 Podcasters round table round 83 podcast distribution. We have a subtitle today go to your audience and Actually, if you have a beverage go ahead and consume that I've got water ampere here. I need a sip of my beer because today Man, it's just not going well. It's not going well, but that is live production in a nutshell. I Well the round table in theory has a new Channel split the YouTube channel won't go into that but It does have that new YouTube smell, but you guys You can't smell it because we're not there so we'll hopefully next time be on that channel I'm gonna upload it to that but yeah, that smells called starting over from zero subs, but Anyways, so I want you to go Subscribe to the channel because mainly I don't want to miss I don't want you to miss the content Use a little notification after you subscribe There's a little icon of a bell use that and say yeah, I want to be notified because all you're going to get is When we are live, it's really the only thing that's gonna be on this channel unless we do something that is special But right now you can use pod help dot me slash PR tube and PR tube is all in caps once we get to that hundred subs That's why it's important for you to go sub once we get the hundred subs and we're 30 days old big 30 days old We'll be able to get the custom URL and it'll be easy for me to say something like podcasters or YouTube comm slash podcasters round table But right now a Dave type that in the chat pod help dot me Slash all caps PR tube All right, so please do that and let's meet the round table. We want to get started. It should be a good one Damn Jay Lewis welcome back Thank you. I'm from the audacity to podcast comm So sorry for the YouTube stuff, but you know when all of us start a new show I think we all feel that kind of thing we need to reach our audience This is a perfect and I think you are doing your job here as a co-host and you're Bringing us into the the conversation because we're going to be trying to figure out. How do we find? That audience especially when we're new which is kind of a good round to Well in theory to have a new channel, but we are trying to build subs on that new channel So we need to reach those people YouTube is gonna be one of those ways for us because we are an audio only podcast It's the only part that lives in a podcast feed that then livestreams on YouTube so Dave Jackson welcome back Yeah, Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting and Yeah, it is kind of fun going going back to the beginning and it's we're getting ready to climb that hill again Be fun to watch Yeah, and I think I just left some stats for you guys and we have our own and podcast around table slack Go ahead Dave pod help dot me slash All caps PR tube to you be It's like the Wi-Fi password. Yeah So Yeah, I just showed that we're getting some nice retention if you look at YouTube stats at all you'll see that YouTube retention is hard to get me three and a half minutes So keep half your audience, but we do pretty well for the percentage of people who are watching an hour long Video so if you aren't watching us if you're listening on the audio only you don't do anything actually I even did change I did a 301 redirect even on that feed so Things are just we are chaos here, but Glenn welcome back to the round table Hey guys horse radio network here glad to be here tonight talking about how to build an audience Yeah, and you were here recently, but I I'm not sure we had your video now We did nice. Can you see me tonight? We can see you got my Christmas lights up. I'm ready. Yeah, it's perfect They Daniel's got his Christmas theme LEDs and there's sound panels back there very fancy So you definitely want to check out the video for that, but yeah, we're gonna talk about Distributing your podcast getting to your audience Maybe your audience isn't even listening to a podcast yet Glenn deals with that a lot and yet. He's extremely Successful with his show and that's one of the reasons we had him back a we wanted to see him in this time He's just way too much content last time. I feel like we didn't even get I had to have Glenn by himself Because he just has that much great content. You have to hear what Glenn has to say So we're gonna dive into it I think this is a good round table for that, even though we don't have a new round table, but hey always be experimenting Guns video is new. Yeah, I'm new. I'm half new. He is half new. That's right We only had half a Glenn last time. That's right. We got point five new round table errors. I like it all right, so Let's see the first thing we need to talk about when discussing his podcast distribution We covered Did a we covered a bit in previous rounds about iTunes then we have one called Beyond iTunes and those are sort of all the places to Distribute and traditionally your podcast and these are you know podcast directories So round 35 and 40 finished and those but my first question is once you are well represented in the top podcast directories iTunes Stitcher What's another one you have to submit to a Google play tune in tune in right these ones once you're in those Where do you go next? So I guess let's just start really open-ended right there and Who whoever wants to jump in with Once you're in the the big ones you submit you're in iTunes name and lights Where do you go next is that it you just stop there? Daniel feel free to plug your website because that's what I was gonna mention anyway Well podcast places calm lists all the places you and your podcast should be it's a little bit outdated now So I welcome anyone to provide corrections provide input on that, but there are Dozens maybe even hundreds of other podcast apps and directories But if you hit those top ones that we just mentioned that puts you in most of the places out there Like overcast for example just use the iTunes search most of the places where people listen to podcast right but Glenn You have a show where someone who wants to hear it is probably not searching iTunes That's right. I all my shows they're they're well I do get people searching iTunes, but it's less and less actually But I'm saying like there's a large part of your audience who who or let's put it this way Potential audience right there's people who would like to listen to your stuff But don't know you exist and they're not going to be in iTunes looking for you Right, they're not listening to other podcasts where then they can find the horse radio network Can I get on my soapbox now? This is my soapbox here. This business is hard. It's hard when you start out It is not easy you're gonna feel depressed and dejected because people are not miraculously finding you in the Thousands of podcasts that are on iTunes or wherever else they're consuming podcasts You need help and the way we did it eight years ago and have continued to do it is we found help We found partners and what I call them. I call them media partners We now have 70 media partners that we work with in our niche That's 70 and I wrote down I just did a list today of some of the quick ones that I thought would be the most interesting and I sent this to To you guys I sent this to a couple of you and it's a whole page of Just the ones that I could think of off the top of my head. So so I question where After you after you create the podcast RSS feed you get out there in iTunes of this list Which I don't know if I'm looking at the right list. You did send me some notes Which are awesome Glenn doing overtime on the round table. Where was where was the first? Place you went out to that was started. Okay. I started with bloggers We started our first episode with a blogger We had a blogger on because I wanted the blogger to post a do a post about it Because we didn't have any listeners at that point the blogger did so that kind of worked We we got some listeners right away from the blogger So I started with bloggers then we reached out to magazines and then Associations and then businesses that was the order of events that we did it What was the most successful in the beginning to find that audience? The magazines and what were you telling people? What were