 Welcome and aloha. My name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of think tech Hawaii's law across the sea program Today we're going across the sea from Chicago and South Bend to Tokyo and Seoul and ultimately to Hawaii and talk with Hawaii attorney Stephen Dyer about his journeys in Japanese language and culture the practice of law and service in the u.s. Army and how all these roads Connected and ultimately converged in his personal and professional lives Welcome Steve. How are you? Thank you, Mark. It's good to be here. Okay, we're we're we're looking at a beautiful photo of you That appears on your website page of your law firm. What law firm is that by the way? It's Okay, all right now but before we get into your Law practice and talk about that. Tell me a little bit about your background your personal background where you're from Where you grew up and then I know you went to Notre Dame undergrad and John Marshall law school, but trying to just give me a little background on yourself That's correct. Mark. I grew up in Just outside Chicago a town called Juliette, Illinois I did my time figuratively That's a film that's known for a prison. Yes. Yeah, okay couple of them correct You know, I went to july at catholic high school all boys and my dad was An army in world war two. He was a an infantry company commander with a 36th infantry division that went from All the way up Italy into southern France And I was kind of into high school. I didn't really worry about college and one day he comes up And there you go. So what are you going to do next year? I go, I don't know. I haven't thought about it He goes are you going to go to college? This is my senior year in high school And I go, yeah, I guess so and he goes, well, how are you going to pay for it? And I look at him and he goes, this is not going to be me. So he better start applying for scholarships And he had Brandon filled out a scholarship application for an army ROTC scholarship And he goes, you just have to write an essay and sign it and I'll send it in for you. I go What's ROTC? He explained it to me And I said, okay, I get it. He's the next officer. So Okay, I'll sign it and so bottom line is I got the scholarship and It was funny. I had applied to Notre Dame and brought up for a new view and The admissions counselor's like, oh, you know, we haven't reviewed your your application yet, but Have you applied to other schools? I go, okay, I get it. Um, and then the next week I was informed I got the scholarship and This army colonel had called me and I told him the story of this admissions counselor. He goes, oh, really? I'll call you right back And he calls in 15 minutes. He goes, guess what? You've been accepted So I thought, okay, um Then at Notre Dame freshman year all the freshmen have to take the same core courses five courses It's how they weed you out And one of the courses is a modern language So I had taken Latin and french in high school of three years each and I figured I'll take french to I'll get my C and kind of cruise and that'll be it Sure enough after the first semester I got my C, but then Second semester the first week. I didn't prepare And the french prof took me Friday afternoon after class. He goes, let me show you You were not prepared today. I go, no, but I'll do better on Monday. He goes, no, no, no If you come Monday, I will flunk you You better go to the dean because I know you need a language or else you're out I thought that's pretty harsh, but I went to the dean Dean goes out Oh, I took the liberty of calling the french the Spanish prof the german prof the russian prof Nobody wants you. Um, you'd have to make up a whole semester in a week and anyway, um Oh, hold on the phone's ringing And he hangs up and he goes that was the japanese prof You need three students to have a class at Notre Dame or else they cancel the class and He just lost his third student. So you even go over there and be his third student You better pass dire or else you're gone So fear is a great motivator mark. I uh, I studied very hard so I think that was actually a guardian angel in disguise taking care of me because He recommended the prof did that. He says, yeah, you you've normally caught up But I want you to go study in in tokyo your sophomore year and I did and then I wound up the majoring in japanese along with economics and At Notre Dame You had a kind of a dual major is that it at Notre Dame? At a double major, correct. And Notre Dame has a program that are somehow you were got to japan as an undergraduate Is that correct? Correct at sophia university, which I believe you went to yeah mark Yeah, I went to as an undergraduate also for a year. Yeah But you you were there for two years. Is that correct? No, I was at sophia for just one a year abroad actually in nine months. Okay But then during last school Okay, so I was you know, I owe the army four years since they paid for four years of undergrad because you've got a scholarship to attend Notre Dame through the the rotsi program Correct. Okay. And then so I was able to get I'm sorry and then and then because of this this fluke in this language is what got you hooked on japan I guess where you had to take the language. Yeah Okay, and so So I was able to get a Well, I was able to get an educational delay. They call it a deferment of the army commitment for three years for law school, but then