 Actually, many people around the table have already contributed in different ways, and it's important to start with to say that the whole objective of today as well is that almost the three of us who have written it would kind of stand back a bit, and we want this to be owned by a broader group of everybody around the table, broader group of organisations in the spirit of the multi-stakeholder dimension the vaccine which will come into it but it should involve contributions from business, from civil society, from government agencies and be some way of bringing all of those voices into the report so that it has… It's not a sense of a judgement or something like that, but just a statement of where the internet is in Taila, in the broadest sense. So the main thing about this is that it's not a technical exercise. This is about human rights. It's about participation. It's about how everybody uses the internet in different ways ac ydy'r wych yn ymgyrch er mwyn i'r llynllud. A mae'n rhaid i bwysig yn yr hyn oedd. Felly mae'r wahanol sy'n ei ffrindwyr, mae'n rhaid i'ch bod yw'r wahanol ymddangos o'r tych yn ysgrifennu. Mae'n rhaid i'ch bod yw'r talicom yma'r ysgrifennu. Mae'n rhaid i'ch bod ysgrifennu a'r ysgrifennu i ddweud o ddweud o ddweud. Roedd cyfnodd iddo nhw byddo'r dddoron storion ond mae'r ddefnyddio'r ddaw'r pannu yn y pannu.и'r casr o'ch ddod wedi bod nhw'n medweithio'r ddodf yn ddechrau a'r ddodfodaid yng nghymru, mae'r ddodd yn ddodd mwyn o ddodd ddodd ddodd yn ddodd. mae'n mynd i gael sefydliadau hwyl iawn, fydd wedi sicrhau mewn mynd rai prifod. Mae'r gweithio wahanol itwm yn ysbytyd ohol a'r ysbytyddai hwyl iawn. Mae ydy'n mynd i'ch tetio'r maen nhw mewn pwysig, drwy'r Llyfrgell, neu ddweud. It's not a sense of necessarily a comparitive, it's also about a sense of how Thailand is. The object of the exercise you ensure everybody thinking what is that end product? The end product is not a 56 or 78. The End product is a story. It's a narrative about the different dimensions. So the dimensions, again, you've seen the previous diagram and Misako mentioned this before. And the letters stand then for this. So we talked about contextual. This is a sense of the usual things about the tie economy is demographic factors of the tie, profile of the tie, population as a whole. Equality, so balances of income, things like that. And then broad sense of governance, how things work, how the system works in pineapple. Rights, so naturally UNESCO comes from the UN, where a set of global rights which come in there and the extent to which those are being seen and put into national legislation, but also the degree to which they're also being observed in practice. Openness, so we're in the home, let's say, of open source software, but it's also about openness and the sense of society being open to change which is what's necessary for really forging ahead in the digital world. Accessibility to all, that's the most straightforward one. Obviously the hope for everybody is that everybody in Thailand, everybody in the world really will have access to that global knowledge base which is the internet. Help with their daily problems, health and education, employment and other things that they need to know. And then end for multi-stakeholder, again that's really straightforward. So who is at the table, business, government, civil society and all of them have a stakeholder in the internet which is something which is in a way owned by everybody. And then cross cutting, so there are key themes which are important to UNESCO but are also important generally across the world for the development of moving forward. The status of women and gender generally is an issue. The issue of children and we see that coming to the fore more and more as people worry about the impact of the internet on young minds. Sustainable development, we have from UNESCO's point of view the global sustainable development goals and this framework has to fit into that. All UN work is pushing forward on those goals. Trust and security, Charles, I mentioned the situation with children before. The whole question is fake news. Those issues about security, protection of personal information, protection of other kinds of information is important there. Then lastly the legal and particularly the ethical problems that the internet poses of all of us when we're online and what we look at and what we don't look at and so forth. So there's a whole set of issues there. Again, some of the principles quickly of the methods of the way the work puts together. 300 indicators altogether, a member of these core elements, core indicators which are the ones which UNESCO has decided are the ones which are the key, the basic elements, building blocks that you like to the framework. Those tend to be ones which are easiest to get information on but there are others side, others which information which comes in at different points. Again, within that framework of the 300 and 100, there's a lot of scope of bringing in things which characterize the internet in Thailand and how it develops. That's really important to capture that breadth of what's going on here as well as the depth of it within the indicators. So it's a mix of statistics and narrative. So obviously from the statistics side there is the economic statistics with members of very accurate annual survey of households and the establishment of this for every two years I think something. So again, there's good data from Thailand. So there's some really solid results to lean on there but then we also need these qualitative data around perceptions and around the different stakeholders' understandings of how things are going. Then for each category then there would be a summary which would characterize that particular dimension. So openness, rights, stakeholders' access. And it's not aiming to produce an international index so it's not like the human development report or the World Bank or the internet development index of ITU. It's designed to produce a story but it's a story which has to reflect your views. It's a story which is not where the writers and we're putting together different points of view which obviously at different times say different things but broadly speaking it has to be a kind of summary of what everybody says. The purpose of this meeting is to hear your views to try and bring your views into the report. So we've got the four core dimensions, rights, openness, access and multi-stakeholder and now I'm going to hand over to Art who has put the most of the work into the rights element. I will deal with open access and accessibility and then Dhiron Rang will deal with the multi-stakeholder element. I'll just continue. This is the first category of rights which is also cobalt things like cultural rights as well. So I won't mention it. I think you already have somehow the report to talk about it together. Anyway, these are the main questions when I do the pilot, we actually pick not every question but you will see that there will be smaller questions on the next slide, but when we develop, we will see that there will be smaller questions on the next slide but when we develop the pilot study, we select so-called core patients. Out of these six main questions, which is about legal frameworks, we're talking about not only the law itself, but also the institutions to enforce the law and also what actually happens in practices, for example. And then the question of expression, see access information and so on. These are the inside, each big questions, there are smaller ones, which is actually more than this one, more than the things that you see in this slide. But these are the selected core patients that we use in the pilot study. For example, when we're talking about the expression, for