 Hi, everybody. Can you hear me? Okay. Alright, thanks for coming to Back to the Future of Search. To kick things off, I thought a bit of a background in me. Just so you'll get the two-second overview of who you're listening to and who's rabbiting on about this techno bubble. I'm an SEO specialist. I'm one of Australia's leading SEO co-operators and trainers. I've been involved in the web since 1999-2000. So I'm nearly going on 20 years now. Digital producer. My claim to fame, if I can indulge in the term, is that I produced Australia's first ever streaming film and music website. So nowadays, of course, we don't bat an eye about watching streaming media on our computer. August 14, 2000, sponsored exclusively by Apple. Indiefilmweb.com was a site that we launched, which had the very first live streaming. In another life, I'm a professional novelist and screenwriter, repped out of Hollywood by one of the big three agencies. And go back further in time, I was a professional film actor. Six features, co-starring in three opposite folks like Ray Liotta, Lance Hendrickson, Ernie Hudson, Julia McMahon, etc. But I've been involved in SEO and the web for, like I said, 18 odd years. And for the last six years, I've been running SEO North Sydney. Now, a bit of an overview. To kick off, we have a bit of context. This is where I want to take you back to the early days of the World Wide Web so we can have a framework for what comes later. So we'll fire up the DeLorean to 88 miles per hour and take us back to a time before this time. Then we'll get into the serious stuff, which is the takeaways, which is what you really want, okay? And from there, time permitting, we'll get into Q&A. I apologize in advance if we run a little bit late. I normally speak for one whole day or two whole days on this topic, so we've done our best to compress within the time frame that we've got. Before we do kick off though, can I just have a bit of a gauge of the room? Can I have a show of hands, people who are business owners or who run their own website for profit? Okay, it's terrific. And how many people here are designers or coders or in some way involved? Great. And how many people turned up for the free food? All right, that was me. Okay, so now let's kick off by firing up the DeLorean to 88 miles per hour to go back not to 1955 like Marty McFly, but to a time far more interesting to us, to the early 1990s. Now, for the millennials in the audience, I had a very strong desire to dance during this period, pulling some MC Hammer pens. But my fiancee said she would leave me if I did, so I'm going to try and stay still. Now, these, believe it or not, millennials were motion pictures of the era. I loved that movie. All right. Now, as you can see, it was a different time. Now, let's end this digital shenanigans before the millennials in the audience go into a musically induced coma and start bleeding from the... Well, the music's far more interesting than me. Just run with that. Okay, so we're going to go back to the early days of search. Okay, to the early 90s when a website looked like this. Now, look at this beauty. What do we notice about this website? Okay, there's nothing much to it. It was and is a thing of beauty because of its simplicity. Why did this website exist? This is the Sydney University website circa maybe about 93, give or take. Now, what we notice with this is that the website exists for a very simple reason. And that reason was to display quality content so that other people interested in that quality content could access it remotely from across the city, across the state, across the country, across the world. Okay, imagine that as a concept. Building a website purely so that great information on a particular topic, quality information, could be peer reviewed by somebody else. Now, the reason I've particularly chosen this website is that in the early days, as I'm sure we all know, for those of us old enough, in the early days of the World Wide Web, websites were primarily, though not exclusively, the domain of universities. It literally was universities, academics, publishing content so that other academics could read it, peer review it. Okay, and then of course, business gets involved. When business gets involved, everything turns south, and everything turns south because of search engines. So in this example, search engines become the evil of the age. Okay, which is ironic given around an SEL company. But the one thing I love about this site as well, you probably can't see it from back there, I'll zoom in a bit. How about that? In case you can't find what you need, if you're sort of looking at yellow pages, imagine that on your website today. Actually imagine anybody using yellow pages today. It's not going to happen. Now, how to rank your website pre-Google? This is where as soon as search engines got involved, what happened was indexing happened. So there was a lot of content, and search engines, early search engines, the Archies, the web crawlers, the InfoSeqs, et cetera, the Excites, they started indexing the web and sorting it. When you do a taxonomy, you drill down, you