 host of Journeys of the Mind, and today we are so pleased to have Kumu Hula, Carol Lee Nishi with us today to talk about her over half a century working with the wonderful organization HHK at the New On A Why, but let's begin a little bit before that. This is Kumu Carol Lee. This is the show about journey, and so perhaps you could tell us a little about your background. I mean where you went to school and what you did before you joined, and I've not joined but founded HHK. Yeah, that's an interesting question. I have to think about that. I think Hula has been a part of my life since I was nine years old, and the teacher that I took lived in Kaimaki, and we lived in Kailua. When I first met my teacher, her concern was she said, well, you live so far away, will you be able to come and always be there and the kids that were there lived right around the neighborhood. I mean like two houses away was Leslie and then the block down and everybody was neighborhood, and so they would get together a lot more, and if they just decided to do something, I was way over in Kailua. It took us at that time. We didn't even have the hairpin turn. It took an hour and a half just to get there, but eventually the years went by and my mom was very dedicated in making sure I got there on time, and 11 years old, 12, I became very active when I was in high school. Prior to that, my family, myself, my sister, even cousins, we had no background in Hawaiian music or the Hula, so I became the one and only representative of the Hawaiian culture, and it was not a big deal. I don't think anybody needed to be involved, but I was just kind of a lone soul in our family unit, but people were very interested, but I was the only one in the family, so there was, like other the kids, every brother and sister, uncle and auntie, they were all playing the ukulele and dancing and everything, and for me, my background was just me and myself only, but it turned to be just the opposite now that I'm really involved, but I'm 80 years old, and that's quite a distance from my background, but I can't say that I was surrounded, like many of my other students say, they're surrounded by the culture and the song and the dance, and everything that I know today, I taught myself or learned maybe from one person, because we were very good friends, and she was a very popular community person, Genoa Keavi, most people would recognize her name, and it was, I would say from the time I was in college, kind of because I was available and I drove and she didn't, it became a situation where she needed a ride and I could drive, and so it became a kind of a twosome, you know, if she had to be there, I was there too, and if I couldn't be there, she just never showed up, and it's not like she didn't have 12 children, but they were often running and I just became the go-to person, so I learned a lot from her, without really trying to learn, it was just, you know, when you're just with someone all the time, you pick up whatever they say, and I think that's where I majorly became perhaps what I am today, because, and I think back, it's kind of what would Genoa say, kind of a thing, you know, but yeah, for a long time, she was my only connection to the world of, you know, history and music especially, and this is really interesting, but I learned how to play the loop over the telephone. I mean, I was in college by the time I even decided that I wanted to learn to sing, even though I knew her before that, our prior relationship was just my hanging out and learning things and being here and there, but yeah, by the time I was maybe 19 or 20, I was, you know, we'd call late at night, and she would just say things like, get the ukulele, okay, you see the bottom string, put your finger on the first, second, third string, and it was as silly as that. And so when I tell people, I never had a person to first and less than, they just said, no way, you know, but it's kind of interesting. I wanted to learn and when you want to do something, it doesn't matter how you just learn, you know, but this is, this is true. And so, you know, you talked about, you know, you're growing up and your college years, but like, you know, I understand that you worked for Pan American for a while, and was that a long-term job? Did you work for other airlines? Let's see. Now, why was I there? I went to the mainland right after I graduated high school for summer vacation, not to go to school. And we had very dear friends that lived in Oregon, and they were saying that, you know, the University of Oregon is in Eugene, Oregon, and they were kind of like encouraging me, oh, come up here. You can stay with us. And, you know, they just enjoyed the friendship of who is now my husband, but Ron was their friend first because they, school teachers came to Hawaii for their summer vacations and met my husband and his, you know, Beach Boy gang. And then they couldn't believe that he had a girlfriend. And they were so anxious to meet me because they just didn't believe that he really had a girlfriend. And it was as silly as that. But after we met, we became very good friends. And I would have to say at this point in my life, they were a huge, huge influence at the age of 18, 19, 20. And although I stayed at the University of Hawaii for a little while, I did go to the mainland right shortly after that. And yeah, I think I didn't do anything about elaborating the, you know, my background in Hawaiian music or anything. It was after I came home from college and, and just became not by my request or desire, but I lived on a street in Hawaii with my mom. And there were three girls that were ages like nine, 10, 11, and they wanted to learn the hula. So I did teach them at my mom's self, not even thinking to become a hula teacher or anything. But at the same time, I was at the university and came back to UH and just took up the Hawaiian language with Larry Kimura, who ended up sitting next to me as the, what do they call that? What's that award we have? Living Legend or something