 We're going to get started here Welcome everyone to Anabaptist Dialogs a new webinar series from Anabaptist Witness I am your host Jamie Pitts and I am grateful to those of you who are writing your names and locations in the chat and I welcome all of you to do that so that we can know who you are and Welcome you. It's great to see people from now. It looks like from the US and Canada Germany and normally Mexico In one case Today I am joined by Katie Graber and Annaly Leptison Katie is an ethnic musicologist who studies race and ethnicity in a variety of contexts including Mennonite music American music and European opera Katie was the intercultural worship editor for the Voices Together Heminal project and is co-director of the Anabaptist worship network She teaches courses on Western music history and world music at Ohio State University in Leeds singing at Columbus Mennonite Church in Ohio Annaly is a PhD student at the University of Ottawa where she studies equity and diversity in congregational music particularly examining the genre of contemporary worship music She was also a member of the Voices Together Heminal committee and with Katie is co-director of the Anabaptist worship network Annaly enjoys serving as director of Ontario Mennonite music camp and intends Ottawa Mennonite Church Annaly and Katie teach short courses about voices together in Mennonite worship through the AMBS church leadership center Welcome Katie and Annaly After the interview we'll we'll I'll be in dialogue with Katie and Annaly for the next half hour or so But we will have several minutes 10 to 15 minutes for Questions that you might raise for Annaly and Katie And if you do have a question and I hope you will The way you can communicate that to us is by using the little Q&A box at the bottom on the bottom zoom bar So glad for You to share other kind of thoughts in the chat and as you're doing to continue to introduce yourselves But if you have a question, I will keep my eye on the Q&A box So please drop your question there and when we get to the time for open discussion I will be looking there to Get your questions but let's get into the main part of our webinar today, which is This discussion with Annaly and Katie And they have in addition to all the work they've been doing On voices together and the other projects they're involved with they have They're just finishing I should say editing a new issue of anabaptist witness On the theme of worship and witness and that issue is being finalized. It's with our copy editor Right now and you can expect it at the end of this month And I'll say at the end of our interview How you can Find that interview or excuse me that issue when it is ready But so again the theme of this this forthcoming issue of anabaptist witnesses worship and witness and so Annaly, Katie I'd like to hear just to start with what your personal experience is with this Intersection between worship and witness Sure, I'd say that a recent important event in the life of my congregation Columbus Mennonite Church was having Edith Espinall in sanctuary for the last three years And she left sanctuary thankfully in in February But that was a profound experience of Bringing together a Witness Of course, we were doing this for the benefit of Edith But it was also a witness to our community as a proclamation of our values about Welcoming immigrants and refugees and taking care of one another And it also changed our worship having her there and her family would come to to our church on Sunday mornings often would caused us to to think about we had a worship series on sanctuary on the historical and and spiritual dimensions of sanctuary and A couple people in our congregation wrote a sanctuary prayer that we said in English and Spanish for many weeks And and then the witness portion of it. It was it was just so They were they were so connected you couldn't take them apart because At the same time we had events at our church that brought in community members and people would join us And we would join other people at protests and things like that so that was a Just one interesting ongoing event that brought these two things together I'd say for myself it goes back to Growing up and the church that I grew up in or spent spent kind of my teenage years in Was a church plant based in Kitchen Waterloo called the Gathering That my my dad started and was the pastor of and so I that started when I was about 10 years old and I was there till I left for university and The the whole so the church we didn't have a building We were really intentionally in kind of an emerging neighborhood Lots of school aged kids Lots of new Kind of developments and we did a lot of you know Fun fairs and free pancake breakfasts and just so many community events, which I absolutely loved As a teenager getting to do the soft serve at the fun fair or whatever. It was it was a really wonderful experience But but there were so many connections between that and the worship that we participated in and that's Interesting for me to reflect on as a teenager who wasn't particularly involved in worship leadership But noticing I if I think back I can think of how many times People would come to our church And they'd be walking into the school that their kids attended So they've been to the school many many times they've watched, you know games in the gym that we're worshiping in And then the ways that our worship was designed to really feel welcoming to folks who had not Been part of church services before and so I think about the clothing we wore Never in my life did I have any kind of dress up for sunday? I mean I did because it was fun, but there was no pressure to do that And and you know, it's a familiar space. We've just got you know Volunteers around and chairs that were on stacking But then the worship was really designed to be accessible and so for me that was a transition from going From primarily hymn singing congregations to contemporary worship music And the way that that music sounds like what you hear on the radio And so if you are used to if you're someone who you know drives the work listen to the radio has it in the background during supper You're able to participate in