 Hello, it's great to be here with you today. Good morning from Seattle, Washington, which is where I'm joining you from. I'm executive editor of Cipher, a new publication by Breakthrough Energy, covering the technological transformation that we need to tackle climate change. Cipher means zero, as in our collective goal of zero emissions. We just launched a few weeks ago, and you can sign up for our news updates at ciphernews.com. I'm thrilled to be joined by an incredible panel today to talk about the world's transportation industry, which accounts for about 16% of global greenhouse gas emissions. How this industry can embrace the urgent goal of reaching net zero emissions by 2050. We've timed today's panel to coincide with Transport Day at COP26, that's nearing an end today and this week, in Glasgow, Scotland. Our panelists will help make sense of all the news coming out of COP26 and also the commitments and actions by some of the leading transportation companies in the world. I'll also be receiving some questions via the audience for those. Now without further ado, our panelists today are Ajay Singh, Chairman and Managing Director of SpiceJet based in India, Frank Apple, CEO, Deutsche Post DHL based in Germany, Dara Kosher Shahi, CEO, Uber Technologies based in the United States. Thank you so much for joining us today. So for the opening question, I would love to just get a high level reaction take from each of you. So over the last 10 days, we've heard major announcements from cities and countries and businesses. I feel a bit saturated with all the news and I can imagine many other people do as well. So cutting through that noise, what do you think are the most important outcomes for COP26? Ajay, why don't we start with you? Well, Amy, we've all heard the news. There's lots of good stuff happening. A lot of commitments being made, including by the Indian Prime Minister who announced that India will be net zero by 2070. I think we were the first developing country to announce that. And that's a significant milestone for our country, which has typically been deprived in a sense of the use of the dirty technology that has allowed the world to prosper. So I think the Indian announcement was a really significant one. We take our responsibility extremely seriously as a country with 1.3 billion people. We know that we will pollute more than many others in the future. And we need to grapple with that and make sure that we have a solution. In the aviation space as well, we have really been very proactive along with the World Economic Forum and the Clean Skies for tomorrow. And we will talk about this through the conversation. But I think the one thing that concerns me about COP26 is who the hell is going to pay for all the cleanup that needs to happen? Because there seems to be a lot of dispute about that at the moment. In 2009, the developed countries promised that they will provide $100 billion by 2020 to developing countries. Did it really happen? They are resisting an audit. So we don't know if that really happened. Who really pays? And if it is that the polluter pays as a principle and the developing countries have to develop, countries have to pay, who amongst the developed countries have to pay? So I think we need to cut through that crap as soon as we possibly can because we are in deep, deep trouble. And I think we need to find an answer to this. I think that's the biggest thing for me from COP26 that over and above the commitments that people are making, where is the money? That's great. That is definitely a theme. And whether it comes to things like loss and damage, to the impacts of climate change, to paying for the new technologies that companies like yours will need down the line. So that's great. Thanks so much. Frank, why don't we go to you? Thank you, Amy. And good morning. Good afternoon, wherever you are. So I think I would take three things somehow. The first is that definitely the commitment to reduce deforestation or stop it somehow is I think it's a major achievement. The second is that countries now committing to reduce methane are getting admitted to the world. But the most important one is I think we have much more discussion how we tackle global warming instead of what we need to do. So it's much more now we are getting closer to an execution of which I think is important. And that's also visible if you talk to many companies, I think the world has accepted that this is a problem and now we are working on the solution. And that I think is very encouraging. Great. Thanks so much. Dara, why don't we go with you now? Absolutely. So I think from our standpoint, it's clear that we all have to work rapidly to decarbonize the transportation sector. The transportation sector is one of the biggest emitters out there. Uber specifically, we have committed to be emission free as a mobility platform by 2030 in US, Canada, Europe, and then 2040 all over the world. And for me, what was encouraging as it relates to COP26 is industry, private companies, governments coming together and making these kinds of commitments because ultimately the commitments are going to lead to action. And this is, I've always said climate is a team sport, no individual country, no individual industry, no individual company is going to be able to drive this without all of us coming together. And for us specifically, we were proud to sign the landmark declaration on zero emissions as it relates to cars and vans. And we saw government come in, Chile, Canada, the UK sign up as well. And then we also saw industry come in for Volkswagen, a bunch of other players committed as well. And I think once you get countries, industry, companies committed, then the action plans start happening. And there's a lot of work to do between now and then, but a statement, but it starts with a statement of purpose. That's great. I want to double down a bit more on specifically what your companies have committed either at COP or around COP and how you plan to achieve those goals. So, Dara, why don't we start with you on that? I know you've had a lot of news on this front lately. