 You're welcome back to the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Now 30 years after General Mohamed Buhari was opposed as head of state in Nigeria, he was sworn in as Nigeria's fifth elected president on the 29th of May 2015. Now it was the first time in Nigeria's history that an opposition party defeated a ruling party at the polls and six years after President Mohamed Buhari's presidency in Nigeria were taking a look at just how far he has fared. You know, he came into the country as president with lots of challenges on his table. There was the 90 Delta Militancy, the Boko Ram Insurgency Economic Challenges as well, and we've invited Public Affairs Analyst, Mr Ladiko Johnson, to assess that with us. Good morning. Yes, you're welcome. So we've taken a look at just some of the key challenges Buhari was facing when he came into office, especially his drive for anti-corruption, Boko Ram, insurgents and all of that. Overall, before we begin to break it down to security, economics and all of that, overall, how would you rate President Mohamed Buhari's six years in office? Wow. Trying not to be cynical, trying to be as constructive as possible. I would say that he's had better days and at the moment we're probably around what I'll call, I won't say an F9, but I'll say maybe an E or something. I'm trying, I'm DE at the moment if we're looking at a grading system. Unfortunately, there's been lots of activities, but unfortunately the feel-good factor is not there. Nigerians are despondent at the moment, and of course we all know the insecurity challenges we face and the economic situation we find ourselves in, including the strength or lack of strength of the Nigerian Naira. So these difficult times may be made worse slightly by the COVID pandemic, like with most countries as well, but it shows that we were not prepared before that happened. So by and large, as I said, we've had a lot of activities, some things going on in infrastructure and everything. I will not just give a blanket, no things are not working, but overall I don't think we're aware we could be at as a country. Let's bring in Mr. Ibrahim Oshinoa. Good morning. Thanks for joining us, sir. Good morning. You're welcome. Thank you. Good morning. All right. So we're having a discussion on the six years of President Mohamed Abouary and the current administration. Three days ago, Fermi Adishinal had put out a statement saying that the President had done very well in the last six years and says that Nigeria has, you know, Nigeria has of course been better, is better right now six years after the current administration. And the Nigerians will praise him after this. Do you agree with Fermi Adishinal there? Good morning, viewers. I would like to start by joining my point with Mr. Ladipo by saying that he has made very fierce statements. Fermi Adishinal, my good brother and a good friend, I would agree with him to some extent that a lot of factors needs to be considered in that statement. For instance, the security issue of this country has been emanating from 2003, from Boronosti, when the said leader of Boko Haram was killed. If you look at the trend when Jaradwara was there in the southeast, in the southeast south, the amnesty issue, I'm sure you are not aware of that, how Jaradwara tackled the amnesty issue, those are part of the security challenge that accumulated as nobody into World War One is facing right now. Talk about the era of Jonathan also. As of that time, I'm sure any time I'm in Abuja, I don't go to Gariki, I don't go to Sumbo, I don't go to Housi because you will be as extremely as watchful as a spy dog because you don't know where bomb is going to explode in the further capital territory. So it's a lot what Wari has done in terms of security. But you can take that from me that is we are in the last six years that it's hard for you to have any cogent security challenge in the federal capital or within the neighborhood within Abuja. But you can talk about the not east where Boko Haram has been, you know, grandeur, have their base and few territories of course have been captured and recaptured by our gallant military officers. So security challenge is not a one man business, it's not a Nigerian business, it's everywhere. Go to America, come to Britain, come to, most African countries are facing security challenges. Okay, most of them. If you look at the economy, you talk about the economy, the economy is doing well, the mirror is now nothing. Let's see with security for a minute, right? If you're saying inter-curity is everywhere, not just in Nigeria, does that provide any justification as to why we seem to be in a worse place than when President Muhammad Buhari became president in 2015? Let me tell you, we are not in the worst, we are not in the worst place. We need to appreciate our country. This country, don't forget that it's been, you know, piloted by a general who knows how combat looks like. You know, if you go to Ghana, the Assanti are raising some agitation. Right now, if you go to Mali, there is a takeover, a military takeover, there's slight civil war. If you go to Cameroon, there's a secessionist groups in the east of Cameroon, just our neighbor here. If you go to as many other that I can mention, if you go to many other countries, there are challenges. But what I believe that the president can do for us right now, that would downplay all this agitation, you know, marginalization and the rest, is to slightly or usually devolve power. Okay, see, we'll talk about solutions. Yeah, everybody. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Yes. Hold on. Hold on. We, of course, there was a national dialogue in 2014. The current administration, you know, didn't seem like they were keen on implementing some of the resolutions from 2014. There's talks of another one now. But, you know, before we get, you know, to that part, I want to bring in Ladiput Johnson here. Mr. Oshinoa, you have compared the security situation Nigeria is currently dealing with, with, you know, the same with other countries. And you said every country in the world, a lot of countries in the world, have their own security challenges. So I want Ladiput Johnson to respond to that. Is Nigeria's security situation pretty much same with the rest of the world until we shouldn't, you know, be so worried? No, we should be worried. I think Mr. Oshinoa has hit the nail on the head. We have, as commander-in-chief, someone who is general and has failed to adapt to the modern warfare we're facing. The military in the past, not just the six years, going further back, as he rightly said, has failed to adapt to the fact that this war, in quotes, is more to do with insurgency, you need more better intelligence, technology, and what have you. We haven't done that. We've got in an anti-corruption regime. We now have a situation where the unfortunate death of the chief of Amistad, he had raised the issue that we hadn't seen the weapons that had been paid for or were meant to have been paid for. So basically, yes, this challenge is around Africa, around the whole world. How have we adjusted to the challenges? That's the question. These things will come. It's the world. You have terrorism around the world. But how has this government adjusted to the problems we've had and what are the steps we're taking towards the future? Look at how long it took to even change the service chiefs and what have you. So when it comes to that, yes, he's a general, and I'll say rightly or wrongly, I think he's set in his old ways. But we haven't adjusted to what we're facing currently. And that's why you find, just as an example, a lot of villages and what have you, tell you that they can't give the army or the military information. Some of them have given information about suspected people in their society. And then the villages have been raised a few days or so after. So where you don't, where the people do not trust the service arms of government, then the people will not assist. He's right. Mr. Shinoh is right. It's not just the government's duty when it comes to security. But where we, the people, do not have confidence in maybe the police or the army or the DSS to say, oh, I suspect that man, and he just came into my town, then we will not support the services as we ought to. So basically, I think that we're lacking and we should be worried because when you start to look at the daily kidnappings, there's a fine, we don't even know whether this is insurgency, whether this is banditry, whether this is a business of kidnapping anymore. We don't know. So, Mr. Shinoh, earlier, Mr. Adipo Johnson said that he would score the Buhari administration between D to E and F9, you know, regarding the autism. Not F9, not F9. Between D and E and an E, you know, the Buhari's presidency. But looking at what's going on with the Southeast, you know, it wasn't as bad as it was. I mean, the way it is now wasn't as bad as before. So how would you, you know, score the president's handling of the insecurity challenges that have seemed to, you know, crop up in the Southeast and part of Nigeria? You know, people in the Southeast complain of, you know, militarization of the Southeast. You know, how iPop, ESN have been fingered in all the insecurity challenges here and there. But with the way the president is handling what's happening in the Southeast, do you think he could do better? Okay. Are you there? Yes. Please go ahead. Okay. I will start by, I'll be a little bit cautioned talking about the Southeast. I call on, to be honest with you, I call on my friends. I'm a realist. I'm a nationalist. I know the might of military. I remember when I was a student, you know, in the rest of decades ago, I was locked in Nagodi, when Babangida was there. I was locked. I was a student, you know, president. And for almost three months, I was in Nagodi prison. What do we do? Because we are addicting for school fees and we are protesting into the military arena. We were locked. He took a Mofemi Farano, directed by the late chief, Ben Faham, and he takes a lot of procedures. Let me tell my people in the Southeast, you need to play the national politics. If you are killing within your domain, growing public asset, killing policemen, killing military officers, killing your people, it would not, it would not help your agitation. The Southeasterners have the legitimate right under the UN Convention to determine their fate. They have the right to determine where they want to live, how they want to live, who they want to govern, or how they want to be governed. But it needs to be done in a decent and civilized manner. So, Mr. Ibrahim, Mr. Ibrahim, so I want to ask you here, I'm coming, please. You will say, I will ask me out why it is handling the streets. Yes, exactly. Why is investing in one of the biggest projects in the Southeastern? In the first mainland, it's investing billions of billions of dollars in road networking, in construction within the Southeast. Yes, you can be perfect. I am not perfect. The president is not perfect. You can expect him to put everybody in the Southeast in government. But you look at the trends of investment within the country. What is going on in the Southeast? What is going on in the South South? What is going on in the North East? What