 From the taxonomy perspective, I mean, I'm interested basically in all of the points, but maybe the one that I would like to be more focused is on the capital markets taxonomy, specifically in the bonds. I'm interested in equities as well, but I think I have an expertise on bonds, so maybe I can contribute more there. And then on the other groups regarding the obstacles and best practices. I've seen an update on the taxonomy. I was looking at it this morning. I'll have a look to see how can I work with this program. Yeah, because I haven't used it before, so it's the first time for me. The one that I did just to do the organogram. It's very simple. I mean, if you have any questions, I can answer because I was the one who created that. Oh, great. So we wait for a few more minutes. I've started recording, so Stan, how are you doing today? I think well, just apologies I haven't contributed much to this space, but think about it. So I just put a few thoughts on to the started putting few thoughts on the use cases page. Yeah. Planning to actually work actually set some time aside to work on this today specifically after the call. So hopefully we'll have some discussion in. Yeah. And I think the main points are that when we make even the taxonomy that we try to link it with the use cases so that, you know, if we let's say that you find a use case on private equity that we will link it to the use case specific to that private equity. I'm trying to figure out how Glyphi can, you know, I know that Glyphi can have pop up notes and that's how I just thought it would be best to. So I can create online when we are when we are all on, I can try to create a pop up note on one or more of the items and then we can see how that would help us because all of this material can be found in other places, you know, stuff about bonds stuff about equities and so on. But it's more about how can we unify everything. Anyway, I think I'll wait for a minute or so before I start the meeting. Being the middle of summer. Good morning. Good morning, Bobby. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you. I suspect that today is going to be likely attended because the middle of summer and people are. And also most of the people at Hyperledger are in Japan. I don't think about it. They're having the Hyperledger. Well, a lot of the companies that are Hyperledger members were invited to that. So a lot of calls are made up of Hyperledger members. So they're all at the conference. Yeah, I mean, I don't know specifically about the members of our group, of the Capital Markets SIG. It is possible that many of them are at the members meet up in Tokyo. So should be thought right away and, you know, just do with them, with people who are here. And then think about, you know, what's going to happen next week, what's going to happen next week, next meeting, which is in two weeks. But I was talking to some people on... Anyway, let me go down the list. One, of course, is that we are... Can you hear me, by the way? Yes. One of them is that, you know, we are operating under the antitrust policy of every country. So if you do not agree with the antitrust policy, then you have to leave the meeting. Other than that, there is no requirements as far as the meeting goes. Anybody can join. Anybody can be a member of this group and contribute. So without spending more time on all this, we have a couple of administrative stuff. One is the fact that we are still looking for a vice chair. If anybody wants to volunteer, that would be a great thing. The only duties of a vice chair, as far as I understand it, is to take over when the chair is not available for a specific meeting. And also, if there's going to be an election after 90 days and if anybody else wants to stand for the chair, they're welcome to do so. I plan to run, so we'll see how that, you know, basically it will be over. Then... Hi, it's Natalia here. Sorry. I'm not sure how you want to do this, but if we want to volunteer for the role, I would just say now or send you an email. Yeah, you can volunteer and I can just note it in the proceedings and I can put your name up unless somebody else is volunteering, in which case there will be an election. But I think what is important is whoever is volunteering has to be actively involved. I mean, actively involved in the sense that at least attend a few meetings, you know, out of, let's say six or eight in the next three months, attend, you know, a majority of them. Other than that, I don't think there's any other requirement. Does anybody else want to volunteer or shall we all say Natalia is the vice chair? What do you think, guys? I can try to volunteer to pick up if there's a call need to be led. I don't know how much I can contribute outside of the calls. I'll do my best, but I can at least try to be the backup for the meetings. Yeah, I mean, I was just telling you, I mean, I don't know whether you heard me or not, but Natalia is volunteering to be the vice chair. Oh, great. Seconded. Exactly. That's that's what I think, you know, she's a new member and enthusiastic. And let's see, you know, whether we manage to keep her interest. So let's go down the list and introduce ourselves and our interests and our expertise in this field and why we are on this call and so on and so forth. As mentioned by Bobby, many people are either away at Tokyo or because of summer, you know, people are taking time off. Anyway, Bobby. Okay, I'm Bobby Miscari and I am the chairperson for the learning materials working group here at Hyperledger. So I sit in on a lot of the special interest group calls to figure out if there's any documentation needs or just to help them with information about what's happening with the other special interest groups and just here to listen in and learn. Who's on next? It is Murali. Yeah, I can go. My name is Murali. I'm a part