 Welcome everybody we're here on H 387. These are this is the general housing military terrorist committee. And well I want to welcome our witnesses here today I see 123454. So let's get started with it with with committee record. Sorry committee introductions. Thank you. Mr. Chair. I am Mary Howard. I represent Rutland South District 53. Welcome. Hi, I'm representative chip Toriano. I represent hard standard and Walden up in the Northeast Kingdom. Welcome to the House General Committee. How's everybody doing representative that by wrong for judge represent five communities in Northwest Madison County. Good afternoon I'm representative Lisa Hango I represent Franklin five, which is Richard Berkshire Franklin and Highgate on the northern border. Hi, I'm just lonely, and I represent Burlington south end. John from coffee. I represent Groton, Thompson and Newberry. Hi, welcome. John classic representing. Hi, I'm Tommy waltz I represent very city. serving their backs from the district of Franklin to representative Tom Stevens I live in Waterbury represent Waterbury Huntington Bolton and deal score. Welcome everyone. We're going to start this this afternoon's testimony with Dr. The Reverend Dr. Arnold Thomas welcome Arnold good to see you. Let me unmute myself. There you go. And as you know that I'm glad to be invited to this occasion on this most important topic regarding the establishment of a reparations task force. I think that, as we discussed the possibility of establishing this task force we need to look at the, the historical context, and which this concern rises. The establishment of slavery was a strongly was so strongly supported in the north, and in the New England states that New York City, for instance, the nation's largest city that benefited from enslaved labor production of cotton, nearly from the union with the southern states, with the intent of renaming itself try insula, meaning three islands and Latin referring to Long Island, Staten Island, and Manhattan. And while New York State favorite the election of Abraham Lincoln, New York City, in particular voted in favor of his opponent, Stephen Douglas, who like Lincoln represented Illinois. He was a native of Vermont, born in Brandon Vermont. Now, while Douglas represented the slave free state of Illinois, his personal and political livelihood was also supported by slavery. The wife Martha Martin was the daughter of a wealthy southern planter who bequeathed to her a 2500 acre cotton plantation with 100 slaves and appointed Douglas, the property manager. 20% of its income from this property was used to advance his political career. The pursuit toward slavery reflected that of many Vermonters from the state's inception to the first half of the 19th century specifically that while slavery was a gross evil. It was still a necessary evil that bolstered most of the economy of both north and the south. It was the largest income producer during the first half of the 19th century largely because of enslaved labor and to maintain white hegemony in so called free states such as New York, Illinois, Indiana, Connecticut, and Massachusetts. African Americans without property would deny the right to vote. The small percentage of free blacks who own property, even in Vermont where property was not a prerequisite for suffrage, pose no threat as long as their population growth was discouraged. Now in Vermont such discouragement took the form of bias behavior and regulations supported by political social and religious leaders who have hordes slavery. Yet who also have horde the unbridled emancipation of African Americans, who whites regarded as inferior to themselves, granting black people equal status with white Americans, allowing them to live work and intermarry, intermarry, intermarry within the predominantly white culture was a nightmare for white Vermont for white Vermonters who preferred to avoid who preferred to read their state and the nation of this population by settling them in Africa. This revealed that Vermont during the first half of the 19th century was hostile toward those advocating fully quality between blacks and whites. In 1843 Frederick Douglass was invited to speak in several Vermont towns and afterwards reported that most of the towns he visited revealed that Vermont was surprisingly under the influence of the slave power. And most he goes on to say her proud boast within her borders that no slave had ever been delivered up to his master did not prevent her hatred to anti slavery. He further wrote that in Middlebury the opposition to our anti slavery convention was intensely bitter and violent. The people attended our meeting and apparently little was accomplished in the quote only in Ferrisburg the home of Roland Robinson, whose farm served as a station on the underground railroad, and is presently the site of the road museum, the Douglas receive a favorable reception. The point is this reparations in Vermont require the sobering acknowledgement that Vermont, like most of America prior to the Civil War was compliant with the institution of slavery and reading of this nation of the vast majority of free America and African Americans was its intent was the intent of many of the most reputable leaders in our state. Reparations and reconciliation cannot occur, and tell the truth of our history is revealed, accepted, and embraced. And I hope that the establishment of a reparations committee will include this intent to expose Vermonters to the reality of our past. Thank you. Thank you, Arnold, and we will see you tomorrow as well to comment on. It's 96. Yes. Similarities