 Good morning. I'm Mark Plachon. Welcome to a discussion group on transportation and mobility and what's happening in autonomous, connected, electric and shared transportation. We have an amazing, exciting, super expert panel. So I won't spend too much time introducing this, but it feels, I mean, one, I think it's really appropriate to have a mobility panel at an energy conference. Mobility, of course, uses, I don't know, 30-odd percent of our energy. And as we're sitting here today, our friends in Washington are figuring out how many trillion dollars they want to spend fighting wars and keeping the Straits of Hormuz open so we can bring more oil in to run the cars that pretty soon won't need it. And that's an important part of changing the game. So the question is, who's got a calculator out? How many kilowatt hours of solar energy can you put in for the price of $100 million drone? At 30 cents a watt, right? You can put in 300 megawatts. You can basically put in a power plant equivalent with the price of one drone. So and the drones are disposable and solar plants last 50 years. So I'd love to see us sort of think about it that way. Of course, if you go fight a trillion, it's 20 million watts, 20 gigawatts, okay? I think we should do more of those. Who wants to do that? A dollar-a-watt utility scale. Yeah, exactly. Five dollars, yeah. Long time ago. Cool. All right, we solved that problem. So this week's been a little crazy. I've been at multiple mobility events kind of all over the place. So I got to tell you, I was actually, we were both at events some of the same places this week. I was speaking at an event at Dearborn Inn, which is Ford in Detroit, and I had 100 consultants to the auto industry and tier one suppliers to the auto industry. So I asked them my usual startup question, how many of you came here in an autonomous electric car? Of course, none. How many of you own an electric car? Yeah, it's about 50% here. In that 100 person group in Detroit, there was zero. I raised my hand. I raised my hand. You did, yes, but you weren't a Detroiter. Zero percent of the advisors and consultants to the auto industry even had a present-day car, much less a future car. And then I did the same thing at the big event over in the East Bay on Wednesday, and they had about 75% electric people because it was self-selected. It's kind of interesting. But then I went to an event, TechCrunch had a mobility event in the city, and they asked the question, who came in an autonomous electric car? And guess what? Breakthrough. There was one person who came in a cruise. Autonomous electric car. Now, the safety driver's still there. That's fine. It's gonna take a little while to get the safety drivers out. But we're gonna ask that question every few months, every year, and pretty soon more and more of you will be coming in an autonomous electric car that drops you off and goes off and does something else. So we're at the beginning of huge change, and it's pretty darned exciting. So we have a panel, and the order we're gonna go, I think, is Sarah, who's the market development guru at EVGO, is gonna talk a little more about the infrastructure problems and challenges and the charging network issues that they're dealing with. They're kind of the leaders in fast charging, high-power charging. Austin's gonna talk about the regulatory and policy side. He's the executive director of the UC Davis energy environment and economy or something like that. He's the guru on all things policy, and I think that's super important here to get these things rolled out. And then Regina collects all the data from the cities on how mobility services are working and massages that data and sells it back to everybody who needs it to either regulate, manage, grow, or serve those new mobility services. So it's a super important role in developing the data that allows all this to sort of get there. And we're gonna do really short presentations. They'll introduce what they do a little more and talk about those topics briefly, and then we're gonna open it up at the microphone and have Q&A and discussion and try to get a little friction going and a little heat and get some action. And Sarah, I think you're up. You can sit there and do it, or if you want to get up and move around, that's fine. I'll get up. Oh, I had one other factoid I'll throw out there, because those of us that are working on electrification and transportation, everybody's always asked, how much energy do you need? And do we have enough energy in the grid and all those kind of questions? But there was there was one question I didn't know the answer to. But we found that this week, the city of Shenzhen in China has pretty far electrified their whole transportation system. They have 16,000 electric buses. In Shenzhen, 36% of the entire electric load goes to transportation. 36% more than a third of all the energy used, and that's a big manufacturing city goes to transportation. So transportation that's electrified is is a opportunity and a challenge for the grid. But first we electrify the transportation, then then you clean up the grid. And they're doing a good job of that. We need to get there. All right. Hello. I am Sarah Oppison. This mic is a little tall for me. I lead public policy efforts at EVGO. We're the largest provider of fast charging infrastructure for electric vehicles. And this is actually my first time at Stanford. I live in Oakland, but my first time here. And I'm pleased so far because I got to drive in charge my car across the street. And then I saw an electric shuttle. So not a bad start. And just today I'm going to give a little bit of an overview on charging infrastructure. And also talk about some trends that we're seeing in the space here in California, but with kind of a national outlook. And I guess, can I see a show of hands? Again, how many people I don't want to just say own, but maybe also lease an electric car? Or drive one? Okay. And how many people have been in an electric ride share or car sharing vehicle, like an Uber or Lyft or a gig or a, okay, quite a lot. So we have a very educated population here. And I'm guessing that many of you then, if you have any of you, you've probably heard of EVGO. As I mentioned, we're the largest provider of public fast charging infrastructure and we're headquartered in LA. I'm based in Oakland, as I mentioned, and we're in about 34 states have about 1100 chargers, 250 or so more going in the ground. So by the end of the summer, this will say about 1350. And we're in 66 metropolitan markets. But while we're national, over half of our charging infrastructure is in California, and 75% of the electricity that we delivered. So the gigawatt hours that were charged on our network happened in California. So California really has an outsized impact just because of the really great public policy that we have here that encourages people to drive electric cars. And how many people feel like they understand the difference between level one, level two, and level three charging? Because when I started, I did not. Okay, so again, we have a very educated group here. I think the way that I would just phrase this for the other two thirds or so who aren't as familiar, which is very okay, is that as one of my co worker says it's not different strokes for difference but folks but different speeds for different needs, which I thought was very clever. But essentially level one is I go to my in-laws house in Alameda, and we're having a kid's birthday party. And then I go to the extension cord in their garage and I plug in. And then three hours later, I come out with a whopping how many extra miles on my car, do you think? Yeah, about 15, right? So that's not really a lot. It takes me about eight miles to get there. So not not quite a lot. But if you're somebody that has a garage at home, level one is perfect because you can do your commute and you can come home and you can plug in so it's it