 Live at the Monsignor Patrick Anthony Folk Research Center and we want to welcome you to a very special production for San Cecilia's Day 2017. We are looking at a 60-year history of Calypso making in St. Lucia. This special production is called from the days of terror to PEP 1957 to 2017 and as you can well imagine this is a 60-year history of Calypso in St. Lucia. These are stories that must be told. I'll introduce you to my guest in just a moment. We also have a small live audience. We'll be hearing from them as well as part of that production. But what I need to tell you is that our stories need to be told. So often we look for the history and we can't find it at least not immediately and it calls for a lot of searching. We hoping by this special production would be able to provide those who are interested in the history of St. Lucia, the history of music in St. Lucia, a rich resource, a source of information that can provide you with what is it you need to know about how the music has grown and developed over the 60 years. And so with this in mind I want to introduce you first of all to Mr. Pancras Theodore and we know him most of all as a terror. Welcome sir. Thank you. We also have with us Mr. Mark Phillip who is known as Lord Jackson and we have of course Dr. Pep or Pep Aloysius Brecht. Gentlemen welcome and thank you so much for taking the time off to be with us here. We really appreciate your presence because we know we have you have stories to tell and these stories need to be heard by us. So terror first of all I want to ask of you when did you realize that you had this great interest in in Calypso? Well it started from very early I must have been about I was still in primary school. So we're talking about the early 50s? Oh yes. I was still in primary school and my stepfather then bought me a guitar. He bought me this guitar because I had found an old guitar that he had a long time ago. I had one string and I was playing all kind of songs on this one string. So he bought me a guitar. Six strings and I can't play anything on the six strings because I'm playing on one string and eventually I learned to play it myself and but I was really more interested in Calypso. You know from that time I played all I was able to sing all the Calypso's very you know those are the time spoiler, carousel, sparrow, kitch, all these I used to be singing Calypso's in school, in primary school I started and then when I went to St. Mary's I used to be singing at the school all the time. But at that time there wouldn't have been a competition right? No, no, just enjoy it all. Yes, enjoy yourselves. As a matter of fact at that time Kitchena was not even in the Caribbean. He was still in England and he used to send down his records from England on the 78s at the time. He used to send them down here and that's how we used to hear Kitchena sing because he was resided in England and he wasn't down here at all but we had Kitchena, we had a Lord Beginner, I don't know if people remember that ever, anybody here who had named him Lord Beginner he's the one who made this song Cricut Lovely Cricut. There's always things Kitchena made as a Lord Beginner, he's the one who made that song and then of course we had the older guys right here in the Caribbean, we had Spoiler, Caruso, Crusoe and there was you know Sparrow, Kitch, Melody. As a matter of fact Melody really was my favorite and I used to sing almost exactly like Melody. My voice was copied Melody's voice almost to a T and then when I decided to go into Calypso, when Calypso matured and then I started having the mighty terror, one of the man who has one of the sweetest voices in Calypso, I really love his voice and I named myself terror after him. We'll talk a little more about that and the history of you entering competition in St. Lucia but I want to hear from Jackson. Jackson when did you start Calypso hair in St. Lucia? Actually I must tell the audience, my father is a Trinidadian, I have brothers and sisters in Trinidad, one of my brother is one of the top pan arrangers so he has a lot of music in him and he has written a couple songs for Black Stalin also but I left here in 1958, I went to Trinidad and as I went to Trinidad, I heard Calypso and I fell in love with Calypso so I started hanging around by the tent so the original young Brigitte Calypso tent that run by Sparrow, I find myself there as the man packing the chairs, sweeping the hall after everything finished so I fell in love with Calypso there. The composer became my friend so I used to be at his home and he played his guitar and we cramming, we cramming. By that time I come back home only to find NCDC at that time was running the Calypso competition, they used to have just a semi-final and a final that time about seven Calypsoians, I think that time Brigitte had left and gone to Canada already and with that seven Calypsoians, the same seven Calypsoians that go to the semi-final will go to the finals. So I said to myself that's about in Trinidad I have Calypso tent starting from 1st of January until February so why do I have Calypso tent here? So that time I called Crusoe, it was Crusoe, it was Kila, it was Kila, Crusoe, myself, about five of us so we sat on the square, that was our office every night we used to sit on the square or if not in front of Backless Bank that is where we saw our meetings. So I tell you about that is post-Caribbean bond now. So I told the guys about how tent we are in Trinidad for a whole month before carnival, they say if you know how to do it, go ahead and do it and we are there with you. That time big six was the orchestra along. Kila used to be the lead guitar in that band so I went and talked to Pan, I tell Pan how it goes. Pan Andrew. Pan Andrew, right. So he told me well go ahead and organize it, we will play for you all. I said but how are you going to charge us? They say whatever you all make 50-50 and that was a good deal. That time only 50 cents in the recharging. Sometimes after show we make 200. 50 cents would be equivalent to like 40 dollars right? At that time. Oh yes, at that time. So we started the tent. When the show finished, when we peep and sometimes 70 dollars, we remain a little 70 dollars for ourselves, we go by Elwyn. Elwyn used to have a jute box, had a buddy with a jute box. The five of us, six of us, we go there by a bottle of coquette that was in the room at that time, at Coke and we sit down there and we enjoy ourselves every day we drink and that time things going well. Okay, from 50 cents you go to 75 cents, 75 cents you go up to a dollar you know and that's how it keeps going going. So after four years later I said I said but in China they have what you call a calypso, association. Why we don't have an association? By that time Calvo joined my tent. But when he joined the tent, the song he was singing, I realized that is a song from Trinidad. I said look, this tent, we have to have our own songs. We can't follow people tune. Oh, the fella I tried to remember, he died. Oh, and Charles. Cobra. Cobra. Cobra win world match with a tune. And I come from Trinidad, I know the song from this old fellas, unknown and drag and all them fellas. The song is like, he says fire engine water the road mama your treat burning down fire engine water the road. So he takes tune and threw it around. Castries burning down like this. But right by business at that time. So