 Hi, my name is Walid Abdulladium, the Director of Ceres, the Cooperative Institute for Research and Environmental Sciences. And with regard to the question, can space do more to support action on climate change? The first part of my answer to that is space has already done plenty. But the second part is, yes, of course, it can do more to support action. As far as what it has done, the space-based perspective has provided foundational knowledge and information. In other words, the data to help us understand climate change and inform action. And it does this in part by allowing us to access otherwise inaccessible places. The Arctic, the middle of the Sahara Desert, the Amazon rainforest. Now, we can go to these places, but to observe large-scale behavior really requires satellite observations. The second is, the space-based perspective allows us to see the world in ways our eyes can't. By using the full part of the electromagnetic spectrum, ultraviolet, microwave radiation, thermal infrared, in addition to visible, we're able to, quote-unquote, see things that our eyes otherwise couldn't. And the third is perspective, you know, the large-scale perspective of global processes in the Earth system and the interactions among the elements of the Earth system. So what have space-based observations told us with regard to climate change that have helped us understand the situation? Well, I'm just going to give you a few examples that illustrate the points I made before about how we observe from space and what that enables us to do. The first is the shrinking Arctic sea ice cover. We're all aware that over the last several decades Arctic sea ice has been shrinking substantially. We know this because of satellite observations. If we physically went a few hundred miles above the Earth and looked down at the Arctic, we wouldn't see the sea ice. The clouds would be in the way. But because we measure it with microwave, or at microwave wavelengths, the microwaves penetrate the clouds and we're able to see the ice below and its behavior. And so we can see in the late 70s, compared to just last year, substantial losses of Arctic sea ice cover. Another area that's close to home for me is wildfires. Again, the satellite observations allow us to see fires on a continental scale. Their number, their duration, their intensity, and subsequently the fire damage that's done, the spatial extent of these fires. Looking from space helps us get a sense of the behavior of these fires and their evolution with time. Both evolution within a fire incident, but evolution from year to year as to how much these are growing, how more widespread they're becoming. Another area from a global perspective standpoint is sea level rise. Using satellites, we've measured sea level rise reliably since the early 1990s. And what you see here is the spatial distribution of sea level rise. So we can estimate global rise, but also how it varies from location to location, which is dependent on where the energy is being absorbed in the ocean, where the water and ice that are causing the seas to rise, in addition to thermal expansion, are coming in from. And the satellite perspective by orbiting the Earth repeatedly over and over and over for decades tells us the regional characteristics, which makes a huge difference in the implications for coastal regions of a few inches. A difference of a few inches has tremendous implications for people worldwide. And then this last example is really a great illustration of interaction between components of the Earth's system. This is the carbon dioxide uptake from vegetation. And what you see is CO2, carbon dioxide, overlaid on the annual vegetation patterns. And you can see a spring arrives in the northern hemisphere. We can watch the CO2 uptake by the vegetation in the northern hemisphere. And as fall comes, we watch the increase in CO2 as there is less vegetation to take up that carbon dioxide. So the space-based perspective has already told us much, but it's got a lot to tell us going forward. Now, ultimately, the solutions to the climate change challenge is going to depend on policy and sound decision making. The choices we make as a society. And those policies and those choices need data to be made in an informed way. And that, again, is what the space-based perspective tells us. So what can these observations do in the future? Well, one, we can continue watching the climate change story unfold, whether it be manifested through rising oceans, increased fire, changes in hurricane behavior, just plain warming, the implications for vegetation, whatever. The space-based perspective allows us to look at the global scale and understand how that story is unfolding. We can also, through new investments, make new kinds of observations that can help us get at the root of these changes, but also inform the implications of our choices so that we can make our choices better or provide information on the implications of our choices. These data improve models. When we observe and understand, we get better at predicting. So taking these data and understanding the processes at work and improving our models accordingly allows us to better predict the future, better understand what we're in for, and better prepare for what's coming and better mitigate the changes that will happen. So ultimately, this information through the direct observations or how we inform our models will inform policy, will inform our choices. And the good news is we've got the technology, we've got the scientific expertise and capability. What we need is the investment, and we've been lucky that there have been robust investments for quite some time, but when compared to the implications of the climate change challenge and the costs associated with it, those investments have been comparatively small. So with increased investments, we'll be able to do more. We'll be able to better position ourselves to meet the challenges that are undoubtedly coming. And I'm going to leave you with a quote, a pretty powerful one in my view, by Socrates from 400 BC, even then he knew, man must rise above the earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives. It was true then, it was true today, and it'll be true tomorrow. So thank you for your attention and thank you to the organizers for putting this session together and to the other members of this session contributing on the panel. I appreciate being a part of it. Well, that certainly got us off to a good start. I think it comes as no surprise to anyone that space technologies can contribute significantly to global efforts to mitigate and adapt to climate change. And that indeed, these technologies have already been instrumental in helping scientists gain a better picture of the urgency of climate change. But what we're here to discuss today is the knowledge and the technology gaps. What's needed, what's next in terms of new technologies, in terms of how we process and manage current data to ensure that humanity has a full understanding of the problem and is able to take informed action. To try to answer those questions, I