 All the way the exhibits will be open today from 1115. We transitioned from lunch today Into the exhibit hall for dessert Just provide you with that little bit of extra incentive to go visit our sponsors lunch will be back on the lawn today Obviously, it's a much Better weather day. There's a very good chance that tomorrow. However, we'll need to bring lunch back inside. So Please watch the app and the notice board for those announcements, but it looks I think they're predicting 90% chance of rain there because of that we're also moving lend Silverstone's Thursday workshop on understanding human behavioral factors From the behia bell, which is the smaller of the two boats into the cock-to-room Which is one of these aviary rooms on this level I'll just obviously reduce the number of people who have to possibly walk in the rain Okay at the registration desk you'll find some pink evaluation forms for the conference I Know this seems really old-school to get you to fill us out by hand But we've done electronically and we get like a small fraction of the number of responses and the quality is not nearly as good so We still make this available and to give you an incentive to do that We do a drawing at the end of the conference one person gets an all-expense paid trip back to DJI Q in June next year or to the December event if you prefer to do that And to enhance the attractiveness of this opportunity this time. We're also going to add five complimentary Tickets to Enterprise Data World in March next year those will not be all expenses paid But we will be waiving all your registration fees So if you're someone who likes to give their opinion it doesn't mind spending a few minutes on that We're we're giving you an incentive to to do that For those of you who work kind enough to fill out the tutorial evaluations From earlier this week We have four books to give away actually I gave away two of them it for another purpose So I'm gonna have to buy them from Amazon to send you but Valerie Boventre from Bloomberg Nikki Mead of Alliance Data Daniel calendar Calendon from ball era space and Duran hook from one America We have two books to give away one was the Agile Data Governance book by Laura Madsen The other is Danette McGillvray's executing data quality projects so I'm gonna leave these at the registration desk or Any of those folks whose names I read out are you in the room right now? Oh, you're right in front of me, okay? And Danette sitting right next to it did okay. Do you have this book already? Okay, she might even sign that for you Somebody else whose name I read out Okay, you can ask Danette to Sign your copy as well, and I'm sorry. I'm not making my way through there, but I don't want to put my mask back All right, so we're gonna jump into our keynote now Can we bring Anthony and April up so we have five panelists to affirm our remote obviously And three are live and in person from your right to left our moderator Anthony Algman Anthony wrote the first book that they diversity ever published on data leadership very animated Speaker we love having Anthony with us. He served so many roles from chief data officer through to data governance consultant and at this point is doing amazing work in a big pharma organization, however For his official conference designation. He still uses his his consulting firm April is also actually in pharma now, but April has been In just so many roles of data governance and data architecture over many years At a variety of customer organizations, so she's currently with BMS all right working down the list from your right to left and we have Matt crittenden from IBM. I'll ask Matt to Give his own bio 15 seconds worth of his own bio really quickly I'm an old guy started in the 80s and data integration in the 90s on the ERP and the last of the last two decades in governance and quality, okay Then we have charade fascia from over ledge CEO of over ledge charade yeah, so I'm charade washne CEO of over ledge and I am probably coming from ERP background moving to data warehousing and then move to data Governance so we I build I went to the data governance space really to build the product to start with so this kind of like It's been about Six seven years. We are in the data governance space and we're kind of like building the ground up product from that terrific and Last but far from least Tim Modsgrove from Callisto Media. I've known Tim for many years he's perhaps the most technically Oriented in his current role of any of our panelists, but Callisto is doing some amazing things and Tim is in particular a natural language guy What did I leave out there Tim that you'd like everybody to know about That's pretty much it. Yeah, okay What I the other thing I will say is one of my favorite talks at the conference who is the one that He and his colleagues who I did yesterday on incorporating project management into the data governance Program, so next time we get Tim back. You got to see that talk. All right, Anthony I'm gonna turn this over to you. Anthony came to me with this particular topic about Data governance tooling so I think he's the best person to introduce the topic. Thanks I am very sad to not be in the room with all this speak, but I'm very excited to be opportunity to talk about this topic, so I spent a fair amount of time at the VIQ events and I've spent a lot of time in the industry. I would have made it that most of you the audience are kind of about the opinion that You probably shouldn't put the future of our data governance in the hands of the tools Where we should rely on these tools to make us successful with data governance yet? I also imagine many of you in the audience or all of you in the audience very likely have witnessed a tools first approach to solving big problems in our businesses Where we say hey, let's find that shiny object. We will solve all of our complicated problems So if we ignore that entirely We're probably going to be less relevant to some of those rules that's affecting those decisions that you might not quite be So what we want to be