 let's move on to our second topic this is one that we've been asked several times in our live stream about and I have not answered it because it's worthy of a conversation and that is the future of the Zelda series so essentially the question goes to this will we see a new Zelda game on switch if we are when will it release and are there any improvements like there's another part of this but we'll stop after is there any improvements over Breath of the Wild that we'd like to see I think that's in response to the fact that sorry I was trying not to say his name I always butcher it he uh he recently or not so recently I guess now but he stated that like all futures all the games are gonna be open world essentially so obviously whatever's next gonna build off a breath of the wild in some way so I'm gonna toss that to the hype man himself the whole reason I discovered him because of your zelda theories um yeah well do you think we're gonna do zelda this year what what do we need to start not this year but that'd be impressive I was about to be like yo yo this year what yeah you hear something oh boy what do you thought it's okay all right so like a new zelda game on switch I was actually talking with this with another bunch of a couple of my friends and fellow youtubers about this specifically zeltaic and Commonwealth rum when you see a nerd a nerd new zelda game on switch I believe so absolutely the biggest reason I do believe is because Breath of the Wild what we all know this it was originally envisioned and developed as a Wii U game you know it came on to switch last minute thank God you know I was I will admit I was one of the biggest detractors in life man there we we all the people who bought this Wii U this was supposed to be our game where they're just gonna you know throw us under the bridge like that I'm like okay thank God this game came on the switch like you know I was one of those like yeah I said that I'm gonna hold my L on that but yes this game was built for the Wii U was intended for the Wii U it was not intended for the switch so I don't feel that Breath of the Wild really pushed switch to its full potential yet and I feel that a new zelda game afterwards on Breath of the Wild could do that now interesting that you brought up that what Ajahn Numa said about how this is gonna you know all features of the games on consoles are gonna be open world yes he said that he said that Breath of the Wild is probably gonna be the new standard the new mold for zelda games on the consoles moving forward now I do believe that Breath of the Wild is gonna act as a base even as great as it was I felt like a lot of things within the game felt like a test you know um this thought and this quote Justin I keep whenever I think about things like that about games that felt kind of testy where you know some things didn't feel I wouldn't say complete but it felt like you know they were trying new things but they didn't want to go all the way in with that specific new thing biggest example is Assassin's Creed 3 a lot of people were waiting for Assassin's Creed 3 I was waiting for Assassin's Creed 3 so when me and my brother played this game you know we were like okay it was good but it didn't you know push out all its potential especially with the with the missions that concerned the ship you know when sailing the seas or whatever right so when Assassin's Creed 4 came out black flag when we played we're like this game is amazing and then my brothers like yo Assassin's Creed 3 was basically a beta test for Assassin's Creed 4 and that resonate with me is like he's right you know they tested out the ship features in Assassin's Creed 3 and they expanded them exponentially in Assassin's Creed 4 the game around it right so I feel that the test these new tests that they're that Nintendo is doing with Breath of the Wild you know the open world the physics the dungeons and all that stuff like this new take on what is Zelda there I feel that the next Zelda game after Breath of the Wild is gonna build upon that and you know as we all know with Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask it took you know Majora's Mask was built directly upon Ocarina of Time's engine you know what's to say they can't do the same thing with Breath of the Wild and you know they've even done something like that similar not too long ago with Triforce Heroes and the Link Between Worlds Triforce Heroes directly lifted a Link Between Worlds engine and that game came out two years afterwards you know they can easily do something like that in the same vein of Majora's Mask and Triforce Heroes where they lift Breath of the Wild's engine and then it just expand on that or not even expand on the entire game but expand on maybe one two or even three concepts that made that game great and I feel those concepts physics open world and the ability to do anything at any point in the game how can they expand it and make it better I've talked about this many times with all my Zelda friends and stuff like that and it's like you know yeah the Divine Beast were great the Sheikah Shines were great but playing this game made me yearn for the old school labyrinth style Dungeons of Old that's why I really hope that the DLC pack two champions the champions ballad I really hope the dungeon within that DLC would be another quote-unquote test for Nintendo where they bring back that style of dungeon a big huge puzzle-filled labyrinth style dungeon for Breath of the Wild because we didn't have any of that in Breath of the Wild so they can test that type of feature from the old Zelda games in the Breath of the Wild setting with the physics and you know tweak on how it could fit within those physics and world and then apply that within the next Zelda game and so we can have you know those big dungeons that we've