 You're listening to barbell logic brought to you by barbell logic online coaching for each week We take a systematic walk through strength training and the refining power of voluntary hardship Welcome back to the barbell logic podcast coming to you from gray steel strength and conditioning in Farmington Hills, Michigan That's right. It's a guest podcast. I'm your guest host Jonathan Sullivan. I'm the owner of gray steel strength and conditioning I'm joined once again by my associate coach at gray steel coach Noah Hayden and today our guest is Debbie Rotslowski for the slatest installment of the barbell prescription series on barbell logic Debbie, thanks for joining us today. It's great to be here and Noah. Hello. How are you doing today? We're going to talk about training in female masters and underappreciated an underrepresented group in that thing that we do and it turns out that Debbie is a Female so we thought she might have some things to say about it. I have that right. Don't I Debbie? Okay, so an important population, you know at gray steel, we have a YouTube channel we're up to almost You know 8,000 subscribers which makes it kind of a tiny YouTube channel but we have you know, we have a dedicated subscription base and we have a lot of fun making it and we put out what we think is some important content and We've tried to get a little bit more serious about looking at our you know our audience analysis and you know our YouTube analytics And what we've discovered is with our newsletter and our YouTube channel and some of our other media offerings That almost all of our audience is male like when we look at our YouTube demographics What do we find we find 92 to 96% viewership for any particular video is male. Yeah And that's really upsetting to us because I think and this will be a theme I think of this entire episode is that if anybody needs to train It's somebody over 50 and if anybody over 50 needs to train It's a female the female masters demographic is the demographic That needs this kind of training the most and you know What's really strange about this is is that when we look at what's happening on our social media platforms and the attention that We're getting and our viewership and seeing that it's almost overwhelmingly male Yet when we look at our gym membership, that's not what we see at all at Grace deal specifically Yeah, and I guess we can we can investigate that a little bit today I honestly don't know exactly why that is the case. I'm not sure exactly I don't know if it's word of mouth. That's probably a big part of it Yeah, and maybe Debbie can help illuminate this issue for us So Debbie, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and then we'll talk about how you ended up here Okay Well, I do I do think I can shed some light at least from my perspective on What the woman out there do and then how I got to you So my doctor did tell me that I should do some weight training So like many out there I went to a health club and I was lifting 10 pounds many many times over and over and That didn't seem to help. I had some issues with my loss of bone mineral density and I was having trouble walking stairs and Sitting down without using my hands and I tried everything. I'm athletic I so I wanted to be able to do the basics I went to an osteopath. I went to a Massage therapists specializing in sports medicine I went the route and then I Found you from my girlfriend Sherry who had this issue with her She had a hairline fracture in her hip and she was told she needed surgery and she wanted to avoid surgery but she was having trouble walking and She came here and within a short time built up strength so that she was No longer in need of surgery No longer in pain able to walk and and that was my lead in To gray steel right you came to us through sherry and her husband Noah So Now you are a woman of a certain age as a matter of fact you recently had a birthday I did I am 60 years old and stronger than ever That's right And we have the routine every now and then we post a picture of you on instagram and people come back and it's like no She's not 60 years old So that's you and so sherry recommended that you come here or at least check this gym out Had you considered strength training before that or yeah, that's a good question Oh, I thought I was strength training. I had with your little neoprene dumbbells and sets of 20 We did weight aerobics classes at the gym Right. It's it's weighted Right, it's weighted. So what did I know that's and I had a private trainer who was good but you know The kind that brings you a drink in between your sets and right was very nice But I didn't become independent and I didn't become stronger the assistant Right So when sherry approached you and told you about what we do here What was your response? Did you sort of buy in right away or were you skeptical or you know How had the culture and your own personal history and preconceptions, you know conditioned you to Be receptive for that kind of idea Sully, I guess you don't remember my first email to you But I said I want to be strong and I want to join you and I'm ready and I had no hesitation Yeah, now that you mentioned I do remember that you were you you did seem to have a Heavy buy-in from the beginning. I was very eager to join. I knew this would be you had the answers And once you did come in I do remember clearly that you took to it like a fish to water like you were excited And you were coachable and you know you're I always say that there's two kinds of people People who divide the world into two kinds of people and everybody else and then also the the two kinds of people are people who come into the gym and They are totally disconnected from their bodies. They've been so non physical for so long