anyhow, things went on so we decided from the association. All right, we formed the association. Who is going to be president? Nobody don't want to be president. So we say we have to look for president. Buster English had a bar under the CDC. We went to Buster. I went to Buster, I talked to Buster, but he agree. He take the association rule. So by that time now people are paying $2 and thing to come and help us. But what was happening, which I did not like at all, Buster used to take the drinks from his back. And the bar morning goes to his room shop. But we get a lot of leaks already, you know. Anyhow, the calypso start to grow. So we're talking only now about the association. We haven't talked about 10th yet, no? Not really. Not really. So maybe what we will come back to you in just a moment, but let's introduce Pep. You are a child of the 80s, right? So that's quite far removed from the gentleman that we have heard from. Maybe who looks cool. But it's a long time, a long time away. But I was surprised that you entered Calypso because I do remember you as a musician. In fact, your group at the time, together with guys like Duveni, remember you recorded the first RSL music jingle, right? And I was surprised that you were actually involved in Calypso at the time that you were. Tell us, you started around 80, 84, 85? No, actually, my first Calypso, I sang at St. Mary's College in 1978. We decided we used to have little shows in the school. And one of the teachers there introduced the choir and everything and then the music started, you know, happening in the school. We had Duveni at that time, we had myself, we had Adley, we had even Buffaloers in the junior form at that time playing. And we decided to have a school band. So the idea came up to have a Calypso competition in 1978. So as a matter of fact, some of us who were in the school band ourselves were singing. But it happened on the day of the show now. We didn't get the instruments to play. The problem to get the instruments, it was Babzi at Minard Hillet. No Babzi, Babzi, Publiz. That's where we used to rehearse. But we couldn't get the instrument to the college. So we decided, no, we're having our show and everybody's going to sing without back and band. And that year I sang after Hulit, which went on to, well, I won that year in 1978. It became a very, very popular song at that time. And the following year, we decided to continue. But I was writing an exam that year. So I wasn't so actively involved. But as the defending king, I had to go and sing, which I did. And that year, Buffalo won and I played second. And that was it at that time. When I went to A level the following year, I decided to organize a Calypso competition there in 1980. At that time, it was Damian Greaves at that time myself. And there were quite about five of us on the show at that time. I can't remember the others, but I was myself and Damian Greaves and about three other guys, we decided to have the first show there. And I happened to win that year again. I sang something about Fredo, calling Fredo. It's a song, a song I wrote about the principal at that time. That's, that's a Frederick, a very stern principal at that time. And I know there were little jokes about him that I put into a song. And I mean, it went well with the students. So I won that year. Damian Greaves came second. And the second year, we didn't have anything because it was our examination year. So we didn't concentrate on that. So I went into teach right after I left A level. And the following year, I decided to go to Barbados to do my first degree in natural science. So when I, when I went there, they were having shows, entertainment, they used to have island nights and all this sort of thing going on there. And we decided when I came in now to get involved in doing Calypso there. Now there had been Calypso before, but there was a lull and we decided to revive it. And well, to cut a long story short, I spent three years then I won all three years. You know, so I decided, well, when I, when I come back home, I will get into the Calypso. But before all that, I mean, I used to be into pop music. I did a lot of pop music. I wrote a lot of pop songs. And I used to sing with my brother, Petrus, as the petals. And what we did, we did a lot of S supply, the Everly brothers, Paul, Paul Simon and Simon Garfunkel. These were the songs we sang. And we were regulars at the Queen shows. So for example, I remember the night he won the time he sang guy love dance, we were on the same stage, but he wouldn't remember me. We won that because he performed at the Queen show in the Banana Shed. And we sang, what I sang as a Jew and the Petrus. But we were regular in those shoes. And, you know, they used to have the bodybuilding shoes and all these other things. And I used to sing regularly at that. But when I came back from studying in 1985, that was in August, September, 1985. The following year, I decided to jump into the arena and at least see what it was worth, you know. We'll hold that thought and come back to you when we take a short break. Well, audience, I'm sure you've gotten a lot of mind joggers. Memory down memory lane so far, we will be making time available for you to sort of share your own experiences with the gentlemen who are with us this evening. But before we go into our second segment, we can just have some ex tempo music that we will, we will ask Tara to give us one of the songs that would have given you the edge over all the others. So to stand back. When we saw our stock in Russia, the man put up a stage in me, he said, which way to find Stalin? I say, man, what are you saying? I say, man, I ask you a question, he said, no, understand me now, come on. I say, well, if you're okay, I'm not understand. Where can I go sing it in Russia? I feel like you're curing your conditions, living conditions. I can't see my next law. Diminish Stalin, see Galinsky. Diminish Stalin, to send back the surface. So Tara, who would have arranged your music, you know, for you? Well, it was the band was a college men's. As a matter of fact, I played with men's. They had a band, a dance band. We had a house band for gait club at that time. I played with our men's. Were there any other rangers that you can remember, apart from Mr. Menz? Let me see now. Clement Springer did some arrangement. Also with the police band, and Toto. As a matter of fact, Toto taught me to play with trumpet. Well, this is our special program coming to you live from the Monsignor Patrick Anthony Folk Research Center. And we're looking at 60 years of making of Calypso here in Senutia. A special program for Sense Cecilia's Day, which, as you know, is observed on the 22nd of November. Now, we have three distinguished gentlemen, and I like to think of it as waves of Calypso. They represent different times of, you know, of Calypso making in Senutia. For example, we have Tara, who has won the crown since 1957 to 1966, eight times, right? About that, yeah. And we also have on the other end, Pep, who has also won the crown eight times. In between, we have Calypso Monarch in 1987. 81. 