 Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's webinar when interns know more than CEOs for strategic paths in the transformation. I would now like to introduce Joseph Oman, Ph.D. MBA. He is an associate professor at the Technical University of Denmark. His research interests focus on managing large-scale systems engineering programs. He is the founder and coordinator of the Engineering Systems Risk Lab at DTU. Prior to DTU, Joseph worked at MIT and ETH Zurich, where he also obtained his Ph.D. He has won numerous awards and scholarships, including regular keynote speakers' invitations and teaching awards. I would now like to turn it over to Joseph. Thank you, Lucy, for the very kind introduction. Hello and welcome, everybody. Very excited to be here, and thanks for joining us today. I'd like to quickly acknowledge the great Brightline team who made this possible. That's Jafnika, Sergio, Emil, and Janine behind the scenes. And I'd also like to quickly acknowledge the folks that did all the hard work that I'll be presenting today. Diana, Ebenjarna, Lena, Martin, and Pelle. If you download any of the additional material that I'll be showing you at the end of this presentation, then you'll find their names there as well. So today we're going to talk about, spend sort of 20-30 minutes now, talking about some of the highlights of work that we've done with about 40 senior executives over the last year. And the question here really was how do senior executives, when they work in their strategy processes, deal with risks and uncertainties? And we'd like to think of our CEOs, CFOs, and folks in the strategy department as people that know a lot, and they certainly do. And we'd also like to think that if we only predict the world well enough, and then plan well enough, as well as stick to our plans well enough, then everything's going to turn out just fine. Now, we could have a great discussion now about how often that happens. So that's a bit the premises that we started this research with. I brought you a little quote here from a very smart, very intelligent, very influential person that I had the joy of listening to about two years ago. And of course, the audience had a bit of a chuckle here. Here was convinced it's three billion. And I just thought, I learned in school, it's five billion. And when I was putting the slides together, I was like, yeah, okay, now it's six billion. Now you can all write down what you think the right answer here is. With my six billion, I was wrong by just 1.7 billion. And it's kind of a thing that we should all know and agree on how many people there on the planet. And now just imagine how much harder this gets as we deal with strategy in the age of digital transformation where things happen just a lot faster than this. So tying back to what I said earlier, we'd like to think of us when we do strategy work as having all the best information available, putting our plan together, executing it. But what can we do for the gap that we notice in our work a lot that a good plan is necessary but not sufficient? So how do we move from this predicting planning to monitoring and reacting? And how can we reconcile this too? So we asked our senior executives one very simple question. How do you deal with uncertainty? And how do you deal with risk in your strategy work? And we started with this very simple question. Then we usually had a chat for an hour, sometimes two or three hours. And two surprises came out of that other than the results. I'm going to show you in a second. The first one was that we actually did not ask about the digital transformation of their businesses. But that is literally what practically everybody talked to us about. That is a topic that came up that was on top of their minds and the top of their thinking about the strategy work that they were facing at that time. And I still think they are. And then that because the senior people, they of course didn't just answer our questions, but also talked about other things that felt important. And rightfully so, the one additional item they brought up and added to the mix were people. And that was a very, very good thing to do. So digital transformation, you know, I was, I guess many of us on the call here have kids and some of you may have teenagers. And I've started listening to a blog or a podcast called Reply All to keep on top of development in the digital world. Because yes, I've heard about blockchain and artificial intelligence and big data. I learned about TikTok as I was preparing for this talk. Apparently, that's a big thing you do videos on there. So I don't quite understand what's different from YouTube, but people tell me it is. And then there's a whole lot of other apps, which apparently are amongst the most popular apps with teenagers today. So and that actually gave me a little bit of pause. And I was a little bit more sympathetic towards our executives that may have struggled with artificial intelligence, where I think how I can be, you know, go get a lecture at one of the technical universities, visit a seminar, and we'll we'll learn about that a bit more. But things are happening so fast, you know, so that that's what makes it interesting. And I think that's why it came up as a topic when we asked about how we deal with risk and uncertainty, because that's that's where we are right now. And YouTube has reached its goal in 2017 of serving us more than one billion hours per day of content. So everybody on this planet, now