I would encourage the president to do is to please visit the South East for once. Take a tour of that region. I'm searching all. Engage them. Engage the leadership. Engage the traditional rulers. Meet with the governors. What is the issue? If you want to live in Nigeria, it shouldn't be by killing innocent people. Even the Hebrews. Mr. Sashino, I want to quickly... It is almost about 4.2%. Most of the investment is out of there. Even Ginoz Baja is out of that region. You've spoken about the president visiting the Southeast. It's not for this issue. Yeah, but just to quickly say that President Mamad Bahra isn't visited anywhere. So it's not going to be the first... The South Asian is not going to be taken as a special case that he should visit. There's been deaths of dozens and dozens and dozens of people across Nigeria in different occasions. The president is talking... They're talking now about him going to Ghana to talk about issues in Mali. 52 people died in Eboni over the weekend. It's on record. 100 or 200 people were kidnapped in Niger state a couple of days ago. It's in the news. The president hasn't visited any of these places. 87 people died in Bainui. Why am I asking you? Because you said, oh, you feel that president visited the Southeast. And I'm saying that it is not in his character. It's not in his nature. It's not part of his governance style to visit anywhere. So he shouldn't start with the Southeast. He should have been visiting a long time ago. Our conversation this morning is about assessing where we are as a country today. After six years, do Nigerians feel safer today than they did in 2014 or in 2015? Do they feel safer today than they did during Umar Mosa Yaratua's time? Because you said, oh, that the security situation has transcended all that while and that's where we are today now because it started from way back then. But six years is enough, I believe, Mr. Oshinoa, for any person as the managing director of any company. If you have had six years to be in office, don't you think that people should be asking you where the company is after six years of you being there? So before I go back to Mr. Ladipo-Jong, I want to ask you as a Nigerian, do you feel safer? Do you feel better as a Nigerian today than you did six years ago? Six years ago, I was planning on moving out of this country because most of my businesses and networking are in Abuja. So I was not safe six years ago. But today, I am safe in Abuja, not in the South. I didn't have any business to do in the South East. So if I'm living in the South East, I might tell you that I'm not safe. But within the Abuja Lagos, I am safe. Because if you consider, you know, where you want to put the question, I want to encourage us, this is our country, we have no other country. I want us to remember that. We have no other country to go. If we are not safe in this country, so where do I safe? Okay, so Mr. Ibrahim, Mr. Ibrahim, if, hold on, Mr. Ibrahim, can you hold on for a minute? Mr. Ibrahim, I need to ask you this question. There are 36 states in Nigeria. If you say you feel safe, Mr. Ibrahim, can you hear me? I said there are 36 states. All right, all right. No, I need to ask you this question. Can you hold on? There are 36 states in Nigeria. If you say you feel safe in Lagos and Abuja, what happens to the remaining states and the people who, the millions of people who live there? What do they do then? You can ask Mr. Adipo. And Mr. Adipo will tell you that he saved your quarrel and he's saving this thing. When over 57 people were killed in Alaska, President John did not go there. He's only the governor that handled the situation and he deployed the National Guard. I'm not saying the President, I'm not covering the President. He needs to move up, he needs to reach out to a lot of people. All right, a lot of people don't say the best person in Nigeria. If you ask Mr. Adipo now, he will tell you, okay, his routine is between maybe quarrel or go. If you go to Abenkuta now, you know, go straight now, people will tell you that they don't know what's going on in the South East. All right, hold on, Mr. Adipo. If you go to, for instance, he will tell you they don't know what's going on. So different people with different feelings. But for me, I am safe. This is my country, I have nowhere to go. But I will encourage the President to do more. I will encourage him to reach out. I will encourage him to engage. All right, great. Hold on, Mr. Adipo. You talk about that, but as an engineer, we need to stand nationalistic and provide solutions and support the government. Mr. Adipo, hold on. I want to bring in Adipo Johnson here. And then we can move away from security and talk about other aspects of governance. There's different other tactics or measures with which we rate a performing government. So you can quickly respond with regard security. I'm seeing a report here that shows that there's nowhere with regard status and security that is less than a medium. It's between medium, high risk and extreme across Nigeria today. So quickly respond security. And then let's move on to other aspects of governance. Well, unfortunately, we are where we are at because we all agreed that government inherited certain things. And you are voted in because there are certain issues. You are voted in to sort problems out. And six years down the line, you can't keep relying on the fact that when we came in, this was the situation. Unfortunately, with the South East, there was agitation. So what you should have done ab initio from the word go was to engage with stakeholders in the South East. You've had several opportunities, apart