 People who don't like KDE in what aspects is it too much? This is actually an interesting question and differently from usual This is from the Linux subreddit whereas most of the feedback that I see usually is from the KDE subreddit So I'm wondering if this could be a way to discovering some new opinions that I didn't know about So let's see what are the most upvoted answers The first one is KDE is cluttered There are so many settings everywhere, which to be honest is true I've talked about this many times at this point I have to Google it three or four times to find where the things that I would like to change Are and keep in mind that I am not a new user to be honest I sometimes also get lost into the settings at this point I know most of them, but sometimes I just cannot find that option that happens What we're trying to do is actually do a redesign Maybe not a redesign, but a reorganization of the system settings where most of the settings are Now we are actually running some usability tests So we're taking a sample of people who don't use KDE trying to say we have this Say we have these categories if we told you to change these settings, which category would you look for and In that way we can actually understand whether our organization is good or bad So there are ongoing Improvement and work in that direction and hopefully we'll see that soon. What else consistency? See every app looks different. We have hamburger menu normal menu toolbars So actually I joined KDE because of consistency and I was like I am still the goalkeeper of the KDE consistency goal So my personal goal is to make KDE as consistent Consistent sorry as possible and I'm trying my best But of course it's not that easy and the hamburger menu was something that I discussed a lot over the years It's funny. It's not funny so the Decision that was took is to actually keep the hamburger menu and try to port it as many apps as Possible some apps don't want a hamburger menu and they prefer to keep the menu bar toolbar combo and Those apps may may have an optional hamburger menu the burger menu that we have is actually pretty cool Because it's a custom component called k hamburger menu very originally And it's very magical because if you add something to the toolbar that is in the menu It will automatically disappear and the opposite and it also displays all of the options That are usually in the menu bar. So it's pretty cool actually So for kickoff menus or three task managers out of the box I think that maybe is a little bit overkill A kickoff is actually just the default one others have different names like kicker But I guess it meant application launcher, which makes sense It's slightly overkill sure For kickoff menus do we have four so there is kickoff There is the application dashboard, which is the full screen one There is the menu one and that's it should be three It should be three the only one that would be fine with removing is the menu bar the menu one That the one that looks like a menu. I would keep the application dashboard because that's Something that's not covered at all by kickoff. So But I see the point three task managers is slightly unfair It should be two as far as I know I'm surely going to be proven wrong and those two are actually the same package because icons only task manager and a classical task manager Is actually the same applet It's just exposed with two different names depending on what a user wants. So it's more or easier It's easier to switch between them kd apps There are great like dolphin ocular kit go and view but there are a lot of other kd apps that are totally unstable kd has maybe Eight to ten top apps except this the quality of the rest is below the bore bar I would say slightly more than 10 But I do see the point and that is also something that there is a lot of work in trying to fix A lot of apps from kd are outdated except for the like 10 to 15 top ones And now there is kuri gami and kuri gami is hoping to see Thanks to kuri gami a new wave of apps. So what's kuri gami? If you don't know It is a framework to build qml applications and it actually makes it much easier to do that So there are many new apps coming in like no chat and the telegram client those apps that are completely new Being written in kuri gami. There's also like a male client But also file manager. There's a new mage viewer called koko There's a lot of stuff coming up dolphin is slow compared to nautilus for example thumbnail generation Interesting. I will test that one kd pym is slightly broken. Yes, that's there's nothing to say about it bugs right now is much better But still bugger than gnome which is fairer and to be honest That's not because of kd plus my developers being bad But because of the philosophy behind the two projects being completely different You have a much much more probably complex With a much more moving parts That is kedi gnome is more minimalistic in his philosophy Two different approaches and of course kedi kedi's one is going to be more Bug bugger is going to be bugger. Okay. So this one is another super long comment Let's start with one many kd programs, especially plasma feel like jack of all trades, but a master of none Interesting one. I had never heard of this one. What's the idea? We can debate until the cows come about gnome strict design policies and simply Stick sometimes to the point of limitation user interface blah blah blah kd plasma can be configured to look and act like almost anything it makes available hundreds of different widgets But it sometimes feel to me like the overall workflow and how these pieces are connected to form a cohesive wall is ignored