we can just have that number, watch is about eight minutes. So that is a playlist that's over 100,000 years long. So a lot of things are happening here. So lots of business opportunities, lots of innovation happening. But also one big question of, you know, how do we leverage that for business? Or how do we how are we conscious of that and what the impact may be. So here's what they told us, or I should be more precise, here's what we made out of the many, many things that they've told us. We walked away from these sort of 40 discussions. And basically, yeah, started sorting all the different practices that we've heard about into these four categories that you see here discover, experiment, transform, and excel. And that is what we'll be walking through now in the next couple of minutes. The two axes that you see there at the bottom is the degree of uncertainty. So here's the risk and uncertainty that we started asking about. And the second axis that you see is the degree of people impact. That is what the executives added as we were talking to them. So I love risk management. I love talking about uncertainty. So we could easily spend an hour on this slide. We won't. But I'd like to quickly highlight because we're going to come back to this the three major categories of uncertainty that we heard our executives talk about. So where does the uncertainty come from? Where do the risks come from? We're not talking about how they impact us. So that is on the cost side on our, let's say on the safety side on the schedule side. But where does the uncertainty originate? And those are three categories. The first, not surprisingly, is technology. So they just gave us all these examples of digital transformation. So what's going on there? What is some of the underlying technical developments? What are some of the apps and products that are out there? What can it do? How mature is it? What can it do? Two, three, five, 10 years from now. The second category was uncertainty around the market or more specifically, the market needs. What is it that our customers want? What is their willingness to pay for certain new services? How do we figure that out? And the third category sort of source of uncertainty were the internal capabilities. What kind of qualification profile do we need in our organization? What qualification profile do we have? That's not necessarily a trivial question to answer. And then of course, how do we get from one to the other? The second I mentioned, I'm only going to mention there, talk about that briefly, is the degree of people impact. So here it's basically two major things, how many people are impacted by our strategic initiative that we're discussing here. And how afraid are they? It's very practically there. They hear about us starting something new. Just how much does that scare them? And we all know that our feeling of scaredness isn't necessarily related to facts. But it also has very, very much to do with, let's say, the amount of trust that's in an organization. And so a very, very interesting conversation that we could have as well. But let's keep it at that now. So our two dimensions that we're going to walk through now, we're going to start on the discovery side of things. So this is where we talk about strategic initiatives that have the potential to scare people, and where we have a lot of uncertainty. So here is a base goal we're trying on initiatives that the executives talked about where they turned unknown unknowns, at least into known unknowns. And it's scary, because we're reading in the Economist that now white collar jobs are going to be automated away by AI. It's not just the blue collar folks, we're in production always happy to explain to people how this is creative destruction, and they're going to find a new job and it's all going to be great. But now it's about our own jobs. And that is, of course, very, very scary. And so if you run a consultancy, and then you announce, all right, we're going to investigate and invest heavily into AI and figure out what that's about, because we'd like to automate your job away. You don't say that. But that's what people think that is, of course, a scary thing to hear. Plus, there's a lot of uncertainty here that we just talked about technology, market, and capabilities. So where we see a lot of this happening right now, right now, I mentioned consultants, it's actually a talk to these people quite a bit, but in the manufacturing industry. So everything around industry, 4.0, Internet of Things, and how do we leverage that. So interesting question here is now, how do we deal with that as organizations? And we saw a couple of interesting examples here, one, and is something that we're doing very well in Denmark as an example of an industry association called Mate, Manufacturing Academy of Denmark. We bring a couple of hundred manufacturing companies together, and in Denmark that is a good chunk of them, and we just pull our resources. And we say, okay, let's find out together with all this digitalization is about, let's figure out what people are doing internationally. Let's have seminars for the executive level. Let's showcase some of the successes we've had. So we share best practices. We bring in external speakers, we just provide this food for thought. We came across a company that does this discovery very well and actually manages to sell it as a service, and that is IBM. They have their Watson Internet of Things tower in Munich, and maybe you've been