through a lot of financial abuse, this is one way where you take back control. You know, it's in a card. So we direct deposit everything there. Actually, you're not allowed to have just a paycheck. We just put it all to your account. And that was the first step. And so then I was like, okay. Then we just started talking. We just, you know, it was just sitting around when we would work Monday, Tuesday and Thursday nights and say, you know, tell me about you. I remember one of our first hires had just rented all of this furniture from a company, not to mention names, but it's like a center. And it was mind blowing how much money she was spending a month on stuff that you just don't need. And there's better outlets or better ways to use your money. So we encouraged her to return it all. And then we just helped her find supplemental furniture. We have a wonderful relationship with a great company called Humble Design that will come in and give you free furniture. But just things like that, just listening and having the conversations, having the dialogue, understanding each other. And one thing after another, it's like, oh, you know what we should do? It would be really inspiring. Let's get a vision board teacher in here. And so we do vision boarding. And I mean, Yodi, who does the lips and heaps of women empowerment classes, I mean, we crave her after a while. Like she's just so uplifting and connects all of us. And again, I think, you know, especially in today's world, having conversations, meeting your neighbors, learning about them, no matter where you are, no matter who you are, what you look like, is a good place to start. Because I think that's how we started. Yeah, thank you. I was just curious, are you able to provide health benefits to employees? Is this like a source of frustration for a lot of social enterprises? Because I think it's pretty expensive, so. Correct. We are not. We have not been able to provide health programming yet. Well, one thing we do provide, which another, I will say, that's been pretty cool, is if you've been with us over a year, we set you up with a simple IRA account that the company contributes to and matches. So what you're doing is amazing. But as it comes to, I think it's interesting that the idea of making the jewelry came about because you wanted to find a way to pay for the education. But maybe this is a question more for Patricia, but for both of you, how important did the sense of purpose and the job and the position every day, like how did that impact you just as much as maybe the education? It's the most. I feel like, I feel like you can go to an ordinary job and you can feel like if you do this job, you know, you'll get paid. But working with Rebel Nail is very important because I feel like I am actually needed. I'm actually, you know, it's like, I respect it. You know, I have a place there. It's not just, you know, where you go to, as where you go to an ordinary job and if you don't show up or you're not on time or you know, you're fired, you know, just as easily. We have not so much flexibility, you know, right now, but it's very understanding. So I think it's, you know, your role, my role at Rebel Nail is very important and I'm showing that each and every day. So we appreciate each other. I think it's very interesting now in the days of very fast fashion and you go through an H&M and you see like a pack of earrings and you're just like, I have to have them. They're $5. And I think the storytelling around Rebel Nail is so important because it promotes such conscious consumerism and how are you explaining that to people when you're not preaching to them and trying to convince them but just maybe talk a little bit more about the impact of conscious consumerism and is that becoming a trend and how is that relate to Rebel Nail? Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges we face are people will come up and say, oh, you're so expensive and our prices range from $40 all the way up to $200. But for an impulse purchase, we are in the luxury category. No one needs jewelry, we understand that. So we are competing with things that are mass produced in China and they make them for 50 cents where ours costs a heck of a lot more to make but that goes into labor. But what I think is really beautiful about what is going on is there is a growing trend of conscious consumers and we have a lot of people that come up to us and say, I can't buy it now, but I will. And they come back and we've had so many that I won't see them for a year and they'll come back and they'll be like, I've saved my $40, I wanna get these study hearings and that means a lot to us because we know that that purchase means a lot to them and they're gonna have it a lot longer than maybe the $3 H&M hearings that maybe won't last as long. So I hope that there's a sentimental connection with what you're doing and the fact that your purchase actually is making a difference. And I know sometimes that's hard, a lot of companies say that, but it truly is with us and that has to be part of our story and I hope that more companies do that because I think there is an audience that will resonate with that. Do you ever do consignment pieces like if somebody has an idea about a product or a special piece or is it specifically designed by