 Hey Lance Hello, Ed. How are you? Hey Bjorn? I'm pretty good Good hey out in space today. Hello. Yes I'm hoping we reach orbit today Thomas, I don't know if we've met I'm Ed and hello Victor. I work with Bjorn Hi, hi, good to meet you Good morning. Hi, Thomas. Hi, Victor. Hi. Hi. Is that Sikpa Victor or different Victor? Oh, Sikpa? No, no, not Victor from Sikpa No Yeah, okay. Yeah, I have logged in. So yeah, I'm just I don't attend regularly Just actually some I guess some questions About the calm and I joined once before Just about just how does like to come works and How is it related to like like open ID? Yeah Yeah, good. Yeah, welcome. Glad to have you today. We'll be doing a lot of Kind of back and forth to where we're planning to do a did come v2 connectathon at IW which is a conference identity conference coming up and Yeah, I guess we can do we'll do like a quick Intro and you know point you to some resources that I think will help Hey, Bruce say Alex Hey guys Can you hear me? Yep. You sound good We'll get started in about 30 seconds Victor I'm gonna post a few links in the chat that I think could be helpful. I don't know how much Oops. Well, that didn't go as well as I'd hoped. I don't know how far you've gotten with did come Yes, I read something about it briefly so I'm mainly how the the did come just basically distributed the identity work with the The the open ID connect How's it related basically? Yeah, sure. I'm gonna post a really good article that Does a comparison between them? I don't think that we'll probably do it justice here, but If anyone would like to give some comments real quick while I look for this link go for it They they certainly are related but there are some key differences as well, so Just let me find that article I mean my two cents on the comparison is that Did come and open ID are related in the sense that they can both be used to exchange credentials Uh, and yeah exchange verifiable presentation, so I DC as I DC for BP and I DC for I don't know what's the other acronym and then Did come has the issue This credential protocol and the present proof protocol. So Those are the way You would compare those two in my mind Yeah, the issue open ID for BC and open ID for BP versus issue credential versus present proof Yeah, I think that that's that's a part of confused me because I see sometimes that like related the projects cut s IOP I think I believe it's the Because Yeah, so some of it makes me the impression that is the did come and the open ID work together Other literature basically say there's a two separate independent solution for the same problem So that's that's where it's uh confusing for me Yeah Personally like to me Sounds that like if you're ready for OIDC and the offload you would like to Integrate YDC for DC and BP just because of the infrastructure. They already have But if you're like they've come friendly or if you already have that come then you can exchange credential using uh They've come protocols Like I think you can it's kind of like doing the same thing in two different ways Okay Okay I'll read what's posted. Thank you Yeah, I'll say that linkedin search really stinks because uh, I know that the terms I'm searching for Should result in a post that I made to linkedin and it's coming back with nothing but uh, oh Did I find us at least a similar post? No, um Yeah, it essentially is a post with a diagram from last IOW where they show Yeah, essentially being issued a credential uh the OIDC for VC and then using that credential in you know, some did come Follow on protocols for instance. So uh, just highlighting How you could use both of them um, you know as part of uh, your your receipt and management of of verifiable credentials, but um Yeah, I'm not finding it easily and we probably need to get started If I if I can catch it later, I will and post it But I think also the um the median uh the the um Yeah, the daniel hardman medium um post that I put in there that says centuries confessionals vaults and envelopes I think is also uh Does a good job of trying to use kind of some uh real world metaphors for how these two stacks or I guess, you know technologies uh differ in terms of you know, what they're what they're trying to achieve So hopefully those hope Okay. Yeah. Yeah glad to have you back there Okay, I'll post the um meeting link one more time here because Anyone new will have missed That uh and let's get started. So um, I think today we're we're very focused. Uh, oh, I need to share my screen Okay sharing Yes That looks right Okay, so hopefully you're seeing today's meeting screen. Just let me know if not and um Uh, yeah, welcome today is uh, the is April 3rd. Uh, so we have one more meeting before Yes, we have one more meeting before We'll all be gone or a bunch of us will be gone for IW that doesn't mean that this meeting can't happen In two Mondays, uh, if somebody wants to host it, that's fine. Just let me know Um And so because we're approaching IW we're uh, we're going to focus today on the connectathon and just how it'll go and you know what we plan to show And see where we land for that. Uh, I just have to remind everybody about the um hyper ledger antitrust policy Uh, as well as the hyper ledger code of conduct And feel free to add yourself to the attendees list, uh, if you like so this is you know, it's a wiki page It's editable. So feel free Uh to add yourself I'm just going to generally ask are there any uh important updates Related to the aries ecosystem or or anything else going on in the didcom or IW uh world that that