thinking about in the context of this panel is why we kind of pitch this to me and why I'm interested Come to rule one, let's not forget there's tools out there that can help us in our data governance journey And two, I would like our tools that are out there that can help us in our data governance journey And I think we can get better than we have and so what I want to think about today is What are we going to be doing in terms of tools? What do we have in terms of what's supplementing our piece which is probably what we focused on in a lot of the questions that you've been through this week But what is it about tools that may not be meeting, what will be the future You're responding from them today And so let's spend a little bit of time talking about just this and so I will start With my colleague on the phone April to talk a little bit first and why don't we each spend 30 seconds? I've already done mine more than that on what we assess the role of tools and What they do today in terms of what role do data governance tools play in successful data governance today so Thanks, Anthony so I am I work for Bristol Myers Squibb and I've worked as both, you know for corporations and as a contractor consultant setting up data governance capabilities at different organizations and the what You the the struggle with the data governance tools I find is that that We we run into You know, there just isn't enough time or resources To hand curate the metadata about the data. We're trying to manage Okay, and so we want to automate that we want to Automatically collect metadata that we can use to search and find and and manage are the data in the organization The problem is that the automated Metadata collection is too technical It's just it tends to just kind of be a bunch of little metadata pieces of information that have no perspective and no link and no and So the struggle is to try to balance having Description meaning metadata that means something to people and is usable with Being able to automate this and how do you and how do you strike the right balance? I mean you like it to be fully automated, but I've you know I've seen a lot of failures trying to do that, right? You know on the other hand There's there's no way you can fully manually collect this information So we kind of want to do better in the automation. I think and and and Balancing how to achieve creating a catalog an inventory of data that's usable to manage our inventories Great, why don't we go on the same order Tony did well Matt? Why don't we start with you and go right to left across the stage? Tied to that the automation can do a lot of good for you It can speed up the process of collecting that information The problem as we've already discussed is the fact of you get a lot of garbage I just um were my company's releasing some new software not here to talk about that But we just went through a bunch of pilots with a with a series of customers and one customer During their pilot brought in 29,000 data tables Zero terminology policies the things that would tie to that another customer did the exact opposite brought in 15-16,000 business terms no data objects So they're focusing on little miniscule parts of it Technology's not going to help you on that. You know, we all know the holy trinity of governance, right? People process technology or if you follow a forest or people process platform product You've got to balance that, you know, it's not technology at at the most is 30% of the story And you if you don't have those other two things you're going to be spending a lot of time with technology Gathering information. You're never ever going to use but Sure Yeah, so I think this is not a complex in my opinion you first do the automation you bring crawl all the data You bring into the repository then after that you go with the community and figure it out what the What it needed, right? So the problem comes up here is adoption not many people are ready to put the tribal knowledge into it This is where the sophistication of tools comes in, right? So Imagine 10 years back Nobody was on tiktok. Nobody was on Facebook, you know Everybody used to call everybody and then the sophistication of the technology kaweb The tiktok people don't have to do anything. They just keep watching keep watching and then, you know They are like in getting in chain at the meantime. They're also generating some data So if the tools are sophisticated enough and they can provide you the ability so that users can very intelligently Give their info information to the tool. That's where the tools of the future of the tool is and this is where how you need to leverage your Audience or your users to kind of gap give this information to you If you keep it's just how we just put out of the tribal knowledge into the tool It's not going to work. You have to have some rewards and then you need to have a governance on top of that So other than the lot of the garbage in comes from the users as well You have the length of a state definition and you will get just different definitions But they they do not go to the detail in order to go to the detail You really need to go and figure it out a methodology that how would you go into detail? So it's a as you say that there's a people people is needed definitely But also the process to collect this information is important And that's where the the the data governance team and you guys are important to create and establish this process of collecting the metadata From user being the automation is very simple. You just connect and crawl it The only thing is that you are trying to most of the time organization They want to grab everything millions of object at one time and they have no way to collect the metadata information from other So focus on one department one domain collect the metadata from there And then try to get the value from that then things is going to work pretty well. That's what we have seen Yeah, I think there's so many problems. What are you gonna shake a stick at it all? I'll go back to the first thing you said about your