81, 81. Jackson. So these men represent different times of the music of Calypso here in Senutia. So, and that spans a period of some 60 years. When we left to hear some music, Pep, you were talking about your first entry into national competition here in Senutia. Yes, in 1985, when I came back from Barbados, I thought seriously about going into the Calypso arena, and of course, I came in late in, around September that year, so I had to wait until the following year in 1986. I must point out, when I was in Barbados, I used to be getting little bits and pieces of the Calypso scene down here. I bought a radio, you know, this shortwave, mhw, this thing. And I used to get little bits and pieces of radio, Caribbean, at that time. And I used to be hearing bits and pieces, and I remember hearing an invader with the yellow man and mother's hole onto your chair and those years. And I said, and at that time, he was fresh on the scene. And there was a big thing about the invader at that time. So I said to myself, I'm hoping when I get back home, if one day I get back, I'll have to see if I could challenge him. Because at that time, I mean, I loved the change that he brought in the music at the time. It was a little different. So when I came in, I decided in 1986 to come on the Calypso scene. So I joined at that time the uprising Calypso tent, which was at that time invader, if invader chassis, Lord helped me and those guys here at the time. So I joined the tent and that year I sang pumping aids and political squabble. And to my amazement, I was first run up to invader at that time. No one could have touched the invader. You know, so coming first was not a bad thing for me. I felt good. So I decided, well, the following year, I mean, I'll have to try and, I mean, place in first round of the first time you had to stay in on the scene. So the following year, I started a very lukewarm season until I'm at St. Mary's College. I thought that's it. I came back to teach at St. Mary's College and Ron was teaching at the time. So one day in the staff room, he came up to me and said, Pep, you know, you came in and you placed first runner up, you know, if we work together, I suspect we can win the crown. At that time, I never knew him as a writer. You know, I mean, I knew he wrote for Jackson, but I mean, as a Calypso writer, I didn't really know him into that because I mean, he was doing science at the school. I never thought of him in the art. So we sat down and we said, well, I said, okay, there's nothing to lose if I place first runner up. I can't get who is the not. I have to, you know, we have to get better. So one day he came up to the staff room and he said, he has an idea. I said, well, somebody had sung about everybody's in abortion and that, you know, from the perspective of the mother, you know, why don't we take a different look at it and look at it from the child? You know, I said, that's a good idea. You know, so we sat and he thought about it and then we said, he said, well, work on a thing. At that time, I went by courts. I got a little Casio, a Casio keyboard. I bought out courts and I started home and I started putting a few courts together and the following day I came to him and I said, I think I have a melody. We sat down and we listened to it. He listened to it and he said, that's good. Satisfied. He went home and within one night, the following day he came back with two verses and we ran through it and he said, that's good. We ran it by the staff members there. He said, boy, everybody was in love with it. People were getting cold sweat, you know, and chills and bumps when they heard the song. So we decided to finish the food bus and we went, we went with it on the quarterfinals night. It was quarterfinals at Gatti Cinema. So I sang it as my second song. When I sang that song, I can vividly remember everybody went quiet, quiet. Nobody's saying a thing and people tell me when they get ghost pimples. The same effect it had in the staff room. When I finished singing, there was, I mean, everybody went crazy and when I was walking offstage, there was an invader standing up with his friends. What's his name? Cubs. Yeah, Cubs was his writer at that time. The guy used to be a striker. When I was walking off, I saw a striker was talking to an invader and he said, I actually watched him do the invader. I said, boy, I got them. So we went on from there. I placed quarterfinals and we went down semifinals and I mean, it was our first, when we came out on that night, it was our first major introduction to the presentation. We had to find a way to present us on because, mind you, at that time, invader was the boss in presentation. I mean, he came out. I was always amazed at how he would be so creative in presenting his songs. So we had to think of a way to get at him. And so we brought in Giovanni Sentomo. It wasn't Luigi at the time. It was his brother Giovanni who came in and he decided to, when he heard the song, he decided to design the costume verse and we went on stage and that was history. We won that here and I think it was a major bluefin invader at the time because he was really, I mean, rank in high and he was the man at the time. And I mean, having won that year, things just went, I mean, I was grateful to the introduction. We decided, well, we're going to work out a little contract between ourselves. Mind you, a global contract. And the following year, we came with Umbar Gorge. We started off as a real mess. I first sang it at the town hall and nobody could understand what I was singing because this was not the type of calypso that you were hearing at the time. And people are wondering what I come, I come sing Umbar Gorge. I mean, I got a very terrible response the first night. So I said, nah, we have to get a man if a violin on stage at our next performance. So we got a guy from Cicero to play the violin first. When we brought him in, he's playing violin on stage. Nobody can hear the violin in the crowd. The band was playing loud and the violin was not mic'd. So nobody was there. And again, people didn't, they didn't understand what it was about, you know, that they hold. So by the time we reached quarterfinals, we had to go to Barbados. We had to send to Barbados to get one of these mics because it was not available here. The mic that you get, the clip on mic. So we got one from Barbados. Somebody sent it down for us. And he was able to be heard on that stage. And from that time, I think he took over the show. Every time that song played, I mean, when that violin started playing, boys, I mean, the place was to go wild. But I suspect it was more, because he had a little gimmick about him that people used to freak out when he was playing on stage, you know. And that just took everything from that. Everybody, I guess, people began to understand what the song was about. And that song went all the way to the finals and the one for me, you know. Well, we can say something about the acoustics at the town hall. All of it goes to the back, you know. And so when people who have played always complain that, you know, the sound was not projected towards the audience, but towards the back. But at that time, you mean that Sion dropped Jackson in terms of writing for him? Is that what you're telling me? Well, I know, I cannot say whether he dropped him because... I'd like to cut in there. Some of my ideas went there. You know something I want to mention? Listening to Pepple, I'm looking at how how much similarity there was in the way we both started. Because I was a schoolboy at the time, St. Mary's College, I was in Form 5. And I decided I'm going to go and sing Calypso. Don't forget I was in the 50s. Yeah, which