 Okay, I've started the recording. So now is the time not to say anything that you don't want others to hear. Anyway, the first thing is this is Hyperledger community. It's open source and open community. There are no restrictions on who can listen in, who can participate. Obviously we ask you to be respectful to the presenters. And if anybody, you know, so we have two principles. One, we have to obey the antitrust policy of any jurisdiction that you're participating from. That is the first requirement. The second is a code of conduct that we are respectful and we are not disagreeable even when we disagree. That is the second. So anybody who does not want to obey these two principles can now log off and disconnect. Otherwise you can participate. And here is, we are glad to have Carlos Pastor who first reached out to me. And then we also have the illustrious Koti de Bonta Verde and Paola Pasquale. They all have two pillars. One is their own company and then Alastria. So Koti is the head of blockchain and crypto in Santander, Banco Santander. Well, I am sure that there are other appellations for Santander. The other is Paola Pasquale who is the blockchain lead in crypto and blockchain. She's a project manager and Carlos is from Inetum, which is a IT services firm and he's a blockchain strategist. But they are also members of Alastria and in Koti's case, she's also the sponsor of the Alastria ID. So please welcome these presenters and let us hear from them about practical implementation of SSI and the problems they faced and the challenges they faced and how they overcame them. Thank you. Thanks a lot, Bipin. Good afternoon all. On behalf of Alastria, we appreciate the opportunity that we have today to present its identity model, practical implementation of self sovereign identity of SSI. So for those that have not heard about Alastria before, let me give you a quick introduction to it. Alastria is the first national nonprofit blockchain association in the world. It was set up with the aim of promoting the digital economy through the development of decentralized ledger technologies. It is a multi-sector association and has over 500 members from leading corporates and public institutions to small and medium enterprises. And it has built a public permission network that has over 100 nodes. Since its foundation, in order to achieve legally binding transactions in this network, Alastria's priority has been building a digital identity mechanism for individuals and for corporates. And Alastria is seeking, let me move to the next here. Alastria is seeking to democratize access to blockchain by providing the necessary tools to promote access, adoption and use of this technology. Competition is a formula promoted by Alastria. So members collaborate together, building the infrastructure, the ID and they compete on the applications that they build on top of it. It is a network agnostic association offers the networks promoted by its members. And we have currently three networks running, network T, which is based on quantum technology and it was released two years ago. As I said, it has 100 nodes or more than 100 right now and around 40 use cases running on it. We've got a network, we call it network B, it's hyperlayer based to base and it was released last year and also hyperlayer fabric network. These networks are being used by the members to develop their proof of concepts and their pilots and there are even some use cases in production. But I mean, this was a brief introduction of Alastria. Alastria became a member very recently of hyperlayer and if you want to learn more, please join the upcoming webinar on the 5th of May that it's going to be organized by hyperlayer where Jesus Rith, member of the board and CTO of Alastria is going to explain how Alastria works so all that they have been doing since 2018, the benefits of using Alastria networks and the use cases that are being built on top of it and also how you can get involved into our association. And now getting more into identity. As I mentioned before since in foundation in order to achieve legally binding transactions on the networks, Alastria priority was building a digital identity mechanism and digital identity model because we are all aware of the problems that we have with our digital identity. So if I ask you the question, how many companies know your email address? Would you be able to answer this question? I think it's very difficult, right? So we don't have a unique digital identity. We have as much identities as organizations we interact with and we have a limited control over our personal data and that is from the user point of view but from the organization's company's point of view, they have inconsistent data, inaccurate, they depend on physical proofs and manual processes that are repetitive expensive, right? So digital identity is currently fragmented and insecure. And this is something that it's well-known in Europe and the European Commission has already announced that they are working to propose a secure European digital identity where citizens where us, we can control our data, what data we are sharing, how is it going to be used? And this fits very well with the concept of SSI of Subsorbing Identity. So why blockchain for SSI? Because blockchain is one of the best alternatives to implement it. I mean, you could use another technology but by using blockchain, you maximize transparency and security. Cryptography allows the possibility of signing and verifying the origin of the credentials without needing a third party. And here in our model, we are registering in blockchain the hashes of the credentials as well, the events of their issuance, presentation and revocation. So it's assuring us that they cannot be altered and it's making it GDPR compliant, being totally user centric. Obviously, this system does not require any third parties that act as intermediaries who can use and read our personal data. The most obvious benefit here is privacy. So instead of having critical pieces of personal information like license numbers, social security information, et cetera, stored at those and if not hundreds of different locations, the information remains with the individual. The individual is, in this case, is the only entity with the authorization to disclose or allow access to sensitive information and also controls the level and duration of external access. And now I'm pleased to hand over to Carlos Pastor. He's the leader of the Identity Commission. I'm the sponsor, but he's a leader and he's going to give you a deep dive of the identity model. So Carlos, I think you can control now the presentation. