 Okay, well, good morning. It's wonderful to see all of you here. Thank you so much for joining us. So welcome to the Global Oil and Gas Dialogue. Today we have three leaders from the oil and gas industry who are gonna give an update on the state of play of the global industry. In short, we'll explore when will we reach peep oil and will peak oil be peak supply or peak demand. Next, we'll talk about what is the role of technology in increasing global oil and gas supply and how did the United States to become to be the world's largest oil and gas producer? And finally, picking up on some of the themes you heard Mark Zoback making, we'll wrap up with a conversation about the role of the oil and gas industry as we decarbonize the global energy system in response to pressing concerns about climate change and air pollution. So joining us in this conversation, we have Andy Swiger from ExxonMobil. ExxonMobil is the world's largest publicly traded oil and gas company. They have major assets around the world and they're also a major player in the unconventional oil and gas recovery in the United States and unbeknownst to many, they are also a global leader in carbon capture and sequestration technology. In addition to that, we have Dave Hager from Devon Energy, the chief executive officer there. Devon Energy is a leading independent oil and gas exploration and production company and their operations are focused onshore in the United States and Canada and they've been a leader in the unconventionals revolution that you've been hearing about. And finally, we have Philippe Sacket from Total who's the president for gas renewables and power and strategy innovation. Total is one of the world's largest oil and gas companies as well it has become a major integrated player in low carbon energies with assets in solar PV, manufacturing and sales, bioenergy and energy storage. So we have a terrific panel here for this discussion. So let's go ahead and get started. So in September of this year, global oil supply reached a staggering 100 million barrels of oil per day. So I'd like to start off with a question for Andy. What is your long-term outlook for oil demand and when will we reach peak oil and what will be some of the drivers in the changes that are to come? Sure. Thank you, Sally. And it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Great question. We, of course, publish an energy outlook every year, published the last one in February of this year, which looks at that very question along with many others underpinned by a lot of fundamental analysis that's going on for years and years. If you look at the latest forecast that we make, and it's not really a forecast, it's an outcome of all the fundamental work. We see oil demand rising slowly, rising through about 2030, then demand starting to slow significantly. So we get to a level of about 120 million barrels a day, thereabouts, from the 100 million that you said now. So up to 2030, kind of leveling out 20, 40, and so forth. That's the forecast that we have there. What I would also say, though, is that's the product of fundamental analysis but a lot of assumptions, technology, policy. We also publish an energy and carbon summary at the same time, which looks at different pathways, different thought processes behind it. And so you can find some different answers there. For instance, one of the things we said was, if you assumed that the world's light-duty fleet of vehicles was completely electrified by the year 2014, and we ran the case out there and we looked and everything else was held fairly constant and so forth, you were then spined by 2040 at that time, fully electrified, light-duty vehicles, oil demand would be about the levels that it was in 2013. So kind of 95 million barrels a day, a little bit down from where we are right now. We then go on to say, let's take a composite of two-degree cases, coming out of the Stanford Energy Forum, the publicly available cases there. If we take the mean of those cases and kind of put it into the model there and everything, what would the oil demand be then? About 78 million barrels a day, so forth by 2040. We can also construct cases where we get higher levels than our base case, continued economic growth, that sort of thing. But fundamentally, the way we look at it is, our job is to provide the world with the, a growing world with the energy it needs in an environmentally responsible manner. It's fundamentally a dual challenge. Provide the energy a growing society needs while addressing the risk of climate change. And in addressing that challenge, we see the role of technology as being absolutely key. There's a synergy between technology and policy. So if you think about plotting an axis, one side technology, one side policy, and you're trying to drive things one way, lots of different combinations there. So we need the right policy to enable the right technologies, get to the right answer. Base case, growing oil, 120 million barrels a day-ish, 2040. Okay, well thanks, you've sort of laid out a broad parameter space that's really interesting. I'd like to ask you a similar question from a European perspective with dramatic vehicle electrification and very ambitious targets for increasing generation from renewables. What is your outlook in the years to come? And in particular, thinking about emerging economies and decisions they're going to be making. Do you think that growth in emerging economies is going to offset potential declines in demand in North America and Europe? Well, actually, there is a case for that. On our side, we tend to take as reference for the evolution of the energy mix worldwide, what we call the sustainable development scenario, the two-degree scenario of IA. And when we look at this scenario, the obvious trends