example, we're talking about where it actually goes in accordance with international law agreements and standards, which actually, like Thailand or other member countries, are also part of, for example. So these are the questions. We're talking about another example, it's public participation, where the information is actually our level and accessible to the public, so they can actually get participated in the decision making or in the policy development, for example. Public consultation process, for example. And then there are things like, sometimes not really included in some other indicators, but we think that these unosial indicators should also include it as well. For example, things about better internet, it's actually not only a communication platform, but it's also a platform to enable people to get access to other rights. So this is because of the health care rights to get these services from the public sector to talking about employment, talking about education. And then these questions actually are concerned about, when we're talking about the freedom of expression or get access, a lot of times it's actually taken from granted that you're going to use maybe the national language. So it's a Thailand central Thai, but what about if you cannot really understand Thai fully, can you still get those great information? So if you are a minority and use all the languages as part of your life, that type of information is actually available for your communities. And the thing is that all these questions, it's actually some of them, it looks like you can see how to say it like, it's actually not really isolated questions. Sometimes it's actually linked together. For example, when we talk about public consultation, if it's something going to happen in your community and the government agency say, okay, let's have a public hearing. But if the information, it's actually not our level in the language that we can fully understand. So it can cause some problems. So these two questions can link together as well. So when you see these questions, try not to think it's like in isolation, it's actually somehow linked together as well. So these are called indicators for the right now. And some of the observations from the pilot studies and as Simon already mentioned, this is from the observation in the limited time and limited resources. And at the time, we probably cannot really get access to some of the information. So if you think from those indicators, you have more inputs today, it's an opportunity to do the feedback. So observation from this right part, the thing that we see that in terms of the governance standards, whether it's about the data protection, pre-configuration and things like that, Thailand's actually quite good in terms of governance standards. We actually are members of a lot of the international laws, data bodies. And also adopt a lot of principles that are implemented to the national law. However, when it comes to in the area, for example, data protection, even though we just have the law just this year, and it's going to be effective fully next year, still there are quite big exceptions that are kind of uncertain. For example, in section 4 of our Personal Data Protection Act, there are exceptions for things like national security, for instance anti-money laundering in the area of credit bureau. Which is actually like in a lot of countries, there are exceptions like this as well, but the exceptions are actually very specific to the activities. But oftentimes exceptions in Thailand, yes, it's an exception for the whole industry, for the whole section or for the whole agency. So this is one of the observations, everything that maybe can be improved, for example. The next point is like there's no formal adoption of net neutrality. So in terms of competition law, it has been seen or perceived to not only in the internet area, actually for our industry that our competition permissions are not very effective. This perception also applies in the area of the internet industry as well. So in the area of net neutrality rates, there are actually not fully adopted in this concept. Next, a lot of times when it comes to consumer rights, or the dispute between the consumer and multinational platforms, which is an out of Thailand jurisdiction, there's a lack of effective enforcement. So that's one of the things. Next two points, I just combined together, it's related to the law that has been perceived as a restriction to the freedom of expression. Many times it's come under the name like hate speech or fake names, but when the law actually quite enforced or implemented, it has used in a different way. So for example, there's cases that maybe the information itself is actually maybe not 100% accurate, but there's no intention to harm the public, for example. But maybe the government sees this information, it's actually the attack to the government. So they label these as fake names, and use laws like a computer firm app, for example, or a defamation law under the penal code to sue those people who express the thing. And when it comes to freedom of expression online, it's also connected to other issues like privacy, freedom of assembly and jurisdiction as well. And the last point is about the public participation. Actually, Thailand is a ramp, a relative high, and also improving through years when it comes to the public government data. Anyway, there's a lot of cases. For example, when the government, when the government changes from one election to another election, they tend to change to the main design of the website. So far, the links, all the URL, all the web address changed. And people no longer be able to get access to the information. So basically the information, sorry, it's there somewhere in the website, but the link that you have is no longer valid because there's no concept of permanent link or something like that. The government keeps changing the design of the website, for example. Or sometimes it requires some knowledge to actually get the data. For example, when it comes to the court, cases of court order, there's no single point that you can actually go to if there's like 20 courts, administrative court, a constitutional right, a constitutional protection court, in North Bangkok, South Bangkok, inside that, in Chiang Mai, you have to go to every court. So at first, you actually have to know that this case actually belongs to this court or that court. And then you can go to search, and sometimes you cannot actually use the keyword to search. You actually have to know the specific document number. So yes, the document is over-level online, but it's not that accessible, right? It's not accessible at a lot of times, right? So the observation is here, it's like, coming to that, it's over-level, yes, but maybe not always or sometimes a little bit difficult if it exists to get passed to someone. The next dimension is openness. So as I said, this is not just open source software, but it's open society as a whole, as it were. And you can begin to see a lot of the indicators kind of across, across the different categories. The letters here, you find pretty much the same under each category. So law, we just saw in the rights, law and legal policy. B, open standards. So again, standards for open access to a variety of matters. Standards for open internet and technical standards. Open markets, so that the market for in the internet, the internet, the e-commerce and so on. Open content, open source but also open data. And then lastly open data and government in terms of that data being made public. And again, I think it's important to stress here that it's this balance that is struck here. None of these indicators fall completely one side or completely the other. And