the people that work for you? We definitely do consignment pieces. In fact, this is a funny story that I know we're laughing now because I was very opposed to making the number one request we get is make the Michigan mitt. Everyone in Michigan will tell you where they live and point to their, and we get it all the time. And I'm like, no, I am not compromising our integrity. I love that we are making these unique, one-of-a-kind pieces. And then 2017 hits, I'm like, Patricia, can we make 25 Michigan mitts? I'm not. Yeah, and so I'm justifying it right now because I'm like, no, these are limited edition. We're only making 25, but they will sell and we need the money. So that's one of those juggling acts of balancing the business with the mission and making sure that, but doing one-off consignment pieces we do often. You've made a couple of crosses for people and... Hearts or I don't know just anything you can think of, but then I also do some specific things myself. Just whenever I have time away from, you know, whatever the workload for the week is, just feeling like that, I just make specific things. But yeah, we have times where we're making, doing consignment work and we're making hearts and I don't know anything like that in the Michigan mittens and stuff like that, so. I know. It's cool though. Hi, firstly, 40 bucks is not that much. And neither is 200. Well, for New York, we will stress New York. Detroit pricing is a little different. I'm curious to know whether you have thought about expansive in terms of craft making. So developing work in a way that still is reflective of the graffiti work that you're doing, but doing it in terms of ceramics or I don't know, some other form of. I think we're always scheming and I think all companies should do that. You know, at some point in time, hopefully everyone in the world will own one of our pieces of jewelry and we're gonna have to come up with something new. So I think, you know, Patricia's brilliant at coming up with new ideas and we have customers that come through all the time that just throughout there, in fact, our marketing director was just, she's just throughout there for the first time ever apparel. And I was like, what? But I think we're open to anything. We're constantly exploring. We're working with ways to collaborate with other Detroit companies that are really like minded. Cause I think the more we share, the better we are. So to answer your question, yes, I hope that, you know, we, Rebel Nell is a brand going forward and not just associated with graffiti jewelry, but that we've grown beyond that. I have, anyone else? I have one kind of closing question for both of you. Should we do that, Susanna? Okay. So my question is, what is the most important thing you've learned from Patricia and what is the most important thing you've learned from Amy during this, what is it, four years now? Yeah. For me, this is easy. Patricia is amazing. I just was talking to her about this the other day, how she handles stress has been one of the most inspiring moments for me. And I've watched her over these four years and she's dealt with such stress beyond most of our comprehension. And she just handles with such grace and dignity and calmness where I fly off the handle and I'm getting better at it because of her. And that is something I'm beyond grateful for her being in my life to present me with that. You don't see me flying off the handle. I fly off the handle all the time. And what I take away, what I learn a lot from Amy, what I get from her strength, she does a lot, she manages a lot, she's even taken on a task and I told her already before she did it. And I love, I love holding so much I do. What I said, I have two children. They're 17 and 18 and I'm like, no, don't do it. Don't do it, don't do it. And she did it. So I love them, but she did it. And she took on another task. So she's wearing all different hats, all types of hats and she's running all over the place and there's times when I can see that she's just had it. There's times where she come in and she has, she comes in on a break from her job and she comes in and just kind of see where we're up to, give us hugs and just tell us she loves us. And she's like, how are you? She's, I'm okay, I'm okay. And I'm like, yeah, okay. I can see that she has a lot, she has a lot that she has gone on, you know. And I just really, really, I take that from her. I commend you for all the work that you do. You are just amazing. If I can text you and say, hey, well, we need this or there's something going on over here and you're like, okay, you know, it's so, you know, I always think sometimes she's gonna respond or handle it a certain way and she's always so pleasant. So just this great, great strength to be learned and take it from you, Amy. I love you. Love you too. Thank you both for coming. I will have a, create a little Rebel Nell booth just for you, Patricia, when you moved to New York here, whoever you are. Yes, please, thank you. But you can get Rebel Nell Jewelry at Cooper Hewitt Shop and you can also buy it online directly from Rebel Nell. So, please do. And the shop's open till 8.30 this evening, so. Good luck. Oh. If anyone wants to see the graffiti, we'll have some pieces up here just so you can get a feel for it. Great, thank you.