find information, and then you re-sort the information into lists. As soon as lists became involved, somebody went above somebody else. And as soon as somebody went above somebody else, somebody got grumpy. Okay, so when that happened, when commerce started to come into the web, not that we knew... Back then we knew that there was gold in them and our hills. We didn't know what the gold was, and we didn't know how to get it, but we knew for damn sure that we didn't want somebody else to get there first. So when search engines, early search engines, came into it, we used a lot of nefarious tricks to try to rank. I'm going to zoom through these because we've got a lot of slides, so I apologize for powering through. Keyword stuffing, cloaking, hidden text, and my favorite, popular slash rude words. Now, keyword stuffing, obvious. Use the word a lot of times. The more keywords you have on your page, the better you would have theoretically ranked. Cloaking is a trick whereby you have two versions of your website, one that the bots read and one that humans read, okay? Hidden text. Ordinarily, you'd have a text with black content, or content in a black color. What we see here, we're obviously showing it for you guys, but hidden text was huge. So everybody knew, oh, we need more keywords. We need more keywords. So what they did, they would hide the keywords by having white text on a white background, which allowed you to have a truckload of keywords on your website that didn't annoy people by just being there in front. However, many websites had this. This is a made-up example, right? But the idea behind this was, if you say you sold pens in Sydney, okay? Maybe 2,000 people a month search for, you know, pens in Sydney, blue pens in Sydney, but how many people search for sex or for porn terms? Okay, for adult terms, right? A huge amount of numbers. So the idea was, they would have, in what we would know as designers, you know, to class as the footer, they would have a huge sway of adult terms, one after the other after the other, which had nothing to do with the product you're selling. Okay, but the idea was, more traffic is searching for that, so we'll bring that traffic to our website, even though we look at that and go, well, it's not relevant traffic, it's pointless, but, again, they didn't know what they were doing. So if you look at this one, you can see the name Alyssa Milano stuck in, right? Everybody probably remembers Alyssa Milano from who's the boss I think it was, and Charm, she's an actress, talented, you know, pretty Hollywood actress. For some reason, in the late 90s, early 90s, her name became synonymous with this style of SEO. So you would have pontin, pontin, pontin, Alyssa Milano, pontin, pontin, pontin, Alyssa Milano. Never knew why, and the poor girl must have suffered, you know, enormously because of it. Now let's go back to the future so we can see how that applies to us today. Right, let's have a look at the digital landscape as we know it. Again, I will be zooming through these so we can get to the takeaways. We understand the landscape is split into three primarily, search engine optimization, which is organically, being found organically. SEM, which is the paid stuff, such as Google pay-per-click retargeting, geofencing, and the like. However, it's not paid links. Don't mistake SEM for being paid links, okay? Against Google's guidelines, don't do it. SMO is social media optimization where we use Web 2.0 platforms to get traffic. For those who don't necessarily know the difference between Web 1.0 and Web 2.0, most of the web is 1.0. So 1.0 primarily was, this is our website, come to our website and view our content, right? In 2004-5 when the MySpace is in the Facebooks and the like started to kick off, they changed the paradigm, so hence the new name, and a Web 2.0 is viewed as, this is our website, come to our website, but guess what? You can add content. Before that, we wouldn't want to do that. I run my own website. I don't want you writing on my website. I don't even know who you are, what you're going to say, are you going to post crap, is it relevant, et cetera. Free content was the Web 2.0 major device. Global search volumes. We all understand that to rank your website, you need to rank in Google, okay? This should be reasonably self-explanatory for people in the Western world. In Australia, as you can see, 94% of people search using Google. Disproportionate amount, okay? In most of the Western world, it's like that. Okay? Like in China, like Baidu is by far the biggest in Russia, Yandex, et cetera. But an interesting stat that I thought when I was putting this together, look at the USA. Google's market share has dropped to 63%. Now that really surprised me because it was like 90 or something. How did it drop? What are Bing doing well? Or better than Google, okay? Not much that I can see, but the numbers are real, the numbers don't lie. No, we've got to rank in Google and we've got to get on the first page if we want to be found. We want to get traffic to our website. Now, there's an old gag in SEO that we have is where's the best place