you putting in a magazine to get people back to now? We're not putting anything in a magazine. We were making we were building relationships with magazines So I would go to a magazine and say look we have a podcast you have a magazine We're not really competing. So why don't we work together you come on and do content on one of my shows in Exchange you promote our shows on you put them on I asked them to put them on their home page and a lot of them did So they put they would put the links and a player on their home page And then some of them actually put the put free ads in the magazine for the show Although I don't know that we got much out of that, but and they were also posted on social media Which was what I was really looking for so We exchange content they got they got something they didn't have a podcast on their website They also got to advertise their magazine in our show by helping us with content So the magazines because they already had tens of thousands of loyal followers now They they were saying go try this out that we're part of this where we're a partner with them and That's really what worked and oh by the way everything. I'm going to talk about today didn't cost a dime no money It did what did it cost time time And And promotion of effort right the average I even told kind of that almost like an ad for someone else But it's a media partner. Yeah, you know we're partners. We're truly our partners Do you know how long it took to get like your first one? We had our first one within six months, and it was it is the by the way they still carry all of our shows on their website and it is the largest Magazine largest oldest magazines a hundred years old in our industry and they still have a section on their website For all of our shows and list them and have our players So and that's eight years later. I Just think it's the thing about that is I have people now that they'll put out four episodes And they're like should I pivot and I'm like you just jumped in the water. What are you talking about? It's hard. I just told you how hard this is it is hard And you know I you know I have some examples, too I'll give you as we go on the conversation because I think having the examples will help give you give people ideas of what they Can do when they approach the magazines and the blogs and the associations and those people because I think that's important to Hear the examples of what different things you can do to make that happen I don't know if I'm the only one out here doing this But right now we have found in our industry. I've been contacted We have two magazines starting their own shows on our network in January Magazines are the big gonna be the biggest growing area getting into podcasting in the next year And the magazines have something that you all don't have they have tens or hundreds of thousands of followers already So they have believers They have also have believers that have name recognition for the writers and the people who write for the magazine So now those writers come on to be a host on the show They already have people who know that who they are and want to hear from them So they have this huge event going in yeah, definitely They have distribution already and they have an audience so I'll tell you what they don't have though They don't have people they don't have manpower to do their own shows. They don't have time They're all short and I'm gonna ask are you looking are you are they cross promoting your show? Or they are you talking about them adding a podcast their own they're adding their own podcast and we're doing all the production What's the pitch on that like putting it on then we're taking the production out of their hands plus we're in our case We're putting it on the network which already has a lot of listeners What does a magazine think about? Putting content that they want people to read or subscribe to in a magazine out for free in a podcast It's just a marketing source for them They're realizing they have to do this because I'm doing it. You're doing it other people are doing it already They might as well be doing it themselves generating subscribers to their paid subscribers to their magazine. Yes, and oh by the way We have two three magazines that pay us every month advertising to because they Basically to drum up subscribers in exchange for that. I have them help us with content So they come on they'll talk about one of the articles They'll bring a one of the people that were highlighted in one of the articles on and we'll do a whole Conversation with them to kind of go beyond what the article talked about so for us It's good content and they're paying to be they're paying to be advertisers with us So yeah, they're always looking for ways to advertise in the market and promote and their ways that they've been doing for years Aren't working as well either so they're having to do new things So where is where's the bulk of your podcast audience coming from is it coming from that? You know of is it coming from iTunes or podcatchers or website or it's everything I mean, I you know, we have 70 websites that have our links We have we have our own app which has tens of thousands of downloads now, so that helps us out a lot So that okay, so that's interrupt there because we're talking about people who are not maybe necessarily listening to podcast Maybe this is their first podcast when you when you reach out or they get in touch with you Does the app? Really help with that or is the app just an a value add I think a lot of people find us through the app because those searchers and the app will come up in the app store And then they'll give it a try but word of mouth. It's our biggest now Would charging for your app be a barrier to distributing No, no doubt. I think that's pretty universal for Content creators that the app is really a marketing aspect not a money-making aspect Unless you have such a loyal following that you can provide extra bonuses inside the app But even then I think that would be smarter to do as an unlock like an in-app purchase I've had a couple of advertisers now asking me. I'm looking into this about putting advertising on the app They're putting small banner ads on the app that I've gotten requests for and I've been resisting it because I kind of wanted to keep the app clean Yeah, who makes your app? I mean, how would you even have the ability to do that? One of my listeners Did it and it's a business they want to start for value for a podcast He is a really really smart guy and knew how to do all this stuff anyway So he has an app of his own that's in the horse world and I traded him advertising for building our app You know, I don't think we got to that part like we're talking about I'm kind of referring to this audience that doesn't listen to podcast Oh, Glenn, what is your show and why were people why would people maybe why are you reaching an audience that maybe necessarily is not listening to podcasts already Well, we just we did ten shows we have ten shows now It'll be 12 in January and it's all horses all different niches in the horse world Everything's horse and all niches in the horse world and the horse worlds, you know, the horse world's nine million people You know, so I take a look at our audience and go wow, we got a lot of growth, right? We have a lot of potential for growth and that's in the United States, by the way so it's nine million people in the United States, you know and I I Think, you know, it was a hard battle for us for seven years We had to educate people how to listen that was the first thing if you go to my website at horse radio network calm You're gonna see one of the first things you see is big buttons on how to listen And I have you click on that button and it goes through exactly step by step how to listen So we do a lot of education now in the last year or two Thanks to everything that's happened in podcasting last night or two nights ago. Thanks to Jimmy Fallon making fun of it That all helps You know, so but it's been come much easier and people are figuring it out and then starting to search for horse podcasts and when they do we're it so