are significant growth of renewables, and this is why we like to develop ourselves in renewables. You see a slight growth for gas, and you see the oil remaining very significant around 2035, 2040. So what we question vis-à-vis this scenario is, first, the fact that the world is not today following this virtuous scenario because the decisions that have been taken in 2015 have not been followed by the different countries, and you know at least one where we are today. So this is driving more oil demand that is anticipated by the scenario. On another front, we think that the IA scenario is too conservative in terms of penetration of the electric vehicle. So we think that electric vehicle might and should, of course, be developed quicker. And in our own scenario, we see possibility of 20% penetration of electric vehicle on the global fleet around 140. But you have to acknowledge that, yes, there is significant needs in the emerging world, in Africa, where it's not so obvious to use extensively electric vehicle. You can think about Paris, you can think about New York, you can think about San Francisco, but in the middle of Africa, that might be a bit different. And we see potential for a very high demand growth with the number of cars doubling from one billion as it is today to two billion. And this, yes, will draw additional demand. Some of the demand will go to gas because gas is also a better option than oil in terms of emission. And this is why, for instance, we have been investing recently a shared 25% in clean energy, which is the leader in the US natural gas vehicle business. So a part will be taken by gas. But overall, the case for a reduction of oil demand is not so obvious. Okay, all right. Well, thank you for that. So we have a wide audience here. We have many students as well as we have many people who've been engaged in the energy industry for a long time. And if we think back to a decade ago, there was a real concern about peak oil supply. In other words, we were worried that we were going to be running out of oil and that there was a compelling need to think about what substitutes might be. But the reality is that today, even amidst the geopolitical uncertainties in Venezuela and the Middle East, it seems like, at least for right now, the world is really awash with oil. And who would have ever guessed that the United States, who really since the 1970s began to worry about its efficiency of its oil supply, who would have ever believed that the United States would be the leading oil and gas producer? So I'd like to start with Dave. What is this technological revolution? We've heard from Mark Soback. We heard from Arun in the unconventional oil and gas recovery. So can you explain to us what really is this revolution that's taken place? I'll sure try, Sally. And thank you guys very much for having us here today. It's a pleasure to be here to be able to talk about this a little bit. I love this question because, for a couple of reasons, one, I'm an old explorationist and that's what I always did in my whole career is look for oil and gas. And then also, I'm fortunate that I worked for the company who drilled the first horizontal weld that was hydraulically fractured. We started this whole revolution in the Barnett Shale and just north of the Dallas-Fort Worth area in the early 2000s. So let me try to explain what is so different now about the way we used to go about our business. And the old business we used to, I refer to it as the conventional business. And that was where you had to have a combination of factors come to play in a perfect marriage, I'd say, in order to have an oil and gas accumulation. And as an old explorationist, I had the reservoir, source, seal, trap timing, these things that don't mean anything to you guys, but these factors that all had to come together in a perfect combination. And if you're fortunate, you would have a nice discovery of oil and gas. And when you drilled a lot of dry holes in the process of doing this, with the hopes that the one discovery that you made would pay for the cost of all the dry holes and make a little bit of money afterwards. And so that was the conventional business that the oil and gas business has been in since really the beginning of time. What has changed is that we now have combined these two technologies of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing. So when we're drilling these old vertical wells that we've been drilling forever, we would drill through zones, maybe 20, 30 feet thick, sometimes 100 feet thick that had what we called very low porosity and permeability. And we didn't really have any technology that was good enough to get the oil out of these zones in any commercial quantity. So we knew there was oil there, but we just kept drilling. It says not enough porosity permeability to do anything with, we're going for the mother load that's down there deeper. So what has changed is first off, now we can drill into those zones and rather in a vertical well, where you're drilling say 20 or 30 feet of vertical thickness of that, you're now going down and turning the well horizontal and staying in that same zone for 5,000 to 10,000 feet. And so now you're exposing yourself to 5 to 10,000 feet of this low porosity permeability rock rather than the 20 or 30 feet that you would in the vertical sets. So that's nice, you're exposed to all this but how do you get it out? Well, that's where the hydraulic fracturing comes in. And so not only do we turn the well horizontal and by the way, we can do this to about a 10 foot vertical tolerance. So just think about we can drill two miles out across the Stanford campus, stay within a 10 foot vertical tolerance with our well and then we hydraulic or fracture with a combination primarily of sand and