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. Well, for us, it starts with our drivers and the vehicles themselves. And we need to create the environment where drivers who are engaging in the mobility platform have financial incentives to move from emission vehicles to zero emission vehicles. And so some of the examples that you'll see, for example, in London, London Mayor City Khan has really pushed forward a very forward-looking congestion and emissions charge in London, where EVs essentially aren't subject to that kind of an emission charge. And that kind of a policy then creates the incentive for drivers to start flip over to EV cars. So in London specifically, our drivers, rideshare drivers are flipping over to EV vehicles at 12 times the rate than the averages that you see in London as far as the average driver goes out there. And you can count that our drivers are logging a lot more miles or kilometers than the average driver. So they should be the tip of the spear. And with City Khan, with this kind of a visionary policy, we're already seeing a flip over on in our population to EV. In Europe, our drivers are flipping over EV five times faster than, again, the average car owner. And probably if you measure it in miles, it's higher than that as well. So it starts with drivers. You see another announcement for us in terms of in the US, allowing our drivers who are renting cars to be able to rent Teslas, which one are very cool. Our riders like Teslas a lot, but it's an affordable way for renters of vehicles to, again, getting into emissions free vehicles. So it starts essentially with a fleet for us. We are then creating a consumer product. And Uber Green is now in over 100 cities all over the world. It is the broadest mobility green product available out there. We want our Uber users to want to go green and to pay premium on green, whether that premium relates to price or waiting time. So we want to familiarize users with this and allow them to contribute into the climate change as well. Putting these two together, we think can create a lot of momentum for us to become emissions free as a platform and hopefully pushing other providers to do the same. Well, that's a good segue to Frank. I want to ask you that question about what your company has committed to either at cop or round cop. As such a massive logistics company, you have such a big footprint and an influence in the space. So I would love to hear what you guys have committed to and what you might do in the future. Thank you, Amy. So we have done a lot already for quite some time. We started the journey already in 2008 by saying we want to increase our efficiency. We have committed already for five years now that we want to be carbon free by 2050. The biggest footprint of ours is, of course, the airplanes we are operating either directly or indirectly in scope free. Earlier this year, we have committed to spend $7 billion until 2030 to reduce our carbon footprint on a science based target. For instance, by having 30% of a few we use in our airplanes, sustainable aviation fuel, 60% of our fleet electric delivery events, we have already 20,000 that would be 80,000 by then and the electric vehicles we have produced our self-majority. We will do all carbon free new buildings in our warehouse and space. I think important is that we said we want to spend $7 billion until 2030 and that has changed internally as well by climate dynamics. Overall, what we see in our industry is that the train has left the station. The mixture of governments are looking to the investors are looking to that and demanding carbon reduced solutions is striving now and in scanning pace. Our customers are looking for reduced carbon footprints and logistics. We want to provide them. Just today we announced, and that is linked to COP26, we announced that we will now use sustainable aviation for the out of British midlands. Our airport we operate there will save 70,000 tons of carbon, which is quite a lot, but it's still little in comparison to our footprint. We need more sustainable aviation fuel and the good news is that customers are demanding and we will not provide that. I think what is necessary to go further beyond the companies is that we get the infrastructure to really produce sustainable aviation fuel that is currently from cooking oil and we need, of course, other solutions. But the good news is our customers are looking for these solutions. We want to provide them. We secure, we pay significantly higher prices for it. So, AJ's question earlier, who will pay for it? At the end of it, the customers will pay for it. I have no doubt that this will happen because customers are looking for that. And I think as I said to the train has left the station and is gaining pace. I want to dive into that a bit deeper in just a moment. But first, I want to go to AJ you and say your take. I mean, as a company in a country that's still rapidly growing, how do you balance your commitments as a company to reduce your carbon footprint while you're still growing? Look, you know, India