 Still talking security, the remaining abducted students of the Federal College of Forestry Mechanisation, Afaka Kaduni State, have been released. This is coming after former President Lushengon Bassinger had cautioned the federal government against paying ransom to kidnappers and bandits, saying it is capable of encouraging criminals in their evil act. It was reported that the release of the students was facilitated by Sheikh Ahmad Gumi, dialogue committee, with a collaboration of former President Lushengon Bassinger, but hold on, before we celebrate, gunmen had kidnapped and a known number of students of Abbey Estates University. The hoodlums took the students into the forest shortly after they ambushed them while drowning on a bus along Okigwe Utu Road. How can we protect our children in their places of education? Joining us to have this conversation is Oaymin Roy Ohidiyevi. He is a military veteran. Thank you very much for joining us and we also have Mr. Joseph Ever. He is a political analyst. Thank you gentlemen for being part of this conversation. Thank you. It's all right. It's a pleasure. Great. I'll start with you Ambassador Roy because you're a security person as usual. I want to understand all of the drama that has happened around this university students. Let's not forget the Greenfield University students are still in custody. Five have died already and people are rejoicing of course. Parents are relieved that their children have returned to them. Now the police and security agencies in this country were always constantly advised not to pay ransom especially when people are being kidnapped. But then even President Zalusheko Abbasonja we heard yesterday that he cautioned against paying ransoms because he thinks that this will continue to enable these criminal elements. But some parents had come out to say that they had to pay to secure the release of their children. So I'm going to ask you as a security person the lines are a little bit blurred and so it makes us really confused as to what the truth is. So what's your take on this whole Kaduna state situation? Well thank you for this opportunity. You know as a military personnel I served in Kaduna state for about nine years and I saw the peace eroded the way into violence and it was like a fairy tale to a lot of people. We were just, there was no GSM phone and once you see somebody running everybody starts running and nobody knows what's happening. They bring out their knives and they start cutting people and then we're trying to look at why does violence break out especially in Kaduna. So as time went on the people separated from the Iboz, the Yoruba, everybody separated from the houses, the Christians, the Muslims and the town became a separated catchment of presidential Iboz and if you look at Kaduna state very well you will see that it's trying to be an example of a radical government structure where it is a no old but no attempt to try government and all that again in its efforts to contain radicality, banditry, terrorism it makes the mistake, it always makes the mistake of aligning violence and criminality into religious catchments, tribal catchments or political. So once you begin to have this as a direction, it tends to mislead the security structures, it tends to show a negative body language, misdirecting particular activities that's supposed to mitigate and curb insecurity. So I think that the Kaduna government itself, the body language is showing does not show that it needs any help from anybody. So the governor just comes out and makes an overriding statement not remembering statements they have made in time path because in former regimes this same governor has said that people should negotiate for the Chibos girls and now in your own tenure you said you are not negotiating, immediately bandit are taking people, kidnappers are taking people if you take the stand not to negotiate, you must be sure that you are putting a machinery to remove those victims alive, you must put in such machinery so your statement may not come out bluntly to say we are not negotiating, you may be negotiating and buying time to remove the people. So I think that it was not a professional approach and it's going to encourage more of these bandit and terrorist activities. I want to understand something before I go to Mr. Joseph, I also want to understand something, you're telling me or you're insinuating that the hands of the military or security apparatuses in that state are tied because there have been colorations of religion and ethnicity from the governments which is impeding you security agents handling this situation as it should be, is this what you're telling me? The military security agency is a machinery of governments, they are created, they are funded, they are monitored, they are supervised by enabling law and one of the active points to initiate intervention by any agency is approval from the executive. So if we are running a federal system, the IG, the Chief of Army, Chief of Defense staff, they all report to the presidency. So you cannot expect the Army, the police or whoever to begin to take actions. So if they take actions and it is not a legitimate action, then they must be called to order by the existing government because they report to the government. So if you need the military to come into play, if you need the police to come into play, then you must expect that the executive in power must give an order and one that has not been done, they can make an move. I'm going to come back to you because you're raising more questions in my mind. But let me come to Mr. Joseph. Mr. Joseph, I want to literally pinch your human side. As a parent, like I started, there have been cases where security agents, former president of Barcelona, so many people have said, do not pay ransoms to get anybody out from these bandits because one way or the other, you're financing terrorism whether you like it or not. But as a parent, you know that you can find that money because nobody has that amount of money sitting in their houses. But then the security agencies and the governor has said he's not negotiating. Five of these students from Greenfield have already been killed. What would you do if you are in that situation? Well, thank you. If you ask any parents, if you ask any father or mother, what will you do if you choose this situation? It's hopelessness. In fact, bitterness. That's why, why am I from this country that has nothing to say? In fact, the things that the people in government even say will provoke you. Why did I belong to a country that, in fact, our founding fathers as I establish structures that we should be proud of, any parents? And look, we should also feel that what is happening to those children is happening to us, we should feel the pain of the parents. Whether we did not have, we are not the biological children of these kidnapped students, we should be consigned. We should feel the pain. And that is why the agony of it all is that our political leaders are just talking. And the way they talk, you can need to wonder whether they also have children. But they have children. But the governor of Kaduna State had clearly stated that even if his son were to be taken or abducted by these bandits, that he would not pay a dime. He would rather pray for the soul of his son. So they do have children. The Kaduna State governor