water and literally just crack the rock to some degree to create their porosity and permeability. And so that's what it's all about. And what does that mean? So all these in all these different areas in the different basins that Martin showed the different areas of the United States that we've drilled all these wells historically, we know there's hydrocarbons there but there's not enough to do anything with we're now going back and said, what if we put horizontal wells in those and hydraulically fracture those? Can we make that economic? So we know the resources there and the good news is there are a lot of those zones with this new technology is working. So that's, okay, so there's a technical explanation but what does it mean for us? Well, I think you've heard it is really helped. It is a revolutionary I feel in the United States for what is provided to our economy. It's important from a self defense standpoint, a national defense standpoint rather, it's important also to lower the cost of manufacturing anything from iPhones to medical devices. It is lower the energy input cost for the United States which has really helped us significantly in a global competitiveness. So I'm proud, I work every day with the guys that started the whole thing. What they'll say is they're pretty sure it wouldn't work. Well, it did. And so it's great to be part of that revolution. Okay, terrific. I'm gonna ask you a follow up. So you talked about conventional reservoirs where you wanted to sort of hit the mother load of, you know, and that was hard. And in reality, if we look at all those old reservoirs, you know, anywhere from say 70% to 50% of the oil is still underground in those reservoirs. How important is this unconventional technology in sort of rethinking about the value of those older oil and gas assets? And so it is important because some of these, the zones that we're now taking advantage of some of these are zones that never were drilled for vertical wells or produced from vertical wells because they were simply not economic. And so we're significantly separated in some cases from these old historic vertical producing zones. In some cases we're seeing that, okay, there were vertical wells produced at very low rates, maybe 10 barrels a day. If we put a horizontal in there, go to about 10,000 but later we can produce this same zone at 2,000 barrels a day. So it's really not damaging the resource that was there at all before. It is just providing incremental opportunities to have much higher recovery from both new zones as well potentially in zones that were just produced before but at much, much lower rates. Okay, well, terrific for explaining that to us. Andy, I'd like to switch to the topic of natural gas. You heard from Arun and Mark Zobac that from our perspective, there are many environmental benefits of switching from coal to natural gas. In particular, it has lower CO2 emissions and it also has lower traditional air pollution if you use it for example for power generation. But to take advantage of this, we're gonna really need a global gas market and we're going to need to move gas around. We're gonna need widespread, liquefied natural gas terminals, imports and exports. So what are really the prospects for developing the opportunity to seriously making natural gas an alternative to coal-based power generation around the world? Well, I think we're very well along the way towards the interconnected world that you postulate in the question there. You think about LNG as being the connector and the provider of gas to gas resource, poor areas, well along the way there. You now have in the world something like, in rough terms, about 20 countries that are exporters of LNG. So you have a lot of sources, some of them quite large, some of them more modest in size but all exporting. And you have over 40 countries now that are importing LNG. If you go back to the year 2000, the number was like 10 and 20, you know, 20 and 40 and so forth and the scale, the industry has grown hugely. It's been enabled by a lot of technology in terms of the liquefaction of LNG at a much larger scale, the transport of LNG at a much larger scale, we were very involved in that. And the development of much cheaper and mobile terminals to receive and regassify the LNG, floating regas and storage units that can be moved into a new market, fairly easily connected up to a grid which allows for further development of the grid and port of the LNG. So we've got that kind of connectivity and the opportunity to displace coal, other fuels in the world is there. Cost competitiveness is the issue. When we touched upon in previous speakers' talks about the amount of coal that's being burned in the developing world and the likely outlook for more of that. And it's because it is cheap, indigenous, it employs a lot of people. There are a lot of barriers towards displacing that. So it's gonna take more competitiveness of gas, policy work on behalf of the countries there, but all the tools are in place. You just need the economic incentive, the business case to continue moving it. It is happening now. Can it be accelerated with policy, with more technology? Yes, but very promising. I mean, you look at the difference that's made just in this country. You think about with the advance of the unconventional gas, which is now more than two thirds of the US gas supply. There's people pioneered that and so forth. What this country has done in terms of gasification, particularly of the power supply, has allowed us to return the CO2 output levels in this country that are back in the mid-1990s range. And you think about the mid-1990s, the GDP was 65%, I mean, we're 65% greater GDP now, we had 60 million fewer people back in 1995 and we're at those levels and actually tracking