 G'day, it's Graeme Kat here, the Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Veterinary Association. I'm here in Sydney, Australia and congratulations because you are watching Six Degrees of Association with Sarah, Rob and Andrew. And welcome to another episode of Six Degrees of Association, the first web TV show that's dedicated to the pursuit of association success. My name is Sarah Gonzalez from Redback Conferencing and as usual I have my trusty panelist with me. So Rob Barnes from Aptify and Andrew McCallum from Fitness Australia. How are we gentlemen? Pretty good thank you and good to see you and good to see you Rob. Excited to be back. Excited to be back. Well we got through the barricades downstairs that they were trying to keep us out but we're back. Couldn't silence us could they? Could not. And they didn't really try that hard which is good I think. No they did not. It was a compliment. No, absolutely. Let's get straight into it. Thumbs up, thumbs down as we all know is a section of our TV show where we actually spotlight associations that have maybe done something really really good and something not so good. So I'm going to hand over to Rob first of all. So your thumbs up for today enlighten us. Thanks very much. So a few weeks back we read online thanks to our good friends at Malab Media actually who do some great podcasts and video casts. And they were highlighting optometry Australia. So CEO Genevieve Quilty who's been on board since 2012 undertook this massive transformation. And so I really want to give thumbs up both to the CEO, the board, that organization for taking on what is a really large task which is rebranding the organization. We're going to talk a little bit more about that later in the show but to anyone that's got the courage to take on that kind of transformation organizationally gets a big thumbs up from me. So thumbs down though. One of the challenges I think to associations in the 21st century is private companies who essentially set up membership style organizations to generate revenue and confusing the public around what is truly a credential. So they're essentially trying to use this pay us for a ongoing recurring revenue kind of contract or fee or whatever it might be and confusing that with actual professional credentials. And I think that's a huge challenge and can confuse the public about what is really a professional person who has the appropriate qualifications and these sorts of things versus just being a membership organization which is a bit like a loyalty program. So I want to give a thumbs down to organizations, private companies, people calling themselves entrepreneurs who are really making it difficult for the public to discern what is a professional in a particular field. Not really transparent, is it? No, it's not. It's a real challenge to the way and I just don't think it's terribly Australian to be honest. Yeah, it's not Australian or you'd even go so far. I would. I would. I think in a country with a small population like this we need to do better. I'll tell you what is Australian, these coffee carts. How good are they? Yeah. I'm just going to have a sip of this really cold coffee. Cheers to you today. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, you know you've made it when you've got your own coffee mug. So refreshing. Who knows what it'll be next time? Yes, Andrew. OK, let's not get too excited. Andrew, thumbs up. Yeah, thank you. Thumbs up to, I've got to go really big, the American Heart Association. What a fantastic initiative they've done in installing CPR training machines at major airports around the United States. So people, you know, for five minutes you can learn how to do hands-off, hands-only, I should say CPR training. And what a fantastic way to build your brand, build awareness of the important work that the American Heart Association is doing by actually giving that training, free training, you know what? I've got five minutes to my flight and I can duck into the booth and learn how to do chest compressions properly. Wasn't there something like that recently in Australia a few months back? And they had it, I forget which oval it was, and it was come down, learn how to do free CPR. We'll have to research that. Yeah, it was on the news and it was like one day we could go down and they were trying to break the record or something. And I think it was the Australian Heart Foundation or something like that. Just trying to encourage people to get on board and I think that's a great campaign and just really shows how you can generate so much exposure just to everyone as opposed to just your members. Yeah, exactly. It's growing the brand. So a big thumbs up to the American Heart Association for that great initiative and look up the initiative you mentioned as well. Thumbs down. I've got to go Virgin Australia Velocity Reward Program. Virgin Australia recently announced that it's about to get a bit harder, a bit more expensive to utilise their velocity reward points to claim flights, to claim whatever it may be. So reading the press release, they highlight that their main competitor, Qantas in this case, is still that little bit more expensive as far as points goes. So a Sydney to Melbourne flight, it might be 7,800 points on a velocity using velocity points, up from 7,000. But hey, it's okay because Qantas is still 8,000. And velocity you're going to say, well, you're going to lose your points now with no activity after two years, but hey, it's okay because Qantas is still three years. And reading between the lines, it's hard to see that this is anything but an attempt to make your, to make yourself look that 10% better than your main competitor. And I think, you know, look, Virgin Australia has sold a large portion of their