your your onto something about people having a tendency to take a tools first approach You know what if we would be literal about it I don't mind people having the very idea of a tools first approach I like it that they they want to think of Trying to use a tool to do things at scale on an automated Basis part of that something a really big data company if we can't do something at scale then forget about it But I think I think the problem is the way that they go tools first So if it's just stumbling in to the first tool they see a demo of and they haven't really vetted it They haven't looked at the whole range of offerings on the market and that happens all the time in lots of organizations If they don't talk to anyone else in the organization You have somebody in this department not realizing that they're Acquiring a tool and paying money for it when someone else know the department already bought a tool last year that kind of does the same thing and So and it's how you organize the tools I have to confess that you know my garage at my house is Not one of those where the guy has the pegboards all labeled with the hooks and all the tool It's kind of a mess and I've I've done that do-it-yourself home project where I can't find that tool I know I have it and I've fallen to temptation I run to home depot I buy another one even knowing I already probably have three You know and they're in this mass and so That's what it looks like in our company with the software tools, right? So it's it's not that it's not that trying to use Tools as your first idea of how you're gonna scale something forward is a bad idea in itself it's the people's misbehavior about acquiring tools in a messy way and Storing in math, you know sort of maintaining and nurturing the tools in a messy way Yeah, well it to build on that that the kind of tool for a liberation to is like it may not be the exact same tool that you Already know you have but it can be this other tool that has this new feature And that's gonna be the thing that solves this problem for us this time Right and then and so you just end up with all these different tools and like like Tony mentioned in my bio I work for a large pharmaceutical organization now and we have all the tools it seems like it's just the problem becomes How do we use them in an effective coordinated way? And I want to mention to something that Shratt said really made me smile Is that whole notion of we used to call people on the phone and and now We're using tic-tac. We're using other messages, you know messaging after work let other email or whatever connected with each other I think about when my phone rings. I'm almost never going to answer it anymore It's my wife or Tony Shaw Everybody else Yeah, it'll go to voicemail and I'll get to it eventually but um So what I want to think is because we think about these tools, right? We we know there's some potential here and I think you know kind of articulated that very well There's potential in these tools. There's benefit in these tools. We have seen progress And I think that's an important statement to make but I kind of neglected early on But we know one thing is true. We are going to buy more tools There's going to be more tools even like Tim to your point even if we know we probably don't need another tool We're getting another tool sometime here. So as we look at the audiences We think about the folks here at dgiq that are influencing or making purchase decisions on these kinds of governance tools What advice do we have? for how to go about doing that and buying And investing in tools that will lead to The most benefit and then after this we'll kind of start talking about more features of tools Let's talk broadly. Hey to governance tools. How best to approach this kind of thing and I'll ask Tony To help this is volunteer basis. If you have something to say on the panel, um You know, please uh, please chime in Yeah, I can jump in As you're going through this when I when I'm out with a client and we're talking about, you know, what they're doing They'll immediately ask me. Okay. We'll show me your software and I never go there We we have to have a conversation about what you're trying to do in your governance program What type of quality problems you're facing? Why did you even bring me in here? And I I always make sure that I have this conversation before I go on site So that we can actually talk about things that are relative to this I strongly encourage anybody getting started looking at software to make a list of your priorities that you're trying to approach What what is priority one two three four all the way out? We always talk, you know start small and work your way up start with a line of business and go to the enterprise You know, however you want to do it But come up with that list of things so that when you bring in any of us that are in the in the room over there That you're bringing the right person to the table that can actually meet your needs today Going on down the road. Um, there's there's nothing worse than somebody coming in showing you a new pretty object That won't Satisfy your second or third project You know and we've got lots of different technologies there that will help in governance projects You need to make sure that you're getting the right one that'll satisfy your needs versus somebody else in the room Yeah, I will extend that further. So what is happening is that people are focusing too much on the problem right now They have it and they look for the tool which is solving the problem which is existing So when you get it up as the title, you know the silos of tool Which do not integrate with each other? So you need to look at the comprehensive strategy not only right now But maybe two three are down the line That how you are going to use your entire enterprise architecture And what is your big data strategy? What is your business strategy? How the data strategy is meeting with the business strategy? Understand that and then sell as well within the organization because I can guarantee you're right Maybe a lot