backwards probably towards the early 1990s and everything. So what you talked about, the benefits of gasification on the CO2 footprint are huge and they can be extended, the tools are there, more technology, more policy, more business case incentive, particularly in the developing world where the challenge really lies to get that gas in there. It's not a supply issue, it's not an infrastructure issue, it's a business case issue. Yeah, one of the interesting, so we had our annual meeting of the Natural Gas Initiative last week or the week before. And one of the very interesting things that they brought up that is the combination of natural gas plus renewables integrated together to provide reliable 24-7 power, that if you look at the cost competitive of that compared to coal, perhaps the equation will change. So if we keep thinking of things as isolated individual fuel sources, perhaps the economics will continue to look unattractive. But if we can really think about these integrated systems, maybe we can help change that narrative as well. And the integration between renewables and gas is so much better than other things because of the ability to spin the gas up and grid stability is such a big issue going forward in time. I talked about our base energy outlook for the 120 million barrels a day of oil. But at that point in time, you've got renewables penetration in the world. That's with nuclear is about 25% of the supply, but it's about 47% of the electricity supply around the world. You've got a lot of locations where grid stability, the activation of this old Tesla Edison grid. I love that terminology, previous speakers. That's a big issue and gas can play a big role there. And there's other ways to crack it, but gas is a big part of that. I just want to follow up. So when you look at projections of the technically recoverable resource for unconventional gas in China, it's enormous, Argentina, Algeria, they all have very enormous resources. So do you have any insights into when and if that might be developed and if it does develop? How does this change the dynamic in the global gas supply? Well, it's ongoing. I mean, we're very involved in, we have a big position in Argentina. It's moving forward. Challenge there is established in the service company infrastructure to facilitate it on scale. China, the NOCs and some IOCs are involved there. Geology is a little bit tougher to crack. And there are other promising spots around the world. It's just a question of, again, this combination of accommodated policies, business case, and then the necessary technology and scale benefits to make it go. What we have here in the United States is not unique. That geology exists elsewhere in the world. It's just a question of getting those factors to line up to unlock that resource. But I think the other point I would make is, well, the unconventionals have been hugely important in unlocking oil and gas resources on the supply side. Sometimes we underplay the big advances that have been made in deep water technology. 30% of the world's oil is now produced in deep water. We've extended the range out to 10,000 feet now where we can drill and produce, probably be able to go beyond that. It's kind of, it doesn't get its place in the sun so much, but it is a hugely large resource that has also been increasing in size progressively along with the unconventionals. So supply is not gonna be the issue. And technology will always find a way to unlock more supply. It's the question is, what are the policies on the demand side? What are the technologies on the demand side? What are the business cases that come together on the demand side to get that right balance? Yeah, yeah, and a really interesting paradigm shift that we're now talking about peak demand as compared to peak supply. So I'd like to move on to the last topic. And I think Mark Zobac set this up very nicely is what is the role of the oil and gas industry in a decarbonizing world? And Philippe, I'd like to start with you because it's very interesting that you now characterize yourself as a major energy operator. And as an example, in 2011, you acquired a majority share in Sunpower, which of course is a company with deep Stanford roots and Dick Swanson founder is here in the audience. So anyway, how do you see totales evolving role in meeting global energy needs in a deeply decarbonizing world? Well, clearly we are, we're ambition to be considered as a responsible energy major. And that means that we have simply the ambition to bring to our customers an energy, so energy, not only oil and gas, but energy. And but an energy which is reliable, which is affordable, and which is clean. And what do we mean by clean? Of course, we mean clean in terms of air pollution. And we mean also, of course, clean vis-a-vis climate challenge. So for us, what does it mean? First, it means developing ourselves even further in gas. We are one of the main company, global company in terms of gas, but we want to push further and there is a real case to reduce the auto emission by replacing coal by gas in mainly in power generation. So we push strongly in gas and everywhere where we try to develop gas markets, be it in Africa, be it in Asia, Myanmar, Vietnam, all these countries in fact do really need electricity. And so through gas, we are not really led into electricity and which is not an issue for us. We have been marketing electricity for four years. We are today with four, five million customers in electricity in Europe. So we intend to push electricity and pushing electricity. Of course, it's electricity. We want to produce part of it. And to produce part of it again in a clean way. And the clean way means gas, of course. And it means also renewables and more generally a combination of renewables of