like that. Anyway, he was one of them. But about my work with the United Airlines, I started when I went to the mainland, and it was not anything of a desire or a consideration. I spent the summer there just because my husband was going to school too. And I just applied and they just gave me a job, three jobs right away because of my printing. As silly as that, they wanted somebody who could write nicely. And so I did. I accepted the job. And the department I was first entered at United was POA, Performance Operations Analysis. We would take all the information daily from the aircraft and I would keep charts. And of course, it was all printed, very fancy. And the entire maintenance base of about 4,000 people would refer back to that board. And it was all my work. And so that's how I started. And yeah, that's all history after that. Well, that's wonderful because as preparing for this wonderful interview, you have two children, you have a husband. And then you tell us about the founding of HHK. And I'm going to ask you some questions after you tell us about your founding. Because my understanding is that you worked in developing this Huey for over 50 years. And you did such a wonderful job. And you, you know, for many years it was at the new on a YMCA. But I'm going to let you do the talking. So how did you found this organization and tell us the story? Okay, actually, I wasn't at the point where we actually did start. And when I did develop, I was not interested in starting a hula group. I was just taking notes from somebody who was asking me, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you teach the girls a number because we're going to go to a place called Expo 70 in Japan? And I said, I can teach them a number. I didn't have a lot of things at the time going on. But the people who see because my work in San Francisco where I first started with United, they sent me home for the summer in Hawaii. And the only in order to be involved with the company, they put me into a position was just called red carpet room. And of the four hostesses, one lady who was kind of the leader of the four people who worked in there asked me to teach her daughter. And that was my first experience in teaching and starting HHK. She lived in Kapuna Hala. Within three months, my father who was the Attorney General for Expo 70, it was a World's Fair in Osaka. He just came, I mean, a real casual conversation. He said, can you go to Japan next week and do a put together a small hula show? And I said, I don't do shows, but I have four girls that I've been teaching for about two months and I can bring them. And so that's what it was. That's how it started. Hula, they, the first thing they, the MCs are wonderful MCs and they were right out there, you know, and all the way from Hawaii, you know, and they're talking in Japanese. And, and, and she said in Japanese, which I understood, she said, I'm not going to know what I'm talking about. That means what is the name of your group? And I went, well, they all go to Kapuna Hala Elementary School. So it's the, it's Kapuna Hala Hula Club. So when I came home after that interesting experience of entertaining before we were even able to entertain, my friend, you know, he said, you don't want to call it Kapuna Hala Hula Club. Use the Hawaiian words, hula, hui, o Kapuna Hala. And so that's how we got our name. And I've never changed it. Now, that was so many, that was Expo 70. The view can, if this is 23, that is like 53 years ago. And that's how we got our name. And that's where we started because I just had those four girls. And the house that I was teaching at, which was my friend from the red carpet room, Masako's right side, the left side, the house in the back of her and the person across the street. So with the four sides, and the girl that lived in there, Masako's daughter, there were five girls, and they were the ones who first started. And it was just like, Oh, anti Carol is here. So everybody come, you know, and they wouldn't even phone call. They just scream and want to cross the street, run over and have one next course, which is so we were all within this sense, you know, of a kind of a star like group. And that's how we got started, actually. And you know, I can't even say we can look back because we just went forward the whole time. And here we are. Gosh, I mean, what is this 19, this is 19, 2000, but it's been 50 something years. And, and we never stopped. We never took a break. Yeah. So from that, I'm glad I got the half century ride. Although I missed the airline. So I'm glad you corrected me in terms of United and United is still is still big. And forgive me, my father flew for Ben American. So it just came to the brain. But of course, it was united. So for the fool who we all the Puna Hala, the biggest question I have for you is, what as a teacher, were you trying to impart to these, everyone from a toddler to people who receive social security. So you had a huge group. When I first came to the new one, a Y and I saw there were like 50 to 100 people in your in your room. So very huge. So what were, what were the main principles that you were trying to impart to your students? Okay, I would have to admit that when I first started, and even when I went to the Y, because it was pretty much beginning years, I was not a developed teacher at all. It's just that our very my husband's closest friend had a brother, Bob Masuda, who ran the YMCA. And he just knew I was a dancer. And oh, you can teach, you know, hula here. And so I started with his secretary. Anyway, key people within that new one, a YMCA, like the Gallup, the front desk, the president's wife, our branch manager's wife, you know, it was people they tried to screw up. I wasn't looking for anybody. But they so thought that, well, we have a hula teacher. So let's get somebody in there. And every one of those ladies that they recruited on their own, who all did not want to learn hula, turned out to be extremely successful and lots of fun. And I think for