will turn to my panel. While that's up, just a quick reminder that we do have a poll on Mentimeter, so please follow the link just below your streaming feed to participate. I am incredibly honored to introduce this panel. It's not often that I get starstruck, but we have a really incredible lineup for you today. To start with, Marion D. Epkein is a metrologist with longest periods in forecasting and research into the African monsoon and weather systems. Following a period is the director of meteorology at the National Agency for Civil Aviation and Meteorology of Senegal. She is currently a program manager at the WMO Africa Regional Office in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Lori Garver is CEO of Earthrise Alliance, a philanthropic initiative established to fully utilize Earth science data to combat climate change. In her illustrious career, she was also the deputy administrator of NASA and the executive director at the National Space Society, among many other roles. Steve Homburg is chief scientist at the Environmental Defense Fund. He has served as the lead author for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change at the UN and was recognized as one of the scientists contributing to the award of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize. Finally, we have Thelma Krug, who is the former deputy national secretary at the Secretary of Policies and Programs of Science Technology at the Ministry of Science Technology Innovation and Communication in Brazil. And in 2015, she was elected vice chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Welcome to my panel. Wonderful. Hello, everyone. Great. So you're all live. Morning. Morning. So you're all live now. I'm actually going to start with Ms. Krug. The IPCC is currently undertaking the sixth assessment report on science related to climate change. I'd like you to start by telling us what role does Earth observation play in this process. And in your opinion, what has changed since the last assessment report? Okay. Thank you very much, Christo. And before I start, let me also congratulate the winners of the context. We really need all stimulating young people, you know, to get interested in the subject. Also, thanks for the opportunity to be here. And I think that Willie has really set up the scene for this discussion here. He said that we already have a lot of remotely sensed data, but this can do more. Satellite information can do more. And we see this increasingly with the IPCC assessment reports. So if I can give just a little bit of the background, the IPCC does not do the research itself. It relies on the assessment of a broad range of literature that is relevant for climate change, including the physical biases of climate change, impact adaptation and vulnerability, and mitigation of climate change. So we have these three big working groups in the IPCC that work in the assessment of the literature worldwide. And this is why it's so important that we have, you know, publication, scientific publications, information from the social economics and technological information. So if we look, increasingly, IPCC has been more than 30 years doing these assessments. We are in the sixth cycle now. So if we go back and see how it improves and how much it relies on remotely sensed data, not only to improve the model capacity to project future climate change, but also on many of the relevant points that we need has put forward, including the shrinking of the sea ice cover, the fires in terms of their intensity, their frequency. We know that, you know, climate change projects with climate change increasing. We project more fires, greater intensity and so on. And remotely sensed data is an incredible tool that we can use to look at this and look at shifts and the trend of the observations. Okay, but to respond to your question objectively, I will, I think that I start to consider working group one that works on the physical basis of climate change. And why is that? It's because their assessment report is coming up for approval of the 195 governments now in July and August. So we are going to have new information coming up. And from the point of view of remotely sensed data, working group one selected five points where they see improvements. So I'm going to just, you know, highlight those points very quickly. One is the improved understanding of the drivers and their role in the Earth's energy imbalance. So we know that, for instance, some publications that just both satellite and in situ observations independently show an approximate doubling of this imbalance from mid-2005 to mid-2019. So it's just this imbalance in the incoming flux to the outgoing one. The second one is the closure of the Earth's energy budget through atmosphere, ice, ocean, land monitoring. So remotely sensed information is really important when we look at this energy budget, because we want to include information from the atmosphere, aerosols, greenhouse gases, surface or be the clouds, vegetation, land use, patterns. So remotely sensed data as a huge contribution for us to assess these. The third one is on the closure of the sea level budget. And we change to reduce the current uncertainties on sea level change and the individual components for this change. So when we reduce uncertainties of sea level change, it improves our understanding of the processes involved in causing this global mean sea level rise and the region of variability. So this is the third one when we talk about closure of both the energy budget and sea level budget. We need to reduce uncertainties and throughout the assessments of the IPCC, you see this very clearly. So one of the real challenges we have is to really improve our ability to project the future and see the changes and remotely sensed data is there. The first issue is also narrowing the range of equilibrium climate sensitivity, including through improved observation constraints on feedback. And we see for instance that in AR4 of 2007, we did have this range of equilibrium climate sensitivity using a model which was the CMIP3 changed in the assessment of 2014 using another model based on another characteristics. And now in AR6 we are going to even have an improved modeling approach, which will help us to narrow the range of equilibrium in climate sensitivity. And finally, the last one is the growing field of constraining climate projections. We are talking about this new area of emergent constraints that is coming up, combining these emerging constraints and relating them with observations that could reduce uncertainty surrounding future climate. On the last two points that were made by working group one, and I think that this is very general, I think that the points I made were very technical in nature, but two important issues they highlighted. One is the importance of remotely sensed data for the quality of reanalysis and the challenges that are linked to the continuity and also homogeneity of the measurements for doing that. So we see that remotely sensed data needed to ensure this continuity so that we can do reanalysis, looking