gas to cope with the intermenancy of renewables and of storage. And this is why we invested and thank you to remind us about our taking participation in a majority stake in the St. Power years ago. We came to rescue St. Power as Lafayette, rescue America some century ago at a time when St. Power had difficulty when this country was starting to decrease subsidy to solar. But now we've extended our footprint in renewables to a lot of our companies. We are also in wind. We have been working in solar for more than 40 years but wind is more recent for us but we want also to push in the wind. We want to push strongly. And even more recently, we invested in batteries with a quite 100% of Saft, which is a high-tech battery company. We have very strong market share for batteries, for the satellites, telecom, defense and all this high-tech and but we want to develop Saft now in the energy storage segment in synergy with our other companies in renewables. And globally, what we see the evolution of total and we have been publishing recently in our yearly climate report that we published in September, we have been publishing our trajectory in terms of carbon intensity of our future energy sales. And what we anticipate is to reduce by roughly 15% the carbon intensity of our energy sales from now to 2030. So roughly reducing by 1% per year and going even further in 2030, we anticipate to decrease even at a quicker pace developing carbon compensation, carbon, of course, capture and sequestration. It has been reminding that yes, we cannot imagine a neutral carbon world if we don't have a big development for CCUS and so we are already developing big projects in this field. And overall, what we end up at this horizon is with a company that will still, of course, be important in oil. And we would anticipate to have around 240, between 30 and 40% of our energy sales in oil. We will be much bigger in gas. We anticipate to have roughly between 40 and 55% of our energy sales in gas. But we'll have between 15 and 20% of what we call low carbon electricity sale, which means a mix of renewable and off gas, everything being allowed by also development of electricity storage. And this is why we tend to portrait ourselves not as an oil and gas company, not even as a gas and oil company, but as an oil, gas and low carbon electricity company. Okay, terrific. Yeah, one thing we haven't really talked about at all is cooking fuels. And if we look around the world, there are about 2.5 billion people who still use solid fuels. That could be coal, it could be biomass, wood, animal done, and cooking is done indoors. It's very smoky. It causes all kinds of health problems associated with air pollution and eyesight problems. It's really a terrible tragedy. And there are millions and millions of people who die every year and women and children have the highest exposure burden. I believe that Total's done a little bit of work in looking at LPG distribution or CNG distribution for clean cooking fuels, I think primarily in Africa. Could you just say a tiny bit about that? Oh yeah, we are today the major, the main major involved in energy distribution and all distribution in Africa. And more and more, yes, we are developing LPG as a substitute to traditional biomass, which is, as you mentioned, a catastrophe in terms of health for this population. And we are also pushing more and more on gas for massive electricity production and more and more also on solar associated to batteries for distributed generation in those countries. And this is clearly making a lot of difference. And this is already close to be very economical with very few subsidies because on this continent, you don't have, in fact, networks that are developed. So when you can install directly distributed generation, you save the cost of developing also the grid. It's at the same time, it brings a lot of benefit to those populations and it's starting to be very economical as well. Okay, all right, terrific, thank you. So Dave, I wanna switch to the topic of methane, natural gas, it's a very highly potent greenhouse gas. And if we have only about 4% of the methane leaking into the atmosphere, it offsets the benefit of that coal to gas switch, which we've been talking about. So I was wondering if you could say a little bit more about what you're doing to reduce methane emissions and how are your practices changed? Yeah, and just first off, we care a great deal about this issue. This is important to us. We wanna develop our energy in an environmentally sustainable manner and in a way that really provides the opportunity for high quality of life, not only today, but for many generations to come. And this is a fundamental question around that. Let me give you a few ideas of how we address it. But I think the most important thing or even tell you those ideas is remember, methane, that's what we want to sell. So we're aligned there. We want to capture as much of the methane as we can because that is what we actually sell. That's the natural gas. So we have all the incentive in the world to capture as much as we possibly can. But specifically what do we do? The first thing I'll say is as we move into more full scale developments in some of these plays that we talked about, we are drilling large number of wells from a single pad. And we're also having much larger facilities that actually handle the initial separation of the oil, gas, and water. And so there are larger facilities centrally located so they are much easier to monitor than if you have much smaller facilities that are distributed out over a large geographic area. That's the first big thing that we're doing. The second is that we are also using, and we're a member of an environmental initiative where we're using infrared cameras. So we're using