 So, middle sex time, it's five o'clock. Peter Hood time, it's five o'clock. I'd say we're good to go. Welcome, everybody. Welcome, guests. Which I ask you to introduce yourselves every week, but if they're people on Zoom, they're not gonna know who you are. So, would you introduce yourselves, please? Yep, thank you. And Anne Gilbert on the Zoom. Anne Gilbert, yeah. I'm the Director of Central Vermont New Directions Coalition, the Substance Use Prevention Coalition in Serban Washington County with funding from the Vermont Department of Health. And my colleague, Sultana Khan is joining us tonight too. She's Sultana's working with Mosaic Vermont. Okay, we'll be with you in about one minute. Okay. So, we need to approve our agenda for tonight. Are there any amendments to the agenda? Okay, and we need to approve the minutes of the April 4th regular select board meeting. Is there a motion? I move that we accept the minutes of the April 4th. I'll second. Okay, it's been moved and seconded all those in favor of approving the minutes of April 4th. Please say aye. Raise your hand. Aye. If I was on Zoom saying yep, yep. Yeah, that's fine. Any opposed? Okay, we've approved our minutes. Thank you. So, the first item on our agenda is considering a Municipal Cannabis Control Commission, Anne Gilbert of New Directions, possibly to attend. She is attending. Action possible. Wait, can I, I'm sorry. Yep. What is the second piece of the 505, reviewing and approving the agenda for April 18th? Is that something that we do now? That's our new practice, yes. But did we do that? I don't think we did. I think we just approved the minutes of April 4th. I said there were no amendments to the agenda. So I presume that was approval. So that means we don't have to approve it. You should have a motion to approve it. You should say, does everybody okay with what's on the agenda? Okay. All right. I move that we approve the agenda for April 18th, 2023. And I second it. Okay, all in favor of approving the agenda for tonight's meeting. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Dear, I just want to, before we get into the cannabis control thing, I have printed out a leaflet from the Sting Vermont about cannabis control commissions. And I've highlighted tasks, like those little blue tags or green tags there, speak to municipal, municipal, municipal powers of the cannabis control commission if you want to refer to something during while Anne is talking. Okay, thank you. So with that, Anne, I guess you're on to tell us about cannabis control commissions. Okay. So to give you a little bit of information, I have spoken to the Middlesex Planning Commission on a couple of occasions and shared some documents with Sandy Levine and others. And so I'm not sure exactly how or what information has already been passed on to you. I just didn't want to be redundant. But I guess what I'll explain is there's a Cannabis Control Board, which is the state entity, which is making all the decisions about retail cannabis. And since Middlesex has already voted to opt in for retail cannabis, it's good for you to know that there is an opportunity for there to be more local control by creating a Cannabis Control Commission, a CCC, which is different than the Cannabis Control Board, the CCB, which is the state and the Vermont state entity. So for local control, it would mean that there would be a group, which is often the select board, but also made up of other members as well, maybe people from public health or law enforcement or people who work in Middlesex, even though they might live somewhere else because of commerce, who would approve the licenses, much like you do for alcohol and tobacco already. Now, when I originally started talking to the Planning Commission about this, there were some very concerning facts about how applicants were going to apply and how they would be approved. And so I thought it was really important for there to be information for Middlesex to have a local, more local control. As now we've had retail cannabis under our belts for a number of months now, I think there's been some changes so that maybe it's not as much urgency because I don't think there's as much local control as we originally thought. What it really comes down to is a town really envisioning what you want to see and maybe even imagining what you do not want to see. And so being able to put ordinances in place that involve signs, how big are the signs? Is it neon? What would be allowed or not? And also public nuisances. Some of the things that other towns and other states have encountered in terms of nuisances with retail cannabis operations might be or grow facilities would be the light trespass, might be the odor and or dust. So but all of these things cannot be specific to just cannabis. They would have to be across the board for all substances. So it would have to pertain to everything. You can't single out just cannabis for some of these ordinances. So right now, if someone wants to apply to have a retail cannabis app store, it will go, they'll have to get a permit or they'll have to follow all the permitting processes through your town and then get a license through the state. If you have a local cannabis control commission, then you would issue that local license. One of the concerns months ago was that a town might not even know that someone had applied and that the state had issued a license. And then you would find out. But now it looks like an applicant will have to follow all the zoning, development review board, whatever it is through the town. And so you will know. So then it will be either if you have this cannabis control commission, your own local commission, you will essentially be rubber stamping that application. One other thing is if the state is the one that grants this application for a license, and if there's any kind of problem that violates the zoning or the signage or the nuisances, having a local control cannabis commission would allow you to take care of that, work with them, maybe revoke that license if needed, as opposed to waiting for the state entity and their team to investigate it and then revoke the license at the state level. So there are some towns that even though they haven't opted in, they're already putting together their own local cannabis control commission, like Stowe, for instance. And other towns that have already opted in are having this as well just as another place to be able to have better communication, be able to review those applications the way you do with alcohol. Are there any questions about that or thoughts about whether you would want to do that or not want to do that for certain reasons? So the way I see this is that it would be not the same as, but similar to the way we control alcohol sales. In other words, the state does all of behind the scenes part the investigating everything, they approve it, then we have to approve it before they can open up in middle sex. If you have a local control commission and you notify the cannabis control board that you do have your own commission, then yes. Yes. And for myself, I think that's a good thing. I mean, I think it's good for the board to know whether it's alcohol or cannabis or whatever it is to know what's going on in town. And to have it be another step beyond the planning and zoning process, I think is good. We do not routinely get involved in planning and zoning issues unless there's a problem. So it makes sense to me that we would want to do this, but I don't know how other board members feel. Yeah, Liz. Can I ask Anna a question? Yes. Hi, Ann. So let's say Red Hen, for example, which already has a building and they're an established business, decides they want to sell cannabis brownies. Is that doesn't, that wouldn't, and if we don't have this commission control, the CCC, they don't need to go to our development. They don't need to go to our zoning for that. Or do they? Because they're selling cannabis. Like, is that something that we, somewhere in the town, we would hear that a company that already exists, like Roots, for example, or Red Hen, or the liquor, that new alcohol store might sell something, but they're already established? So my understanding is then if they would just apply through the state. And so it's sort of like what you were just talking about. It's good to know what's happening in your town and what that looks like and who's involved ahead of time. Right, so but if we didn't have that CCC, we wouldn't know that Red Hen started selling products with marijuana in it, because they wouldn't go through any other process, because they're not building anything. They're not a new business. Right, so what would that permitting process, yeah, what would they have to do? No, I don't know. No, there would be no. There would be nothing that we would know. What I think we're saying is we don't believe there would be any town permitting process, because they're already a permitted business. They would get their state cannabis license, and they'd be ready to go if they didn't need a town license. So we have to. And that's a reason to have the Cannabis Control Commission so that they have to apply to us. And guess what? If there's a problem, it gives us the ability to revoke that license, which I think has some value. And then can I ask another question? Yeah. And then, Ann, if you could go back to that statement about signage, for example, or because I mean, I will say that I've read articles that places like California that have big marijuana fields, that it's really challenging for neighbors because of the smell, right? And that, to me, is a whole separate issue. But you're saying that we would have to say that about a farm that has manure spreading, that they'd have to control the smell, because we can't be, we can't say just cannabis. So what are towns doing about that piece? I mean, I would just say we have very little, if any, control over agriculture, as we know. So I presume the same would apply to cannabis. I mean, that would be the State Agriculture Commissioner, or I don't know who. But towns, we have no control over. Unless it's a nuisance, like she's saying. You make a nuisance. Yeah, but even if it is a nuisance, like the manure is a perfect example. Right. I do think, I think this has come up, and I don't have all the information on that of how manure would be treated differently. But I will say that there has been a grow in processing facility in another town in southern Vermont where the smell was so strong. And unfortunately, there was a recovery center that had opened up like almost next door. So people who are really struggling and really trying to avoid all substances were suddenly exposed to this. And luckily it was, they were able