from past information and observations, but we need to have continuity of this. So we see that the need for the programs to have continuity and consistency. So I want to come back to that point. So I think what we'll do, I'm going to go to the next question, but I'd like to come back to this idea of the quality of data, because I think that's really going to be key for our audience to understand that challenge. Okay, that's perfect. First, just a small point, Crystal, and it's also the regional information. It's really the importance of having this really, really going from the broad to the smaller scale. So those are the two points that the working group finally made. Thank you. That's actually the perfect segue into our next speaker, Ms. Kane. I wanted to ask you about climate services for adaptation and how they're generated through the Global Framework for Climate Services and specifically about that situation in Africa. What are the unique challenges that you face there? Thank you, Crystal. Thank you, Crystal. Do you hear me? My internet is going on and off. I hope you can hear me. It's a pleasure to be part of this climate change. It's definitely inevitable. We are already in it with climate variability and increase of extreme events, both in frequency and intensity. All parties are working to keep to the Paris Agreement and keep the temperature change down to 1.5 degrees Celsius increase. Meanwhile, we need to adapt and move to climate resilient, climate smart activities to get the best out of it and minimize the impact on societies and economies. So climate services can help surely. They're essential tools for adaptation to climate change. And many reports, as you may know, have shown that investing in climate services has many benefits. It's been rated to one out of four. So climate services are really essential for climate adaptation. So following the third world climate conference, the GCS was established with a three-tier organization at global level, regional, and national level. And climate services are realized through a value chain from operational hydrometrological systems, including observation networks, data and databases, climate monitoring and forecasting products, and provision and delivery of services and all through partnership, research and innovation and development, as well as user interface platform. WMO, Global Producing Centers, will feed information into the regional climate centers, which in turn process regional products to be used and adapted by national meteorological and hydrological services to meet their users' needs. National meteorological and hydrological services develop tailored product through user interface platform, as I just said, and through collaborative research, both at national level and international level, and partnership to support planning and decision-making in climate-sensitive sectors, such as agriculture and food security, water resources management, health, energy, disaster risk reduction to achieve improved climate-related outcomes and generate social-economic benefit. One example of climate services is the seasonal focus produced during the regional climate outlook forums, the ARCOFs, and these have been established over 30, 20 years now and have a nearly global coverage. And at the end, organize your national climate outlook forum where they define, refine the focus at the national level and update it throughout the rainy season. And the tendency of the rainy season is then well known, well in advance, as well as perspective for food security or insecurity. And this is very important for Africa, which is highly dependent. Challenges in Africa are many, but the main one I would say is for data and infrastructure, as well as expertise. But for expertise, we have a growing number of experts, but the issue is to have a critical mass of experts being returned at national level and develop those climate services. For the data and infrastructure, we've been having a steady decrease of the observation data. And this is not a significant impact on climate infections. Thank you, Marianne. I think we're losing you a little bit. So hopefully that's fine. Marianne, I think we're losing you a little bit. So I'm going to move on to our next question and swing back to you because you were just getting into the challenges and I'd like to hear more about that. My next question is for Lori. Your organization works to convert Earth data systems into relevant and actionable knowledge to combat climate change. Can you talk to us about how the different audiences, ranging from the general public to policymakers to scientists, what are the different needs when it comes to understanding the climate change data that is generated by Earth observation satellites? Sure. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. Earthrise, when we began just a few years ago, looked into the data that was available and determined that the biggest gap really was in connecting the unbelievable amounts of data we have to users. And those users can range, of course, from the public all the way to policymakers and a number of parties in between or uses that are perhaps unlimited based on the fact that as well lead, I think well outlined in this earlier talk, the unique perspective of space offers us something that we cannot get otherwise. I named Earthrise because, of course, connecting space to the Earth, that Earthrise photo that was taken by the Apollo 8 astronauts was the first look back we had in the mirror that really captured the public's attention. But I also sort of capitalized Rise because I worked at NASA, so you have to have acronyms, and Rise is a renaissance in sensing the environment. We have not only the new developments in sensor technologies and satellites, lower costs of launches and satellites, and all the new ways we have of storing and accessing data and modeling techniques. So we have had, I fully agree with this forum's premise, so much value to the climate change discussion that we wouldn't even know about without our satellite constellations. But it's time for us to really figure out how to best utilize that data between resilience, things we can do to mitigate, and things that we can do to adapt. So for the public, we at Earthrise primarily work through journalists to tell stories, you know, no matter what, it's a local story. And the public around the planet needs to see and can see now from space what is changing in their own backyard. And I think Earthrise making that connection by seeding stories around the world to journalists who can then utilize the data within what is happening in their neck of the woods. So we utilize all the free government satellite data but also have agreements with the private sector providers like Maxon and Planet and Airbus. So being able to add value added analysis and show the public what's happening so they can recognize and take action to prevent it is one aspect of this. We also move students through teachers and allow them to access the data because, again, there is so much wonderful data out there from space and