worship because it sounds familiar to you and there's no precedent of needing to be able to read music or You know have any kind of classical music training and so the way that our worship and witness intersected I love katie's example in my example because they're so different and both so So unique and interesting And so for me that that intersection was about our worship being really really accessible to folks who had not Really participated in church before Yeah, you're right those those questions or your responses Tie together both the kind of ordinary how The regular pattern of ordinary worship Can be you know through its intentional attention to accessibility and so forth can be Part of the church's witness and katie you're talking about kind of more extraordinary even though I know it lasted quite a long time the sanctuary process at columbus men and I but kind of more extraordinary Out of the usual that really disrupted your your ordinary Rhythms of worship and and yet was a Mode of witness for you. So thanks for sharing those now. I've mentioned that you both were active In the voices together hymnal for those who are not familiar with that hymnal This is a new hymnal that's been released recently for Oh, there we go. I produced by and for Mennonite Church, Canada and Mennonite Church, USA So it's the new denominational hymnal for these two denominational bodies And I know both of you have been deep in this project for a long time. And so I'm curious How would you see this? You know, how did your work on the voices together hymnal shape your understanding of this relationship between worship and witness? Well, one of the things that comes to mind for me in my Work with voices together was I did a lot of thinking about beyond sunday It's what it's called. So this was with my worship resources hat, which is the the words for worship at the back of the book And we one of the things that our our editor ser johnson Kind of called us to think about words. Where are hymnals that are not sunday morning worship? or A variation of sunday morning worship and and what resources might be helpful there and so one of the resources that we Were intentional about trying to find and ended up kind of including several Pieces that could fit with this is something for public protests and blessing public protests And so that's an example of how You know, we are able to see public protests as an act of worship and by resourcing those We're able to kind of bridge these two pieces that katie kind of already articulated are so inseparable in many ways And so there are other, you know, there's a beautiful song and voices together and the text just how can our anger give life Kind of these resources that really call us to think about our public action and how that connects to our worship I'm really intrigued by Paperless singing there's a really excellent organization called music that makes community that does a lot of this teaching folks music And they they do a lot of that kind of outdoors in the city in the town wherever they are kind of The whole idea is that you don't again. You don't need sheet music. You can pick it up It's an oral tradition and people can just join in and so I love the idea of incorporating some of their music at protests Because the whole idea is that we're joining our voices together in something that you don't need to have known before It's a simple repetitive Melody you can harmonize if you want And so there's examples of some of those kinds of short paperless songs and voices together that I think have really interesting connections when we're when we're doing public work um as an example Yeah, and you could go even further to to say that everything we do is worship. I mean beyond sunday um other places that would have him knows would be um schools at menonite schools and camps and hospitals you you need um pastors need prayers to say at hospitals and home visits and all kinds of places that aren't just in a church building with a group of people And um, of course it can become um meaningless if you say everything is worship Then there's nothing to talk about but I think it's useful to always be stretching that that definition and we did that on On the voices together committee kind of thinking about How how songs if you if we do sing them in a church service, how do they connect to the rest of our lives? and In addition to that what other locations and situations do we need? words to say individually and corporately say or sing And I think even beyond that we're just bouncing off each other How we sing a song or how we lead a song or where we get our music from also says something about our witness It's about how we Understand God and how we share that with with our communities both internally and externally And so really thinking about questions of origin of music and how we're leading and you know the accessibility of our words and our melodies and any of our harmonies and whatever our accompaniments our instruments all of those are questions about how we are communicating What we believe and how would that be perceived to someone both within or outside of your community? From any kind of various walk of life Yeah, in the same way that you can say that worship is everything We could also say that witness is everything every every act and everything we say proclaims what we believe And so we need to be intentional about In our as we plan worship Are we by our actions in the words we're choosing saying what we mean to say and enacting the kind of community that we want to enact and then again all the all of the Connections to outside of outside of traditional traditional definitions of worship How do those how do we proclaim what we believe? In many many different ways Emily going back to the first part of your answer you mentioned You know public protests as connected to worship in some way. I think that's not something Uh that a lot of people necessarily think about I know in the the new issue of anti-baptist witness You had some articles that talked about different kinds of protests Congregations coordinating on putting out yard signs, you know with political messaging and so forth How do we think about