that is not the same as this bill here. So thank you. You're welcome. Let's move to Lydia diamond. I'm Lydia diamond. And I'm a South Burlington resident. I'm originally from Brooklyn but I've been here 20 plus years. I want, I want to say thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak about reparations, and we need this reparations task force, because we are still oppressed. We are still areas in which things are not equal, or we are not allowed. I shared with the group that I'm coming up on 40 years of skin in the game of bingo. And doing my research bingo is as old as the 1500s it came from like Italy or Spain, but it came to America 1929. Now from then to now, with having 40 years of skin in the game. I was 19, I should say when I got my first bingo job, you know, and then, you know, a word that learned to play. But we are still oppressed in bingo, because black charities benefiting or profiting from this lucrative business don't exist. In this country, black charities don't have any history of running a bingo game or profiting. And I, I've never seen a black charity anywhere. I've been in this country. I've seen black people, you know, get a job. Bingo is big business, and we are not allowed in it. I'm still trying to get my foot in the door. And it, and the task force can help to back me up, you know, because this is something that we should be equal. It's equal for us as it is for others or for white folks. But that's just one example I could wanted to share. And reparations is also a start to healing. Um, it's not something that we haven't talked about. We talked about it with other ethnicities, but black people are just way overdue for reparations. And I think this task force will help us make that next step. Thank you. Thank you, Lydia. Lydia, before we move to the next witness, can you just, I forgot to mention that you were with the people's kitchen. Oh, I am. I am with the people's kitchen. And Brooklyn Strong, which is a children's cancer society that named after my granddaughter who's 10 she was diagnosed at seven. And what I realized after she was diagnosed, and the insurance company told my family that although her doctor requested a special doctorate, the insurance company said, Oh, she don't need it. We're not going to pay for that. And it made me step up in my advocacy to make sure my granddaughter gets everything that she needs right here in the state where she was born and raised. Vermont is small, but powerful. And I feel like Vermont should have its own leukemia and lymphoma leukemia and lymphoma society, right here in our state. And I feel like we shouldn't have to be tacked on to New York or tacked on to Massachusetts. We should have our own. And that was the purpose of me starting Brooklyn strong. It's not just about my granddaughter, it's about all of our children in our community, battling cancer, they need all the support they, they can get all they're entitled to right here in our community as so important and essential. Thank you. And thank you for your advocacy for that. That's it. It's incredibly important. For us to hear. Thank you. I want to mention one more thing. Last, last year, women of color were there were so many frightening and disparaging stories about attacks and violence against women of color. And I think that is just despicable to see so much. I mean, women trying women of color trying to run in the red, the legislature, it seemed to be targeting anyone, any woman of color who wanted to represent the state. And they were targeted and their needs to be better. I mean, Burlington is grappling with who's going to be the next police chief. I want to know who will be the next Attorney General because I haven't seen any, anything, anything that the Attorney General has done regarding all this violence and harassment and attacking families having to move from one party to state to another, because they fear for their lives. That's not right. That's not right. So women of color. I feel like we need to get together. We need to start to back each other up and be there for one another, because if I don't have, at least my sister to lean on who do I turn to. I can't call now one one. They are of no use to me up. Well, let's see if she come back in a minute. Next on our list here is Karen is a seat. Karen, welcome to the general housing military affairs committee. Hi everyone hear me. Can I be heard. Yes, you can. Okay, great. Welcome. My name is Karen Sita. I am the one and only there is none like I some of you are probably wondering. I am royalty. I'm a beauty queen. I was miss black for March 2019 and I'm a shepherd that's not a sheet. This is my infirmary group. This is where I lead myself to water and I have my own green pastures, and I also do it with the community. So one is not alone. I'm excited to be here. For something that the future is excited for us to be doing. Sorry, my computer up. Sorry, Bill H387. I want to thank Representative China Burlinson. The man is way advanced than most of the people in the House representatives, because he is proposing a bill that will literally change our future. And if you're in government, that's the whole point is to change the future. So thank you Representative China. I also want to thank Kristi Hartford of, I think it's Burlinson, Colstein of Nuski, Courts of Lincoln and the other individuals who are listed on this bill, perhaps I'm going to butcher their names, but they know that they're ahead of everybody and way advanced than their colleagues advancing the future. So I'm here to be in support of the bill that poses a task force to