will be the third largest aviation country in the world by 2025. We will surpass Great Britain. And so, after the US and China, we will be the third largest aviation country in the world. So, we have an added responsibility. And as a company, we have committed to net zero emissions by 2050. We've signed on to that pledge. We have also committed to a 10% blend of SAF by 2030. All our flights will be on a 10% SAF blend by 2030. We have demonstrated that this is possible already. We have actually flown a flight with a 25% blend. And just as a demonstrator flight, and we would be doing more of those. As Frank was saying, of course, we need to look for, you know, where the sustainable aviation fuel comes from. We have worked with VEF and the teams for tomorrow initiative and produced a report for the government of India, you know, detailing where the feedstock is, what the production technologies is, how the government can go about doing this. And we are pushing the government very hard. I think the first proposal is to ensure that there is a 1% blend immediately. And then going up to a 5% blend in the next five years and by 2028 going up to a 10% blend. I think over and above that in the short term, Spicejet has committed that they will replace all their old aircraft for new aircraft, which is new technology burns 20, 25% less fuel than the old aircraft. And this process should be complete by 2022. So we've talked all about the incredible goals that you all have, but you know, it's still hard to be meeting these goals, whether it's your own company goals or the net zero goals for countries and the whole world. So what would you say? Maybe Dara, I'll throw this one to you to start. What would you say are the biggest challenges, hurdles preventing you from having more success with your goals? Is it political? Is it economic? Is it technological? Is it consumer behavior, particularly with a company like Uber? I think for us, it's about the economics. You've got to make the economic flywheel work. And I point out two issues right now, which is the majority of the successful EV vehicles now, the Teslas of the world, are luxury vehicles. And you ultimately have to transition this vehicle base and moving over to EV to be something that can be more affordable. So I think affordability for the general populace and especially for our driver pool is a real challenge. We are stepping up, we're essentially paying a premium for every electric ride or a hybrid ride versus an emission ride in order to create an economic incentive for drivers to flip over to an electric vehicle. But in addition to our stepping up, essentially we need governments to step up, industry to step up, local regulators to step up as well. You've got to make it work industrially for everybody, not just let's say the lead or the wealthy who can afford to do so because it's easier for some for wealthy countries, et cetera, to make that switch. The second I'd say is on infrastructure, which is in cities, we need charging infrastructure. We need to invest very aggressively in charging infrastructure. What we've seen is that a tendency for the charging infrastructure to go into the middle of cities, obviously more highly trafficked, et cetera, but we need to look at infrastructure holistically and make sure that charging infrastructure is available in the outskirts, in the neighborhoods where our drivers live. They don't have a garage to recharge. Many of them don't have a garage to recharge or vehicle with. And we want the charging infrastructure to be there, not just for the well off, but for the broad population in the cities in which we operate. And is your thinking, Dar, that having Uber drivers being able to rent Teslas helps just have Teslas permeate the non-wealthy population more in addition to being able to have subsidies from the federal government, for example, because electric vehicle costs are actually, their sticker prices are going up along with all cars, of course. Yeah. We want to make it broadly available. What we see with our rental drivers is that they tend to log a significant number of miles. Our rental drivers on average drive greater hours and log more distance than our non-rental drivers. So we want it to target we're very data oriented as a company. And we want to be as effective as possible as early as possible. And with rental drivers, we allow a bridge to EV. It does maximal good in terms of environmental impact. And it's a bridge for them to understand just how much they can earn with an electric vehicle to create this flywheel, this economic flywheel for our broader driver base. Great. Frank and Ajay, I want to go back and kind of drill down a little bit more into the sustainable aviation fuel and the cost because that was something that struck me as a common challenge that you're both facing. Here at Breakthrough Energy, we have a term called the green premium, which explains the cost of a green technology compared to its fossil fuel counterpart. And with sustainable aviation fuel, it's one of the biggest gaps because SAF remains so expensive. So how do you see that cost coming down? And what is the role for companies like yours in doing that? Or is it more something that governments need to step up to do? Ajay, maybe we go to you first. So, Amy, I think firstly, look, it needs to be done. We just need to find a way to do it. And I think it's important that we get all the stakeholders to the table. As Dara was saying, ultimately, it's about economics. Aviation is a very, very small margin business. And we certainly cannot afford expensive SAF to