SEO to by the way has helped us if you search for a horse podcast now in Google you're gonna find us so we SEO has helped you or you your podcast has helped your SEO Both I think it's both because we've been really good about show notes from day one and putting it and really good about the guests So if you we've had 6,200 guests now that's 6,300 now So when you search for one of those people you're gonna see you're gonna see a professional rider You search for them their website and then it's our website. I know I know, okay, so here's here you go Yeah, write this down what you so you list I bet you're listing all 6,300 people in your author tag Is that right? It's SEO Check out Daniel's recent episode on you know podcast SEO it's good you learned Things you probably shouldn't be doing. Yeah things you should be doing but yeah, I mean SEO is important I mean show notes you're saying because podcast on the web a Podcast is not necessarily going to do anything for you. You still have to write the text, right? Yeah, but people still Google for stuff. So when they Google I heard about podcasting What if there's a horse one they don't go to itins to do that they Google it let me write that down am I wrong about that first stuff Yeah, they still Google But you know, that's why we have spent and you know, we don't do the long We don't do transcriptions and I know a lot of people do and I think it's probably great But we do too many shows we put out 15 to 20 shows a week It would cost me $10,000 a week and do transcriptions. What are the so You're showing is not it's not necessary and in fact good show notes are probably better than transcripts because they're organized They're not just rambling on Still looks for updates, you know, I still come back to the thing I preach to everybody that starts a show and it's written in our contracts for anybody starts to show with us as you Cannot miss episodes. You're consistent consistent consistent if you're weekly you're weekly and you never miss and then 5,000 episodes we've never missed an episode and that's important for Google too because they look they want that website updated all The time and I don't think that's changed hasn't Daniel. They're still looking for that, right? Yeah, they'll look for the quality of the content They look at how frequently is the website updated with new fresh content that is equally high quality It's you're building a reputation and Google is measuring that basically in all of their secret algorithms that they tweak on a regular basis And so I think that you know this whole conversation is Part of distribution right your website is a big distribution point There are people who'll start a podcast neither not have a website or we'll say you don't need a website But I think what I'm saying is all of it's important Yes, we're getting new listeners from everywhere All of it's important if you want to build a show that truly is you know And if you want to eventually and I think everybody does maybe in the back of their mind want to be full-time at it You know like like my wife and I are you've got you've got to be thinking on all cylinders from day one And and yeah, that takes time. It doesn't cost money by the way. It's not money It's time time is money Glenn time is money. Well, you're right. You're right time is money And by the way the bigger you get the more that becomes true Yeah, right Dave. Absolutely. Yeah, that's Doesn't understand that concept because he just starts another show Dave. You have a new show So, yeah That's gonna be my new podcast It's gonna be how to podcast at two in the morning and still sound like you're awake because that's about what I'm doing So it's crazy. Nice. I'm learning that in my advanced age here, which is you know, whatever But I can't just shoot a video time I want like I took a nap their day and I turned on the count I was like, oh boy, you can't I mean these bags are just that's not working out man So I post 40 if you thought I was 38 all of you. I know it's Well, it's speaking of age. I think some of the methods that we're talking about are a bit It is great. I'm not out dating outdated, but I think like My generation and younger that the senior millenials and I really don't Behavior but technically I am like at the top of the give us an age group. Yeah, so 30s and below or so These people are not reading magazines as much anymore They have a constant connection to the internet. They're extremely. I'll argue with you a little bit. Okay What niche you're at Duke? Well, yeah. Yeah, totally depends on me. Yeah, because mine are They love seeing pictures of horses. So they still get the magazines and They'll read the magazines, you know at times when When they can't necessarily reach the media new media or their phones It's amazing and in certain niches and I bet you look and skiing and some of the other niche areas You're gonna find that that's magazine subscriptions in the horse world are increasing not decreasing interesting Patrick Keller asked this question kind of relating to this. How do you reach the young people though like outside of I Can't think of any other way to put it but outside of the like the country people the people who maybe Don't have technology so integrated into their lives But the people who are suburban or urban but not rule How do you reach them that next generation the people who aren't reading paper or touching paper? And I think I think that's a special challenge because I think below a certain age You know listen to podcast like who podcasts and stuff your parents like I didn't used to love the history channel Like my stepdad used to watch a home. What's one of the home-building shows old? Aren't you the history I hate it now. I love it. So I thought there becomes an age where Oh, yeah, there's plenty of great is red and gray and white is all kinds of there's less of it, but You know This type of content spoken word, you know, you don't have teenagers flipping on NPR for the most part of over generalizing So it's harder to reach there are harder demo I think you have to make now that we it's so custom podcasts is we're getting itchy as I heard someone say we're getting itchy with it here you can Speak to what they're interested in so if you're trying to reach now, you know this show here There's plenty young people Podcasting so I just need to appeal to whatever their needs are in podcasting, right? So I think you know Glenn I mean with a horse show or you know Dave with a show, you know about the Alexa I mean you just would have to be where they're at having those conversations. Maybe they're hacking their Alexa or something, right? I I don't know you guys think that's it. There's a lot to it And I would come back to the same thing. Where are they at? Where are they reading their content? They're going someplace and that's the place you need to go with Well, and I don't know how you break that one without You know, you have to be in that world To break that one. That's the thing is that the younger generation you have to be in their world They their attention spans are getting shorter. I think that's why snapchat works so well as hey I don't have attention for much more than an extremely short thing and I don't really care about it after 24 hours So might as well make it disappear snapchat so totally Describes that generation millenials and whatever the next generation after that is called that I I think that yeah being there where they are and Making snippets making things that can connect with them is Is a way to build your audience with them because I just can't see That generation wanting to sit down and listen to a half hour long thing But they'll sit down and they'll watch an entertaining five or ten minute thing or especially watch a short 32nd thing and that's really the key I think in no matter what your audience is you have to figure out a who who are they and then you have to go where they're at whether that's magazines or blogs or Radio or social some sort of social media or you know, we're at whatever it is You have to figure out who who are they and then you have to figure out where they're