to just have a, I don't know, kind of a good neighbor conversation about it. And the facility agreed to only process or dry at certain times in order to cut back on the nuisance that it was causing. And so I think it is about relationships, being able to know who has these businesses as it would be with any other product as well, I guess. But I don't know specifically about how you would control the smell of manure or how this does or does not relate to that. Victor. A couple of things. We already have that right up here. I mean, you can smell that stuff if you're in that area. You can. Yeah. Yeah, we were paving there last year, and you could smell it over the paving. Oh, you know, I have smelled it. And I was like, who's out in the woods smoking pot? And I'm like, it's so weird. That's exactly what it is. I think the light, the grow light has been a problem also from some facilities and the energy use in the water. Sultana, did you want to say something? Yeah, I was just going to say there is one way that I've heard getting around this, which is regulations around particular compounds so that you're addressing some of the chemical that creates the odor as opposed to addressing a broad odor regulation. So there is like three or five weeks during the grow season that during the flowering time, it's particularly pungent. And there's a particular chemical that creates that smell. And so the regulation of that chemical is sometimes used. And I'm going to throw in the chat a link to an article that talks about this from the National Institute of Health. So it does seem like this is a thing that people are concerned about and odor control. And they're looking for solutions to it. But it doesn't sound like anybody has any particularly good solutions to it. But that is one of the things that's mentioned in the article. OK, one more question. I'm sorry. Yes, ma'am. But this CCC, we don't have to have a CCC in order to go through any kind of changes or regulations that we'd want around nuisance or signage and stuff like that. Those are two separate things. So what we're really talking about tonight is the CCC, but it doesn't really affect what you were talking about in terms of just because we have a CCC doesn't, that's not going to give us any leverage necessarily to those changes. We have to do other things on a planning level, like a town planning level. OK, gotcha. All right, so OK. Yes. And a retail cannabis shop has a lot of specific guidelines they have to follow. So I don't think Red Hen can just start selling cannabis right now, even though they have an established business. Now they have to get a state license. And do a bunch of other things. And follow the rule, whatever the rules are. They probably are. It seems to me that the development of this commission doesn't really give us a whole lot of authority really. It's more about, to me, at least what I'm understanding. The state's got laws around this. That's essentially what folks are bound to. And we can't be more restrictive than what those state guidelines are. It really just gives us the opportunity to know what's happening within the town as far as who's involved with cannabis. In any way, shape, or form that they'd have to get a permit for. And potentially to have some controlled power of their issues, which we would have with by revoking somebody's liquor license, for instance. Not that I anticipate we would have any problems. But I mean, our role is going to be relatively minimal. It's more informational than anything else, the way I see this. Yes, Victor? I like the way you say it, Howard. I think, for my own, I think that when Ann said that you could get people that work here or something to be on the board, I don't think that's good. I think it should be the select board. It may be just the select board itself for now. I don't think we ought to, I don't think we ought to. I agree. That's what I'm thinking. I don't think we need to create another board of commission. As much as possible, I'm thinking we will. And I realize it isn't the same thing, but we want to treat this the same way we treat liquor licenses, which we don't have a liquor commission, but the select board is essentially the liquor commission. But you signed it. We approve the permits. So we would have to figure out if we have the CCC, if that's a separate meeting from our select board meeting, if we adjourn the select board meeting can have a CCC. Well, we don't know. I mean, this is going to be a learning process, I think, for us, but it's going to be a learning process across the state, too. Yeah. And one other thing I just want to make sure that you're aware of it. It's really trying to think ahead of what this could would look like in your town of Middlesex in terms of more growth of retail cannabis establishments. And if you do have some of these zoning ordinances in place, then you can fall back on those. They will have to be followed. But if they're not in place and a retailer opens and then they're not following what you know, then you feel like you have problems, they've already been grandfathered in so that you would not be able to revoke that license because they were not established when there were certain guidelines that they had to get a permit for following. So I guess just thinking about whether just having the commission, the select board be the commission right now is enough, or if you want to be thinking more about, OK, what do we want to think about signage or nuisances involved in this? So I just had a quick question. For those towns that have approved the commissions, did they? There's boilerplate language on the board's website. Did folks pretty much adopt that language? Were certain towns, were there issues coming up in certain towns where they made significant changes to that language? Not that I know of where they were responding to problems, but they did it ahead of time. And generally? More generally, yeah. Now there's already, in terms of zoning, there's already the Cannabis Control Board has dictated that it cannot be within 500 feet of a school, for instance, but that is only for a retail cannabis. You can't control any of the other operations, like agricultural ones or a medical cannabis facility. This is only for a retail store. And then say we do have the commission and the license is approved and a situation did arise, would if we revoked the license at the town level, would then, and what is the recourse for the applicant? Well, it could be, how do you solve the problem of whatever it is, you know? Is there, I'm just wondering if they have the license at the state level, the state doesn't do anything. Yeah, at the town level, what happens then? Yeah, that is a good question. You know, I just think that my understanding is that if you have a local control, your Cannabis Control Commission, that you're the ones who can revoke that license. But if you felt like it should be revoked and the state, but they had already gotten it through the state, it might be a much lengthier process for them to investigate it and work their team to address that issue. I think the answer potentially would be that their recourse would be through the courts. They could appeal our decision through the courts. But just like any other decision we make. Wait, I'm confused. Ann, are you saying that we would be giving, they wouldn't have to go through the state if we had a commission, they would go directly through us? No, no, they still have to. They have to have an approval from the state and then they come to us just like with a liquor. But I didn't hear her say that in the beginning. Go ahead, Ann. No, I think it would come to you first and then they would get it from the state. But if you do not, but if you don't have your commission, then it goes directly to the state. Sarah has a question. That seems backwards to me. Yeah, Sarah. I think the way it works with liquor licenses is it'll pop up and then the state says, does the local authority approve this? And if the local authority approves this, then it goes to the next level. Then the state signs off on it. So if you stop, if it says the local authority does not approve it, then that ends it right there. There's not going to be any retail. If you say yes, then it goes to the state and then the state can do it over. So it's the same process. Yeah, same process. And we don't have to create an application. That is something. You are theoretically the, no, you're theoretically the board of liquor control and you're also the board of health. And where do they get that application? Not on our website. No, they would probably go through the process. There's probably something that's going to have to come. And that first comes to us and we approve it. Then it goes to the state, gotcha. But that does sound a little bit more, there's more teeth there than what I'm hearing from Ann. So, what I'm hearing from Ann is more of a rubber stamping situation now. No, I don't think so. I mean, if we have reason to deny the license and we deny it, they're done. Can't we stop any action we want if it's detrimental to the public? You can't go above the law. No, I'm not asking you to go above the law. It can't be more restrictive than the state law. But my understanding based on what I read earlier today was just what Sarah had said. It's essentially, my vision of this would be that they would go through, apply to the state. The state informs the commission and checks with them for their approval and then it would follow through the rest of the process at the state for them to grant the final. They initiate it through the state. They initiate it through the state. It comes to us and then it goes back to the state for final giving the license. Right. The bottom line is... I did say rubber stamping in that if they've already followed all the whole permitting process that they have everything in place as far as it's in line with whatever ordinance, whatever your zoning is, then you're essentially rubber stamping. And if they've just completed that process and it passes all the permitting. Except for the fact that there's nothing in the planning. The planning process dictates what they have to do to open a business in the town of Middlesex, what they have to do to develop the building where they're gonna do it, all that kind of stuff. But it does not have anything to do with their ability to sell cannabis. The planning process has nothing to do with that. So we're the ones, just like we do with liquor, we're the ones who say, yes, you can have a class two liquor license or no, you can't. And it's not a rubber stamp, it's our decision. I think it's where the confusion is coming in. Okay. That makes sense, I hope. Yeah. So the bottom line is