study and develop reparation proposals for the institutional channel of savory. Unfortunately, let me just say this, it gives me no joy and my soul is never satisfied by calling my fellow citizens or my fellow Brahmantos racists. But unfortunately, the seed was planted way before I even came on this earth. Now I and others are working to cut it at the root and make sure that the next generation won't even know or understand what this is because they'll be so involved and so connected in a community of love and joy and peace that they won't have to deal with such pain, such racism, such hatred, such microaggressions. Why do we need this? Why do we need to have this bill? Well, one, we need to figure out and I'm a student at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government studying leadership and it's very clear we need a leader in this movement. We need somebody who will teach our community how to lead in a place where people are respecting each other. I mean, unfortunately, there is no person for us in our community to go to. The study must be conducted to figure out why the state does need to apologize. I mean, African-Americans in this state cannot survive. We have struggled to survive and when we are surviving, we're struggling off bread crumbs and there's a new generation that's rising up that wants to make our own bread so we don't have to worry about people feeding us crumbs. It's unfortunate, people like Kaia Morris can't survive. People, black women who want to be part of our government can't survive because only them are the ones that are being harassed. Only them are the ones that have to decide between being a mother or representing a state that is not going to protect them or people like Eboni Neoni who was way advanced in all of us, even understood when she proposed Black Lives Matter and was hated by everybody. And now all of a sudden, everybody loves Black Lives Matter but before when a black woman introduced it to the state, we couldn't survive. They love women of color only if they look like Kesha Ram and who wants to look like Kesha Ram? So, it's very unfortunate and that's why we need to have a study to figure out when is the state going to apologize to us? Everything I say comes to life. I'm a prophet as well. When I said that Del Posa was a disgrace that came to life and I said that Ben Bergstein was a disgrace that came to life. When I said that T.J. Donovan one day will be our governor that will also come to life. And we need to figure out what is going on with our state? What is going on with our state that people are not able to flourish? What is going on with our state where there's false crimes that are being reported by government officials that are definitely targeting African-Americans to make our state look dangerous even though we know that Vermont is one of the safest places to look like to live in. This study, this task force will figure out why we can't figure out why black people can't prosper. And we all must prosper. T.J. Donovan said during a speech at MLK that about perfect union. In the state of Vermont unfortunately we do not have a perfect union. When black people like myself are being targeted by the police officers when just because we read books just because we're smart just because we know we have the freedom of speech. We need to figure out why is that so? The Human Rights Commission is disgruntled maybe because their director is disgruntled and that's not defamation that is the truth and the truth is a defense that we all love this country because the truth is a defense. And this task force will figure out hopefully working with the Human Rights Commission to figure out what is going on in this state. My favorite question in the world is why? I love to ask. That's my favorite question, why, why, why? Why is that? Why is that we're not able to flourish? Why is it that we're not able to get mortgages? Why is it that we're not able to start businesses? Why isn't it that we're not able to own land? Why isn't it that there's no place for us to have childcare with a woman of color? Why is it that children have to suffer to get scholarships? Why is that? Why is the African community always below? Why is it that we have to always get on our knees to beg people of white people in the state for something as if they're different than us? As if they have, you know, you have two hands, you have two feet, you have two eyes, you have the same passion as us. But yeah, we always have to get on our knees and beg. Why do we have to be beggars? And, you know, this task force will answer those questions and give us recommendations. You know, we don't want to be beggars. You know, we have been taught to be beggars, unfortunately, because we have been given, again, cramps. This task force will give recommendations to our state, our government officials, our governor to figure out how can we teach people in our state how to properly feed themselves so these sheets that we all are controlling can one day become their own shepherds and their own shepherdess and lead themselves to water and not only lead themselves to water lay in their own green pastures and be at peace. We can't, you know, again, it gives me no joy to say that this state is racist. It gives me no joy to say that racism is all over our police department. It gives me no joy to say that it's all over the University of Vermont Medical Center. But the truth can never be improved. It is what it is. And unfortunately, we need to figure out how to take it out the route. We need to figure out why is it so? Why is that, you know, that we're