of the Hyperledger fabric maintenance and I have a strong background in both development and architecture of blockchain in general. My interest is basically contribute from that direction, technical direction as and then we get to the where I hope we will be able to start the implementation so forth. And also, I'm currently at Street Street and have a financial interest as well. I come up with the custody and back-end processing of finance for non-detail banks and this displays right into that as far as expertise and learning goes. So my interest is from that angle as well. Thank you, Murali. Stan? Hi, I'm at CD Group, a lead chain R&D. So coming from the capital market specifically with exchange-traded derivative space, a lot of interest in various use cases and applications of the technology looking to use this as a collaborative space to store the appropriate use of the technology and where some of the tech can be brought in often with less expected areas. Natalia, can you hear me? Natalia? Yes. So I'm a capital markets professional on the debt origination side. My work is basically called the capital market team, where I originate debt from issuers around the globe. My interest in the group is just to try and to understand their business applications of blockchain specifically on the origination in debt and also knowing the best practices and other issues that as a collaborative space we can work out. We have you to implement this in my organization and also, yeah, basically how to implement the new technology into the organization. When you say origination, does that mean that you're basically involved in securitization or being a runner for the, you know? Yes. So it's for, I mean, the origination of debt instruments for corporates and also financial institutions. So basically it's just the origination front office job, but also I know about settlement mechanics and documentation and liaison with custodians and other parties. So I don't know whether you got this or not. Yeah, I don't know whether you got this or not, but Murley is working for, I don't know whether I'm allowed to say it, but he's working with State Street, which focuses on the custody aspect and settlement, I mean, the custody and the post-settlement aspects like, you know, probably the corporate actions, probably some other, you know, things related to custody. So there should be some interesting conversations there. So we should dive right into the, you know, there was a poll taken of all the hours of, you know, which is the appropriate time and more than 50% of the people have said that this particular time is good every two weeks. The only people who said otherwise are the ones from the West Coast, because it's very early for them, 6am. So there are two things. I mean, either we go with the poll as taken, or we say, okay, let's try to adjust this time to, let's say 9.30 or 10 o'clock a.m., which would be half an hour or an hour later than we are doing now. So I would like to know the opinions of people about that, or we can just stick to the 9am time, in which case I think people from the West Coast do not, you know, attend. The problem is I got this as private feedback from people not, I mean, I suggested to them to vote, because that would be the best way of expressing your opinion. And I don't think too many people voted there from West Coast, but we have about 15 or 16 votes in total, and at least 50% or more of that is about 9 o'clock, which is the majority. So we are going to end the poll next Wednesday, and I will communicate this to everybody. I'm sorry, this is boring stuff, but we have to go through this, especially when we are setting up a new segment. Now, in terms of the project that we have undertaken, I mean, we have started, you know, we have five topics. The first one is, you know, taxonomy. I've done some work in there, and I'll try to share the work that I've done, and maybe somebody like Natalia can comment on how, you know, whether we need to have a slightly, you know, whether we need to rework, especially for the bonds. The second group, I believe, is on standards, and oh, by the way, money hasn't said anything, so I probably should wait for him to introduce himself. Yeah, hello, everyone. I'm Manipa Lay from Swap Sub. Yeah, last week I did, you know, like, you know, big introduction anyway, just as a rehash. I run a company called Swap Sub. We are working with, you know, the derivative side of things, covering interest swaps, credit swaps, and credit deposit swaps. And second, we also work with digital assets and bringing in an auto-management system because of what we have done, worked with other banks on the digital auto-management system and the settlement system that brings advice and themselves, I think, to do the digital connection. So one of the interesting things that we are working currently is a custody solution, or more of a settlement solution, and bringing in more of an institutional grade, real-time, or more of what calls a hot wallet solution. But it is agnostic to the digital assets. It's also something interesting to, you know, participants to bring in and discuss more on that. We are also in discussion with the SEC about our solution, and we are trying to get them to move on because there's a lot of concerns from the regulators on digital custody. So that's a separate topic that, you know, because interest will move on, we will work with. On the data standard, we are a working group member of these test CDMs, common domain model. That model originally started with addressing digital standards for purchasing derivatives that started about a year and a half back. But now, with the introduction of equity swaps and equities and repos and security finance, the spec has grown pretty big and now covers digital securities as well. So we had, you know, started off looking at other standards like PML and 6ML. But to make it fit for the digital, the new digital world, we had to make sure that it's not only a data standard, but it's also a business process, which is lacking in most of the other standards. So that's something that I proposed in, you know, as one of the topics of discussion. If there's more interest, we're more than happy to contribute. Sounds good. Now, how should we proceed now? Should I just share my screen and show the work that we have done in the tax armies? Vipin, you're on mute. Can you hear me now? Yes. Yes, yes. I think when I go away from the Zoom, let me try to, okay, now I can go away from the Zoom. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay, great. So I'm going to share my screen. Hold on a second. I have to find my way around this app. Can you see the screen? Yes. All right. So I tried to break it out, the capital markets into basically bonds, equities, and derivatives, which is what you see here. And in bonds, I went into a little bit of detail here. So my idea was that that I would put some kind of a pop-up on each one of these that describe them and also try to see whether we can put links to standards as well as to current use cases, especially in hyperledger based BLTs in the pop-up. I haven't attempted to do that yet, but that way we collect everything in one place and we are able to easily look at each one of these types of bonds. This is a mind map setting from Gliffy, which there are some places which need fixing, but basically, Bobby, please. Yeah. Okay, so this Gliffy program, I tried to work with it before too and I find it cumbersome in that trying to link back in an ideal world, in my opinion, like for instance, the bond box, you'd be able to click that and maybe get to its own wiki page where we can store information on bonds. Is that functionality in here? That is what I'm trying to see whether we can do, meaning is there a way to make this a live taxonomy? See, I'm not sure. I'd have to play with the Gliffy thing. I found it, again, not able to do that. So I just created pages for all of our sections. So I would put a big cap on the markets and under there have the three sections and then have them all pages down on an index on the left because I don't know if Gliffy can do those pop-ups. So as far as I know, if you can do the links, direct links, but pop-ups are not really great unless they're static. So would you link to another page in the wiki? Well, I think that's the ability that Gliffy would have, but it would be a link page under the same confluence space here. So let's see what Gliffy can do in terms of the, you know, it can definitely do pop-ups. I know that, you know, because... One question here, apologies for interrupting. The purpose of the map is to have the information, basically definitions of what is a municipal bond or a class B common equity share. What is exactly the point behind this? Okay, so there are multiple pieces of information that would be available. One of them would be the definitions in a very, very short form rather than, you know, going into details. Like for example, let's say, I mean, for you this is simple because you're a professional in the bonds space, but we can start with just having the pop-ups on the equities and bonds, one which says equities, which says that it is an ownership interest and bonds, which said it's basically, you know, you're lending money to the institution, whatever they are, whether it's sovereigns, corporates, or other governments like municipal or various other things, and that you have a higher seniority in the debt process so that if the company goes belly up, your claims are at a higher level than of equities. Then of course, the advantages to owning equities versus bonds, you know, equities appreciate, if the company is doing well, the equity equities return much more because the prices rise very fast, and since bonds are either fixed or very regulated sort of yields that come out of the bonds, the prices do not fluctuate that much, but, you know, you're sure of your yield if the company is doing okay. So, you know, starting with those kind of things, then going into possibly the corporate side of things, going into possibly standards that govern these or also use cases, which would then link back to Stan's proposal to do use cases. So, in other words, create a network that is not available anywhere else. I mean, there are places where you can find all this information, but they're all scattered, and this is more of a unifying concept. So, the discussion we are having right now is whether to, you know, how we can do the, okay, so how we can do... The link of the information. Yeah, using the tools that we have, we probably shouldn't go too far into it, but Bobby has brought up a good point that, you know, gliffy is not maybe as clickable, but these are the tools that are available to us, and if anybody else has the knowledge of any other tool, I would be glad to try that. And money has also put something on chat which says that, you know, maybe the enterprise Ethereum token taxonomy, it will be useful. The point is that the, you know, we are approaching this from a, let's say, the capital markets standpoint, and where the token taxonomy stuff will get used is in pure digitization of everything and settlement, digital settlement. So, I'm going to put up that particular link that money introduced into the chat, the rocket chat, okay, if you don't object to it. So, this is, you know, right now we are just talking about methods that we are adopting to do the taxonomy, whether it'll be useful and so on and so forth. So, I would like to hear from each one of you whether it'll be useful. So, that's the first thing, and I'm going to stop sharing this. Do you have to say, Vipin, that was extensive work that was done on that and very comprehensive. So, thank