there. It's an experience and I'm sure other companies do it equally well. But they say, hey, our job as a technology developer and somebody who brings us into the market is also a help other companies discover about, just learn about the opportunities that are out there and get the conversations going. So the big takeaway here, important message is that discovery is also a strategy work. And we're always joking in the team saying, well, 90% of it happens on the golf course, and that is probably true. And it's a nice way of doing it. But we've also worked with companies to set up, you know, innovation offices and staff functions that do just that. Do the road mapping, bring in the external experts and just help the company understand where the trends are going. Now, I've armed with our Brightline team into trying to make this a little bit interactive. So I'd like to know from you how you do discovery. And you now can use the question function to send your answer. So you have to send your answer as a question that is the tricky bit here. So what are some of the activities, some of the processes that you run in your companies as part of the strategy work to just discover the new trends and learn about the things that you don't know in the area of sort of technology uncertainty, market uncertainty, as well as your internal capabilities. While you do that, sort of my perspective here on the discovery work, if I look at all the things that we've seen is one of the key enablers or the key best practice is sort of staying focused on the value question, sort of ask why, why do we care about this and ask it nicely. Don't ask, you know, why should I care about blockchain? We've had a successful business for the last 80 years. I don't need this now. No, I'm saying, all right, that sounds interesting. All right, that sounds interesting. So how could that possibly impact our business? Amazon does that very nicely. You know, they start working on the press release from the day they have an idea. And the press release becomes this document that they work on where they articulate from the customer's point of view, how this new technology, this new service that they thought of can help them. I think the outside in processes are important here for the discovery work. It is surprising that these things have no, we don't know about them because they happen outside of our company and maybe also outside of our supply chain. So how can we bring that outside in view, view into the company? And I gave the example of this industry association that we're running here that is very, very successful in doing that. And, you know, last but not least, discovery is also about understanding and articulating what we do not know yet. That is the whole point. The point is then not to be scared, but to be able to work on that in a structured way. And now I'm going to see if the questioning worked. So I should, I don't see anything yet. So maybe it didn't work. Maybe let me see here. Oh, no, I see it. Yeah, trend analytics. Now, maybe you can probably also read these questions together. Yeah, that's a nice sort of structured method. So if you are in a position to run a staff function or do technology management, I think that's a great way of doing it. Aiman is sending in the play golf answer. Yeah, connections and networking that is how a lot of it happens. And I think it can also be done in a good and thoughtful way. And we also have that we sort of look at disruptions and leverage disruptions that are happening, realignment of knowledge and skills for the future. I think that's where we'll end up. But I think observing other disruptions can also be a good way for us helping us in our discovery. All right. So that worked well. Let's keep on doing that. Now, moving on to the second category here. Now we are going from discovery to experimentation. Yes. So we can call it experimenting. We can call it prototyping or piloting. I think what's interesting here is just to realize that this is also strategy work. So and we sometimes when we read about the strategy process, we feel like, okay, we design it and then we're done with the design and then we go and implement it and we just execute the plan what I've talked about earlier. But I think it's very, very important to realize that experimenting and prototyping, figuring out what works and what doesn't work and closing these gaps in knowledge is also an important part of strategy work and strategically relevant. We had a very interesting story happening here with one of the companies that we talked to in the construction sector. They were investing heavily in artificial reality, virtual reality, building information management systems, which is all the good things that you're supposed to do these days when you're in construction. So you're embracing the new technology trends. They invested in that for 10 years. So they had the technology figured out. They had the internal capabilities figured out. And after doing that for 10 years, they closed it all down. Why did they close it down? It was great solution. It worked well. Had to close it down because nobody in the market was willing to pay for it. They said, this is great. Thank you very much. We're very happy to take this for free. And then as a business, you say, I'd like to be paid for it, but the customers weren't there yet. A similar story that happened in Germany many years ago with Trump, they do sort of machine tools. They had one of the first and most powerful 