 Now, what that said, we got another topic because record labels are using bots. They are using bots or not. Our record labels using bots. Now, so many people have said that record labels are using bots. We've talked about many people in the industry using bots. However, there was a specific instance, maybe it's been two months ago now, where Atlanta records, many artists off of Atlantic records were outed, right, for their bot usage, which I don't think that's fair, man. You know what I mean? Aren't you not supposed to out people, bro? You can't just be clean, man. But it wasn't like, it was like a look. I saw the Instagram page of this. I watched it from ground zero, half and bro. All I'm saying is, today, you can't out people. I feel like people with mid-tier music industry and we all get it. Below mid-tier and below bro, they don't respect it because they don't get it, bro. They're not playing the same game, you know what I'm saying? Look, I'll just fuck with y'all, but look. And if the artist has suffered, that's the biggest part, man. Like y'all think y'all talking, the artists don't know some of these times, but let's talk about why we're bringing up this subject. Shout out to K.I. She is a Brandman Network member. If y'all don't know about Brandman Network, well, it's where we put our marketing strategies that we use for many of the artists that we've helped break. Songs that we've helped break over the years and we put it in there for absolutely free. Go to brandmannetwork.com to get some of that information while we have it free for everybody, but completely free courses and community. Check it out. Now, K, what did she say? She said, yo, record labels are using bots to fuel artist streams. Do you guys think bots are slowly starting to become a secret mandatory tool of the mainstream music industry to ensure high streaming numbers? Yes, I think that is, but Atlantic Records denies using bots for any of its artists. Now, I think this is a complicated question in some way. Because I wouldn't be surprised if Atlantic Records was not using bots. Yeah, like some third-party marketing agency that I read or something. Right. But not even just that, because I would not be surprised if it wasn't even employee at Atlantic Records. You know what I mean? Using the bots. Because we already know how many of these record labels use us. Just for regular marketing activity. So do they have a bot farm on staff? No, I would be surprised if you could be at the record label and not know. The highest motivation is the artists themselves and their teams. Yeah. There's a lot of artists that don't know that the labels using bots or their manager got some bots used or their, not the record label, or their marketer might've even been Vanessa a little bit and did some bots. But there's also, let's be real, there's actually a lot of artists that know that bots are being used. Yeah. A thousand percent. They encourage it. They encourage it, right? They, you know, they don't get too deep into the trenches with it, but they have a conversation that, hey, what's up, can you get you? Get your man's that do what he do. That's the 100K. Right. So, and we talked about this in our bot video before. Yeah. But just to add to it, I have another, even another scenario to make it clear why bots do make sense in the mainstream. So I've talked about how you literally might have a million streams. I'll make it up a number, right? You have a million streams and unless you get two million streams in the next 30 days, you might not have access to the next hundred thousand dollars of your budget. Based on the way the record label is set up and the way they have incentives or just the way they move. Because you have to make things move at a certain period of time. There's people who are going through scenarios like that, right? I know that I was having a conversation with somebody recently who was talking about the way the radio works. All right. Okay. All in. Okay. They had paid the money that they paid to get things popping on radio. Song went pretty damn high, right? Let's just say 40s on the radio charts, the specific one they were talking about. Now they already said the difference between, let's just say 44 and 40 is a lot of money and decent amount of streams and everything. Point is they got the song popping on the radio by paying on the radio and getting that marketing visibility. But even radio today, even if it's popping and performing well on radio, says, yo, what does streaming do? So to get it to the next level and take it to the rest of the markets, you can't just have good performers on the radio. You have to be performing on the stream, on the streams as well. Otherwise it's not going to get clear because I guess it's like a quality control check or something. I don't, whereas, so it can't be completely gained musically, I mean, off of money. I don't know. But what would I do in that scenario? Oh, I would say, well, shoot, I just pay for my artist to get here and I just need to pay $30,000 because I already just paid $250,000 to get it to this point or however much I pay, I might as well spend another $30,000 so it can go to the next match and get paid. I'm gonna get sent to like 100 more stations or whatever that number looks like. So there's incentives where in the game there's gonna be plenty of people using some formation of box always because it just doesn't make business sense not to and just like what marketers