protests and other actions like that as forms of worship? Yeah, we we wanted to um, we invited Amy Amy Yoder McLaughlin to we knew she's thinking about these things about Protest as worship and so we invited her to write an essay for this For this issue and um, and she talks about specifically for um protests about immigration because of Because of ices It's not a law but it's sort of an in-house um Rule that they follow that they don't disrupt worship services and that's why people can take sanctuary in churches and so In philadelphia, there's a group that Makes if if there's an ice raid or something they they surround it and start singing and turn it into a worship service to to try to create this This feeling that I stood there and that it worked every time but um, but it's just And she spit that out more of how she personates of it as Versha and how she grounds herself and her spirituality when she takes Action in those protests Yeah, I think it's also interesting to reflect on for for Mennonites um You know, we I think Find so much of our identity and being social justice people who think about how we are um Justice in all kinds of various ways Um, and we also find a lot of our identity in our worship, right? I think those two have interesting intersections if you think about I mean even just You know degree programs like I'm all my friends were church music or peace and conflict studies You know like we those these two areas have so many intersections in our life um, and so of course connected to that You know protests and our worship are also um They they dialogue with each other And and it's you know, when we were writing um, so we wrote this document with some, um consultants including from into account on what happens when worship resources are implicated in abuse um and one of the One of the calls that we got in that writing process was that we shouldn't only talk about you know, um Various forms of sexual violence On one Sunday a year or when it comes up, but this should be part of our worship Always this should be named in our congregational prayer And we should be attentive to how our worship may be perceived by survivors and affect their you know their experience and their well-being And I think that that call goes beyond that these issues protests and And other forms of you know injustice that we speak about aren't things to only come up You know that one Sunday a year or right when something emergency Happens or when a big something happens in the news. These are things that should be Engrained in our worship both through congregational prayers. That's a really natural way to name them But also can we address them in our sermons? What do our songs say whether they address them or not? How do they impact these issues? um And so kind of these these broader connections that help us help us worship more fully and also protest and be be people of action more fully too Yeah, so this issue also includes three congregational prayers because we wanted to include examples of those that engage That engage the world beyond Or make that link between Our worship and the world beyond our worship The another really interesting resource to highlight perhaps that's in voices together that kind of connects to this is The prayer for national occasions by Isaac the acus who is a friend to anabaptist witness um, and and that has gained some really interesting traction too thinking about um you know justice and and nationality and kind of Identity in those ways and what do we do with that? You know What are it's really interesting to consider? What do men and eight congregations do on canada day or the fourth of july? How does our worship kind of perceive? Or translate what's going on in the world around us on those sundays? And so we're excited that voices together contains that Resource and that this issue also kind of helps us think about About our men and eight identity and what's going on in the world and how those intersect and I mean if you think about our Men and eight communities worship is when we gather Together like that's you know, of course, we're gathering to worship But that's also our time of community building and conversation and brainstorming and you know church foyer conversations that lead to initiatives And so when that worship encompasses these justice issues They work they work together Yeah, well, I'm curious to know You've talked about prayers. You talked about some different kind of liturgical elements How does music itself? Um, you know, I know there's a lot of different understandings of what music is and what music does but from your perspectives How does the kind of choices congregations make about music? relate to These these matters witness Yeah, Emily talked about that a little bit already with her story about growing up and how Choosing music that is accessible is a way of being of being hospitable to newcomers and And there are of course ways to introduce Songs that that are more hospitable than than others Then and then she also talked a little bit about intentionally diversifying the music we sing so from different places and different time periods and Music written by men and women if we can build a kind of diversity like that into our Into our worship then we have more voices that we are worshiping with and more voices that we are embodying and it can it can open up a Both embodying that kind of diversity and it can open up conversations about equity in that way Yeah, I'm trying to find I've got my worship leader edition here our aspirations for language use Which is another really interesting connection between kind of what we do in worship through the words that we sing And and what we do beyond worship Although maybe katie's already told us that everything is worship So talking about within worship and beyond worship is maybe not a helpful distinction But these aspirations for language use that we talked about in voices together. I think are really helpful for Thinking about whether you're a voice is together using congregation or not thinking about how does what we're singing You know What does that say about our values and our beliefs and our theology? And that's something we think about