that you have to say, you know This is your right side. This is your left side, you know, this is how you move, right? and you basically have to Start almost from scratch and teach them how to be, you know, physically connected and have to learn again How to appreciate where parts of their body are in space and they just got no movement patterns, right? They they have no grace. They have no coordination And so the first thing you have to do before you can even get them strong is just teach them how to move again And that's a very rewarding population to work with because you're transforming them And then there's the people who come in and they move pretty well right away and they're coachable And they've got good proprioception and balance and they're generally people that are physically active in other sports or activities And so all you have to do with those people is worry about, you know Getting them strong and fine-tuning the movements and programming them properly and that's also a rewarding group to work with And you're in that you're in that latter group I mean you started moving well pretty much from day one and all we had to do is worry about getting you strong So how long ago was that? was two years ago And uh, do you remember what weights you started at? Oh, yeah, I remember day one very well Actually, tell us about it I could not squat with no weights. I said, oh this it just it just a body weight squat A body weight squat was not going to happen and sully. I remember was very comforting He said, okay, we'll have to see what we're going to do with you We might not be doing this movement. You were ready to adjust But it turned out okay. I just wasn't used to the movements and uh Yeah, you just weren't you weren't strong at the bottom But you know that corrected pretty quickly I know I found that it seems like that happens frequently in here. Oh, yeah And I found that generally is not a strength issue It's more of a confidence issue because people have never intentionally put their body in that position before usually Yeah, it maybe it's confidence. I tend to think of it more as a you know, it's a neuromuscular issue It's a movement pattern that we just don't use in the west right right We don't squat on our haunches and then stand up again You know, we have our entire modern environment is structured so that we don't have to do that We don't have to squat down on our haunches and then stand up again And so yeah, it's probably a little bit of both, but no in my case. It was not a lack of confidence It was pain when I tried the movement Literally could not stand up out of the hole But you had a really nice press from the beginning and the bench press is you know, the bench press And we had you deadlifting Pretty quickly. I can't remember if you were on kettlebells or whether we had you lifting the light bar on that first day No, I went right to the light bar. Yeah, and again, you took to it like a fish to water and you started making progress pretty rapidly and You've been pretty dedicated I mean, you know, there have been some discontinuities in your training because Debbie is a a calculus teacher And she's also kind of a jet setter and cosmopolitan. So she you know, she goes to israel frequently And she goes to florida frequently and travels a lot and she's got families spread out all over the place kind of a the rotslowski diaspora, you know, and That's right. And so she often has to not really take a layoff because When you travel these various places, you're very very Dedicated about continuing some sort of training And you know, she sends me videos from israel or florida of her, you know, maintaining her training and during the lockdown program You were just a superstar You were an absolute superstar with the covet lockdown program And I think you can attest that when you came back It made a difference that you had done The lockdown program with, you know, dumbbells and body weight and stuff like that when you came back You were really in good shape to get back to work Well, it's hard for me to compare it to what would have happened had I not kept up But I know that you got me back up to where I was pretty fast Right and you just your we were talking in the last episode about chasing singles And you put up a few prs the other day in preparation for your You're protracted absence from gray steel, which is coming up We're still broken hearted about that by the way, but but it is what it is And during her absence from gray steel debbie will transition to barbell logic as one of my clients So we're going to keep you strong But those chasing singles are fun, but they're also a great confidence boost when I know I can do us Have a single, you know, if you have to leave isn't it great? Knowing as you're heading off in the wild blue yonder that like you're stronger than ever, right? That's the way we send people off here. So you had been in a lot of gyms before you came here I had uh, did you what did you notice about this space when you first came? Well, there's no comparison I mean here we're getting a program a prescription as you call it and we're progressing every time we come in We're not just repeating the same Movements, but I think he's asking about the the environment the training environment atmosphere, I guess Oh, well, okay. So I can answer to that having Gone to a gym just yesterday to lift weights. I look forward to coming here. It's fun It's always a pleasure to be here. It's not just like. Oh, I have to go lift weights. It's um, I get to go lift weight Yeah, oh, hey, it's tuesday tomorrow is my day. It's exciting to come in It's a and and the whole not just the people I work out with but all the people who come to grace to deal somehow You have built a family. So we're all