there are reasons why, you know, just to take the last one out of the hat for open data, but there's some data that government would want to withhold. It is important that it may in fact infringe personal data anyway. Many government offices hold personal data and they cannot release it because of that personal infringement. But there's a balance here to be struck. So some data can be released, some data can't. Some things are restrictions. We all know that fake news needs some kind of control now. But what kind of control and how does that balance work so that you can keep that open access to the internet to be able to read whatever you want. Again, this is a problem we have 300 indicators or 100 indicators even to present in half an hour or an hour or a very short time. So it's difficult to really go down into the details. But these are the core indicators here so you can pick out maybe a couple of things on the way through as it were. Well, there is some amount of telecoms data. We want to look, we have included in the report some sense of market shares between different providers. But there is a balance here between different providers. A choice for people. And that sense of an open market again is there. Open education resources, open data, legal frameworks, availability of public data. So really what we're doing at this point in this session we're just picking out those core indicators just to give you an idea. And we pick out some simple quick conclusions that all this is to be developed and this is where if you see things that you feel that things need to be nuanced or things which are missing which are important things to get in this is again what we need to hear from you. So generally especially for me as an outsider I see that the Thai economy is very open, very entrepreneurial for small businesses start everywhere and you see more way down the street when you walk down anywhere in Bangkok. Now and people we've talked to and people with things that are resources that I've seen say there are support for start-up but clearly this needs to go more there needs to be more support for start-up and start-up is one thing. Sustainability into the future I have a sense maybe that the life time for business the average start-up business is not long yet. And then we have to consider all the time of this being talking about online activity right and when we notice that only a quarter of SOAR businesses would attend employees for online that clearly is something that needs to be addressed as it were and clearly we know lots of reasons why lack of resources, lack of skills, lack of knowledge but still the internet is a source for a lot of those good ideas for business development source for marketing, source for all sorts of things a lot of that business survival rate could probably improve significantly if this take-away went up. Again I don't want to dwell on this too long but from the work that we've done on this one thing that others seem to be saying is that in the future of the next few years there are expected opportunities in health and education for internet businesses and clearly there is any health strategy for strong strategies here which probably don't exist again in many other countries so again this is a positive point but also a point where things may need to move forward in the future again two sides to this coin too so open data so there are a number of from the international side initiatives to push and to support the idea that countries should put more public data and other kinds of data on the web for easy access so education resources clearly teachers are always looking out the new learning materials that they can use in the classroom even people, citizens generally are looking for courses for information they can use to improve their knowledge or solve problems that they particularly have a major site for open education resources in Thailand set up by the government equally well the DGDA has set up as well a major site for public information and again you can see it has a huge range of data from many agencies so again both of these really show that Thailand has very much taken on board the idea of open data however as Art was really saying some of these sites can be difficult to use and you certainly ask yourself with some of these major quantities of data how easy is it for users to find what they want and when I've looked at the sites and even though I don't know Thai, I can see that I can find categories, I can find particular elements but then a particular document I have to really look right through it to find out exactly what it's about and whether it will help me or not and I can't really take a long time going through a thousand documents like that another point though is this is in the survey data from the NSO and it's actually one of the major uses that people make of the internet so one of the biggest things that businesses and individuals say they use the internet for is accessing government information so again we have a kind of double-sided thing here on the one hand there's a lot of data out there that government has put online and there are a lot of people who are using it but these figures are still relatively low and so there's still a lot of work that could be done to improve the usability of the sites and there's a lot of space for more users to be involved here which we're helping honestly in a number of different ways in taking things forward generally speaking although you could say that there are a limited number of internet service providers or telecoms companies that are the same in most countries and it's clear this kind of fierce competition for market share here and what particularly strikes one is that the devices, the internet connections are relatively cheap I think if you look at the international affordability index, Thailand is in the top ten cheapest in the world in terms of accessing the internet in that sense so that's again, it's a very good sign there's an open commercial market there's a sense that it's really cheap easy people to get access and there's competition and then I've got that last point down about open source software I'm going to go over it but this is an open software conference so plenty of people to talk about it with that going the right way so conclusions so there's still in open there's a lot of positives here there's success there's a really strong commercial market a really strong competitive environment there's a lot of open data which the government has put forward but there's need for continuing development continuing support for companies and there's need for continuing development of the government sites and more government information to be out there to help people move forward in this area so that's openness so this is the easiest one to deal with accessibility to all thanks to very good data from the National Statistics Office I mean it's a simple point here really I mean it will get more complicated but basically what we're trying to achieve here obviously is that everybody in Thailand is on the internet and using it to improve their lives in all sorts of different ways nope I'm going backwards there we go so again you can see the same categories as we've had before legal framework rights that people have access connectivity can they connect from the provision sense the coverage of wireless signals around the country which is obviously very good the level of traffic on the internet is the technical bandwidth enough to take that traffic affordability which I've already talked about again these crossovers go across the categories equitable access the key kind of element here I would say local content and language and art talked a little bit about language earlier and then