anyone wants to share Okay Yeah, if something comes to mind feel free to uh You speak up no problem Because we're moving a bit fast today Okay, so um the let's open our Our oh, that's not what I wanted to do Okay, let's open our our hack md. I'll post that link as well to I think that the only news that I have is like I was talking to sam about did peer three and uh to Since we're trying to deprecate did peer one and two And like to have like a shortened version uh We discussed that just having the hacks of the shout to 56 of the did peer two Uh would be kind of sufficient for having the shorthand version for that Okay, yeah any thoughts on that Yeah, like feedback would be greatly appreciated if you guys can think of uh any other ways of Uh shrinking the the did peer two Uh after the first send Now that's a little bit interesting in the sense that when we've talked about that as part of the ari's interop profile three Um, I don't think that anybody was certain whether having the shorter Um identifiers is really important. Is there any you know more thoughts on that? Um, you know, we've we've said it's a goal possibly to have shorter identifiers, but um Is that something that really is uh important? I guess we we we weren't positive that that in real world use cases that that That would be important thing thoughts Yeah, it's hard to know, right I think that did you that sam was saying that Like in actually like deployments sending The peer to every time can get uh quite heavy So the idea is to only like send it for the first time and uh, you can reuse it later Uh, unless like you of course you can always like switch the methods Switch the ideas whenever like you send a new message Yeah Yeah, fair enough any other thoughts on that Thomas, oh, yeah. Yeah. Thomas go ahead Yeah, I just I'm just wondering is this the uh, the did carry light thing we're talking about with a different name now Yeah, similar similar concept. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I just thought I missed the whole thread of conversation, but okay Yeah Yeah, so we where can I where can I read up on it? So how can I implement it? Yeah, go ahead, Alex. Well, you you said a shout 256 hash Yeah, yeah, so I mean like right now like I have like a Very basic implementation python that just takes the shout 256 of the long form deep peer and then just get the hacks from it for deep peer 3 And then deep peer 2 stays the same for generating the the document No The Yeah, are you are you going to to demo this at at the meeting? Oh, this is too early Uh, it's not, uh, I do have it running. It's uh, let me see if I can find it Well, never mind. Maybe we can we can get together offline, you know, and and and try to interoff and and see If we can connect with each other that would be good, wouldn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the idea is to be able to use Oh, Alex, I think I lost you or did I lose everybody? Can people hear me? Yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah, Alex, we can't hear you Yeah, I still can't hear you Alex. Um, I'll I'll just since I'll use his uh Him getting cut off. Uh, I I think it would be cool to play with that concept. Um But my preference is it would be after the iiw connected I think we have a lot of a lot of work to do back and forth Um for did come Connect, uh, you know our did comp scenario, especially with all the work that you've done at this point, Thomas I would I would love to to reflect all of that work, uh in our own connections with your your stuff, so Can you guys hear me? Yep, we can hear you now Uh, yeah, uh, I wasn't sure. Okay. Nice. Okay. So it works better Yeah, the last the last thing that we heard you were saying, uh, that yeah that you guys maybe could get together and to uh Yeah, we can do that like afterwards. Uh, for sure. Uh, yeah, but like like lanset is uh, it's going to be probably like after iiw Since like this period three is not like a requirement for iiw by any means. It was uh, yeah, it was like the idea of Replacing carry life because some people in the areas community are afraid of carry Uh, so just kind of like reward and like refactoring like in a slightly different way. That was kind of The idea behind that. Yeah I like it. Alex, I you said that you're gonna be deprecated numalgo one Okay Yeah, I mean, uh, it's either namago one in two and three becomes two plus the abbreviated version. I think Okay. Okay. Okay Yeah, just I don't know but uh Just check if black three is better than sharp But I don't know the Yeah, I Have to check that. Yeah Yeah, good boy Okay, so um, all right, let's make sure we go over the information and get status updates from everybody and just get a feeling for How we're doing in terms of converging Um, so the the hack md, which I posted in the chat, uh is essentially our working document So the demonstration, uh, is going to be on wednesday april 19th From 132 30 for those who aren't going to be there the we still hope to um, you know, for instance if today we did an exchange I would you know, it's it gets recorded and I would happily um, you know, snip that that Recording out and and kind of create like a highlight video Of it. So if there is um, if anybody's not going to be present Or even if you just um go through maybe even some Longer set of steps and you just want to make sure that we we capture that so that we can show it You know, because the demo gods might not be kind to us at iw for whatever reason I would just love to have more and more, um examples to show people of um Of did tom connections