works in a lot of situations. Level two is what I used here across the street. So I get on my bolt about 25 miles added to my battery an hour or so just depending on the level of charge. And if I have to split that with somebody else who's plugged in. But I think longer dwell locations is how I like to think of this. So for example, as somebody who lives in an apartment, I'm very reliant on public charging. So now I only go to movie theaters where I can plug in my car because otherwise why go to that theater, you know, it's a waste can't get my electricity. So if I go to see an Avengers movie, which is a three hour movie, I get 75 miles, which is great. But I think level two is better for places you're going to be maybe four to eight hours or so a lot of they're very common at workplaces, for example. And I also like to plan my hikes around different state parks or what have you that have level two chargers. Again, these are things that you do once you have an EV you set up, you know, scrolling your phone late at night reading the New York Times or what have you you go on plug share and you plan out your life. It's it's a lot of fun. Level three is DC fast charging. That's primarily what we do. Though we do have about 1000 level two chargers as well. But fast charging is for short dwell time. So I was looking again, because this is what I like to do for fun at all the chargers we have in this area. And it's a lot of grocery stores, a lot of retail centers, because basically, you want to put a fast charger where you're going to be an hour or less. So and and I as somebody who doesn't have access to charging at home, I use fast chargers primarily for my needs because that's my fueling source. But we cite a lot at in addition to retail locations, also sometimes public parks. We have a few sites that we've opened there and other places where somebody can grab a bite to eat or shop and then come back in there. Their car has has added additional mileage. So because we're at an energy conference, I also wanted to mention some of the grid benefits of electric vehicles. And as Mark was saying, he's he's been on the conference circuit. I have to a lot. I was in road map this week, which is the one of the biggest EV conferences in the country and in Portland. And we were talking a lot about rates and grid benefits of electric vehicles. Something that's really interesting is that ride share and fleet drivers, which were about one third of the 75 million electric vehicle miles charged on our network. Last year, they without price signals are often charging during peak solar, which is really great when we think about how to manage the duck curve. And again, you can't really go to an energy conference in California without talking about the duck curve. But we sent this when we put together this data, we sent it to the Kaiso and they're they're very excited about this. But this is again without price signals today to those drivers. And how that happens is because ride share drivers in particular are wanting to drive during rush hour, because that's when a lot of people are out and hailing rides, they don't want to charge them, which is usually through the peak. So they're charging often and you can see it's not perfect toward the end of the day, but they're charging often during peak solar. I should also mention here that in addition to this, we did announce that our network went 100% renewable energy at the beginning of this year for California and then in May for the rest of us moving forward. The other thing too, this is an ICC study that came out and we're commissioning our own study with UCLA on this topic as well. But we have been focusing a lot on putting in fast chargers and high density areas where you have a lot of residents of multi-unit dwellings through a legacy arrangement that Eviko had with the CPUC. We tried to do a lot of level two make readies at apartments and found a lot of challenges with that dealing with anything from condo associations to for me, I can't ever charge at home because my parking is on an elevator shaft. So I call my car. It's very high tech in German and then it moves around and you can see I can't really plug in cords to a wall there. So there's a lot of reasons not just dealing with electricity why installing in multi-unit dwellings can be really challenging. So another compliment to actual installations at multi-unit dwellings is these fast chargers where several drivers from the community can charge on that charger throughout the day in addition to whoever is commuting or driving through. And I think last one thing that we talk about a lot in California and just generally across the country is there's a lot of discussions about equity. How can we make sure that we're not just enabling residents of detached or homes with garages, single family homes to have electric vehicles. How can we make sure that if you can't lease or purchase an EV maybe you can hail an electric car and get the exposure that way. So we have a really large focus on investing in low income communities and disadvantaged communities. So 55% of our sites under construction right now are in low income communities which often match well with that ride share profile or also the multi-unit dwelling residents that were often targeting for our charging. Here's just a couple of pictures. People get really excited when I tell them that Chevron stations people you know because we're that's a transition in the energy world but other than that happy to take questions once we get to the Q&A. Thanks. Hopefully not too distracting. I have no slides. I had slides earlier this week in a talk and I'm trying to hold myself to one PowerPoint per week because that's my new PowerPoint diet. Nobody has ever come up to me and said oh man I wish you'd had more slides. So it's also a bad habit of mine. I love graphs maybe more than I should and so I would if I have them I would be checking them up there. I will happily talk through some of the data I'm going to refer to you know during and after this if anybody has more questions or wants to go into it. So this is really just an amazing panel to get to be on. I'm several colleagues that I've really valued working with and I actually just met Mark earlier this week in Detroit at a different event. We had never crossed paths before and then now two and two in a week so the transportation world is maybe smaller than any of us like to think. I didn't ask for permission but I'm going to tell the rest of the story of his remarks where he asked who there was driving electric vehicle and sort of looked at this audience of Detroit automakers and parts manufacturers and consultants and saw that none of them had it and said something I'm going to paraphrase that just immediately won me over. He said well how are you guys going to build the future of transportation if you're not even participating in it. Unapologetic so that's just great right and I mean it is something that we should be asking that why aren't we seeing more from the companies that have built our auto fleet so far but that's you know maybe neither here nor there. I'm actually going to talk today about the policy environment that these new technologies that we're talking about automation, electric vehicles, mobility as a service, the policy environment that they're entering and what sort of keeps me up at night about where these technologies might go and then I'll end with a couple of the techniques and policies that cities especially in states as well are thinking about to try to avoid some of the unintended consequences that the research community is now identifying. So it's tough to envision these consequences of technologies like automation because they're not really out there yet right so we're just seeing demonstrations we're seeing a few business models that are starting to get on to the road with safety drivers for the most part. We don't really see yet what this electric