skills and competencies yes things may be cheap and you can gut your phone you can press the button but you do have the skills to really find what you're looking for I'm going backwards again so again I've probably covered those pretty much in what I've just said but you can see how those categories boil down to a number of specific questions so these are the ones that are really where the framework pushes us to write something a paragraph on each one of these ICT skills, media literacy there's some information but it's limited and it's difficult to really put your finger on exactly the level of skills here languages generally this is not a huge problem in Thailand but there are significant minorities and can they access what they need to to improve their lives number of technical indicators around provision and affordability broadband coverage so progressive universal access it's a nice easy one some questions here the standard indicator is about how do you ever use the internet so well yes I used it 10 years ago but now I'm in my little village at home it's a bit more difficult so this is the population projection by age group and as we all know Thailand has a very rapidly aging population and if you look at it this is then the 60 plus and 50 plus and you can see that this is by next year in theory at least this is like 30% of the population so a third of the population are over the age of 50 it's huge and yet look at the internet users on this side and only some 10% of that group or 10% of internet users come from that group so it's very clear this is the area which needs most work and when I was in the old days when I worked for UNESCO we used to deal with literacy like this and we always used to be the older people who were in the older school system who were less literate but people used to say well when the school system moves forward this group will disappear because we all know the internet moves forward really fast I'm having problems already with the internet of things when I'm 10 years old and I've got my walking stick I'm going to be in an even worse state so this problem is not going to go away except through actually addressing that with that group of people I keep on turning this thing around so to put that in a different perspective this is simply taking the percentage of the population over 6 which is from the survey the NSO survey household use and just plotting that out as a percentage of the internet users as a percentage of that population group and you can see immediately it's not unexpected so the red areas are the hot areas if you like where internet usage is incredibly high and as you get bluer you get colder and there are more remote areas where internet usage is very low and surprise surprise it's mostly the rural areas and more remote areas and that is the place of course where a lot of the overfifted are because at least in the rural population their kids have all come to Bangkok for hot shop jobs in the city they all have their smartphones but back home in the village their parents are quite isolated so it's clear again these two figures fit together very well but younger people yes there's a question of skills in the education system but we all know you've had a smartphone to a 10-year-old and only takes two hours and they use it better than you do but the older people they don't know which button to press at all so there's some question here so there are issues about language, art rates, also about disability now if I'm blind and I have a smartphone I have to rely on Siri or Alexa or when talking to the phone perhaps to make it work but the phone can be a way for somebody who is disabled to have access to all that they need in services which reduce mobility can stop them having access to the internet can be a huge help to this disabled people so some excluded people ask the population there's simply the people who've been left behind by the huge progress that Thailand has made in terms of internet activity and if you look at this coming from the national statistics office again, affordability is not an issue and you can see that from the prices itself it's how to use it when the national statistics office survey, the biggest barrier is always but we can't see the point in using the internet that that answer is coming from people who don't have the skills to really use it and don't have the education or not the education but the training to know what to do but for successes and the government is very aware of this and we have the net pressure problem which has gone over to remember rightly 24,000 villages a couple of years ago and that is the kind of programme that has to go on I think so if you like keep on doing good work now under the term what I was working on this last year to other researchers we only have a little more than a month to do research and compile everything so much of the result as Simon's writing pointed out probably is quite limited so your participation in your input today would be highly crucial in many cases I guess we agree that the wrong framework is a workable and it provides an overarching scheme proving together a range of factors that shape internet development that will be a universal resource but when we were given this task to do last year we were looking at not only the feasibility of the indicators but also of the capability of the input to the national context in Thailand so as far as multi-stake holder participation to concern when we look at the question semantically we could provide things like is there a policy and legal framework for internet development in Thailand of course the national ICT master plan created in 2002 which is in effect from 2001 to 2010 and then continuing to ICT policy framework we used in effect from 2011 to 2020 and followed by this so far after the coup in 2014 and the government that was installed by the coup called 20 years strategic national development plan but we became unclear as far as overall internet development is concerned but we saw the net project or the village project but as far as multi-stake holder participation and accountability that is not quite present in any case the indicators under this topic I probably won't be going one by one but I'll just be giving you a fair assessment of what we found and some interesting findings much of the indicators under this topic ask about the extent and evidence of participation by different stakeholders in terms of related policy making and legislation processes and we found that while there are and sectoral law that requires public hearings and this is the larger framework of public participation, not just internet development there are constitutional provisions that require public hearing or consultation with relevant stakeholder groups prior to a passage of law or regulation the framework exists but in terms of the effectiveness of the ways these hearings or consultations are carried out is quite questionable and not to mention the viable impact on the law and policy making process well and one noble thing is about the current constitution the 2016 constitution it allows stakeholder consultation and I mentioned this because in one of the indicators cited by the IUI it asks about whether there is a policy or legal arrangement for online consultation which means as far as the UNESCO IUI conceptualisation is concerned internet is viewed as a platform for public participation but I don't really think that the Thai government or the Thai public making body really view that as a two-way communication platform they look at it more as a public relation for information dissemination platform so the conceptualisation don't quite match there is a mismatch so in any case there is this so-called law amendment which is by default