um, it's a it's a good group here. It is You're in the eight o'clock You're on blue team, but you're the one You're the one time slot on blue team that belongs to me instead of noa And it's noa and sherry The other noa noa and sherry and you and it's a reason for me to get up on On wednesday and sunday mornings because otherwise i'd just sleep in half the day And I come in and I work with you guys and it's like this amazing start to my day because the three of you Are a handful And yeah, noa usually comes in to start his coaching day at the tail end of it and yeah, I think you're gonna test it I just observe Yeah, it's a pretty it's a pretty dynamic group. But yeah, I think we have a unique environment here You know the other thing aside from the nice atmosphere here is it feels very safe I am never worried. I know you won't give me A job to do a training program to do that I cannot do and if i'm doing something wrong I know you will stop me. So I will not get injured if i'm not holding my back correctly or Whatever the case may be it feels very safe to be here and i've seen you sully stop one of us and say, okay You're not doing it today Right for some reason or another Which um, which you don't get in a in an in any other gym i've been at or yeah in any other sort of training Sorry, it's it's one of those ways in which First of all the complete system is a lifter and a coach Absolutely, that's the come. Yeah, that's the complete dynamic. So is it possible to train on your own? Absolutely But whether it's with an in-person coach or barbell logic or a training partner The complete system is the lifter who has their lifting model in their head And then the coach who has the coaching model in their head and they form a Complete feedback system that really gets the most out of this out of this model of training So you've been here for a couple years You're very consistent. Have you noticed any consequences from lifting? I mean, how have you felt since then and the real reason why i'm asking you this is because I feel like this Question comes up a lot. Have you noticed that you've bulked up after you started training in some way that you didn't want to I guess Okay, so that was never a fear of mine But I do want to say that I came here for health. I wanted to feel strong so that I could Physically manage lifting my grandkids walking up the steps Getting up from a chair. That was my goal the unexpected side benefits have been Noticed by me and by friends that my posture is better. I'm just standing up straighter My waist kind of got thinner. I feel I feel like my whole body shape changed A little bit. It actually became more feminine as opposed to bulking up or whatever People might fear. Yeah, if I might be so bold There we go. Yeah, you well you're more attractive now, right because you're more muscular You're a little bit more Curvaceous, right and you do stand straighter and you look healthy and powerful and healthy and powerful is always attractive So, yeah, I would agree with that has your weight changed at all since you started training Um about the same I do eat a lot more So it's hard during covid lockdown. I took off some weight Which I kind of liked because I wasn't in need of constant calories, which I feel when I'm weight training But I'm but I'm at a good weight for myself and I I'm Maintaining it basically. Yeah, you are a very healthy looking human being. I mean somebody, you know, somebody can take one look at you and tell That what they can't tell necessarily is that you're 60 Right, because you don't look like a modern American female 60 year old Right, you look like what a 60 year old woman is supposed to look like which is unusual so For me as a physician My idea of physical beauty is probably a little bit different from the cultures You know, I have the clearest memory a lady that we resuscitated once And I got to tell this story This lady comes in she was in her mid 80s and she came in and she was a diabetic And she had made this mistake that diabetics make some time Which she had taken her insulin and then she hadn't gotten right to her breakfast And she waited just a little bit too long and she became hypoglycemic So she comes in and she's in a coma And She actually looks like she's in pretty good shape But she's in a coma. She's flaccid and we checked her blood sugar and her blood sugar was like something ridiculous Like 15 or 20 and you know the normal supposed to be around 100 So we gave her a couple of amps at dextrose and she woke right up And I had the clearest memory of her. She's like sitting straight up in bed In this cot in the resuscitation area With this amazing posture and her husband's over there at her bedside And he's like crying because you can tell that this woman was just his life's treasure And she's sitting up and her eyes are sparkling and she's like patting his head and she's smiling And we're all standing around and looking at her. She's 80 years old So she's like wrinkled and gray and all of that But we're looking at her and we all said the same thing. My god She is so beautiful Right because you can tell she had taken care of herself. She had a little bit of muscle on her She was fairly lean. She had this posture. Her spine was straight You know and when she got out of bed, she was able to walk around She had a powerful gait at like 85 or something like that and to us as healthcare providers. We looked at that and we said She is so Magnificently beautiful like there's like an element of dignity to it. Yeah. Yeah So when I say somebody's beautiful It means I look at them with a physician's eye and say wow I see somebody who's healthy and powerful and strong vibrant and vibrant Yeah, and that's that's what we're trying to make here That's what we're trying to