at Did otherwise, you know, how are they gonna know? You're you're alive. Basically, let's take a let's take a an example from the chat Chris says what's a good way to promote a TV fan show podcast, right? So I guess you want to get in front of the TV show viewers. You're not the official podcast So you're not going to be listed probably on the show An app could be a good way because there's probably searching for content related to the show in iTunes What do you guys think Dan? Do you have a TV show fan podcast anything different that you can do there to reach the people? We're watching the TV. Yeah What you don't want to do first I'll tell you this is don't go to the TV fan forums and post a link to your podcast Now you can go there and because you did this and it was It really is spam. What you could do is you could pick one Maybe when you're starting out go there and participate in conversations And then when you can you can say hey, we talked about this in our podcast And maybe eventually you'll build relationships and other people will start sharing your stuff in those places I think a big thing is follow the hashtags TV shows have official hashtags and Whether that be that you get on Twitter and like you use tchat.io or tweet chat calm and you Use the hashtag as a chat room and you respond to people especially during the show in different time zones and Maybe even you can see People tweeting certain things that you address in your podcast so you can reach out to them and you can point them Back to your podcast. That's that's how I grew the audacity to podcast in the very beginning When at that time I thought my specialty was audacity I was searching Twitter for any time anyone would say audacity and any form of the word podcast together I would see that tweet. I used to have an account called podcast genie at pot I don't know if I still own it because I was stalking Twitter in the same way So I would just pop up people like put a question about on the about their podcast in Twitter And I was like pop up like a genie. I'm like, hey, you asked a question. Let me answer So, yes, I'm down. We wish us you've got three podcast questions and I haven't I have an example for you on that one I I'm a big fan of the blacklist So I actually started searching and TV show. Yeah, I found the blacklist Fansite and on the blacklist fansite the blacklist exposed podcast was one of the things they listed And there is a possibility to maybe work with them. That's what I'm talking about partner. Yeah a media part Well, and and they have Troy his over the years Build up. He's actually met with a producer and they just hired him They flew him to Los Angeles and he did some sort of video thing that they didn't aired in the US But they did like he was part of a good junket a TV show that went out the other countries So very much so he's been time and he just got tons of behind-the-scenes stuff That you just can't get which just adds legitimacy to his podcast and That's not a short show either. Right. Well, and this stuff is this goes back to Glenn's opening premise This stuff is hard, right? It's not like he did that after episode two It's not like they took notice that hey, oh someone started a podcast about our show. Thank you so much Why don't you come to LA? No, I'm how many episodes did he do? How much did he interact? You know, I don't think it was as many as you think but he was consistent in what he did do All right. Well now the dreamers can come back. Yes one episode in your head The other thing he did that was different was like he he dove in like every door that he could get to that show Like he started talking about the writers I'm like the who yeah, and then the writers like wow writers like anybody else are like, hey, they're talking about me on the podcast And then is it was the producer. It's like wait a minute How come you interviewed one of the writers and you haven't asked the guy that started the show yet? So it was the creator of the show was listening to the show That he's like, hey, where's my invite and they're like they didn't want to invite him because he was the big cheese So, you know, one of the cool things you can do with that Uh combining this with tv show fan podcaster. Maybe you can apply this to a different niche is Try to interview some of the people. Yes Because you can leverage Interviews, but you can work your way up You probably have your a list of people that you think like if you have a tv show fan podcast Oh, I'd love to get so and so like for my podcast. I'd love to talk to josh dallas jennifer Morrison jennifer goodwin kitsis and horowitz. I'd love to have any of them on the podcast I can't just reach out to them cold and say hey you want to be on the podcast Well, I could but they wouldn't really care, but I could start out with okay There's a special person who appeared in this one episode. They were there for one scene Maybe I can interview them and start out small and then they can Then share and say hey, I had a fun interview. They respected my time. They asked good questions It was a great conversation. I'm sharing this out with all of my huge fans And I'm not saying you rely on your guest because it goes back to my favorite ever quotation from dave jackson cue the quote dave It's it's actually uh, yeah, it's it's not the size of the guest that brings value. It's the size of the value That makes a great guest Thank you dave because I'll tell you what we've had some you have 6200 guests We've had some big names on that have been terrible guests They're you know, just because they're a big name doesn't mean they're a great interview And you know you see actors go on the tonight show and on the evening shows and you go Well, that was a horrible interview. They're a great act But they're not necessarily a good interview which is sad because unlike a podcast those have been Rehearsed Yeah, and they're still terrible. They're still bad. Yeah, you know, and so we've had writers on we've had the directors on we've had all those What do you do with a with a cruddy interview? Still a lot about that. You still put it out there. It's bad in your opinion, right? The thing is it might not be bad in everyone's opinion Well, that's right And you know, I've had interviews that I thought were terrible and I get the most mail on them saying they loved it And I'm going what the heck did they like about it? We've had rounds here that I I was like that one wasn't so good And then it's got some of the best stats and people say great round is like I can't I have to take myself out of it Yeah, you do you do and I've had I have that happen every week. Yeah, and one of those tips I was talking about interviews and getting people on a long time ago. I produced a music show for some some of my friends and During that I was like probably 2008. So it was early days and we had a we had a Like a musician on and then later on I went to his facebook page and he had like 175 thousand people on this page I was like, whoa lightning struck and light bulb went off and every other cliche and I was like Let me get in touch this person needs to post The show on their page not me posting it if they need to do it And I had to get you know Someone who at that point he's got a handler or something and but getting them to post on check see if they have facebook Check their social if they can mention it, you know, give them the resources to share make it very easy for them And you know, then it just puts you in front I mean you just interviewed that musician. Of course that person's fans. That's content. They want Well, I we had one on monday We did our 12 hour live Radiathon which is now our second annual and we started with christian bush of sugar land And he spent a half an hour with us and he made the big announcement on our show that they're going to be getting back together They've been not together for three years and they're going to be getting back together Well, he has five million followers on facebook We elected not to have him post it before the live show because if A percentage of them had come we would have been off the air for the 12 You