it's an online consultation channel for anybody who wants to raise questions or participate in any kind of input about law amendment but we also found that whether it be this website or email or conventional public hearings there is still a question of inadequacy of participation at what point is the participation considered adequate there is no there is no clear guideline as to if there is one and two is that considered adequate there is a platform but where would it be adequate another thing is a technical barrier and the error that a number of complaints or technical errors and barriers people get maybe similar to this something like that because people encounter all these barriers and errors when they lock into the website and so forth and also the processing of input data by the responsible authority because it's not really clear a lot of people that we talked to from civil society said that they have entered some information but there was never empirical evidence that those inputs were taken by the authority in charge also the M indicator also discusses quite extensively about the local presence of internet governance mechanism as well as participation of local stakeholders in internet governance at regional and international levels I think these indicators are very well thought out but from the point of view of a small country like I am which figures really minimally at such regional international forums I think that the indicators may from the point of view of the informed performance they may be a bit too broad-based and too oblivious to specific needs and different positions of developing countries and there are also some indicators in this section on multi-stake orderism that mentioned specifically about IGF for internet governance forums because from some of the point of view of the informants they feel that coming from a small country like Thailand IGF being mainly a dialogue forum rather than policy making forum it doesn't kind of deter participation they don't really see the merits of investing in going and so forth because IGF doesn't really have a formal mechanism for input particularly from civil society into any policy in the documents and also there was also a part from IGF which exists in a number of indicators in this category there was also a question raised about the proceeding of ICANN as an example of multi-stake order forum for internet governance may allow for participation at various levels apart from the GAC event but if we look at a country-specific situation there are several factors that may influence participation whether it be financial it costs a lot to go to participate regularly, linguistically political, cultural and these are factors that I don't think have sufficiently recognized in these indicators in the Thai case a few of our informants feel that these factors have dissuaded the fruitful participation in ICANN so instead of phrasing participation as ICANN as a given indicator or something that is taken for granted I think it might do so this to underprivileged countries such as ours and in this world scheme of governance to directly address limitations obstacles that prevent there being a hard-of-infant multi-stake orderism so look at it from the flip side that's mainly my comment we haven't participated in IGF since 2015 and the last time that we brought APR IGF was it 2017 very few government organizations paid any attention it was right here in Bangkok and actually the NBTC was co-host and they were very generous with the sponsorship but I think I only saw one who regularly participated and nobody else would come in and see attended any session so lastly we have something quickly about cross-cutting issues it's quite difficult to get through but I'm going to move through quite quickly I think so these are the four issues which go across the categories gender, children, sustainable development trust and security I'm going to concentrate more on the first three and last one many of the issues have already covered because they're cross-cutting they've covered across and they've already been mentioned under the other categories so gender covers women's empowerment barriers particularly for women or by sex in terms of addressing accessing the internet and obviously legal framework and flicking harassment children internet amongst children it's the same kind of thing the rights of the child and sustainable development policy for long-term high-speed development the SME usage and again I've talked about that a little bit already about sustainability there trust and security cyber security, emergency responses legal ethics internet risks vulnerable groups talked about a little bit already so gender, so generally speaking the data suggests that women and men have generally equal access, equal roles and employment in Thailand but causative data kind of suggests that that is kind of masking still a society where we do face particular problems the children the statistics suggest that the familiarity with the internet starts as young as six or ten years old all that implies we've talked about problems we all as parents think about questions about whether our children should have access and when the Thai education curriculum explicitly talks about ICP skills and there are indeed some initiatives to answer my own question about child protection online and I was hearing about some of the phones yesterday or the day before but then there's still a question about how to what extent children really do get that sense of training and use of the internet which allows them to have use it responsibly sustainable developments generally institutions here I know there's been several changes of government but generally the institution structures here have been lasting I've been there for some time and are continuing to develop new policies in this area usage statistics are high people access online information I didn't mention the online banking act was going to before for me this is like Thailand is one of the most advanced countries in the world in this sense if I took a QR code into my shop in Canada they wouldn't even understand what it was and they'd be asking for my credit card whole time this is something where it's really leading the world in terms of developing financial models for allowing people to pay for anything from online facilities public facilities are there internet in schools, libraries, clinics as in many countries now people are saying well do we need those because increasingly there's no mobile phone and they just access the data wherever they are so there's questions there but as we've seen in rural areas there are major barriers and limits so the name will be a place for those still SME activity again we've talked about that very entrepreneurial society maybe things moving on so again some sensors to where things are here so there is questions of engagements in civil society both in terms of security and trust there are issues around security for children and other people there have been major issues with legal sanctions that have been introduced in the last years but maybe these things are going to be modified in the future and overall again I want to pick up on Pierongong's point as well this is not just about the kind of monolithic sector 300 indicators we also want to know how these indicators can reflect internet and pilot but it's not just about we want you to fill out all these UNESCO indicators and then we will be this is what UNESCO thinks this is a response to UNESCO as well about telling UNESCO what internet looks like in Thailand and I think there is plenty of capacity across this massive indicator suite for picking up those subtleties like I say advanced financial information the cheapness of being able to