surprise, because at that time... The brothers didn't take too kindly to that at all. Right, that's what I was thinking. First of all, you know, I went and I went and sing Calypso. I went to the competition, I won the competition, and I came back and I got I got kined. Going and sing Calypso without permission. Taking part in Carnival without permission. After I won the crown, I got kined for that. But then afterwards, we started to warm up to it, you know, and I used to sing in the assembly hall. We had an assembly hall at the time. In the assembly hall at the end of every end of the tomb. I used to have a concert in the assembly hall. And the brothers will allow that. Yeah, by the time I got to St. Mary's, though, the name that we kept hearing was Aquila. Aquila, Andre Arthur. He was the one that people spoke about. But how did you get around, you know, from the... Because by the time... The lack of interest by the presentation brothers. Oh, I just continued singing during lunchtime with the guys around. Eventually the brothers, well, they invited me to sing for them at the brothers house. I guess they wanted to hear what kind of song they were singing, what it was all about. They thought it was all, you know, trash and vulgar things, you know. But it wasn't that. Because first of all, for example, I sang about the, you know, the strike in the valley. That time, people don't know the saying that's too long ago. Sugar strike in the valley and stuff like this. But then when I was... At that time, I had become... I was already a master. Yeah, because you taught. Yeah, I was already teaching. And then when they kind of fell off with me was when I went and sang Wabin government. They were not too amused. Why was that? They just took the song wrong. But I think, you know, that the word Wabin has a certain connotation, right? It was just... But they didn't listen to the song. After they listened to it, they realized what I was talking about. And then, but you know, this relates, this similarity kind of struck me. Okay. I want to hear from Jackson. You were the first person to introduce tents in St. Lucia. Who were the persons that you remember forming the full stent, veterans? I just call his name a while ago. Crusoe, Kerry, myself. Desperate? No, Desperate was not in the full stent. No. Desperate was not in the full stent. Cairo would have been there. Cairo was not in the full stent either. The full stent that opened was about five of us. It was myself, Kerry, Crusoe, Kila. Kila, Mortimo. And Mortimo. Yes. Leon George. And that's when the competition began, right? Then the competition started. But I'll tell you something. I have a long history in that kind of thing. There are things I wouldn't like to say here today because I go through a lot of problems. What? Because you can't remember or because... Microphone cut out in competition about eight times than me. The what? Microphone cut out about eight times than me. Every time I reach in the competition, the mic cutting out. Uh-oh. Right? Until when explainer came here to St. Lucia. He's my friend. I know him. So I'm telling him the same thing I'm telling you. He said, Gaston, sing about it. I said, well, you write this song. He tell me, Gaston, just buy me three joints. You have a typical order? I said, yes. You have a typical order? I said, yes. He went by the beach. And I like that. And when the one starts to sing, tell me, tell me, I want to know why Lord Jackson and Lucky saw in Calypso. I am the pioneer. I promote in Calypso and every year, but still they treat in me with concurrency. I want to know why I bad lucky. In 74, as I open my mouth, just so microphone cut out. Why? Why? I dropped back by singing. I sing the whole, please go man. I say, I have them this year. But only to find out. The guy who's walking with the band carrying the instrument between the instrument is my good friend. This is cousin. And the competition that time, he didn't call all myself. I was not singing yet. Getting to find out. He himself come back and tell me that, you see, that was messing me up. Oh, a guy named Ezekiel. So today, when I passing by the market, when I see him, you see me. He's actually not a dollar. I am giving him. So he's not bad lucky. You were bad lucky. I was really bad lucky. Oh, he times the microphone on his cutting out, cutting out, cutting out by him. But that, that, that year, when I went on stage, where I just like an electrician. Everything. And I had the bank to stop and I go down fixing wires. That year, I came second. I came second that year. I was here, they give King Barry the crown. But as a Calypsoanian, we had, at least we're coming now, moving from your time as the reigning King, we had Barry, we had Desper, we had Carol, et cetera. What was it like working with these guys? Well, when Desper came in, Caly came in, things start to change. In what way? Well, it tends to get bigger. And we start making more money. By that saying, we come on, we change president. We had Vitalis, a guy named Vitalis, I think about David Vitalis. Vitalis, he was Vitalis. Big fella. Big fella, I think he plays in himself or something though. Well, he had he, but when, when the association itself start to make money, it's when a learner become the president. And after a learner become, but only. Let's just talk about terror. You've been a college boy and Calypso at that time was not, you know, as we know it. It was a different, you know, ball game all, all together. What was the reception like for you coming into Calypso at the time? It was mixed. Mixed. The guys who were singing at the time were Cobra, Scrub, you know, a couple of other guys, but the first thing you watch me, some of you have been faced here at college. You see college, you see Gavin, you see how you've been championed. So college boys would not be considered Calypso then. Still educated for it? I guess so, I don't know. But, and then again, on the other side, they were saying what, what is this man going to do singing in Calypso? Mixed in college, they shouldn't be singing in Calypso. That is not his thing. And then all the guys were in the boys club, Belgrif, because when we started singing, that's where we used to have our shows in Belgrif's club in the Conway. But then eventually when he started, after, you know, things really started picking up. What happened is that with me coming in to sing, they brought in a new, a new crowd, you know, and more people started listening to Calypso. Especially, well, I think not, not what happened is that instead of just the one boom boom, one voosong and this sort of thing, I started bringing in real Calypso singing about events, singing about, you know, what things that are taking place. Because one of the big things at that time, when I, there was this sugar strike in the valley where, you know, all the same people get killed and this sort of thing, you know, I sang about that. I started singing things like, like I told you, I sang about the Wabin government, which is the double attack type thing, you know. And so the standard really, really, really started to move up. Okay. Well, when we come back, we will discuss a little more about, you know, your involvement in the competition at your time. Okay. And why is it that you were able to, you know, dominate the scene at the time? I was a good man. You were good. But we also want to look at your rivalry