velocity reward scheme a few years ago, but really, I think they need to go back and let's just remember exactly what made that airline popular in Australia and what made them successful in delivering value to your customers. Being an organisation that delivered value that wasn't really that concerned with what the opposition was doing, because we're going to do it differently. And I think, unfortunately, with this change to their, latest change to their reward program, it's simply a matter of moving so far away from that initial, what made them successful that it's very disappointing. So a thumbs down to the Virgin Australia rewards program. You'll still find me in row four that way. It just gets under my skin, though. Brands that go out there and they implement something that's going to affect their members, but then they try and cover it and put on a smoke screen by, you know, trying to be better than their competitors. It's just so dodgy. Once again, un-Australian rewards. Well, it's a challenge. It's a challenge. And I don't know, maybe not as Brands and Eskers as Richard would like. Yeah. And we look forward to getting his feedback. I'm sure you're watching Richard. Thank you. Hi, Richard. And Pap says that we could get that hashtag trending, hashtag un-Australian. Oh, okay. That would be nice. So speaking of branding, we're now going into the lunchtime special. So this is a part of our show where we actually highlight certain topics that we think are quite interesting within the sector and deserve a little bit of debate. So today we're actually going to talk about branding and the role of brand management in the association sector. So how much do members actually care about the brand of the association that they belong to? And on the back of Rob's thumbs up for Optometry Australia, let's explore the role of branding in the pursuit of association success. Thanks, Sarah. I think it's a great discussion to have because branding is a really challenging piece for associations. On the one hand, it has the opportunity to create the most value for the membership. And then it's also a really expensive exercise. When you think about corporates, you know, fast-moving consumer good companies and these sorts of things that are, I mean, they're spending millions of dollars repositioning the brand, creating new logos, putting some purpose behind. Associations don't have those kind of resources. So there's innovative ways, I think, that associations start to bring rebranding to the table that is far more effective because they're trying to do it on a shoestring budget and the like. However, the purpose behind it has to be really, really clear. And so that's why I really like what Optometry Australia did. And Genevieve Cooley was very clear that they're talking about a monumental shift in strategic focus. And that shift was from an inward-facing, member-centric, trying to market the association's value to the membership to a, let's promote the value of the profession to the public. And that's an enormous shift to make, no doubt. It takes a little bit of courage as I thumbsed up before. It can be an expensive exercise as well. I mean, that's part of the challenge, right? But you make a great point. I mean, it is, you know, are you promoting the profession or are you seeking to promote the association? Now, people join associations. Why do I join? Well, if I get recognition, fantastic. That's what I'm looking for from joining, among other things, of course. So being that association and finding that way to do that, to deliver that value around that brand recognition, I mean, it's a tough sell. It's a tough sell. It's a tough thing to find the dollars to do it and to find the way to do it efficiently because associations don't have the untold wealth that, you know, a lot of private organizations with powerful brands have. The trick is to be clear. The trick is to absolutely be clear why it is that you are looking to change the face or the reputation of your association in the first place. And so, you know, I harp on about purpose being, you know, as important as anything else. And in the case of a professional association, the value for membership, the value for professionals in that industry is if the public recognizes what it means to be a registered optometrist, a registered exercise professional. It's not the value between the association and the professional. The real value in my view is when the public can recognize and go, well, I'm going to choose that optometrist, that actually that orator because of their relationship or their professional credential conferred upon them by the association. And that's where the real value can be created. And it's great to see organizations starting to think more like that strategically. And as I say, it takes a lot of courage for a CEO to be able to present a board paper to a board and say, well, we're going to spend this kind of money over the next two or three years to completely transform the way Australians or, you know, the public particularly view our profession, not view the association. Do you think that it's easier for different industries then? So for example, your legal, your accounting, those industry bodies in the public eye, they might be seen as a bigger brand and a better brand because of what they do? I'm not sure that it's about necessarily. It's not easier for them because of the brand. I think it's easier for them because most people will use a professional in some of those industries in everyday life. But it's no different than trying to find a, you know, a qualified mechanic or a qualified mechanic shop who's with the Motor Traders Association or whatever it is and say a trust that they're going to do a better job than someone who's just on a corner