 2021, it's the new year. I'm Tim Apachele, your host. This is Rediscovering America. The new title is Capital Storm. Who's responsible? I just saw an image of the house chamber where the doors were barricaded, the windows were broken, protesters that have stormed into the Capitol building, peering into the window with three, could be Capitol Police, could be Secret Service, all dressed in a suit and ties with a revolver drawn, pointing at the protesters through the broken windows. That's an image that'll never leave my mind. That's an image that should never happen. That's an image that has not happened in the 250 odd years that this country has been a country, a nation, the Capitol's been stormed and this is a moment of disgust for every American. And if it's not, shame on you. I'm gonna introduce our guests for the new year for Rediscovering America. With me today is Jay Fidel, Cynthia Leeson, Claire, Stephanie Dalton, and Winston Welch. Jay, going to you. The image is- Trump is responsible for this. Unfortunately, the Capitol Police were not prepared, but it's clear enough he's responsible. He told him to come to Washington. He told him to have a wild time. He was there at the initiation of their march on the Capitol. Their march on the Capitol is in violation of law in many ways, serious, felonious, federal law. It's an insurrection and he is likewise guilty. Let me just say this to you, Jay. It's not only what you say to create an insurrection, it's what you don't say to stop it, to put an end to it. And what he has said is that they're the party of peace in law and order. Yeah, and he's saying, remain peaceful. He's not saying one word to vacate the premise, not one. Well, it's very cute, but he's responsible. And any jury would find he was completely responsible for generating this storm and violence. And what's happening now is the violence is accelerating. It's, give it what, four or five hours ahead. It's heading into the evening time in Washington. They show no signs of leaving. The Capitol police show no effective signs of repelling them. There will be violence, there will be guns fired. There already have been guns fired and there will be counter firing. And before you know it, we'll have violence in the halls of our most dedicated building. So, what does that mean? That means that Trump should be impeached immediately. This is so outrageous, so illegal, such a violation of our democracy and everything around the presidency and the government that he should be impeached immediately. That's a lot more possible than it was before because you have a Democratic Congress just been seated. You have Nancy still in charge. You have a Senate that's been flipped. This could go to an impeachment immediately. And I think it needs to happen. It needs to happen to show the world that we can control this sort of thing, that the president is accountable and that he's not above the law. This should happen right away. Furthermore, he should be indicted for treason or whatever works in order to punish him criminally for what he has done. Let me ask you this, because Donald Trump could not get to where he's at today to cause all this destruction of the, to put our democracy under the bus. He could not have done this along. He's had his enablers. And I'll go to the name of Ted Cruz of Texas, Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, Josh Hawley of Missouri and John Kennedy of Louisiana. These are his enablers, his primary enablers who have set the stage for this. What about them? What about them, Jay? They should be responsible and punished just as well. I mean, we have to put the government back together again and we can't just take a pass on this. This is the biggest crisis that has ever happened, bar none, bar even the civil war. And so what we have to have is responsibility and retribution, if you will. Biden is hiding as he should. He's a big target. Other people that Trump has targeted before, likewise hiding, I think the press is at some risk because this is gonna pop up elsewhere. It's not gonna be limited to Washington. He's given them the go ahead. He's told them, you know, have a wild time. All of you people, if you can't make it to Washington, have a wild time somewhere else. I think the country is in the middle of a national insurrection. But isn't this pointing into his hands that he wants to see violence in the street so he can enact the insurrection act? Well, looking at the capital alone, it's my view that if these people don't leave the capital, they have to be shot. They have to be dispatched from the capital. And if they don't wanna leave voluntarily, then there should be police who will remove them. I don't think that's worthy of martial law. I don't think that's worthy of declaring some sort of emergency. They just have to be removed. Unfortunately, our police in Washington were not able to organize in advance. Bottom line, though, is that this threatens the election. That's what he's trying to do. And what we have to figure out, I mean all of us, but including this group, is what's gonna happen here? How long is this gonna last? How much violence can we tolerate? And how much delay can we tolerate in the inauguration? And what's gonna happen to the government? It reminds me of designated survivor, which was a serial on cable, where the Congress was effectively destroyed and they had to rebuild the government from scratch. Well, we may not have to rebuild it from scratch, but we certainly have to rebuild it. We have to get Congress going again. Even in the YWCA gym, we have to get them to vote. We have to get them to do so. Okay, let me hit on that point because Amy Klobuchar said despite this disruption, despite the intrusion into the Capitol, the Senate