from the ministerial slots or whatever, you've had, like in the army or things like that, you had several opportunities to show the South Easterners that, look, you belong in Nigeria. But these were not, these opportunities were not taken. And you're still appointed maybe Fulani people or what have you. So the body language, which is what he used when he came in or his people, his handlers use, the body language of Mr. President, unfortunately, to most onlookers and most other tribes in the country is that go to hell. You understand? I mean, I'm doing what I want to do. But you have to love Nigeria. But you see, it's a two-way thing. People, we tell people that you have a duty to your country, but your country also has some form of duty towards you. And unfortunately, that is not there at the moment. So by and large, when we talk about insecurity, there's no need to argue. It's there every day. But the time we finish the show, if we look at the news, you might discover that someone was kidnapped somewhere, some part of Nigeria yesterday night or this morning. So we know that that is a situation. Enough isn't being done. They need, I don't know what the integration is with the army, the police and what have you. These things are just not working. And we're playing catch-up with the bandits, with the kidnappers, with the insurgents as well. Quickly speak on the economy and the fight against corruption. The fight against corruption, unfortunately, is that has gone out of the window. Because most people, when you look at the corruption index, which they say that the government says, oh, ignore it. When the news is good, yes, we've done this. When it isn't good, you say it's a foreign influence or what have you. The feel of the people in the country is that things, the main thing we voted for you for hasn't been achieved. We do not feel, unfortunately, we do not feel that this government is less corrupt than past, our previous governments, which is a shame. Because that is what you came in upon, you understand? And the fact that, and people tend to just, I don't know, he's such a lucky man. That's President Buhari. Because people tend to keep protecting him and protect. When things are good, oh, Buhari has done well. When things are not good is the people surrounding him. No, the box stops at his table. Okay, let me bring in Mr. Ibrahim. Mr. Ibrahim, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Okay, when Buhari was campaigning for presidents in 2015, he said he was going to fight corruption. But the recent report by Transparency International shows that Nigeria is the second most corrupt country in West Africa, and we are ranked 149 out of 180 countries. So what does this say really about President Mohamed Buhari's presidency and fight against corruption? We'll just still say that he's doing well. I'm a very realist, and I look at the figure, I look at the statistics to base my judgment. When it comes to anti-corruption crusade, is you can branch it into three. The giver, the taker, and the catcher. The catcher here, the giver right now are the people who offer bribes, who have intention to loot. I can tell you that those loans are turned to zero. A major ministry agency right now, you will, before you feel that you want to do anything fraudulent, you have to think otherwise. You cannot give like in other governments. Now, the giver are very, very cautious. In risk management, we know that the risk level, the corruption risk level at this time is very low. There is no giver right now. It's very rare for you to see a fresh case of corruption. Like maybe in 2015, where you just curiously, I want to remind you of a fresh case of corruption. Mr. Ibrahim, I wanted to remind you of a fresh case of corruption. Look at what they've done. Mr. Ibrahim, can you hear me? Mr. Ibrahim, can you hear me? I said, you said there's been no fresh case of corruption. I wanted to remind you of some. The COVID-19 palliatives that were meant to be distributed to Nigerians, we know that that matter really is still pending right now. About millions of Naira that was allegedly looted, COVID-19 palliatives that were hidden in warehouses, those are pretty recent. Do you think President Buhari's administration did a great job in ensuring that corruption really didn't work out in those cases? You know, when you are talking about President Buhari, why don't you talk about the state governments? The President Buhari is not just only, if you go ahead, you have the president, you have the president, you have the governor, you have the national assembly. So many national assembly members were giving palliatives, they stole it in the warehouse. So many governors were giving palliatives, they stole it in the warehouse. Even some special advisors and commissioners were giving palliatives to share to their people. Is that President Buhari that will come and share that? Well, Mr. Alshinoa, just as you know, if you are talking about palliatives, you must not be aware about one, because I'm part of the state committee. Mr. Alshinoa, Mr. Alshinoa, can you hold on? Can you hold on because we're run out of time. You can't lock this down. Great. Mr. Alshinoa, just as you know, and I know, and Aneta knows, and Mr. Alalipo knows, I'm sure President Muhammad Buhari knows, we wouldn't prosecute those people that you've claimed, that you know, locked up these things and stole these items. But the President knows, the anti-corruption agencies know. So the fact that they haven't acted, even when you know, and I know, and we all know, and they still haven't acted, it tells a story about where we are with regards to fighting