know, we would have been done So we've elected to have him post that he's going to post it now this weekend You know to the recorded version because we just had to make that conscious decision Do we want to be off the air for 12 hours? Would have knocked us out and then there's another there's another method there you mentioned Event special events, right? I mean we have international podcast day which we all participate in And that is some exposure that gets you in front of a new audience. You had your own marathon We started this last year and it's 12 hours live. I don't know why I picked 12 hours because I was a glutton for punishment And we got we have 20 hosts this year. We have 20 hosts involved all day long We rotate the hours. We have different themes each hour And then we have two main mcs that are here in the studio with me and then the all the other hosts are remote And then we had we have 24 scheduled guests. We started with christian bush We had ice road trucker lisa callion because she's a horse girl and by the way She has a half a million followers on facebook and then we have 20 of the big names in the horse world on and We we do it all day long. We we get prize sponsors. We had 20 sponsors for this event We gave away 4200 dollars worth of prizes on monday Day long we gave away prizes listeners submitted voicemails where they sang songs about the horse radio network and their favorite hosts or their horses or Poems we had a hundred of those we played all day long It was a lot of fun for your already your your present audience, but what about what about getting in front of new people? Well, we hit almost two million people on facebook with all the promotions leading up to it because one of the requirements We have is if you're going to be a guest a sponsor or any way involved in it You have to promote it for weeks ahead So we had these people who have a half a million followers on facebook posting at our guests and things like that and our sponsors What was the value? It was them. I mean, you they're giving you something at that point What's the value add for them to participate beyond our radio thon? Yeah That's the value in two years. It's become a thing and what's the point of the radio thon? What's it's real for fun? It's to lead people into the holidays and have a good time And so it's 12 hours of holiday fun and and the key is that the listeners get to participate We had 160 callers 100 of them sent in voicemails ahead of time All of those people qualify for the prizes all day so they get to win stuff Our grandpas was $1,500 with the stuff So, you know it it They want to be involved your listeners want to be involved so bad and so many podcasts do not do anything with their listeners And I don't understand that that's a good one I mean I even on the podcast or studio. I used to be really good about bringing in The listener voicemail and stuff like that and then that sort of changed but yeah, I mean Do you know why it is social media? It's a social media They're there if your listeners on your show, they're telling everybody in their social media. They're telling everybody I remember when I was first on a podcast. It was amazing. Yeah, maybe it might have been Dave show I called in I was like, I'm on the show check it out Five and five is my best plan Your big name guests might not tell anybody because they've been on a hundred shows And it happens a lot when we're talking about these big name guests and A lot of times they won't promote and it right it Huff and you so you really have to be in it to be giving the value to your audience You got to be bringing them on because they're going to offer some because If you're expecting to happen I mean a lot of times you can't get to these people or their manager isn't going to post it It might not happen But there are things you can do around having that name you've got a name there, right? So you better provide the value content But now in itunes if someone's searching for you get the name so there are things you get so don't be Depressed if someone doesn't then post it on their facebook page If your best friend at the barn in my case is on a podcast and you're going to listen Because you're going to want to hear what what they do on the podcast, right? So so that's the word of mouth. I'm talking about I'll give you a perfect example this year on our show On the stable scoop show the first show that was our premiere show our flag Scoop sounds a little bit like a show. I might not want to Radio show our first one been at nine years now We this year did year of the listener, which means all of our guests were listeners So we've had by by the end of this month. We'll have had a hundred listeners on And the numbers are up 25 percent this year on that show Guess what? Well, it's their friends. They're promoting it out to their friends And that's the reason the numbers are up on that show and they stayed up So so some of them are hanging around that's the key. It's not that not that your buddy listened Just to hear you is that they actually found the content and they're like, you know what? We're friends for a reason probably because we have something in common and now they're listening to the show You know, this is a podcast wasn't many cases This is part of the what there is a problem here in this interviewing other podcasters space Because what I find like I've been on I don't know how many podcasts as a guess other podcasters or just interviewing other podcasters Or or even kind of need to be one thing. Well, it's a two-sided thing is what I'm saying is um If you're interviewing someone else They may be able to bring content that's relevant to your audience. That's fantastic You know, it brings extra value to your audience and that's what you should always be focused on is bringing value to your audience But does it bring value to their audience? it's like when If someone takes brings me on to their podcast to talk about um max Uh apple products. Okay. Yeah, I'll promote it to my audience and I enjoy certain apple products as well And I might enjoy being on someone else's apple fan podcast But will my audience really care that much about it? Maybe not because it's not the kind of content my audience has come to expect now We often the three of us dave ray and I often hear From other people say, yeah, I discovered your podcast because of the round table or I discovered the round table from your podcast Then that led me to someone else's podcast. So Because we're all in the same industry. It's very likely that our audiences would be interested in crossing what I see with glenn is He has guests that are in the same industry They don't have podcasts and he's succeeding really well with his guests Because they're in the same industry. So what he shares in his podcast his guest's audience wants to share too I mean like if we had uh, what's what's a famous person in the chris brogan If we had chris brogan on this podcast sure that'd be really cool people would think oh wow chris brogan He's famous social media guy on their podcast But would his audience care about his being on here I don't know who he is by the way. No, it's not bad at all. Okay. Good. Guess I'm feeling left out here No one knows outside of this Our bubble here, but hey we had pat flin on right and and if you look here if you look at the archives It's like one of the few titles that actually has a name and it says pat flin So, you know, I'm I'm using that a little bit. It's the same with grammar girls been on here But here's the key like pat flin's audience knows pat fen sorry dave daniel myself With we go on shows and you want to hear how I got in the podcasting my audience knows that they've heard it so many times When pat was on this show we talked about podcasting success And we tried to center the conversation around how pat made a podcast successful Which he did something after he did blogging did some weird thing with my audio there. So In that case Hopefully it is a value to pat's audience who are entrepreneur types and maybe thinking of starting a podcast so Yeah, if you I think it's a great point because