and the House, we will resume and we will take care and resume the process of the Electoral College nomination. Even though it's ceremonial, she said that this interruption will not stop that. So they're planning to meet as soon as these people are cleared out of the Senate and the House. I think they should not wait on that. If this continues for a day or two or three, they should find another venue and meet there. Well, Amy Klobuchar said it's going to happen today. Tonight, we're not gonna have this interrupted because what message does that send to the international community that we are nothing more than a balleris or a South American dictatorship that's been stormed by the public? Well, that message has been sent. Like it or not, these TV scenes have been broadcast around the world and we are amazed and we are disgusted and shocked with Trump's insanity, but the reality is the whole world has seen it and they judge us as a country by what's happening. Great, great point. I'm gonna take that point, Cynthia. What message specifically is being received by the other countries of the world? What are they taking out of this? Well, our adversaries are taking out the fact that we are more vulnerable than we've ever been before or probably ever will be again. So if it's like a big giant welcome sign because if they ever wanted to use force against Americans, now would be the time when there's so much unrest and so much disconnection with all of the different agencies that our government has, then you gotta add in there also, we had a big huge hack by Russia just recently. So all of our ability to communicate within our agencies has possibly been compromised too. So we are honestly at a place that is more vulnerable than we have ever ever been before. By the way, FYI, the White House, the administration has confirmed that that big hack came from Russia. No dispute, despite Donald Trump's words that it was probably China, it was Russia. As we all knew from the very start, but Donald Trump had to get in the way of that to try to do his magic tricks to say it wasn't Russia because he has such allegiance, I think, to Russia somehow. Well, not just somehow. We know he does have an allegiance to Russia. He has shown it over and over and over from the very beginning, the very first people he invited to the White House after his inauguration, the Russians, they got a hit on our soldiers and he does nothing about it. He does nothing but cover, cover, remove troops from places that helps Putin. In Syria and the way he totally abandoned the Kurds, the way he did, all of that helped Russia. And lots of people ask, I wonder what he has on Trump to make him do this. I don't know as I think he's got anything on him. I think he's got something for him. I think he's offered him power and money and those are the most powerful things that Trump wants. So- All right, very good point, Cynthia, for him. I think that's a very good point and probably some more hotel deals in Moscow. Exactly. Peter Winston, how does Joe Biden move forward given where we are as of this afternoon? How does Joe Biden either try to reconcile Republican senators, Republican House representatives and to what degree doesn't he try to reconcile to follow Jay's point that an example needs to be made of Donald Trump and the horrible things he's done to this image of this country, the symbolic nature of democracy in this country has been shattered as of this afternoon. How does Joe Biden move forward? We all move forward is the question I think we need to ask if Joe Biden is our leader and he, like I said, a lot of baking soda on this. I was amazed the restraint that was shown by that the Capitol Police did not just start shooting people as they ascended the stairs and the barricades at least with smoke, tear gas or whatever that was shown, for example, for the Bible incident. I mean, could they have not responded with at least that level when you're storming one of the most secure buildings in the world? This was a shocking miscalculation on the behalf of the Capitol Police, which is one of the most well-armed forces in the country. They have bomb-stiffing dogs and all kinds of things so that they can keep that building secure. So this is a shock on that level, but I think we're going to come out of it okay, it's a hard day for America, it's a beating, but at the end of the day, we do have Biden. He has been, he will be a certified whether he's certified or not today or not. It doesn't matter. I agree that they need to get in with Amy Klobuchar. They need to go back tomorrow, today, whenever it's going to be and certify this election so that it's on board. Mike Pence has come up very strongly saying, this is wrong, I don't agree with it. As in the violence that's happening, he says he loves the Constitution, he's not stopping this. So he's positioning himself, I think with, he's trying to ride two horses at the same time, but I think he's eventually, who knows maybe we'll do the 25th amendment. It's one horse or the other now, it's one horse or the other. That leads me to the, my question is, for those senators who were part of this, to protest the electoral college vote, do they now switch midstream and say, it's gone too far, we are no longer part of this? Or do they stay for us? They were just on the floor, like every other one of their colleagues, whether they were Democrats or Republicans, they were on the floor hiding for their lives, told to take out their gas masks, evacuated to a bomb shelter. They could have just as easily faced more danger as their democratic colleagues. And they realized they cannot control the monster they've created anymore. And they may be, we've seen some shifts since the last week of McConnell and