to hide a body? On page two of Google. Why? Because no one's ever going to find it. Be honest now. But what numbers are there? Page one gets 91.5% of the search traffic organically, page two 4.8 and 1.1 and so on further down, right? The logic, obviously, is if you're not on page one you are invisible. However, because of the changes to our digital landscape, just being on page one, it isn't enough anymore. Time was it was, okay? Your business could grow by being on page one but how page one is now laid out with the new layout that Google has with the Google ads at the top and the Google Map three pack and sometimes the knowledge graph and various other things coming before the organics where you come on first page is far more important now than ever before. Look at that. 32.5% of people click on the first organic search. 17.6% on the second, 11.4% on the third. Think about the numbers. 61.5% of all organic traffic is in the top three. Okay? You want the phone to ring? Your SEO company needs to get you. Getting on the first page is great. That's the first battle. Getting above the fold. Fold being what we class as top five. Third battle is top three and of course, SERP one. Now, when I use the word SERP an acronym I'm sure you probably all heard, S-E-R-P, traditionally meant for search engine ranking page. So if you're on the third page of Google you will SERP three but colloquially used by SEO companies and SEO practitioners to meaning search engine ranking position. So if you're one in Google, you'll SERP one. If you're second on page two, you'll SERP 12. It's just an easier way to work out where you are. Okay? So getting on the first page is important but where you rank is stupendously important. The thing with organic search as opposed to paid search, S-E-M, is the paid search is pretty black and white. It's mathematics. If I pay $10 a click and my competitor is paying $9.50 a click I will always rank above him. Unless he ups his bid which of course he will because he doesn't want to be second. But the great thing with us is that organic search is part mathematics and part alchemy. Okay? There's so many things going into it and that's because the mathematical part of it is made up by algorithms which we all obviously know but how many? Okay? There are a lot of algorithms. I'm not going to have time to run through these like I would ordinarily when talking of this but a quick overview. Page rank, Penguin, Panda, Hummingbird and Pigeon. Now page rank was the elephant in the room for nearly 20 years. Page rank was created by Larry Page who with Sergey Brin are the two co-founders of Google. It's a play on his name, Page Rank but it ranks pages from 0 to 10. Up until 2011 page rank was updated every three months, regular clockwork. Since then it's been absorbed into the core algorithm, Google's core algorithm so we don't know what page rank a website has. It's still relevant. People say ignore Google, page rank it's dead. It's not dead. Links are powered by page rank continually. They're still important. We just can't measure it anymore. So the idea was that Google couldn't read your content like a human being. So what it did, it had a voting system by links. So the more links you have coming to your page the better the content on that page must be. So if website A links to a page on website B it's a tacit endorsement of the content on website B. Why says Google would somebody link to a page as rubbish? Well they wouldn't, would they? Obviously, duh. So if they're linking it's a thumbs up to the content. Except that SEO companies and affiliate marketers and the like raped and pillaged the algorithm which was and still is full of holes. Now Penguin is tied into link building. I talk about Penguin a bit later so I won't dwell too much. But ultimately Penguin was created to stop unnatural or toxic quote unquote links. Links that aren't real or at least in Google's terms aren't perceived to be real. There's a lot of other things that it does but primarily it's to stop toxic link building. This is a quick example of toxic links from a client of mine. When they signed up with me in 2013 they were penalized by Penguin so badly you couldn't even type in their name. So what they'd done is they'd gone and outsourced to an agency in Melbourne who unbeknownst to them as many big agencies do outsourced to India or to the Ukraine or Russia or wherever the hell else they go and make these dodgy links. And they had all these links and Google caught them with their hand in the cookie jar and they got punished, not their company. The company got booted. These are the guys that suffered and you couldn't even type their name. And you can see back then, look at the last two. Terrorist jobs, mail enhancement reviews. What's that got to do with a company that sells windows and doors and aluminium windows and the like? Nothing. Today you type windows Sydney or aluminium windows Sydney or any number of other searches. They're Serp 1. Back then they weren't even Serp 1,000. Panda which again I'll talk a bit about later but panda is hugely important. And ultimately it's all about quality