I received a rotary you've heard of, you know, rotary clubs a rotary international Ambassador fellowship to go study at a japanese law school Along with a preparatory 15 month period of only intensive japanese to get to a law school level Um, and then they sent me to chuo university law school, which is the largest law school in japan. That was not easy but um So I did actually a five-year took me five years to get through law school, but um I learned japanese, so it worked out great and then because of the uh tours in japan as an undergraduate in Notre Dame and then ultimately In in john marshall law school Because of that scholarship now. I didn't know they had scholarships or are um programs In law school like that that's that's pretty cool. That's pretty nice But ultimately that's how you gain your knowledge of japan language and culture Uh this boy from uh, illinois Yeah And Yeah, exactly go figure. Yeah kind of so so and and uh, as I understand it, uh, all of these Things kind of played into an interest that you had and and you you got hooked not only on on, uh Japan but on the law and military and I mean what what in your background, uh Directed you to that area to those areas to those roads So that was No, I'm sorry. That's very perceptive of you mark. Exactly. Um, you know, I was adopted at birth And I couldn't have been blessed with two finer parents. They were magnificent um, I love them greatly um, but The army when I finished law school the army, of course said, where do you want to go? I go, well, how many You know, I was going to be a jag officer in the in the legal system And I go, how many Jags you have are fluent in Japanese? I go, uh, good point And so the next week I got my orders for Korea and kind of typical army and uh But that worked out because if you know Japanese I was able to learn Korean pretty well. So I didn't get around in Korean too um And then after Korea they sent me here to Hawaii And I became triplers Uh, medical claims judge advocates. So I did all their medical malpractice defense and One day during that time I showed up with chest pains one morning and You know, I was kind of concerned and you know, you get to know the chiefs of all the services So I called my friend the chief of cardiology who said, you know, get up here right now and He asked me what my family history was for heart disease and I go, uh, I don't know I'm an adoptee so he goes you better track them down So I did It took five years and in the meantime, I got out of the army and started private practice here But The the adoption folks Catholic Charities called me and says well, we have good news and bad news for you The bad news is your mother passed away your birth mother um But she had a sister and the sister lives in Honolulu Within an hour that sister was in my conference room and we're you know, I'm looking at photos and finding out things They in turn looked me up with my birth father and uh The weird thing was I found out my my birth father told me yeah, you're from a long line We have a genealogy goes back to 1254 in England You're from a long line of lawyers and military officers. Wow and we're all linguists amazing. Oh my gosh It kind of all made sense it's like uh, uh, some uh invisible hand is moving the uh pieces on the chess board so that Yeah, all these things come up because I mean But for the army you you wouldn't uh be in Hawaii Uh, but for working at tripler through the army You wouldn't have found your parents basically because you know you went to the doctor and he gave you that advice And then and then you find out this long long history And and and you're you have a relative right in Honolulu. I mean, it's kind of how do these things happen Well, and not only that but the weird thing is the my auntie who lives in Honolulu here It tells me that her father so my birth grandfather is a 1923 Notre Dame grad So maybe that was my guardian angel when I got kicked out of french, who knows Okay, so uh in in the army when you were in korea, what kind of cases were you handling? Uh, they put me in what's called the trial defense service and I was there 27 months. I did 27 jury trials court marshals So it's defending soldiers who've been accused of crimes. So all criminal defense and all trial practice basically Correct. Yeah, very good experience. Yeah, and that kind of set you up I suppose for what you're doing now. Is that what your practice is now? At your law firm sort of I'm still a trial lawyer. I'd like to think so anyway. I'm a litigator But I don't do criminal anymore. I do all civil so lawsuits. I defend mostly Some plaintiffs work to mostly actually for Japanese plaintiffs who don't understand English well enough. I'll represent them As well as military folks. Those are kind of, you know, the soft spots in my heart but Mostly defense. Yes Okay, so you uh Study Japanese You learned about the culture because you spent a number of years as an undergraduate law student there and You had a military background Also in in Asia and then ultimately you came back here to Hawaii and Hawaii's your home now. Is that is that is that where you're you're you're staying and working and living Absolutely I fell in love with Hawaii when I came here in 1988. So I've been here. What whatever long that is Yeah, um, and I didn't hurt Go ahead and look I want to take a minute break right now And then I want to talk