with Zandoli. Yes, at the time and the controversial song, which sort of led you to, to move out of Calypso. We'll talk about that. But Jackson, you want to take us out to the break? A song? A song? I want to hear the people say that now. You can touch a woman on the back side. I would change up the system entirely. I would have a Wabin minister for female affairs. And this Wabin minister won't be more than 20 years. All them hardwired young men who can't get a woman at all. Be Wabin minister, go fix them up free anytime you can call. Terror is regarded as the father of modern Calypso in St. Lucia. But Pep, you are the youngest of all, right? What do you have for us? Well, I'll sing something we did in 1989, Money Talks, because I would relate to society because I've always, when I look back at some of my writings, I realize that it relates so much to what's happening today, you know? In my childhood days, in my simple ways, the world was so noble, everything was nice. Characters were sound, integrity was found, but you was respected, so was sacrifice. What hour? What hour? But the living world around me now is such an awful place, nothing comes without a price. In our struggle for survival, corruption wins the race, chaired on by the voice of vice. Money talks in a language clear and crisp. Money talks with a voice you can't resist. Money talks to the most virtuous man. Money talks and he'll compromise his plan. It speaks to every man of every culture in every land. Whispers if he's near, or shouts if it's hard to hear. A universal tongue, it seduces the old and young. I'm sure you must agree that Money Talks possessively. Good. Whether work or play, whether night or day, to get any success and there's a price to pay, teachers will not teach, nor will teachers teach. If the price of money has nothing to say, the parents of the students in the common entrance class, they know no pay, no pass. So they pay for books and lessons, then they pay for extra class, but each year less brings more cash. Money talks with a voice you can't resist and I go so. Money talks to the most virtuous man. Money talks to the most virtuous man. Money talks and he'll compromise his plan. It speaks to every man of every culture in every land. Whispers if it's near, or shouts if it's hard to hear. A universal tongue, it seduces the old and young. I'm sure you must agree that Money Talks possessively. In times Calypso Monarch in St. Lucia ties with Abterra. Who's going to overthrow who now? Who's going to make it to the next stage? My money's on purpose. Your money's on purpose. Yeah, I do. Well, this time let me recognize the Managing Director of the Cultural Development Foundation who is part of our audience. We also want to recognize Mr. La Force who is the Executive Director of the Fork Research Center. And we also have other Calypsoians and the journalists. So I'll introduce them to you because it's not too long. We have Black Pearl. Nice of you to be with us. Lady Lin, we have Consultant, I would say. Mr. Kennedy Bootsamio, Cecil Charles, of course of TOT. Thank you for joining us. Who else do I see here? We have journalist Tony Nicholas. We have Mr. Teddy Francis, Mr. Sanchez. All, let me thank you very much for joining us. If you have any questions for the panelists by all means, feel free to do so now. Any comments, observations? Well, not you. Well, while we wait. Okay, have something. The Living Shashi. Well, Shashi was a member of the Veteran Tent. I cannot recall what year it was, but I left Shashi in charge of my tent and I went back to Chinidad for a while. I didn't do that at Piaco, yet Shashi had changed the name to Shaolin Temple. Then, Invader and Lord Hedwig come and take it away from him and call it uprising. And now the tent went to Soka village. So this is the tent of the Veterans that have so much name from the Veterans to Shaolin Temple to Soka village. So when I come back, I had no choice to go and join ambassadors and that is where I am now. But Shashi, apart from, you know, the story that you gave, he was a hardworking guy in terms of ensuring that Calypso Indians get to another level, I would say. Yes, Shashi was the one that was writing the board. Those days he used to work for Haiti, writing the board. So he used to write the board for the tent in the name of the Calypso Indians. He was... Well, when we formed the association, I was the first Piaro, right? Then I passed it on to Shashi again. So Shashi carried Piaro name for a long time in the association. He stayed there for a long time. And he always used to call me, Jackson, that's how you're letting the fellas take over from you. So you are the head of the business. Why are you letting the fellas say, well, Shashi, let the fellas do their business, right? They want to run the business and let they run it. Okay. Now, I knew that it is competition. Was there competition mixed with rivalry, camaraderie? What was it all, what was it like in terms of participating in Calypso competition in St. Lucia? Okay Jackson. With the veterans tent, it was camaraderie. There was nobody against nobody. It was to get the... Despite the fact that you were competing. After competition, no matter who. I think Pep can tell you, when Pep won the first throne, where you end up? By you. Okay, you end up at my home. Prince, all of them, that win, you're ending up by me. Okay. Sarah, for you, was it the same? It was not. It was when you started. Yeah. It was that way. Because I remember, well, let me give you a story. The first Calypso competition, the prize money was a grand total of $15. That's what I got as a prize. The prize money was $15. That was the prize money for the Calypso king. So you're saying, basically, and I would imagine Jackson too, it was for the love of the art form that you put on the land. That $15. We had a party the whole night, you know, on that $15. I paid the musician. That seems like we should write a Calypso on that. Out of that $15, you know. But also at that time, so you won't say the other, people like Reggie Clark and Sammy Gage, people haven't heard of, they used to give their own personal check to the winner and their checks were bigger than the prize. Reggie gave me a check for $25 and Gage gave me a check for $50. So we just put that all together, the band, we had a grand time. And that's how it used to be. Because you represent a different generation of Calypsoians. It was mixed when I came in. I mean, in the 10th, there was a lot of camaraderie in the 10th, I must say. When I came in, I was well-received in the 10th. Shasi was my 10th leader at the time. And as you said quite rightly, he was a hard worker behind the scenes. And sometimes we wonder what time, little time he had to go and get his act, knew to come on stage and perform because he was really working very hard at the time. And he encouraged me a lot in the early stages to stay in until for one, two reasons I left and went to ambassadors. But at that time, we had friends. But there was rivalry among certain individuals. I found out there were some persons who took this Calypso competition so seriously. I mean, throughout the 10th, everybody drinking together, we having fun. And on the night of, when does it come to competition, you walk in there and you say, hello to a guy, you refuse to shake your hand, you know. There was this thing going on, fellas wouldn't talk to you. Or