folks, I mean, we can table this, we can think about it, we can decide tonight that we're gonna go ahead. I think we have the information we need unless anybody has any other questions. But I think, I just wanna clarify, I believe that when they go through the zoning process because we were a town that voted to allow for certain, like the application will say that it's a cannabis. They're not just gonna say, I wanna build a new building. No, no, no, no, no, no. I wanna build a retail store to sell cannabis. Right, and then the planning, it's gonna say, yes, it's allowed. Yes, yeah. And then they're gonna come to us. So what's your pleasure? I don't have any more questions. Board members. I'm fine with establishing a Cannabis Control Commission right now. What about the language list, what did you, did you wanna adopt that? I mean, I- The board suggested. Good. Resolution. I typed up a, I used a sample cannabis control resolution dated today with your names on it. If you wanted to read it, if you wanted to pass it. Thank you. Read it out loud, Randy. Whereas Title VII, Chapter 33 of Vermont State Statues was amended in 2020 to provide for safe, equitable and effective regulation of adult use cannabis. And whereas VII VSA 863B provides that a municipality that hosts any cannabis establishment may choose to establish a Cannabis Control Commission. And whereas a local control commission may issue and administer local control license for cannabis establishment within the municipality. And whereas the commission may condition the issuance of a local control license upon compliance with any bylaw adopted pursuant to 24 VSA 4414 or ordinance regulating signs or public nuisances adopted pursuant to 24 VSA 2291. And whereas the local control commission may suspend or revoke a local control license for a violation of any condition placed upon the license pursuant to VII VSA 863B. And whereas prior to issuing a Cannabis Establishment License the State Cannabis Control Board must ensure that an applicant has obtained a local control license if a municipality has established a local control commission. Now therefore be it resolved that the Middlesex Select Board has voted affirmly to form a local Cannabis Control Commission effective as of the date of this resolution, April 18th, 2023. Be it further resolved that the local commission will be comprised of the Select Board. Be it further resolved that the local Cannabis Control Commission of Middlesex will, A, review information provided by the State Cannabis Control Board, B, review information provided by applicants for the approval or denial of a local control license. C, will communicate approval, denial or conditions placed on the local control license to licensees and to the State Cannabis Control Board. And D, comply with the provisions of VII VSA 863 and Cannabis Control Board rule 2.14. So moved. So moved. Liz. I'll second it. Okay, moved by Victor, seconded by Liz. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? I think we've done it. Thank you. Thank you for your help and your information. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Thanks Sarah for preparing that. Yes, thank you. Joint meeting with the Middlesex Volunteer Fire Department consideration of approval of the memorandum of understanding for the capital fire mutual aid action likely. And we do have in our packet a report. Gentlemen. So I thought Joe was going to be on, but. So he sent the information you guys were looking for. As far as I know, that's, does that, does that, do the information he sent you answer your questions? I'm ready to adopt this memorandum. I'll make the motion that we accept. Are we, are we going to talk about this right now? Yes. Yeah. So he's making a motion to accept it. Okay. And I'll second it. Victor moved and Liz seconded that we accept the memorandum. I'm understanding. I'm understanding. Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion. Please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. It's unanimous. We've approved it. Done. Okay. Now for the monthly report. Wait, before we go on, can you please doesn't need somebody to sign on behalf of the board because it's by party by party. I assume one of the parties is the town double size, right? And the other party is. Yeah. So we need to do that. I would include Peter Hood in the motion. Okay. So this is what I'm looking for. So I guess I just signed this under party one. Sarah says party by name title, party by name title. Yeah. Okay. So for the monthly report we're up to 24 calls. We had seven calls and it's the same as we had last month, zero mutual aid out or mutual aid in max number was six. Min number was two for an hour to 3.14 engine out. Engine one was out two times engine six, zero tanker, one out three times rescue at one time and truck 14, not out. So the calls, the first couple of calls we were canceled before we could get out actually the second one, the accident was actually in Montpelier. We got toned first and then they realized, oh, it was exit eight, not exit nine. We had a propane odor and a water heater that was leaking. So it was put out of service. There was a call for a lift assist, someone that wasn't hurt on center road. Mead road had a large fire in the backyard. They did have a burn permit. There was a firearm activation on route two at the well over temporary use facility. Water heater caught on fire, but it was out by the time we got over there. And then there was a grass fire on rich road. Our training was ladder work, repairs. I did meet with borns to get an estimate. They're the first ones that I lined up. The estimate is $12,870.33 for complete removal and replacement of essentially the boiler. The rest of the system would operate. And that's not the only one. And if we get the other grants to do further studies and whatnot, we'll certainly include those as well. But the big thing is, we've got quite an investment in that heating system aside from the boiler for all the tubing in. And so that's what we're looking at. Is the domestic hot water provided down there? Pardon? How's the domestic hot water provided? Through that same system. It's as a separate indirect tank off from the boiler. Now, the way the one works now, it's kind of like an instantaneous heater. It's got a very small tank. So when a sink calls for hot water or one of the two zones calls for hot water, it turns on. So that would be the same type thing. There isn't a separate hot water heater tank and a separate, basically it's just one boiler. So if you had baseboard heat, you're probably getting the same kind of thing. Here, right now? It is, according to the technician last month, it is limping along to get us through the heating season. His recommendation is to not put any more money into it. And just from my uneducated eye, I can see there's a copper pipe that is probably gonna pop here. Could be today, could be two months from now. But you can see some corrosion right on a copper pipe. It's one of the main feeding pipes to it. So their recommendation is to replace it. And so that's, we're trying to limp it along to the heating system, get more estimates on replacing it. But the plan is to, well, it's not a plan. We have to replace it before heating season starts up. Randy, did you get the sense that in that meeting today that once we can basically get our name in to have the assessments done, that I almost feel like we're kind of doing an assessment already with this place and that we would prioritize the fire department as like our first request? Yeah, so it sounds like we can put in request for multiple buildings and essentially, they would package them, but the request is for each building by itself, but they would package it under that. Entire application. For the assessment. Yes. Okay. Did we have to prioritize it though? Did we have to say, we want, if you can only do one, we want you to do this. I didn't get that sense. I don't believe so. I think we can put them both in at the same time. They would be separate requests or applications for each building. Yeah. I'm sure we include the townshed too. Yeah. Yeah. So I think to answer where I think you're going with that, it could happen simultaneously. Yeah. Okay. Yes. And that is, if they don't have the application out quite yet, but it sounds like it's imminent. I mean, because they, and which means that, and it's free, like we don't need to pay for this, but we need to actually get in the queue, essentially. And then they arrange for a service, someone to come out and assess the buildings for the energy efficiencies and heating system replacements. That's a part of this. Merp. Can you reiterate code, babe? Yeah. The Merp people. Go. The municipal energy resilience program. That's through the state that is the $500,000 grant that in order for us to apply for that grant, we have to do this. We have to first get into the queue to get the buildings assessed that we may want to do work on or use this grant to fund. And it sounded like today as well that you could fund multiple buildings so that, you know, if we couldn't spend all of the 500,000 on the town hall, we could also include this. One of the barriers is going to be though, potentially that that money is not available before heating season that was told today, you know, that they're working really hard to try to get that application out before heating system. So I would, you know, hopefully this assessment, they might be able to, because, you know, I would want to get a second opinion that, you know, if we only had to put in a, you know, a few thousand dollars to repair in order to replace a whole system for free under a grant, I'd rather do that than spend money on a boiler that isn't in our town plan for energy purposes. Is there any resale value would boards be willing to buy back if we were to replace within a certain time? I did not ask that. I mean, if they installed a new system, they would buy it back. I didn't ask that. Or is there any resale value at all that the town might be able to recoup? So typically it becomes a warranty and liability issue. And in most instances, those vendors will not entertain that idea. We could probably sell it. Right. And a private party could, I mean, I presume what, I don't know how many BTUs it is, but chances are it would service a large house. So, you know, an individual family could buy it and hire a plumber to install it. And then if we say something else happens, though, as I can see it though, if we paid to service it and then something else were to happen and we had to service it again, you could get quickly to half of that without, and then be in heating system and then everybody's busy and then. Right, no, I know. I think there's