automated vehicle that Mark talked about really looks like so we have to sort of do some creative thinking, some analysis and use that to try to tell us well what are these technologies actually going to look like in the future and then what do we foresee as unintended consequences and if those look problematic what can we potentially do right now to help head those unintended consequences off and it's extra tough because in the research community most of us really recognize the value of these things so we're not saying oh no don't do it we're not like oh don't deploy these vehicles don't deploy these technologies. The right question though is how do we both encourage them and foster a positive market for these technologies but also steer them to provide the benefits and avoid the negative unintended consequences of which there are quite a few and I'll talk about I'm talking about an example of that and then one other aspect of this that we're always thinking about the role of policy is to help enhance choice and transportation so too often we think about policies restricting choice as saying no you can't do that or you'll pay to do that but the environment we exist in today largely is really a car monoculture there's not really a choice outside of driving yourself every day in most of the United States there's a few cities where you really have a robust set of transportation options but in most places if you want to do anything other than own and drive your own personal vehicle it's just prohibitively difficult and in many cases prohibitively expensive so I'll be thinking about the role of policy as enhancing choices and then steering towards steering towards benefits so we have a lot of research out there that shows this huge range of possible impacts and you might think well we know that these vehicles are going to be electric so they're clearly reduced emissions we don't I don't think we know that yet I think there's a lot of reasons to think that automated vehicles could be electric and plenty of reasons to think that they might not be electric right so automated electric vehicles take time to recharge even if it's getting faster and if you're if you own a fleet of automated vehicles and you're renting this out for people to take trips in you're going to want to have that fleet of probably very expensive vehicles operating as as rapidly as possible and we also might see a shift towards larger and larger vehicles some of the demonstration models out there for potential automated vehicles look more like mobile living rooms than anything else and those larger vehicles might prove more challenging or more expensive to electrify than some of the sort of smaller vehicles that we sort of assumed might be the early outcomes of these automated vehicles right but why would we actually go to that the policy environment right now doesn't favor smaller vehicles really in in any way so why would we expect that that that the automakers will build tiny little vehicles and try to get people into those when we know that many and maybe most Americans vastly prefer to ride around in a large a large comfortable vehicle so we can't just assume that the thing that we want to happen from a energy from an emissions from an environment perspective is the natural outcome so we see we've done you know years and years now research looking at what are all the possible impacts we're all the possible energy implications of these automation technologies and it depends completely on the business model and how these technologies evolve my colleague so I was previously with the department of energy in the national renewable energy lab and we did analyses that have continued that show an enormous range of possible impacts on energy use so so big that we don't even not know the impact we don't even know the sign of the impact we don't know is this going to increase energy use or is this going to decrease energy use but one of the I could talk about one or two sort of big picture fork points that really seem to influence where this goes from energy perspective so probably the biggest one is do people own a self-driving car themselves and keep it in their driveway so that it takes them to work every day or takes them to their destination every day and potentially you know goes and parks somewhere or drives around circling waiting for that waiting to pick them up or do people subscribe to shared mobility as a service models where rather than own the vehicle themselves they're just using a vehicle maybe in combination with microtransit and transit and other modes as sort of an integrated service and in that case you probably reduce your total travel demand you might increase your mobility and access but reduce your need to drive every day so that really looks like a big bifurcation point and right now we just I don't think we know which way that market is going to go we see right now a lot of the vehicles are being talked about as being sold into big fleets but automakers will certainly want to produce and sell the vehicle that people want to buy and so if you have more and more people owning these vehicles then they don't mind living further and further from work I woke up in Davis this morning so I took a train and then a lift to get here it's two and a half hours I wouldn't want to do it every day but if it was in my comfortable mobile living room then maybe I wouldn't mind doing that so much and we already as you know in the Bay Area see so-called super commuters who are forced to do that and drive their own vehicle so we know that this is a real possible outcome so when we're trying to figure out okay so which business model there is going to win out we started new research now looking at the costs because that's going to underpin a lot of these choices right people buy and large make their decisions if not only based on cost at least very largely based on cost so as a bit of context right now if you want to own and operate your own vehicle just the normal thing you own a car you drive a car cost something like 50 cents a mile and that's including all of the things that you spend on your car you bought it you might have an auto loan I might lease it you pay for fuel you pay for maintenance you pay for insurance you pay to park you pay for tolls all these things together it depends a little bit on the vehicle something like 50 cents a mile just a reference point if you instead use a service like Lyft or Uber to get around it averages something like two dollars and 50 cents a mile so about five times as expensive per mile it's a lot more and yet we've still even with that price seen the so-called transportation network companies grow to really a substantial share you know approaching one percent of all trips which may not sound like a lot but that's getting to be about as many about same percentages as all bus rides in the United States so we've seen with it this much higher cost because of the convenience and the access and the preference for avoiding paying for expensive parking and all these other great things about those services it's already become a super important mode so what happens when you take that driver cost out so we have some early analysis that really makes it look like the cost of that service whether it's your own vehicle that you own or a vehicle that you subscribe to could drop down well under 50 cents a mile and could be a much cheaper form of travel which sounds great there's nothing wrong intrinsically with the idea of more travel but more vmt in a policy environment that doesn't more vehicle miles travel in a policy environment that doesn't capture the externalities like emissions and like the cost of traffic looks like a potential disaster so if you just basically drop this technology which reduces costs so dramatically into its existing policy environment you expect some of these really challenging unexpected unintended consequences that we're that we're trying