you for... Well, actually it is probably not very comprehensive because of the lack of these links and probably the classification is... But that's what we're going to work on. Okay, great. So, the point is some of those things that we mentioned in terms of the classification, some of those bonds belong in multiple categories. So, it may not be just the child-parent relationship, but there may be more linkages between them. And in terms of bonds or any other product, their derivatives, any other product, it's always the actual covenants controlling them and hence the risk versus the yield that you get from them that every investor is aware of. And how is that transparency going to be maintained is one of the biggest questions in terms of discoverability of the parameters and the bits of each one of those instruments. So, if someone else has something to say about this, I would be all ears. Hey, Mr. Sten. So, I think it's great to have this taxonomy, especially if we're talking about the links to the hyperledger projects and use cases. Potentially, we can even include the links to the ongoing work, since really the financial use cases kind of taking it a little bit more general will include a lot of relevant information and work that was done. I think the taxonomy mind map is the perfect place to be this kind of a starting point to learn about not only the space, but also the work that's done in the area of implementation. In terms of the taxonomy, that is only one aspect of taxonomy, meaning it's the types of bonds. The other one I was thinking of was the lifecycle-based taxonomy, meaning, like what Natalia mentioned, she's in origination, but then, of course, she's also concerned about what happens to the instrument in terms of settlements, custody, and so on. So, that would be another taxonomy, another way of looking at taxonomy just means classification. So, these classifications can happen on different, on multidimensional levels, each one of them being separate, right? So, I kind of ran into the same issue when trying to come up with the set of structure, I guess, for the use cases. But realistically, well, at least in my experience, the starting with a product taxonomy is really the, feels like the really good start, the right starting point in my opinion. There's a new person who joined who only shows up as iPhone. I don't know who that is. It's Natalia as well. I'm on the two lines. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. So, I agree on also, on maybe this is the first step, but I think it would be great to have also the lifecycle of the origination up until the settlement of the instruments. Okay. So, because actually, because, because basically the one of the biggest, or one of the applications precisely of the technology is just to streamline the process. Yes. In fact, Moodly shared with me work by Oliver Wyman under the Euroclear, you know, undertaken under Euroclear. And in that, there is a, there is a really kind of a lifecycle based approach, which is also being on the page, on the project page that I showed, right, which is, I can share that too, you know, and you guys can see what we're talking about here. So, this is, I'm going to share that screen, right? Can you see that? Yes. So, they tried to, well, this is from 2016 by the way. So, as far as blockchain years ago, it is ancient. But I think the same problems are there everywhere. And they're talking about the securities, you know, the transactions, then the asset servicing, then the risk management. So, here, you know, if you go on this path, and then of course, the derivatives being a separate piece here. And so, that's one way of looking, another way of looking at taxonomy. It does not show the origination part. So, anyway, I'm going to start the share again, and then we can talk about whether, you know, so these are the two views I have right now of this. And possibly I'll develop my own diagram for the, for the lifecycle. So, now we can go down the list of projects. Like, before I do that, let's see whether Murali has anything to say about that lifecycle thing, because he's the one who shared that with me. Murali, are you, are you around? Yes, I am. I am still digesting the whole thing. And my interest was basically to see what, you know, if first of all, if it is relevant, like you said, right, the blockchain part of it itself is, I don't know how relevant it is, but this lifecycle seems to be pretty, you know, pretty standard thing. And I was hoping to elicit some information and comments from the group here, who are, who are much more well versed with the actual mechanics of how this thing works than I at this point. I'll make a more formal presentation of that later, but definitely I'm interested in hearing from others. Right. How representative this is, is this even close to what you would expect? Is this, you know, and how does it map to what we are trying to do? Those are the interesting things that, you know, once we, once we identify that, then we will be able to make that as a, as a kind of working lifecycle model for us within adjustments we have to make. Okay, I guess. Yeah, now we can hear you, Stan. I think you're breaking up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's a great infographic that is kind of, anyway, I agree that, of course, that technology moved on quite a bit since it was created, but the good thing that it's kind of talking about the capital markets, which have not changed, well, much in the last decade. So it's, I think it's still very relevant and it creates a really nice, I feel like amalgamation of the product focus, the lifecycle focus, and also it actually introduces directly the DLT use cases. So in a way, I think we can use it as a source of inspiration for the different taxonomies that we're coming up with because in a way what I've been trying to