broad scale all the time with various religious, you know statements that we we hold to But you know like one example that we this is from our worship leader edition thinking about colonialism and nationalism So do the words we choose respect people of all nations and cultures Do our words invite an identification with the worldwide church? Do our words assume or perpetuate imperialist world views? um And so how does how does what we're singing? Uh Intentionally or unintentionally reflect what we are what we're believing and there's you know research and just kind of General knowledge about how when we sing something that becomes part of our narrative And that's that's not a one-off. We don't sing something at church and then completely disconnect ourselves from those words And so it's really important to think about um About examples of how our words may shape us and are the words we singing shaping us in ways that we want to be shaped And do they do they witness to a message that is what we want to be standing behind? And so there's a whole a whole range of those aspirations, but I think that's a really clear example and then musically too Kind of like what I talked about at the beginning. I mean there's this tension between This is not You know a binary discussion There's not good and bad here of ways to witness through your music for some communities that looks like adopting contemporary worship music for some communities that looks like four-part hymnody that has really um Updated their language to be really inclusive And hopefully our Mennonite communities can do both And experiment and go beyond our comfort zones But really thinking about how how what we're teaching and leading and our instrumentation Excludes or includes and that's something Katie did a lot of work with with intercultural worship as well thinking about you know beyond text even how does the music we're being involved with Communicate Yeah, can I just say she was talking about the worship leader edition of voices together and if you have it the um discussion of the Aspirations for language use is number 355 called expansive and inclusive language and worship And another way to phrase that is to the question of How how do our words talk about who god is? Who we are and who we are who god calls us to be And so yeah the way we are shaped and the way our unconscious biases are shaped by words Is really important especially when we think about songs that we sing over and over and over And prayers and the types of language we use because worship Every week saying things together and saying things out loud and singing things is a is a very formative Act Yeah, that's wonderful to hear about that resource in the worship leader edition of voices together In those questions you read our wonderful questions We have a question from the audience That kind of goes along these lines. So I want to raise it now. This is from orlando reticop He says I know of a church men and I church in Iowa stumbling on the question of gender inclusive images of god How have you handled this resistance and you might Say more about you know, how do you connect? You've been talking about a variety of kinds of issues around Language and so forth. How have you worked particularly on this this issue around gender inclusive images for god? Yeah, there's a discussion guide on voices together hymnal.org slash resources There's lots of lots of resources there, but there's one specifically about inclusive in the expanse of language for god Um, and that is that discussion guide has that quest has that language about who is god Hey, thanks annally put it in the chat who is god what do our words say about who god is and and and who we are those things are are connected because we are called to be godlike we are called to follow jesus and So yeah, so you can't you can't um separate those and um the Are what we tried to do with voices together is include a balance and a variety anytime we Lock ourselves into saying the same words for god over and over we have we run the risk of forgetting that it's a metaphor that we can't really picture god and that we can't really understand God and so the most important thing is to and that's the idea of expanse of language to constantly try to expand Our ideas of of who god is That document also has another appendix which is also from the worship leader edition on scriptural ways to address god um, and that's a really helpful A helpful kind of summary. It's it's such a helpful resource to have to go back to um of just various Names and images of god and the spirit and of jesus to kind of help Help us understand the breadth of resources that are out there and how how over history We've been drawn to some but there are more that we can we can lean into That's really great that you're kind of building some of this into the The hymenal I know from my own experience growing up in a church context in which Every prayer start with father god um Really having my eyes open to the diversity of of imagery within scripture And the long and diverse tradition of the church Uh has been personally really really helpful and it's um, as you say the way that A different language can kind of open up or highlight Uh different aspects of god's character and how god relates to us So thank you for For doing that work to really be intentional in building that into the hymnal and We also have another expression of thanksgiving from sheldon berkhalter and I just want to read this note Sentin that Months ago when we received their personal copy of voices together As I leave through the pages the thought came to read through the hymnal So I started reading about 10 pages every night before turning out the lights But missing the music of new hymns. I've now read it cover to cover What a beautiful rich experience this has been all the hymns scripture and worship texts I came to appreciate so much more the gift of poetic lines language and theology Thanks to all those who invested their gifts gifts and compiling the book Thank you. That's really lovely. Well, thanks sheldon for sharing that and Uh, we're getting to the point where we would welcome more questions from the audience. So please