Robert, who thought, wow, she can, you know, take these five ladies who were really non interested at all. We should start, you know, hula group here. And so they advertise very little response in the beginning. And I think in any organization, when you start, you need to take those starters, work with them closely, make sure they're successful. And they're the ones that are going to attract people to come into the group, not you as a teacher, for sure. They don't know you. They never heard of you. What's the product? What's the end product? And these ladies were the ones, I think, in any organization are the ones who drew people in. And they were popular people within the community. It's been so long, maybe about 55 years ago when we started. And but I would say they recruited maybe about 15 people at the most, mainly relatives and people who were close to the membership there. And from there, we just grew. And I don't know how it grew. It's just I worked so hard. I don't remember. In the beginning, it was just really people recruiting people. I had nothing to do with it because it wasn't my ambition to start a hula group nor create a big halau or anything like that. I was just teaching people. I mean, I was also working full time at United Airlines at the time. And I had two children to take care of in their younger years. And teaching hula was not a large amount of time because I would just put in a Saturday morning, maybe two hours. And then it started to grow after that because then I had this children's group and an adult group. And then you had teenagers and it just maybe in about a process I would say in about five years. And I never was absent. It was never, never late, never absent, never without a full lesson. And I think even though I was young, I didn't know that that was a good thing. I do know now and I tell people, if you're going to do anything, you've got to run the gamut. I mean, you do everything you have to do. Don't try to build on nothing. Yeah. And you've really got to be true to your students and really help them. I would stay over time and pretty soon we did shows like Aloha Week right on Kalakaua and close the streets up in Aloha Week. We did things like that. Never got paid. I mean, until this day, we don't get paid, but now I think they would pay us, but we don't gravitate to any of those kind of jobs. We do pretty much everything community affairs. Yeah. But you do, I've seen your huge Christmas concerts at Waikiki Hotels and also at Kahala Mall and what used to be called the Kahala Hilton and so you got done all over the community. I was, I'm in wonderment about you going and collecting tea leaves from a farm that you have and getting all the materials and having people make their own hula skirts, et cetera, et cetera. But the question I have for you now is, and because my youngest daughter was so fortunate to be in your, who are you from at the age of three to the age of 18, so many years, but she can get up and dance hula at any point in her life and for the rest of her life. But what I'm interested in, especially in this time where students get trophies just for participating in a sport, you had a sense of discipline, especially for young people, which I think is lacking in today's American society. And let me just preface this by saying you would have the children eat after the adult, which is not what we used to do in AYSO soccer. So if you could just expound a little bit about your relationship to the youth because it seems so wonderful and a refreshing reminder of how children can be well trained. That's, you know, you throughout, you know, my tour with the Y and with HHK, and now it's been 50-something years, I think you have to give them the responsibility to take care of themselves. But I noticed that the one thing that works really quickly is if you take a child that has never been disciplined and is known to be really super rascal and to disrupt class and everything, all you need to do is bust out the compliments. You know, Jennifer Ackerman, you are such a good leader, and I noticed how you, you have a lot of people following you. So whatever you do, you're the role model. And I really appreciate that. You know, when they think that you think of them in a very good way, they become good. They don't want to be the real, I don't know what they're like, but I kind of remind them, even when they leave class, I'd say, thank you so much for being a great role model. Everybody is so disciplined in this class. And I think it's because of you, and maybe not so. But then that's okay, because that was just me and that person, whether they really were disciplined or not. Nobody else would hear that conversation. I would just make them feel like they were really the leader. And I think that's a guarantee when a person, even if it's an adult, when you tell them how important they are and how helpful they were to your goal, they deliver. Boy, I mean, they even start to act the role, which they never were in before. I don't think it was, I never thought of it as a trick, but I thought of it as a way to keep them in place. And I have a lot of leaders today, and I'm not even there full-time since the pandemic, you know, opened up and Robin's kind of taken over massively. And when I go, I just really kind of watch. And the only thing that I can do now is to make sure that the language and, you know, the motions are all kind of, I guess, does well to the industry and not to just teach things that are fake, you know, but to do the real thing and make sure that everybody understands the language and the motions and everything that they do. So my participation now is quite limited, but it's very nice for me to observe what's going on and that everybody's doing a nice job. You know, interesting to see how some of them are so dedicated, never absent, and still, you know, Robin and Dara were very close friends, started at three years old, and now they're 55, I think. I don't know, something like that. And then there's Joy Quincell