Okay, personally, I Disagree with this analysis. I think that there is actually a strong interest in making sure that the default workflow Works nicely out of the box The sad part is that of course if you start customizing stuff then making sure that The result is actually as if is up to you and not up to the Developers, but the default workflow is actually very curated choice and flexibility is great But every option that developers add is a piece of Configurable state that some someone has to configure kind of like yes But it's not really about some piece of configurable state that somebody has to configure Rather it's about the UI being Too complex because of having too many options because most of the option will never never be By anyone most of the option won't be touched by anyone by most people But so the issue isn't that you like open up kd plasma and have to configure all of the options It's just that if you have a lot of options Then it's complex to find the one that you're looking for and the UI is going to look more scurry Yeah, you can read here if you make an application with 10 configurable settings Then just about anybody would be able to configure it in a matter of minutes If it has 100 settings, then only hardcore users will have the patience to configure it to the test this No, because you don't open up a project and configure Everything like depending on the amount of options it has you open up a new project And then you configure what you need and how much how long that task is going to take depends on how much How easy it is for you to actually find the options you need And the more options a project has the longer it takes to actually find what you need Last last time I've tried kd neon I wanted to globally disable animation and you can do that There were at least three different switches for disabling animations scattered around. This is not true I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna let that one slip None was a global toggle and setting all of them off did not disable all animations You needed to add a line to some config files setting the timer for animation to be zero to achieve what I wanted Okay, so here I have system settings and it's looking weird because I'm on gnome So I'm running kd system settings in gnome Which is weird, but it works and I'm gonna show you how to disable animations if you search for animations You get general behavior and here animation speed you put it to the minimum and that's it If you want this even easier you go to the home screen and here Animation speed minimum. So you just literally have this card to open up system settings Never click anywhere except here drag and drop here. Boom. Done. You click apply, which I want to And that's it if some animation still you still see some animations even though you just Drag and dropped animation to zero then please file a bug and it's super easy to fit So there's not like lots of I think what happened is that it got confused with desktop effects and in here we will have some like the Fee, where is it like you you can choose between feed desktop and slide But this is the only other animation settings system settings. There's just one and it's on the home page So no, sorry. I don't uh, I don't agree with this one and you do not need to change any config file Obviously if somebody some piece of caddy doesn't Stop doing animation after you change that settings. Just make a bug report. It's super easy to fix it The only gripe I have with caddy is that mixed dpi scaling is busted. Yes, that's true And I'm actually super ignorant about this. So I just leave it like totally true and Let's switch to the next one. I can't quite understand this sentiment Which is the most frequent reason to see for this liking caddy software is that the users perceive it as cluttered and overwhelming Well, I actually agree. I mean, it's a bit over overwhelming Yes plasma offers many settings and options, but the default configuration is pretty good I think that a lot that a lot that we see in this thread is people that Haven't used caddy for a couple of years because caddy has improved a lot in the last couple of years And it's still improving. So I think people like before saying that you have to change a lot of settings And it's super overwhelming. Haven't tried the latest release, but even in latest it's still a bit Clutter, there's still work going on obviously. So I see pizza. I'm italian. Let's read pizza so Imagine to go in a pizzeria. Would you prefer to have two pizzas on the menu or 10? It's more like 10 versus 100 I'd rather go with 10 pizza please versus two, but 10 pizza please versus the 100 I'd expect a pizzeria to have at least 15 to 20 options. So What very good pizzerias do is that you offer 30 pizzas at least I don't know here in italy it's at least 30 for a zero spirits area and then you actually allow the user Which is the client the pizza guy italian to customize their pizza by allowing him to change and add ingredients As an example, my pizza is a marinara. Where did I pronounce it with such an english? A marinara. It's a marinara with added Onions olives and pepperoni and that's not on any menu, but I just go there and say that Please a marinara with this that and that and that works So if you count all of the options in any pizzeria, you do get at least 100 pizzas like if you enter any pizzeria and you start ordering pizzas You can at least do 100 before you have to repeat yourself I can guarantee that in italy. It feels unintuitive and unpolished. Okay In the gnome app settings, I can go to the correct place first try In KDE, I have to troll through several layers of menus