missed you know people like to argue that Hyrule Castle oh yeah you are the big dungeon labyrinth style Hyrule Castle at the end of the game yeah it was huge it was big it wasn't really labyrinth style I can go into any which where I can they hardly had any puzzles you can basically skip the whole thing if you do it right yeah exactly so I want that nice big labyrinth style dungeon where you know there's puzzles there's tricks there's secrets that you can explore and apply that to Breath of the Wild put that on top of everything on on top of everything that made Breath of the Wild great can you imagine a Zelda game with Sheikah Shrines with divine beasts with labyrinth style huge dungeons with underwater exploration because we didn't get that in Breath of the Wild at all how I don't know I can't believe we did with how much water it was in the game yeah exactly can you imagine a Zelda game with all of that you know as great as amazing Breath of the Wild was I felt this game was the biggest stepping stone ever in gaming for something greater and I feel that something greater is right around the bend you know a lot of people say how can you top Breath of the Wild I'm like easy man so easy and you know if Nintendo does jump on that they can easily do something like that lifting Breath of the Wild's engine within the Switch's lifespan so yes I do believe we're going to get another Zelda game on Switch and yes I do believe it can be greater than Breath of the Wild if they apply everything I just said and even more because with Zelda games it's all about surprises every Zelda game has its own surprises and you know I'm no game developer I'm not one to tell them how to do their jobs in the end of the day all I can do is make suggestions but you know they continue to wow me with every Zelda game they come out with so that's what I gotta say in terms of improvements in everything in the next Zelda game whatever I know exactly what Eric's gonna say sold that works for me oh man for me though I I don't necessarily know if we're gonna see another actual full-fledged Zelda game itself I see them I see them more taking Breath of the Wild and expanding it more DLC more DLC type of things than the actual brand new full-fledged Zelda game I see them adding on like new worlds adding the underwater parts to it adding this adding that to it plus it kind of in my honest opinion it kind of sets up a prequel yeah about all the things that happen leading up to Linkva honestly right um that's interesting perspective because obviously the DLC has been so far a success I know it's just master mode and some new costumes and masks and everything but and oh can't forget the trial obviously that's like the biggest thing for a lot of people is added to the trial uh what's crazy to me I guess about the DLC so far and why I don't know what they're gonna do more is that the DLC is supposedly coming out in the next two months and we know next to nothing about it we have like a little like what is it 15 second clip yep Lincoln's all the riding together Zelda riding by herself with some soldiers and then Zelda heading into the room the throne room in Gerudo and talking to uh whatever what's it whatever is the queen there little girl um and it's like yeah we know that we know it's called like the champion's ballad that's great but we know nothing else and it's almost here yeah um it's almost the opposite of it's not like it's gonna overshadow Mario Odyssey I mean it's yeah right right but it's almost the opposite of Mario Odyssey I feel like they shared way too much of Mario Odyssey but they're not sharing anything how much they shared a breath of the while before it came out and now it's like oh we have this new DLC huge the most important DLC pack of the game coming out and you know nothing about it and it's just buy it because it's trust us yep um which I already bought it so yeah it's what it's what it is then they had me sold like it's zella and I you know whether or not they could do the good DLC or not I don't know like this is this is the litmus test for zella and if they can do a good DLC because I think if you know because they said they have a new dungeon and as HMK mentioned with the dungeon you know is this going to be an experimental a big labyrinth style traditional zelda dungeon in this world um to to kind of set things up for the next zelda game or future DLC as as Eric is thinking and I I think I'm trying to temper my expectations because sometimes uh there were references leading up to the release of breath of the wild that the shrines were the dungeon replacements and I worry that they're just when they mean new dungeon they just mean a few new shrines um I hope that's not the case I don't mind if there's new shrines but like that can't be the big dungeon uh I would not have paid 20 bucks for some extra shrines yes you would no I would not yes you know I would have just watched it on youtube huh uh I'm I'm dead serious if I knew ahead of time I was just paying for new shrines uh after playing 120 shrines and having basically like here's 30 of one shrine 30 of another shrine 30 of this shrine 30 of that shrine having to be the exact same thing over and over and over again um outside of like the really cool ones like eventide island um no I would not pay money just to play what I've already played uh and that's what I worry about with that I mean it could be a fifth divine beast and they have another dungeon that's like that but as much as I thought those dungeons were nice uh they you know I I guess that's what Nintendo would call a traditional dungeon I guess in the game uh they lacked originality uh while it was really cool some of the different aspects that were based on like which champion it's after between wind and and climbing on a mountain with the lizard and all