to look at so cities are really thinking about this now I think cities are really the most promising agent of change to try to take this stuff on we're seeing a bunch of policies I'll mention six categories of policies really briefly two of which we're hearing about from our from our other speakers and then four others that I'm happy to talk about in a little bit more detail so one is infrastructure Robin Chase who founded Zipcar and is really active and a great big thinker on this likes to say infrastructure is destiny right so we tend to adapt our transportation system to the infrastructure we built so if cities go out and produce electric vehicle charging infrastructure they fund it they make sure it's cited well then it can support an electric vehicle transition another sort of piece of infrastructure that's maybe even more fundamental is just gathering managing and analyzing the data to understand how these new mobility modes are actually affecting the city right now and into the future and we'll hear much more from Regina who's a world expert on on those topics we also see that cities are considering policies that would help preferentially enable the kinds of business models that improve their transportation system rather than causing challenges so trying to incentivize pooling and shared use of mobility modes where you actually put more than one rider in a vehicle that wouldn't have been traveling together so that can be done through preferential access to curbs where you say you're allowed to use this curb if you have this pooled model or via pricing mechanisms so saying well we're going to set our fees for riding in Uber and Lyft based on whether or not you're pooling and try to come up with a good way to price differentiate those those modes cities are grappling with how transit how the future of transit intersects with these modes right now we don't know whether Uber and Lyft in the future are going to supplant and replace transit to the detriment of equity and other benefits whether it's going to enhance transit by letting people get to and from stations or whether it's going to become transit whether transit agencies will actually use these services to provide some of their some of their actual service all three of those things are possibilities right now and happening to different extents in different markets and then lastly cities are looking now at well if we've got a congested and a polluted center city region like we do pretty much the whole bay area like we do in New York City and Washington DC and many of our other major cities and increasingly even in cities like Sacramento maybe we have to say if you're going to drive in a single occupant vehicle down to the downtown you have to pay for that privilege London does that right now so does Singapore and some parts of Sweden so this obviously creates challenges around equity you can't just say hey pay to get access and just figure it out because that would impact the people who can least afford it but there are ways to figure this out and say well maybe we can use that money we raise and reinvest in transit reinvest in bicycling and pedestrian infrastructure to help make sure that everybody can get access to these center city regions so cities are looking at lots of great and appealing policies none of them are going to be easy the ones that have the most potential appeal and benefit from a policy analysis perspective are always the ones that are going to be the hardest politically so we're going to have a really tough road but it's really encouraging to see that so many cities are looking at these technologies recognizing the opportunity and then also being clear eyed about the potential front and the consequences so thank you very much and I look forward to the discussion to be here all these slides are getting set up here to be back and now I'm the CEO and co-founder of Populous and what we are building is a data platform to help cities and public agencies really steer progress towards these positive outcomes that we all want with mobility as a service so I'm going to focus my slides on really providing a framework for thinking about shared mobility as a service and how we're transitioning towards really a paradigm of transportation as an object that you own in the form of a car to transportation as a bundle of services that you purchase and may include a variety of options including cars, bikes, or trains so what we've really seen over the last almost 20 years now is a really rapid transition towards a variety of models that deliver mobility as a service from early models of car sharing such as zip car and city car share Uber and Lyft really transformed the space by delivering rides instead of offering you a car that you would borrow and typically had to pick up and drop off at the same point there are new models of car sharing that also were introduced that were free-floating and a little bit more flexible where you could pick up a vehicle in one location and drop it off in another location in a city and then in 2017 and 2018 in particular we saw the rapid rise of micro mobility or shared bikes and scooters primarily scooters that have kind of taken the world by storm so out of curiosity how many of you guys have ridden in a shared electric vehicle what was that number again a shared electric vehicle so in an Uber or a Lyft and how many of you have tried a shared scooter so almost the same number so it's pretty fascinating I think there are probably in many dense urban areas almost as many people who have used a small electric vehicle like a bike or a scooter as have ridden in a shared car that's electric so the adoption of new mobility services is rapidly accelerating we produced a report called the micro mobility revolution last July in the midst of the scooter craze and what we were finding is that adoption of electric scooters was actually on a very steep trajectory as fast if not faster in growth than right hailing services before them and there are a number of factors that have led to that growth one is that believe it or not smartphone adoption when Uber and Lyft were introduced was about 35% in the United States and GPS enabled smartphone adoption is over 80% in most major metros where these services were introduced traffic in many major cities is getting worse and it's actually faster to bike or scooter trips that are three miles or less which is the sweet spot for small shared electric mobility and then finally there have been large amounts of venture capital dollars that have been poured into accelerating the micro mobility revolution and so we're seeing scooters in over at least 180 cities in the world and that's in basically one year so one key question in this mobility as a service paradigm is who owns the consumer and I'd like to suggest that there are kind of two key models that have emerged an older model that actually a company that I left Stanford to join called ride scout which became movable through an acquisition by Daimler was really focused on integrating different mobility services shared cars shared bikes transit all into one third party app so Google Maps it could be an example of this their apps like transit and city mapper that aggregate multiple options but most of them don't actually deliver the services themselves they really just present the information and maybe allow you to book and pay for those services through one app on your phone but what we've seen I think in particular over the last 18 months is more and more consolidation by mobility operators themselves who want to own that consumer and so they are becoming full-stack providers as I like to describe it you have uber which purchased a bike sharing company called jump and now is starting to integrate transit into their solution you've lift which also purchased a bike share company called motivate which is in most of the major U.S. cities in the United States including New York City bike