first. Again, that's true And we are working on improving that. I constantly Constantly feel lost in a maze of half baked features even more so than in windows Although maybe I just got used to windows. Okay, fair enough Yeah, there are some half baked features like I would argue that activities are quite half Which is why there is some sentiment asking to remove activities I'm also not a fan of the design language It feels a bit like the design equivalent of programmer art icons feel too big as does the time date The menu acts in ways that I don't want it to and I'm overall not impressed with its design language about this by the way Like the time date being too big was a complaint that I heard a lot And we actually addressed that a couple of versions ago like six to 12 year months ago. So As also icons being too big was also addressed by me actually with margin rs in the panel So as I said before there has been improvement and I think that maybe some people should try out the new version There's been a redesign and maybe that will help make these people a bit happier Although I don't particularly dislike KDE the top two annoying things about KDE that come to my mind are the settings menu Which in my opinion is terrible. Okay, so we fix system settings and that's it Like we're done What else is it? It's like system settings system settings system settings. So easy. Okay. We are working on fixing system settings. So Nice, it's cluttered. It's not a good user experience. Blah blah blah blah. Yes Now the other one. Sorry is the way KDE handles multiple desktops multiple desktops that is Ah, okay starting with two desktops and then creating more on demand There is a script to do that and not a script KWin extension to do that. So if you like that, you can actually have it I also don't really like dolphins default layout. It's just to match information on a single window I will talk about dolphin more In detail in the days to come and then there is david admonson KDE developer, it would be nice if someone responded to OPS actual specific questions People in this thread are repeating the me too using the same vagaboard strokes with a big Language like the too much that doesn't result in anything actionable I mean, it's just fix system settings and we're done after system settings is fixed KDE is basically I tried to modify my taskbar clock and ended up deleting the entire bar I spent 30 minutes trying to find the right sub sub menu to revert my changes before giving up How many years haven't you used kd plus main like this? No, okay. So let's talk about this. I totally disagree with this So I tried to modify my taskbar clock and ended up deleting the entire bar So doing this on accident is so difficult because we've actually hidden The option to delete a panel to make sure that it wasn't accidentally Triggered and we even made sure that it was always the furthest Option from the panel. So if you go into more options Remove panel is always as far as the panel as we could put So this one is quite hard already But okay, I spent 30 minutes to find the right sub sub menu to revert my changes. Okay, so when you Uh, when you remove a panel Immediately, you get a notification saying, hey, you removed a panel. Do you want to undo that immediately? But okay, let's say that for whatever reason he didn't get the notification Maybe do not disturb that could happen in order to add back the default panel You literally just do right click add panel Default like how did you how did you not see this for 30 minutes? It's literally right click anywhere anywhere? I mean you lost everything on your panel your desktop. So you only have the desktop you right click anywhere at the panel No, no, no, I totally disagree. I very recently migrated from Xfce to plasma And I don't plan on going back what you see as an overwhelming degree of choice and configurability I see as opportunities to avoid having to install and manually configure other packages to compensate for things that Xfce does not provide To avoid writing scripts, etc, etc. Okay, nice So we've got at least one happy person about KDE love KDE the application suite is amazing and rolls over no many day The application suite. Yeah, kind of I think it's slightly better Now the bad it is very unstable and glitchy, which is true. If you try to use a dual monitor Yeah, especially the dual monitor super buggy stuff. I I totally agree This one is nice. Let them be Let them be overwhelmed. Not every desktop OS needs to be simplified toy aping whatever Mac has left Oh, I don't really like this thing. There's room for power tools of desktops Sure, KDE Plasma is full features and they are discoverable because there are Signifiers Signifiers for them IE clutter new users won't know how everything works But they can explore learn and change everything to fit their needs Okay, kind of kind of I think that was it. Interesting part was this one. Hopefully this was interesting There's a I hope you learned something So I learned that it's all about system setting and some bugs and I mean the stability issues I don't think they're ever going to go away completely But we can and are surely trying to improve on that There's lots of talk about how that could be done in particular And about system settings again, there is movement to actually redesign all of the sidebar The organization and where things are so hopefully in a couple of years This situation on that will improve too and since we did a redesign and now the look is completely different compared to before Hopefully we can be happier and are Well, we can be happier that we're actually improving the product significantly