do Put your questions in the q&a And we have one from Fred reticop asking how our worship has changed as we move to zoom and online services Yeah, that's a big question. That's anyways Right, right. I mean we all oh, I'm sure Anyone who's attended a service has noticed these differences. I mean one that comes up um For me is thinking about how our worship is both more flexible and less flexible We are limited in what resources we have access to in terms of You know, we want to sing the song but we don't have a recording of it Do we have an accompanist who can make a recording? Do we have a virtual choir? We are limited. We can't just do things on the fly like we may be used to but we also have so many more options Because because we can be more flexible in many regards. Um, and I think some of the expectation of Maybe performance has diminished we we know that we're in this pandemic and no one is is You know operating at a hundred percent in many ways just in terms of of how we're able to do worship And so we're able to just kind of lower our guard and be you know more impromptu and add in a resource We might not have added in And change things and respond in different ways and so there's these pros and cons and this tension But I think in regard to witness Um That kind of flexibility that comes with it does allow us to address what's going on in the world Um, I think there have been really interesting Um online forums that have come into play one this one that comes to mind that folks should check out if they Haven't on instagram, which I don't know how many of you have instagram But is um black liturgies as an account. Um, I think they may be on facebook too. Um And really interesting really interesting resources to resource some of the you know Awful events that have been happening um and giving us language to be able to acknowledge those in worship And so that that's an example of this kind of flexibility we have and these resources that have emerged Yeah, I think another thing I've seen is that it's made us think more clearly about what our worship does and what is necessary So, um, I mean a lot of things that are more difficult to do online And so you just drop it if it's not necessary or for example if we're doing if we want to do communion On zoom you have to think through What really is important about communion and how can we do it? How can we get to the kernel of meaning or or the Variety of meanings that we want to to have in this ritual today on zoom And how can we do that as opposed to when things are When we do them over and over sometimes we just go through the motions or we think we know what they mean But we're not thinking we're not we're not forced to think through them every time we Do them I I see a question from james crebel who is one of the contributors to the Uh, forthcoming issue of annouettes witness James asks Or says you reference the importance of working toward diversity in worship. I'm assuming that includes some level of commitment to multicultural interculture worship Both in our local communities increasingly in our awareness of the global faith family But then there's a thorny challenge of appropriation so Annalia katie talked us about how to navigate the commitment to both diversity and the avoidance of misappropriation Yeah Yeah, so james crebel and janey blau Wrote an article for this issue of anabaptist worship about the history of anabaptist missions and how it has Affected global anabaptist worship and I also I think I saw robert teeson's name on on here as well. He also wrote about Um mission and worship and how it's interesting because you can see the power the difference in power dynamics when people talk about how mission Church plants or or churches that arise from mission from western sources need to think about Creating indigenous worship worship that is indigenous to them and using not not only Taking songs from From foreign places, but but developing worship Of their own that that is appropriate to their culture And in north america We almost have the flip side of that that we need to be aware of worship cultures around the world And recognize that we don't own christianity as as westerners or north americans And that we don't have the only correct ways to worship or that our hymns are better than other cultures christian music so that So part of That's that's all I haven't gotten to james's question at all yet So I think what I always say Is that we we have to balance the the tension there that we have that we need to do it. We need to be Engaging in we and I'm talking for myself as a white north american person now Um that uh, we need to engage in worship cultures from around the world and songs from different cultures In order for for me to remind myself that I don't own christianity that god is bigger than my culture that god speaks the languages of the the entire world And at the same time The other part of the tension is is this question of misappropriation or cultural appropriation that It's it's also there are very good reasons to to not Put use my voice to sing Um words from other places that I can't really identify with in my own personal like Like slave spirituals who who am I to be to sing those songs when I have never experienced that um, so I I think we we have to recognize the tension and not let it paralyze us and um We can move forward in a spirit of humility and this a spirit of purfulness and a spirit of once again back to the the theme of connecting our worship to Our life beyond the worship service is that that none of these Singing of diversity or worshiping with diversity should end there we should We should connect it to learning and to political protests or whatever however, you are involved in In politics or these issues learning and welcoming people in and And other actions so that so that the our worship life is grounded in the rest of our life and vice versa And uh, this may you may have answered this but Robert teeson who was just mentioned, uh, sends in a question that I think Um, maybe asked for some of the kind of the practice a practical question related to what you're just talking about kati So how does the need for an emerging church