and interop But the the actual uh time is uh right after lunch on on the 19th. So that's the wednesday Uh, and we're table number 11. Uh, there's a demo Uh table list, which is just you know all the different demos that are happening You know, not just ours, but um our description right now reads like it's a roots id demo I submitted an update to them That hopefully they'll process soon. Uh, they said that they were busy So eventually this demo table list will read essentially like Our entire group, uh, you know roots id prism nessus block trust Varamo Hopefully aviary tech although I don't know if I heard back from brian. I think I reached out to him And uh, also the pico labs students some of them reached out. So I sent them some information. So anyways, yeah It'll it'll read that way as if it's a connect-a-thon And that others could join if they wanted to We still have our required list and our optional list, you know, the core did come V2 spec things and then kind of additional Protocols that that we think will be useful Any comments on any of that stuff Okay That's fine. We feel free to speak up at any moment as I move through it We have our list of mediators happy to update this with with anything additional as people get it and then Yeah, the air travel use case Is is what thomas has been kind of walking through and you know, it's from w3c for for You know talking about some of the complexities of verifiable credentials. So I think it's really nice Um, so essentially we want to show as much of this scenario as possible But if all we can do is pass a single message between, you know, two agents, that's fine, too. That's in effect That's great. It's not just fine. It's great. So no pressure there And yeah, you want to be able to support did peer for sure, uh, no mile go to and Yeah, I would love to have Well, we can we can list kind of The the set of successful interrupts That we have I would love to kind of document that in a way so that we can Just capture Everything that's happened running up to i w and during i w and then yeah, maybe something right after as well If if there was some small missing piece or we we realized that there's Some additional Functionality that we can easily, you know low hanging fruit type stuff Okay, so I think that's it on the details Is there anything that people want to comment on that we should add to the document or anything else that could help Uh, this kind of happened Yeah, go ahead thomas So How are you planning to to do this recorded thing Are we Are we going to have are we going to rehearse this and and then when we're happy to record it or You know, uh, yeah Yeah, it's a great question. You're gonna do this. Yeah, so, um Let's just start at what happened last time last time essentially, uh roots wallet showed Chat between uh to to roots wallet essentially agent, uh, you know, uh, You know chat looking interfaces on mobile and using The roots id mediator and so for us that was a nice big step and that's what we showed last time Kind of off the back of that that ended up being like this ad hoc connectathon that that happened and There was various forms of failure during that connectathon, but just because it was ad hoc and very early stages And and getting did come obviously to interrupt, you know, in terms of Cryptography and the did methods and things like that it does require a little bit of coordination or We could just say more maturity than than where a lot of the implementations were So yes, this time it would be awesome if for one thing, you know We all supported the same did methods so that we can do a proper resolution of each other's dids, uh, and then um Right we need to test with each other Hopefully ahead of time so that uh, if there is some Assumption that somebody made about their um implementation of did come. Uh, I think a lot of us are using the sick pa um libraries and so that helps uh for the possibility of of interop, but um Yes, I would love for us to be getting together and practicing Before hand and then if we're if we have successes I would love to just record it because you could imagine Like a highlights video that basically says something like, uh, you know You know roots wallet to nesses, right and it just shows like the interaction between the two right and and um You know same with uh, you know prism and block trust or you know, whatever it is all all of these different ones It would just be nice to show Uh that back and forth a lot of the community maybe doesn't understand how difficult that is Or or I wouldn't say difficult what an achievement that is Um, what a nice step forward that is for the community, but um, I guess for us as a community It's a good good chance for us to kind of solidify so That's why that's why I want to do the recording because I know like you won't be there for instance So, um, I would I would just love to be able to you know, if I'm talking to somebody Let's say we do a quick demonstration Uh, but I'm talking to somebody and then I say, oh, you know, look at this really nice, uh, you know interop We did with nesses and it's a really nice interface and you can see he's doing aliases and auto completion And you know, we're we're connecting over did come me too. So Okay, so If we when we talk specifics They're like 16 days left, right? So so we have let's say we want to meet four times. This would be like You know in a four day interval we meet. Yeah, and so when do we meet? Who is going to meet? How long are these? Uh Rehearsal sessions are going to last, right? So I think at this stage we