a, there's definitely a concern that we are going to just, now the other option would be that we look at, we still get that assessment and we see what it is to, but I don't, it's not retroactive in terms of like, oh, we can pay for it and then have to rent and pay for it afterwards. But there are other people having this conversation and it sounded like it's not like, I don't want to just say, oh, okay, this is just not going to be time, let's just get a new boiler today. Did anybody, did anybody actually ask that question? They did. They did, I didn't catch it. And they said the question was, will this grant be available for the 2023 heating system? I heard that, but I was actually referring to the question about. Oh, reimbursing. If there were recommendations underneath the assessment and we move forward with some of those recommendations using town funds, whether or not they could be reimbursed through the grant after the fact because you're following the recommendations of the assessment. Yeah. I think that'd be a good question to ask. And then Jeff, how many other estimates are you looking to get? I'm definitely going to get one from Radiantech to Radiant Floor as their specialty. So see what they're due. And then I haven't thought of it. I don't know of any others right now. The borons was because that's who we get our, that's who services it. Yeah. And we get our heating fuel from and Radiantech because I know what they do. I haven't researched any other companies yet, but I want to get at least a couple more. Okay. I've got the name that was given to me yesterday. Okay. The mechanical is just out of Waterbury, very reputable business. They, I'm sure they're busy, but I'd be happy to if it helps you make a connection there. Yeah, if you could give Sarah and she'll send it to me or. Sure. That probably be that way it's. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the other, the other long fault that the estimate for this was, it's good for 30 days on the form that they gave us. I'm sure if we ended up going that route, then we went over the 30 days, but, but trying to line somebody up is going to be, you know, if we wait until August, we're going to be screwed. I think we'll be down there. Lucky's is a middle sex heating, plumbing and heating to Lucky's. Yeah. Okay. I'll provide Sarah. I don't know his first name, but we used him Lucky's. Lucky Boardman is the owner of that business. Yeah. Really nice guy. I can, I'll provide Sarah with a couple of names that, that we've interacted with. One other question, Jeff, what's the warranty on the new boiler? Do we know? I don't know if that was on the, on the form. I can look at it and let you know on that. I hadn't, right now. My understanding is, and maybe you know already, but my understanding is they used to warranty them for 20 or 30 years. Now they warranty them for like five years or 10 years or. If you could get something that much. A relatively short period. I know. The tech said that the life expectancy of that boiler is 10 to 15, the one that's going is 10 to 15 years. We're in that window. Right. So. But I'll find out on the. Okay. Thank you. Still waiting to hear from Zoll on the AED. I emailed them again to ship it. We're all set up, but I don't know if they're having supply chain issues or what. Have not heard back from Lake region fire apparatus yet. Now a something all near and dear to our hearts recruitment. You may have seen ads on TV, starting this, I think this weekend I was away last week about a statewide open house thing. So we're going to talk about that at the meeting tonight and probably go forward with that. Just I haven't been able to research it yet, but there's a website and there are a bunch of, I recognize some of the departments that are have already that are in the ad. So we're going to be looking at doing that. The open houses next month, like it's either the 13th. Okay. Yeah. We're going to look at trying to do that. Certainly can't hurt. Right. So, and their website has a whole bunch of stuff. Like I just didn't get a chance to deep dive into it yesterday. As far as the fast cloud, we've had a total of 10 reports or it should be a total of 12, 10 medical and two in conjunction with the fire department. Thank you. Any questions, anyone? Yes. I'm Bill Huntsman from Pottenhamville. Yes, Bill. And I have a concern about the fire department. And I'm not going to join middle sex. I did 40 years in Montpelier. I had a chimney fire. It was told three times in middle sex and nobody showed up. When was this? March 5th. I guess that's important. And Wister was told three times and a half hour after that, Wister showed up, three guys did. My question is, why wasn't Montpelier toned down? After three times in middle sex? I don't know what the protocol is. So I was there. So the call, your EMS call came in first. Yeah. In Montpelier ambulance called in. Their other ambulance was out on another call. So they called in the chimney fire to Capital West. Capital West toned out middle sex only. They should have toned out middle sex and Montpelier. The likelihood of Montpelier having somebody with both amulets is out or slim to none. You're ready, because I already talked with them. Well, my experience is when they've got both amulets is out, they don't have much of personnel in-house. So my house burns. I'm just saying, that's on Montpelier. We did have, I wasn't able to respond to that, so I would have been responding from the schoolhouse side. The engine one did respond fairly quickly from when Capital West toned out, but from the station down here, over to Putnamville, even with red lights on, takes a while. The in-route, they called for Worcester and one of the Worcester people showed up. And my, after talking to who responded, they went in, the smoke has already stopped coming out of the chimney, and they went through top to bottom with the tick, looking for it, and nothing was found. So. It was burning. By the time. Because when they loaded me in the ambulance, it was burning. I can tell you right now it was burning. We just need to direct the conversation. If you could direct the conversation to me, rather than between the two of you. Yeah, thank you. I mean, we're old-scale people. Old-scale people. Oh, I get it. But I just concerned that, you know, I mean, I live in Putnamville. Somebody else must live that far out and stuff like that. I just can't believe that, you know, it took that long. It's the middle of a workday. Oh, I realize that. And Worcester has about as many people in town during the day as we do. Montpelier, like I said, was strapped. Their next call had they been toned out and I do not know why Capital West didn't tone Montpelier because that's, a chimney fire is considered a structure fire and with structure fires, Montpelier is an automatic tone out. It's supposed to be. Why that didn't happen, I do not know. The follow-on, if Montpelier or Polly would have called Berry City, is their next route instead of Berlin or Waterbury. So you would have been looking at coming from Berry City with an engine. So what's happening with Waterbury coming on their side of Middlesex and Montpelier coming on, like Putnamville side of Middlesex, it wouldn't have. Montpelier, anything talked about that because I've talked to both stations and they're all in for it. I don't know what it's, what's Middlesex doing or having to do with it or. Well, we've been told, and correct me, Jeff, if I'm wrong, but that if it's this side of town, they will potentially tone out Waterbury. If it's on the other side of town, your side of town, they would potentially tone out Montpelier. My opinion gets toned to everything in Middlesex. Waterbury is basically from water. We can have Waterbury toned out wherever we want. We can have any department toned out wherever we want. Peter, would you tell us what toned out means? So that's when a station is called. So you get a tone over the radio or it says that you're getting alerted to respond to a call. When the dispatch center says, we need you guys, this is, that's a tone out. Because we have a pager and it gets a tone out. And then if you're called off, what is that called? They'll send, it's a cancellation tone. They send the same tone. Each department has a unique tone. Some people listen to the pagers and radios all the time and they know which tone is which. But ours, after the tone goes off, it says whatever department you have whatever the call is. And so then that gets the ball rolling of response. In addition to that, we have, as the fire progresses, we have increased numbers of alarms, which would, by telling Capital West the dispatch that we have an increased number of alarms, they will go to what's called a run sheet that has down on what pieces of equipment from where should be called. So we don't have to say, oh, I want Waterbury and two tankers. I want more town and engine and tanker and people. That run card, by us saying this, they go to that run card and they tone out the other towns, they call out the other towns to respond with the things that we want. It reduces radio traffic and it makes it a much faster process than one of us calling, hey, we want this, this, this, and this, which is tying up the radio for that long. And then they've gotta go and tie up the radio more for getting those people out. So the way it's supposed to, like I said, the way it's supposed to be set up, my period should have been toned out. Why? I don't know. Waterbury's not an automatic tone. We request them whenever we need them. Our policy is to get people moving earlier rather than later in case we'd much rather turn them back. It's easier to turn them back than it is to get them out. So that's why when they left here with engine one, they toned out Worcester, even before they got their way to find out what was going on. Randy. Curious about, well, my understanding based on what I've heard is that you guys got called out, started the process and it sounds like you were called off at some point because other folks, sounds like from Worcester were on site and said that it was contained or whatever and nothing was on fire. Is that my understanding off base there? No, I believe we went to the scene. Okay. Yeah, we responded with engine one and our engine had the thermal imaging camera to go inside. Okay, so you guys went in and did some of the scanning. Okay. I had a different impression based on what I was hearing. And there was another, I don't know, who did it, Worcester or Middlesex, opened up the wood stove and smoked the whole house up and then they don't have any fans. You guys have fans on the truck, don't you? Yep, we have an exhaust fan. Yep. The neighbors came in with fans to clean the house up. The