they can build on their own tablets or phones a story that shows in their own backyard how climate has affected their own environment. Ultimately leading to policymakers I think the major issue for policymakers is having people beyond sort of the agencies that create the data like NASA really recognize how they can utilize it and to be able to share that information. If we are to do what most people agree would be necessary to really address climate change we have to be able to measure it more precisely emissions in particular. And if we can do that both with I think all the greenhouse gases but we're starting to do that with methane and certainly CO2 that you can have a monetization scheme that is built on something that is verifiable. So this would also work for trade agreements. I think policy can be set if it's somewhat of a chicken or egg, I always thought well, let's set the policies and certainly the private sector will come along if the government is going to buy that data to be able to fulfill the needs but it is also now the push and a pull because right now we have organizations developing data that will inform policymakers so it can drive policy. So the technology is just an amazing renaissance where we are able to utilize more of the data but we don't utilize it in a way that as I think every single speaker has said already is as meaningful as it can be. So if you are looking to as an insurance company you probably have found a way to get that information. If there is a way to make money more and more people will do that but in a policy center I think can do a better job and at least this administration is working to do that. I will note that we often one of the gaps I think in the policy world is NASA for instance think well we measure climate but we are not the ones who set policy to do anything about it. And then NOAA is an operational agency and they are there to convey what is happening around the operational side and the hole in this the gap is who is going to analyze that data in order to influence policy and it would go back to the 80s when we had the determination by not just NASA but other agencies of the ozone hole but NASA scientists did help contribute to the ultimate recognition and solution so recognizing that CFCs were contributing to the deterioration of the ozone hole led to them being banned through policy and that is the feedback with that we are trying to incentivize by people to think that this data isn't just for science there should be things that connect that data to actions that make a meaningful change and that is what we are all about. Yeah absolutely, Laura you had on two points one you gave me a great lead in to Steve just an organization that is actually seeking to do exactly what you are saying which is address a very specific need within the community but before I turn to him I absolutely agree with you you are a geek and when you are a scientist build it and they will come we are excited about the data it shows us so much and there is an absolute truth in that but you hit on the point that it is about building a chain of information and it builds on what Marian was saying about turning this into services and the ability to make decisions and motivating people to do so because we know something doesn't mean something happens next so having the data is incredibly important but then building out information and attitudes and services and interpretation all of those things matter just as much I think that was really a great overview Steve I would like to turn to you next you are engaged in some exciting new work by a non-governmental and non-commercial organization essentially as I understand it custom designing a satellite just recently Governor Newsom of California set up another related project that these home grown satellites are a game changer so I would like for you to tell us about how that came to be and especially what other possibilities you see in the future in this particular area thanks so much Crystal and thanks for the great talks and it is great to be here with these distinguished colleagues so I think Lori set it up wonderfully I describe it as we are trying to build the data to action pipeline so what we need to do is not only have that intact pipe but also fill it with high quality data so MethaneSat is a satellite being built by MethaneSat LLC which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Environmental Defense Fund a non-profit and what we are trying to do is to produce high quality actionable data and fill the gaps that Lori described so that we can actually provide free of charge across the globe highly resolved, spatially resolved and fully quantified Methane emissions data from the oil and gas industry as well as hopefully agriculture which we are still working on this satellite will launch in 2022 late 2022 and it really is a game changer and really trying to think through in a way the reverse order while Thelma talked about critically important scientist as a scientist who has worked on climate change for many decades on the ground and Mary Ann talked about adaptation, another essential piece and Lori talked about how to build the civil society actually what we need though is increasing quantities of actionable data and we have to start with what data do we need and then work backwards to what technology will be required and that's exactly what we did in the MethaneSat case we didn't start with the technology we started with what data is missing and we started by using on the ground data collected intensively in the United States to say what do we need to understand in order to map and quantify Methane emissions from oil and gas industry and why look at oil and gas because it represents a significant source of Methane and most people don't even recognize that Methane accounts for a quarter more than a quarter of the warming we're experiencing today and because it's a short-lived climate pollutant roughly half of the warming will experience from emissions that are climate emissions from this year will be the result over the next 20 years so excuse me let me make that clear so the impact of this year's greenhouse gas emissions over the next 20 years will be dominated by Methane emissions CO2 is a critically important greenhouse gas which we have to reduce because that determines the long-term warming but in the near term if we want to slow the rate of warming which is creating so much of the damages we've got to reduce Methane emissions and oil and gas industry has demonstrated they have the technology and the ability to reduce those emissions has shown that 75% of emissions are can be reduced with existing technology and roughly half of the emissions can be reduced at no net cost so we have a great opportunity but we don't have enough data so we started with what specific data do we need and then we went and said can we measure it from space because ultimately as everyone said we need to do this across the globe and the best place to do it is from space that resulted in a partnership between a range of different groups in academia