 Hi, I'm George Kow and I'm really excited to be here with Sean Galanos. Sean, did I pronounce your last name correctly? Close enough. It's Galanos. Galanos. Nice. Is it Greek? It is Greek. Yeah. Okay, cool. So Sean, you are a coach, a love coach, a podcast host. You create courses, you teach communication and intimacy skills for people to have better relationships and more love. I love what you do and how you do it, man. I'm really, really, really happy to be here. Yeah, more love. There's a wife and I've been watching a show called Little Voice on Apple TV. Anyway, they have a song called More Love. They actually have that video on YouTube, so I'll go look it up. More Love, Little Voice YouTube video is kind of kind of cute. So it reminds me of that. But let's get into talking about how do we have better relationships? You teach some awesome things. Obviously, you have several courses. What we're going to be able to do today is to dive into some of your most kind of poignant tips that clients find most helpful. And so one of them is that a lot of people don't know what they want. Or even if they think they know what they want, they don't have the skills to ask for it. Now, there's a lot there. I mean, that's an entire course that you teach. But tell us more. Like, what do you mean we don't know what we want? Because I know what I want. I want some ice cream now. Like, what do I want? Well, sometimes you want ice cream. Right. And then you have the ice cream and you feel great. You have you got the thing that you wanted. But sometimes there's a need below the ice cream. Right. Exactly. The ice cream is. You mean the ice cream can't solve all my problems? The ice cream is not going to solve all your problems. It's delicious. It's fun. It feels good. But sometimes, and this is personally speaking, I eat food to change the way I feel. And by the way, are we talking in metaphors here? The ice cream, meaning something else? No, the ice cream is ice cream, yeah. I eat food to change the way I feel sometimes because I'm sad. Because I'm lonely because I'm disappointed because I was rejected, right? Either in business or in love or I wanted a thing that I didn't get. And so I will find things to make to soothe, to self-soothe. Yeah, to self-soothe. Exactly. And sometimes, like, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say, like, you know, the ice cream can be right. You know, it can be analogized to something we do in relationships. You know, we ask, like, what's something people often ask for to self-soothe in a relationship that isn't really what they need? Sometimes, like, like, for example, I might I might tell my wife you know, I don't know, like, maybe I want, like, I can sense a little bit of maybe she's having not not not the greatest day. And it's almost like I'm I say, what's wrong with you? Like, I like want her to be happy so that I can be happy. But I don't do it in a way that's that's really, really meeting the deeper needs of either me or her. Right? Yeah. Yeah, maybe there's a need there for you to be helpful for for you to feel good by being helpful. Right. Right. So now you have sort of like a save your thing coming in. You're the you're the white knight that's going to save your your wife's bad day. Yeah. When sometimes maybe your job is really just to support her in whatever way makes sense for her, not so that you can feel better but so that you can be there for her. Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And of course, if I do it in that way, in the more of a service oriented way, you know, she opens up more and there's more genuine intimate communication and we both feel better rather than almost like, you know, you want a shallow result. Right. Like so. So what else? What other things do we think we want or why is it that we don't know what we want? Well, sometimes we want sex. Right. Yeah. We think we want sex when we really want emotional intimacy and connection and commitment. Yeah. Yeah. But this is for both both men and women and all jitters. We will we will assign undue importance to sex because of what it means, but really what we're wanting is closeness. Intimacy. We want someone to be there for us. And we think that sex is one of those ways of getting that. And that's true. It is one of those ways. I was at a retreat this weekend and one of the things that I heard that really stuck with me is, you know, I want I want love and I want to make I want to make love by having sex. Right. So sex and sexuality and intimacy is a way to bring more closeness to a relationship. So sometimes people say, man, I really want to have sex. But what they really want is more closeness. They want more connection. They want more time. They want more physical contact. It's not necessarily the act of sex that people want. It's it's what it brings with it. Yeah, like that's a big one. The emotional connection is a far deeper and pleasure, I guess, fulfillment, right? Then then the physical pleasure can be. And when, you know, and of course, everyone knows when you couldn't go have sex with somebody that you don't love or that there is no love there. It's yeah, the physical pleasure maybe is there. Often sometimes it's not even. But it's like it's not that's not that's not why we were that's not that that isn't it. So sometimes is it sometimes people want to have sex just to have sex. And that's totally fine. There's zero judgment on my behalf. I've I've been that person for a long, long time just wanting to connect physically with somebody. And sometimes, like the ice cream, that is what I want. I don't actually want anything deeper than that. Having sex will fill the need for for that kind of connection. And sometimes it's a replacement for something else. Yes, that's why the discussion around what do you actually need? Not what do you want, right? You want ice cream, but you need comfort and safety and feeling good and memories of my childhood and right feeling loved. So there's sometimes a disconnect between desires and needs. And people often say, oh, I I I I tend to attract people who are unavailable, emotionally unavailable. Yeah. OK, what why does that happen? Well, subconsciously, I think we