3D printers. And it's only recently that that level of quality has been reached again. This was a little bit expensive, but they got it figured out again in a situation nobody bought it. Why? Not because they didn't want to, but people simply did not know how to use a 3D printer. They were no engineer had learned how to develop the models and call for the machine. Nobody understood what the things are that you could do with 3D printing that you can't do with normal manufacturing techniques. It was just sort of an expensive toy that did things that you could do some other way, just slower and in a more expensive way. So we love focusing on the technology as a critical uncertainty. And we love for a lesser degree, also on the figuring out what we can do it not to. But the point I'm making here is that as we do experiment and prototype, it's just as important to also experiment and prototype with the market acceptance of what you're doing. And we saw a couple of good examples around that. We can think about sort of a lean startup philosophy. So what's the fastest way that we can fail here? What is the hardest thing that we can work on? And that is very, very important here in the experimenting phase that we don't do the easiest thing first, but we actually try and figure out what is the hardest technology challenge. It's the hardest in terms of capabilities that we need to get on board. And was also the biggest thing that we don't know about the market. An interesting discussion we had here and that you'll probably also know from your organization says, when do we move into experimenting? Because when we start experimenting, we actually do start spending money. And yes, we can have a face model here that we don't start spending a whole lot at the beginning. And we saw a couple of good stories around that as well. So one of the rules was that you want to may have a good business story. So you want to be able to articulate your discovery phase by your customer cares about it. You want to have somebody passionate about it in your organization. And third, you want to have enough money in the bank or it's supposed to be cheap enough that when it turns into nothing, you don't go bankrupt. And ideally also don't lose your job over that. The big question here with experimenting and that also came up is how do we do that practically in our organization? Do we do that in our established organization that is very good at doing what we've always been doing? Or do we need to create a parallel organization to give folks the freedom to try out some new ideas, new processes? And there are good arguments for both. What's probably true is that most, some people are very happy in the current setup. And that is their strength and we're making good money with that. And it's not always the best idea to try and force them into sort of the new fans for experimentation. That's why we said earlier, if we need to we need to have folks that are passionate about this, and then we can, we can actually run this. So let's hear it again from you. How do you do, how do you guys organize experimentation, particularly if it's a strategically relevant topic? So how do you go about saying we're interested in this and hear the things that we don't know and here's what we're going to learn about it and organize the way that we spend money on it? While you do that, so my key takeaways here, and we've covered some of those, is the value of experimentation is that, you know, you learn to focus on the most critical uncertainties if that is technology fine, invest in that. But we've seen plenty of examples of actually the market that was the hardest. So focusing on that during the experimenting actually makes the most sense. So early fail fast fail cheap. So the lean startup mantra that can also be used here and create an organization where it's okay to fail early, fail fast and fail cheap. Road mapping is also something that we saw here where we said, okay, here's the steps that we need to take. Here's what we don't know yet. And ideally in your roadmap, include the customer somewhere. At some point, we'd like somebody to pay for this. And it's okay to also look at that willingness to pay rather early. And then most importantly, you want to limit the worst case scenario. If you're a startup, you can't just put all your eggs in one basket. And you go for it. But if you're an established company, you want to be a little bit thoughtful about how much money can we lose on this worst case. And then you said also as a filter to evaluate the options that you have moving forward. Okay, let's see. We have conceptual systems modeling and simulation. Yes, I like that very much because we like to tell people that they should do more of that. So we could add to that virtual prototyping. And if we have a model of our system and we can model the important variables, that's a great, great way to go. Though I would argue we probably cover mostly the technical side with this. All right, I'm reading through this. Yes. And here's a, I like that identifying key themes, throwing ourselves with the pilot work, making it fast and cheap enough, so that we can work step by step and failure will drive us elsewhere. I think that's a nice way of putting it now that failure is great, as long as you learn something from it. And if it helps you inform your decisions seeking partners, I like that one because that makes financial sense. It also makes a lot of content sense because they may be better at