content. Panda was created by a guy called Navneet Panda who's a software engineering guru for Google. His remit, him and his team, their remit in the early part of 2010-11 was to create an algorithm that can read a page like a human being. That's what they did. And when Panda launched in 2011-12 it changed everything about your website. So this is stupendously important. Quality content is self-evident but it bears repeating and repetition is the mother of learning but quality content is the foundation that all of our SEO should be based on. Hummingbird, this is another big, big, big one. Hummingbird is an indexing algorithm that runs search queries through a synonym and modification module. What does that mean? It's techno babble. All it ultimately means is that Hummingbird discovered that 60% of all search is long tail. Not trophy phrases like SEO Sydney what I want where I want it but longer tail searches and using multiple words often in ways that had never been typed before, hard to believe. So what Hummingbird does it reads between the sense of the question which was never, no algorithm could do before. What you've got is an algorithm that can, if you type in SEO Sydney what I want where I want it. That's what you do to type me to find my company. What I want where I want it but lo and behold, what if somebody types how do I get my small business website on the first page of Google? I haven't typed the word SEO. I haven't typed the location in Sydney but Hummingbird now reads between the words the sense of the question and it says who gets businesses on the first page of Google? SEO companies, he's looking for an SEO company but where? You haven't typed in a location so it'll ping the device you're using and go ah, you're on your iPad in Gloria Jeans in North Sydney you're looking for an SEO company close to you but I haven't used any of the keywords. Pigeon, another one, we'll talk about local a bit later. Very important, this is all about Google is trying its best to rank local business locally. So if you're in Manly and you're looking for a kitchen company close to Manly or on the northern beaches Google wants to show kitchen companies in the northern beaches or in Manly they don't want to show companies in Penrith that service the northern beaches or service Manly. Google pigeon ties in with other local algorithms such as Hawk and a whole bunch of others there are several of them but they do much of the same thing. But we'll talk about local in a bit. Now, these are the takeaways. The top 10 things that you need to rank your website. What you need to focus on. Number one, website security. Now when I talk about this because we have an audience with a lot of WordPress aficionados of course I'm not talking about oh I don't want my site to be hacked of course you don't want your site to be hacked I'm talking about HTTPS. Now for those who don't know HTTPS of course is higher text transfer protocol. Most websites are you know HTTP colon, 4sats, 4sats, www.yourdomain. Google is now bullying everybody to move to HTTPS so higher text transfer protocol secure. HTTPS was created for e-commerce websites so that if you collect credit card information you've got to have 128 bit encryption to make sure no one can nick it and go on a spending spree. Terrific, we love that. Well done Google. But Google is now bullying everybody to do it for normal websites. Just because what I gather an email from someone or a business name if you don't have it you need it. Now there are ways to get this and you need what's called an SSL certificate. Now a secure socket layer certificate they can cost anything from a couple of hundred bucks and up. But if you're serious about it get yourself an EV SSL certificate an extended validation SSL. What you're looking at the top one these are just random examples that's what it looks like in the search bar now if you don't have an SSL certificate. Now that tells Google that you're unsecure the information you gather is unsecure not to be trusted you will be downgraded in Google search. The middle one is a standard the Mr. Switch one is just a standard SSL certificate the cheaper variety get that if that's what you can afford it's fine better than nothing good to have but the bottom one the COM bank is what's known as an EV SSL that's maybe about a grand a year you can get them a bit cheaper depending where you get it okay if you're serious about this go be EV. Number nine website designing UX I'm not going to dwell too much on this because you've seen many terrific presenters talking about design doing the last two days okay and I don't want to go over ground that you've already covered but ultimately your website design and the UX the user experience is of paramount importance to how Google reads the analytical information it gathers on the human interactions with your website okay so if somebody comes to your website in this day for 30 seconds and they search for exactly what the page is about they didn't click anything they weren't that interested if they stay for three and a half minutes and then they go to four other pages and they stay