it did My audience doesn't want to hear my story. They know it so You know, maybe and on daniel I don't know how you sort of do you tweak that what the person who wants to have in your show and say Hey, let's have a conversation about something else. Do you help control that or you just don't promote it? What's the outcome of that? I mean Daniel you're gonna go directly to daniel right or yeah, I'm just saying daniel saying there's this issue where we You know the content might not be valuable to our own audience Do you have those conversations with other people who want to have you on the show? Do you try to guide the content any way to make it more valuable for your own audience so that you can then share it? Well, yeah, and most of the time that I'm invited to be on someone else's podcast It's because they want to talk about podcasting on their podcast and I appreciate those opportunities What I kind of feel is in some way The bigger responsibility or the bigger challenge for me in those cases is here. I'm talking about the same subject to audiences That aren't passionate about that subject like I'm not talking about being on dave's array show, but on being on I can't think of a show right now But being on someone else's show that's about something completely different like a baby show Maybe since noodle baby is going to be born very soon. Maybe they want to interview me view me asking me what it's like to be a new dad Or sorry, I'm mixing this all up. It's gonna be very hard to hold a noodle, baby. Don't drop Like I just don't see how Yeah, it's very messy and babies are mess Let me take take two. This is going to be our edit point. We'll edit this in post So you won't have heard any of this. Yeah Notice the humor all the smiles coming out of race face two one Okay, take two like I was saying my intelligent thought was When I'm on someone else's podcast and I'm talking about podcasting My challenge I feel is to make my niche relevant to their audience Because they may have the marketing podcast the parenting podcast the whatever podcast they don't normally talk about podcasting they invite me on To talk about podcasting and I feel like it's a great opportunity But I know probably most of your audience doesn't care about my niche. They care about your regular niche So how am I going to make podcasting relevant to your niche? Plus you're not going to promote that yourself because you're kind of people already know that your listeners already Know that story. Yeah, that's Well, I mean for me, I just interviewed Michael O'Neill who's the solo perner hour guy Guy's making six figures with his podcast and I want to know like, okay How did you what did you do? How did you start and he also was doing some things I really like but There was nothing in that interview that if I go out and look and see that Michael did zero promotion I would not be surprised because his audience knew pretty much everything we talked about I would assume in that but I don't think my audience did So that was it was content for me, but I didn't expect him to promote it Can I go ahead? Sorry? I've actually decided to no longer participate in template overly templatized interviews For partially this reason that it's not really bringing any new content to me Or I mean to my audience or to necessarily the audience of the podcast I'm supporting but what I would love to do is and this happened recently Stefan Stefan Spencer, I think Is a member of podcaster society and he wrote the book about seo like this book is bigger than the bible It's bigger than the dictionary and he gave me one at podcast movement It's this huge book on seo and I have an seo for podcasters product So he had me on his podcast and we talked about a specific topic That was relevant to his audience Relevant to my audience too so I can point people to that episode to say hey, we had this great conversation about this specific thing He did research. He had a good conversation. So that enables me to better Reach my audience with the content he pulled from me in his interview Can can I circle back to uh, we're at the beginning does it involve distribution of yes And I wanted to give a couple more ideas, you know, I talked about magazines I think that's going to be one of the biggest groups coming into our space in the next year doing podcasts There's another group. I'm saying knocking up my door now and that's associations Every niche has associations in our case. We have breed associations discipline associations We have a ton of different associations in the horse world and and a lot of times they're they're the They're the head association for a breed of horses nine years full-time podcaster We have a network at our association member organization Yep so The associations are now looking at doing podcasts or and in our case I have several that actually have been our sponsors for years that we've had involved in our shows that are now starting to look at doing their own um So Associations don't overlook associations. I can't this is a matter of just contacting them and saying look I have a podcast that's in your space. I do something you don't do. Let's work together It's not any more complicated than asking What are they going to say? No, but in that case is that really about is that really about them getting them to start a podcast? Which is a business for you or or is it about getting your content like another distribution point doesn't your podcast become Their podcast you're working together again. It's a media partnership You give them a spot and that's what we do with the ones that we work with now They may have a five minute segment once a month where they come on and do an update of what's going on in the association Well, it's relevant to my audience because a lot of those people are are In that same space that the association is in What the association gets out of all of that is new memberships And that and we've brought a lot of new memberships to the associations Because the they may not realize what the association does or that they you know There's different levels of membership all of that so working with them as a media partner Again brings new listeners to your show now part of the deal we make with them is We lay out exactly what they have to do for us social media posts whether there's a Link on the website a banner So we we lay out exactly what they they have to do for us That's part of the deal in the beginning and then you have to follow up make sure they're doing it That's the other thing But there's new listeners the other place we get new listeners and don't overlook his businesses Give you a perfect example. We have a the largest vet veterinary office in the united states Has 55 veterinarians In the horse world all they do is horses They come on once a month and they do updates. They do health segments for us once a month They promote that out to their social media religiously when they do that And I know we've picked up new listeners Younger listeners because everybody that has a horse young or old has a veterinarian Right and cares about that. So we've actually picked up younger listeners because of our business context We also work with the biggest publishing company in the horse world. They send us every horse book that comes out We send them out to our listeners to review. We get the listener on the show to do the review The listeners do all I can't read we get five to ten books a month I can't read them. So we started sending them out the listeners. They review them. They get to keep the book The listeners out now have started a book sharing program on facebook where they're all sharing the books with each other When they're done reading them So that happened just the listeners doing it But that publisher then promotes every single time we do a review on our shows They're putting it out to their list And oh by the way, we have the authors on sometimes if the book's good And the authors pr people are putting out press releases I was going to say what when the but when the book sucks Because people your audience this comes down to trust issue, right? They're going to think