figuring some of this out than you do. Start and identify when to pull the plug early on. Yeah. Good one, also a tricky one, because they're basically two failure modes. Here we pull the plug early or we pull the plug too late. So, but that is one of the big themes here during experimentation of how do we get this pulling the plug moment just right. And I was a very dynamic one, keep it open, involve more people from our organization, but that sounds great. And I have a lot of respect for you if you can sort of manage that process. That's probably semi chaotic, but maybe it's supposed to be like that. Understanding the culture of your target audience. Yes, I like that. And if you can do that well, then you can maybe even have an inkling of what they want before they know that themselves. Okay, thank you very much for that. It's working very well here. So, next theme now we're moving over to transformation. So, now we're talking about a set of practices where we've decided, okay, this is worth the effort. You can see on the axis at the bottom, this is now relatively low uncertainty. I'm not saying it's easy to do transformation. It's hard. It's maybe the hardest out of the four here to get right. But there shouldn't be a lot of uncertainty left when you start with a company wide or market wide or sector wide or product range wide transformation process, you shouldn't all be fairly sure about the market, fairly sure about that the technology works and fairly sure that you have your ducks in a row in terms of capability to start this and where to what direction to grow the organization. Now, what became clear to us is that a lot of executives were excited when they talked about discovery and experimentation. And a lot of executives were excited when they started talking about transforming the organization, getting the people on board, creating this ecosystem that just keeps adding energy to it and then getting the motivation because people just bought in on how to do this, how to run it. What's interesting is that we had people that were excited about both people that were excited about discovery and then we had people excited about transformation, but there were very, very few people that were excited about doing both. And I would argue maybe there are a whole lot of people that are actually good at doing both kinds of activities. And this is in a way a classic argument that we're making here between exploration and exploitation. That's how the academics call it. Exploitation means you just keep doing what you're doing and you just keep doing it better and better and better and you just keep growing and growing and growing because you're making money, so keep doing that, keep making money. And exploration is put your money into new ventures, try new things out, be creative, take risks. And I was working, I was working way from this work thinking, I think these are two fundamentally different mindsets. And we observed that. So we had organizations that were really good at all the experimenting on a strategic level and they had this fantastic new idea and then can't name names, but we're like, this is really successful in your pilot market with your pilot technology with your core group that's doing this. Why don't you scale this up? And they said, yeah, we've been trying for three years to scale this, but it's really, really hard. And I understand why it was hard because it was hard for that set of people to do that because they have been really, really good at the discovery and experimentation. That is why I think also management teams change and start ups when they start growing because it just requires a different skill set. And I think that's important to acknowledge here on the strategy level that we are dealing with a very different kind of task here and neither group should dominate the strategy process, but I think it's important to make a conscious choice of who runs what kind of activity. So everything you've ever learned about change management falls into this category here. So let's do this again. Let me know how you guys handle the transformation work and we're going to have a look at your answers in a second. Here are my key takeaways and I'm not going to go through the answers that we got here. You can imagine what they were. Pick up any book on change management and people will have picked some of those elements and highlighted them as particularly important. What is important? Maybe I'll allow me to go back here. One question. We went up again on the, it's been a minute on this, on the people impact scale here. Discovery was scary because folks didn't know what was happening and maybe there's an issue, maybe not, maybe I'll be out of a job, maybe not. Experimentation, so a lot of uncertainty, but it wasn't scary because it didn't affect a whole lot of people and those that were affected by it loved it. So you just put the people together that like doing that and you have the luxury to do so because you can do it with a handful of folks. Then moving up to the transformation that is now where we reach out to the entire organization and everybody with every healthy person heads changed. I think I hate it. So this is where people get sort of they trigger their natural impulse to preserve what they have instead of risking it for some unknown future set. Plus you may actually be changing people's jobs, people maybe losing their jobs, but they may actually have very, very good reason not to like it. A good picture we