this stuff that's great but the dungeons themselves didn't feel themed in that fashion right all four of those dungeons felt the same just from our presentation wise from the mechanics I mean you're doing the same thing in each dungeon you have the exact same goal in each dungeon and you're fighting four very very similar bosses which I understood story wise it made sense yeah but it's like the those could be sub bosses this could be mini bosses and there could have been something else on top of that like like why didn't we fight a dragon yeah there's literally dragons flying around the overworld and we never really have a true battle with one the closest we get is when we're trying to free one like there's a moment in there where you can go free one and you're shooting the stuff off it just like you are in the stupid divine beast it's like it's the same thing just on a dragon it felt like there was some missed opportunities with boss fights I think boss fights were probably my biggest thing I didn't like about Wrath of the Wild that I would like to see them improve in the next game I'm okay if they don't have labyrinth style dungeons I would like them but they're never really why I played Zelda anyways I played it for the adventure for the exploration and for the boss fights so I was really disappointed in those boss fights the fact that my favorite fight is a optional mini boss in the middle of a desert that reminds me of a certain boss from the Wind Waker um that's my favorite encounter in the game and you could go the entire time and never face it because there's no purpose to to have to face it it's just you find it through exploration yeah it bothers me uh that like even fights with hynoxes or like fights with linals there's linals everywhere and like those are a bigger deal than fighting a boss yeah like what I thought like linals and zelda too they were really really hard but the bosses were harder so yeah yeah you're right linals and this seem to warp your end and then you get to the full disclosure I have never beaten a Lionel in Wrath of the Wild I've been everyone you tell me I've been out so many fans tell me here's all you do it here's the tricks you do this thing to the head or you get out of this back you do this I'm like that's great I understand how to beat it the problem is I tense up every time I get close to one and then I die I'm just so afraid it's gonna one shot me it's gonna I'm one shot it's so what you need to do right is you're just gonna lock up to one and just shoot an ancient hour and you're done yeah I I try not to because I feel like ancient heroes are just cheating it's like it's like the golden gun from golden eye like no skill no skill man they they cost a lot they're hard to find I don't want to like that those are okay my first time through the game in normal mode I I was trying to prepare for my fight with because with how hard linals were I it's a bad assumption but I assumed the final fight was going to be like balls to the walls hard and that I was because I'm like man if they have enemies this hard in the game how hard is the final fight going to be like they've been building it up this whole time it's got to be just epic even though the boss fights themselves were just you know not even as hard as online though it's still one of those things like okay that's fine those were just manifestations those weren't the real deal the real deal is going to be insanely hard which the final form just disappointing but so I decided you know what the most powerful arrow in the game is today ancient arrow so I'm like I'm gonna farm supplies and I farmed for like god I wasn't even good at taking out guardians at that time so like I would go to that one minefield of guardians um where they're all dead except for like two of them walking around yeah um and I would just kind of sneak around and just keep jacking parts and keep jacking parts every once in a while I try to take out one of the guardians probably die I'm good at taking them on that but back then I wasn't um and so I farmed and I I built up like 50 ancient arrows I'm like I'm set to go to this fight you get to the fight the ancient arrows don't do anything they're just like a normal arrow they're useless in the fight basically so I built up all these arrows spent all this time on these really expensive items that basically I'm just walking around and killing one shining guardians with now because I don't need them it was like oh man I did all this preparation and I just didn't need it I'm like this is this is disappointing I mean granted that's my fault obviously I didn't do any research I didn't know anything that was going to happen but um yeah boss fights to me are the big thing I want to see improved in the new Zelda game as for will there be another one on switch it comes down to uh what Nintendo has intended because if there's going to be more DLC for Breath of the Wild after this I think they would plan that out before release I think they already know and they're already working on it um because I could see them you know we bring up games like Majora's Mask in the past when Majora's Mask uh you know well it's a fantastic game one of my favorite Zelda games ever to many people at the time I felt like a side dish to Ocarina of Time so to avoid the side dish effect they could just release another 20 or $40 DLC pack that's basically Majora's Mask and just attach it to Breath of the Wild that everyone already owns um and they I mean you can't tell me that one drive massive hype especially as long as it has the right trailer and the right amount of content right and this testing ground that HMK mentions kind of proves like if this is a full labyrinth style dungeon that has this big epic boss fight and everything just is awesome and you see all this potential and