only reason I say that is because I'm a fireman. You know, it was for 40 years and it just, things didn't work out right. And I'm just concerned that, you know, I'm not the only one that lives out in the country. You know, I realize volunteer, I'm not, I don't know. I've only been to two fires where I waited for the fire truck to get there because my players got hydrogen systems and I've never waited for trucks to get there. They beat you there. And that's my concern is, I mean, volunteer fire departments. I mean, I know people are working stuff like that, but my player was ready because I went down after. The only reason I wasn't there at my house because I fell out of my roof and broke my back. That's why I wasn't there. I was headed for the hospital when they were there. Well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I mean, the fire, the rural fire protection is a problem, especially during the day when people aren't available. There's no question about it. And everybody does the best they can do, but it isn't always perfect. I realize that, I realize that. But I will say my player was ready to roll because I've talked to Bobby, I've talked to the guy that was on duty and they never got toned down. Well, it was there. They wanted to go. They were sitting there waiting for a tone, but they won't go because they weren't called. They should have been. They should have been. And they're aiming on somebody's call to capital S. That's all I can say. As to why they weren't, I don't know. Why they didn't call capital S and say, hey, do you want us to go to jog their memory? I know they've gotten some new dispatchers to learning process. I don't know what else to say. Well, there's a fire truck on Craigslist that we're looking at buying. Can I ask you to say that? You're putting it in Putnamville. Okay guys, we need to move along. Thank you very much. I appreciate your input. Can I just ask a question? Does it make sense, Jeff, to ask why mutual, or do you think it was just an oversight that is very uncommon? Or does it make sense to investigate as to why it wasn't? I will ask them. It is an uncommon thing because we've had, I won't say numerous, but we've had other structure fires where we haven't had to make that call for Montpelier to come. So, I will certainly check with dispatch and find out what the snafu was. And perhaps maybe in writing. There are a couple of people just to wait and stop the minute that they are. Yeah, I've never heard. That it's something on the department's letterhead or something on those lines? No, is that not? I can do that. I was just going to email them. Yeah. Just in case something were to happen again. Right, just so we know that, yeah. That they would know that the town. Definitely. Thank you. Thanks, Jeff. Anything else for the fire department? We do have a couple of people on the Zoom and I'm sorry I can't read your names from here. Could you introduce yourselves please? There's Norman Cohen. Norman Cohen, are you? Yes. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you for having us. Bob was going to start off and he ducked out for a minute. But who are they here for? They're about to cut the end of resolution here. OK. Yeah, just tell me what you'll call. That'll be a few minutes. Here we go. Yes, it'll be OK. It's going to be a couple of minutes till we get to the resolution. Highway department, gentlemen. Yes. Yep. I handed out the updated numbers for the two quotes we have for paving of Shady Roe. I guess we have a $200,000 grant to cover a portion of this, obviously. Drenda's not here, but we do have enough money in our paving fund to take up the rest. So I guess we just need to figure out who we're going to want to have do it. Who are you? Do you have a recommendation? Pike came in less than Hutchins. And it's pretty close to the same tonnage and the same square footage, or square yardage, rather. Yeah, we actually get a little bit more right out of Pike. It looks like they're extending a slightly more. Just a little bit, not much, but 20 square yards. Can I ask a question? Yes. I know, and maybe some of it was just kind of throwing stuff out there because of the amount of money that it costs to do these kinds of things. But I know that there were discussions brought up about reverting this back to gravel. And I'm just wondering if folks here were over that conversation or not. Last question. It costs more money to maintain a gravel road than it does a paved road. That's usually the defense for that. But if the board would like to bring it up and vote on it, we'll do it either way. Yep. I think that would be a decision that would be bigger than something I would want to make the call for. How many years is it for paving? 15 is what we use in the CIP for a life cycle. And I know historically. I'm sorry. Just to reiterate, and I remember the discussion years ago, when we was either right after or right before, we repaved that upper part of Shady Rill for the first time. So that was a long time ago. But at that time, the concept was that we were going to pave all the way through. So we were going to have a paved route all the way through town. Well, that never happened. We put the squash to that. So the thing I struggle with is, OK, I understand why maybe it makes sense to have a paved road going to the school. But in terms of our other paved roads, unless it truly is, and I've never been able to, you always say, Victor, that it's cheaper to maintain a paved road than a gravel road. Your question, Matt? I just looking at the cost of gravel and knowing that we've deferred the maintenance for that for so long, I mean, if you add up over the course of the life of the asphalt and think about what you're going to put in there and then the man hours and wear and tear on the grader, I guess it probably wouldn't surprise me if it was equal to, if not more expensive. After you said that, I was kind of running some of the numbers through my head, just looking. We've looked at gravel costs and whatnot a lot lately. So it probably isn't that surprising to me. I think the town would be very upset if we turned it into dirt. Yeah. We do. I think there'd be a mutiny. I think for me, I posed the question because it was brought up. And I didn't feel like it was ever anywhere that we really took very far. And then we're sitting here and we're talking about awarding somebody a bid. So I just wanted to make sure that this group didn't feel like it warranted further conversation. I think for the time being, our policy has been to maintain the paved roads we have. And we haven't changed that. We've had discussion, but we haven't changed it. Yes, Sarah? Isn't Shady Grove Class II road? I'm sorry? Isn't it a Class II road? If you were going to take it from pavement to gravel, I think you'd have to change the classification of the road. Only if that is a class. I don't know. Where are they defined? That's on the AOT map. Oh, OK. It's downstairs on the map. I mean, it sounds like I haven't conversations. It's kind of a loop point because it sounds like the group is all in favor of maintaining it as a paved road. And again, sorry for the derailment, but I just. No, I think it's a question that's come up off and on over the years. Because our plan, or the plan, not our plan, but the plan to have a paved road through town never came to fruition. So how do we justify, how do we justify having some roads paved and other roads not paved? Good question. It's a legitimate question. Where the flaw comes in, in my opinion, is we don't address paved roads on a timely matter. We let them go too long. Right. And that's basically about the capital that needs to go into them. We'll wait for grants to be available. Correct. That's correct. Right. And we've done that historically because we can't afford it without the grant. We can't afford it to do it. Peter, I was sorry. I was just wondering, are there any other mitigating factors for Eric other than just the dollar value, like timing and? No, no. Now is the time to get on the schedule before it gets too late. This one says that the price is valid through 3723. You still think they'll come in lower? No, they know about it. They'll honor it. If we choose to schedule it or not. And then you're, sorry. I don't go ahead. And then you're looking to the board to decide between the two, or you're looking for permission for you to decide between the two? Either one. You need to make a call. So we need to make a motion. OK. We need to make a decision. I just want to point out, it looks like there are some differences between the two. They're not necessarily apples to apples. Like traffic control, is that something? I got an answer for that. I asked him about that. And he says, the reason it states like that, he says they should change it on there. They do provide traffic control, but it's not from them. It's from an outsource. Where Hutchins does their own personal traffic control. OK. But we don't have to provide additional traffic control. It's included in that price. Correct. I just have a question. I know Peter, you had been mentioning something about, and I just biked on it, but I didn't notice it, the center road, the new paving. Somebody said there's some cracks. There's some cracks. I have not heard back from Hutchins. I tried calling him about that. Those are something that we're going to have to just try to seal. But is that related to any kind of like the process? No. That relates to the clay that is feet underneath the ground. Because I know we talked about like you take the road off, and you grind it up, and you use it versus members versus the other thing. We would have to dig down like six feet and rebuild the road. That's the problem. I mean, it can only itself is what's compromised. OK. You can't build on clay and expect it not to move in the winter. You can't expect to get the same results like they do out here on Route 2 or whatever, because number one, you don't have a contract. Number two, you don't have any specifications. And number three, you don't have any inspection when they're putting it down. So you're kind of relying on them to be trustworthy. I like how they have to bid for 2021. And I don't think on these two contractors, and I don't think there's one that's less or more trustworthy than the other, I'd make the motion we'd go with pike industries. And you said, as far as timing, there's no significant timing difference between the two or anything like that. Not that I had gathered from talking to them. On a regular day, on a regular day, we'd struggle hard to find $5,000. When is it happening? I would like it to happen somewhere right after the 1st of July. That's awesome. So it has been moved. Is there a second? Brandy, second. So all in favor of accepting the contract with pike industries to repave that portion of Shady Real Road? Please say aye. Appreciate it. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Other road issues, specifically. Rated center road, French road, I shut off to buses today because it opened up quite badly. It is passable with cars, but anything heavier than that, nope. The buses will be not running next week, so we have some time for that to heal up. We're going to hit Porter Road tomorrow in McCullough and do some other grading spots. But other than that, we're in pretty good shape. Great. Yeah, we did. Today you'll probably hit it again. So I have a related, but a different question. Sure. The things I observe riding around town are the school buses going where maybe they shouldn't go, number one. But number two, the oil and propane trucks. I want the garbage trucks. Well, and the garbage trucks. Garbage trucks will stop if you call Tim Ryan. But is there any way, and probably I know the answer to this, but I'm asking the question, to encourage and or discourage these oil companies like, I know they're all scrambling around. I know they all don't have that. It would help. But they know when the roads are going to get muddy. Can't they fill up the tanks on those roads before they get muddy? It is an endless battle, and they say that they're essential, so they are exempt, but I do not believe they are. I think the only ones that are exempt are agricultural, from driving on our roads, even though they're posted. Well, I can tell you they believe they're exempt, because I've talked to them. I know they do. The issue is, if the issue is money, because some people get their propane oil, whatever, months to months, and they don't fill up their tank. So they budget it month to month. I understand, but if you're an oil company, can't you say? We'll trust you. Can't you send out a letter and say, mud season is coming. We need to fill your up tank up now, because we're not going to promise you we can come during May well. They won't hold, right, they're not going to go pre-deliver for some clientele. Some of these people are on basically cash on delivery type of deals where they've got to go out and physically call them when they see that the meter is down to 5% and they actually have the money. So we're putting people in a position where, and I have heard that they are completely exempt from that because of the service that they provide, and it's something to look into. But we're putting people in a position where all of a sudden they have no heat, they have no hot water because they run out. I get it. I get it. But I'm just saying, so the problem is, and we've all seen it, the road's OK for cars, light pickup trucks, whatever can drive over it, it's fine. And all of a sudden you see this great big 10-wheel propane truck coming up and they sink in about a foot and a half, and then it's over after that. And they somehow manage to rumble through. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they have to get towed. But it's a problem. Anyway, we have the buses shut off on South Bear Swamp as well. This one. Yeah, OK. Should have done that a day earlier. Exactly. They've done it last Thursday. East Hill? Yeah, East Hill was done today. Yeah. Hey, guys, this is Paul Cermanara. Can I just ask a quick question? Are we still actively working on mud season mitigating? It had been pretty successful and pretty popular here a few years back. Are we still doing that? Or have we put off efforts of trying to work towards some of these real habitual bad areas and not trying to mitigate those anymore? We have not done that last year. When I came on, there was no time to do that. I don't know what the plan is moving forward at this time and what was previously done prior to me. So I can only answer for last summer. Don't we have some mud season mitigation in our plans for next year? I believe we do. We use a lot of our gravel right now. And the other thing is, Paul, as you know, that question was asked to me by people on East Hill. Why don't we do that like you did around Bo? But I'm not saying not to do it. But when you do, you have to put all your forces in that one thing and then all the wrestler roads in the town go to heck. So just to be clear, we're talking about really the difference between road construction efforts and road maintenance efforts. I just want to make sure we weren't talking about just gravel and things like that. No, it's road repair. Sections of road rebuilding. Oh, and I appreciate that. I think, at least in my experience, the concern from the general public had been fire, EMS, medical response, and things of that nature. And obviously school bus safety and travel. So it just seems it's a little tough to swallow where myself and the board made such a big push to try and start actively working on. And I don't mean in just a random place. I mean the place that I could drive around today and know exactly where they are because they've been happening since before my tenor. We had great success doing it. And I do not disagree at all that it's a limited group of workers and equipment and time and resources. So I certainly understand we've got our no pun intended Rob, Rob, Peter to pay Paul type of thing. I understand that. But when I see pictures and I drive around town and see some of these things, I just feel like we need to still put at least a little bit of emphasis on our main arteries because seeing a school bus stuck or trying to help people out or even delivery trucks and stuff on our main roads just seems to me like we need to still put a little bit of emphasis there. Maybe not as much as we may have at one time, but some of it to know that because these places are not going to get any better. They'll continue to get worse. And I think we all know that. No, I agree with you, Paul. 100% and it's just a balancing act of how we do that. Well, not missing out on the rest of it. And I think that one of the issues is also there was when you did it and it was a good thing. I don't mean to negate anything, but you did have a newer excavator and our excavator is getting old. And I don't think there's up to replace that until 26. This year? No, it's this year. This year? It's in 24. It's getting tired. But I will say the places that he did are really in great shape. You can tell the difference when you're driving on. I agree 100%. It was worth it. So I just want to point out that conversations that I've been involved with or whatnot through this group have not steered away from the thought of doing those constructions projects as a whole, but maybe looking at doing them outside of our road crew and letting our crew focus on maintenance efforts and not necessarily deferring all of that. So it may be that we get to those less often because we've got a contract for those types of services and whatnot. But at least in my mind, through some of those conversations, that's where my mind set is, is to let the road crew focus on maintenance and not construction. And when we find construction recommendations from Eric and Victor that are put into the future budgets and whatnot, those are looked at as a separate item from what the road crew is necessarily going to implement. And when they did that, when Paul did that, he also put in a lot of drainage. They put in a lot of drainage, got rid of the water down, which by putting gravel on an existing road doesn't help that situation. It certainly, Paul, is a good idea. No, and again, I'm not trying to pick a battle here, guys. To me, it's more of a continuing effort and like I said, I completely appreciate the limited amount of resource. More than anybody here, I can appreciate it. So I would love to make sure that we are still trying to make at least small progress on those, on our main arteries, that every year are just complete quagmires. Because obviously, medical and fire response and school bus safety near and dear to our hearts. So just something I wanted to bring up and put a little light on so we can make some emphasis there in the future. Well, however you guys decide to divvy it up. Well, thank you, Paul. I mean, you're making an excellent point. And it may get us to thinking about it. And we may act on it a little quicker than we would have if you hadn't said anything. So we appreciate it. Mysteriously, it always seems to come up about the third week in April of every year, doesn't it? Yeah. I wonder why that is. Thank you, Paul. Thank you. So the other issue we have just quickly under Highway Department report is the Mead Road situation and issues. I did have another conversation with the town attorney. And Victor and I had a conversation the other day. We are going to have him draft a letter, which we will send to Zac French et al. Our plan is to re-gravel the traveled right of way, not the whole right of way, but the traveled right of way. Roadbed. Yes. And then to that this letter will say, you cannot park, leave equipment, block, or any way, impede, or alter that right of way, excuse me, traveled right of way without prior permission. And if you choose to go ahead and do that in the future, penalties will apply or whatever the magic word is. The attorney comes up with, but we are close to doing that. So I would hope that letter could go out in the next week or so. And I don't know when you gentlemen are planning to do that work sometime this summer. Yeah, I mean, we can do it, I would imagine, with the next month or so. Yeah. So we are trying to make progress on that. I know it seems like that forever we've got a lot on our plate as you hear when you attend these meetings. The other thing he did, and I believe I said this at the last meeting, but we do have legal recourse if we choose to take it and have to take it. Hopefully that will not be the case, but we'll see what happens. OK. Thank you. Thank you. So moving along, we have a request that the middle sex select board approve a declaration of inclusion. We all have a copy of that declaration in our packets. And I believe we have people here on the Zoom who would like to address us on that subject. That is correct. Thank you very much. I wanted to thank Sarah for getting us on the agenda. And thank you as well. My name is Bob Harnish. And I'm here with my colleague, Norm Cohen. Good evening. And I'm going to read some of my remarks just to be in the interest of being brief and not take up too much of your time. I think you indicated in your opening remarks that you have information in your packet, including a suggested declaration of inclusion. Great, great. Well, we're here regarding our statewide effort to have all towns and cities adopt a statement that says that they want their town to be