fuel our planes because we don't believe that the customers who will be willing to pay for a green flight are a significant number of people at the moment. So what you have to do is, much as I think what happened when we set up the International Solar Alliance and you remember that the cost of solar energy was really, really high, at least in our country was extremely high. And then as volumes built, as technology improved, as volumes built, the cost came crashing down. And today, solar power in this country costs less than thermal power. So you need to do something similar in sustainable aviation fuel. Governments will need to step up and reduce taxes or completely eliminate taxes. I think in a country like India where there's a lot of feedstock available, it's an agricultural country, there's a lot of excess molasses, sugar, all those kind of feedstock which you could possibly use. You need to use it on an industrial basis to create production capacity, which is large scale. And as you build scale, I think you would drop the cost of SAF. And the goal, of course, is to get SAF to be lower cost than aviation turbine fuel currently. That's the one way in which everybody will adopt it really, really fast because the margins are so, so slim that the moment that there is a small differential and SAF is actually cheaper than aviation turbine fuel, everybody will run to adopt it. So we need to find a way to make that happen through industrial process, government, all stakeholders, and of course, some mandates from government as well. Thank you. I made a comment about the lack of supply for sustainable aviation fuel. Can you talk about how that is challenging? No question about it. I mean, there is no supply at the moment. What we manufacture is really in little labs, and those are good for test flights. But there is no significant production at the moment. I think this needs to be like a national program, an international program where important airports have facilities which actually are producing sustainable aviation fuel by using waste. And we need to find a way of paying for it. The governments pay for it. Or the customers certainly are very unlikely to pay for it in aviation, in the short run. And so we need to find a way of reducing production cost as well as taxes and making it viable. Great. Thank you so much. Frank, I understand that your company has joined the Biden administration's first movers coalition, which I understand is aimed at helping create demand. So then there will be supply for things like sustainable aviation fuel. Can you talk about the challenges of getting that fuel and the cost of that fuel? Yes. So maybe, first of all, we are a little bit in a different spot because we are doing B2B business, despite that we are doing a lot of e-commerce. But finally, the business customers are paying, the e-tellers are paying for the services. If you look currently, what is happening in logistics for business customers, their prices are skyrocketing. And that is encouraging to see. So nobody has stopped buying abroad a global trade despite that the prices are extremely high at the moment. If you think then in the future, if you think about what we are doing, we probably could be offsetting our whole carbon footprint by 10% more costs. That would mean 10% of our revenue, I mean. And then we have to increase prices. The prices at the moment for ocean trade and air freight are significantly higher than that. So since our customers, business customers are getting demand from their shareholders and their customers, they are looking for solutions. They have to come to us. So it's not an economic problem. 10% by 2030 of our revenue would be not a game changer, I think. The problem is more that we need more availability. And that starts where the governments have to play a role. I understand that in other sectors, like Adra's or Adara's is different because consumers are not willing to pay. But business customers, I think, is different because they have different constraints. We need more infrastructure. We need renewable energy around the world. And that is an infrastructure project. I think energy companies want to build that. But if they can't transmit the power to the right places, it is difficult. Energy companies, we are talking to want to build power to liquid plants if they commit to demand, which we want to do. But then where the green energy is coming from all these kinds of. So I think it's more a problem that, as I said, the train is that decision that is tremendous demand for sustainable aviation, food and maritime. And we see that customers are willing to pay for it. Even retail customers, believe you or not, these are normally tough cookies. They are willing to pay for sustainable maritime food because they need it for their shareholders and their customers. They need it. The problem is, we don't have the world doesn't have the infrastructure to convert solar or wind energy into power to liquid fuel or hydrogen or you name it. And I think that's the goal where the government can help if they facilitate that by allowing to build these plants much more rapidly. But in the democracy of the West, it takes ages before you really get a new plant open or a new cable or poles in place and all this kind of stuff. And that's the challenge, man. And there the government has to play a role, like for all infrastructure governments have to play a role. If that is secured, I will, I have no doubt will see a significant uptake of sustainable aviation from the next coming years. Because again, the surplus price is little in