corruption, I believe. I want us to quickly... Can you give me the statistics of what the EFCC, what Bawa is doing right now in terms of prosecution? Bawa has been prosecuting a lot of cases within a two-month-diazum office, but he doesn't go on a media wall. So what I expect him to do is to write to the agency and seek for further clarification on fresh cases that are going on. If you look at the former EFCC boss, he is a media guy. He loves to showcase what he's doing, but Bawa is a cop professional. He was groomed from a cadet to where he is right now. So he believes that his job must be for him. You understand? So I want you to do a lot of thorough investigation. Look at the former governor of Kuala state. After so many investigations, he has been arrested. All right. Ms. Lashinoa, we have about two minutes left. And that's where I'm coming from. Absolutely. We have about two minutes left. So I would like to put Johnson to quickly speak if you have one minute on... Then we can talk about the economy. The economy, inflation rates, 259 percent, currently 18.12 percent on employment, 8 percent in 2015, 33.2 percent now. That profile, 12 trillion, now 32 trillion. It's a lot of figures that don't look good. So quickly in one minute, just let us know your... Well, in one minute, the Naira is almost at... 490. Almost at 500 to the dollar, almost at 700 to the pound. We locked our borders, forgetting. We say we didn't want them to bring in rice, forgetting that we have a lot of Nigerian businessmen who trade across Africa. We did this even just after signing the African free trade agreement. Really doesn't make any sense. So I hope, he's midterm now in his second term. This is the midterm report. He has some two years to go and they can still begin to try to turn things around, especially with the economy. They might be fortunate. You know, we always have a general we can rely on and that is the price of oil. It might go up and get things better. But basically speaking, we're in different places and the economy is not going in the direction it should. Okay, let me quickly bring in Mr. Ibrahim Oshinoh. I want you to speak on infrastructure development, healthcare, education. How your rates, President Muhammadu Buhari, please. On infrastructure, I rate President Buhari over 100. I rate him 65%. In terms of transport, road networking, you can do it. HTS is just a very small time. I expect the next president to take care. In terms of health system in this country, of course, the health management system is just a 20 over 100. But with the COVID and the response to COVID-19, I think I will rate both the state government and the federal government at least 70% because we have a very limited, you know, a debt rate in this country. I think the president is still working and I give it to Governor and Minister Fashola. He's doing all he could to ensure that the road networking and the contractors on site are doing and working their time. So I give it to them. If you look at the Southwest now, Lagos Ibanu Express Road has been there for so many, many years. From Obasanjo to Yaradua, from Yaradua to Baikotni, from Baikotni to Bujunatan, from Junatan now to Buhari. And of course, you are not applied that road. It's almost about 70% or more completed. Though the job pace is slow right now, but I think they can do better. If you look at the rail system, where Minister Meshio also networking, of course, doing his best in terms of infrastructure linkage. If you look at the East West Road, I think I was in Kodakot and I applied that road. I was so amazed and I was so happy with what they are doing there right now. You know, look at different corridors from the north central to, you know, go to the south of them. But by and large, I will call the president to please listen to the voice of people. The national dialogue is necessary at this time. I am for a brand new constitution. I don't believe in the constitution we have right now. The constitution that was test on a fraudulent test with the people. This constitution is not by us. It's by this seven-month military supreme council that started one room and wrote this constitution for us. This constitution does not tailor to the reality of our system and is distant right now. So the president, I'm encouraging, should seek a national dialogue. Should let us have devolution of power. Let us give power to the leaders. Let us give power to the president. Let us listen to other regions that are dictating for one or two or the other. You can't do everything for them, but you can passify them as a father of the nation. You can do more. And I encourage all the cabinet as well to please listen to the voice. You know, the NERA is so shameful where we are going right now. We are depending the nation. Thank you very much. And we are looking at borders. I raised my voice that time. That the minister, Rafiq Alec Bershola, cannot lock the border for that long. We are not thinking of anything. Brian Moshenowal, I think your point has been beautifully made. Thank you very much. Thank you. For speaking with us this morning. Always interesting hearing your perspective. And thank you to Mr. Ladikor Johnson for always honoring us with your time and thoughts on the breakfast. Thank you very much. Thanks. Okay, so yes, here's where we draw the curtains on the conversation on assessing President Muhammad Buhari's sixth year in office. For now, the conversation would obviously continue as we approach the 2023 elections and beyond. But right now we'll take a break to return to discuss more about that very terrible market fire that raised the Ladikor market on Sunday.