all of a sudden you know three months from now they have a Nintendo Direct they're like oh by the way we're having a $40 DLC pack coming out that has like eight of these epic dungeons and uh this entire prequel story and this and that and at some point you get to play as one of the champions or play as Zelda and like they just go nuts and okay this is like a whole brand new Zelda game for 40 bucks sold yeah uh but Nintendo's never done that it's sort of like be like oh Nintendo's just gonna do that all right I mean it's possible it is possible we don't know the thing is the future of Zelda is unknown until we get past this DLC and we start getting any sort of hints because usually you get hints early on oh we're working on a new Zelda yeah it's all you need to know working on a new Zelda um will we get one another one at switch barring something crazy like that which I think is possible and if that releases it's copy next year because they already have everything all the assets built um yes I say that tepidly because Nintendo uh it's been a while Skyward Sword was an exclusive on Wii but it released way late in the cycle and I almost argue it would have been better if they would have found a way to make it work on Wii U and have that as a launch title uh like they did with Twilight Princess and all like they've done with with Breath of the Wild but it's at the same time it's kind of that we're at the beginning of a cycle it usually takes three to five years to make a Zelda game likely it's been five for consoles all the game and if you look five years out from now is Switch really are we not talking about Switch 2 at that point um I mean I hate thinking that right like five years from now oh my gosh but you mean really let's think about it most console cycles are five years yeah uh so it's like yeah at that point it's like well should we get it and do we want it to have that Skyward Sword release late in the cycle or do we want it to launch the next system and end up doing Breath of the Wild did which worked for him last time obviously the caveat is what HMK mentioned you know in the past we have seen Majora's Mask come out two years later we've seen even Spirit Tracks you know he didn't mention that one that came out two years after Phantom Hourglass because Phantom Hourglass became the highest selling portable Zelda game of all time and they wrongfully thought that it was because people loved it and so they released another one and it bombed some of it's because of the trains and some other stuff but reality was that a lot of people bought into it because it was like the best looking portable Zelda game ever at the time but a lot of user reviews on it weren't too kind mostly because I think people expected it to be the WinRaker 2 and it really wasn't that it wasn't but people thought it well that that was gonna be because the WinRaker ended in a way where okay there actually is like they kind of set up a potential WinRaker 2 but never happened and and apparently they actually had a WinRaker 2 plan at one point but then the scrapped it from the front so yep there's all that there's some interesting history I know a lot of my Zelda that's what happens if you cover the series for 18 years but yeah it's it's a really interesting prospect I think that if they go that route and they basically reuse the entire engine which I would be so disappointed if they just threw out this physics engine after one game right oh no dude I would be mad actually like they spent so much time on this engine and I'm not saying they haven't spent time on other engines but Nintendo has this really bad habit of just throwing out there is all the game engines and starting from scratch like every time and they caught on to something here that isn't as HMK said it is not complete this is not the full potential of what they have here this is a start and this has been my issue with Zelda games over the years is that Nintendo has always felt like they need to throw in that gimmick they need to throw in that one new feature and build the whole game around it instead of perfecting what they have now maybe they thought when Ocarina of Time came out it was perfect they can't do better than that so we need to just gimmick it out for the next decade but I honestly don't think Ocarina of Time was perfect I think there were a lot of things that could have been improved upon but they never really did and then Breath of the Wild happened and rewrote the whole game again and it's like okay great but this isn't it like I know it can be done better a lot of people that think this game is perfect that's great I'm glad you think it's perfect it is my favorite game of all time and I know it's not perfect I know it can get better and sometimes it's the possibilities of it that make me just get so hyped about all over again but those possibilities aren't in the game even underwater exploration some people probably rolled their eyes when HMK said that because there are some people that just hate underwater stuff hold on let me put on my blue tunic blue tunic and up and I understand that but there is another side to it the people that love that slow down in gameplay that thinking that that management of can you breathe can you not breathe underwater combat is just a different thing and I understand it can be vastly different from the game but it can still fit within the world because it makes sense go swimming you're slower yeah I mean some people might feel it's been faster than they run I guess but in general if you're going to be exploring an underwater world you're not going to be doing that at the same speed that you would be exploring on land right um maybe you have a jetpack underwater one of those yeah wow there's always ways around it but that technology might not exist in Hyrule I shouldn't