former government employees, the government in New Zealand as well as the commercial space industry we brought all of this expertise together to develop this capacity in relatively rapid time to create the most highly effective satellite so it's the most precise satellite currently being built or planned to measure Methane emissions from space this will give us an unprecedented ability to see but in addition to the data we have to have the software that allows us to quantify those emissions generally we see data on concentrations those don't easily correlate with quantification so we're developing a fully automated inversion technique for the first time that allows us to map in near real time the total emissions we believe that building these kinds of pipelines through collaborations across civil society with government, with private sector as well as with academics and NGOs will allow us to greatly accelerate what we know which will allow us to take action much more rapidly we believe that is really a game changer we think that we can make rapid progress by using this combination and Laurie spelled it out wonderfully showing how traditionally we have siloed approaches different agencies or groups responsible for individual segments of the problem we really need to bring all of that together, create a pipeline and fill it with high quality data and give policy makers and civil society the data they need to take the action that's required to reduce the rate of warming over the near term and the long term and only with that kind of dramatic action are we likely to be able to put off the most dramatic impacts of climate change which we all fear? It's a big... I mean I think you're exactly right and we know that and so one thing I wanted to actually do was take a look at this word cloud that we put is our first poll so we actually asked our audience to weigh in on sort of what is the first type of benefit and one of the most interesting things that I see in this I know some of it's a little small for everybody to read but some of the biggest words they got put in the most actually don't relate to super specific technology they relate to the actions that you all have been discussing observing, knowledge, measuring, monitoring having a global view, having perspective so I'd like to get all of your thoughts in terms of we've identified I think as a group some of the important needs but one of the things that I'd like to ask is is about resources so in his initial remarks while he specifically brought up resources and I wanted to ask you all, all of you to weigh in on any thoughts you have is the problem here money? Is this that we need more resources put to this problem? Or do you think that it's a lot more complex than that? So maybe Lori I'll start with you and then anyone else who's interested can chime in but I'd like your thoughts on you know do we have enough resources to enact what you all are just describing? It's a great question and resources can mean a lot of things and I would never say we don't need more resources I believe we could effectively double NASA's budget and utilize it very well but it's an and we just do that that wouldn't solve much honestly it is you know as we're discussing you've just said as well a combination of users in the government in the private sector non-profits as well as global organizations so as we're here I'd love to hear from the IPCC what do they really need? We have models we have gaps not because of data we have gaps because people don't know about utilization we have gaps that are still types along pretty much every point and I have found that both the government and the private sector want to do the right thing but they don't talk to each other well or interact well and I think the government really does want to do a better job but the government doesn't speak with one voice and has a lot of priorities so even the great emphasis we have in the Biden administration on addressing climate change NASA wasn't even within the first dozen agencies they thought of to be on their climate policy team so we really have a lot of work to do and we can always use resources and money in other ways thank you I'll just kick it over to Thelma and Lori has a great point and then we'll go to Steve and Marianne what's your perspective on this at the IPCC? I think I mentioned briefly that at every assessment that comes every six years so it's voluntary work of thousands of authors coming from all over the world and obviously as I said assessing models and using these models to improve or to reduce the uncertainty so this is the real benefit that we have from one assessment to the other it's not that we go wrong in one assessment we can do better in the next because you are improving the accuracy of your models and putting more data into the models to make them every time more reliable so I think that from the point of view of the IPCC obviously we rely a lot on the modeling community and the modeling community relies on better and better data so I see when we talk about the issue of the resources obviously as Lori has said resources is always an issue right and but this is why we see a lot of partnerships also I think Lori if you allow me I have been in the remote sensing space agency for a long time and I retired but at the beginning of 1982 the data was paid with Flensat data not too many data available and now through time you see more and more data becoming available for people to use and why do we say the importance of that is really so that everyone is equity everyone could have a chance of getting the data extracting information from that data to as many have said to inform policy makers for action I don't know of a better example than the monitoring of the Brazilian Amazonia for the deforestation and maintaining the consistency and that's what important the consistency of the data availability that allows us to every single year wall to wall to inform the government now well if that triggers action at least the information is there so from the point of view of the IPCC science is there we inform data is there now action action should come from every single government and that's what we are expecting from all governments in climate change so it's really an important issue here resources availability free access to data and it's not only me saying that a lot of communities saying the importance of free accessible data to extract information to inform policy makers then it's up to them how to manage that I can't hear you yeah I agree Thalma I sit on the program board of the group on earth observation that focuses on exactly this and so sometimes it's not just about putting more money into new data it's about how much we have access to and what we can do with that is there enough resources to access the data that is available Steve I'd like to get your thoughts on this topic well I think Thalma pointed out two key things so obviously open access data is critically important and while private sector is important it doesn't replace that open access data and the second one is policy relevant