of people we do not have a proper business proper business use case for your data So you're just creating a data platform Once you create that and you need to understand the problem You're going to happen one year down the line a two year down the line as well You need to know the list of those if you don't have it higher consultant higher people From this group or another a lot of people smart people here who will tell you these are the problems you're going to face Then make your list Existing problem right now. What is the future problem and then look for the tool which is kind of like comprehensive Otherwise you will get the silos of tools and there's too many tools And then you will not be able to integrate all these tools together and there is another problem you're going to face So that's the little two cents. I have it Isn't that a big corporate culture change for some organizations though? I mean, I don't know how many people here You're in an organization where almost All the employees can only think one quarter in advance Because that's how they're judged and incentivized and you know part of it's if you're a public company I've been in both private and public I'm in a pre-ipo company right now and I can just feel as we get close to going public This this time horizon shrinking down to more short term And people can only solve a problem. That's this court the current quarter or the next quarter And to do what folks like us want to do you've got to get this like three to five year Time horizon in in in front of people's minds, but Do the rest of you face that or how do you get how do you get your Your stakeholders to think of data governance as a long-term thing instead of just fixing the immediate pain point so I The struggle that I see with data governance A lot it's it's kind of the opposite of some of the other issues we have Everybody knows what data governance is Except almost nobody's definition of data governance matches like a A standard definition Right of somebody who works in data governance what their definition of data governance is so You know and everyone you know sort of whatever problem you have The answer is always oh well if we had a data governance program that would that would solve that problem Um, so we you know we start with well, what is the problem that the organization is actually trying to solve? that they're calling data governance and um, it and and what that what that really means to the organization May depend on the driver that that's that's causing this to be to come up, you know, maybe there's a compliance requirement that that that you need to meet or or there's some sort of data quality problem or Or You know you're trying to improve your the maturity of your data management. Hopefully but but then Then Very few people who haven't done it Actually knows what data governance looks like when it's walking around, right? They may they may know what You know potentially How to start? Right, um, but when but what's the target that you're trying to get to So and the answers to those questions as as you know what the the panel said Um really changes what the tools are that you're going to need and And and and how you're going to use them So I frequently, you know, it's like Start with excels excel and in SharePoint, right? Like start there in terms of tools and then Understand what you're actually trying to do so that you know if you do go out and buy a tool And and there's also some other kind of you know beginner very Very inexpensive tools that may be Closer to to actually data governance tools But then You know if you're going to go out and buy a tool And and make an investment Having more of a of a plan about what that means, right? Because I think we've all seen Where organizations will buy a tool and then Won't do anything with it and it'll just sit there Because there was no project to actually do anything with it So I want to make sure we have some time to talk about the specifics of the tools that are available to us So when I think data governance tools, I think in like a central core I think of a date the catalog plus some sort of workflow management routing type of thing That's my core of data governance and then on the periphery I see things like data quality tools and master data stuff and you've got you know other kinds of data Repositories you think about how we're operating on data or metadata. We talked about some of that stuff as well but a I'm curious whether the other panelists think of data governance tools when used in that kind of terminology fits and then second Is this the best we can do like is this enough or are we missing something fundamental? Or does the future just hold better data catalog better workflow management? Or is there something that will transform how we do data governance with the tooling? The that is to come so what do you guys think? I can start So what I see the The first part is that you know the what technology can do technology can At this point of time in the current point of time it can figure out it can crawl the metadata So what we're talking about the data catalog? It needs to be able to crawl all the metadata It should be able to figure out the lineage which is technical lineage where the data come from where it goes Right, that's that's the technology can do it It can Figure out just the profiling information. They know what exactly it should be. So it's you know statistics about the data It should be able to support as many data sources you have so that it can kind of crawl the data So that's the data cataloging aspect of that. That's the basic minimum you need In order to move further then you need a capability in different dimensions to improve the quality of the data to improve the literacy of the data to improve the quality of the metadata and then The third thing is needed the access, you know who can have access to what information so I generally have Three ways of looking at is one is the literacy which is like Enhancing the quality of the metadata Another one is the quality which is enhancing