were we're drawn to people that that that we need. We need to have this experience. We need to be let me back up a little bit just briefly, simply said, sometimes we are in relationships with people who are unavailable because we ourselves are unavailable. So if I'm in a relationship with somebody who's unavailable, and that could be either emotionally unavailable, right? They're they're not comfortable or comfortable or willing to go into vulnerability, intimacy. That's emotional unavailability. There's logistically unavailable. Somebody who's so busy, they work a lot. They they're they live in a different city that there's life circumstances that make it so that they're actually quite unavailable. And the other is unavailable in terms of different life goals and dreams. So let's say this woman wants kids and I don't want kids. Well, I'm unavailable to have the kind of relationship that makes sense for her. Right. So if we have very helpful, if there's a huge gap between what I want and what they want, there's a level of unavailability there. So I hadn't heard it described that way before. And that's very helpful because usually you just hear emotional unavailability, but it doesn't cover it, like you said. So there's a bunch of different ways for people to be unavailable. And so if you find yourself in relationships with people who are unavailable, it could indicate that you yourself are available to explore the depths and the scariness of relational intimacy. It's scary. It's scary to open up and to show somebody who you really are and to explore your childhood wounds together and to share your stories of trauma and to share your your hopes and your dreams. And, you know, what happens if I share that I want to, you know, build a cabin in the woods with you and you don't? What if I if I say that I want to have children with you and you don't? These are all this is scary, scary stuff. And so sometimes we're in relationship with people who can't give us what we want because we're kind of scared ourselves of getting what we want or of getting it and then losing it. So it's safer to be in relationships with people who are unavailable. And I just want to mention that I don't really believe in manifestation. I don't believe in, like, you know, calling in the one and how come I'm only attracting unavailable people? It must be because energetically I'm misaligned. I don't believe in that kind of stuff fully. I don't fully believe in it. I believe in action. Yeah. And, you know, and you're a huge proponent of action, right? You schedule it, you do it, whether you're sick or not, you do the thing and you'll get the results. So in terms of availability, I don't care whether you're attracting people who are unavailable. I care whether you are engaging with people who are unavailable. Right. You you have a conscious decision to engage with people who are available, right? Who are married or who don't want to have kids when you want to have kids who live far away and never plan on living in your area. There are ways in which people are unavailable, in which it's obvious that they are and you choose to engage in a relationship with those people. Interesting. Now, of course, some people might say, well, once we become intimate, once we get closer, then their availability might change. I'm hoping. Is that reasonable? Advised? I mean, that's that's kind of falling in love with potential. Yeah. Right. Instead of the person that's in fixer upper. Yeah. Right. And that's, you know, if you look at it in the business context, you might not love the business that you have right now. But, you know, you really have a vision for the future. Right. But the thing about your business is that it's mostly your own, like it's your choice. It's your actions daily, whereas it's with somebody else. It's obviously it's not your choice. It's really mostly their choice. That's right. Well, you know, there's you, there's the other person and there's a relationship that you're building, which is actually kind of like business. There's you, there's your customers and there's the business that you're building. That's right. If your customers aren't aren't on board, then you've got no business. Right. So if you're in a relationship with someone who says, I'm never going to want to have kids or yourself are saying, well, I think they might change their mind eventually. Then you're delusional. You're deluding yourself into thinking that they're going to change. And I want to be clear. Some people do change. Yeah, we all change. Yes. Yes. Change. Yes. And it's usually slowly over time. Yes. It's usually slowly over time. Here's an example. I always thought that I would be in a relationship with a rock climber because I like rock climbing. Interesting. Wow. So it was important for me to be in a relationship with someone so I could share that activity. My partner does not rock climb. She plays soccer. I don't play soccer. I'm not going to rock climb with her. You're not, you're not going to rock climb with and you're not going to play soccer with her. Well, I do go and play with her and help her with her drills and stuff. That's cool. But my therapist and I were talking about what's important. Is it the rock climbing or is it that she has a sense of adventure? Hmm. Nice. Nice. Now we're looking at being a little bit more nuanced, a little bit more curious about what does rock climbing represent? It actually doesn't represent the physical activity of climbing rocks. It represents this sense of adventure, wanting to take away, take off on weekends of sleeping in the truck, of cooking your own food, of, of, you know, being in nature. And she very much has that. She just doesn't have the technical know how to rock climb. And I've never invited her to go climbing just because I'm trying to practice non attachment and letting her be what she wants to be and do the things that she wants to do. And I would go climb with my friends. And recently she said, hey, I would really like to go rock climbing with you. What? Yeah. So I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in, I'm watching a story unfold. You know, that's so cool. It's like, so you never know how things are going to unfold. You never know how things are going to unfold. But if I got into a relationship expecting her to want to rock climb, right, I'm in trouble. Yes, right. I'm going to be disappointed because what if she never does? Yeah. Right. Right. What if she doesn't want to have kids? That's cool. Wow. So, so in other words, even though you had this sort of maybe in the beginning, you had this attachment about a partner who rock climbs. I don't know. Or you had this, you had this hope. You were able to go deeper to find the underlying need under the want of rock climbing and then find the commonality there or the underlying sort of value, perhaps, that you connected on. Is that right? That's awesome. Yeah, that's the the need there is to be in a relationship with somebody who has a sense of adventure. Right. Right. Right. Right. OK, so do you, most of your students and clients, are they mostly in a relationship, single looking for a relationship? Or is there like a big mix? It's hard to it's hard to say. A lot of single, a lot of single people that are dating, that are struggling a little bit with honest and open communication. OK. They're struggling a little bit with asking for what they want. Coming up with the language to ask what they want. Yes, daring, daring to ask for what they want. OK. People that struggle a little bit with rejection. Yeah. So so not asking because of fear of rejection. Got it. Got it. And given that they are, well, I was going to say, like this is true for for dating, but also true for being in a relationship. This idea of like playing games, playing relational games. Tell us about that. Like that's one of the things that you have found surprising that a lot of people don't understand. Sometimes we don't even understand that we're playing games. And sometimes, of course, deviously, we do. And then we do it anyway. But tell us what is meant by playing games and relationship. So first of all, I just want to highlight that I have a sepia thing going on with my camera and I can't figure out. It looks great. It looks great. Yeah, it looks more vintage than it's vintage. I can't think of auto mine. Mine looks to earnest, but seriously. Well, that's that's no, this is good. Keep keep keep it keep it actually looks good. Yeah, I'm going to put auto exposure on and see what happens. You're you're you're you're an earnest. You're more earnest than I am. Well, yeah, so playing games. Is basically trying to manipulate the outcome. OK, yeah. Really wanting to get yours, right? So at the expense of others, right? When you're playing a game, you're playing to win. And rarely are you playing. So there are team games. OK, it's appropriate to play a game with your partner or with the person that you're interested in, if you're on the same team. Nice. Nice. So the game, the game of life, right? How are we going to win at life together as teammates? I'm all about that game. That's a game that I love. OK, right? Your partner, your love interests, your friends, your family, the people you are in relationship with are your teammates. Yeah. And we are winning at life. And there is no losing, basically. We're just wanting to there's different stages of winning, different levels of winning, right? So that's I love that kind of game. And I'm a very playful person and playful people play games. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. You know, one of the one of the funny things that drew my wife and I together in the past few months was playing a little video game on my phone that we had played it many years ago. It's what it is. OK, it's Plants and Zombies. Like we played it many years ago when it first came out and then Plants and Zombies two and play in a while. And I'm like, oh, it's good to try. And I got really into it. And then I and then she got really into it. And so basically now we're like, you know, teaching each other like tricks and things and like, oh, we're rooting for each other. So it's like this little thing that we do a little bit, you know, a bit of time every day. It's like, wow, it's surprising how being on the same team on a little silly thing like that really can can be a bonding experience. And so anyway, it's yeah, it's just an example. But keep going on games. I love I love finding new and unique and novel ways to connect with somebody, especially if you've been in a relationship for a long time, like you have to continue to cultivate that. Yes, there is no resting on the laurels. Oh, my gosh, yeah, no resting on the laurels. I mean, there are periods of rest. Of course, we all need to rest in relationship, too. I think relationships should they are work to a certain degree, but they shouldn't be all work, right? And there are varying degrees of, you know, you go to ebbs and flows of how much work and play you're going to have. But in terms of dating, that's where games come in. Games that I don't believe in and something that I like to say is that I don't play games because I don't know the rules. And the reality is I suspect that not a lot of people actually know the rules because we're all coming at it with different strategies, right? And if you if you look at some of the traditional advice around dating, some of the like more more pick upy, more seduction kind of stuff, it's how can you manipulate the situation to get what you want, right? So don't show too much interest because then they'll have the upper hand. Don't text back too quickly because then they'll know that you like them. Then they'll have the upper hand, right? It's it's a who's got the upper hand? It's not about showing your card. It's about being keeping them close to your chest and not sharing too much. And for me, I don't understand how that works, how that creates deep and intimate bond. And if you want to play games, play games. I hope that you find another game player and you guys can both confuse each other until the relationship blows up. Or I don't know. Well, OK, so what some of the things you said some people might say, well, but isn't that just etiquette? You see what I mean? Like, at what point does it become a game versus an etiquette? Like, oh, I just saw this person. Like, I don't want to be too clingy