comparison to what customers, business customers are paying currently for container on a vessel or for a tunnel on air freight in the air. The extra cost would be significantly lower. So the model economically could work because the world didn't come to a standstill because the customers are paying significantly higher prices. And that is encouraging despite all the constraints we have supplied to us at the moment. It's encouraging economically it can work, but we need to supply. And so fascinating and encouraging to hear that business customers are willing to pay a higher price. Because to some degree, there will not that will need to occur here in the early stages of this transition. Dara, I want to transition back to individual consumers now. And, you know, you've talked about the critical role that electric vehicles play, but many experts say that another overlooked solution is just more sharing. So using Frank's metaphor of the train, you know, a lot of people get into one train and people get into one bus and then, you know, Uber pool was something many people took before the pandemic. But what role do you think a company like yours plays in encouraging more shared transportation? Well, I think we have to play absolutely a big role there. And I would actually open up the ecosystem a little bit as it relates to sharing and multimodal. And that we are reintroducing Uber pool. We have been investing in high capacity vehicles in Egypt, for example, where you can get 15, 20 passengers in a single vehicle as well. We'll switch over those vehicles to electric in order to get greater density, let's say per vehicle. At the same time, you don't need a four-wheel vehicle to pick up an individual in every single time. So we're investing in multimodal options, two-wheelers and three-wheelers, whether it's bikes and scooters, we have an investment and a great alliance with line bikes. For example, I was in London, there are some great line e-bikes in London. And it's a great way to get around in London, you know, to be trafficked, for example. Then last but certainly not least for us is transit partnerships to make sure that transit methodologies show up right alongside four-wheelers, two-wheelers, three-wheelers, shared and transit so that the consumer has a full choice in terms of where they want to go. And hopefully with the incentives and the economic incentives that we put in play, we'll be marketing Uber green, we'll be marketing pool, we can get consumers to make the right choice for themselves and for the world. That's great. One thing I love about this panel is that you all represent such different industries, but it's still all about how we move ourselves around and how we move our things around. And that's certainly been a top topic in the pandemic, of course, with everything that's been turned upside down because of that. I want to ask each of you, what do you wish that your fellow panelists or other people who you talk to in the climate and energy space, what do you wish that they better understood about the challenges facing your particular industry? Ajay, maybe we start with you. Well, I wish people would understand what a difficult business aviation is and how difficult it is to really, you know, look at the environment and balance, you know, just survival with protecting the environment. And what we do to protect the environment is at great cost, I think to ourselves, but it still needs to be done and we do it and we do it proudly and happily. So I think people need to understand that it's tough out there and that they need to be more supportive and cooperative. I think there's sometimes a lack of understanding of that, especially within government and some other stakeholders. Great, Frank. Yeah, I think, you know, the colleagues on the panel probably have a pretty good understanding of what we are doing and what the challenges are. You know, I would not say that they don't insist whether, yeah, I agree to Ajay, you know, we are flying a lot of airplanes and all the cargo business. If you do that end-to-end, like we do that in our express business is, you know, it's much more stable than the passenger. So I would say when I talk to, you know, CEOs of airlines, you know, they are having much more difficult time because they don't do the end-to-end, you know, Uber maybe the front end and the back end, but not the end-to-end like we do for parcels in express. And they have more demanding customers, you know, at parcels if it's late, nobody is happy. But if an airplane is late, you know, you have 150 people who are complaining heavily why the airplane is late. And that is definitely... I think one other thing that people don't understand is that aviation actually contributes less than 2% of the greenhouse gases of the world. It's just that, you know, people presume that we are the bad boys of omission and actually it's not true. But because the perception is what it is, we still need to do what we need to do. Yeah, that is always true. You know, there are people and that is a little bit of a tricky one with consumers. Consumers are expecting that everything is fixed by companies and that's the reason why consumers are much more challenging than business customers. Business customers have their own interest to create a competitive advantage. But, you know, that, you know, people can buy already sustainable aviation food as pilot passengers on an airplane, but how many pay for it? And if I talk to some CEOs, they say, ah, if I say, you know, I have done it, they say, ah, you were the person who did it. And now I know at least