the quality of the data itself And the third one is access which is who should have access and the privacy compliance comes under access because that need to do it plus you also need a classification because You should be able to protect the data So you need a AI capabilities or some sort of a you know Some capability so that you can figure it out Which is the PII which is a PHI and how to control it. Who is the confidential information? So you need that kind of information And then most importantly you need tools and algorithms to find The processes to kind of improve your workflows So whatever the workflow you create People are not going to respond to that. That's human behavior like until unless you create something like tiktok you know, so how what are the different adoption tools you have in your Chest kind of tool chest which can keep improving this system, right? So that's the most importantly adoption and adoption is the layer which you need to think very creatively in that areas You know, if the sometime adoption is embedding within the existing tools, maybe you build the business glossary phenomenally Spend so much time, but nobody's using into it Right. What if you plug in that business glossary with the reports people are consuming those Now suddenly you say, oh, okay. I'm I'm looking at the report and then I'm looking at the beta And I exactly see that what is the definition of the beta is and what is this report a beta definition versus maybe some other reports Right. A beta is a very finalized terms. Everybody understand that but not Length of stay in hospital, right? So that's a different kind of Like terminology which you need to understand that so And then there is a operational aspect of that is also there some of the time that what are the tools you're supporting in the various Aspect of operationalization of those. So those are the Typical I see at the high level you need capabilities in this area of data governance Yeah, I'm I'm similar in that I see the data catalog is one of the foundational tools But I look at what comes after that a little bit differently Maybe it's because I've worked with content and media publishing kind of organizations A lot so for us one of the one of the very next things Actually is the metadata tools And and very rich because if we can't handle just immense amounts of content and understand how they interrelate Then we don't win and so metadata tools for us is very rich It means that we even use things like cognitive as an ontology tool taxonomy tools we have to be able to Collapse and view trees of taxonomy is really really well and and use that as a way of normalizing Thousands and thousands and thousands of tags And like you said earlier, you can't do all this manually So we need to also invoke AI to help us normalize the the system of of tags and that's just really foundational for us But taking a step back There are there are tools that should precede data governance that you should be able to take for granted And yet in a lot of organizations you can't Like data modeling should have already been done just by any company that has set up a database at all Right where you should have conceptual and logical and physical models of the data models And you should be able to hold those up and visualize them right next to your business process diagrams And see that they match like even even companies that haven't done data governance should have done that just by virtue of Being responsible people setting up a database and yet it's very common that organizations have Become completely dependent on databases without proper data modeling So sometimes you have to back up a step and And clean house there first with those with those with the data modeling tools of the organization I just want to add one other Concept here. How many in the room have heard the concept of a data fabric? Awesome To me that is one of the central things in fact We're going to actually be doing a presentation not technology oriented But a presentation about data fabrics later today And the point i'm bringing up about that was that everything that we're talking about in the data space whether it be Your data governance things your data quality components your integration your master data reference data This all needs to tie together so that you can actually get the true value out of this You don't want to buy technology To do these niche things unless they can do the niche things and tie to each other You know, so if you buy a catalog solution making sure that catalog solution works with your integration tools Or works with your bi tools or works with your data science organization Because your data is used everywhere in your organization your enterprise and you know and we can divine, you know The organization whether it be a line of business a geography the entire or your company for some of the really large companies Without having a concept of a fabric where your technologies talk to all your data ops work your your governance work that you're doing It's really a waste of time you need to make sure that this all works in harmony Or you're just spending a lot of money and technology that's going to fill fill a little niche for a very short period of time so If I can jump back in there just a second one of the eye-openers I have had from being at this conference is I didn't realize how Lucky I am to be the cto And be in charge of data governance because I have total veto power over any third-party tools anybody in the company buys And I have software engineers at my command Um, so I can eat so I can make the plug-ins. I I'm in it's my fault if we don't do the integrations correctly with the apis I can write my own etls with my team if I um if I want and at this point I would be scared of taking on data governance in any company if I didn't have veto power over third-party tool adoption I would I would I would be scared. I think that you need to have a big a big say in that I think if you can't maybe it's because I've been in companies with bad habits But I think if you if you