do all the time is yes, we know marketing isn't guaranteed in terms of the result that it could get, but we want to control as many variables as possible to put in the best chance of success. Yeah, that's why I get it, bro. It's about social proving. Like you just said, bro, all these different entities who won't even give you a chance in some aspects because you don't, the numbers don't look a certain part. Yeah. And then I think what people need to understand, bro, people have been finessing their music since the dawn of time, but there's a new finesse every music generation. Like my mentor told me about, you know, how they would buy their own CDs at venues and they have the venue on a sign-off on it so it'll account towards Billboard, you know what I'm saying? They was doing this shit in like the 90s and 2000s, you know? There's always something, right? What's the difference between an artist doing a show and bringing out 30 other friends to fill the crowd out so the rest of the crowd thinks they're lit, right? These 30 friends are really your music fans, you know what I'm saying? But they're convincing everybody else in the venue that you are someone that's worth paying attention to. Theoretically, is that not the same thing that you're trying to do with the box, right? So I think, at least for me, that's how I've kind of like just bought it for myself and kind of made it make sense for myself. I'm only ever against box for artists who do not yet have a marketing infrastructure, right? Because I don't want the artist listening to be like, okay, shine, chorus, I'm like, I need to go run some box, no. But Don Tolver, running box around his album, it's not the same as Lil Huda Fuck, whatever, running box around his debut single that he put out to his 10-month listeners. There's no marketing infrastructure, there's not enough going on around you to where people would believe you, right? And the success of a box campaign is all about the people believe you. Yes, right? How blurry is Drake Runs Box? We believe it. It makes sense that Drake could have got, you know, two million extra views on this and that. That sounds like something that could happen, right? Versus like if, like I said, Lil Huda Fuck, whatever, you got two million views in a day. Oh, Cal, ain't no way, bro. You got 100 followers on Instagram. You got 30-month listeners on Spotify. How you get two million views on this video in a day and a half, right? So it all comes down to believability, right? And how much of that can you actually make sense? We're gonna have somebody that want to go deeper into the box conversation. And we're yourself, by the way. Oh, we are? Yeah. Did I use something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna have more. Once we get into the vibe of doing interviews and everything. But I'll say this, it's crazy. But it's one of the last conversations I had about, like, the guy was telling me about some significant people doing some shit, right? And he was telling me how much money people are making off of it, right? I'm not talking about the people who are doing it. I'm talking about the artists, because you gotta still think. If I give you a thousand dollars to give me X amount of views on YouTube, I'm still getting paid from the Titan ID. Yeah, and that point, you basically, which is- Not Titan ID, but you know what I mean. Yeah, which is like, that's the part of it that I think regular artists need to understand why the negative box conversation is up. These labels and people are not against box because they think the playing field should be fair. They're against it because of what you just said. Yo, these motherfuckers basically robbin' us, you know what I'm saying? You're going to pay this guy a thousand dollars. And because he helped you make an extra 10K from YouTube, extra 40K from Spotify, you basically robbin' these platforms, you know what I'm saying? And that's why they're against it, not because they want the playing field to be even, bro. You can get a fake artist page or something, just a page just to give ourselves some views. If I even care about the outcome or brand, let me just give you this random base so I just make the money. But you know, a lot of the companies that are on that level, they all deal with very high level clients, right? Because of course you want to keep your hush hush as possible. And when the people who are paying big are in control of why you make, doesn't even make sense to spread it across a whole bunch of different pages. But John Paul, also on the brim and neck, never comments for this poll said, no, ultimately bots can be discovered relatively easy. It's a matter of priority on the part of streaming platforms. So he's saying it's not worth doing bots or it's not going to become massive in the mainstream music industry. The problem is artists want to rely on algorithms to grow their fan bases. I understand the practicality and the appeal of that, but at this stage, the most important thing to focus on is creating better content and better music. Yes, that stage, that stage. Proving the product does still work. So what's the point of focusing on something you can't control? Now, you can't control bot. I thought you said about the algorithm, you can't. Oh, the algorithm, yes. Focusing on that and I get that. And that goes back to our conversation in that last episode, all right? Now, what that being said, I wanna switch up the flow a little bit and get into.