not able to flourish? These recommendations will be, these recommendations will include people who are intelligent, who are passionate, who are able to look you in the eyes with integrity and say, this is what needs to be fixed. And, you know, it gives the opportunity for our governor as well to not only be the first person to start the task force, but to be an individual who says, I care about black people. I'm removing slavery from our constitution. And I'm also creating this task force. We have supported their issues for a long time. And, you know, I don't think it's anything wrong in 2022 for saying, hey, let's pause and have you think about our issues. Let's have you think about why we are not financially well. Let's have you think about why we're not mentally well. Let's not, let's start thinking about why we're not, you know, healthy. Why is it our time for our community to ask these questions we've already thought for their issues. Now it's time for us to fight for our own issues. It's unfortunate that we're here, but we're here. And we can be 3,000 years back, or we can move forward and look back and say, you know, we did a great thing and it is well with our souls. So again, I am here to support H387 for the task force to study and develop reparation proposals. It doesn't always mean money. Reparations can mean so many things and we need that task force. We need those people who will go into that room, discuss it, use their intelligence, use their passion and discuss and figure out what can we do. It's unfortunate, but you have to be a black woman to know how painful it is to grow up in a state that talks about loving each other, talks about freedom and unity when there is not. And if you are a black woman, they like you as a black one if you're, you know, look like castoram, have the hair like castoram, but if you're black, if you're strong, if you have a mind, if you say, no, I'm gonna be better than what you guys, the breadcrumbs I've been fed, they tend to discredit you. They tend to look at you like you're nothing. And, you know, as a student at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, you know, we talk a lot about leadership and real leaders are always ahead of everybody and they're waiting for others to catch up. Vermont has an opportunity to be ahead of everybody in this country and then they're gonna catch up to us. And we will set that example and we will be the state where people flourish to instead of people not wanting to come through. We will be the state that has the high real estate because everybody wants to come because they'll realize that our policies, our legal policies are truly based off freedom and they'll look at our flagless as freedom and unity and they'll actually believe it. So here's for people who are advanced. Here's for people who are visionaries. Brian Cheena is a visionary. Everybody else that I were part of this bill is a visionary. And, you know, this task force must be created because there is pain and suffering. There is emotional distress and our government officials have an ability and an opportunity to change that. Thank you. Thank you, Karen. It's Karen. I'm sorry, I forgot to correct her. I forgot to correct her in the beginning. It's Karen, the one and only. Karen. Karen. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Very welcome. Next on our witness list is Zoe Hart from the First Universalist Society and Vermont Interfaith Action and the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance, Billy. Welcome, Zoe. Thank you. And while we're correcting names, it's Zoe. The E is silent. Thank you. My name is Zoe Hart. I live in Shelburne, Vermont. And as you said, I'm a member of the First Unitarian Universalist Society of Burlington of Vermont Interfaith Action and the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance. My active participation in all of those organizations calls me to testify today in support of H387, an act relating to establishing the task force to study and develop preparation proposals for the institution of chattel slavery. Thank you for making time to hear this testimony today. The National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America defines reparations as, and I quote, a process of repairing, healing and restoring of people injured because of their group identity and in violation of their fundamental human rights by governments, corporations, institutions and families. Those groups that have been injured have the right to obtain from the government, corporation, institution or family responsible for the injuries that which they need to repair and heal themselves. In addition to being a demand for justice, it is a principle of international human rights law. Now, there may be some that believe that Vermont, a foreign northern state did not participate in slavery and is therefore not responsible for any injuries done to enslaved people in their descendants. This is not entirely true. Stephen Jacob was an attorney, politician and judge during Vermont's years as independent republic in the early years of its statehood. He served as a justice on the Vermont Supreme Court from 1801 to 1802 and in 1783, Stephen Jacob purchased from Jonathan White of Charleston, New Hampshire, a black woman named Dina who was about 30 years old and she worked for him until 1801 when the selectmen of Windsor sued Jacob claiming that Dina was too sick to work any longer. That's just one example and admittedly there aren't a lot of examples but I myself think that the records of enslaved people in Vermont may be clouded by the very fact that