want to be very specific about this Right. So so on on my side, it'll be obviously me, right? So so we we meet at I would suggest we We set aside some slots Yeah, sometimes lots at certain days where we actually do some work, right and and hopefully Uh, and hopefully at the end of these sessions at the end of these four sessions We will have a decent video that that we can present Yeah, I totally agree. Um, so because it's a little bit peer-to-peer here You know, it's been it's been pretty loose, but you're exactly right. The point of today is to essentially Make sure that everyone who wants to be able to Interop with anyone else That this is the time to schedule that Let me give a little like insight into for roots ID We essentially wanted to be ahead of where we are but we're I think we're doing quite well For this week, we're going to focus specifically on roots ID Specific things. That's not saying we can't meet with you Thomas or somebody else and and do a session. We definitely could I'll leave that to you know, Alex and and word also maybe or and to kind of set that up but We definitely as roots ID, we want to make sure we've got everything nailed down this week because we've got some like UI things that we you know also have in flux that we're working so that gives us the next week We hope to schedule these sessions with you Maybe with prism like we've done a session in the past with prism, but we probably should do a more Like official and recorded session with them same with block trust We've had some of these interactions, but not recorded. I would love to get them recorded So for us, we're targeting next week to do a bunch of those interactions and recordings So hopefully everybody else feels like this week and next week or I mean, that's it. That's what we have so This is a good time to give updates. So that's the roots ID update How about for you Thomas? What's what's your timing look like? Well, I'm available So I think, you know that this is Like like a fourth night is is a pretty tight schedule right to to achieve this what we want to achieve. So I'm ready when you are in a sense, right? So so this is this will be my focus The updates I I have Since last week is there is now A present proof is integrated Yeah, so so this should help we present proof is integrated in the in the playground and there was a There was an update to to the docker container concerning You know arm Arm architectures like like if you run on a macbook, for example, right? So and and that that image was really sluggish, right? so the cli It could happen that it's not useful at all, you know on on the macbook and I suspect people want to try it out So this this issue is gone, which is very nice We now have a multi multi arc image and it's really snappy now on on all these, you know on on the arm 64 architecture as well and I've taken out support for acupy for now Because there was a huge, you know, because the focus is did come right and and there was a a huge body of code that I had to maintain just to keep Basic connectivity functionality going with acupy, but that's not the focus and nobody's interested in that actually, you know Who wants a cli that can only do basic connection with acupy and nothing else, right? Nobody needs that. So I I've taken this out for now Yeah, we can always like bring it back in again when when acupy is ready for for did come v2 But maybe it should it should wait for that um, yeah so therefore if According to your schedule, right? So so whenever you like We can do these sessions, right? And and I I think to give it a fair chance for success. We should have at least four, I think Yeah to I mean if we can do it in two or three, it's even better, right? But but we should sort of think about Doing like perhaps four hourly sessions. So this would give us four hours to actually get this this Raw material for a decent recording going and if we can't make it in those four sessions Well, yeah, and then that's that's what it is. You're right. And and we have another shot in october. Maybe yeah, but But yeah, that's that's my take on it That sounds really good. Yeah thoughts. Yeah, I have two questions to thomas One is uh, are you using the pr Malgo two or which one are you using just to see how we can interoperate the the connection, right? Yeah, I mean this goes back to our discussions. We had like several weeks ago. Yeah, so I I at that at that time I um, I demoed the use of did key with that attachment Right extension. Yeah, where where I attached the document and the week after I I Sort of looked at this did peer thing and on the playground if you look at the At the landing page from from the playground you can switch between the two Right. So so I give you I give you the the link to to the playground again And if you if you click on it, you see you see a switch Just under these uh government hospital airport dits and it says did peer and did key, right? So if you click on did key On did peer you you see the num algo two, right? And then you get different invitation messages, which which would be standard in this way Right, and and also for simplification It it might actually help I have these these scripts From the client side. Yeah, you would be the client in this case roots ID would be the client So I have these scripts which run the whole scenario and so you can look at at At the messages That work when nesses talks to nesses, right? So you start from a working scenario, right? So this in code working scenario might be wrong, of course, right and and your feedback Will say no, this