do for the use cases is come up with a use case taxonomy, in a way. So this particular picture kind of blends together different perspectives, different views. It doesn't go too deep, but I think it's great to use as a kind of a holistic perspective in this space. So let's go back to that document. I mean, that picture, one of the things that's missing here is obviously the origination part. It starts off with the transactions, and then it also looks at different ledgers for different types of assets. Maybe they are virtual ledgers, meaning virtually separated, but the point of it is something like a token taxonomy would sit somewhere in the cash ledger, right? I mean, money is that correct? No, no, we're actually still out. That's what we talked about, a cash ledger. You really have digital assets and somewhere as a ledger, the cash ledger is way as a whole token taxonomy. Yeah, I mean, even the collateral ledger, so to say. But the point is they are representing this as multiple ledgers. It probably isn't. It is probably more of a virtual distinction between the different types of assets that are on the ledger rather than you know, in fact, in the early days with R3, I remember being in a debate with some guys where they wanted to say, okay, there is assets and then there is cash. In my opinion, everything is, so there are only two primal fundamental sort of notions. One is the notion of identity. Two is the notion of an asset, which includes cash or digital assets or any other kind of stuff in any of these ledgers. So that's where I started from. But, you know, obviously these guys have gone and divided it into these different aspects, which I don't have trouble with except for the fact that it can confuse people. Well, in real world, you really see that as of today, we already have get Morgan issuing their own token in their own network or forum network. There are rumors about other players in their own token and also there's a company being formed in reality in the nationals by 14 other capital market institutions. That's going to central bank the back token. So you're going to see a lot of different asset networks popping up. So they are going to be multiple different types of real physical networks where this asset origin is probably even transact. So that's the reality we're going to be, we're not going to be one, you know, really form an ever person network where all of these are going to coexist. And also, you know, like the quote I'll introduce, saying more towards a digital depository, essentially mimicking any of these physical assets in their own network as logical assets. So we are going to be faced with lots of different types. So I'm talking only about capital markets. Now we start in the integrated capital markets with retail markets, even the minimal sense of stable coins, because you need some form of interaction between public stable coins at the very least with the capital market token. You're talking about a lot of capital markets. Any kind of solution as that indicates in reality are going to have a lot of different asset networks. Yeah, sure. I mean, I appreciate that there would be multiple sort of networks that have custody of those assets. So now that will segue neatly into your your project, which is about standards, because if these assets have to interoperate with each other, then you need agreement on certain standards, maybe representation standards, maybe messaging standards, maybe standards around, you know, around identity, like I was just going through the ASX chess replacement latest news, and they have done quite a bit of work on the ISO 2022. So money, what is your vision for the standards part of our project or first of all, I mean, are you willing to take it forward or what's going on there? I mean, it would be very interesting to know. Yeah, sure. I just want to see if there's a lot more interest in that obviously early days, some kind of gauge, you know, for the different interests, maybe the coming weeks to get more interest, we can get more stuff on that. But to give a broader view, there are, yes, we can talk about standards, but then there are also the reality where and there are already, you know, there's already an initiative, you know, look at the clear magic, actually coming up with them. If I stumble, as the mechanism between the various ledgers, and they have done some successful work on that, I think that will emerge as more or less as an interledger protocol, at least on the capital market side. So what kind of data standards they are going to propose is still based upon the period. So I'm not sure what kind of coming up, they're still going to open source a lot more of their work pretty soon. As for your data standard between parties, our capital market participants, so far, you know, we've only seen EDM, a common domain model, so contented, I'm not seeing anything else being proposed. There are some separate initiatives, I know that big groups are looking at this. The FDML is actually a role, you know, it's kept only for messaging purposes and used as CDM actually covered whatever a few more colors, plus the security, the handling security that's falling into the CDM standard. So this is still an evolving nature, but at least we can start documenting what's there in the marketplace and, you know, maybe we can take it offline. Yeah, sure. Because actually in this group, we have Stan, who is leading the effort on the architecture working group, the interoperability paper. And we have done some modeling there about this. And also in Hyperledger, there is Quilt, which is a ILP based protocol. So, you know, it's not clear that, you know, somebody like Clearmatics alone could propose this. And the standard, the CDM is very powerful standard. And because it has looked at things from a blockchain perspective to update their older protocol