the people that are not going to stand up. But I think, yes, we're going to say, these people have realized that the very structure that their homes are being targeted, McConnell and Pelosi's homes. So if they don't realize by now that the entire system's crumbling, not just their power structure, but for right now just their lives are existence as a nation, they will make the right choices and do like my Pence and say, the constitution is more important than my party. And that's what they have to do. McConnell no longer has the gavel at the house floor of the Senate, excuse me, the Senate floor, he no longer has the gavel. So what influence does McConnell have over these senators who have abandoned logic and have completely been sucked and hypnotized by Donald Trump, these 11 senators, McConnell has really no influence any further over them. Do they, again, I'll go to the question. Do those senators switch their position or do they stay the course? I think they're going to stay the course with a caveat. They're going to say, yes, there were regulation, election irregularities, but we don't agree with what's happened since then. So they'll also ride two horses, but they can't stay wed to this position. I don't think, who knows, but the thing is they don't really believe it. This is just craven political positioning for 2024. But like I said, right now, we just got a sort of everybody calm down. I think the Virginia National Guard, the Maryland National Guard are going in to support Washington DC, it's under a curfew. There's going to be a lot more problems tonight, tomorrow. Hopefully not. I don't expect anything from Donald Trump, except more chaos and mayhem, but we knew something like this would happen, but we could never imagine this scale. It's a bad day for our nation and for the world, but we will come out of it okay. And we have so much damage. How long does that take? How long does that take for us to come out of this, Winston? Well, the immediate damage, this is just like a cyclone hitting. You know, we have so many structures that need to be repaired and reinforced from actual structures like the security at the Capitol building to our very basic democratic structures and institutions of how we vote, what the rules are to never ever allow this again. And I think the Senate, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you have a vested interest in getting this done as soon as possible. Thank you, Winston. Stephanie, same question to you. How does Joe Biden move forward? How does the Democratic administration, the new one that's just being formed, how do they move forward in the lieu of this action? And not so much with Donald Trump. I mean, I don't know if he gets a pass or they actually follow with an impeachment process or not with the investigation of impeachment, but more so to the senators and the House representatives that supported this whole thing and have never spoken up really in the last four years. How do they move forward with this? As a guest, as I was at the white men climbing through and breaking the window of the Capitol. And as a guest, as I was at the lack of any barrier, no police, no anything, I was totally shocked and I hope you all were too. And I think this should be on the Washington Post tomorrow. They invaded Nancy Pelosi's office. There's a white guy in boots with his feet up on her chair sitting there, having written a note on her desk in the front that says, we're not going away. And her whole desk was shown there empty. So the only- Okay, well, I'm gonna interject right there. I hate to do it, maybe I'll have too much coffee. I'm gonna interject. Donald Trump says, my followers, we are the party of law and order. Where is the law and order in that description you just made? Well, it's utter and complete chaos. And the only thing missing as I risk hyperbole here is a guillotine. They forgot to bring that with them. So I guess they could have bought a battery ram or something. But I agree completely with Jay as to immediate impeachment. And there are some voices on the media saying this. Immediate impeachment of him and particularly for the purposes of making sure he's put off from ever running for any political office or having any responsibility again. So it's really- I'm not giving an answer. There's another element too. If you impeach him, he's no longer the president. Remember, we're not a January 20th yet. And he's got several days to do more of the same and to lead this into insurrection. I think it's gonna happen. By the way, I don't know if you noticed him but there's a question from a viewer and I'll read it. A bomb has been found at the Capitol now. Oh. Someone has been shot at the Capitol now. But the viewer writes that Fox News, however, is still describing this as a peaceful protest. That's a crock with so many- Of course they are. Of course they're sad about the reporting. And the question posed by this viewer is with so many people- I have no doubt that's- As to the question is- I get this, Jane. I have no doubt that that's what the reporting. I mean, they report that which is only positive to Donald Trump. Last night I was watching the election results. Fox moved away from it once they realized that Perdue was losing his seat. They moved away from all coverage. So they report that which they wish to make Donald Trump look good in the GOP party and they'll avoid and they'll basically shade in so many shades the truth of what's really happening and to call this a peaceful protest is absurd. It's a criminal. And as to your question- Yes, you see, you get involved with this. Well, as to your question, Tim, good question, is the answer is the power is with Biden once he is inaugurated. And he has the power and I believe he