Vermont did ban slavery in 1777, at least for men over 21 and women over 18. Because of that ban, Vermont slave owners may well have listed enslaved people simply as servants within their household, making the records of enslaved people much more difficult to uncover in the state. More importantly, however, even if enslavement of people was not common in Vermont history, the economy of this country was built on top of the slave trade and few businesses or families were untouched by it. The textile mills of the North demanded the cotton from the South picked by enslaved people and produced slave cloth, inexpensive forced material from which clothing for enslaved people was made and sold back to Southern landowners. There may be some who believe that because slavery happened so long ago, there's no need for or it is too late for reparations today. Slavery was abolished in 1865. But the abolishment of slavery was followed by Jim Crow laws that imprisoned black people and enslaved them through prison labor. And for another hundred years, black people were racially segregated, denied the right to vote, education and basic dignity. And in the 1930s, the federal government began redlining real estate, marking risky neighborhoods for federal mortgage loans on the basis of race. And in 1996, homes and redline neighborhoods were worth less than half that of the homes and what the government had deemed as best for mortgage lending. And that disparity has only grown greater in the last two decades. I got that from an article called Redlining by Adam Hayes. The civil rights movement of the 1950s and 16s helped end legally authorized segregation, the racial bias and oppression did not end there. The war on drugs has disproportionately targeted and imprisoned people of color. Traffic stop data in Vermont shows that black drivers were more likely to be stopped, searched or arrested than white Vermonters in 2019, even though searches of black drivers had a lower hit rate for finding contraband. There's not time today to list all of the ways that black people continue to be injured by unjust systems in our country and in our state. Reparations, we're not just talking about reparations for slavery, we're talking about reparations for 400 years of history up to the present day, an unbroken chain of history in which oppression of black people was never truly abolished, but simply changed from one form to another. Some people will still say that I'm not responsible for what's happened to black people or people of color. I haven't oppressed anyone. And here I would like to quote John A. Powell, professor of law and professor of African American studies, ethnic studies at the University of California, Berkeley Law School of Law. John A. Powell says, the thing that's really slick about whiteness, if you will, is that most of the benefits can be obtained without ever doing anything personally. There are a whole set of assumptions that flow from being white, just like there are a whole set of benefits that flow from being male. You know, being a man doesn't mean that you have to have antipathy toward women, but if society is patriarchal, which a lot of people say it is, it means that the way resources are distributed in society benefits men. In that sense, men are not innocent, even though they may not personally have antipathy toward women. In the same way, in that sense, whites are not innocent. They're given the spoils of a racist system, even if they're not personally racist. End quote. So while I hope that I have not personally oppressed a black person, indigenous person or a person of color, I recognize that I have benefited from their oppression and it is my responsibility to help put that right any way that I can. Last year, this legislature passed joint resolution R113, resolving in part to commit to the sustained and deep work of eradicating systemic racism throughout the state, actively fighting racist practices and participating in the creation of more just and equitable systems. That is important essential work and I sincerely hope that you follow through on those good words, but it's not enough to say, we'll do better from this point forward. We must do better and we must do our best to repair the decades, the generations of harm that has already been done. Do I know what that will look like? No, I do not, but that does not stop me from wanting to begin that conversation and asking how can we make this right? How can we begin? And that's what H387 calls for, the task force to study and develop reparations proposals, the task force to begin the conversation, asking what can we do to make this right? I ask you to please move H387 out of committee, pass it in the house, move it to the Senate and onto the governor's desk. Let's begin the conversation. Thank you for your time today. Thank you for your service to our state. Thank you. So next up on our witness list, we have Isaac and I'm sorry if I put your name as well, Isaac. Isaac Awusu. Did it, got my name right. You go one for five, but here we go. Thank you guys for having me. My name is Isaac Awusu. I'm the director of community engagement and support for the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance. And I'm here in support of H387. I know the country usually asks why reparations, but the real question should be, does slavery exist, does systemic racism exist? Does generational trauma exist? Do disparities exist in all social determinants of life of black and brown? And what is the solution? How do we begin moving towards the solution? Sorry, or do we ignore the generational curse