found here for driving this transformation efforts was always thinking about the amount of oxygen that was the term that was used left in the organization. If there's a high workload now, maybe now is not the time to push this forward or if there was sort of a similar exercise earlier, then maybe we should wait a little. So what we have here is of the four key takeaways from me. I talked about this example. If you can't scale, then you may as well save yourself the trouble of doing the discovery and the experimentation work or say positively make sure that you can both innovate and scale and have these skills in the organization. A lot of discussion around the why the business rationale of doing these transformations because they are this transformation oriented strategy where because it's never going to be easy, so you better have a really, really good reason for starting it because people are going to question you a lot on why you're doing this. Then the third one, the people aspect, I mentioned that. So I'm trying to co-create the value proposition. So helping them understand, actually honestly asking the people what can we make this work for you and what can your new role be on this. And just let me check my time here because I haven't, I'm not going to talk about an awesome example from BMW. You can ask me about that later when we're done here about how we can combine top down, bottom up transformation work in that phase as well as a really, really intelligent and well thought out communication. Now let's see if we got some answers here. Here we are. All right. I like this, prepare people and leave space to transform the transformation itself. I think it's a very nice way of putting it. So this is, you know, co-creating this with folks. Don't make people victims of the transformation or survivors. Between us, I hope nobody from DTU sees this, but I'm also considering myself a survivor of the last transformation that went through the organization here, but creating that space of how, creating degrees of freedom so that people can honestly change things and not just this take it or leave it attitude change management. Yeah. And I think there are a lot of good books about it. So I think we should all read them again and try making that happen. Ambidextrous organization. Yeah, we talked about that earlier. There's exactly this capability of doing what you do really well, but I keep changing it at the same time. We do incremental improvements and then call them transformations. If you can get away with that, I would do that because I think that's a lot easier than doing the big, big transformation exercises. The question is there's a reason why we do it, although it's hard because sometimes it does seem to be necessary. Positive communication. Yeah. Good one. Like that. And that is, what does that mean? So again, we can spend a lot of time on that now, but I think being genuine and honest and earning people's trust or having on people's trust before you start this real, real good impact. Okay. And then we have some real questions here. I'm going to skip that because I think these were really good points. May we have a chance to come back to that later. Now, last but not least, Excel and the ones of you that pay close attention by now should have noticed the typo that I've built into these slides. Excel should be spelled with 1L. I think this is the Microsoft product that we're advertising here. So this is now the fourth class of categories of strategy work that we've seen. And we could easily call that, we could also call that operations excellence. So here is now, we're making good money, we're doing a reasonable good job. Let's do half a percent, a percent, two, three percent better here and here and here. So your standard productivity program that everybody experiences once or twice or three times per decade or more, maybe. And again, I think on the one hand, maybe not the most exciting topic of the mix here, but one that is crucially important because I think your customers will expect that productivity improvement, and if you don't do it, your competition will. And if you don't have competition right now in your market segment, you will have that if you don't pay attention to that segment here. Now, I'm going to give you my highlights here. I'm a bit faster here because I think a lot has been said about productivity improvement initiatives. I'm going to repeat that, but I think the key message here that that is the fourth category of strategic initiatives that we've seen and that for your organization, at least you need to ask the question, even if you're making a ton of money now, is that important for us? Because we've seen a lot of very, very important, very, very successful companies growing like crazy that have a lot of trouble because they haven't been doing this, not because they're losing money, but because they're struggling to deal with the complexity of the operations because they've just not been very good at housekeeping and making sure that we're actually productive at what we do. Tell me a little bit about how you handle operations excellence. What's your approach to that from a strategic point of view? And key takeaways here. I mentioned that it is also strategy work. It is not something that you leave to operations. Yes, that's where it's going to be executed, but emphasizing it or not emphasizing it, that's what's important on the strategy level. Okay, let's see if you, what do you have to say about this