is wrong. It needs to change. But at least it's working, right? So so we can we can use those And we can use to peer too, of course, right then that it's not proprietary Yeah, that's one good question. So in our like last number IAW the way we Connected the two agents is by using like scanning like a qr code like another bound invitation Would it be yeah possible for you to just like display that? Yeah That in the in there as well like because whenever you click on the invitation It kind of shows the the j somebody of it Yeah, also have like another thing that we can add the qr code. So Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that. Yeah Awesome. Thank you Okay, and the second question is do you support sending a forward message? So if we if I My DID is behind a mediator No, are you able to okay? No, no No, this this is point peer to peer only currently Okay So the other party is is nesses in this case, right? So it's the playground in a sense Yeah, so so what you have? So what you have is is the playground acting as the government the hospital and the airport, right and and and those institutions They provide you happily with verifiable credentials when you send the Propose Verifiable credential yeah from the from the issue credential protocol you send a propose and you get and then it goes through the handshake and and you get the The verifiable credential and then with that you can you can use the present proof Thing right and and send you prepare on Ruth's wallet You you prepare the verifiable presentation and you send this to to the playground as well And then the playground these institutions in this case it would be the airport and the airport Verifies that presentation that you prepared on the on the roots wallet Okay, the thing with roots Wallace that is since it's in a mobile device They don't have an endpoint. So we cannot do peer to peer you cannot send A message to and then yeah to the to the mobile, right? And that's why is this we are behind Yeah, and and is this is this something I need to worry about or is this not transparent to To the endpoint URL that that malati is communicating There's a key wrapping Well, that's that's that was my question because If you implement it If you really didn't peer and in the service endpoint, you don't find a URL But instead you find it That is my mediator with a That has a url the mediator has a url you need to wrap the message in a forward message Following the spec and pass it to the mediator. So I that's I'm gonna Be able to wallet you to recover that but you need to have implemented the forward part of the specification Well, we don't we haven't even implemented A did resolution Right. So so there is no no resolver involved. So so this this relies on This one relies on both parties communicating their respective endpoint URLs to each other How you get the endpoint URL? Uh, well, it's encoded in in in did peer 2. It's encoded there. Okay. Well, that that's a resolution, right? Okay, so if that works then then yeah, so if that works, it's fine, right? Yeah, when I'm saying that if you don't find the url and instead you find a div that's gonna For the protocol, it's gonna let you know that this should be a forward message And and then you need to be able to make that wrap and pass it to that url, but Okay, I think Yeah, I think we need to we need to look at into this. Okay. It's not hard Yeah, so this is thomas is isn't uncommon, you know, essentially for A person like you who has been doing so much development, you know, between their own agents and things like that to then You know Realize that with mobile agents, uh, there you are less functional will put it that way, right? And so this mediation step um Is well defined, but uh, right it is an extra Well, it was it was my impression that This mediation step is between the mobile wallet and its respective mediator And that's correct. Yeah, and and the other peer does not need to worry about this, right? So So if if this assumption is not correct, then I need to do something, but if it's correct, then it should work Well, the that's the we need to understand what is the that the other party don't need to worry about It doesn't mean that you know that this Mediator behind that but you need to cover the routine part of the specification And that's the thing that you need to worry about because you're gonna you're gonna receive a Service endpoint that is not the url. So you your Or either your program crash or understand what to do with that, right? Yeah, okay. Let's try it out. Yeah Yeah, but it's easy. It's it's simply. Yeah, you need to check look at the routing part Okay, so so when when are we trying to do this? Hmm I mean, that's certainly the sooner. Yeah, it's the sooner the better for all of this stuff because Yeah, exactly. Um, it's only going to take this. This was the lesson of the last, uh, Connect-a-thon or inter-op-a-thon that it only takes one Issue to make it so that nothing else can happen. So Exactly. Yeah, so I I leave it to essentially you and Alex and Rodolfo to Decide what is the earliest possible time that you guys can try this see how it breaks and then go back and start fixing stuff Okay, so let's let's coordinate this on on discord. Maybe yeah, yes Yeah, if everybody and that's good for everybody that um, please post as much as possible to the Uh, you know Aries did come uh discord Just so that people can see activity happening and we can I can you know add updates and Right if we run into something that Was unforeseen we can kind of disseminate that information