about The convergence of all those roads of military Law and japan when we come back an interesting Incident so I'd like to talk about that. We'll take a break and be right back Aloha, I'm Daelyn Yanagita one of our hosts of our business in Hawaii talk show on the think tech Hawaii The theme of business in Hawaii is to share with you stories of local businesses by local people And our guests share with us their journey to building a successful business right here at home We are streamed live on think tech weekly at 2 p.m. On thursdays. Thank you so much for watching our show I am Daelyn Yanagita and we'll look forward to seeing you then Aloha, I'm lillian cumick host of lillian's vegan world the show where we talk about veganism and the plant-based diet Located in Honolulu, Hawaii. I am a vegan chef and cooking instructor and I have lots of Information to share with you about how awesome this plant-based diet is so do tune in every second thursday from 1 p.m. Aloha Aloha, we are back I am mark schlaufe interviewing steven dire steven is a hawaii lawyer And he said several interesting roads that he's walked down From studying Japanese language and culture at Notre Dame and john marshal law school or through programs offered by those schools becoming a military officer jag core and Ultimately coming to hawaii and and steven Uh, how do you explain all these roads converged? And on february 9th 2001 something happened you got a phone call. What was that about? Yeah, you know everybody Wants to be the right guy in the right place at the right time. I think and Everybody will have that moment and and I think I was according to that moment on that date that evening, um, I went home and I got a phone call from the staff judge advocates in other words the chief lawyer for Pacific Command, which is the four-star command up at camp smith um For those who don't know camp smith the four-star at camp smith is it's a joint command and the four star is in charge of all u.s. Military assets From california to india. So it's essentially two-thirds of the planet's surface It's the most powerful and largest military command in the history of the planet Um, I was fortunate enough when I got off active duty um The jag office up there needed a reservist um So I was a reservist but this is a command for cheese 17 years. Uh, it was a very fulfilling experience being a reservist up there being able to Speak japanese korean and being able to be be sent all over asian kind of have a knowledge of of asia although funny Paycom sent me just about everywhere, but japan and korea mostly thailand and vietnam and australia new zealand Malaysia, but it worked out fine, but on that evening I got a phone call. This is probably the one big occasion when I was able to utilize my japanese and my experience in japan There had been a horrible accident. Um I'm sure listeners If you're older than 25 effort of the ahime madhu incident where a japanese Kind of a fishing trailer, but an educational vessel That the prefecture of ahime, which is in the shikoku island of japan commissioned to teach high school kids To be fishermen. So kind of a tech uh center Vessel And they did a dock in hawaii for a few days and it was leaving here. It was about six seven miles offshore One of our navy subs the greenville uh did A maneuver called an emergency blow Where they pretty much go straight up and kind of breach, you know, like a whale would breach out of water And uh, they didn't check to see if anything was up there They figured middle of the ocean what's going to be there and They struck The the aim a moderate the the fishing vessel and they cut it in half and It began to sink immediately And nine of the crew and students Were lost at sea were killed. So you were very sad very tragic So you were brought in to help I guess with the Diplomacy and because they knew of your background and what did you do? Correct, so The staff to javica called and said hey steve, can you help us out? You know, we know you you speak japanese and You know, you have a history living in japan Um Can you please help out push through a lawyer that won't hurt? Um So I was the first Representative of a pacific commander Anybody other than the coast guard who fished these guys out of the water that night Um to visit them and uh I introduced myself to the captain and You know his crew and uh To find out what happened and to find out what their needs were And tried to help them, you know, accomplish their their needs. First of all, they were at Sand island in the coast guard facility there. In fact, they had to throw them in the bridge because they had no other room And they lost all their clothes and so They gave them prisoner jumpsuits. They're all wearing these orange jumpsuits for the brig I kind of felt sorry for them and frankly they were just in shock still I think and uh I was able to report back to pacific command, you know, their version of events and uh Pacific commander still interviewing On their side to to find out what happened with the with the submarine folks, but Uh, I was able to convince them to give them what's called salatia international law That's just money so that they can, you know, get phone cars to call home to tell their loved ones. They're okay and To go out and buy some clothes that they could get some clothes with because they'd lost everything so They told me hey, just give