one? Okay, I have a long list here. I'm scrolling down. Not too much on this. I understand that but I think we're all on the same page here about the importance of operations excellence in the context of wider strategy initiatives. Now, we talked about most of what happens inside of these four categories or how we can use that as a categorization for our activities. A really, really fascinating question is how do we move through that space? I mentioned one that is going from discovery to experimentation by asking ourselves, you know, do we have a story, not a business case, but a business story, to have somebody who's excited about this, and do we have enough resources to fund this and if we lose all of those resources, can we walk away from it and still be healthy? Now, you can ask that question for all these steps. When do we start a large-scale transformation? When do we maybe stick as one of you has already pointed out in the operations excellence side of things and rely on the incremental improvements? Because that is not per se a bad choice, but it's a question of what are our rules for deciding when we're going to move from one to the other? What I've drawn here, the reverse end, that is I think what I would call the textbook way of moving through these four quadrants, what makes logically the most sense. But just because it makes logically the most sense doesn't mean that that is the way that we're going to do it in practice. And of course, we've seen that and we all have stories about transformations that were started, were halfway through, we realized, okay, we actually need to do a bit more discovery around here because we have literally no idea how to do this. And then you start the experimenting and then you start scaling it up. And that's not bad if you've planned it that way and if you have rules or at least rules of how you want to discuss how you want to move through this space. The same way I've done a lot of operations excellence type work in the past. It's also a great way of helping discovery. And that is where a lot of good ideas come from that then maybe need to be fed up and put into the experimentation cycle. And again, I believe and also what we've seen in our study that is at least strategy work, thinking about how we want to make sure that these four categories of activities, we do them all well. And that they also all connect to one another. Now, as a wrap up a few pointers to additional resources. So we produced a little booklet called the Detail Strategy Implementer. That is basically a walkthrough to what I've just said with all the workshop material you will need for thinking this through in your organization. And for the first time, you can click on that link after you've downloaded the slides that will be available for download to you. And you'll see something that looks like this sort of the three steps that we suggest you go through and you will see the two by two again and then a handful of instructions of what you can discuss into a series of three workshops to understand where what your strategy portfolio looks like because that's been we've done that a couple of times. And it's actually really interesting also for the executives that we've done this with to see do we have white spots here because usually we end up with a cluster of activities in one corner. And then you can ask the question, is that where we want to be at the answer? Maybe yes, but the answer may also be no, let's stretch this out a little bit more. So really good way of taking another and maybe new look at the landscape of strategy initiatives that you're running. Then we have a little article with the World Economic Forum. So if you want to share what we've talked about today, that's a nice write up here. Basically asking that question, how do we that came up of the work that we've done that there's a lot happening in the digital transformation. And the executives find themselves in a situation where having 50 years of experience in a business may actually be a liability and not an asset. So how can we still run a meaningful strategy process here? And I think what we just talked about is a good answer, making sure that we have a good split of activities. Then there's also a lot of good resources on the Brightline website. So if you haven't checked that out yet, please do. I think it's actually a lot of good fun content on them. One of them is a book that we wrote together with I think it's 50 called the Chief Strategy Offices Playbook. And there's also a little chapter in there about the material that we've just talked about. If you want to get an idea about some of the other things that we've done in the strategy space, we have a series of articles with the London School of Economics on their website, the links there at the bottom. I think that's five or six now. The latest work that we're doing is looking at how to deal with surprises. So basically all the things that happened during strategy planning and execution that we did not think would happen and how we can better deal with that. And it's really, really interesting and a first sneak peek of some of the findings there. All right. And then, oh, thank you very much. And we're now, we already took a few questions or comments, but we have another 10, 20 minutes here to take a few more questions. I'm just opening the window here. So if you have questions, now's the time to put them all in the question window, then now officially questions not answers. So I'm