say that all technology exists in Hyrule right they have steam trains they they they have magic walking around robots that shoot laser beams from their eyes now yeah uh they they they have they are like literally flying beasts that the Sheikah build uh that's another thing like the game is perfectly set up to hey can we go back to when the Sheikah were like this big all right thing right you it's happened like two times in Hyrule's history where Sheikah was like the big deal right there is way way back before Skyward Sword like they were a huge deal in the backstory of Skyward Sword and then there were a huge deal and even before the the the events of Breath of the Wild started apparently somewhere after Ocarina of Time and this period the Sheikah became like this big deal again and built all these robots and did all this stuff and we've never actually lived an era of Hyrule where the Sheikah are that prevalent yeah um so like I don't know why Nintendo I'm a Zelda fan I want a Sheikah prevalent game come on we all see thought we were gonna get it with Breath of the Wild and it felt like it yeah it felt I mean because you see all the previews you're going to the shrine you're getting to meet some ancient Sheikah people um you know impussed back and you have the the researchers and you're just like man this feels the Sheikah symbols everywhere you're like oh my god they had such a huge impact can we learn even if we learn what happened I want to I want to know what were they doing what do they build why we have oh they built it just in case and it's like what just in case of what yeah just I just beat him with just like in Ocarina of Time like oh I beat him with a fishing pole I beat him with weapons that he dropped for me to beat him with so it's like it's like if I could do that then why did we need all this tech to stop him then that's always been an issue with me was all the games the general is like they build up these bosses to be the big bad things then you finally find them like that's it like this is what I had to gear up for the last you know 20 40 50 hours of gameplay when I beat him with items I got at the beginning of the game and never lost a heart I literally probably could have just thrown a chicken at him and he probably would have died oh well you can't kill chicken so I mean yeah yeah cuckoo armor baby yeah I do I love when you get uh this is how I was actually planning to defeat my first Lionel is throw a cuckoo at it yeah that would work actually it would it would because I've seen videos of it taking out enemies so I'm like that would be sick like I get it to like fire a lightning thing at me but I dropped the cuckoo there and I run and that led the lightning hit it and they would just do a lot of time I thought about that's well I don't even have to do the work I just have to time one little thing and I win yeah just like when people get the Lionel's and the uh the Hinox is the fight and everything but yeah Breath of the Wild is just full of potential potential that's never fully realized but that doesn't make it a bad game it just means that there feels it feels like Nintendo has a clear direction to go in my opinion with the news out and whether or not they do it I don't know because Nintendo never does what you expect them to do but yeah I think Nintendo wants to get a new Zelda game out on switch they want to they want to they want to Majora's Mask this thing that they want to build on top of the hype of this game by releasing a new game as fast as they possibly can not too fast like not next year you know 2019 2020 I could see them wanting a new Zelda game to land then especially when you're talking about okay well now we're getting three four years out from when Mario and Zelda came how was the next one is on the cover yeah right now yeah um you know you want to release it soon enough that it's not the end of the generation unless Nintendo is going to pull a Sony Sony have like the the best final year of PlayStation 3 like ever I've never seen a company like we're going to release a bunch of big AAA games in the final year as we're launching PlayStation 4 and then next year we're just going to port all those games yeah right I hope that was amazing but Nintendo's never done that they have a history of we're just going to let it fizzle out we might give you one game yeah that's going to fizzle out we're not going to give you anything I mean look what's happening with 3DS right now I mean we're getting Pokemon but that's not Nintendo first party that's technically a second party studio making it that they don't own so what's the big Nintendo made you know a Metroid Samus Returns a remake I mean Samus Return was it I played the game it was great it was great yeah I'm not knocking the game but but it's like that's not like that's not a big game that's not like you know an Animal Crossing or another Mario game or something it feels like the games we are getting are kind of side dish games and some of that I think is because they're trying to phase out the 3DS but that's kind of my point is once you start getting to like the end of the generation for a device Nintendo kind of starts like not making really really great games for it anymore that that people will go out and buy a system for I don't think there's a lot of people that went on a lot of 3DS play Metroid I think it's just people who already owned it said hey sure yeah or gigantic Metroid fans well obviously I mean they do exist they exist for every game as much as I crapped on Metroid before in terms of sales the people that do buy Metroid really really really buy every Metroid and I can't wait for Metroid Prime 4 all right I'm ready for that game oh I'm I'm so ready I've been like I don't even understand why Metroid Prime 3 got crap it was so good I'm just I'm ready to go