for seven and a half minutes on your website these are all quality signals and a lot of that internally is driven by your website design click through rate is important and click through rate is important not only for somebody to click on your listing on a Google search but internally so if they go for one page to another because you've got great UX okay this helps drive traffic keep people in your website and on your pages for longer okay ultimately in designers we always know keep it simple stupid right make it a great website that loads quickly and the users can work out how to use your website in eight seconds without having to waste their time number eight brand mentions the social signals brand mentions are huge and they're getting ridiculously important as time moves on I wouldn't be surprised in five years if this is in the top three brand mentions are broken down into four forms social media mentions customer reviews branded search and web mentions social media obviously somebody retweets you or mentions you on the Facebook page that can be read by Google not a personal one which only your friends can read customer reviews good customer reviews obviously terrific to have knowing you're as important as they should be but important nonetheless and will become more important when Google works out branding branded searches when somebody types your name and web mentions you know you can mention in a blog or some other form okay but what you don't realize or many people don't realize is that when you get a branded mention you often get a link but if you don't get a link it's still an inferred link or an implied link Google understands that the words that surround your brand even if they haven't hyperlinked is where it's going to be okay so local search is assuming through this because of the timing local search is ultimately it's about NAP name address and phone number make sure your Google Maps listing marries 100% with your website so if your address on Google Maps is 34 John Street Paramata don't have on your website unit 4 slash 34 John Street Paramata make it match once you've done that rinse and repeat in other citation sites such as yellow pages Yelp true local etc now voice search my goodness we could spend a whole topic on this but I won't because it's not that important even though 20% of search can you believe that 20% of search is done in voice it's ridiculous but most of these searches are people asking Google home excuse me can you tell me what the capital of Argentina is Google right it's nothing that we as business people can leverage okay but we need to have content that answers the why of the questions as opposed to just goes and focus on key words mobile friendliness obviously stupidity important once again Google has rolled out the mobile first index up until now you've not necessarily realized that your website was being copied onto an index on a thousand servers and a thousand edge servers around the world by Google so when you search you're not searching online you're searching on a copy of the worldwide web on Google servers okay previously for the first 20 years of their existence they used to index the desktop version of your website now from like literally March they are now going to index your mobile version first and more frequently and your desktop far less so if you want to rank you'll have different rankings for mobile and for your desktop and Google gives more importance now to the mobile environment right 57% of people okay search on a mobile device website speed again look at Google's own studies have shown that if your website learns in six seconds as opposed to one your bounce rate goes up 106 seconds so design a website that loads every page loads in no more than two seconds I can't tell you how important this is many designers in the room we all understand this make it load quickly and if you've got a thousand lines of code to show your website as you wanted to see and you can do that in 500 lines of code use 500 lines of code make it load fast three rank brain rank brain is the state of the art machine learning system that utilizes artificial intelligence to interpret and improve new searches now what does that mean basically it means that it looks at new searches which is about 60% of searches it looks at new searches that has never come across before and says look I don't quite understand what this means but based on my previous understanding of searches around this topic I think you're meaning this so I'll show you this answer even though 60% of searches this never heard of before okay this didn't exist before 2015 we'd never heard of it until Google announced it links doesn't surprise anyone that this is still important okay remember the hierarchy of links not all links to created equal at the bottom of the pyramid you've got the .coms the .net the .co.uk the .in the .whatever okay things that are not Australian on the second level we've got .com that I use and .net that I use a link from a local Australian site is far more important in Google's eyes because anyone can get a .com but I've got to have an ABN to get a .com that are you or a .net that are you okay much more important if you have an Australian link than that higher up you've got the .net .edu's .net that I use which is stupidly hard to get and above that you've got the .gov .au's if you've got a government link it's worth a thousand other links and last but by no means least original well-written long-form quality content the single most important thing because it's the one thing you can control and imagine you know 30 you've got 30 years of experience you run a kitchen company right you've got 30 years of experience but on your website you've got like 7 pages and a couple of hundred words Google is not psychic it doesn't understand that you've got 30 years of knowledge that knowledge has to be expressed professionally and through a really in-depth IA information architecture it has to be spread out so Google knows that you know everything there is to know about making kitchens because if it's not there Google isn't psychic one last slide to give you a quick couple take ten takeaways for Panda does your article really like it was written by an expert does it have a minimum of 500 words Yoast tells you 250 words don't believe it SEO companies know and statistics have proven this that to rank first in organic search you need 1750 to 2500 words per page two and a half thousand words an enormous amount of words and you say people don't read that much Google reads that much is the content 100% original of your spun it does it have grammatical spelling errors just basic year ten stuff dot the i's and cross the t's does it offer any new insights into the subject or just regurgitating what's been said a thousand times before does it discuss the topic fairly very important to do that the pros and the cons the article on a recognized authority in the field are you an authority site you'll only get that over time or are you just a random blog talking about whatever is the article good enough to like tweet or bookmark again comes under quality is the article well enough written that you could rightfully expect to see it in a publication or some kind of print book these are Google's words by the way not mine and lastly does the article have pictures and or videos as well as words because 90% of Panda is about the words 10% is about the other stuff the multimedia experience do you have a lot of annoying ads pop up do you have video do you have audio do you have pictures do you other people learn different ways okay so 10% of it is that is the design and the multimedia 90% of it is the words and lastly the last slide I will leave you is Warren Buffett why Warren Buffett well Warren Buffett is one of the world's most successful investors as we know and as of two days ago when when Facebook plummeted by 161 million he's gone from the sixth most rich man in the world to the third okay he understands as we need to understand that the long game is the only game worth playing so he invests his strategy because he sees his business there in the long term he invests in the Microsoft's in the Woolworth's in the Apple's in the IBM's the long game is the only game worth playing so if your SEO company is promising you oh my god I can fix it all I get you on the first page you'll be number one tomorrow I guarantee it go right walk away right none of us own Google it's a process it'll take three months minimum for you to get any real love from Google and if you're in really competitive search six to twelve months that's the reality bed batten down the hatches and get the budget prepared for that because if you want to own your business niche and you want your business to be there in five years ten years you've got a plan for the long strategy the long game and not go for the quick wins because anything that goes up quickly will come down quickly thank you question and answers if we have any time thank you I think we've got about ten ish minutes for questions so anyone who has any questions yep there's one over there just like a comment as well like with that cloudflare SSL you can get it for free but it doesn't do into an encryption unless you get the business plan or something so yeah just maybe compare the EV SSL with cloudflare and maybe let's encrypt there's a mods blog on it as well if you google it so again sorry have you used cloudflare before no I haven't actually it gives you like a free SSL from cloudflare's edge to your users but it doesn't encrypt from cloudflare to your origin server that's the issue I guess my comment on that would be without knowing that particular kind of platform I would say that you get what you pay for and if I like if I'm serious about an SSL certificate I'll buy it from a reputable source and if I've got the coin I'll get an EV you can get those for $4.50 but you can be up to $1,000 but the bottom line is yes you need an SSL we understand where you get it from but if you're in that middle bracket of what sort of SSL I don't think it's going to matter too much it's just better to have something than nothing but if you want to go the extra mile and this is just one facet of a much broader picture because