to worship in indigenous forms balance with older churches? um to adopt broader forms how do old In quotes old churches help emerging groups, especially migrant situations feel free to utilize their own cultural forms. Do you have any kind of pastoral advice For that those kind of situations um I I think that that's hard to talk about generally because it would be so There would be so many different types of situations that That this could uh, that this could emerge from different types of cultural interactions but I think the the relationships are important and Understanding one another. I mean if we're talking about migrants immigrants in north america and welcoming people into our congregation and encouraging them like the The relationship and willingness of me to sing your songs just as much as you are singing my songs if you come to my church um Yeah, i'm not i'm not sure. I think I think the kind of pastoral care thing that you you just mentioned is a big thing um That has felt like a big thing throughout our voices together process too that we Have a sense of where we want to be And what is maybe ideal? Worship on many levels, but there's also There's also sometimes we need to sing the songs that are heart songs to us And we need to we need to you know, sing the songs that our neighbors want to sing And so there's this tension between where we want to be and how fast we may want to move and what the ideal is And and what worship that's sensitive and attuned to the congregation And that meets their needs is and so I don't think there's a clear cut answer on those. They're just two Two pieces that we hold in tension and that can be kind of translated onto That question and others that it's this push and pull and rest kind of Tension that we hold. Yeah, and that it's work. It's hard work and it's never done We you can't just Sing a song from another culture and check that box and you don't have to do it again um You need to continually Cultivate and part of worship is cultivating habits of thought and and of being and so building Building multiculturalism and diversity and respect for others into the Into those repeated actions is is important So when you talk about some of these matters of intercultural diversity um, unity and diversity, you know, one of the primary biblical theological frameworks that christians Have used to address those questions has been the paradigm of reconciliation And men and I have heavily invested in this concept of reconciliation On the way that the church itself and our membership and gathering unites Formerly warring people that, you know, the beans through the dividing wall has been broken down in our worshiping communities and so there is a kind of Mennonite theology of worship that is centered on reconciliation and yet we've known We have been learning. I'll say and many of us have been learning many have known for a long time But that An emphasis on reconciliation as the kind of immediate goal can be used to kind of manipulate and silence Righteous calls for justice and repair And I know this is something that some of the authors in the the new issue about this witness work on and perhaps It's something that you've thought about in terms of the kind of relationship between worship and reconciliation So I wonder what you would say, how do we think about worship as reconciling or can we do that? Should we do that? Yeah, there's an article in in this new issue about A congregation's journey toward inclusiveness of lgbtq people and how reconciliation Is important to their worship and their witness and so precisely what you're talking about And kind of off of that how their worship enacted their reconciliation the worship was necessary in order for that congregation to experience reconciliation Keep going Um That speaks to the the question. I mean The article that you're referring to from what I've seen of it and from some of the other pieces and the The journal that touch on this it seems to envision a form kind of a Renewal or revision to look kind of more traditional Mennonite theology of reconciliation that Includes and incorporates Yeah, and that article talks about the pain along the way and It's not yeah, it's not all as you said that the the idea of reconciliation Being used to make it make it appear nice and and Happy and that's Yeah, that's definitely something that Mennonites need to work on I think like digging into reconciliation in all of its messiness And it's and it's pain and everything else that needs that comes along with it Well, thanks for reflecting on that topic as well as all the many Different topics we've talked about here. This is all the time we have left for today We will be posting the recording the video recording of this discussion on Our and about to switch this social media accounts as well as our website You can also find recordings of our past three webinars Again on our social media and website And you can learn more about anabaptist witness On we have facebook twitter and we actually are on instagram now So if you're checking out some of the resources annalee mentioned you can check out anabaptist witness as well Um, our website is www.annabaptistwitness.org and in the next week or so you will see this Issue that has been so expertly and well edited by katie and annalee Thank you for that and thank you so much. Um for being with us On our webinar katie and annalee Yeah, thanks for having us Just as a Final word i'll say anabaptist witness is a project of anabaptist midnight biblical seminary midnight central committee midnight church canada in midnight mission network And i want to give a special thanks to marcos acosta Who has been for the last couple years? My assistant on anabaptist witness, um, and he is graduating here in the next Next weekend. Um, he's been the one who has been organizing these webinars and setting them up and so Big thank you to marcos for all your help We are hoping to do another series of these webinars In coming months, so please stay tuned to our Our social media accounts and email Updates and we'll alert you to those But once again many thanks to you all for joining us and a special thanks to katie and annalee. Bye everybody