can't if you can't have a big say in The selection and the setup of the tools you can't ever you can't ever tame that wild horse I just I want to add to that since you just mentioned that I was with a client It was probably about two years ago right before the pandemic and one of their it's a compilation of a lot of big companies One of the companies used one catalog solution another one used another one another one used the third I came in and they brought each of the vendors in to show why their solution was the best And instead we flipped the conversation and we talked about what they were really trying to do It's not whose technology is the best. It's whose technology solves the problem that you have And being able to have that beetle problem because I it's just there's nothing scarier than seeing a Small group and niche of the business buying something that doesn't hide everything else You need to make sure that your your stuff works together in harmony. So you're just not wasting time and money but That's a great point Matt and like there is no shortage of poorly used great technology out there Right like that is something that we need all of the time And I want to ask it because Tim's comment around having this ability and I think you're probably in the vast minority of People that get to do data governance and also have direct line of sight to the technology Program, I don't think that's the norm. So I want to flip that situation around 180 degrees because what I think is as more probably at least from my experience advantage point is People trying to do data governance that sit outside the IT organization driving this from the business And the IT organization isn't receptive to what is trying to be done and or at least isn't Excited and as collaborative about that as we might want them to be What do we do if they and then the IT organization who Inevitably carries a lot of weight with the technology and tools What do we do as a business-centric data governance person trying to influence A technology organization that may not be as receptive as we would like them to be with data governance So I will take that that I think there is a I have seen in our customer base at least half half The half of the time people buys that IT people is buying the data governance product and half of the people at the business side Is buying it and and and sometime the compliance is also buying as well So I think there is a compliance IT and business all three need to be on the table In order to make data governance successful If they both are if all three are not on the table There is a some sort of a lack that you're going to see in order to implementation I have seen IT projects IT driven data governance Misrively fail because there's no business stakeholder. So there's nobody is taking from the business side and I see from the business side I think april might be from the business side that she's saying Oh, we are having a hard time correcting the data and then getting the metadata out because there's no IT person Is actually involved in that process. So the business person is trying to do They don't know what the drivers are supposed to use and that's why you are having problem So the business IT and if possible compliance if all three together meet and to start the data governance program You have a you have a guaranteed win in that. Yes, since you just mentioned that I apologize for jumping in here But I just went through with a really really large telecommunications company where we went through a massive pc led by our poc rather Led by the it and we jumped through every possible hoop and showed exactly how the technology would satisfy it In our final presentations to the line of business They said absolutely not because that's not solving what our problem really is Our technology was the best in the market for what it wanted But the line of business said no you have to have everybody at the table You don't want to make them you don't want to waste your time. No none of us want to waste time anymore So you're making sure you get all three parts of the organization You know if you separate compliance from governance having everybody together so When I was consulting and setting up data governance programs for at as an employee of a consulting organization um, I Kept looking out because I would get on projects that were Driven from the business side. So they were they were business-driven data governance programs that they wanted to set up and You know, we were almost always successful Whereas the data governance programs that were driven from the it side were almost always not And it wasn't me that made the difference per se I think it's I think that that you really need the the drive to be coming from from the business perspective By the way, I've always been an IT. So I'm an IT person but but for data governance success I've seen that it requires A business-driven program to be successful. So, you know, if it can't be joined Right, then then I think that you need that that business driver To be to have a successful program That's great so in the interest of time so The last main question before hopefully we'll have a couple minutes for audience questions But I there's a question. I love to ask and I asked my tutorial earlier this week This question and and I think to preface it there's a General awareness that I would imagine some nodding heads in the room that we would say data governance is difficult under the best circumstances It's complex under the best circumstances. We'll take that as truth for the context of this question So the question I ask My tutorial in a lot of the classes, which leads to a little bit of an uncomfortable Response is what does wildly successful data governance look like? And so that's the question asked that and that can be difficult to answer I'm gonna ask you guys this is a keynote panel. You guys get the 400 level question, which is What does wildly successful data governance look like in 2026 or 2027 say five years from now And how is it different from today? We we