the single passenger. So it is a long way to go. But I think we have to tell consumers as well. You know, they, if they want to live in a greener planet, they have to take a share as well. It can't be just that companies and governments or taxpayers are paying for it. I think everybody has to contribute. And I think we have to make that clear. I wish that it would be different, but it's not different. I think we all have to have skin in the game, including consumers. And we have to educate consumers. If you want to have a greener world, you have to pay a bill for it. And of course, it's much more difficult in India than in the US or in Germany. You know, we are richer in principle. And therefore, we have to find concepts as well, how we balance that. Not people in India can't pay the same costs for a ton of carbon like you can do that in Germany or in the US. I think that is also clear for me, that we have to find schemes where people, everybody pays for carbon emissions, but of course, to a different price. Like we do it's actually in the postal industry for more than 100 years. If you send a letter from India to Germany, the last delivery costs are not the same as you have to, as a private consumer, to pay for a first-class stamp. We as postal operators have created that scheme because we understand otherwise stuff get removed because an Indian can't pay the German price for a first-class letter. We have to think about the same that people in India pay differently or lower than people in Germany or the US or in other rich countries. And I think that's the way to go because then everybody has gained the gain. Everybody contributes, but of course, depending on the development status of the country. Great, Dara, you do interact with a lot of individual consumers. What's your take on what Frank just said, and then also going back to my original question about some misunderstandings either you may think people that you talk to in the energy and climate space or consumers? I think from my standpoint, we're behind. And we have to catch up as it relates to investments in electrification. And for me, it goes to what Frank talked about, which is the most difficult transition is going to be for lower income or disadvantage both countries or people as it relates to, for example, our driver base in cities really leaning into that population and having differential policies where you're leaning in more, whether it's charging infrastructure or thinking about second-hand vehicles, building a second-hand vehicle marketplace for electric vehicles. Those aren't yet top of mind, but they have to be top of mind if we really want to hit the big numbers. The second theme that I would hit is, listen, everyone can rationalize, everyone can say, I'm in a small portion of emissions. This is a tail problem. And so when you're putting together regulations, they have to affect everybody. It's very easy to get an exception. But for example, if you think about the London emissions kind of charge and those kinds of legislations, they've got to apply to everybody. They've got to apply to Uber. They've got to apply to private owners, buses, taxis, delivery trucks. And everybody may try to rationalize and say, well, it shouldn't apply to me because that's Y and Z and my transition is going to have to be harder. We need everyone in if we're going to make this transition work and we can't let people opt out regardless of the industry that you're in or your particular circumstances. That's great. One common theme I'm hearing from the three of you is that the economic urgency and economic imperative of tackling climate change is approaching. Of course, I don't need to tell you this, but in the big scheme of the climate and energy debate, sometimes it gets lost that you still need to make a profit to survive as a company in the world that we're living in. So how do you balance and how do you make sure that you now that climate change is such a pressing issue? How do you make sure that that's a top priority? Well, also not sacrificing safety, whether it's the safety of the fuel, the clean fuel going into your planes or the safety of your scooters if people don't wear helmets. How do you balance those issues when as you all know, if you don't have safety, you don't have anything? RJ, maybe start with you. Well, like you said, safety is absolutely paramount. That is completely non-negotiable. I don't think you can put anything, aviation is such a regulated space that you can't possibly put anything into a plane unless it's been tested by so many, so many people. So in a country like India where it's climate is still not top of the mind when it comes to aviation. People don't say, look, these guys are polluters and therefore maybe we shouldn't fly and stuff like that. I think that's more a Western phenomenon at the moment. It's not as much true in India. So for us, it's more of a duty and more of a responsibility. And we certainly are not saying as Zara was saying that, look, I'm only a small part of the problem so I shouldn't be a part of the solution. Absolutely not. We want to be a leader in finding a solution even if we are a small part of the problem. And it's tougher, a little tougher on us because unlike in Zara's case where they have electric vehicles, we still don't have electric planes. Hopefully we will have them someday and that will help. But we need to take a lead and we need to show the way. And we need to say that, look, even if we are a small part of the problem, even if we are a developing country, even if our people cannot afford to pay, we will still