already seeing a few questions here and let me give me a, okay. So we're having a really good question here. And I wish we could make this a bit interactive to get your input as well. But what is the best way to get executives buying into a sort of a strategy or strategy process in a state owned entity? So a highly politicized organization. And I think a lot of us are thinking you think you're working a highly politicized organization. Come and have a look at my organization. But I think the key here is, and I think that's also what we're trying to make a contribution with with this work is it is really important that on the strategic level, there are rules of how we want to discuss what we're working on. And a rule can be that everybody gets to choose a pet project or that a certain person gets to choose a pet project. But we actually a very nice example for that how an organization that was working a fairly complex environment with big personalities on the board, like for the most of us, started adopting a quantitative evaluation of their strategy portfolio and was actually able to plug in strategic or strategic initiatives and take out strategic initiatives and calculate an overall expected return on investment. I admit that that required a bit of sophisticated math and also business planning. But that I think was one example how they deep politicized a lot of their discussions or at least said look, here is the financial answer to what the best set of strategic initiatives should look like. Or you know, here's three or four to choose from. We're happy to add your pet project back in here. But then, you know, this is what happens. Not sure if that answers all of the question, but that's what I can do there for now. So we let me see how do we cater to the different business process requirements during various stages of the business. So I'm going to the way I'm understanding that is that we're doing all of these in a fairly complex stakeholder landscape in our organization that it's not we can't can't necessarily decide whatever we want to decide and we don't necessarily know what what the best choices are. And I think the good examples that we've seen are the ones that found a meaningful way of integrating the expertise of the various business functions into the analysis, discovery, experimentation, transformation and business excellence process. But in a way that a sort of respect the expertise and be what also created opportunities for them to shape the outcome. And I think the second point is various stages of business. So if there is various stages of growth, I think that's really good question. We haven't studied companies that have been for five or 10 years and looked at how they do it. But we've seen companies at very, very different stages of maturity and growth. And what we felt is that fundamentally the categories of activities stay the same. So they all needed to worry about all four quadrants. But then how exactly they did it or what so let's say level of complexity and number of stakeholders are that were involved in that that of course changed. Okay, so we just got a new one. So here we get a question about regulatory aspects. And how can we make sure that we account for those? The question is regarding the transformation process. But I think it's really, really important in all four of them. In operations excellence is usually clear what we do with the regulatory requirements and regulatory input is one of the drivers. They have been regulated business, let's say the pharmaceutical industry or so that will drive some of your operations excellence activities. We've seen really, really good and really bad examples of that during the discovery and experimentation phase. I think it's just important to treat that we could argue also as a set of requirements so that we are a clear what is it that we know about our regulatory environment. And sometimes we may complain about it, but it's actually a bit of a luxury if that is very, very well defined because then we can work with it. It gets even trickier when also the regulatory environment is in flux. We have projects with companies that try to get autonomous vehicles on the road. And good luck getting a very clear guidance from your regulatory authority of how we're going to do the safety assessment of those because we don't know yet. And then it becomes a co-creation process with the regulatory authority. And I think that we, the good example that we've seen is whether actually part of the experimenting and also part then of the transformation process. And they just, they also need to accept their responsibility in influencing and shaping that. Okay. I think we had a really good session. I think we went through most of the questions here. So thank you. Thank you very much for that. I had a good time. I hope you did too. So we're going to have more events like this in the Brightline Strategy at Work series. If you liked it, come back. There'll be more speakers and more topics that we will cover. So it would be great to have you back for one of those events. Now, until then, you can download the presentation from today. You'll have all the links to the material that I have referenced for. It's all available free of charge. And you're welcome to share that with your friends and family as well. So thank you very much for today. And yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing from you if there's any comments that you have. And then until next time, thank you.