as well. Yeah So maybe we can jump in here because um, we So, um, we have this um browser extension wallet and are facing the same problem as with the mobile and wallets So we you can't talk to us directly But we have also mediator in between So it's more or less the same architecture as with the roots team and We could try this uh this week if you want Because it's more or less the same Um, and maybe can you explain what happens when we send a basic message to you? Well, it starts it starts with an invitation Right, so it starts with an invitation and and your entry point is the playground Which you know that that url and s's take playground thing and you click on the link and and there you get the out of band invitation Right, and it's it's your responsibility then to use that invitation To send a trust ping, right? So that uh, the the playground then receives the Trust ping and responds with a trust ping response. And then the connection exists Right, okay, and and based on that connection on that connection. Uh, you can send basic messages So it supports the uh, it supports the basic message protocol that that akapai specifies. That's the rfc Uh, 43 or something. Yeah, so it tells you what What's the the basic message protocol that it supports? Yeah 95 Yeah So and the playground is is a cloud agent which is currently online. So I could send a basic message there. Okay. Yeah Yeah, okay, so so the first thing you do is is you select the dit methods It will be did key did key or did peer And and you get the invitation link and there you get a did conv2 message which is the out of band invitation and you send a ping To the url that gets communicated in the in the invitation and you get a ping response Right, and and then you have a connection and we can based on that connection You can basic you can do basic message. You can do other trust things. You can propose a credential Right, you can propose a credential And from any of these three institutions. So for example the passport credential from the government You can do that and with you will receive that Verifiable credential that represents your passport and you you prepare a verifiable presentation and you use the present proof protocol to send it for example to the airport, right and and that is the The whole use case then So did you do you require? And that you receive the trust ping before receiving a basic message Yeah, of course, you know, I mean some that there needs to be some form of of acknowledging our first First message from from the peer to the inviter that establishes that that connection and This is not very well standardized in in the Version one of the protocols. It used to be the trust ping And I just you know, it's not my idea. So I just inherited the trust ping but I think in in in did conv2 it could be equally be a basic message, but that's not implemented Right. So the the playground the playground accepts a trust ping message and We used to have From prior Implementation on on the playground side when it receives the trust ping it rotated its did And in the ping response it sent another did but that's awkward, you know from from the scripting perspective If you want to script the steps, it's much easier to have like stable dits that communicate So that so the government has it did the airport the hospital And malati rayesh and anand they all have like stable dits, right and and I turned it off the In configuration. Yeah, so so so you don't have to worry about this from prior and and changing dits And what I suggest is is that that you do this from the client side You do this with the cli first because then you see the messages, right? You see you you can do the steps individually and if you run the whole script the The the client script then you see all the messages, right? Right and tomahill you said RFC 95 the basic message so But in this conv two we are using the basic message Version two that is just the same but changing some headers So I think that's something we need to adapt here Yeah, I have to check again, you know, it's not it's not they are It's on the it's a protocol, right? Yeah. Yes. Yes, it it will be exactly these details that we would like to discover In the next three weeks. Yeah, yeah, right. That's yeah, that's why we're talking Yeah So we we implemented that one the basic message version two Really similar but it's the only difference that he has the way that the envelope is And did it come be two instead of did it come be one? Yeah, all envelopes will be did come be two. Yeah, okay. So probably it's gonna be the same. I think they Don't remember. Maybe change some date and but if we have We can adapt. Yeah So I I just posted the uh the client side script Yeah, and there you see the cli commands For the use case, right? And if you if you execute this script or if you copy paste individually Individual cli commands you can look at the messages Right that are exchanged between the client side and the playground Right, so so if you're if if your client understands these did come be two messages Or you say well, this is wrong. I need to see another message that needs to be fixed on my site You know, I'm more than happy to do this ASAP, right? So so this is what what our successful depend on. Yeah that we have like tight feedback loops Uh until we we successfully can run the whole use case scenario So ideally, you know ideally next day perhaps, right? So Sorry, I was just gonna say these conversations are beautiful. Let's keep it going. This is awesome. This is the the real details Yeah, I I hit