store kind of guy. So I think that because there's a touch points with accountants, lawyers, the medical practices in the consumers everyday life, they had this opportunity to really discern between the credential and otherwise. And it takes a branding exercise to do that. I mean, look at the work that Chartered Accountants and CPAs have done. Master Builders Association has actually done a really great job of it as well. Over a long period of time too. That's the trick, right? It takes a long time to change perception. And it's almost that I think there's almost that pivot point where, okay, the professional wants to tell their clients, their potential clients, I am a member of CPA. I am a member of Master Builders Association. And to me, building that brand, the ambassadorship among your membership is incredibly powerful in terms of building that greater brand. You know, you're promoting that person says, yeah, I am a CPA and I want to put it on my business card, put it on my website. I don't want to tell clients, potential clients, I am a CPA. And as you've, once you achieve that, then, you know, that brand has enormous value. The challenge is that has to almost happen concurrently. So on the one hand, you know, Andrew, you've made the point previously about, you know, we want to do something that's going to motivate our best sales force, if you like, is our own members who are going out there and marketing themselves and saying, I am this versus that. The motivation for them to do that is to see that there's a return on that investment. And that's where the association comes in. The association has to have gone out there and created some public awareness or perception that there is a difference between unregistered and registered, credentialed, not credentialed. The challenge to a CEO in an association is that that's money that has to be spent concurrently. And it takes a lot. Motivate your internal membership to go out there and tell the community what they are a member at the same time. Let the community know, when you're making a choice, you have a choice. An optometry Australia registered practice or not. I think that's where Master Builders has just gone amazing. Yeah, as soon as I see that, even though, you know, and especially as a female, if I was to get something building wise done, I'd probably ask my boyfriend, he's a carpenter. But if I didn't have that, I would go out there and I'd be looking for something like that. I want something, you know, if something does happen, I know they're qualified and, yeah, it's just more credible. The opportunity for associations in this space is that, in a lot of cases, there's regulatory requirements for that. Sure. Someone I behave like there is a regulatory requirement for people to do that. And I think that if an association that doesn't have that legislative backing could behave and say, well, you know what, let's make like it is that. That is the standard that Australians or your community in any country expect. So we're going to set it up like that. That's the real challenge. Do you just sort of, I mean, taking that from another slightly different view. So if I'm an association, I've got my members out there promoting the fact I'm part of the association, do you risk diluting that brand? Are you, in a sense, putting control of that brand, the strength of that brand in the hands of people who, you know, let's hope they are doing the right thing by the brand? If I get a bad experience with the count, do I think, well, does that damage the perception of CPA? I look at count. I mean, we've experienced it in the industries ourselves when people see how successful that can be and think, well, look at that, I'm going to do the same thing. And that was my thumbs down earlier, right? It's people who take what associations do really, really well and say, you know what, I'm going to turn that into some sort of program that I can generate revenue out of. And that's not the point. The point is we're trying to educate the public. We're trying to show that there are people in a profession that are working very, very hard to keep up to date with the modern trends and practices, to stay credentialed, to deliver great service. And associations are absolutely critical in modern society to delivering those services to the professionals, which ultimately everyone in the community benefits from. When people start detracting from that by putting up bogus credentialing programs and education programs, and absolutely there's a risk associated with that. And so the brand journey becomes even more critical that if the perception is that I'm going to go and hire an accountant, I need a chartered accountant or I need a CPA. That decision making only comes because of this broad brand awareness. However, that's a terribly expensive exercise. Yeah, and not a simple exercise, obviously, to execute properly. But no, and full credit to the optometrists for the journey they're setting out on too. I think here in Australia we've experienced some really good examples of this. And we probably need to do more now that we've got the show to start promoting some of that work. Because that's really where the rubber meets the road for mine, is that the public is starting to see the power of associations within society as helping them make really good consumer choices. Sounds good. So if anyone does have no doubt, I think we're going to get a lot of feedback on that topic there. Even some examples of some associations that you think have done incredibly well in that area, feel free to let us know. And you can simply go to, or subscribe, we're encouraging people to subscribe to Association's Now magazine from ASAE and go to associationsnow.com. Otherwise, you know, the actual platform where