 We're asking people, why does open matter for students, faculty, and institutions? Okay, so I think open as an entire concept is extremely important for open education as a whole within an institution which would then affect faculty and students. One of the things I work on is the open textbook project through BC. And I see textbooks as what really started as our entry way into open into the system. It's become the way in which people have begun to understand the open education movement in BC. So for us, because textbooks are something that are tangible, people already understand what a textbook is. It doesn't seem as far as long as open pedagogy, which some people have a hard time understanding what that is. And so for us, I really see, or for students and faculty and administrators, I see it really as an access and an inclusiveness response. What we're looking at here is more access for students, so students obviously on an affordability scale, but also access for students from a universal design perspective and an accessibility perspective. So a lot of students who normally wouldn't have access to the material, they now can access the material on day one. You get different versions of the material. And it also allows instructors to customize the material based on their course needs or the way in which their learners learn. For faculty, I think it really comes down to academic freedom, the ability to customize the text to really no longer use content to really drive, or I should say sorry, it's really about allowing the outcomes of what the faculty wants the students to learn to really drive the work that they're doing. So for example, if faculty are able to really strip down their courses, take a look at the learning outcomes, and then find open content associated with that. So that it then becomes more about how to teach using their knowledge of what the outcomes are for the students and really teach from a pedagogical standpoint that gets the best out of their students. Administrations and institutions, I see this as an enormous potential across the institution from so many aspects. I mean it's a cost savings obviously with open access, open education, open textbooks, but it also enables a sense of sort of a community building. You're sharing your materials. You're offering people across the institution the opportunity to share the work that they've done but also share their knowledge which is obviously the primary reason that we're all in education is to share knowledge. I also think it puts institutions out at the forefront of education across Canada but also around the world in terms of sharing their materials. It puts a good footprint out there. And of course accessibility for the students. So many, we've seen a lot of student advocates come to the stage and really talk about the affordability aspect of open in terms of what they need so that they can pursue their careers. But it also means that as a result, if students are doing better in courses based on redesign of open content and open courseware design, student learning outcomes are improving and that's what we've seen through research. And with the student learning outcomes improving through that, we have seen through research that students actually begin to bring more courses into their repertoire. They stay in university a little bit longer just so that they can take those courses. They may do a multiple degrees. And then also it also ensures that student retention rates are held. So it's sort of a win-win in terms of having everyone involved in the institution so I think that's why openness matters. Can you talk a little bit about what you guys are trying to do at BC campus? But also maybe how, I'm trying to put this all into one question. Being a big one but this will be my last one. What you guys are trying to do at BC campus and how you might need to maybe educate the public and also what do you need from the government or what do you need from people to help you do your work? Okay. So you're going to kind of just have like a second until you're going to just like, I get a second? Because you're going to do editing, right? Yes. Okay, thank God. I feel like this is where I can speak more eloquently about stuff. Yeah, you can start both, start over, whatever you want. So you're saying what is BC campus's goals? What are we hoping to achieve and then what can we ask the government for? Yeah, and I was thinking like, well is there a piece of it that sort of educating the public about what you're doing and also like, so then will that help you get government support or what do you need from the government? Okay. So there's a few things that we're doing at BC campus. One is obviously the main mandate for us in open education is to increase access to institutions but also to improve student learning outcomes and then to give faculty more academic freedom over their works to be able to control the content that they're actually teaching. I really see BC campus in a unique position because we're not just focusing on one institution across BC. We're really looking at this as a holistic post-secondary system in which we're all working towards a common outcome, which is open education. So BC campus, obviously we do the open textbook project and that has been a real entry point for us in terms of getting into the institutions and really working with faculty, getting faculty to understand what an open textbook is, how it can be used, how to adopt it, how to adapt it for the needs of their students but also for context within perhaps an articulation committee across an institution or across institutions. And there's actually been some collaborations across institutions to do those adaptations and creations and that's been great. But as I said, that was really an entry point for us in an order for this to become a mainstream movement across BC in terms of the fact that we don't really call it open education anymore, we just call it education. It really needs to, we need to have a deeper presence across the institutions and our plan moving forward is really to work with instructional designers, work with teaching and learning centers, work more closely with librarians, we've been doing that already, but further more in the capacity of having them be involved in course design. And really work with those groups of people alongside the faculty to see how we can transform the teaching and learning process. So what our hope is is that we can go in, work with these constituents and do, I guess what you would refer to as train the trainer workshops. So our hope is that we can get our message in there but really work across the system to come up with a common language, a common framework so that when we speak about open education, open educational resources that we're speaking from, we're all in the same knowledge base I guess, so we all start at the same place. And what we're hoping to do through that is also to create a BC instructional design group and that group will really help to establish some guidelines and frameworks and talk about how to incorporate open in the course design process and what does that look like? What does an open educational practice look like when we're designing courses? So through the workshop system, we're really hoping to see that happen. We're also hoping to increase our ancillary resources in a lot of the textbooks, increase video usage, increase the usage of PowerPoints that many people want alongside a textbook, more test banks. But at the same time, we're also looking at creating more of a repository of open pedagogical assignments. So things where faculty can begin to share their experiences of a student-centered approach to learning. What kind of activities have they've done? What kind of assignments have they done? How have they done this? What approaches have they taken and how have they assessed the students through this process? Because I think really through the opportunity of sharing what we've already done, it really enables a greater widespread opportunity for open to exist. In terms of what we're really looking for and for government support, I think it really needs to be, we need to really start engaging higher education administrators in the conversation, and I think that needs to come from a government support, the government level. I think the government really needs to have the conversation with presidents across BC, presidents at colleges and universities and institutes about what does open education mean? Why is it important? Why are we taking this into effect? We've already put two million dollars into the open textbook project, but that two million dollars really is just seeing the advent, the beginning of what is happening in the open education movement. We're starting to see student advocacy happen. We're starting to see faculty really clicking in with the idea of adapting open materials. And we're really starting to get the engagement of the teaching and learning center community. The instructional designers, the course developers, the curriculum developers are starting to really shift the perspective in terms of what does it mean to design courses based on a student-centered approach or open pedagogical model. And so from a government perspective, I think what we really want to do is start, we don't want to lose the momentum. We want to keep the momentum going. We also are seeing or hearing from across many institutions the outcry of obviously affordability for students. And so for the ministry, this is an extremely important win for them. It's an extremely important issue for them. We're looking, we want the ministry to be, what they've done already in the BC post-secondary system for open education, they should be extremely proud of, because we have seen that interest and that ownership to open education, which I think is so profound, it's very rare across a lot of the provinces and BC, or in Canada. And so I think what we're really looking for is continued support, but really starting to give that support to a higher administrative level, so that the presidents and the VPs and the provost can start to really either shift policy perspectives in the institutions around open, or they can also start providing further research grants, further education grants, teaching grants to their institutions that really deal with open education.