 Hey everybody, David Chang here with the art of thinking smart glad you can join us Where we're gonna learn to live smarter think smarter and make smarter decisions and this week I am excited to have as a guest Don Chapman who's the former editor of midweek and Actually through Don. I got my start in journalism by writing a weekly article. Don. Thank you so much for coming really excited for you to be here and and Just to give a little background I want you to kind of explain you know You were the former editor of a paper that you took from 300 to 500,000 readers the largest weekly paper in the state of Hawaii and You actually started the seminary students So can you explain a little bit about that in that jump over there? Frank to Lima have the same background. Oh, wow. Okay. All right. We've talked about that I'd written for papers in high school and college and when it came time to quit the seminary for Several reasons that are personal I a good pal of mine Who I'd worked with in high school papers and he got on to Oregon journalism school was was working for the Philly Enquirer And I said well, I can do what he's doing and so I went back to Oregon to journalism school and and that Started the process. Got it. So then then you started working. You said in California Then moved here to Hawaii 1879 has been writing ever since that 13 years as a daily columnist at the old advertiser and then 22 years as the editor of midweek Until the 1st of August and I'm now officially retired. Well, congratulations on that But but I guess you could see you already have a lot of different ideas from our other conversations And so today's show I want to talk about thinking smart when it comes to your career and what you've seen Since you have become an editor of a large paper all the stories you've covered all the people you've had to hire Just you know what I think of an editor in chief I think of chief Perry on Superman who's out there making decisions with all this stuff. I Before we go into the career advancement because you little tell us a little bit about as an editor What was your day-to-day? You know the stories would pop up How would you balance that out with events current events? No two days are the same Because things things change day to day You could be working on a story that you're going to put to bed on a Friday But which is a deadline day at midweek, but something suddenly happens on a Wednesday We what we can get this this story in if we hustle so so things are always changing and and there's a story schedule But it's never written in stone. Got it got it and and I guess with all the writers that you have press You get the final say on the stories More or less I had a boss right on front right But it was definitely a team got it the team effort on that And what would you say is one of the reasons why you were able to get the readership within your tenure? Our founding publisher Ken Berry had had a great saying he said midweek should have as many common common denominators as possible And so you might only pick up the paper to read Bob Jones's column You might only pick up the paper to get the ad Got it, but we want you to look at something else along the way as well. Got it got it So I like that so common denominators so that people are constantly the habit of and that's I think a Thinking smart tactic is that in our lives looking at the common not nominators of What we can do in and working with other people now so going into the career advancement portion So you're been editor for over two decades and you started from the ground up And you talked about you want to talk about six things that you think that Even if you're mid-stage early stage or even maybe in retirement like yourself The things that that we need to do in today's society and so if we could start with number one What would you say is the first thing that people need to do for their career advancement education? Okay simple is that? I look for people who were trained as journalists that doesn't mean that we didn't have people who were just like an English major for but You look for someone who's had some kind of training professionally got an education Schooling you mean so you definitely you believe that in today's world Getting higher degrees is essential in today's market. Yes. Okay. Got it. And then so After education, what would you say is the next one? Experience which is kind of a catch-22 if you're young you're just coming out of college One thing I always told young journalists is right for your college paper right for your high school paper And and then you've got some clips that you can come show to an editor. Got it. So So, how would you okay? So now? Let's just say somebody who's young doesn't have the experience yet. How would you encourage them to get? Experience you talked about writing for college paper. What if they're not in college? What would you say? How do you kind of look look in that direction? I a great great example Was I was doing a book book signing years ago at the old boarders at it Which are called white Kelly and this young woman came to me and said I want to write for you And I said you got any clips and she goes well. No, not really. I said come come talk to me when you got some clips It was about a year later. I heard from her. She she had been blogging Writing online and and had some clips and it was great stuff and we hired her as a columnist Okay, got it. You're talking about your book signing that's tell me a little bit about that So you publish your books? I've had two published locally by what you're called mutual publishing And then I published I think five or six on my own through amazon Okay, guys, so self-published books and regular books. What were the general topics of those? Oh golly. It goes everything There was one it was the story of Abraham who I think is most important person in the bible because Okay, he's he's the father of judeism christianity and islam There was a Historical novel on alexander cartwright the father of baseball who lived most of his life here. Oh, okay And and and it wasn't double day. It was cartwright Who who was the father of baseball interesting side graduate from west point and ad mere double day graduate from west point So we are taught that the founder of baseball was a west pointer, but you're saying it's