we've got everything hosted, feel free to click on the link where you're actually on now, sixdegreesofassociation.com and you'll be redirected there. Get on the Twitter. Yes, yes, hashtag 6DA. The whole idea is to build a community and to get everyone involved, share feedback, not just within this 22-minute format, but before and after and get everyone sharing ideas. So please feel free to join in the fun. And speaking of fun, we now have Andrew's segment. So there really is an association for everything. Let's find out more about this obscure association. Well, speaking of fun and thank you for bringing it up. Sarah, what say you and I get out to have a game of Shinty this afternoon? What? Shinty. Shinty. I don't know if that sounds too appealing. Please explain. I did say that properly. No, this week, fantastic. I present to you the English Shinty association. It's not that easy to say if you say it quickly. We go to the Great Britain where we find the sport of Shinty and as I say, the English Shinty association, the ESA, as I like to call them. So Shinty is a winter sport. Think hockey with a lot more tackling and a few more, it's with the stick, using a much smaller ball of it like a squash ball sized sport. So Shinty bears similarities to hurling, which is an Irish sport, but it does predate that. So a few years ago, three like-minded individuals all with a passion for Shinty formed the English Shinty association and full credit to them too. Really built it up. There's now four Shinty clubs in the UK. And in 2004, there was actually an international Shinty match between the USA and England. England won. Good job. They won. Two-nil. So as I say, there's now a ladies Shinty league in England formed within those clubs. And I really do look forward to the day when Shinty makes it to Australia. We've got the National Rugby League, the AFL, and I think the Australian Shinty league has a nice ring to it as well. But in the meantime, until we get to that stage, I do salute the USA. Good work and very pleased to be able to honour your efforts on this segment. I feel like you'd go have a game of Shinty and then have a Shnee at the pub afterwards and it would just be the best day ever. Shinty and your Shnee. That's brilliant, isn't it? There you go. We can use that. What sort of field is this played on? It's this hockey field sort of... Bit bigger. Okay. Think more AFL field, actually. Wow. Overfield. Bro. You don't call it a goal in Shinty. You call it a hail... I've been waiting to do this for a long time. So we're now at the two-minute warning. I'm just going to put this down here so it doesn't fall. Because I know you guys tend to talk like this. So this is the two-minute warning. This is where we share feedback. Anything that's come into us over the past two weeks. Let's have a little bit of a discussion about some of the stuff that came through. Sure. So last time we actually, in your Obscura Association section there, you actually talked about the Work in Samoid Association if everyone recalls that. So just a bit of an update on what that is. So association to maintain the pure breed and the competition for working Samoids. Get them to run across a little obstacle course. Beautiful dogs. Samoids. Really good dogs. Very loyal. Okay. Well, we've got recommendations that you should actually check out. Wait for it. The Agility Dog Association of Australia. Okay. If I have a dog, I want it to be part of that association. The A-D-A-A. That sounds like the A-I-S for dogs. Canons, really. Agility dogs. Well, if your dog's not agile, what's the point? I'll thank you very much for that suggestion and I'll certainly look that up and look forward to featuring the A-D-A in a future segment of this show. Fantastic. They'll be getting that feedback too. Anymore, please keep them coming. Also, the set you may have noticed, we've had a bit of a redesign. Just mix it up a bit. Look at us now. With our designers. You should see our caravans. That's right. Anymore, and this is all feedback that we've taken on board. We've been reading before these episodes begin as well. We've been incredibly busy as well. Doesn't just happen. I think that feedback is coming. We did speak a few weeks back about strategic planning and we came up about strategic planning. A few people out there had so many different opinions. I know you both had your own opinions as well. And there has been some talk about starting some more conversations on associationsuccess.org. So associationsuccess.org is where you can actually go to form or to join this online community that we have going. And I think it might be good to even start a discussion around strategic planning because I think people really want to know what other associations are doing, how it's working for them. It's about sharing the knowledge as opposed to just keeping it all close to your chest. I like how it's not how it arises the discussion in association. So that's a great place to do it. And yes, the online community, six degrees of association, online community association success. We posted a link there from the Forbes magazine, the article that we shared and it's got some interesting points in the broader sector about the views of strategic planning and the like. So I think that we should argue a little bit more. I'm happy to argue that with you, Rob. I'm sure you are. But that's a wrap. Thank you for joining another episode. We're almost over 22 minutes. So let's get through this really, really quickly like we've got helium in. Please go and join our community. Please also share your feedback. Hashtag, sorry, 6DA. And thank you again, Rob and Andrew for very, very slight provoking and to all of our 6DA followers. Remember that too much agreement always kills a chat. Bye for now.