transform people into and I think by being healthy and strong It builds self confidence which also translates to looking good when you feel confident and walk into a room And when you're strong and fit and vibrant and confident You can live a beautiful life And do beautiful things and do beautiful things for others More useful in general and harder to break as it were So ostensibly we're talking about training for female masters today And on the one hand, you know, no, there's not a lot to say, right? So you have a male training partner in your group, right? I think you can affirm debbie that There's not a lot of differences between how I train you And how I train noah, right? I mean the same exercises The same principles the same sort of general approach to programming This is a terrible example because my name is noah and nobody knows the other noah, right the other noah So I but I can answer to the I can attest to that because when we are not with you for some reason and I Work out with my training partner here the girl and the guy no and sherry We help each other we coach each other and there's no difference at all like I can correct noah And noah can correct me and sherry and we just work out together. There's we don't think of any difference Do you think that it would be more supportive or inviting for people to have Men as training partners or women exclusively or a mixture? Well, I I I hope you know the answer to that is it absolutely makes no difference It just should be someone you get along with because the the training is the same I really like that answer Yeah, I like that answer I think it also has a lot to do with the attitude and the context of those training partners Sure, but debbie's training partners are lifelong friends and they were friends before she came here But what we find is that when people come and work at we train three people at a time at gray steel That's our that's our time slot three racks three people Right what we call semi private training pretty much one on one like while somebody's lifting The coach and the other two lifters are watching right? That's that's just our model of training here And when people come here and they get a new training partner and they work out with them over months to years You know, they've been through this like crucible of physical training together And so if you weren't friends before you're going to be friends after right where they're all equals Where they're all equals, right? No matter how much weight they lift or no matter what their particular obstacles are in training Like everybody gets the same amount of attention Everybody gets the same intensity of of training and programming and we ask the same refinement process It's the same refinement process for everybody including women So again, you know, it turns out that women are not actually a different species The training principles for female masters are pretty much the same as they are For male masters and yet There are a few wrinkles, right? There are a few Minor wrinkles for female masters And maybe we can talk a little bit about some of those So I will say this really quick. This all sounds really great Like it's a wonderful environment to lift in but so you've been known to Do some yelling from time to time From time to time and I yell too a lot at my clients when they yell as much as I I'm Definitely not but how do you feel about not only being yelled at but being coached by men specifically So part of the comfort of being here is knowing that I will be stopped immediately if something looks off That might entail a yell or a loud voice But that's just you know, if if I wasn't yelled at I would feel Neglected or even if everything looks perfect So if you're at the bottom of the hole and you have achieved a perfect position on the squat And you've got like a heavy limit single on your back You know, you're going to get yelled at to drive your hips, right? And to maintain chest up or whatever it is you're maintain your knees out that you're going to get yelled at Not because I say thank you, sully. You got that one up for me by yelling it up Right because right because the you don't let me give up the bandwidth of consciousness at the bottom of Heavy squat or a heavy press is pretty narrow and pretty limited. You can't just say hey, yeah, you know You should drive your hips now. I think there's an element of trust there too Yeah, you know what I tell people is I get louder when you need to be yelling at yourself more to drive your hips up Right and and I think that the proper trusting relationship between a lifter and a coach Is allowing your mind to be a conduit for the coach's cues to move your body I work with a lot of people that you can see it in their eyes that they have this constant mental dialogue going on You know, it's just a constant monologue of where's my body at and what am I doing and what about my taxes and how you know, yeah I gotta go grocery shopping after this and uh, is my shirt tight enough or too tight and right Is my belt on right and you have to break that Yeah, well, I I want to point out also that you don't have mirrors in here So we rely on you as our coaches to be Constantly correcting and that's very comforting that you're right there And the opposite extreme would be if i'm on the bottom of a squat and struggling to get up You could say oh take a break go sit down and relax like there's my do and that's not what we're here for right exactly What about those wrinkles for female masters? What do you observe noa? I mean, I just don't think there are fundamental differences in training female masters In fact, that's even more so the case in a masters population than it is in a younger population Because in the masters population, especially like