what was called Ford bike in San Francisco Bay Area and others and are trying to integrate bundle those services themselves bird just in the last week bought a company called scoot which offers mopeds and then Lyme introduced car sharing so these are two key models I think that there was a third model which is that cities would own that consumer my personal take is that a lot of the experiments that cities were developing to try to integrate and develop apps that they themselves delivered to their citizens most of those didn't really pan out they didn't see a lot of great adoption by users and so that is a third model we haven't really seen it emerge as particularly successful yet so Austin provided great overview of the key issues around energy and how did the different lovers towards shared autonomous and electric mobility how can they shape whether or not we see really positive energy and emissions outcomes or negative ones and one of the things that I was really focused on as a researcher here at Stanford was understanding what are the behavioral impacts of these new mobility services so I produced a number of reports that took representative data in major metros where I asked people for that last Uber lift trip what would you have done otherwise and so looking at some of the key stats one thing that's very interesting is two years ago I produced a report that showed that approximately 35% of people in the Bay Area were using services like Uber and Lyft now that number is probably well over 50% this is based on data from the end of last year and that number is high in most major US metros of those individuals in the Bay Area 21% have gotten rid of decided not to purchase a car or never had a car to begin with so one of the key lovers of shared mobility services is getting people to get rid of their own vehicles that they own and we're seeing that happen in many major metros and the numbers are quite high here in the Bay Area however another key behavioral impact is what people are making their trips in so there's the issue of who owns the vehicle but if there are as many miles on the road because you've given up a vehicle but you're making just as many trips in an Uber or Lyft you're still going to see lots of impact in terms of traffic miles energy use and potentially emissions depending on what those vehicles are powered by so another key question is what are people substituting these trips for and are they generating new trips and what my research previously had shown is that over 60% of trips nationally would have been made by biking, walking, public transit or wouldn't have been made at all so that's a pretty large number and with that sort of behavioral change we would likely see more vehicle miles on the road more energy use and potentially more emissions so cities are incredibly important and the public sector as a whole in order to steer progress towards public goals private sector companies for which I network for one aren't motivated by public goals they're not measured by those public goals and so cities really need access to data and information in order to ensure that we are making progress towards energy goals environmental goals equity goals and then also to ensure that we're seeing efficient forms of transportation by way of reducing traffic so cities now in the United States and around the world are starting to say to new ability service providers that are arriving you need to give me data show me the data and so they're starting to ask for real-time data from these mobility services today we're seeing that happen at a very rapid scale with dockless bikes and scooters so that they can monitor those fleets a very common policy in many major U.S. cities is to cap the number of vehicles so if you're a scooter operator and you arrive in Chicago Chicago might say bird, lime, Uber, Lyft you each get 250 scooters that's pretty standard policy today but if you had a certain utilization rate of say four rides per day we'll let you increase your fleet next month they're also starting to make more data-driven policies so the flexible vehicle cap by way of measuring utilization and then also putting in place requirements around the equitable distribution of those vehicles and a lot of this is really a sandbox for everything that's to come so that includes expanding to ride-hailing services car sharing services autonomous vehicles delivery robots pogo sticks whatever arrives on their streets in the future so our platform ingests data securely and aggregates it and anonymizes it to deliver it to cities to make informed decisions one key example is identifying parking hot spots so we work with Arlington County just outside of DC as well as 40 other cities to help them use this data to identify potential parking areas in our platform they can design, communicate and monitor new parking infrastructure and again this is for bikes and scooters but we also are the only platform that does this for cars as well so here you can see a city of Arlington has designed parking hot spots for scooters and then they've communicated that to operators and those operators including lime, bird and spin now tell their users here's the designated parking spot please use it some cities are also using in addition to carrots they're using sticks so they're finding operators if they have no parking areas one example is Arlington is home to the Pentagon don't really want a lot of scooters in the Pentagon and so there are also means to disincentivize people from using particular areas but really the key opportunity with data is that infrastructure is destiny if we make space for more sustainable modes including electric vehicles and smaller electric vehicles and bikes then more people will use them we're seeing that happen in major cities now that they've accessed a bike and scooter data they're actually carving out space including parking so here's a parking spot near a transit center on street they've removed one car from and put in place 15 bikes and scooters and so there are these designated areas that are popping up in cities around the world now that they know that there are lots of people who actually are really attracted to using these small micromobility devices and are making space for them to operate safely and efficiently and sustainably so I think that there are a lot of huge opportunities in the road ahead as I mentioned a lot of cities are thinking about bikes and scooters as a sandbox to plan for the future here in Seattle we are ingesting real-time data from car sharing fleets to help them manage efficient curbside management and price for that space and pricing is one of a number of policy lovers that cities can use to make sure that we're steering this transformation towards our positive energy and climate goals thank you very much fantastic thank you all that was awesome anybody that has a question there's a microphone right up here in the middle aisle if you want to instigate and provoke something in interesting discussion please come on up okay so I was wondering if any of you are involved in assemblymen filtering finally in directionally got money to really study EV usage in the state and how to get the state prepared for that as we go forward are any of you involved in that effort and helping with the studies that are going to evolve out of that I've been following that bill and then the language in the budget a little bit it doesn't so the study I think you're talking about it leaves it up to the CalEPA or probably the air resources board to decide how to conduct that study so UC Davis works with them on a lot of different topics and we'll certainly be discussing how to go about that so for everyone else so there was a bill that's gone through a couple of iterations led by assemblymen filtering San Francisco looking at how to study transitions to a fully electric like duty fleet in California so are there pathways to get to where every single