that they supported, so do you think that it will be applicable to other products than just derivatives? Yeah, already it has been extended to power repos and security finance. We are actually extending it to power specific to custody and settlement because that's where we think it's all from there, from the point of view. So we hope to, they're still not fully open sourcing as CDM, according to the master doing that, who wants to now move the contributing towards the whole CDM to settlement and custody framework. And if that's something that will cover that we could do it, you know, it may not cover the asset lifecycle yet, for example, it doesn't dwell too deep into, let's say, bond servicing or proper actions yet. But, you know, once you have custody framework and settlement framework set up, there's a matter of, you know, people contributing towards it as well. Because they also involve articles and other data and they come together to handle that. Yeah, that is the other big sort of missing piece here, because when we, when I did a proof of concept based on open ethereum for a portfolio management product, price discovery was a very important aspect of it, which means, which meant that we had to take care of at least simple corporate actions plus, like stock splits and so on, plus we had to do price discovery and the price discovery was almost daily and the quality of that Oracle was very important. And I am in touch with the CEO of Chainlink, Sergei Nazarov. I'm going to ask him to come and speak with us one of these days, because I think oracles are a very important aspect of this. Now, let's move on to the, you know, we have five minutes. I'll just ask Stan, who's on about his vision for the use case situation. Hey, so like I mentioned, just started working on it. Everybody is more than welcome to contribute. So my thought was that we can start with coming up with a taxonomy, so to speak, of the use cases. So it would be, I guess, a view on the same picture rate, the same domain from the point of view of the processes. So life cycle is, anyways, one way to look at it, but the other view is the actual processes. What are the flow, the entire flows that have to happen in the capital markets, different areas. So far, my expertise is mainly in what me is doing. So that's exchange credit, though I'm learning more and more about over the counter space. Definitely, I don't have much in the knowledge, in the banking domain, so please contribute. So I believe there are some great use cases in both the OTC and exchange credit products. And so kind of add my thoughts on those kind of high level domains so we can potentially hopefully together drill down into the more detailed use cases have to do with like some primarily from what we've seen that the both straight processes can benefit the most. In OTC space, there's a lot of thought that deal negotiation, for example, can benefit from the blockchain. So we're just starting off, right? So I'm hoping to put in some structure, some ideas and kind of a cover the space as best we can to highlight what are the areas that can benefit the most from this technology. This is Natalia here. So basically, I think we could include also use cases of the use of the blockchain on the origination side because there are already some platforms that are using this technology to originate the securities in the market. So that is the step before to the to the exchange traded. I'm not sure if I make myself clear. Yeah. So the other part there are some platforms that are used in the technology and then putting in touch investors with the issuers. And by the use of the blockchain and the smart contracts, they directly create the securities to be traded afterwards. I think it's an interesting point to do that as well. I completely agree. That sounds great. So please, I've created the page and the conference. So it would be great if we can contribute those. I have you. In this case, that's probably links to the project if those exist. Hi, it's Bobby. I know that on the beginning of August, I'm meeting with some people from Hyperledger, especially from the healthcare SIG on how to get standards for developing use cases. So we'll have like a template for you for all the use cases that you want to write up so that it'll be easy so that they're all consistent. And one more thing I wanted to mention before we run out of time is if anyone is available Friday at 10, the public sector call is having Drum and Read from the Sovereign Foundation give a presentation on identity on the blockchain. So if anybody's interested in that conversation, that's 10 o'clock on Friday in the public sector call. It's 10 o'clock, which time zone? Eastern Standard Time. Yeah. This is what I have so far. At this point, it's really all about building up the contributions from everyone. I think everyone has their expertise. I think we've got a really good group here. So we should be able to beef up this set of use cases. And it would be great to have a template. I'll be so looking forward to that. By the way, we can run over a few minutes because we are on a completely independent Zoom channel. So there's no need to cut off right away, but obviously people have their lives. Yes, I do have to leave Vipin, but thank you for hosting and I will talk to you soon. All right. Same here, Vipin. Thank you. So we'll keep collaborating on the wiki pages and also on email. I'll try to send out a brief note of our call. I will also upload the audio and the video in case you want to listen to yourself's talk. But you know, it's more for the people who did not attend the meeting. I hope the recording quality is good enough. But please, you know, if there are any closing parts, let us hear it. Otherwise, we, you know, we end the call. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, everyone. Bye-bye. Bye now.