once we get to be over 60 over 70 We're kind of hormonally equivalent a little bit. You know, yeah, absolutely So I just don't find that there are that many differences in programming For females. Yeah, and the LP tend to go to triples on some females But only when they declare it to you with their performance that they need to go to triples, right? Otherwise you keep people on fives You know, there's the raw fact that you know, it is in fact the case that as a population Women are not as strong Right men are just biologically stronger than women as a population You know that breaks down at the individual level. Debbie is stronger than a lot of guys I know you know in terms of absolute ability to produce force So I think you know that sort of message one of this particular episode is that women Can appear for strength training use the same exercises the same relative loading they can lift heavy They don't have to have A sort of different paradigm where they lift small weights for lots of reps. They can lift heavy weights For sets of five or sets of three and eventually move their way to heavy singles in their advanced programming They need the same nutrition, right? They get the same programming It's really the same And these doctors and others who prescribe a paradigmatically different sort of quote-unquote strength training regimen For women than they would for men Are doing half of the population a big disservice Speaking to what you said about having a male and a female training partner I only have a couple clients in my practice That are women that train only with other women and that just happened by coincidence But almost all of them have a mixed gender partners. Yeah And I think that it actually helps them because even though Some of the contrasts between the two of them are very striking the difference between squatting 25 pounds and the man that they train with squats 250 pounds What I've found is that it's not Intimidating like you would expect it to be They sit there and watch him and they're critiquing and judging him with their eyes the same way that I am And they think about what he's doing and they think about what they have to do next And then their timer goes off and they get up and their male training partner is Watching their movement exactly thinking about what he has to do Like we all was watching you the other day on the press, right? It's like, yeah Because I pointed it out. It's like that's what you need to do what she's doing on the press And I've I think I've pointed this out before in this series, but it's a great equalizer I think that it brings people together more than it shows off their differences. Yeah, I think that's right I think that's right before I joined The triplet that I'm in now I worked out with Walter Oh, yeah, and I worked out with Val Dr. Walter and Val. Yeah, and I'll tell you from our perspective We don't think about if it's a male or female for sure And if it's we don't look at what weight they're lifting We just know when it's time for the work set we all have to pitch in and cheer each other on Whatever it is. It doesn't matter that his might be a a lot heavier than hers Where they're everyone's going for their own personal records and I know that I Shape new lifters that come in here by telling them over and over and over again Especially men that the amount of weight that's on the bar is set by how much of a challenge their technique can handle right now Right and the weight will go up on the bar When their technique needs more of a challenge for them to maintain it I tell all of my lifters that but especially the men I have to repeat it many many times a min min As I I hate to paint with too broad of a brush because like well Debbie Debbie wants pr's Like that's her nickname. That's her nickname is pr debbie and she wants pr's and she wants to put more weight on the bar But in general men are like more irrationally greedy, right? Yeah. Yeah for them is that is a difference I think in general Allowing for individual differences between Men and women So you have to rein men in a little bit more But that doesn't mean that our female athletes aren't aggressive And I mean they want to see more weight once they figure out what's going on here and what it's doing for them They're like, hey, you know, like if I make a mistake on debbie's board And her weight doesn't go up from one week to the next like I hear all about it Am I right? I do check your math. I do my math teacher math teacher debbie So, you know, I don't think we have to belabor this the exercise selection is the same The training principles are the same. The programming is the same. The progress is the same Where there is a bit of a dichotomy I think is in the benefit and again, you know, I want to emphasize To our listeners If there is a population that is going to squeeze the most benefit Out of this form of exercise medicine, it's female masters. Nobody needs it more Nobody needs it more than a six year or seven year old female And why is that? First of all, there's the biological reasons women Like I said last night in the essay women get the short end of the stick in terms of muscle mass and bone density and loss of muscle mass and strength as they grow older And women also tend to outlive men By half a decade to a decade. So women are more likely to end up on their own And they have a greater risk because they live to be older and often live to be older alone They have a greater risk of loss of independence and a loss of function And a loss of dignity and there are other reasons as well. Why this form of training is just I think it's just really tailor made For women the benefits to women are disproportionate compared to their male counterparts and yet Here we are where you know, it's still