vehicle sold some of the bills had a 2040 timeframe written into them which is pretty soon to get to all electric sales and that is now looking like it's the language in the budget will be turned into a study via the probably the air resources board to figure it out well what would that actually look like so it's definitely something we're watching closely that's studies for the future is my personal favorite topic and my absolute top so we're looking at it but I don't think we know you know it's not even signed by the governor yet right so it'll depend on right he had to go about it in an indirect way because of Frazier and the transportation committee so anything you guys can do to help incentivize the state or help push legislation because there are trying there are people who are trying from that that level down thanks thanks hi I'm Angela Chong from every have a quick clarifying question for Regina and then one for Sarah how do you differentiate between shared like e-bikes and rented rentals of e-bikes just a clarifying question the difference so I think we tend to use the term shared for fleets that are permitted with shared bikes that operators like bird and lime are deploying they tend to be under a permit model where individuals use an app and they're distributed across the city the city knows they're distributed across the city whereas I think the vast majority of rental so let's say tourist oriented bike share rental tends to be picked up and dropped off in the same location okay thank you and Sarah I was wondering have you approach large like conconference like McDonald's or even public libraries every city has practically a library about installing the fast charging or even level two charging infrastructure at all of their locations and if so what are some of the pendants barriers sure so we have MSAs or master service agreements with a lot of major retailers and restaurant chains etc and basically the way that we approach it is when we're going into a new market so we go to them and we say hey you've worked with us in this state let's go here next because the rates make sense the utility rates which is something that I could talk about for another three hours but if anyone wants to get wonky with me later happy to talk offline but uh you know how do we what public funding is available how well is the utility staff to handle these things like that so we do a lot of market selection and we work with a lot of those those companies and across multiple geographies so examples of that would be you know Whole Foods Walmart I think we actually do have a site at a public library nearby here but we're not really doing level two for our public installations at public properties what we have found is that they frankly just take a lot longer to get done so we we partner with a lot of cities maybe 25 or 26 cities or so in California we've worked directly with on whether it's a we're actually we're having a ribbon cutting on Saturday in Richmond at Civic Center there that would be a really great example of a project that we got done there but we work a lot with cities those projects happen they sometimes take longer just because of the number of stakeholders that you have to involve but really we work with private or public partners have you approached like chains like McDonald's and what are some of the impediments of having a fast charger at every McDonald's yeah so drive through chargers yeah no I think there are some we I mean I don't I mean McDonald's I don't I don't think we have any chargers at at McDonald's but I think we have chargers at other retail locations for example I think one of the impediments is I wouldn't even phrase it that way because I think the impediment is how do you get somebody interested in citing a charger there right and actually a great study from UC Davis shows that there is incremental revenue that's driven to the cash register when somebody has a charger and again take me I live in an apartment I'm one of those people so I really only go to places now and spend my dollars in places that I can charge my car because I'm just trying to get any miles I can get because I can't charge at home right so you really do change your behavior a lot so a lot of providers that we work with are very motivated by the the driving the argument of fast chargers drive revenue to the cash register right because if you're only there for an hour you can turn over the parking spot very quickly with a fast charger so that's that's definitely one of the benefits thank you hi this was a great panel I'm Jane from health improvement program and I am the manager of environmental behavior change my trainings in behavioral science and I'm really impressed with how we can help people just continue to make these changes couple things one is city of Palo Alto just recently created a whole program for multi-unit dwellings and charging and so you might connect with them they just they're just about to release it in our department we teach classes on electric vehicles we have a climate change class coming up and I also do something called active transportation counseling so I'm wondering to Regina when you mentioned all this use of uber and Lyft I'm so concerned that those are mostly gas cards a lot of times so how do we incentivize people to not use so many of those gas cars and try to get some of our EV owners to you know volunteer their cars in those services and also how are you using behavioral science to help people change behavior yeah that's a great question and I bet Austin can weigh in on this as well but there is a skinner bill in California which is looking at how we incentivize more EV and more energy efficient modes into fleets so that's uber and Lyft it's basically an uber and Lyft efficiency bill and they can also count some of these newer services because they've acquired bike share and started scooter share they can use those as credits towards improving the efficiency of their rides it's a complex bill and the analysis I think will also be quite complex but it is addressing that very issue of ensuring that we have as many trips as possible in the most carbon efficient mode whether it's a bike or scooter or an EV so that's happening on the policy side which is great and I hope we see more of that elsewhere outside of California and then on the behavior side you know I think that people tend to gravitate towards what's convenient and easy to use I think one of the really exciting things about the introduction of scooters is that people seem to like them and are starting to demand more bike lanes in their cities in you know Europe I think most people cite you know Amsterdam as the bike capital of the world and there was a revolution that occurred when I think it was originally when cars were introduced there were a lot of children who were dying on streets that were being hit by cars and that was there's a huge campaign to redesign their cities to prioritize pedestrians and biking most other countries didn't have that transformational moment and for us in the US it seems to be the introduction of scooters so I'm really optimistic about that and I'll just add to the the bill that Regina is referencing that was signed last year is SB 1014 and that bill requires the transportation networking companies to submit greenhouse gas reduction plans and there's a stakeholder process that that's being run by the air resources board to implement that we partner with Lyft actually in Atlanta and Seattle they have their and now Portland too they have their green mode product where essentially through their express drive program they can lease vehicles to EV or to drivers that want to drive EVs and then they help them with the charging as part of that and another really important partner that we have is Maven so Maven is GM's car sharing program and what they do is they lease vehicles too to any member of the gig economy and you can drive for any app so it