your link for the basic message and you're already adapted to to the yeah. Yeah, so we are okay So I just tried is there anything Besides sending a trust thing uh Then is required before So like I read the out of band invitation Right, and then I'm going to send the trust thing to that uh to that the peer Uh, and then like whenever I guess I do that I get there's no connection between mighty peer and Arrow like you're the peer Uh, is there like any other step that's required? Well, if if you if you communicated a URL that that the play count Playground can you you should receive an error, right? Which which the the uh Uh problem report protocol is not yet implemented, right? So this is still on the list I so ideally we have that for for the demo as well But but you you should you should see uh the the server side errors Right and if you don't or if it's not sufficient, uh, then You know, we need to work together to to solve this then I will look at the server side what is happening but but I assume that that if if the uh Trust thing is properly formatted and the url is correct Then the the playground will respond with a with a ping response To that url and you should see the ping response Yeah, that's part of the problem that we don't get it because on our side the mediators in between So I think the scenario would be we send a trust ping And then wait for a bit and then send a basic message and hope the basic basic message gets displayed That's I'm I think the most easy scenario we can all get working Well, is is that really true because if if you send a trust ping There is some some sort of url communicated some endpoint url And the other side will respond to that endpoint url, which will be your mediator. I suppose, right Yeah, there must be some address that that message is get sent to from the other side So in this case it it will get sent to your mediator and and then The ball is at your court again because because you Need to have some some way to get that message from the mediator, right? So so you should you should have a means to to see the ping response, right? And if you don't see the ping response, you you can't assume that the connection is is in active state Yeah, the thing is here that we need this ping risk of the ping wrapped in a forward message again To receive on our devices Uh-huh and and should should the other side create this forward message so that needs to be wrapped Okay, so so this is something I need to do then, right? Okay, yes Okay, yeah, so that yeah, and that's essentially the same Yeah concept that we talked about with mobile. Yeah with with the mobile mediated communication as well Is essentially that yes all these protocol messages are being forwarded By the mediator on to The peer that you're trying to connect with well, maybe we have to take this offline again because this is Conceptually I don't really get it, you know because because the The in this case the government, you know The government should not need to know whether it's talking to a back-end wallet or whether it's talking to a Front-end wallet and it should be sufficient to have a to have a URL to send a message to right? Or is this not yeah, that's not true, but the the protocol If you need a routing to rotate the message through a Another party in this case the mediator, but can be anything Hey, you follow their rules of the protocol What you do is you you create a message to the final definition, right? Yeah, the final user you create you encrypt and everything as normal and then you put that message As an attachment as an attachment to another message that you're going to send to the next hop Aha, and and that and that is communicated in the This is communicated in the did document that I get from in this case the yeah Oh, I see. Okay. So now I get it So so the government actually knows that it's talking to mediator and it knows that it needs to wrap the message Right, right. Yeah, because what you want to find is in when when you resolve this did the peer You're gonna find that you don't have a URL actually instead of a URL. You're gonna find it another d.i.d But okay My url now is a d.i.d. So you you you say, okay I need to send the message to that new d.i.d You're gonna find the url in that and because of that you realize that this is a Routing way like you need to put in a forward message Putting in a forward message just putting as an attachment and encrypt to the this new d.i.d And send it to the url of this new d.i.d Okay Okay And if you're using the sikpa library, I think you also Depending on what you also have like a flag that you can check to prove that Okay, but the thing is that to understand when to to use Okay Well, yeah, okay Yeah, a very normal additional wrinkle uh to yeah to to Run into yes, this is uh, and and I feel like every time we talk about it. Uh, I learn a little bit more Um, but anyways, it shouldn't be that hard. Uh, I don't think especially that's that's the whole point of the internet, right? We blew it But so I guess that also means that like You need to like send we need to send the return route to be all like whenever we send the transpings, right? Uh, and as a custom header for those, right? No, that's only if you That's for the mediator, right? Or if you want to have a A reply on the same thread, but I think we are not using that, right? It's not mandatory to implement that right, right, right so how about this I I show you on this court what uh, what the Trust ping message currently looks like Right, so so this I currently looks like and and that would be