has the competence and the skills and the history and the experience to bring to the thing, the goals that he has set. I mean, they are gonna be very, very hard. But now with the two Democrats from Georgia evidently winning, which is a miracle beyond belief, hallelujah, I think it's gonna work. And I think the country is gonna be amazed. And he will still have some heavy duty stuff to do with these people. I don't know who they are or what, they looked a lot male, they looked a lot young, they looked very dangerous and something, and they ought to be considered traders too. So they ought to be in there rounding them up. So here's the other thing. Where were the Capitol Police? Where was the Secret Service? Where is the Glade Ever? Where were they? Let me give you an answer what Reverend Al Sharpton said to that, that question. Reverend Al Sharpton says, I have organized more protests at the Capitol and have come up with a plethora of rules and security measures that no one could even imagine when I, a part of the organizer of these protests at the Capitol, he said, there needs to be an immediate investigation of the Capitol Police of how this occurred. He said, it didn't happen by accident. There was someone on the inside that made this happen. Now, that's a theory, but that theory needs to be followed through and investigated because I'm with Winston. How did this happen? How could this possibly be with the most well-armed security force in the country? You're implying that Trump himself is responsible somehow that he had them stand down or his Republican supporters had them stand down. And that does make a lot of sense, but the priority here, there's two priorities as far as I see. One is this question. I never got a chance to read the end of it. With so many people stubborn in their beliefs, the viewer says, will this lead to another civil war? And you know, you have- No. Cretation. There's too much other to think about. The base is active in other parts of the country. There are, watch, it'll be a me too kind of thing. There'll be other issues, other troubles elsewhere in the country. Well, the other priority I want to mention is the priority of COVID. We can never forget COVID. It's going like a rocket ship, okay? And this was a super spreader event for sure. This has been a super spreader event. And to the extent it's repeated in other places, in the country, no masks, no distancing, it'll be other super spreader events and we'll see the effect of that too. We're in a bad condition right now. We're done, well, we're not okay. But Tim, just let me say this. We have the House, we have the Democrats. Biden has all the major positions of power under his influence. Now, this is his test and his challenge is to do what he says he can do and bring the people in that can do it. I believe that we, that's why I said, hallelujah, we got all three. He was made it. Yes, I agree, Stephanie. This is an important point and thank God for it because otherwise we'd be in a gridlock as we were with the Obama administration. But here's the deal, here's the deal. Right. To answer the second part of that viewer's question, we have been in a cold civil war now for four to five years. Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, we've lost family members, friends, acquaintances, we've polarized as a nation and if that is as close to as cold civil war as we've ever been in a long, long time. So I agree with the person's question whether that's plausible that we can go into a violent civil war. And I hate to say it, but today it might have been the opening salvo of that. Well, here's like that. You asked about what do we do? Here's a representative Michael Walts who was going to a GOP congressman who was going to object to election results condemns protesters breaching the Capitol. He says, this is despicable. So because his life was just threatened right now. And he said, you know, he served in Africa and Afghanistan. He said, this is not how we dissolve our disputes, not here in America. And he did say that the, it looks like Donald Trump called for people to go home. I can't see in a tweet that he said that, but apparently that would have been in the last like five minutes or so. But yeah. If he did, Winston, it was under protest. I guarantee you that. Fox just announced that the Democrats are to take control of the Senate. So it's over, okay? So now there's a clean slate and this man, Biden has been given this responsibility and he's got to do it. He'll do it. I have not got a question or an answer to the question. And I understand why, because it's hard to predict. Jay, to you, what happens to these senators and these House representatives, the 11 senators and the 140 some odd representatives, what happens to them on the position they've taken to overthrow our democracy and the validity of a valid vote? What happens to them, if anything? No, I don't know how far they got in making their objections today. I mean, they said they were going to object. Well, I'm talking about the last two to three weeks. I'm not talking about just today. Well, yes, I mean, it's true. And if you want to know the sanction on that, it's just going to be at the polls next time around. And I think it's the responsibility of the media to point out to everyone what they did here in this period and what they did today, whatever it was, so that they never get elected again. And the media should be repeating that ad nauseam. We should never forget. Now, if you ask me whether there should be retributive prosecutions, I think there should be an investigation. And I think that Biden's first act should be to appoint a special prosecutor and find out who was involved in this business and prosecute, actually prosecute. And