you'd come and you'd see a fella in a corner by himself, isolating himself. And I used to find that very strange because, you know, I mean, as I'm a musician and to me, it's all about music and just entertainment. And when I saw that, I mean, I was a little taken aback by it because it was a push them, I saw this sort of thing. But in general, I mean, that was about a handful of person there. That's not a general thing. But among the 10s we used to, I mean, when you go to a 10, I say uprising, go to ambassador. At the end of the day, when 10 finish, everybody by the bar having fun drinking, giving each other jokes and this sort of thing, you know. That's how it always was to me. Yeah, that's how it was. Good camaraderie among everybody. We are going to tell him competition time backstage. You're taking all kind of smell. Yes. Oh yeah, that's the other thing. You're taking all kind of smell of all kind of portions. And don't touch me. Yes, we have a question from the audience. Yes. Yes, that's Christo Laforte's. No, well, because Karoo Karoo used to do that a lot. He would put to the band room and hum this song. He would not sing the words at all. But you can do that. It's a chance you take him. When you reach and see judges listening to you and you make your mistake, you make your mistake. Right. But if you sing your song well to the judges, that's no problem. Yes. Yes, I did write a song and I thought that's when I came back. I wrote the song, but I never got to sing it anyway. So right now, I said, well, maybe tonight I'll sing a boost and a chorus just before you hear what I did. Because I don't remember the rest of it. I wrote it in some way. I'll be good. Peeley and I were very good friends. Because Peeley was from before, I'm from before. And apart from that, Peeley's Uncle was my was my was my boobs. I have to call it. Yeah, Peeley's Uncle, Peeley's Uncle, I'm Herbert Elver. So that's he was he was my living in house of my mother. And that's you know, I grew up with him, you know, so we were very close, you know, and his mother, his name was Marcel and they lived right next door. We lived right next door to each other. You know, so I knew Peeley very well. We were very close friends, you know. And Peeley was, we're talking about competition now. When you see, it was just what Peppo's saying, when our time in our competition, all of us are still friends. Some of the guys, even up to the time of competition, some of the guys are going to Peeley and myself and say, look, Tara or Peeley, you know, I got a line there. I don't think I want to change that line. You think you will help me with that line? And we'll do it. You know, this sort of thing used to happen. You know, so and I know that Peeley used to write songs for some of the guys that used to compete against him. You know, I don't think he used to fix it for them to lose. But you know, he used to do that. You know, this is the kind of person that he was. That's how I knew him. But and the one thing I could tell you is that we competed, he competed against me, you know, but he never beat me. I want to go back to Jackson. Jackson, you had said that you are a bad lucky guy in Calypso, but you won the crown in 1981, right? What was that feeling like when you actually, you know, the crown was placed on your head? But as I told you, before I win that crown, I was getting a lot of problems. Microphone always cutting out until when explainer wrote that song for me. From there, things changed. I said, come in second, right? I come second. Then after, see you all come in the picture now. You write a couple songs for me. I continue getting a little position, a little second, a little third sometime. And then when you come along with guy love dance, that was a big hit. Okay. So at that time, a thousand five, you know, for the king. But I want to know for you personally, what did it feel like, you know, in terms of winning the crown? Well, because you were saying that all before that you were denied more or less, but you win it now. Yes. Yes. Well, I feel that I should them. I start by showing them your cutting microphone on me. So I doing something about it now and it stopped from there. Okay. Okay. Now I say I win. I'm the champion now. Look me. So you felt good. Yes, very good. If you want my shoe, you wouldn't feel good. Now there's something I wanted to see before you. And well, why is loner was president and so on. So I'm a little boy, Mattis. He likes Calypso a lot. So I started in loner. So let us organize a junior Calypso competition. And there was some Calypso saying no rejection. His son, he want to win. His son could sing Calypso one thing. I said, but my son could sing Calypso. Your son could seem to make your son sing. Right. And then after about five years later, they organize the junior Calypso competition. Then Mattis come and win. Then he became the first junior Calypso in Saint Louis. That's correct. Right. And then when he went back to defend, they say he's to all cheeky win and win. And only to find out cheeky was one year older than him. That is why Mattis finished with that. He's saying yes again. Because cheeky was older than Mattis. But we will admit that the junior Calypso competition has grown to the point where it's now performed in schools. There again. Mr. Jerry, I'm feeling proud because all this is me who let us do it. You know, it's me who started and it's growing and growing and growing. Today I'm happy to see the Calypso improving in Saint Louis. Even though I'm winning, I'm placing. But I want to ask you what has kept you because of the three persons on the panel, you are the one who stuck to it for the last 60, 60 plus years? Well, because I love it. I love it. That's what I can do. I can't play football. I can't play cricket. I love cricket, but I cannot play cricket. I can't box. That's my game. But aren't you more or less, I would say, feel out of it because of the type of... To tell you the truth, I am planning to step out because I was very, very, very mad with two people that called in him, three of them on TV, on TV, just before Calypso competition there. And one, the two of them actually said, it's time for the veterans to step out of Calypso, give the young people a chance. But then I find that this fellow should not be saying that. And Neham, Jabatis is one, and Bernard Panis, these two. And Lord helped me stay to them, helped me was there with them. Why you all say that? You all cannot say that. The veterans have, the young ones have to learn from the veterans. Why are you saying that? I'm sure they must have been saying that out of, you know, like a joke. No, but I think that's serious. I will leave it for them. I'll leave it for them. But I think St. Lucia is generally very, very grateful for your contribution to Calypso and what you have done in terms of getting it at a different level, a different direction. The government of St. Lucia has recognized me. Yes. They have given me what I deserve to get to. I have it right on the finish line. Okay, so could you sing your winning song for 1981? My winning song, I cannot really remember all, but I can tell you, it was proclamation. Leave home your ratchets, guns and portals, forget violence, let we play, we must. There's from Canway, Fulaccio, Andy Graveyard, Jasper Peace, we go made in special police. That was written by Sio. So I did not win Chloe's Gailor. A lot