that slavery has started? So there has been talks on a national level. I mean, we all know HR 40, which would establish a federal commission to study the legacy of slavery in the United States. I mean, this took 400 years just to begin a study. We are extremely late and Vermont can do its part in the talk of reparations starting this task force that H387 is asking for. And typically when you hear reparations, you think money, but there's different forms of reparations just as Karen's stated. There are scholarships, waiving of fees, systemic initiatives to offset injustices, land-based compensation, and numerous other ways to dismantle or alleviate these disparities. We have to be honest. Reparations will just be a bandaid on gunshot wounds, but there has to be progression to mitigate the harms that has been done to black and brown folks in America. Here's some examples of reparations that have already started. In Everston, little Illinois, which established a reparations fund to support initiatives addressing historical wealth and opportunity gaps for black residents. And they're funding that with a $10 million, sorry, the first $10 million in revenue that the city will collect from its recreational marijuana cells. California has also started its own form of HR40 commission, sorry, HR40-style commission. And that's the study and recommend reparations for black California. And there's numerous other cities and states that have started this. Providence, Rhode Island, we're all familiar with Asheville, North Carolina, Amherst, Massachusetts, in various other communities. So I wanna state this clear, this is not truth and reconciliation. This is about adjusting the crimes against humanity of slavery within intentional and singular focus. We all know the truth. And reconciliation is the restoration of family relations. There has been nothing family about slavery. Reparations is the making of men's wrongs, one has done by paying money to, paying money or otherwise helping those who have been wrong. Clearly, H387 is more appropriate in keeping a commitment. Zohar just spoke of the commitment to dismantle systemic racism. Thank you all. Thank you, Isaac. And thank you so, thank you, Corrine, Arnold and Lydia, who was left for the day for sharing your thoughts and your truths. I mean, it's important for us to hear them in this forum. And I appreciate the time that you took to share them with us. If you have your remarks written down and you'd like to share them with our committee assistant, they can be posted on our website so that they can be public for people to see and for us to refer back to as we consider consideration for our legislation this year. So... Nice to say one more thing, sir. I don't even know who's speaking because I can't hear, but I can't see you, but I'm sure you can see me. I just wanna say, you know, as Nina Simone say, it is back in three months. You wanna be able to sleep when the day is done. So remember that while you guys make your decisions. That's the whole goal. Sleep when the day is done. So, and I just also wanna say, because what Zoh said at the end was so eloquent and so great and what a queen. I also agree, you know, that the mayor, this should be in the governor's desk and everything she said at the end was so amazing. I'm not a plagiarized person, but if I could copy and paste, I would because it was brilliantly said. So, but for you guys in room 442, the goal is to sleep when the day is done, okay? And also happy Black History Month. Thank you, Karen. All right. That's our testimony for this afternoon. We have a break. Committee, actually before we go off the air, as we scheduled for next week, just scheduling in, I've been in contact with an organization called the International Center for Transitional Justice and they're an organization based in New York, DC. And they work across the country on issues ranging from transitional justice as seen through Truth, Reconciliation Commissions through reparations. They're working with Maryland at this point in time or they have connections with Maryland, which is working on a Truth and Reconciliation, an anti-lynching Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And so they have offered to work with us next week. And so I'm scheduling in time for us to meet. I'm not sure, it'll probably be Wednesday and Thursday. And we're just working out the kinks of how we work, what can be public, what can be training, what can be educational. And so we'll be working on that next week. We've heard testimony now for a couple of weeks on a bunch of, on a handful of different bills that are not the same, but they're related. And so I just felt that it was appropriate to reach out and have some folks come in and really let us know from a different angle what it means to talk, what are we talking about when we're talking about Truth and Reconciliation, Truth and Accountability, reparations. Because I just pointed out, it's not always about, well, individual groups have to define what their truth is. What does reconciliation or accountability mean? And what do reparations mean? It doesn't always mean money, it could mean something else. So it's true. I have another question. Is that John Kulaki and C? Is John Kulaki, oh, hey John, how you sleeping? Hi professor and to be more professional, but anyways, hi. Hi, thank you for coming. I'm always glad to see you, professor. We go way back, me and Representative Kulaki. So that's the next week's work on H96. And we're gonna take testimony tomorrow at H96 as well. So thank you committee. We can thank you everybody who testified.