and text back right away. Like, oh, my gosh, this is the most amazing. We have to see each other tomorrow or whatever. Like, well, yeah, like, very beautiful precision right there. That that that comes into have a full life. Yeah. Right. Cultivate a full life for yourself so that when you meet someone, you get super excited. You have natural barriers that. OK, so it's not this is important. You're not saying, ah, cultivate a full life where you are already on the path of fulfillment yourself without feeling like, OK, I it's this is interesting because like I need this person in order to feel happy and fulfilled. There's a yes and or there's kind of both are true. Full everything is paradox. Everything is like every time I teach a course, I say, hey, you know what? I wish this was a Facebook ads marketing course. I wish I could just say, go to the business manager, you know, create your profile, put a pixel, do this. And you'll get these results. But relationships aren't like that and life isn't like that because we all come to the table with our experiences, hopes, dreams, fears, traumas, stories, you know, we're we're complex. And when a complex person meets another complex person, when a person meets another person, there are a million different ways of creating connection and links. So I don't want people to play games. I want them to be authentic. Yeah. And I also want them to build a full life where they don't need a relationship to come and complete them. So if you have a full life, yeah, then if you have commitments, if you have a yoga practice, if you walk your dog every day without the telephone from this time to this time, if you have business, you know, engagements, then you can't actually be on your phone full time. Right. You have other things to do. Yes. Yes. Yes. Those are natural barriers to texting back right away. Right. OK, that's good. I like that a lot. I want to talk about I want to make sure people know about your your courses. You've got several courses in your and you're creating even more. But you've got two courses that are particularly popular that a lot of your students have taken love taking. One of them is healthy communication. Let's start there. Tell us about that. Yeah, the healthy communication workshop tools for all relationships. Yes. So basically how to ask for what you want. I have a and the cops are agreeing like, yeah, this is awesome. Woohoo. It's so good. How to ask for anything, right? And I'll show you a three part framework to ask for pretty much anything. How to say no with love, so how to set boundaries, how to start daring to say no and to really become your own sovereign being, right? Where where you are the protagonist of your story, right? You are the hero of your story and that means asking for the things that you desire and coming up with the courage and saying saying no when you need to say no. How to talk about like unwanted or hurtful behaviors. So when somebody acts in a certain way that you don't like, how to bring that up in a kind way. Yes, we do. There's probably over a hundred examples in in that workshop, all of these these frameworks and a lot of scripts. Wow. A lot of sentence stems. How can I and who's it? Who's it best for this course, healthy communication? Is it best for or yeah, tell us who the anybody? Anybody who struggles saying with saying no and who struggles asking for what they want and who struggles with having difficult conversations. Nice. And so this could be either you're already in a relationship could be even long term relationship or it could be a you know, you're dating and you want to get better at this so that you can form a good relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Or get closer to the kind of relationship that is in service of you. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. So maybe couples who haven't talked about sex for a long time. There's a lot of great examples on how to have a really difficult conversation, how to set the stage for it. A double buy in for creating an environment that is conducive to intimacy in a loving way. Nice. And then another popular course you have is about emotional availability. So all about emotional. What is it? What is it? Tell us more about that. Like what do what do what can we expect to learn there? You can expect to learn what does it mean to be emotionally available? What are some steps that you can take to open up to love? How do I identify people that are safe to open up to? Because you don't want to open up just anybody. How to share what's appropriate, how to take measured and small steps towards opening up in a safe way. You don't want to just bear your whole soul to someone who hasn't been vetted as someone who can hold your heart with love and tenderness and how to start leaning towards emotional availability and some tools that you can do to self soothe in moments of anxiety. And you also learn how to sit with discomfort. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much. So I just want to those of you who are resonating with this and you know, you know, Sean can really he can he he brings the goods. He has a lot of experience as well as you know, well, experience within himself, but also just so many students and clients over the years that he you know, a lot of the great examples, et cetera, in his courses. So you also have great social media presence. Instagram love your Instagram. So folks, be sure to check them out there. Of course, the links will be in the notes, but the Instagram is called the love drive. So instead of, well, sex drive, it's the love drive. But also you used to do like driving type videos. So yeah, in a taxi in San Francisco. So the love drive on Facebook, on YouTube, on Instagram, on TikTok. And then also my podcast is called the love drive podcast. So there's a ton of free resources for people to go and engage with my content. And if it resonates, then, you know, I invite anybody to reach out. Awesome. Thank you so much, Sean, for your work and the way you do it authentically. And I so appreciate what you do. And thank you for you, for your time and your wisdom and for teaching me what you've taught me so far. Thank you, man.