cartwright So that's interesting. Okay. I want to definitely read about that and and going off the you know Talk a little bit about the publishing side Do you self publishing is a lot more common nowadays? What what do you think of that versus going through the traditional publishing route versus self publishing? There are arguments both ways This one this way if If you're self publishing you've got total total control on the package. Got it I am my own editor rather than a publishing house editing for me and I've had a couple of bad experiences with that I see um The positive of going through a publishing house is they've got the marketing and Whereas now I've got to do my own marketing guy in the publishing house. They own the rights to the book essentially, right? Okay, so you do have that pros and cons on that side So, okay, we've talked about um education is important and even if What would you say to somebody who is maybe midlife crisis? And they want a career change and especially with the millennials You see the polls showing that millennials switching jobs every one or two years How have you experienced that being an editor and and what what do you recommend if they're saying? You know, I've been in the engineering or finance field. I want to jump in the journalism How would you talk about that when it comes to education experiences? They don't have it I know you talked about trying to write for it, but uh, what would you say on the career transition side? Well, I I I did that from the church school right journalism So I would say just just go for it Just have have a plan in mind too. Just don't jump blindly. Okay. Okay. What would you mean like a plan? I would say if if you're in Say if you're an engineer and for some reason you think you're not making enough money I can't imagine You know what you suddenly want to be a teacher Got it something. Well, well, then you've got to go get some education. Sure. Sure. Uh on a quick side of What would you say makes a good journalist? Curiosity Oh, okay curiosity And it's that ability I guess to continue to just learn or continue to fact find And I I was always aware that I wasn't telling my story. I was telling that person's story. Interesting Okay, so you're telling a Story of someone else and try to convey that to other people Okay, well and uh, and I guess now I want to move on but I'm curious to know What would you say it makes good writing? Because you see so much out there online blogs Um, and I actually probably spend hour to two hours a day Combine reading different articles blogs all this kind of stuff. What would you say? Would you say this is a good article or a good writer? Whether it's written or a shoe telling me a story. It's a story And and and it's good storytelling. Okay, got it. So that's this that's simple good writers are good storytellers God, okay. All right. So we like education experience. What would you say is a third one for career advancement positive outlook? Okay And I couple that with the willingness to work. Okay Um, we had several young people on on the staff at midweek, uh, who were still there And we we made it a very positive work Environment, okay, so so it was a place that they wanted to be got it And and when you positive outlook you say, okay positive work environment for the person itself And I think it's kind of tough Would you say that they have to be Obviously passionate about their work in order to have that outlook But is it also outlook on their personal careers or their profession of choice? What would you How do you look for that positive outlook in somebody? That's a good question and and you're trying to do this in one or two job job interviews Um It it just shows david. I mean the first time I met you This is a positive guy got it. Okay. So it's your years of experience you got that gut feel that somebody's is passionate about what they do And and you know, obviously being editor for a long time Have you had to let people go because you found out that they just didn't have the passion that you thought they had I never had to fire anyone in that sense. We were very lucky. We had some good hires There was a couple of people who it became Apparent to both them and us that this was not working out and they just found found something else to do got it got it. Okay, so then That positive outlook is important and you couple that with that willingness to work and and and team teamwork again Okay, it comes back to that if somebody's on vacation and then somebody gets sick and it's a relatively small staff somebody's got a pitch in and and and at the paper at midweek We were very lucky because everybody pitched in when they needed to got it So just on a curious note maybe in curious when you first started we didn't have computers like we had today No, can you think a couple minutes? I'm always I always enjoy this In the early 80s, how did you guys set the paper out versus today? When I was at the advertiser writing writing a daily column from 79 through through 82 Um We typed on funny paper that would get scanned. Okay, and and and as I recall this is a long time ago Uh, it was like a duplicate thing. Okay And at some point we had some rudimentary computers. This this would have been in the early 80s, but but Early early 80s. We were still typing on paper and scanning really that's interesting Well, we'll be right back and thank you so much for joining us and we'll be taking a short break Aloha, I'm Richard Emory host of condo insider A weekly thursday show at three o'clock that goes all summer long talking about issues living in a condo association Each week we bring experts to talk about the rights and obligations of owners and boards of directors to successfully run their condominium It's a great educational show answers a lot of questions. We hope you'll visit us sometime. Aloha Looking to energize your friday afternoon. Tune in to stand the energy man at 12 noon. Aloha friday here on thick tech hoy Hey, how you doing? Uh, welcome to the bachi talk. My name is andre landing. I'm your co-host And we have a nice program here every friday at one o'clock on thick tech studios where we talk about technology And we have a little bit of fun with it. So join us if you can thanks. Aloha All right, so now I'm excited again to have Don Chapman here the former editor of midweek