google has over 200 ranking signals and over 10,000 sub-ranking signals but as I always say it's like they're making dinner and they're making soup and some of the ingredients are really important like the meat and some of them are just like oregano or something on top they're all in the soup but I really need to focus on this SSL is one of the top 10 now so that's definitely something to focus on and just another thing I've noticed if you go to Apple.com it actually has their company in the green bit of the HTTPS whereas if you go to any other HTTPS site it'll be like just secure in green so maybe that's part of EV I haven't used EV before well I'd say that in Apple I'm not short of coin so I suspect they've got an EV just any bank or financial institution or any quote-unquote real company as in by large multi-million dollar company instantly go for that because it's in the grand scheme of it what's a grand to them Facebook doesn't have EV yeah Facebook's a lord of themselves maybe they wouldn't have lost 161 billion if they were more secure alright thank you you said that RankBrain uses AI to interpret new searches new searches yeah do you have strategies you could use to leverage that I guess could you go into some detail sorry strategies for RankBrain ties into like most of the strategies into content production so what you're trying to do with RankBrain RankBrain ultimately is trying to work out we've got all these new questions and we've never heard them before but we can compare similar searches in the past that we've had these results to and the human metrics from these results are someone who's followed that link and gone to a website and stayed on the website a long time and gone to multiple pages so we know that the human experience has been good when we've answered this question like this so all RankBrain is doing is trying to look at things look at content sideways okay so horizontally as opposed to vertically so from a strategy perspective I always say try to work at the intent of the question not just the keywords forget keywords they're not dead but I mean I have a blog on this but they're dying okay if they were made up a made up number but if they were worth 100 out of 100 prepander now they're worth 15 right eventually they'll be worth 5 and one of my pet gripes with SEO companies is the biggest con in SEO is you know this package comes with 10 keywords this package comes with 20 keywords which are like 20 it's so much better I hate it and we get so many clients that say well how many keywords do we get you got unlimited keywords it's not about the keywords it's about the content I can have 50 keywords in a page I wouldn't but I could have 50 keywords driving a page right it's not about the keywords that's just how SEO companies sell their ways they use car salesman in Parramatta Road not all of them obviously unless you want to buy a car then talk to me afterwards but by and large is a so it's an industry of street corner mountain banks to put it mildly got time for one more yes hi my question is related to the social media like facebook snapchat instagram like they're like big in the market of getting customers onto your website as well so the biggest problem is you could have spent like some money on each platform as well as on google like and sometimes they go hand in hand and sometimes it's like really hard for the customers who are like small business owners and it's kind of becomes unfair for the people who just want to start their business as compared to have really big people in the market already like what is the trick around that but that's a great question because social media is the big con if you've got a finite amount of dollars to spend if 85 to 90% of people click on the organic search and one to one and a half 10 to 15% click on the page on the paper click ads you put your money take the boat to where the fish are and drop a big net don't try to get the fish to come to you social media is a great way of getting likes look at me I'm so popular and then you're going out of business I'd rather put my money in organic search which is quantifiable and in paper click or retargeting or some other form of paid advertising where I can measure it when it's all about results on my bottom line not about warm fuzzies oh my god I've got you know 74 likes today aren't I wonderful let me just go down the dole right because I've gone out of business right it's not about that so if you've got a finite amount of money prioritise organic search right is where the the largest share is paid search very good and works brilliantly in some and in other areas it's like a bottomless pit social media is the other end in some industries it's huge fashion etc right there's certain industries that you can kind of invert to a degree right especially if you're in e-commerce you might want to do a lot of the paid stuff but ultimately if you're a small business spend the money where it will do you the most good and social isn't going to be that to start with okay alright thank you pleasure well thank you very much Brian can I have a round of applause thank you