doesn't have to just be a specific you know if you're renting from left you have to you know drive on Lyft but if you're renting from Maven you can drive for Instacart, Grubhub any gig economy job and we work with them in a number of different cities across the country and they're a commonly used platform for Uber and Lyft drivers beautiful and I know the air board has given a grant low carbon fuel standards grant that has helped us give EV classes for free with partnering with the city so the air board's doing some good stuff thank you so much thanks there I mean pre-call Institute of Energy Stanford University and thank you everybody and it's a great panel so the question is to Sarah EV Gold basically I really like the graphic you show here describe how the EV can help on the dark curve and when we produce solar energy and but this is the best scenario let everybody think about the worst case which is we have 5 million electrical vehicle by 2030 everybody charge when they back home or maybe in Stanford campus because after 4 p.m it's half price if you charge EV here okay then 5 million EV charge in the late afternoon okay at level two which is 6 kilowatt 6 kilowatt 5 million which is 30 gigawatt load the peak load today for California is 30 is 29 gigawatt which is add extra burden on the capacity of the grid because if we think about another case which is ramping curve from 6 p.m to 9 p.m California predict which is a 13 gigawatt ramping events have been 3 hours right so my question is how the you know the charging network company can work with the utility to design the incentive to the drivers to charge at the right time right location or by the way we'll only have a charger point here I want to see more EV goals well and I think too I will just say that different speeds for different needs so if there's a site here in Stanford that it makes sense for somebody to charge for an hour or less you know we happy to put an EV go charger here but I would say having a level two charger here I think makes a lot of sense because I would have had to move my car already walk over there in my heels and come back so I think there's you know different speeds for different needs longer dual times good for level two but I in regards to your question so the way that this is being discussed right now there's a lot of discussion on vehicle vehicle to grid integration and the discussion is very different for level two and DC fast so level two is there's a lot of rates that the utilities are designing EV rates there's also a lot of discussion about managed charging which maybe I can let Austin talk a little bit about from the level two side but basically if somebody's going to be plugged in for a really long time or if people are going to get home and then plug in their cars how do they make sure that not everybody's charging during peak and that can be problematic so there's a number of discussions on that happening at the CPC and many other places there's this big omnibus transportation proceeding happening I think they just named it drive or something I don't know all the names of these things sound alike but they're coming out with a study on that in October and there's going to be a big stakeholder process for fast charging I think a lot of it comes down to rate design as well so TOU rates we don't have them everywhere but also I think what we try to do is balance consumer experience with grid benefits because we can't tell somebody if they want to plug in at six o'clock and they're commuting home and running on empty like oh can you wait a few hours just sit here and wait a few hours you know that's a fuel security issue and that will turn people off from EVs so whatever price signals that we're discussing internally we talk about how do we balance the consumer side of that as well but I think it's very different for level 2 and DC fast and there's certainly a lot of attention here on the space in this space I agree I have maybe a quiz question I think we'll drive this home actually so this is and it's based on as far as I know unpublished data so there's no reason anybody in this room would know the answer and I certainly would have gotten this wrong when I first would have if you'd ask me three weeks ago so of the 24 hours in the day what do you think is the most common time for people to start charging an electric vehicle 5 p.m. 6 p.m. and other guesses sensible guesses so this includes home charging this includes people charging when they get to work all level one and level two together most common time I still haven't heard the right answer 8 a.m. so 8 a.m. when people get to work is another good guess there's little peaks at all these times still not right 8 p.m. so why 8 p.m. this is getting closer so why else maybe 8 p.m. who else is in PG&E territory so night does turn out to be most common and 8 p.m. is getting close but it's not quite right so what changes at 8 p.m. yeah so midnight is actually turns out to be the right answer and that shocked me so I would have guessed more like 6 p.m. when people get home or 8 p.m. because at 8 p.m. the rates drop for most people so depending on what rate what program you're on your rates may drop at 7 or 8 p.m. it varies by utility and by rate structure so you'd say well people would want to start charging at 8 but that's not what they do they set their car to charge itself overnight and then plug it in and the default setting is midnight that's a problem it's not a problem right now when you have a couple hundred thousand vehicles it's going to be a problem right so the right way to do it is to say okay if you just want to have a charge overnight then the utility can tell me when it's actually the best to use that and I'll get a discount for that and these are the sorts of things that PUC is figuring out so the good news is people are being price responsive the bad news is they're doing it in a very dumb way and it's enabled by the poor state of our technology and there's no good rate structures so yeah I think we can get there but it's going to take better rate structures better technology none of these things are big leaps it's just to have to get it right thank you thanks Hi I'm Jenelle London with Kultura a non-profit working to phase out gasoline vehicles as quickly as possible and I have a question about signage so for the people who already have an EV they have an app and they can find where are the charging stations very easily the people that you know 90 percent of people in the California who don't have an EV are making a decision and having a perception about whether there's enough charging to get an EV and they're not seeing any signage and I will say even if you do own an EV and it's nighttime and you decide you're going to charge at the BART station and your app tells you kind of generally where there might be a charger it's darn hard to find the thing so I wonder what is there anything in the works to mandate freeway exit signs I mean this is more again for perception because people who don't own EVs yet don't realize you mainly charge at home but to give them that comfort level that perception that charging is everywhere is there any progress towards highway exit signs or wayfinding signs in cities or even like a bright pink thing that sticks up above the charger when you're at that BART station at night trying to find the darn thing do you want to talk about states and I can talk about signage sure go well I guess I can say from our perspective something that we started to do at a lot of our stations is point out where they're gonna be so it'll say EV go charger here and then people can drive around the other thing too is that there are several states that through their department of transportation you can submit an additional application to just like on those signs that say I guess I'll pick your favorite fast food McDonald's right there's there's a sign that says like diesel gas and then now they're