And we've been talking about career advancement whether you're starting off new or Want to change careers and we're seeing a lot of the younger generations Change your careers every two to three years. Not sure if it's good or bad But we've talked about so far five things out of the six The first one you're saying is education and if you don't have it get the education Experience and nowadays anyone could blog or write for other folks if they need to we talked about positive outlook We talked about teamwork And then the fifth one was hard work a hard work, right? Okay, so That's important. So now let's look at the sixth one. What would you say is the next one needed that you look for? And you also believe it's crucial for advancement Okay, simple as that whether you're a little league coach or you're helping with a food drive Or if it's some professional group or or or or an ethnic group Volunteer some somehow I I just did a story On two gentlemen who are architects they they put on the biggest trade show for the construction industry here Architects and and they've been doing this for the last 17 years They they said that it's been personally fulfilling and it has helped their careers. Okay. God. And so how okay What would you say to somebody? Is it just to go down the list of nonprofits volunteer? How would you encourage somebody to move along? Into that area That's something I'm going through now David because I've got time time on my head All right I do some volunteering now working with the student newspaper at what you're called moana lua high school Oh, this is the third year. I've been doing that But I do have some time and I'd like to be on a board So I'm starting to look around at things that that interest me. Okay. What are things that interest you? Things that have to do with children and education If it benefits kids some somehow okay, and what in your line of work This is something that I read somewhere that The newspaper is written that A third or fourth graders able to read right so you have your journals and everything It in your opinion volunteering at these schools How are our our kids set up for success in the future? Um The kids that I'm dealing with are so smart. That's great Um, and every time I leave the school I go. Well, that was fun Right right and and and so I'm there to teach them But but at the same time I'm learning from them. Interesting. And so when you teach journalism Uh, I'm assuming okay. You got your normal grammar. You're you're normal But you're teaching them to tell a story like you mentioned correct and to um identify A story what what is a good story? Okay. What what is a good story? He has perfect. Um What interests you okay? And and and and if you're as a writer interested in the story, you've got a much better chance of making it readable and interesting to A reader got it. So you identify the story by what interests you what else do you teach? You know students uh to become journalists are good writers for that. Oh my god at this level I've just spelled the names right right right. It's the one thing I tell them We each have one thing. It's our name and and get get that right details um and and and and we talk about active writing not just um A ball hits you in the head. Okay, but You but but but tell it more actively. Okay, so active voice versus passive voice And and for those that are listening Uh, you could google it if you have questions on what that is too In the military we're actually taught Not to use passive voice because people think that they sound smarter when they do that But you're right. I think that's important I I and so I really like it. So education experience the positive outlook teamwork hard work And and in volunteerism I want to talk about the teamwork. How are the dynamics in a newsroom? You know in your mind you see on tv everyone's moving quickly because they gotta meet these deadlines But when I went to visit your office, it seemed like everything was running very smoothly. People were on top of it How how how were the dynamics that you created the company culture? Um, first I would say that the midweek office is rather different than the daily paper office Okay, uh, because they're cranking out of paper every single day Right in a sense. We were too because there was midweek. There was midweek kawai We did four neighborhood papers called the voice And so it was almost a daily operation in the sense that we're doing a publication just just about daily Organization you've got to be organized and planned Got it and and it planned me all the time got it because stories can fall through Okay, I so so I you have a story lined up with the source And and I got a question on that because you're always here. Okay. Hey, there's a whistleblower and there's going to be Uh, that's what does that law say? I'm just curious Can you reveal your sources or or have you ever been in that situation? Sure, and it's pretty well spelled out. Um, if a person comes to me and Says that a crime was committed against them, right? I I'm just not going to write that Okay, first I've got to go to the police and file a cop report and then we report on that Ah, I see I see so you have to make sure to vet it through before it actually gets to you guys So one of the questions I want to ask and I think this is a debate that I've heard now with the invention of the iPad and the digital tablets versus hard copy and We've had a lot of newspapers the past, you know, since the Great Recession go belly up and and What do you think the future is and if you were 30 years younger Would you still be in the same industry? Uh, and if you were what would you look at future success? um Every year the uh journalism kids take a tour of our our office at the daily paper and and the one thing I always told him was the world is always going to need somebody who can tell tell a story Well who can dig out the facts who can present it? So whether the format is a paper or if it's on a tablet Uh, those skills will will will always be valued One one interesting thing david j. J. Hartwell who is the faculty advisor at the uh student paper kaleo There was a national study done a couple of years ago that he shared with me And college students it found out that they might might have phones and tablets and this and that But when it comes to their