don't do strategies at the five-year level anymore, anthony So You know, what is what is successful look like? I'm not sure that successful is going to look particularly different Right in the future than it does right now success means Um, you can you can find the data and you can get access to it in very short periods of time Appropriate access by the way So let me take that So I consider data governance as a defense While data science data engineering is offense of any any strategy, right? So the defense in the sense that like, uh, of course you need both pillar of of Any game, but we are playing here So the data governance the defense is good. That means that most of the time if the ball is in the offense side This is a good idea right if the ball is the defense side all the time that you don't want that to happen Right. So in order to the successful data governance program is actually Should feel like that that is nothing is happening there the most of the time the offense is working all the time but as as uh, apple said that that nice successful data governance program is Paint a picture you go to the google you search the data. Okay. I need my customer information you get it that is information right away And it has a phi information it also have some, uh, you know information and then you realize though, okay I have all the customer data, but there is a source of security number as well There's a salary information of employees as well But I need approval to see the social security number. I create I Put the button and the proper access management because I am not aligned to see it I got the permission. I got it and and then I was able to get the data, but I was not allowed to get the salary data That's fine. I was able to query the data and then we were to do it This whole part of the management aspect of this has been done and taken care of it when I say customer This actually is a customer when I say employee this actually is employee. There is only one customer information There is only one employee information There are not 50 different employee information And even in the my company right now if I if I have three systems The three system will show the different employee count, which is a pure information. I forget about IBM like I don't think they can even count the number of employees they have so Like so so and this is a true like You know the forget about the number of customers because that's in too many places like just the employee count is difficult So that's how what that successful data governance program should be and it's not that difficult to even even do it now but the most of the time what I see is that organization is focusing too much on the On the actually to do how's to do it right really going to the details But sometimes the people are either focused at the top level and sometimes people are focused at the bottom level There is a comprehensive approach of achieving this you required from the top to bottom approach So people should know and the strategy should also know how to implement it Right, so that's where is the missing gap I feel personally that in most of the time people I have seen the lot of experienced people here But they it seems like they're talking at the very top level But there is detail is missing sometime But when you tell the detail people then the strategy is missing So if you combine strategy through the detail, then you have a successful winning formula. That's personally, I feel I I want to jump in here. This is one of those cases where I have like a very clear strong opinion on this um, I I think I I'm really clear about what I think is the litmus test how you can tell if you're having a really successful data governance And it's where the word shows up. It's where you notice the word sharing up showing up And I can give you really concrete examples When you're having meetings if you start noticing meetings in the company and the meetings are not data governance meetings per se And you're hearing the word data governance come out of the mouths of people in those meetings who are not Data stewards are not officially part of the data governance program You're seeing that it's become a common vocabulary word across the vernacular of your organization You're having a really really good success Other places where the word should show up if you have and you should have a universal company onboarding like every new employee first day on the job Maybe first two days goes through hours of what isn't mentioned in there Is it mention how many times is it mentioned? It should be mentioned like a few times beginning middle and end of the onboarding process Not because you forced it but because the marketing department wouldn't even think of doing their 30 minute section of the onboarding without mentioning data governance somewhere When you see it showing up like that The other thing is in employee evaluations once a year twice a year You probably have a standard template tool for all the employees to be be reviewed This is whether they're going to get a promotion or not Are they other than the data governance program staff? Is data governance mentioned In the in the in the templated questions that the managers are setting up by which they're going to review all their employees Across most of the organization You can check how widely dispersed this word is coming up and when it's coming up in all those places You have a dynamite You know data governance program. I just want to leave you with nine words from my perspective Your governance program is successful if you know your data You can trust the data and you can use your data real simple It's all about the data knowing where it's at Can you actually trust the quality of it and are your consumers of that data satisfied? So nine words So in the interest of time, I think this is a great place to close I just want to thank all the panelists. Thank you Tony. Thank you all of the folks attending Hopefully you learned something today. I really appreciate the opportunity To be part of this. Thank you, Anthony