access the internet which gives Thailand major advantages at the global level in moving forward so really from now onwards thank you and it's over to you these colours where this works and where it doesn't and what's missing and where the gaps are and what changes should be made it's a huge set of indicators we rush through it very quickly if there's anything that you didn't see up there that you would think should be up there in terms of the topic or something it may be hidden in the indicators somewhere that you didn't see or the many things that went by too fast and you didn't quite capture or understand what the intention was or what the words or what the indicators meant so initially there are many questions about exactly what the indicators are why they're there the questions about the suite itself or things that you think should be there that work or misunderstandings thank you so much for your presentation as a representative on the security side I think some of you mentioned on the last slide about bringing together of the multi stakeholders but I have questions on the right side of the national security with the right protection how do you find a benchmark between either from the same side and from the security side we often see it as a different whole different side sending side of you but I think this kind of platform that we can come to finding what the benchmark or what can be perspective on how to balance often times in this region they always say that we need to protect national security so some of the rights that could be accepted I have already mentioned the personal data protection section 4 that could be lived if it's to protect national security so I don't know what's the final view of the UNESCO how do you define national security and either they have a hierarchy between to protect the right or to give the same to protect the national security thank you maybe if there's other questions I've always thought this is obviously a big kind of question here I think that there are firstly there are some benchmarks so there are some principles which are adopted in the UN and adopted therefore by all countries which are written down about the kind of things that countries say they will do and so there's a sense in which it's clear in that sense what countries have said they will do but there are also on the other side there are also practical issues which mean that there are things which are covered by national security right way across the board and every country has its sense of national security and rightly so it has to maintain its society it has to maintain its legal position and elements like that so I think it's finding that balance and recently in all countries this balance has changed as well I mean what are the issues where it's changed and what are the issues around fake news for example and as Misako says fake news has had perhaps a different complexion in different countries and again that balance has to be struck and many countries have not found that balance yet because it's such a new issue it has to be fitted into law it has to be and they have to find the balance that's right for them in this sense my sense would be that the indicators should express this sense of there are two sides to this question and that Thailand is working its way towards a common understanding of what that balance should be and as I say no country has really found that balance yet do you want that? yes well I wasn't expecting someone from OHCHR to be there because she's the big expert why I know but there is an importance to taking from the human rights perspective and when it comes to the right to freedom of expressions and the right to testing information and the balance between cyber security safety from the human rights perspective there is a number of instruments which was enacted by I guess more by the Council of Europe which says that when accessible information reverses on human rights issues it should be given priority it should not be hidden based on national security issues but there is some kind of regional or international standards which set up the standards in terms of accessible information freedom of information which says that when there are some human rights issues it should be given priority as compared to national security and then again the advantages of this UNESCO's internet and university is that under some categories like right you can highlight some of the challenges that the country has in terms of human rights or freedom of expressions but under all the categories like cross-cutting issues or maybe cross-cutting data you can also highlight the security and the need to protect Chinese safety and these kinds of things so it doesn't aim to because as Simon mentioned it's really a difficult balance and we are still looking for this balance in many countries again the indicators provide us information how a country is handling this balance right if we are actually talking about cases that actually already happened and actually had some roots into the actual national laws that sometimes may go along with the international standards and try to extend the sometimes interpretation to make it more fit into the current situation because actually for example those like UNESCO's declaration of human rights or even those like ICCPR that concern about the civil rights and political rights has been ratified some time ago that at the time there is no such thing like internet yet so I think it's really important that when we read those universal declaration of human rights or ICCPR or other declaration for example those like economic and cultural rights it shouldn't be read in itself but it should be read together with the more updated basically of those comments from the special repertoire to make it more relevant to the current situation so in a sense we can say those ICCPR or universal declaration of human rights it's more or less like constitution which like okay this is a principle that all the member states like to go with but of course there are different situations that happens in different countries which is like that's the reason why we have national laws but anyway those natural laws needs amendment anyway when the environment or the situation change or in some country the court itself actually like sometime do the interpretation of the actual written text so I think maybe we can go back and I think this is the thing there's a lot of time when it comes to the the read of these international standards in Thai context where it's from civil society or it's from private sector or whether it's from the government a lot of times we not really like do care much about these comments from the special repertoire we just like stick to the some principle that like 20 years or 30 years like written back at that time make it like more updated to bring those principle into the digital age right I think like the comments from special repertoire may help in this area Yes I don't know if you miss Cam Porn you want to say a few words about the child protections and the security law yeah Actually in Thailand the ministry of development and human security they have the national plan on the child protections online protections already they have the plan of action and set up the body to implement that kind of action plan already like actually the point that I would like to talk about about education the right to education in Thailand I think when we talk about education we mean the quality education and lifelong education and we also have a lot of problems in the education system in Thailand because it's not proactive learning but it's like a strategy for the examination for the higher level of education but it's not the critical thinking it's not for why the critical