a place where folks are unbiased and respectful of all people regardless of their religion, ethnicity, socioeconomic condition, or whatever. We call this a declaration of inclusion. And you have a copy. Most towns have used our suggested wording, but some towns have changed a few words or rewritten it substantially. If that's a desire by a town, then we're happy to work with you. So far, this initiative has been endorsed by 110 cities and towns, as well as a governor who has issued a proclamation of inclusion for the state of Vermont. But it's our intention to have every town adopt and consider a statement of this sort. So in addition, the Vermont League of Cities and Towns, the Vermont State Chamber of Commerce, the Social Equity Caucus of the House of Representatives, the Vermont Interfaith Action Alliance, and many other, many of the regional planning commissions have all become our allies in this effort. To go back to the beginning, in September of 2020, my cousin, the chair of the select board in Franklin, told me that his select board had adopted a declaration of inclusion, which had been introduced by one of the selectmen. And he got me a copy of it. And I was so impressed by the language of it and the intent that I presented it in our town of Pittsburgh, just north of Rotland. And then it was introduced and adopted in Brent in the next town north. And at that point, I decided it perhaps could go further. And I called a friend of Al Wakefield and Norm Cohen, who is with us tonight. And since we started this effort, the 2020 census has been concluded. And we have the report, which tells us that the population of Vermont is not only stagnant, barely grew 2% in 10 years. But it's also an aging population. And this is not a good combination for the long-term economic vitality of the state. And so we feel not only is this a moral issue, it's also an economic issue for the state of Vermont to make Vermont more welcoming to people. And to do that, we want people to feel comfortable here. We want people to feel respected and that they belong in their communities and they're part of their communities. So with that, let me just sum up by saying this is a grassroots effort to help communities be more welcoming and respectful of all current and future citizens. And this is the way we can make Vermont a desirable place to live. And also a magnet for business and people wanting to start new businesses. So with that, I will turn it over to Norm for a few remarks. Thank you, Bob. You said most everything that I could say, so I'm going to try to be brief, which is difficult for a retired lawyer. So please bear with me. Just a couple of things to more or less fill in. Governor Scott has been extremely supportive. If you have time to read the declaration of proclamation he issued in 2021, it is really far-reaching, emphatic, and meaningful. And he's also followed that up in the last two years. And we understand he will do the same this year and establish the second week in May as Inclusion Week. And that is when towns are encouraged to be public with their programs. And some have, some have done it more modestly. The standard bearer so far has been the town of Milton. The Bob mentioned the declaration and changing the language. And we certainly are receptive to that. Nothing is cast in concrete. But some people have wandered off the reservation a little bit. And so we have established some guidelines which are in the documents we prepared for government leadership and would suggest if you feel the necessity to do it, that you take a look at those. And it will mean help us both along. Bob has covered most of it. And very well, of course, would say that we now have a fourth person with us, a woman named Barbara Pulling, who joined us about a month and a half ago. And her presence has already felt. Barbara is a native of Monterey. Her roots go back to 1794. She works at the Regional Planning Commission. And she is the chair of the Rollin' Town Planning Commission. And we have served on that together for seven years. And we're privileged to have her. The only thing she's done is add youth to our effort. All three of us are over 80. We're one happy to be here and happy to be so involved and in such a meaningful effort. And I appreciate the time you've given us. So we're happy to answer any questions you may have. Yes, Richard. I would just like to go ahead and make the motion that we include the dec or that we move forward with the declaration in their website. There's two different categories, the quick and easy. And then there's the in-depth, perhaps if we move forward with the quick and easy and then put something on front page forum where we invite someone to volunteer. The project involves designating a committee. So rather than the select board create a new town committee, I think that that might be a way for us to do some recruitment of folks who might want to take it to the next level. So is this the one we have is the quick and easy one? That's the quick and easy. And if we do the quick and easy, what we're looking at is hanging a framed copy at the town clerk's office, put it in the town newsletter so that would be online, and then include it in the town's annual report. And then I say we go step four to see if Sarah or someone else wants to put something on front page forum and then see if someone else wants to take it further. I'd just like to note that the declaration is supported by the Chamber of Commerce, Vermont Inner Faith Action, League of Cities and Towns, Social Equity Caucus, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People in Vermont. It's supported by the governor. And I think what is the number of towns thus far that have approved or accepted, gentlemen? 110. 110 out of 251. So what? Did you say there was one town that didn't? No, I don't think so. I think one town went further. And Milton has, it sounds to me like there will be a, there will be some organizing at the state level, multiple towns. And if middle sex had someone interested in volunteering, they could participate in conversations about how perhaps middle sex could become more involved. But I don't think that at this stage that the select board would have to create a committee of town members. So I'd just like to make that motion and then see what other folks feel. And I would second that. Any further discussion? I just don't understand what the value of our town doing when it's at the state level already. I mean, I don't understand. And then if you read that, you sit here and you listen to this gentleman right here, and he's already got a conflict in here of what you're declaring. I don't know if I understand that. Well, he just said, he brought up. You know, it's like he just brought up that this woman, I believe it was a woman that joined. And I'm really, I don't really want to say anything because you end up a bad guy. But you know, you can't say anything because you're a bad guy if you say anything. But he just said that this woman was seventh generation in the rest of the stuff. So if I'm not, that's not welcoming out of status. It's like if you're, which has been in the state of Vermont for a long time, so I'm a native Vermont. I mean, that's not welcoming. That's not, you know, that's not meeting your own declaration. So I think it's better, I think it's just better if you let the governor do it and leave it at the governor or let it leave it at the state level. It doesn't mean you don't do it. It doesn't mean it's a personal thing. It's a personal declaration of your own values. I don't see forcing it or telling people that this is what the town is or it's going to do. It's beneficial. I just can't see that. Maybe I'm wrong. All I would say, Victor Rez, anything that can be done to encourage these values to me feels like a good thing. I mean, to me, it seems like common sense. There's certainly some people who don't necessarily feel this way. But for our town to go on record and say, yes, we support these values in this relatively limited way, I don't see how it can hurt. And if in fact it helps, that's a good thing. So that's my answer to that. I think it is kind of in line with the maturity of how towns people would feel. And I think that not only just in middle sex, but in our region. And I think that by us not participating, whether you mean it or not, it kind of sends a message. I mean, I understand that part of it. I understand that I think there's more politics in this declaration than there is anything else. You get right down to it, it's politics. It's what you believe in. Do we want our state and our community to be welcoming? Yes, I do. We do. And that's what this is saying. Yes, we do. But when you have conflict of terms in here, you're not all you're doing is causing turmoil. You said it yourself, Peter. And you said that it could open the town up to a, you don't think that anymore? This is a declaration. I don't know. It's not a law. Yes, it's not a law in place. I think for me, I agree to a point with Victor. It's not that I don't support any of this stuff. I mean, why does it have to be every time you turn around, you've got to sign a piece of paper and declare what you stand for? What happened to just general human decency and people being able to just be decent humans, instead of having to say, oh, I stand for this or I stand for that. For me, I think there comes a point in time where things like this almost drive some of the divisiveness that this country faces. That's what I'm trying to say. And it's not that people don't support this, but to hammer on your, the first thing you said is if you don't do this, everybody automatically jumps to okay, they're a racist or they're against folks with gender identity issues or whatever the case may be. And for me, there's a sense of how much is too much and at what point do we just be decent humans? I don't think this is too much, though, especially because we're being asked. I mean, it'd be one thing if someone on the committee had an agenda per se, but every town is being asked to take a look at this language and decide whether or not do we stand on the side of being welcoming. And why wasn't it good enough for the state to do it and why does every town refer to that? But that's a moot point, because the fact is that we're being asked. It's not up to us to ask why. If you get asked something, it doesn't mean you have to do it. No. No. You could choose to vote against this. That's what we're here for. Exactly. Right. So the request is there. I made the motion that we move on the request within the quick and easy category that we don't have to create a committee per se that is also explained on the website. But it is looking at the language right in front of