widely I think it's breaking down But it's still widely seen as this thing that guys do, you know In particular that young guys do but that guys do And you said at the beginning Debbie, you thought you might be able to shed some light on that Like what's what's holding us back With the female population and getting them in here to train under heavy barbells. What's holding us back there? Why aren't we Why aren't we reaching that demographic? better Well, I know I I've I talk about you Sully and what I do here to anyone who will listen and they all seem interested But going from interest to actually coming in and committing to this is a large step I don't know why Men are more willing to come than women I think it's important for both Actually, and there are I guess there's the image of the macho man where men want to lift weights more than women do But it's definitely a commitment and it's a a change in lifestyle But it's a commitment and a change in lifestyle for men too. I just I feel like there's this sort of cultural current That you know, we have to swim against that we have to move against and that women have to move against And you know, maybe part of it is this whole bulking up mythology that women hear about you know, well, I don't want to get like real muscular and You know the answer to that is yeah, actually You want to get all muscular you do you really much as you can you really do But perhaps it's even more fundamental than that. I don't know. Is it that it's not ladylike? Is it that you know that there's just not enough examples out there and the cultural iconography For women to refer to or there's not enough role models, you know people like you To sort of serve as an example You know, or maybe it's that most of the podcasts and youtube channels and Social media offerings are like all men. Yeah, a couple of old guys like us saying hey, come on ladies. We're part of the problem Maybe Maybe we are or maybe um, some of the advisors out there Are telling women Or men it really isn't just women who have issues like my knees hurt my shoulder hurts They're saying well, um, you should rest and take it easy weight on it Putting weight on it will make it worse and and they're giving just bad advice Maybe some of our viewers can chime in on this too and tell us what you think about this. What you know, what is it What is it that we're doing wrong when it comes to getting This particular form of exercise medicine to the people who need it most I mean because what you've heard here is that the benefits are disproportionately large It's important for everybody, but there's a disproportionate beneficial effect for women the Programming is the same the safety is the same The environment is the same So yeah, I just don't know exactly where it is that that we're falling short on that I think it's a cultural shift that needs to happen You know, you said that it seems like a thing that men would do and men seem to be More ready to attempt something like this That was a cultural something learned when they were young as well I mean, hopefully for all the men that are listening to this Maybe you have a special lady in your life that you've unsuccessfully tried to convince to lift in the past They might want to send this specific episode their way and maybe you can open that discussion up again A sister a grandmother a mother or a spouse, which actually Brings us to another issue. I didn't know we were going to get here, but it occurs to me. So It might not be that she doesn't want to lift guys. Yeah, might be that she doesn't want to lift With you, right? So that's a problem that we see a lot lifting with your spouse I was actually going to ask Laura this question. Not always productive. Yeah. Yeah, they don't they don't lift together Oh, they don't yeah, but I think that's primarily a scheduling kind of thing, but it's pretty rare Because there's yelling involved Right, right and who wants to be yelled at by their spouse even if it is Under the bar, right? So, you know, it might be I think at the least it might be a really good idea that If this question was reapproached by any listeners don't have it in the context of Training your wife or your mother or your sister. They need to get a different coach Yeah, they need a coach So those relationships don't overlap because it's pretty difficult. It's pretty problematic for most people Yeah, it yeah, it's one thing to be yelled at by a coach. It's quite another to be yelled at by a significant other or a son Right or a brother, right? So Yeah, maybe that's part of it But most of what goes on here. I have to remind you is not about the yelling It's about the growth and the training and and the camaraderie and the very structure of the training sort of lends itself to that I mean if you think about it You have a 90 minute session when you come in here How much of that is actually spent under the bar? Well, it's a minority, right? Most of the time is spent like Standing around talking about the program talking about the movement We're just drinking coffee and like talking and catching up and you know Sharing stories and talking about the music and you know, it's it's actually a pretty cool way to train It's not like going to an aerobic class for somebody like You know pumps you up for 45 60 minutes and and then you go home It's it's a little bit more of a social occasion, isn't it? It definitely is yeah You know, we have a lot of female lifters here at the gym And I think that it's easy to attract them and keep them because of the environment of this gym but That presents a barrier For women living in other areas that don't have access to a gym like this I don't really know of any other ones. There's a couple right, but they're pretty few and far in between