thinking for the children so it leads to the media information digital literacy among the children that is the I think it's the same as your presentation that the skill to access is more important than a portfolio and accessibility is one component of the media information literacy but in school the children not access and lack of skill to the accessibility the skill of the information literacy even not the children but the teacher as a whole they don't know what is the information literacy has many aspects perfect among the teacher and the children that they use the mobile phone in class some schools not allow the children to print the mobile phone UNESCO also already have the indicator about the media literacy and should that be true ok thank you maybe can I actually bring the discussion into another area where we can actually get those figures, numbers to more or less answer those questions for the indicators those two points that I discussed with Simon the first one is like it's quite difficult for us to get into the information for example about the languages that has been used on Thailand internet so there's actually a survey, figures and numbers from the Summer Institute of Linguistic, SIL the different linguistic families in Thailand there's MONG different languages in Thailand and there are some statistics on that but those numbers are more for the offline ethnic groups in different regions but we don't actually have the numbers to the questions in these indicators for example if the question asks about what are the percentage of the content in Central Thai what are the percentage of content in your ISA language what are the percentage of something like that we don't actually have the figures to answer the indicators another thing is that sometimes we found that numbers from different organizations it's not very well-aligned for example the number of internet users we have one from NSO this is from the census and there's one from NECTAID which is about the protection from the internet bandwidth and then we have one from NBTC which is more of subscriptions in terms of fixed lie and mobile users that's one thing so understandable that the methodology is different, that's why the figure is a bit different but sometimes we see the numbers actually dipping down this is quite strange and also sometimes because we don't actually have the direct numbers for the indicators, we tend to use the closest one for example the survey by EIDA talking about the consumers of the e-commerce online but then again that indicator it's a little bit questionable in terms of the population of who actually answered the survey because the way we see there's a tendency that Facebook users will be the one that's more represented in the EIDA survey because the way EIDA the survey it's more of the time from what to this social media Facebook so that's more of a question because our limited time there's some limitation to actually go through all the available resource so if you actually have a knowledge about actually these figures, these numbers are already available so do you share things? I have one more question about whether you did research covered those deadless persons and also the refugees like timeline we have big nine cam along the border they're not taking into account so let me I want to try and put all these points together a bit so it is always a problem in this area that the number of users is there are different versions that are here and it's very confusing but the best most reliable data are the household data from the National Statistics Office if you're looking at any country to get a sense of just users that's there a lot of the providers, internet service providers telecoms companies collect these survey data but often they are subscriptions and nowadays people can own several phones the phone for work, the phone for home and so the count can be confusing to say the least and the head of household I may buy a phone for my child so is it my phone or a children's phone and who is the subscription under so there are many questions here and as Art was saying what we see from ETDA and the provided data has its place but what we see from ETDA is that the surveys are online and online surveys are problematic because they don't include people who are not online or who don't as Art says if it's a Facebook survey if you don't log into Facebook you're not in the survey so there are a lot of issues around there but that data is clear however there are problems which the National Statistics Office can answer better than I can about the remote areas in terms of households so those populations they may be difficult to get to they may be I know they're not exactly nomadic but they may move between the summer and the winter and they may take a different picture different times of the year there are people who move across the borders legally or illegally so those populations are difficult to get accurate data for them there are some surveys in many countries that have tried to address that but the other thing on the language yes the vast majority of the people in Thailand can speak Thai but it's not just a question of that so for example in education UNESCO has a policy that in the first years of schooling you should be taught in your mother tongue that's what you know, you don't need to know you talk to your family and in a way as the internet becomes more universal but you should be able to use your mother tongue on the internet just as you use it you should be able to in early years of school so I think there's a question mark there and it's difficult again, all this is a question of balance what is the way forward this would be less of an issue maybe if Thailand wasn't so advanced in the internet it's so advanced in the internet but it highlights areas and these more remote areas as being a sticking point and as you move forward where do we go next and that's where you go next I think on the question of the skills and education lifelong learning I think firstly phones in the classroom every country is having this discussion I've heard this on the radio in Montreal in Canada and even in Montreal one school says yes and another school says no one teacher says yes and another school says no and it's like the child protection the easiest way is to think of it as a parent you're never quite sure what's the best thing to do on the internet with your children now so there aren't any principles but everybody from the classroom upwards is trying to find a way as to the best places and we're all worried about the effect that this is having on children so there is that and tying that in a little bit to the skills I was saying earlier I think that the skills again the skills UNESCO is working to find have very thorough statistical definitions of skills in this area because these are global statistical indicators under sustainable development goals but UNESCO hasn't got there yet the closest that it's got is there's a European standard which more asks about activities than skills but that is the most acceptable statistical standard and the International Telecommunications Union which sets the standards for measuring household work on ICTs has adopted that and I think UNESCO is moving towards that too but we haven't got there yet but I think it's going to happen there's a lot of pressure for that to happen and it's extremely difficult to measure skills and I can I've been involved, I led a project for two years trying to measure literacy on the global level it's hard enough just to measure literacy how to compare alphabetic scripts with China ideographic scripts for example and different standards it's pretty impossible and after two years I wanted to change my job and luckily they let me I