well Yeah, he does a review. It's favorable. It sucks about every product and book we review, right? And we do do that. We usually cover that one two things that do suck about every product we review There's always something you don't like And you know, we have had books that they've come on and said look, this isn't my favorite thing You know, it's just it's just a review, right? It's a review by one listener who read about Uh, you know and the publisher understands that going in, you know, they get negative reviews all the time Right, they understand they get negative reviews all the time. They're not always getting positive reviews Uh, so we also one other area. I'll throw out at jenna. I know I'm throwing a lot of things Authors on that same note We have authors that have written really cool books that come on with us once a month and do Segments with us that is relevant to the audience. I'll give you a perfect example We have a lady that wrote a book about horses in history She comes on and does a different horse every month out of her book. She covered 100 horses in her book She comes on and talks about she's so passionate and she shares it out with her audience She has like 40 000 followers. She shares it out with her audience. They listen. We have new listeners from her So we have other authors we work with too that way All media partners It's all free. All you have to do is ask But you have to really think outside the box go outside your comfort zone And ask it's sales all they can say is no and you move on Yeah, and I think that's really kind of one of the things to draw from From that the moral is that you know, think of try to think of all these different You're connected to so many topics and types of media and people and you know people wonder How can you do a show about one little thing? You're in a niche and keep it going for 50 100 550 episodes. Well, you really have to go down and think yeah, exactly You really have to think Who else where else can I bring the value right is someone wrote a book, you know in this in this space Is there is there a magazine in this space? You know, there's just so many ways to approach it and I think, you know, that's really good and You know, it's interesting because at once do you You mix a lot of formats. You have is it, you know, you're not just an interview show You're not just a host coho show You're not just a go on location show. I mean like you're mixing it all right So how does that is that generally? A good thing or do people say hey, we really want you to stick to book reviews We're not so interested in the interview. I I I'm not a total believer in interview shows We don't do a lot of just interview we we believe in segments Part of the reason I believe in segments is we can we can build more sponsors into the show too that way So we do segments our interviews may be 15 20 minutes In an hour show we might have three other segments We do a horses in history segment might last 10 minutes a vet segment might last a veterinary segment might might last 10 minutes So we'll build those segments in for the people with shorter attention spans. It works out beautifully and And occasionally we'll do a longer interview if we think it's Have you always been a segmented show or did you we started out doing interviews and I got bored And I figured my listeners were too. So that's why we went to segments So and to be honest I had more sponsors and I needed more spots to put them So we created segments that would work for the sponsors and it just worked at it's good content It's also sponsored. We make a little money and it just worked out well for us And so all the shows we start we start with segments now. They're all segmented Cool. I also learned Don't buy a horse You just said every every other veterinary and that's just sounds way too expensive This thing about buying a horse is buying the horse. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna have it talk to my daughter at some point She'll probably want a horse. No, I'm gonna say no to that but um Remember the cheapest thing is buying it horses and boats It's a good example Ray Dave sometimes I feel like we're in the wrong industry Well, and you know what when people start podcasts, I hear my another soapbox of mine. Sorry When people start podcasts, I tell them to niche Dave knows this I preach this I tell them niche niche niche because niches is actually if you want to make any money if you don't don't worry about Don't worry about it. Uh, but if you actually want to make some income niches is where the money's at Can you back yourself too far into a corner? I have a show That's about carriage driving. That's my smallest show I have and one of our most profitable shows But omnis people don't listen to podcasts do they know they don't know they don't but we have a show That's about draft horses that I happen to know some omnis people are listening to because guess what all omnis people now have Cell phones. Oh, okay. See so They all have cell phones and they all have to reach everybody. There's a chance to read and they're listening Don't don't believe they aren't. No, I know No more omnis jokes. All right They weren't listening. I figured it was it's safe. It's a safe joke people We do have to be careful on the draft order show that we don't have any so But you can you when you start a show and you're thinking how Niche niche uk people how how much can I drill down? Is there a danger in going too far? Is it okay and you can work yourself out of it? Rod I think if you're we have a lot of people that give your It's back to the same example that driving radio show or the draft tour show, which is really niche Um, we have a lot of people that listen to those shows because they're entertaining They listen because they like the hosts. They don't necessarily have a draft horse. They don't have they don't drive a carriage We've had a lot of people by the way start driving their horse because they listen to the driving show Because they like the hosts, you know, one of the first podcasts I started listening to Every episode was like this ultra light backpacking podcast. This community it's all about shaving ounces right and they're going up like the pacific crest trail and I've never done that. I never I didn't plan to do it. There was people climbing Everest I'm certainly not going to do that yet. I listened right and I mean it was extremely niche so Yeah, it doesn't you don't have to actually you don't know who the audience is going to be You know another thing about that. Let's forget about money throw out money altogether um Just being found we're talking about distribution and finding your audience It's the same thing though, isn't it? Oh and stick out It's and you know, you talk about when you start when you start Is probably the perfect time to go to a blog and association I want to work with you and I'll do the tech side because remember they don't have the people I'll do the tech side You do your you know, you help with the content. I'll do the tech side. Let's start this together That's probably the perfect time to do it I think that what we see in this space is If you don't already have a big following then a niche is your most powerful place Now you can get a big following by being in a niche Right, but you have to niche down first and then at some point people will follow you to wherever you go Like we do have I wouldn't say that I have a massive following But we have people who started watching the tv show once upon a time Because we do a podcast about it and they wanted to follow us when we launched the other podcast So they wanted to watch what we were watching so that they could listen to more content from us All right, why did why did they why did they do that? What was the reason that they did that? What's because I like us. Yeah, exactly. They like the hosts. Yeah Well, that's the cliche. I always say people come for the content stay for the stay for the host Right, but there is some truth to that. I don't mean that is a special intimacy Man, I feel like I'm just trying to cliche after cliche when a podcast There's