own school paper, they want to hold the paper right right, right? I like holding books. I read a lot like one or two books a week. That's my goal A lot of it through audible a lot of it through kindle tablet But you're right when I can just feel the the paper I could write notes on the side or highlight I I definitely agree and so for you You talked about curiosity being very very important Where do you go to do your research or I don't know we could all just google it but as a journalist Uh, you know, there's a lot of stuff out there just googling it wouldn't wouldn't suffice How would you tell a good journalist to say this is This is how far research and details you need to go into Googling is great. You can find a ton of stuff in like that But but it's people you need to talk to people Okay, and that's what part of being a people person you say is important then One of my ideas for a midweek story in the 22 years that I was there Was it we might be writing about politics? We might be writing about business We might be writing about sports, but it's always a people story God, it's a people story What would you say was your most favorite maybe most memorable moments At midweek stories you've written or Or moments that you had there a couple come to mind At first and the first one really put midweek on the map because it was kind of a little shopper When I became the editor in 94 January 95 I flew over the big island and interviewed Larry may have Names it means a lot to many people In fact, I ended up doing 16 hours of One on one with Larry. I was the only print media guy that he ever trusted So he passed last winter. I'm now in negotiations with his family to do a book on Larry. Wow, okay So sort of the other end of the spectrum and Larry was a great guy And the stuff they said about him is not true most of it most of it And and on the other end it would be the Dalai Lama Wow, who I've gotten to cover several times His last visit here. I think that was in 2012. He actually shook my hand twice. Wow That's that's great. So you've got to write a story about him and and how often because you know You know, I used to write for you. You have multiple writers How often would you actually write a story in midweek in the early days? I was writing everything I would write a cover story in a column and a newsmaker and an old friend feature In more recent years. I became more of a manager and was just writing When I had something to say basically, okay Would you read every article? Oh, yes So so you're you're looking for typos grab or all that type of stuff and for content every story every story I would I would laugh some sometimes I get a call from an angry reader. Did you read this? I said, yeah Yeah, I did actually twice What would you say are the Memorable articles that you got the most response from people on Bob Jones, okay. All right. Jones. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah Politics obviously politics always politics and and and the thing that I used to laugh about People would say you're a republican paper and other people would say you're a democratic paper Often in the same day with the same same issue. Well, thank you very much So I know that you had local writers and then syndicated. Yes. How does that work? The syndicated guys are great for papers because we may pay like 10 bucks a column Oh, wow, I see for a Patrick Buchanan column. Okay, but but but if using 400 papers Yeah, I see that so that's how he makes his money and and so that's another way somebody can get career advancement is really just through networking and just kind of finding out other Small papers you're in Hawaii, but you can still write for a part of small paper in another state Given today's technology then. Yes, exactly. Interesting. And so kind of Coming back and just summarizing it We see that right education is important and And does it degree now? Let's just say that they did have a degree But you could see they've got the experience or they are able to Write well tell a good story What would you still say to that? Would you still encourage them to go back to school? Some kind of continuing education. It may not be a formal classroom But but but to keep educating and it just could could be reading got it You are a prime example All right, right, right, right. Just continue to self-educate it and then continue to get Degrees and thankfully our line degrees are readily available and some and even our major schools are doing it So then we talked about education We talked about experience and trying to get experience anywhere And I guess you're saying have a portfolio of your work. Absolutely hand to hand to people How would you say to to reach out to somebody? You mentioned you were writing a book and someone came to you and says hey, I wanted to Write for you. Would you recommend people just cold call or cold email and editor? How would you say? They should approach people like you when you were the editor. Yes Don't don't be shy. Okay. There's no time to be shy. Got it. Don't be afraid of rejection You you will be rejected. Okay, so you will you know when you're going to be rejected the more time just like sales It's not about how many times you get nodes how many times you go out there and get those yeses So just encourage them to not be shy and everything that we talked about hard work teamwork a positive outlook and then volunteering and and kind of what I see on the volunteer side You're talking about have adding value. I guess to society Not just trying to take something from somebody or some organization But I think Any person that you know who does any kind of volunteer work will tell you that they get more out of it than they give Got it got it and and I had a mentor tell me Because there's so many organizations you could join Don't join an organization just to see what you can get out of it But make sure that it's an organization that you want to be able to add value to to help and then Things kind of like a dominant effect. Well, uh, uh, don't don't go in there Look you for something but what you can provide and give something that you believe in got it Well, hey Don, thanks so much. Appreciate it. We're excited and I again a very honored that we had Don Chapman editor former editor of midweek here And I look forward to seeing you on our next show