obviously wrong And you show me what what the trust ping message should look like with with the did instead of the url And so that that the government Can recognize the scenario and do the wrapping Right, and then I should I show you what the rough message looks like And then you should get the The ping response Yeah, is that how it Would work Okay A question to the roots team. Do you see when a party pins you If I see one in my wallet or yeah, yeah, have you ever? Yeah, did you see that? No Yeah, I would didn't implement that way. I think what we do is we can send a ping And we can Respond to a ping so what what I I implemented when I receive a ping I just replay replay back, right? Okay, but I don't think we put that on the on the ui But in in this case you would need to be able to send a ping Right and you need to be able to get some feedback from that ping So specifically a ping response because if you don't if you if you can't see a ping response You need to assume based on timing perhaps Well, by now it should have got my ping and by now I should be able to send a basic message But you can never be sure right so so the correct Sequence of things would be you send a ping And you expect a ping response from your mediator And when you got the ping response, you can assume that the connection is active And then you can go on and send basic messages Good. Good. Yeah. Yeah. This is like your connection protocol. Yeah, and we we know that other party that is the Atala presentation Implemented instead of a ping implemented just his own Version connection protocol, but it's the same right. It's like sending a message with whatever body and expect every playback, right? And that's the way they They start establishing this connection and then to start another protocol after that Basically in the under out of band invitation You have some id and that's carried around through all the steps And then you get it back and know that this exact out of band invitation was yeah Yeah, it's the thread id. Yeah No, no for prism or is it the thread id for prism? No, no for the company too is the thread id Yeah Okay, we have four minutes left. So um Yes, if there are important wrap up discussions we need to have Well, I just discovered that this week is Easter. So it's holiday in argentinian so it's gonna be tighter for me, but That's all right, Alex will just work extra, right Alex? My my easter is next week Oh, oh interesting. Okay multiple easters. Okay. Yeah. I mean fair enough my kids My kids are on school holidays and they want to do fun stuff with me. Yes. Okay So all of this is going to be an Easter miracle if we get this Okay Well, yeah, I just encouraging everyone to connect As early as possible You know, feel free to reach out to me. I'm happy to be a mediator for You know establishing these meetings if we have to between, you know, single groups of us or, you know, we can do group Meetings as well where we just throw, you know, a link out on on discord That that anyone can join if they want. I am open to anything. I really want to see Us be as successful as we can be I think discussing mediation today was huge. So fantastic If there's something you think I can do to help us as a group come together Let me know. I will do it um, yeah, and We have two minutes. So anything else we have Yes, like like Asians on the cloud we can post like out of one way on discord and see if we can Get a ping with response or whatever. We can also start doing that kind of stuff Yes, please as much as much posting activity on on discord as possible Is everybody in the aries did come v2 working group discord? Or do we want to use the did come user group? I mean both places would be fine for for us as roots id You know, we're we're at both spots So if someone could send me an invite to that discord, it would be great Great So are you on ed? Are you on the hyper ledger foundation server at all? Yes Okay, if you search for aries did come v2 Uh aries dash did come dash v2. Let me see. I see alex is typing. Maybe he's about to try to add you I'm also looking to see if I can add you All right What's your username ed? There's a lot of ads Yeah, I think it's oh, that's a good question. I'll type it in the chat. I have to look it up. Okay Yeah, discord's weird that way. I have uh You know, we've had customers that I've had to be like can everyone give me a map of your discord handle to your actual real name I have no idea who just Said whatever Yeah Is this the did come user group thing? Aries dash did come dash v2. It should say Oh, so this is not the diff one It's not the diff. Oh, the diff one's fine, too. Though, uh, you know, I would love it if we were all in one place, but you know I'm flexible on where We would prefer to post. I mean definitely the user group is Is is a great place as well Thoughts feelings on that. I mean if we're all in the If anyone's not in did come Uh, use a group for the diff server I guess speak up Yes, the other one Yeah, and feel free to you know tag Me if you if you want to get my attention Again, I'm just trying to make it as I want you all to connect as much as possible Yeah, okay. So we agree on aries did come dash v2 user group That that's fine for me everybody. Okay, which one? Sorry The aries did come v2. Okay. Good. Good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, good. Okay. I see it great. Okay great meeting everybody Uh, well, let's hope for an Easter miracle and uh, yeah Look forward to interupping and connecting with you. Okay. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye