 People who want to get into entrepreneurship and they, they find it difficult to incorporate their own value systems. I mean, you mentioned sustainability and one of the pernicious things about sustainability is the people, it has as many definitions as there are people who know what sustainability is sort of. And there's, there's, there's sometimes people find it difficult to grasp at anything real or anything that you can incorporate into a business model or a company. How did you go about finding that identity and actually tied to something real that you can make a difference in, in the world? Um, I, I don't know. I think that when we started, both Tony and I were like, again, because we've been friends for a long time, we, there was a, there was a reason we just said like, you know, kind of like, fuck it, we're going to put our own personal values into this company. And instead of having corporate values, because I haven't seen any set of corporate values that I find interesting. They're all just like, you know, like keywords and it's like, they don't mean anything. So if we put human values into the company and we speak about those human values, that's going to resonate with people because people are humans. They don't want to talk to a logo. They want to actually talk to other humans. So, um, you know, we have, we just did what we think was right. And that made it an interesting company. And then there's that whole self-critical thing. I think if you're an entrepreneur starting out, like, why are you doing, why are you doing what you're doing? Are you doing it just to make money? Are you doing it? I think people need to start. This is the whole push that Odley is actually about is that, how are you going to benefit society? Like, what are you doing? Like, why do people, why should you even be in business? How is it going to, you know, benefit? You know, the reckless pursuit of profits is like capitalism in its finest form. And it's just, it's just messing things up. How instrumental do you think this finding, finding the, you know, the core value and turning yourself from an, from an oatmeal company into a sustainability company and then doing the rebranding around those human values was to, to your, yeah, to do success you or your have. Yeah, instrumental. I mean, the thing is, is that think about it, like you're back in 2012. Tony comes into the company and, and you start talking about all these things that you're going to do, but your actual rebrand doesn't get out until 2014. So you have a period of about, I don't know, 15 months, 16 months where nothing's really happening. It's just kind of, it's just kind of, you know, talk. Everyone's kind of, you know, trusting what, what, what you're going to do. And I don't know, if, if, if you, if you look back at that time, I think the, I don't know, I think the, the whole, the whole way of approaching that we were working with something as uninteresting as oat milk, like it's super interesting now, because people have seen as to, it's a, it's a vehicle to plant-based, but back then it was oat milk. It was like the only people who drank it were like people who were allergic to something or couldn't have the real thing. You know, it was like the uncoolest thing of all. So if we didn't find a way to talk about that in a way that was actually interesting, there's like no one would listen to us. So I think those, those values, instrumental, you know, every, every, every, the whole approach to how we're talking about was talk like oat milk, not like a scientist, even though the whole idea is a scientific one, but talk about it like it's just like you would talk to your friends about it, like a group of people helping other people find something cool to try. Yeah, exactly. Because it could have turned out to be just another, you know, you know, there was, there was soy milk and arrow as all the milk and all these various plant-based products around already. And as you said, at least it's, it's nothing, not something that you came up with in 2012. It's, it's much older than that. In 2012, we had like the startup company that was like 20 years old, like we had factories and we had food scientists and everyone knew what they were doing. And it was like, wow, we got a startup, we got this factory. But it wasn't easy. I mean, I mean, a lot of like our breakthrough happened by, by choosing a strategy of going to the top end coffee shops to baristas and showing them a product. We had a breakthrough product. We had the best product. But the response we got in the beginning was like, why plant-based? Fuck off. Like we don't, we don't need another, we don't need another plant-based. Like every time a barista did a pour, the plant-based milk would ruin it. So they weren't thinking sustainability. They were just thinking, I want to pour the best coffee. So it was just like, no, we have soy, we have almond. Can you guys go someplace else and leave us alone? We're trying to work here. And so it was just, it's a long process of actually having a great product, letting them pour it and find out, wow, it's microfogable. And then actually having thought behind it of this, it has a sustainability message. You're saving 70% carbon emissions every time you pour this coffee. And that's why it took off. Right. That's interesting. You said, because that's such a small, but I think powerful point, the fact that if you introduce this new product, this new plant-based product that doesn't really have anything deeper behind it, it's just going to be met with a reaction of, what is this? Like, why do I need this thing? We already have a nice milk here I can use. So what is the sort of resistance? How do you, how did you incorporate your voice or stand, I guess stand behind your voice and message in front of this resistance? And when did you sort of see the tipping point of? Well, I don't know, the thing is you have to look at like, milk is completely different than almond milk. So almond milk has like one or two almonds in it. It takes four liters of water to grow an almond. You know, I don't know, a huge percent, 80% is grown in California. They're just pumping water. It's 10% of California's water resource. There's so many things like that crop is just, yeah, it's 10% of California's water resource or pumped out to the desert where they're growing almond trees. You know, it's like, it's like, you start to think about this, wow, this is just, and so oat milk is different. First of all, it's like, it's a great, great product. It tastes really good. It works really good with coffee. All those things need to be in place. We have all these amazing food scientists that have been working kind of like, not in secrecy, but without any, you know, great cred or that they haven't been famous for 20 years, just making this great oat milk. And so it's just like, it was like, we looked at it like, wow, this is amazing product, but no one really knows about it. So the resistance part, I think is just like the resistance is resistance in anything. If you've got a terrible product and you're getting resistance, there's nothing you're going to do in a branding, you know, in a branding point of view to make that good. But if you have a great product and it just needs to be, you know, people need to try it. And that was kind of the departure point for us is that people just need to try it. Then you have to find a way to actually get them interested to try it. So our whole entire marketing budget, or yeah, we didn't have a marketing budget in the beginning. So the only thing we had was the packaging that our products were in. So we just said, these are like billboards. It's our out-of-home campaign. We'll just create this packaging that doesn't look like any other packaging and is designed to get people to walk over to the store, pick it up and turn it to the side and start reading. And once they do that, they got to take it home. And then they're going to be like, they're going to do two things like, this is great, or this fucking is terrible. And if they think it's terrible later, you know, see you later, it's done. But if they think it's great, then we got, you know, then you can spend they're going to get more interested. They're going to look at our other products. They're ever going to try the cooking cream more. They'll go over to the ice cream or they'll find something else. So it's quite simple if you look at it from a strategic basis, but it's just like executing on things right.