a special connection to the podcaster that an audience has and this happens to other media too But it seems to happen a lot in podcasting Maybe because you're joining them every week you do that with some tv shows, but it's just something different and In the past it was it was columnist wasn't it Dave Barry's of the world in the past, you know We're just the new version. There's nothing is new here. Yes Glenn said me two favorite words Dave Barry Dave Barry man huge influences on me I used to read it every week in the newspaper Speaking of huge influence Nick Cerberlin in the chat said glenn is a major inspiration to me I'm hoping to someday create a daily show slash network Yes, make sure you can I did I say how much work all of this is that I did Nick definitely knows how much work it is He built a whole show scrapped it and starting over by the way my daily show Five days a week is our most popular show I listen I listen on Friday Have a horse most popular hold on hold on hold on most popular Uh in number of listens or everything consistent listens most money most number of listens most listeners and why why I mean we got to be careful here because Dave why well Dave why is it you you don't have a horse you listen Why I listen on fridays because you have like what is it called bad ads really bad ads? Yeah, really bad ads They're hilarious and so I tune in and they're talking about who knows what something horse thing feather whatever main I don't know but it's it's and I'm like okay cool But they're having fun they're laughing and I'm picking I'm actually getting somewhat educated about horses now Um, but man when they get to the bad ads, I'm I'm laughing out loud. It's it's hilarious So I tune in because as glenn says, you know, don't be boring and it's entertaining and it's funny And because it's it's you don't have to have a horse to like those So I tune into those but if when he goes deep into the weeds and the horse stuff I'm like, all right, not for me, but friday. I'm in all day You're coming back to me in a couple weeks to see me Yeah, I'm coming. I'll be in tampa florida. Yeah, you're gonna read bad ads, by the way He's gonna read bad. He doesn't know that yet, but you know, that's part of what you're doing Make him read it in the pinky and the whiz Really blow it out. Oh, that'd be good. Actually. I got thank you for that. Yeah. Well if you want to hire me I got ideas people. I got ideas Emily in the chat. Thanks for joining us Emily. She's awesome And she says she misses playing the what's behind ray game. Yeah, I'm sorry That's just a wall boring pictures this yeah in this picture. So yeah, always changing This is a new setup But you could do the glove and boots thing and that is you have one picture frame that every time you're on video There's something else in that picture and then it could even be like a hot spot that you can click on on youtube That takes them to something secret My wife bought this awesome picture frame where it's like actually the picture is just the thin It's magnetic. So it like you can literally just change the picture. So Hey, I got maybe we can get a sponsor Magnetic picture frames. Daniel. Can you make all those lights twinkle and stuff? I think you're crazy But it might make people vomit. Yeah We're gonna be a regular wangchung video dating myself, but we are gonna have a seizure here That was Our niche skew is pretty old. I was looking at I just got Hey, by the way, if you have instagram, you can convert it to a business account if you have facebook page the insights or the stats you get are really cool and Everyone that's consuming is pretty much my age. So Daniel, you don't like that. Well, I've heard social media examiner podcast recently. They talked about that and they said that Uh The engagement noticeably dropped when they converted to a business account But you can get access to those same instagram analytics If you run an ad from facebook and you have your instagram and facebook accounts linked somehow I I forget the actual details, but with something like that. Yeah, we'll look into it I'm having fun. I'm maybe come back out of it. I don't know but something to think about All right. Well as we wrap out here wrap out, we're gonna wrap out. Dave's gonna give us a wrap Go Dave As we wrap up Uh anything, I mean we we talked about we know where we need to be you got it If you're a podcast and we know where you need to live you got to be on itunes You're gonna be in all those places Daniel lists on his website. That's important Um, you want to be where people are searching for shows and then, you know Glenn great examples of just reaching out to all these different partners, which seems to be the major driver of Of his shows. I mean it's just if not, I mean you're definitely reaching the people who want to Get this content even if they didn't know they wanted it, right? They didn't discovered Hey, there's a podcast about this. What's a podcast? I'll listen. This is amazing, right? So think about those different ways and if you're a podcaster um Think about You know with a show think about all those different Ways to sort of cross promote or work with those other partners Bringing on authors or whatever whatever it is. There's like a million things in this round so Rewind you can do that wind Press the button and how painful was rewind, but so great at the same time technology Anyways, if you have any more thoughts about distributing a podcast Let us know but after that just tell us where we can find your show Uh, and I actually make I'll say go to podcasherroundtable.com Definitely go to the youtube channel subscribe. That's it's important. We're trying to build that up But my recommendation i'll just give it here And it's the one the one podcast the word of mouth that I always throw out is you have to go listen to glenn on dave show It's like dave's it's my favorite episode. I don't know he does binky in the ways That's pretty funny But if you want to know about monetization how glenn is doing all this and the niche and how powerful that is Go listen to uh that dave. What episode is that school of podcasting.com slash glenn That's two ends because He's just so good. Um glenn in the number one I don't know. I I bet it's one of your most popular episodes Yeah, the hands down hands down. Okay. So dave jackson. Thanks for joining us once again. Where can we find your show? Um, you can find because url. I just asked you to give that's right School of podcasting.com and the other thing I want to point out glenn was talking about asking all these people stuff if they say no that doesn't mean your show stinks And that just means you're that much closer to the next. Yes. So don't Don't don't freak out. Don't change your show. Don't Quit just you're gonna get a no here and there. They're also not gonna punch in the face It's sales one and ten or ten nine out of ten are going to tell you no Yeah, it's sales. It's like anything else. But by the way, some of those people told me no years ago are coming back begging now Yeah Glenn thanks for joining us on your first 0.5 round table your first half from I don't know seeing these a good thing actually, but Or it's radio network.com Perfect Dan J. Lewis co-host extraordinary. Thank you so much My one tip. I know we've given a lot of things out here I would suggest pick one of these things and get really good at it It's very easy and I feel this often too to get overwhelmed with oh, I need to try this I need to try this I need to try this all of these dozen things and you end up being really bad at all of them Pick one that looks like it would be the most effective Implement it work on it work hard on it and get really good at it And then later on you can work on the others. Thank you. I've been doing this for nine years. So, you know, it's Yeah, that's a very good advice. I'm just finding out how hard this stuff is I wish I would have known that starting out. You know, I'm gonna quit now And I'm at the audacity to podcast.com All right, everyone podcast around table.com. We'll see you on round 84 We're out of here wave. Goodbye. Bye everybody. See you