putting EV signs so I think we're definitely getting there something that I there you go something that I think that I always encourage people to do when they're thinking about getting an electric vehicle is plug share which I know is an app too and in different signage but plug share is sort of like the yelp for EV charging and what I do again this is because I you know I'm a geek on this stuff but when I go travel places that have a lot lower EV penetration like North Carolina which is where I grew up I just look on my phone on plug share at what chargers are around and you realize there are so many more than you ever thought right so I think that that comfort is there but I think that's a good point people aren't always looking at the apps but DOTs are working on it I don't think there's state mandates necessarily but there's ways to apply depending on the state I actually think we have further to go than that and I think that we're actually I think signs are actually this is so we're now in Austin's hunch territory so this but I'll talk a little bit about why I think this so I think that signs are actually the wrong way to go there are highway ones we've got standard signs now that's great except it's a lot harder to find that than a gas station right when you get off you see the big gas station sign and I don't think the right way to go is to put up huge signs that just but I agree with you completely that it's a problem if you we looked at so some of our researchers in the plug and hybrid electric vehicle center surveyed people between 2014 and 2017 an awareness of the presence of a charging station have you seen an electric vehicle charging station had not budged in those three years while we nearly doubled the amount of infrastructure available so there's awareness is a huge problem I think the the the key is in the app space and while I love and appreciate plug share it relies on crowdsourcing in a way that I don't think scales so to me the answer is let's just actually get the data out there in in in publicly available API as application programming interfaces where any app can go and grab the data and recombine it however they want so we're seeing some progress so Google Maps finally added a reasonably high quality database of ev charging stations that now pulls from ev go and and and charge point and some of the other major providers but it doesn't yet tell you is it in use it doesn't tell you how much is it cost it doesn't tell you I think it does tell you if it's in use okay I know they were gonna add that so they add it I think so okay so they're adding in more and more of the data that you'd want but it doesn't yet let you for example make a reservation so the way it should work in the future is I just tell Google Maps where I want to go and it knows my state of charge and it tells me where I can stop to charge that's close by to a Starbucks or a Pete's because it knows I like Pete's better and then it makes a reservation for me at the time I'm gonna get there and none of the stuff is rocket science like apps do this in others other areas all the time and then it doesn't just have an address it has an actual lat-lawn that that shows me exactly where the station is all of this can happen if we get it so that the data is available and in a standard format this is like maybe the one thing if I could wave one one would be let's get EV infrastructure in a standard format from all providers available so we don't have to rely on plug-share which is people going and saying oh I went and it was broken and I love that people do that and the EV community is wonderful because people are looking out for each other but it doesn't scale because not everybody will do that so that's my that's my rant yeah I'm gonna suggest that that problem you know needs to be solved as you say the awareness is terrible but remember the only company selling a car where they really wanted to sell it was Tesla all the others begrudgingly had a ZEV car and didn't want anybody to buy it so they designed it to be ugly and then they hit it in the back and didn't train their salesmen now that the Jaguar is coming out the Porsche is coming out the Audi is coming out and a lot of other 48 new battery electric models are coming out that the car companies do want to sell they will finally start to train their sales forces they will put signage in the dealerships and the real issue is as you're saying you need awareness that this car is going to work for me and that's a decision you make at the point of purchasing or leasing or or deciding what to buy and so a lot of that education burden I think will fortunately be carried by the guys who want to sell those things and and yeah governments should be involved and non-profits should be involved but the only way to really do it at scale is that the auto companies just do it yeah I think they will yeah everything you guys are saying is right I'm still concerned about the 90% that aren't even considering an EV because they haven't seen those exit signs and I don't care if they're written on paper plates for now just stick them up there somebody needs to do a study let's see if it changes the mentality of people who aren't even thinking about EVs you know when there's an electric pickup truck an F-150 Ford will make sure you know where the chargers are I hope so yeah thank you thanks and we're running out of time here folks we've kept you 10 minutes longer I wish we had more time for questions all right why don't we take one last question and I'm happy to stick around too if people want to talk yeah okay thank you for this great panel this is Xiaoxiao from Global Energy Interconnection Development and Cooperation Organization short for GYACO a non-profit dedicated to promoting power interconnection and clean energy developments recently I have been talking with the local utilities and for them their common sense is that the development of electric electric vehicle has put a huge pressure to the power infrastructure especially the system operation so what they propose that in the future instead of having faster charging stations at all the houses and some random places what they propose is to have clustered battery changing stations so people driving their cars to the changing station to change for a new battery so for all the vehicles they don't own a battery actually the batteries are owned by some companies or utilities so they just go there to change like what they do now for the gasoline so they go there and to refuel it what they propose is that by this way the utility could better manage the waveform like instead of having more and more severe dark curves that's what they do this is a you know this suggesting battery swapping for vehicles is a business model that's already burned a couple of billion dollars and gone down in flames literal flames? I don't think literal in this case no money burning flames so the challenge was getting a lot of car companies to share the same kind of battery design the same kind of batteries it's kind of a non-starter for consumer cars fleets commercial fleets may go that way but fast charging improvements have gone so well that battery swapping is sort of actually I actually think weirdly we will see it with scooters first there's a lot of conversation about this for electric bikes and scooters because there are so many of them and there are smaller batteries and I think we'll see that before we'll see it for cars I agree there's also a big design issue now because we've the new designs for vehicles integrate the battery into the vehicle structure it's a feature it gets you low center of gravity and it gives you very good space efficiency but that makes it impossible to swap so unless you really back out of that and that's been a huge reason why you can now have 250 mile vehicles instead of 150 mile vehicles it's even part of the crash protection part of the car now thank you all thank you thank you