is not a visitor to Nigerians of today. We know him right from the time of Abbas's injury today. Their politicians, they're enjoying, they talk anyhow, they talk from the two sides of their mouths. The Kaduna State governor did not fall from the sky to become Kaduna State governor. We know him. These people talk carelessly. Now, for example, let me tell you why there is no political will. And that is why the bandits are all celebrating and more people are recruited. Look at the kidnapping that took place in I think Adama or Tanapa State, where some soldiers were involved suspects. You are a journalist. Do you see the trial going on? The soldiers were involved, even the killing of policemen who are anti-kinderbars. There is an anti-kinderbars called Uchiti Police Force. These guys left Lagos to Adama area to arrest suspected kidnappers. And soldiers who are suspected, who are seen arrested, who are seen on videos attacking these policemen, government officials to government officials, things that cannot happen in Ghana, things that cannot happen in even Togo, yeah, doing the security men from Togo to command that let us go. That itself is a shame that soldiers that were involved in this obstructing the policemen doing their work today, we don't see the trial. Is the President of Nigeria worried not aware of that incident? That there is no trial. That alone has exposed which country want to help us. Some people are saying that we should beg the international community, or maybe the last speaker was also talking about the government need help. If they are seeing this in life, that Nigeria's security agents, we block another security agent from doing work for the society and nothing, no body sanctioned those soldiers that did that. For the past one year now, we are not seeing the trial. The Chief of Army Staff, no journalists will have the Chief of Army Staff. It can only happen in Nigeria where people have no value for souls, for human being. So it's unfortunate that our children are scoffing in the hands of bandits. Well, let me ask another question that I want to quickly ask Mr. Everett a question, because there are people who have said that if, just like Ambassador Roy has said, if the government puts its foot down and declares war on all of these, you know, notorious entities, then of course you would show that they mean business. Should we declare a national, or have a national no ransom law of sorts so that, you know, the government has something on ground? So, for example, I mean, we have one in Italy. There's, you know, I think my guest yesterday talks about Russia. Once a person's family member is kidnapped, the bank accounts of those people are frozen, so monies cannot exchange hands. But is there a political will to deal with that? I mean, we can barely get to deal with what we are faced with right now, even as our doorsteps. But can we also galvanize the political will to get this done if we must deal with this issue of banditry and kidnappings and terrorism that is, you know, spreading like wildfire across the country? Mr. Everett? Now, to God be the glory, we have a link mark between some of these bandits and the students. We have some, in those days, a fairness to the former military president and civilian president of Asingor. When there was this Boko Haram tension, he went to the, he went to Madaguru area to talk to some of Boko Haram people and all that is all about. And even recently, we have another Islamic leader who said that he went and saw the bandit. So I think there is a way out. What do they want? What do they want? And how do we put this in process? If the government officials are going to use the new people who have linked to these people and follow up what do they want and how do we start the process? Not using billions of naira, give to their political voice to share the money, shop the money, give to people and these people will not do the work. If they are genuinely, look at the situation in those days in the Niger Delta. When there was tension in the Niger Delta, there are genuine people who wish out to those who are aggrieved and to the government. And so there was a peace deal. And this returned to the Niger Delta. In this case, these governments, present the government are not ready to use, like to me, as far as I'm concerned, the Gumi, the Sheikh Gumi that I see, it did not also fall from the sky. We know him as a credible person in this country over time before now. Can somebody attach people who are genuine? I remember in those days when we were out of time, I'm sorry, Mr. Ewa. Out of time, I'm so sorry. Okay. Quickly, in just a sentence, Ambassador Roy, I know that you were waiting to say something, but going forward, what's the way forward quickly before we wrap up? Can we have Ambassador Roy just quickly respond, because we're out of time, Mr. Ewa. Okay. Ambassador Roy. Thank you very much. I see from his pain, you know, it's everybody that assumes this, okay, we can't have enough time to express ourselves. But one thing you should know is that the government itself collapses for starters, because it wanted to manipulate the spaces. It wanted to have an upper hand. So the government collapsed the judiciary because of electoral mattresses. The manipulation. The judiciary cannot face the criminality that we have. Like the one man is talking about, you need to interrogate the case with one man before you can know the evidence against the soldiers. So we need more policemen. We need more technology. We need more proper body language from the government. We're drawing their political will from all of the things that they have been influencing negatively. We need also the agency personnel to increase their loyalty, even against all the hardcore killings that we are seeing against the agency. And we need Nigerians to believe in Nigeria and to have the honest, to work together, to have the resilience to mitigate all the criminal activities. We have to go. Thank you. Because of time, I will close then. Thank you very much. Mr. Joseph Ewa is a political analyst. Ambassador Roy O'Hidevi is a former military personnel. Thank you very much for being part of this conversation. We appreciate it. Well, we'll take a short break and when we return, I will give you my take. Stay with us. So here's my take. It's worrisome when we hear about these kidnappings and these threats, even to the sit of power. It's beginning to hit too close to home. And of course, it's no longer just that faceless or nameless person in the northeast or in the middle belts or some person who died in the Niger Delta. It's becoming more and more real because it's now close to the House of Parliament. It's now close to Aso Rock. And our leaders need to realize that this is no longer a child's play. Our leaders need to be alive to the responsibilities. How many more of us are going to die? How many more of us are going to the gallows because our leaders have kept quiet for so long? So dear Mr. President, when are you going to address us? We, the people that voted you in. We, the people that deserve to hear from you. We, the people that deserve to see that you really, truly want to keep us safe. When will you speak up? We're waiting. We're watching. How many more of us have to die before you wake up to your responsibility? I am Marianna Cohen. Thank you for watching. Have a good evening.