data and the example in the Amazon is a fabulous one the data that's collected is not policy relevant and there's no mandate to make it policy relevant so we really need to ensure that the funds that we do have lead to the full filling of that pipeline and not just data for data sake and while that is harsh I can say that I was an academic for most of my career I've been doing academic research for a long time for many decades we need a mandate to say that all of the data needs to lead there that's not to say that basic research isn't important but we haven't filled the gap and given that mandate to public spending and we have to recognize as we're doing with methane sat that philanthropic investments is also critically important we're able to make all the data for methane sat publicly available and do all of this work in a short time by using philanthropic funding so thus we're taking no corporate funding and we do have government funding from the New Zealand great so Mary Ann I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as someone who is focused on climate services in Africa what are your resource needs where are the areas where you think there is more need for funding or other resources Mary Ann I can barely hear you, thank you sorry I was breaking up but I was going to come up to resources before my internet breaks up I think that resources are very important it depends just on where you are sitting in the world in Africa having access to the data and I would even add infrastructure is capital we say that it is even the main challenge and I would put it under the budget constraint of the national meteorological and hydrological services which we're having very limited really resources so it's important and it is even well highlighted in the African Ministerial Conference on Meteorology which is working very hard with the African Union Commission to increase the political support to national climate services and ensure that climate services are adequately delivered and in this delivery I think that all of the value chain of the climate services needs to be strengthened so access to data being aware to the data getting the infrastructure to process those data are really key for Africa, thank you thank you Mary Ann that actually takes us to some of our audience questions which are starting to roll in so a reminder to everyone if you'd like to ask this panel or any of our panels you can click on the link at the bottom of the live stream I'm excited, I think one of the first questions that has already gotten some upvotes in our voting people from the audience is related to exactly what Mary Ann was just talking about so I'd like to see if anyone else can answer it so starting with this question do policy makers know how important satellites are for tackling climate change and if not what can we do to improve that awareness and I'd like to add I think this is a great question because I think to a certain extent the answer is yes but not entirely and so all of you have interacted with government in different ways and I'd like to hear your thoughts on what we can do to improve the understanding of this information is there so Thelma I saw you nodding what are your thoughts exactly as you say they all know but not everything so all the very technical issues that I put forward from working group one most likely you know the government do not know into depth you know the implications of these measurements and these models and so on what do the governments know more readily they more readily know about land use change so that's my assessment because of inventories because of submissions to the ANF people see like you know forest changes like degradation deforestation so so they are more interested or no more about the importance of remote sensing to assess these changes in land use and the implications of that so I would say that that is the number one for governments I would say and then you know others will build up their knowledge depending on how is they're surrounding in terms of technical people making them knowledgeable of the increases in CO2 in CH4 as Steve has said I don't think that many governments know about the CH4 Steve you know although we do have satellites already that measure that but I think that one of the implications and just crystal just to finalize is really you know remotely since they cannot separate the implications from anthropogenic anthropogenic actions in natural variability so many governments put that you know in front saying well maybe this is not really you know because of anthropogenic actions or measures but they come from natural variability that for instance is the case for pyres and just to give one example so let me jump in Selma I think is right so I'm going to suggest that in fact what we need to do is ask the policymakers what data they need to create effective policy and then make sure we have it because in most cases we do not have the data that that's why I call it policy relevant data not at all some and where I would maybe disagree a little with Selma is that I think we do have the capacity for many types of sources of greenhouse gases to separate anthropogenic from human cause from natural emissions now there are some tough places absolutely where they're angled makes it very hard but we can do a lot better than we have by building instruments to provide the data needed by the policymakers with a deliberate mind to that and not the science and as a scientist I did almost my career thinking about what do I need for science very important we need to turn that around what do we need to help humanity address the problems and build the tools to give that data in addition we have done a terrible job I would argue at that and I think that what we can do certainly what we found in methane is the tools were out there and we're not being deployed and we needed to start the bit again we need to run the from the pipeline the opposite way what do we need for policymakers then back up to the data and the technology and I think what we'll do is we'll see a rapid acceleration in the usefulness the recognition of the power of remote sensing and just a few years we have all the tools we just need to put them together and create a new generation of satellites that are much more policy relevant. Yeah I think that's a great point and it's impossible to separate out scientists doing things for science and then the incredible need that we have as a society right now and it's always going to be both that this is one area we're changing our frame or at least adding that frame of trying to think of it from the other direction is really key particularly when it comes to making useful data Lori did you want to chime in on this one? Only to emphasize the point I could not agree more and you know NASA's science and applications but the applications parts are really tiny and really not starting with the end state user in mind well the end state user is and has been that researcher to what Steve used to be and we need to transition to policymakers outside of just you know domain of