have some information that I would like to share about the way that my office conducts it we conduct the survey on the information on literacy based on the UNESCO framework and at the report something that we do about the digital literacy we try to develop the digital literacy for the quality of literacy some pressure regarding to the the third dimension to the model which you reach about accessibility to all in your sub-indicators you mentioned about equitable access and when you decline the group of people you decline by geographic gender disability I wonder what the people who illiterate who can read or write so the way that they gain the information just from listening or seeing but here there are not indicators indicated are there any information which are available in that format right, I want to when you define the group of people you did include the one who cannot read and write so it's not important to mention about the disability sometimes they are deaf or they are blind so you have some kind of a website that can read somewhere for them but that's due very important to the ability to see for them on this level but they just cannot read or write so they cannot gain the knowledge from the text so they have to gain the knowledge from the terms or the gender so this would like not be included here for access to all I think it's a good point it might be possible to produce something great from that but I'm kind of blunting it and it's so colleagues but like I say I spent three years working on just trying to measure literacy the normal way of measuring literacy is simply self-reporting it's just the art and a lot of national surveys do ask that question and that's used at the global level too but it's not a very good question but it's probably the best still the only one we've got and it might be possible to then to cross-refer to the use of ICT so you could kind of at least say what percentage of illiterates own the smartphone or computer and it would be interesting to see what idea it has to see what that looks like and whether again in the context of our 300 indicators we would go into that because I suspect it would produce the same result, same map for example but the illiterate people in Thailand would largely be in the rural areas with blue provinces that were there before so it's it's worth looking at and I think in particular your overall point as well is really important so what we're really saying here is which given the fact that the majority of people in Thailand have no problems with phones or computers who are these people who are kind of at risk of being left behind and we want all categories which may be involved there and we need to know what those categories are because that's the nature of the problem so they may not be disabled but if they can't read and write that in itself may be the problem and how to find them Thank you very much I have two questions one is general question and the second one is kind of specific question a general question is that I am still at in the positive digest in your presentation but I understand that the overall point of this IUI is not to describe whether it is good or bad but I can just provide an overall picture over a certain country and I understand that my general question is that it is that concept of IUI then once you go in coming in each one of the indicators it seems like is there any function that is higher is better or answering yes is better it seems like the whole picture of IUI is not good or bad but each indicator seems like you are talking about whether it is good or bad that's the first question the second question is kind of specific question in the accessibility to all there is a question or indicator a question is what professional of the population subscribe and indicator is number of fixed low burn subscription and number of IP addresses my question is that now we are living like a mobile era and to what extent fixed low burn subscription helps what and also same to IP addresses if you are talking about IP34 the issue is that the availability of IP34 but now we are moving to IP36 so what is the actual intention to see number of IP addresses within the country I think it is your first question there is not the sense really trying to see anything as good or bad but obviously for each category there is an understanding that one will move towards recommendations obviously any kind of report tends to have something which shows this is the way forward and I think that is the thrust there but on the other hand there are obviously some indicators which lend themselves more to a clear dynamic of one way or the other and number of internet users is obviously one of those indicators and you want to see moving to 100% and I don't think there is a question about that so the broadband and IP addresses I think the simplest thing to say is that it is a global standard and in certain countries it is going to be more relevant than others and I think it is less so in Thailand but for example I am shorty to go to work not on this area but in Liberia in Africa and in Liberia the problem is actually no electricity so there is good cell phone coverage everywhere but there is no way to charge your cell phone and so fixed lines and broadband and fixed posts tend to be the way forward still in Liberia and it is extremely difficult to eat on that side so thank you very much so I understand that after you contacted analysis of Thailand then it is up to like a Thailand government or Thailand people in which area or indicators they will focus on or focus on their own people and also we call it indicators actually it is statistically it is not all of them are not indicators they are like standards and of course there is a vision behind indicators because UNESCO advocates for an internet in which everyone on which everyone can access to the internet in which everyone can express freely their opinion without you know being put in a jail and so the indicators behind the right it is also there is a vision and an intention behind for an internet to be human right based open accessible so on You might have a follow up question and say well if that costs Thailand what is UNESCO doing so I think why is this what is this UNESCO and can correct me or add to it if I go wrong but it is also a sense that this is a statement where Thailand is on the internet so many people in the global internet well or in UNESCO of course will be able to pick up reports and say well this is what the internet looks like in Thailand and this is what the internet I am reading very well and then in in Africa this is what the internet looks like and then in not to say that one is better or worse than the other but just to get and for me yes well I think that the internet is now in saying to people I was at the meeting of ITU in Geneva last week and they were saying that the internet is going beyond technology with the internet the things nowadays people don't know whether they are on the internet or not and I get in my car I don't whether my GPS is using a satellite or the internet we only have these things plugged in our brain in a few years time so it is also a sense that the internet is taking different character in different parts of the world so as I said again here you see the financial payment systems which are really advanced but similar to China there is a nation perspective in North America they are not advancing on payment so they are going in a different direction and maybe again what this will do over time is we will see a different character of the internet in different regions and different places and that will come out of these as well and we are positive as much as anything Thank you Simon. Any last questions before we break? Yes please