infrared cameras looking for leaks and then gives us the ability to fix those leaks very, very quickly when we do have them. We've also voluntarily, again, because we think it's the right thing to do, replaced a lot of what we call pneumatic controllers, high bleed pneumatic controllers which vented off a larger amount of gas or replaced those with low bleed pneumatic controllers. Kind of wonky probably this crowd, but it makes a huge difference in the amount of natural gas that's emitted. And finally, I'd say we're also a participant in what I would call the internet of things where we're actually using our devices that we have out there as data sources. And that data is then transmitted back to our regional production offices where they are actually seen in real time a lot of the information that is important to see in order to minimize the methane emissions. So all of those things are really, really important. If I could, I'd add one other thing you didn't ask directly, but I think it goes right along with this is about flaring. And flaring is a, frankly, is a pretty efficient way to burn so you don't have much methane emission, but you do have CO2 emission. And frankly, it's a waste of resource at the same time. It's a waste of resource. So we minimize flaring wherever possible. And you can even argue in today's economics in certain plays, you're making essentially all your money off the oil. You're making very little money off the natural gas with depressed natural gas prices because we've found so much of it. So there's not as strong an economic incentive in some of our plays to capture and sell that natural gas. But I can tell you as a company, we have made a policy that we are not gonna produce when you have wells that produce oil and natural gas, have the ability to produce both. We are not going to start the oil production unless we have the ability to produce the natural gas at the same time and not to flare the natural gas. We just fundamentally think that's the right thing to do. And so that's the way we approach the business. Okay, terrific, that's interesting. So Andy, ExxonMobil has been involved in a number of carbon dioxide capture and storage projects. And how important do you think this technology is going to be for decarbonizing electricity and industry? And what do you see as ExxonMobil's role in helping to scale up this technology? It's, if you look at any pathway to two degrees or any aspiration there like that, it is gonna have to involve carbon capture one way or the other. Carbon capture, utilization, sequestration. And we've been involved in carbon capture and sequestration for many, many years, trying to expand the technology on that front on the existing technologies, aiming based and so forth. A lot of experience with that, working with more low pressure streams, more contaminated streams, how to get better. What we're now focusing a lot of attention on is what are the breakthrough technologies in that? How can we go beyond that? You've heard us talk publicly about the work we're doing on the molten carbonate fuel cells, which not only captures sequesterates, but also produces electricity at the same time. Number of other novel technologies being pursued using new materials to separate and capture. I'd also say that when you think about the totality of carbon capture and sequestration and the previous speaker described it really well, the policy space is important too. We have to work in that. And the final thing I would say is it probably can't all be sequestration because the scale is so big as was aptly described. I'd make a big pitch, particularly the young people, researchers and so forth, utilization. What can we do with that CO2? Can we turn it into materials? If it could be a replacement, if a carbon base replacement for steel and concrete at scale and at the appropriate cost, that would be a huge change for the better. Get out of those old energy intensive industries, novel materials to replace those in the construction industries and so forth using carbon dioxide streams of the same case. These are the kinds of things we're looking at. Again, in sort of a kind of breakthrough technology mode while continuing to expand the state of the art in our existing carbon capture operations. But fundamentally important to the future. Okay, terrific. Well, I hope all the students here took note of that. We just have a very short time, like 30 seconds, but very quickly, carbon pricing, both ExxonMobil and Total have signed on to the Climate Leadership Council, which is promoting a carbon tax. Can you say really briefly, one sentence, what motivated you to sign on and why is this approach better than some of the other ones that have been put forward? For us, it was easy. For over more than 10 years, we've been advocating. If you want to get that right and mix of policy and technology, the best thing to do is cut through the patchwork of regulations, mandates, hidden taxes, all that kind of stuff and establish a transform, uniform, predictable cost of carbon. That will motivate innovation big time. That's why we support it. Yeah, and Total? Hell, if you want really to speed up the reduction of CO2 on this planet, you really need to send an economic signal. And I don't know anything much more powerful or more efficient than the price for carbon. And this is why when we co-founded the OGCI in 2014, advocating in favor of the price for carbon was one of the key elements that united the co-founder of OGCI. Yeah, well, that's terrific. So our own Secretary Schultz has been a real champion for as long as I've known him for a tax and dividend scheme, a revenue-neutral carbon tax. So we're delighted that you've signed on. Anyway, it's time to wrap up. Please join me in thanking our fantastic speakers.