and her sister and Crystal. And anyway, many of the members who started young, they're still there. And it's interesting to see, I have to say that they will copy whatever I did. They just, they don't ask, they just say, well, that's what Andy Carolee did. And so I have to be really careful to make sure that what I'm passing on is, you know, is it effective and, you know, helpful to the children that are brand new students, but we're very lucky that way. You would address them. I always liked the fact that you addressed them by last name. Ms. Ackerman, Ms. Winneke, stop talking. You know, Puma was talking. And, you know, you were, I mean, it's light discipline, but it's forceful discipline at the same time. And you kept people in line. And, you know, this is what I was talking about in terms of the youth of today who often are not disciplined. And you did the great discipline in a very kind way, I may add. But let me ask you a question about continuity, because you're, as you said, and by the way, for our audience that does not know, I mean, it wasn't just dance. It was music learning the ukulele, learning Hawaiian words and meaning, which is so critical for the culture. But what made you hand the mantle off to your wonderful daughter, Robin Boroka, formerly Robin Nishi? Because, you know, with your exacting personality and with your love of Hawaiian culture, I'm sure that you thought deeply about this. And I'm going to ask Robin at the end to sort of poke her head in so people can see her. But what made you pass on the torch to your daughter? Well, actually, I don't even know that I even approach them. I think through the years, you know, they would sub for me or there were too many students and we would hand off this group to them. And we did a lot of outside things like Keiki Hula, a lot of performances. And it was absolutely required that they help, because I couldn't do it all. By that point, there were just too many children, I mean, and levels. You know, you can't teach somebody who's been there for a year, who's been there. The other one's been there for 18 years. I mean, you know, there's a real difference in background and knowledge. And I think without planning or developing any kind of structure, it just fell into place. You know, we have the Quincell sisters. I have Lordy, I don't even know how old they are, maybe close to 40, 50, I don't know. But Joy is a doctor today. She has her own following. And her sister, I guess, has achieved a couple of master's degrees and very, they're very accomplished. I think that's the bottom line. And you know, when you, you know, in life, you need role models, you need good people to surround you so that other people who join the Huey just kind of like enjoy seeing or meeting people within the Huey and kind of follow, you know, like, I don't want to be derogatory, but there are certain economic groups and geographical areas where the children play together and they're not necessarily talking about going to college. I mean, I can't wait to get out of high school, you know, and do a job and things like that. But those same people who belong to the Huey, it's wonderful because they are exposed to another group of people who are accomplished, not necessarily their friends, not necessarily their teachers or their kumu koku, but just looking and working together, whether it's performance, rehearsals or what, there is a great deal of influence within Huey's, within clubs. You walk in there, oh, that's so-and-so. And while she graduated from college, you know, and they like to compare, I mean, if you're an actor and you're going to go to college where they even could make it or not, and you're going to graduate whether you studied or not, you know, you're just in line with that, you know? And so there's no question. But then that's not going to be the DNA for these kids who grew up in parks and stay out all night and parents don't care. And I think we kind of took care of a lot of that, you know? You did. And let me just-Robin, can you put your head in so we can speak as our time is up? But I want people to-there she is, okay? That's the two beautiful women together. And of course, Robin's husband and Carolee's husband, Ron and Lance, help also. Let me finish with Journeys of the Mind by saying this. We were so impressed at Pune Ho School in the Pueo program with both you, Carolee and Robin, that we would reserve-that we only reserved for principals at the DOE, spots where they could nominate people for Pueo, but there were two people in the community that we allowed to do this. One was Matt Levi and his program, martial arts program, and the other was Carolee Nishi and Robin Nishi for the Pueo program. So I'm going to leave you guys with the last words. So thank you very much for participating in this interview. So any words to wrap up, both of you, Carolee and Robin? Thank you. No, we appreciate it. And, you know, we really appreciate you letting us be a part of that Pueo program because that has been so wonderful for the students. And I think everything that mom does and we do is it's really all about providing opportunities for the students that we have. And then we leave it up to them to kind of take those opportunities and make the most of it. But we just want to make sure that those opportunities are available for them. And it's wonderful what kids can do when they have the opportunity to become better people. The final comment will be mine. Thank you for teaching Jennifer Shin Ackerman. And I will leave you with this. She just got accepted to veterinarian school and the discipline that she received was not just from mom and dad and not from her school. And I have to say that I taught Robin at Iolani school, one of the best schools in America, not just Hawaii. But the discipline that she had, I credit to HHK. So anyway, but anyway, thank you very much. A hui hou and aloha to both of you. Yeah, mahalo. If you liked this show, why don't you give us a like or subscribe to our channel. Thanks so much.