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. I'm very happy to be here to share with you some of our experience in implementing this last ID and the problems that we have faced and the decision that we have taken in that process. Okay, sorry. It's okay. Well, first of all, I would like to share with you that this last ID has been, is the result of a collaborative effort. There are more than 200 members that have been collaborating with that definition and not just the people, but also functional people, legal people and people that is right today, putting that in the market and using the real use of that last ID model. On the one hand, we have also been aware of a standardization of four from W3C, but it's the model that we follow for a financial observation, but also we have been contributing to some other standardization of four. In particular, we have been collaborating with, I know that is the Spanish Standard Organization and we have approved the first, probably the first official standard standard from an official standardization body about identity management based on DLP that has been approved past December. And also we are collaborating, we have contributed that standard to the Sentinel Standardization, European Standardization Body, and we are working with a GTC 19 group in order to standardize the management of identity at the European Board, at the European Board. And then also we have been contributing to the European Initiative, especially the EVP, the European Blockchain Partnership, one of the more important effort of that group that this EVP has is the members of that EVP are all the member state plus a couple of non-European members. And then one of the main efforts is EPC, that is a European Blockchain Service Infrastructure, that is a real network that is going to provide services, start with the Public Administration Services, but open in the future to private sector services. And one of the use case of that European Blockchain infrastructure is going to be, is the ASIF, that is European Sovereign Identity Framework, that has taken as a cornerstone, as a building foundation piece, a last-day model that has been contributed to the, from the beginning. And there are also other projects that we're going to cover at the end of this presentation that are in the Italian, where there are other projects that are using that model and are going to align with ASIF in the future. So at the end, the circle is complete. We can say right now that probably ASIF is the son of Alastairi, but probably the son is becoming bigger than the father. And now we are going to follow the son, the ASIF, in order to align with ASIF. Well, the model is very typical of identity. There are three goals, the issuer of credential, the issuer that has to attest something and sign that attestation, that credential and sharing that credential to the user. And the user then can share the information of their service provider in the end to get a service. First of all, the user asks for some credential. The issuer, after checking that they have the credential and can sign an attested credential, send them the information to the user through a private channel that is not told at this point related to blockchain. It can be HTTPS or any other secure channel. We are talking to be more, to use an example. For example, the driving license, the tar or the fact that time over 28, 25 or time over 18. This information is stored under the control of the user in the user wallet. That can be a wallet application, a cloud wallet, whatever that is under the control of the user. Then when the user wants to receive a service, a service, the service provider that is calling other modern reliant party or very fire is exactly the same, the same role. But in Alaska, we call it from the beginning service provider. And then ask for some information through a presentation request. It's very similar to a presentation, but it's used to, it's an extension of the W3C, and it's used to request some information and including the level of customer of that information. Then the user help of the wallet selects the appropriate information and presents, say, sign it, that information to the service provider. In that presentation, in addition to the credentials that has been selected by the user, is also the post, for example, in a car, in that case, for which that presentation is related. So, and also every role in this scheme has a distributed data, the ID, the user, the user, the service provider to control the credentials, the presentation and everything. Of course, every one of those role players, the user, the service provider can have one, at least one or more ADS. Everything is controlled by the user as a mobile application, as a first implementation, can be also via cloud wallet that is able to provide that functions to the user, management of the generation of the AD, the credentials, the presentation and also can be used for authentication. What is a credential? Credential is based on the model of the WCC and has all this information. The network where this information is going to be anchored, it's going to be registered, not to store but register the action that I am going to do every AD one is going to do about the credential, the subject, the ID. So, is the information, the ID to which that credential is linked and rated, the level of assurance. So, the degree of transworthiness that you can, that the process of issuing the credential ensures is not the same for some point. If a bank issues a credential about the credit card, can have almost a complete trust over that information. If this issue in a credential, the same bank issue a credential about the EHH, all the transworthiness is not the same, probably that information about the EHH is provided by the policy or your official public administration can reach a level three and also initial date, initial value of the date and value of the date, the issuer of the credential and of course the signature. For a presentation is the aggregation of a certain number of credentials plus some other information, the initial value of the date, optionally the end value of the date. So, if you look at the service provider, the right party is obliged to erase that information at a given date, then the service provider AD AD. So, this presentation is only addressed to that service provider. So, only that service provider can use legally that information. Also, then a description and a link to the business process that is related in the example is the renting a car. So, this information can only be used for renting a car, not for any other thing and of course the service signal. So, up to that, we haven't used the presentation. Now, the presentation appears first of all to be able to publicly validate the signatures of all the credentials and presentation. So, the public key or a hash of the public key is stored in the