if that means prosecuting sitting congressmen, then let prosecute them. Well, does Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi have anything in their toolkit to do something immediately about these folks? Yeah, they can censure them. They'd have to win the vote. It again would be political. And there's a lot of Republicans who would vote against that. So I think the idea of assigning blame is too early. It really is too early. We have a crisis going on in our national capital, our national government and our country in general because it will spread. And we have to deal with that. We have to find a way to get him out of the way, to avoid any kind of military involvement in his favor. And by the way, it's kind of ironic that the military has neutralized itself so it cannot participate in supporting Biden either. So it's out of the picture. And the only thing we have is the Capitol Police. But the immediate problem is to get them out of the Congress one way or the other without allowing him to do martial law and to get back to government. Because right now, right now we don't have a government. We do not have a government. Okay, Jay, if you're going to just repeat something that Cynthia said, we are as vulnerable as we've ever been. Remember, over the past few weeks we found that Russia was doing a job on us. Not only the military, but on our corporate affairs, our consumer affairs, everyone in the country has been in some way affected by the hacking. Well, now we are even more vulnerable. This would be a perfect time for Putin to step it up and do more damage to us. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the third rail. We've got to resolve this immediately. We've got a couple minutes left, Jay. Well, that's the third rail that hasn't happened. And it will, although we have to hack it. Hang on, what is time? Okay, Jay, we've got a couple minutes left. If you're Joe Biden, what are the next words that come out of your mouth? The Congress is meeting. The Congress is going to confirm. I am ready to be inaugurated. We are going to do it on the 20th. In the meantime, I want to take a moment to tell you what I think about Trump's actions. And any right-thinking American has to separate himself from Trump right now. Okay, Cynthia, same question to you. And then you had something you wanted to say. Sedition is the word I want to say. I don't know about treason. I don't know if they could really press treason, but there have been more senators that have been impeached than president. Okay, if you're Joe Biden, what are the next words out of your mouth? Sedition. Okay. Okay, Winston, same question to you. If you're Joe Biden here in the next couple of hours, what do you say to the nation? You say, I think all Americans for remaining calm and supporting our democracy and our nation as the huge majority of people do, whether they're in Idaho or Alabama or Massachusetts or California or Hawaii, as we support also our national forces and our police officers who are on the side of right, as well as our elected officials bravely carrying out their duties to keep our nation strong, vibrant, and moving forward. He needs to be calm. Okay, we're almost out of time. Thank you very much, Winston. We're almost out of time. Stephanie, same question. You're Joe Biden. What do you say in the next hour? And then your last comment, please. As Nancy Pelosi said, let there be peace out of the prayer of the same Augustine. Let there be peace and let it begin with me, each one of us. Wise words. Jay, your last comments. I'm really scared. That's my last comment. I'm scared for the country. I'm scared for what's gonna happen here. I don't have a level of confidence. I'd like to be optimistic as Winston is, but I am not, sorry. And we have to take some dramatic action. Proper leaders have to take the floor here. And what we have is Biden and we must rely on him. And I hope he has the goods. All right, now I'm gonna have a last word as well. No, sorry, Cynthia, your last word. You know, every parent knows that when your child misbehaves, if you don't have a consequence, they do it again. And then their friends start doing it too. And without consequences. And I agree with Winston. Yes, we need to move on peacefully. But if we just turn our backs to the horrific kind of anti-American behavior that's been going on, then we are complicit also. And so I think it is absolutely imperative that there be consequences for the senators and all of the people that are involved in this bit of sedition that's going on right now, and especially Trump. Okay, thank you. And I don't disagree with that, Cynthia, either there are consequences, but right now, like they need to calm everyone down so that we can get to that point of justice and the law, because right now it's lawless. Okay, I agree. I wanna thank everybody. I'm not done yet. I'm gonna have the last word on this because I'm just gonna say to all that I know, all the people I know and all the people I don't know, if you're still following Donald Trump after what has just occurred, you have to make a decision whether he's more important and his type of governance is more important or the democracy of this country. It's either or now. There's no gray area. There's nothing in between. It's either or. So make that decision. And then if you decide that you wanna be on the side of Donald Trump, then wear that badge as proudly as you can because you are not for this government. You're not for the United States of America, not in this environment, not like this. And that is my final word. I wanna thank Jay Fiedel, Cynthia Leeson-Clair, Winston Welch, Stephanie Dalton. I'm Tim Appatulio, your host for Rediscovering America. See us next Wednesday at 11 o'clock.