the The captain a check and I go you can't do that. You got to do it the Japanese way You got to you know, have some sensitivity here and I was able to Convince the finance officer to contact the banker to get you know, crisp Brand new 100 dollar bills Uh and put them in envelopes for each of the survivors. There were 35 of them And have each of the envelopes inscribed in kanji with their name So, you know to make them feel more comfortable frankly With the the cultural way to progress and that's based on your background in in japan and what you learned there It was it's all about doing the right thing and you know, you just have to take care of these folks The right thing is good. That's a japanese Cultural concept too, I think Yeah, and then so what else what else happened? that that was a Friday night and then Saturday I got the cash and by Saturday evening 24 hours later the facts have been sorted out and It was clear that was our fault and in the meantime, you know, the tv network cnn was rife with reports of you know the japan u.s relationship going down the tubes basically and so I asked permission to apologize to the captain and crew When I handed over the solacea cash And I was granted that permission How did you know to do that? I mean that's an interesting cultural idea also Well, I was fortunate that I I had called the interpreter who I'd been using for Many years To help out. She's japanese. Her name is jesco kawakami. She was a huge help um But also I had gotten a black belt in the martial art of eidol Eidol is the The samurai sword and I think half the time when you learn the idol you're in the seiza position and you learn The ritual actions of you know bowing and apologizing it's all about being humble and um So I utilized that training when I conveyed the checks or that checks the cash And you know apologized to each one It really came in handy. I think it made a a big difference in trying to make Lemonade out of this lemon Yeah, and I believe that, you know, you've been complimented about that also by Uh, superiors is that correct about the way you handled it? You know, I hope I just did the right thing. I was just doing my job. Um They did give me a a medal No big deal. You know, I was just doing my job Like I said being the right guy in the right place at the right time. I think okay. Well, it looks like actually You've been in the right place at the right time maybe without knowing it All your life because uh all these things seem to work out, uh and point you down the road in In a direction where all of these concepts converged Japan Culture and language military and law Put you in the right place at the right time Yeah, I've been fortunate. There's a guardian angel somewhere out there. What what have you I mean What what can you tell us? What have you learned from all this if we have a About three minutes left in our program. What what have you learned? What have you learned from all this? Yeah, you know, I think I've stated it, but it's just doing the right thing You know as attorneys mark you're an attorney so you know we're problem solvers and You have to approach each problem You're giving a set of facts and you got to make the best you can out of that set of facts under whatever law that applies and so Hopefully I've learned well Approach problems from a legal point of view and remember at the same time. It's not our legal application You have to incorporate the human side of things as well and do the right thing In that regard has you know the culture of japan helped but been Benefit to miss your No question. No question You know learning another language and a culture opens your mind So you become more open to other ways to approach things and and doing things the right way You know doing the right thing Transcends any language or any culture so That's the beauty of doing the right thing You're fluent in any language when you do that now if I was A young person like you were when your father asked you what are you going to do Next year, what would you tell him about? your experience Tell me if I was the young young guy that you were talking to Me I was lucky You might not get as lucky as I was Just work hard Do whatever you're doing. I mean that's a cliche, but That's what it comes out. I mean you'd you'd recommend those roads japan study and Military and law All of those ideas seem to work out for you Is that you tell a young person to think about them and maybe Investigate the same type of scholarships that you had You know, is that something that you'd recommend? Well it worked out for me But you know you got to follow your own path and your own heart If you know that you're you're you've got a leg up. So Figure out what you want to do and Be persistent. Well, don't give up. Yeah, that sounds like good advice. And also you were You you were kind of pointed in those directions, too. There was some outside influences. I think Somehow And maybe pay attention to them, I guess is that is that something Folks should do pay young people should pay attention to these things that come out of the blue, I suppose listening Yeah, is uh, it is quite a skill that you have to develop. Yes. Well, Steve Thank you very much for being my guest today I I like talking about all of these interesting roads and I have some of them in common and So it's it's very fascinating to me. And thank you very much. Aloha