of people believe I win the crowns with Gailor's guns. I win the road march and I play second, which I felt I should have been getting a double header. Okay. Right, but it was taken away from me again. But the song that they put in front of me, I had not heard it no way. But Gailor doesn't stick there, year after year. Indeed, indeed. Any more questions from the audience? Oh, I see. Right, yes. At events, so for example, I noticed at the Carnival Finals and so on, you'll see the Carnival Queens with all the carnival contests and like ten of them, sorry, seventy-eight of them, but they won't watch the answer. But as the Carnival Queen, we ever invited to, for example, be the one presenting the crown for the second place runner at the Carnival Queens or whatever What do you also like to say about the fact that you are not involved? It used to happen in the early days. The king would have been singing on the king and queen of the banjo and also at the queen show. But now, for some reason, it's not happening. Calypsoians, for instance, pep is the king for eight years, I think. But every show you will hear in Vida, he have to be there, look the king there, he's not there at all. You know, that is evolution of it, you know. So your question is answered. Things have changed. Yes, you have changed considerably. I mean, he's quite right. I remember in the eighties and early nineties, when I won, king and queen of the ban, queen show, and all other shows, even after Carnival, the king would at least sing. In those days, you used to have a fast and a slow. So you'd come and sing a fast song and then your slow song and at least for a few months after, but for the last few years, I don't know when, I've always said, when I sing at the show, I sing at finals, it's not until finals next year. Now I'm not going to beg anybody to go and sing for them, you know what I mean. But nobody invites you to any show. I mean, that's what goes on. For example, when you are crowned, you'll have a Carnival queen coming and crowning you. Has that been proposed in the sense that the Carnival queen has ever been the one to crown? To crown the king? The Carnival queen to crown? No, that doesn't ever happen. No, no, that doesn't happen. You just perform at the queen show and that's it. It was the same thing. So what do you think about that? The fact that, for example, what I'm saying is that Carnival queen with all the other contestants are given that high privilege, where if you think at the Carnival competitions, but it doesn't happen for the Californian, whether it is, for example, like the Jackson, does he ever get an invitation for the national competition, even if it is not competing? No, no, no, not even to the Calypso competition, not even that. So I think what you're saying is that there needs to be a different set of recognition or additional recognition. The same way other entities of the Carnival are recognized. Okay, one thing I must say, that's the one thing, like you said, anytime you win the crown, you should be invited to sing at the queen show. That was up to even at night time. That's all, you know, but now that's not happening, the Monarch, the Calypso Monarch would sing at the carnival. But Zanderle, sorry, by Tara, I think what he means is that apart from that, we shouldn't wait, and he shouldn't wait until the next crowning for the Calypso Monarch to be involved in things cultural or Calypso. No, I understand, I'm just telling him that that used to happen even in my time, so it hasn't changed. There was the years the Calypso King would be invited to Antigua. But all that stuff, all that stuff is not happening again. Now I promised that we would go back to the year you and Zanderle more or less clashed for the winning of the crown. Do you remember this? Can you tell us about it? Because it's pivotal because it says that it was a result of the results that you sort of moved away from being involved in local Calypso. Well, at that time, during those times, we didn't have any association or anything like this. When it came to the time of the competition, we organized, everybody came together and we organized the competition. And we select people, prominent people to be judges. It's always somebody when he put his mind off. I remember how he was one of the first, who was in Carnival and he was always... But that year, I mean, Pellis took that because it was still a thing, we did all this and it was really a fun thing for us, for everybody. And Salazar said that he was going to select the judges and we selected Howard, Howard Elcock. And Elcock selected St. Helen. Now at that time, there were two judges. They said that the two of them will judge it, they don't need to judge, the two of them will judge. But you know at that time, nobody would, because everybody, you know, so on the night of the competition, I remember that competition was at the town hall. We were singing two Calypsos at that time. So we were still singing two Calypsos and both of them were, both of them used to be judged, both Calypsos. After the first round, everybody's, we're there with everybody. And you know, in this thing after we finish, everybody go at the back and train together and say, boy, I think I won that first round, you know, I think so. And everybody's saying, well, I think Tara went that first round. Tara went that first round. The second round come and fell, when the second round after, after it was, fellas were betting. The Calypsooners themselves were betting as to who do you think actually swung to and through him. That name wasn't there at all, Xando wasn't there at all. The Calypsooners themselves weren't betting. His name wasn't there at all. Nobody betting on him to win. Because first to begin with, his first song was not even a, was not an original song, you know. And then he sang another song, which was kind of smart, you know. But what I want to find out is, did this really tip you off to move away from it? No, no, no, because I sang again after the following year. All right. I sang again the following year. And they were the same two judges. Okay. You know, but you know, at that time, people, we don't worry about these things that I forgot. I guess we were a bit naive at that time also, you know. And I say, well, I was doing it for the fun. Well, thank you so much for clarifying it up. We have Jackson will take us. You have another song that you want to perform for us. Go tell your own. Which one we did. Up to you. I don't know how many people in here know about Getty and Clarke. Getty and Clarke. Clarke, Getty and Clarke cinema. There are two cinemas, right? All right. Well, if I have a choice, I'll sing another one, I said. I'll sing another one. It have a thing some mothers does do. Believe me or not, I'll tell it to you. You got any key? It have a thing some mothers does do. Believe me or not, I'll tell it to you. That's it. That's it. All right. I started the chorus. Anytime I like a girl is just like that. Me, I want to know if she is a jagabat. As long as I make sure she could do the things to make me feel good and go organize with she and do hell with society. Get it now. It have a thing some mothers does do. Believe me or not, I'll tell it to you. It have a thing some mothers does do. Believe me or not, I'll tell it to you. Anytime that you love a lady, they want to know who she family. And if the father does something wrong, he's a criminal in this town. I'll tell you anytime I like a girl is just like that. Me, I want to know if she is a jagabat. As long as I make sure she could do the things to make me feel good and go organize with she and do hell with society. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. And thank you for the contribution that you have made to Calypso in Senusia. In fact, you're credited for bringing structure to Calypso in tubes of the tents. And I think it has lasted for 60 years. And we see improvements, we see challenges, but we continue the journey. Where I ask the audience. Yes. Okay. Ask the audience a question. My audience, do you think I should continue in Calypso or won't sleep? Since Jackson has opened the floor for questions from you, if you wish to ask of any of the three gentlemen to sing one of your favorite songs, we hope that we can accommodate you. I'll sing the one verse. I could do that. Well, while Tara and Martin are searching for the right notes, I just want to go to you, Pep. In terms of what, I mean, you are in the modern era of Calypso. From what you have seen over the years that you've been participating, do you think we added in the right direction? Is there something that we need to sort of change to make it better or to remove ourselves from in order to give Calypsoians a better chance? Well, it's a very, it's a very difficult thing. My concern at the moment is really the structure and organization of Calypso in terms of the tents and the bigger competition. It is through no fault, I find now, of the Calypsoians because, I mean, the cost of production of shoes are astronomical. It's not like before, when, you know, everybody come, you got sponsors willing to give and you organize tents and so forth. It's become very difficult and very expensive. And now everybody wants to grab, everybody wants a piece of the pie. And you find sometimes when you look at what's happening, the Calypsoians are almost push you aside, where a lot of concentration is on production. You know, people want to come in and charge big money to do lighting, big money for sound, big money for this. And then the Calypsoians, who's supposed to be the center of the Calypso entertainment, almost push the side and we cannot make demands for what we want. We cannot, I mean, for example, one thing we've been having a problem with is, for example, the prize money. And as far as I can remember, sometime in 2000, I mean, I won a car in 2002. And at that time, it was $35,000. Well, it was a vehicle and you got some money to insure the vehicle. And in 2017, and it's the same price as $2,000. So we're looking almost of all these years gone by. And every time we make the Calypsoians come together to make an appeal to at least do something, to encourage people to go ahead with it. We always get a slap in the face. And, you know, we are other people who are involved in the management and production, ask whatever price they get for things and they get it without any problem. So in that sense, the Calypsoians, although they are the center of the entertainment and so forth, they are not, as far as I see it, having the benefit financially or otherwise with regards to, you know, the thing. But having said that, I think it is important that we get the Calypso solution back and get persons to manage Calypso. Because I don't think it is right for us to be to be dependent on government year after year. Because when you do that, you can't bargain. If you have to depend on persons to put money into something that you are not involved in, then you can't face them to bargain with them for what you want. So you are almost at the mercy of these persons. So but what is the hold back for the formation of a thriving Calypso association? Well, it's a multiplicity of problems, but I think it started back when the association fell through because of financial reasons. As Jackson mentioned, I mean, we had a fat bank account at some point and over a period of time that went down to the drain. And since then, persons were not wanting to put themselves forward to manage the Calypso. It was a problem getting persons, you know, to stay in the forefront and to, you know, to head the association and actually form that structure. And what you saw, so what you saw happens that the different tents will begin to come together. Those who are real serious and interested in the art form coming together, putting their heads together to at least keep the tents alive. And hence, you know, to keep the Calypso going. So it has to be the heads of certain tents alongside private citizens, you know, the Calypso management committees and these things that have been coming together. So I'm not sure if I'm not sure if it's that persons are frightened to be involved in an association that has in a sense gone down the drain. But we need to have persons who are serious about the art. For me, it doesn't have to be Calypsoians, but persons with management skills, but at least have an interest in it. To come together to try and keep it alive and help structure because the Calypsoians themselves, you've got the individual culture and they don't have those skills. They don't have the management skills. They don't have the skills and so they're not able to get that structure at least among themselves. But there are persons who have the skills who are able, who have an interest in Calypso personally and so forth. I think, I mean, we have some right in the audience and we will take on the challenge. Tara, Martin, you're ready for us? Yes. Okay, let's go. Maybe one thing I want to tell you what the one part of the chorus I'd like the audience to join in and the words are, Peely pass away. You'll know when it's coming. St. Lucia history was gone to eternity. So let me mourn and pray. Yes, Peely pass away. Calypsoians cried that day when Peely passed away. He was a man of Calypso and everywhere he grew. Everyone would agree. Now that it's gone from this world, let me pray that this soul will be blessed by the Almighty. Thank you. Thank you, Tara. We don't have much time left, but it has been a very productive, very informative experience this afternoon. And I am thankful for you turning up and joining us and sharing your experiences and also to bridge the gap in terms of the history of Calypso making in St. Lucia. We hope you'll come back again. I wouldn't address this for you. I really enjoyed the night. I really did not know what I was coming into. I've been wanting to see Pepp since he tied the fingers. And just so you know that I was rooting for him on that night. Well, let me just, all that's left for me to say is thank you very much to the audience. Give yourself a round of applause. Thank you for taking time off to be with us. And these distinguished gentlemen, including Mr. Martin James, who kindly agreed to accompany other Calypsoians. Gentlemen, again, the foundation that you have laid has been something that is worthy of respect. And of course, I think that you've been honored for your contribution in some form or fashion. If not, we will ensure that it happens. Thank you very much for being part of this special discussion. And happy St. Cecilia's Day. We'll see you next year. We'll explain in his own peculiar way. I have an offer for you today. But you're going to give me a chance. Let me teach you my special dance. Thank you very much. Join the Calypsoians.