us, I think that this is a reasonable request. Yeah. The only thing I'd say is like Randy said, and if you vote no, you're not thought of in a positive way. You might as well wear a MAGA hat. Well, you could also abstain. Oh, thank you. You don't have to vote no. You don't have to vote no. OK, thank you. That's right. I have a MAGA hat. That doesn't mean that. I mean, you're looking at a symbol per se. I mean, somebody cannot. I mean, my brother gave it to me. But that doesn't mean it's just you're not. You don't have it on tonight. No, but I'm just saying that you're taking it to a level of conversation that it doesn't really need to go. But I'm just saying that. That's part of the issue that I have with stuff like this, is that it almost becomes, it takes it to a place where it doesn't need to be. And for me, it's not that I don't support any of this stuff. And I agree with the ideologies and totally, for me, it just comes down to just be decent human beings. We don't need to write it on a piece of paper. We don't need to go out and shout what our beliefs are everywhere. We need people to be decent. And for me, there's too much of the, well, you've got to declare what you are these days. And you've got to tell everybody what your stances are. But I think that you're reading into it something that is not at the level that is being presented to us. And I'll agree with you that it's not just this for me. This is pretty big. It's a bigger issue that this falls on. And it really is talking about language that I'm sure has come up in town discussions before, which involves safety. And so it's safety and being welcoming. And how can you say no to that? So we need to vote. Thank you. I'll be quiet. So all those in favor of the motion, please say aye or raise your hand. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Two abstentions. OK. We have adopted the declaration of inclusion. Gentlemen, thank you for your input and support. Well, thank you, gentlemen, for this lively discussion. And we're very, very happy to have a vote of three of you. And I hope the other gentlemen will see the value of it. I know all towns want to become safer places where there aren't racial incidents or incidents of any kind with a marginalized group. We very much appreciate your time and your discussion. Yeah, so I'd just like to add my thanks and appreciate the time you gave it and the intense concentration. We would ask if you would send a signed copy to Bob. Once we have the signed copy, then we count you publicly and increase our numbers on our website. So when you have a GSU, go ahead, Tara. So I don't see anything in the declaration that says it needs to be signed by the select board. Is there something that says it needs to be signed by the select board? The declaration I pronounce just says, as approved by the bill, sex select board. Do you need a sign? We'd like what we, the declaration that's in the packet that you have and before you, we'd like that signed and dated. By whom? By whom? Individual members of the select board? Yes. They need some more lines. Well, could Peter just sign? For the board? It says by the middle sex select board and then maybe just Peter could sign. Or it doesn't matter. I'm sorry. That'll work. That'll work. I'll just sign it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Good night. Good night, gentlemen. Considering renewal of a class 1 and 3 and outside liquor permit for the filling station, is there a motion? I move that we renew the class 1 and 3 outside liquor permit for the filling station. Is there a second? I will support that. I will second it by Randy. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Orders need to be signed. Right here. Yep. Correspondent, Sarah? No, I don't have any correspondence. But in your packet, I did put the VLC template for models of running a select board meeting. I know you guys passed over it while I was on vacation. But I would really like you guys to take a serious look at it and bring it up for this meeting because with all this public participation we're having, we need to have some order here. Sure. If you have two, if somebody needs one, I don't know if somebody didn't get a copy. This goes back to modified Roberts. Because Roberts rules didn't really apply to the select board. And VLC2 doesn't recommend them. But there are important things here, such as that I just want to draw your attention to while you're reading it, such as public participation. All meetings of the body are meetings in public, not of the public. Members of the public shall be afforded reasonable opportunity to express opinions about matters considered by the body so long as order is maintained. So I think that's an important part. And some other things you guys should consider when you're looking it over is whether or not is there any limit to the times a member of the body may speak to a question? How to just have a conductive meeting? You could even, do you need two people to make a motion? Or will one work? So things like that. Just stuff to streamline our meetings so that they go along orderly and without getting into private discussions. Sarah. I'm going to talk about your habit of being here. I should note that. You're fine? Not unruled in the rest of your work. No. OK. No, I should note that. I'll talk. I'll just say briefly about the IA. So we have a meeting. The subcommittee has a meeting on May 1st here at Town Hall with BIA to talk about next steps. So is that a regular select board meeting? No, it's not. It's Monday, May 1st. Yeah, it's just the subcommittee like me and Dave and Sarah and Sandy. So the whole select board doesn't attend? No, I mean, you could if you want. But then we would warn it probably. But we don't want to. I mean, these are just the subcommittees. Like, we will have a meeting where we present to the select board what we've learned. But we're just meeting with them to talk about where they are right now in the process and then the next steps for them. And then at that meeting, we probably will figure out a time to meet at the select board meeting to talk about and to give you guys an update. What time is that meeting? 3.30 to 5.30 on Monday, May 1st here. May 1. Oh, is that? Thank you for that sign, by the way. It's a little far. I think it's too far away from the scene. It's right by that post with the red ribbon on it, isn't it? It's like kind of far. I was a little surprised. I mean, then I was wondering if there was going to be a second sign. OK. Like closer to it. Because it shows that the road is weaving. Like, you're about to see a weaving road. 25 hours an hour. I like that. I will ask Eric tomorrow morning, what are we talking? Thank you. How does it weave? Like this. More than an S. And Randy and I briefly touched about it, but we did attend the meeting today about the municipal energy resilience program. And there's a $4,000 grant that everyone will get if we apply for it. I know that the energy committee would like $500 of that. Because it's kind of designed, it's used for, and they will apply for it if we give them the OK. I don't even think we necessarily need to vote on it or anything. But the $4,000 could be used for, it could be used to form an energy committee, but we already have one. It could be used for outreach for the community about energy stuff. So they would like to set aside $500 to do outreach events for the energy committee. But we can also use it toward like, if we wanted to hire someone to write the grant, the $500,000 grant, we don't have to apply for it today. But it's, I guess I just wanted to throw that out there. There were some other things we could use for. Yeah, it's pretty flexible. Yeah. But it's really meant for, it's not like it wouldn't pay. I mean, we could probably even contribute if the VIA cost more. If it ended up, we could put some of that towards the VIA. It's available for like clerk of the work type work. Yeah. All kinds of stuff. So if we needed somebody to oversee construction project, if we get to that point, could be used for that. Right. It's not a lot of money, right? I mean, for that, but at any rate, if it makes sense to you, I did ask the energy committee to take a look at the grant and see what the process was, because it's already available to apply for. But we're just leaving money on the table if we don't apply for it. It's not like. I mean, you were talking about the $4,000 one. Yeah. But part of it could be that you included it, that we would hire someone to write the $500,000 grant. I think that's a good idea. You think that's a good idea? Yeah. I do, too. I think so, too. I mean, I think it would be worthwhile. I think that's going to be a big. If you missed that window, if you don't have it presented in such a way. Oh, yeah. I'm not sure it didn't sound like, you know, if we didn't write that in the grant that we couldn't spend it on that later on. This seemed pretty flexible. But anyway, if it's all right with you guys, I'll have the energy committee just look through it and talk about it, see if there's something besides. I mean, I don't think they didn't want more than $500 for whatever events they're doing. But I think the grant writing makes sense. Because we're going to need to apply for. We're going to use that money for something. Even if we get back from VIA, that's going to cost $2 million to renovate this building, how much it's going to cost. And even if the town says, no, we're not going to bond for this. We're not going to do anything for this building. We know that we still need to replace the heating system. So we're going to need to apply for this funding to do something, even if we don't go through a full rehab of this building. Does that make sense? OK. It would be foolish to not use that $500,000 for the things that we may need, regardless of what we are doing. We'll be able to use it. We'll be able to use something of it, yes. And what they did also say today, which I think we probably knew this already, is that the assessment will tell us what we need. And therefore, we're not just going to ask for $500 and get $500. We'll ask for what the assessment recommends. But I would imagine that would also include what VIA says in theirs, like, oh, we need all new windows, because it pays for windows. It pays for heating system. It pays for insulation. Up to 20% for ADA compliance? Yes, 20% ADA compliance. Awesome. They did clarify that it doesn't have to be ADA compliance 100%. It's just being more compliant than you already are. Yeah. So great. OK, that's all. Anything else, anyone? So we're clear that we're OK with the Energy Committee moving forward and looking into that grant and presenting. Yeah. Yeah, OK. Yes, OK. OK, I would say we are adjourned.