So you're going to travel soon And Silly's going to coach you online. Are you you're going to train at a commercial gym while you do this? Yes How is that? training by yourself in a place where you don't have training partners and Then communicating after the fact with your coach about what you're doing Well, it's not the same as coming in here But it does work It's a little bit lonely You're in the gym by yourself. Um, there are other people You know watching who might feel like stepping in and correcting you but having been trained here for two years I know I have it right and I could tell them a few things But I resist that urge, but it does work. I know i'm getting feedback and I know i'm getting I'll correct for next time. Have you ever been approached by people in the gym? Yeah, in a friendly way How have you dealt with that? Um, I tell them about Sully and Grace deal and that they should get with the program because this is the right way to do it Well, there you go And you're you're in sort of an enviable position you started out as an in-person client your movements are You know very solid you understand the movement patterns and you understand the program So it's not like, you know, you're starting out with online coaching All right, you're transitioning to online coaching is a matter of necessity and temporarily But that said, you know, we do have master's females both of us in our online coaching practice Where we you know where we've started from scratch and it can it can be done It's a different experience And what we find with those athletes is that we have to be a little bit more conservative in our approach Right, right So if debbie were to come to me and start as a raw novice I'd add weight to her bar more slowly as an online coach Then I would as an in-person coach for you know, again I can't stop you in the middle of a set if I see you doing something And yeah, we want to prevent injury But actually it's pretty uncommon to get injured under the bar because of a form error It's more common to get injured because You know, you put too much weight on the bar or you never learn the movement pattern Right to begin with your programming is inappropriate or you just never had the movement pattern at all because you weren't coach So it's a very very safe form of training Which is why it's part of our general exercise prescription for older adults So definitely if you have access to an in-person coach That is especially one who has experience with masters that is definitely the way to go But it's better to lift than to not lift And if you have to go with online coaching You know, then that's what you had better do because the benefits are huge either way And for anyone that Has trained in a commercial gym before and they didn't like the attention that they get from other people You know, you can always lift at your house If you're lucky enough to be able to set up a home gym if you can Yeah, because it's a completely controlled environment. I think that's one of the big things in this gym Is that it's a completely controlled environment. No one is doing anything while you lift Yeah, it's controlled with regards to Technique and the programming and to coaching and what people are physically doing under the bar But there's also a you know, there's also a certain amount of environmental control And social control here people, you know, people feel like they're in An exclusive environment. They know nobody's going to come up And you know and try to mansplain Or you know ridicule or you know, quote-unquote help, you know, they're not going to be approached by some random stranger Hey, little lady, what are you doing there? You know, that's you know, that's not going to happen Here and you still you also get that with a home gym, right? And we're also not going to talk politics and religion. You know, I I never had any uncomfortable situation like that And I would rather be in a gym In case I'm stuck under the bar or something. It's nice to have other people around They'll come running. Yeah, they will. They always do. Hey, little lady, right help So for other women that are physically active now, but maybe in more conventional Female activities, I guess like yoga or cardio classes. Do you have any Final advice for them especially because you do yoga and now you do tai chi as well. I do yoga and tai chi Thank you, selly You're welcome introducing me to that. I know I love yoga. I think that's an important compliment I think it's a great compliment as well. Yeah, however the aerobics we do get the aerobic benefit here with Pushing the prowler and everything we do does raise our heart rate We've been playing around with with wearing a heart rate monitor in my little group So I think that this is an important addition to whatever Other things a woman might be doing whether it's aerobics or yoga or Whatever they're doing They're going to do it better if they're strong. Absolutely than if they're weak. Yeah So Debbie I can't thank you enough for joining us today. You brought some real insight and on a personal note We are really really going to miss you. I look forward to seeing you online, but it won't be the same You need to remind me to put your tai chi program in there alongside your barbell program And I wish you safe travels and good training And lots of happiness and I'll be looking forward to the day when you walk back into this gym The train with me and sherry and noa again. Thanks selly. You will be missed This is the barbell logic podcast our special series on the barbell prescription with my co-host coach noa hayden Also a great still strength and conditioning. We thank you all for listening And we hope you'll join us again as this series continues Until then be well barbell logic signing off