studying Earth as a system and in addition to doing that be able to identify users so we can develop to their needs it's not something NASA likes to do I guess I would ask Steve if this even for me ten years ago I was frustrated at NASA's insistence on sticking with the exact Decadal plan for Earth Sciences and it would take 30 years to fly it all out with these big missions that were not based on any of the applications that were current and in talking to Barry anymore who at the time had led the Earth Science Decadal report and now while we followed with the next Decadal report they both acknowledged that things in Earth Sciences change faster so that the investments probably can't be decided that far in advance those work for astronomy for instance Steve do you think that is something we could do differently? Absolutely and again it's an and right so I am not in any way pushing back against science that would be against my training and background but we need to exactly be nimble and that's where I have to credit the folks that we brought in from commercial space they knew how to be nimble in a way but that wasn't sufficient we also needed the best leading academics which we brought in we have two great institutions in Harvard and the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory as key partners it was bringing all of that together historically we've not brought all those sectors together the policy makers so on our team we have a whole series of people who do nothing with the policy makers so we can get that input what do they need what is the finance community need what do all these different communities need we need to have that voice there and not just I've worked with Barry in over many years a lot of great scientists but you need other types of voices when we do these reviews and they can't be Decadal or multi Decadal they have to be both long term and near term and just like the climate problem a near term problem and a long term problem and it's a big and we got to solve both that's a great thing it's all about implementing effectively the global climate framework services as I said in the beginning it's defining who needs the data what for policy makers, users and that can be done through a user interface platform so implementing the global climate services is at national level original level is the key point absolutely I'd like to this is such a fascinating topic but I also want to give our audience a chance to ask more questions and I think the next one is really interesting so the question is in the past few years young climate activists have made global headlines what can young space professionals do or any space professional for that matter due to boost the utilization of space systems for climate change and action and so I think a way of rewarding this is we've been talking about all these different end users this is a really interesting group does anyone have any thoughts on as a public you know what about these young people who are really pushing fractions in some cases making a lot of progress you know is there a way that we can try to connect space data to them I have a concept that I put out in a couple ways that I'll just outline quickly which is the climate data core or something like Biden has proposed and I think he's having both the Interior Department and the Agriculture Department lead it but I think NASA know USGS could play a role because young people need to be well versed in reading satellite data and interpreting it and if you put people into training who do this or have people coming out of academia who have this ability they can go into local communities across the United States but hopefully the world more like Peace Corps to work with the decision makers on the local level we understand the impacts of this are local at least for adaptation and resilience and to me there are so many people coming my kids are in their 20s who this is should and is their number one priority and they would sign up to do some kind of service for and space needs to play a role our data can be utilized better if we put people out who are trained who can connect that information people who do Do you have any thoughts on this? You work with a university as part of your project I'm just curious if it's something that you think certainly we try and there is a lot of younger folks part of our project through universities but I think also satellites bring one set of data they're not the only source of data and there's a lot of on ground true thing there's a lot of remote sensing more visible spectrum mapping because one of the key things is you need to be able to understand that you don't have those kind of global math so I think there's to Lori's point just a whole host of ways to interact what we have to do is also be realistic and you know there's some of this is highly technical and requires a fairly sophisticated math and there are fabulous young people who can do it but it isn't something that the average 18 year old or even the average 25 year old can do so we need to basically create a menu of options for people to get involved I think they exist there lots and lots of organizations utilizing a range of citizen science as well as advanced computing and we see it in the data science world where we have all kinds of competitions that take advantage of a younger generations commitment yeah absolutely and I think you're right that it's not everything right but there's an opportunity for visualization here and outreach that doesn't fit in the global paradigm of governments and you know scientists and so trying to think of what we turn data into in certain circumstances for that outreach I think has a real possibility there I'd like to move on to one more audience question I think I'll have Maryann maybe take this one first so we've talked a lot about satellite data here but that's not the only data source so this person was asking is there a need for the space community to develop more interactions of climate data so Phelma or Maryann I'd love to hear from you on this one sure and we need to mix up these long series of satellite data with the institute data and any other data that can allow the computation of climate records to study climate change I can give the example of Copernicus climate change service which is very useful but the African users need to be aware of those data to be able to develop their capacity to access them use them and process them for their own needs human satellites I think have been organizing lots of series of webinar but there are other satellite providers whose data can be of interest and the African community need to be aware of that so we need to really do some awareness to that those youngsters and other users have access to them and what is very good and very promising is that many satellite operators are working together through the coordination group of the meteorological satellite CGMS and the community of Earth observation satellite COS working group on climate monitoring to produce good climate data records without gaps so I'm very excited about the new