find innovative ways of cleaning our act up and abiding by the same commitments that are peers in the Western world and abiding by them. Great. Well, we just have a few minutes left and I would love to end on a relatively positive note with this evolving challenge. So going back to the COP26 climate conference and everything that's happening in your space on these issues, what are one or two things that each of you are finding inspiration from and that is giving you hope and determination to continue down this race, which is very much a marathon that we'll be running for the rest of our lives. Dara, maybe I'll start with you. Yeah, I think for me what is inspiring, Frank talked about it to some extent, which is companies not get it. Companies, both their employees, from a shareholder standpoint, from a stakeholder standpoint, the incentive is there not just to walk, but to run in a to a non-emissions direction. And when we see regulations like London resulting in a 12x increase in our driver switching over versus the average in London or 5x in Europe, we see that these kinds of incentives work, these kinds of regulatory structures work. So with COP26, with some of the commitments that we made with some of the commitments that many of our compatriots, companies, cities, etc. made, we will see more momentum around this flywheel. And I'm confident that when we check in a year later, two years later, three years later, the flywheel is only going to accelerate. This is not a linear process. This is a non-linear process. And I'm starting to see a little bit of nonlinear curve happen. That's great. Frank, what are some positive things coming out of COP26 and with your company that gives you hope that the train is going to keep moving? Yeah, I think it is now about the how and that is very encouraging. Being a chemist from education, I said a while ago that if we start thinking about carbon dioxide as a resource instead of something which is just creating global warming, because our body consists out of carbon and water in principle, then we will move a needle and I think we are getting there. We can capture carbon dioxide. It's not scaled yet, but I think we can do that in principle. We have the technology from the chemical process, hydrogen and liquid fuel out of our water carbon dioxide, which is great. Or we do ammonium somehow. So it is really now moving. And I think what I take away from the momentum we gain is that our great-grandchildren probably have to pay to take carbon dioxide out of the air. So I'm very optimistic because that is perfect circular economy. When we capture carbon dioxide, we combine it with water and use renewable energy. We have enough wind, we have enough sun. So if we get that way, we definitely will solve that problem. Nature has created that already for millions of years, so why should we not be able? We have cracked so many different difficult things as humanity. So I'm very optimistic because the politicians accepting that this is a problem, the business is willing to help to solve it. Science is making great progress and I think COP26 was probably the next step in that journey. We are talking now about the how and what any longer and I think that's very encouraging. That's great. Ajay, I want to go to you now with some final comments. From your perspective, you opened up with noting out the big and relatively surprising news for many of us of India's net zero goal. What gives you inspiration that a company like yours will be able to grow rapidly as you should be able to because other airline companies in other countries have? What gives you hope that will both be able to combat climate change and have a rapidly growing country and company? I think firstly, what gives me hope is the fact that a poor country, relatively poor country like India can set a goal of net zero by 2070. I think that's something that gives me great hope. India is really growing rapidly and I don't think growth is going to be a huge challenge for a company like SpiceIt but the question is always going to be can we grow responsibly and can we grow in a way that we don't hurt the world and the earth that we live on. So I think the fact that there is so much conversation around COP26 gives me great hope. The fact that it seems to me that there is a bit of an inflection point here that we've been hearing talk for so many years and it seems that there is a little bit of a bias towards action now and that gives me great hope. That's great and the common theme I'm hearing here whether it's Frank's train metaphor or Dara's flywheel is that things are moving. I think the biggest challenge is that things need to move faster. Climate change, the toughest thing about this problem is that it's cumulative. So the longer we wait the harder it gets to solve because the problem gets worse and stays worse until we take big action to solve it. So it's really heartening to hear that change is happening and action is occurring and do in large part to much of the work that your companies are doing. So I want to say thank you very much for the panelists for your insight today. Dara I think you're the one who said when we check in in a year or five years so we'll come back to you for another event to see how progress is being made. I want to thank you to the audience for tuning in from around the world. You can learn more about the firm's related initiatives on a mobility and transportation at weform.org and you can follow my covers of these topics at cyphernews.com. Thank you so much and have a great rest of your day or night. Thank you. Good night.