generation of satellite that are coming as they will offer tremendous atmospheric and atmospheric composition data as well as surface ocean data with a much better special and temporal resolution and I think that this will in the long run offer better climate data records with a much higher resolution that will enable better knowledge of local climate change in the future. Thank you so much what do you think about how the space community interacts with other data sources? Well it's essential I would say that if you take for instance remotely since data as an example to assess land use change and then you would need some data to field ground data to validate your satellite data that's essential depending on the classifier that you are going to use to structure the information it has to be trained to do that and training means that you would input data that you have collected elsewhere so field data is essential here I score data so we are talking about a whole set of other data sets to feed into the system it was really interesting because when we didn't have for instance satellite data to look at the concentration of CO2 for instance all other gases and when they came up into reality you see how much they fit into previous observations so that gives much more let's say confidence to governments that you are putting together a whole set of data coming from different independent sources that obviously add to the reliability of what you are talking about so it's essential I would say it's essential to have diverse sets I just want to emphasize that I think there are some wonderful programs like IGAS at WMO so I'll plug Mary Ann's wonderful institution as well as now at UNEP the International Methane Admissions Observatory which is trying to link all these data bring them together in a way that allows us to create because they give you very different perspectives totally agree with Thelma it's absolutely critical for validation you need this kind of data but on the methane front there are hundreds and hundreds of scientists literally many many hundreds collecting field data that absolutely creates a granularity that we are well away from or produce with remote sensing and so they are complementary they also provide the capacity building around the globe as these studies occur in a diversity of nations where you have good science but maybe you haven't worked on it and it's really that combination that gives us the confidence against Thelma's point and there are institutions that are working across these different scales and we need to support those absolutely so I'll be honest I could continue this conversation forever we have more great questions coming in from the audience but we have to end on time so I want to close with one opportunity for sort of one final comment here and maybe kind of give 30 second two minute answers to just say this isn't a new problem I'm really excited about everything we've talked about I think the opportunities are amazing but you know there's also a concern that we're not taking action fast enough and that as we talked about with young people they're very concerned for a very good reason we have the focus on the UN sustainable development goals and whether we're going to reach those in this area and so I'd like to close with just an opportunity for you to say 30 seconds of what do you think the most important form of action that we could take in this area in say the next 10 years or if you could sort of tell governments or academia or the commercial industry one thing that you think that they should do what would that be Steve I might start with you I suspect I might know the answer but I'm curious what you have to say and then we'll just go around the panel yeah so well as I mentioned we need to reduce methane emissions dramatically it can slow the rate of warming incredibly quickly which will reduce damages and related to that is I think we need the satellite community needs to think about as I said before what data does the policy community need and we have to ask them in the next few years so that a decade from now we have a picture of what's happening that we've never had before and I think that's a game changer absolutely Laurie what about you the greatest gap is in leadership to me it does take people around the world in senior positions who show real leadership and stand up to what we now know is happening how we can get even more of that information and make decisions that will be impactful from that data in the US I believe that NASA could take a much larger role I think NASA was formed to address what the US at the time envisioned as a global crisis and they stepped up to it and they could do more now but there needs to be greater coordination in the US government for managing the data as part of the greater issue great thank you Thelma what about you what would you tell everyone to do I'm gonna do bullet wise so Laurie was right when she said we need leadership and also we need to recognize that different governments have different capacities to implement kind of response like adaptation mitigation so a bit point is leadership as Laurie has said we need international cooperation that's fundamental and IPCC recognizes that we need partnerships in terms of research in terms of technology transfer capacity building we need improved governance those international governments for some of the research issues that are necessary and also national government strengthening of institutions so and moreover I think that governments are lacking to look at climate change and the opportunities to address this to limit climate change the opportunities in so many areas I think they are looking more from the negative side of how much this is going to cost etc but they are not looking at the benefits and the opportunities before addressing climate change and limiting global warming so I would say that these are my main points great thank you and Marianne what are your thoughts Thelma nearly said it all but I would say a win-win partnership really in cooperation to transfer technology that enable access to data all data satellite all data and have the infrastructure it is very important in Africa to process the products that users need both policy makers and local users thank you so we are about to head to our break but before I do that I just want to say thank you to Lori, Steve, Thelma and Marianne this has been an amazing conversation and honestly I hope it's not the first I admit when we built our agenda we were really thinking about changes that had happened in the world in the last year in the United States, government and just really trying to say what can we talk about that will help people understand in the space world we often talk about the value of satellites and we assume their value but I really wanted to dig into where the opportunities in the gaps and what could we do to do even more than we have done that today so thank you all so much for being here for being an amazing kickoff for our Summit for Space Sustainability and thank you so much I really appreciate your time today