blockchain. The fourth part is to be able to check the signatures that are included in credentials and presentations. Then another layer, another information is also in the blockchain that is related to the status, to the actions that are performed over those credentials and presentation. First of all, when the user issues the credential, Recorsa has not contained any information about the credential, but a reference that has issues used as a reference and the status of the credential that is at that time sent. When the user receives that credential, also writes on the, can write on the ledger that the user has to shift that credential. Those has are different. We are going to explain in details how they are calculated in order to avoid any correlation of that information that is in the ledger. Only the people, the actors involving that sharing of information can understand that information is stored in the ledger and the same for the presentation. When the user sends the presentation, you can record in the ledger that the user has sent that presentation and also the service provider can receive, can record the blockchain that it has received that presentation. All this recording is optional and it will depend mainly on the use case. So not for every use case, all this recording is useful, but for example, if I present some information in front of a public administration, I want to have a digital evidence that I've done that and the confirmation from the public administration that they have received that information. And then as an additional function, when the service provider receives a presentation that is inside the presentation, one of those that is inside the envelope representing the presentation, receives a given credential and can check the status of that credential on the machine. So for example, can ensure the time where that information has been issued by the credential beside the information that is inside the credential because this information cannot be forget about information that is inside the credential, even if it is signed, can be more or less tested. Then to stress that no person, no type of personal information is stored in the machine, but only digital evidences about actions. And these references that the evidences are done in a way that are not correlated. How do those assets that are mentioned in the previous slide are calculated? We use two different assets for the issuer of the credential and for the user, the receiver of the credential. The first one, the asset that is going to be used by that case Santander about the passport or about the credit card or about any other thing is first of all signed. This signature is included in the verified credential and we also concatenate the DID of the issuer, the DID of Santander in that case, in order to calculate the hash. So we calculate a hash that is related to the credential but is also related to the DID of the issuer of the credential. In the same way, a second hash is calculated for the user, for the subject, the user to use that to refer to the very same credential. So the credential in both assets is exactly the same, include the signature to ensure enough entropy, but they are calculated two different hashes about the same credential, one to be used by the issuer, by Santander, another to be used by the site. In the same way, two other different hashes are calculated for the presentation. One concatenated to the presentation, the DID of the subject, the user that is going to send the presentation to the service provider and another different hashes related to the same, to the very same presentation, concatenating the DID of that case, the service provider, the rental car company. So calculating a different a fourth hash. In some times, this model of calculating four different hashes about the credential and the presentation that they put that credential is called a four-way hashes. So those hashes are useful to store the evidence of the issuance of a credential and the presentation of a presentation in front of a service provider. But this is not the whole life cycle of a credential or presentation. What happens, for example, if my credential is lost or I close my contract with the back. So if I keep the credential, if I keep any certification about, for example, the ownership of a bank account, any other type of credential, if I keep the digital evidence, the credential about that, I can still be using. So the issuer really needs a way to revoke that credential in case that credential becomes invalid. And the way to do that in that model that avoids the direct relationship with the service provider, the issuance, and this cannot be to say to the user, please stop using that because the user can't keep the story here using that. The issuer cannot say to the service provider, please stop using that, not entirely, because the issuer really don't know to whom the user has shared that type of credentials. So the issuer cannot address to the service provider, saying, please stop using that because it's not any longer true and cannot do that not using intermediate time that is going to be the project. And the same for the user. When the user wants to press the information that has shared for example, for renting a car, can address to the service provider, but what really happens in the real life is that for that, the user needs the collaboration of the service provider. If the collaboration wants to just ignore that communication just avoiding recognizing the knowledge that communication is very difficult for the user to be sure that the user, the service provider has got the communication about the suppression of the presentation of the presentation. So here the blockchain goes to the rescue. How the issuer can revoke a credential that has been issued. Once to the credential revocation start writing something in the blockchain. So updating the status of that credential from send to vote in a way that the service provider, any service provider receives an event and can check at any time the credential status. So they know that that credential is no longer valid and can ask another new credential to the user for the then current information. The same happened when the user wants first of all to revoke a presentation to suppress the information that has been shared with a service provider. The only thing that he needs to do, she needs to do is change the status of that presentation from send to suppress, asking the suppression of the presentation. Then the service provider is going to receive an update of the status of that presentation. So he knows that this presentation is already suppressed and can no longer use. And under certain conditions of use of presentation, the service provider is obliged to stop using that unless the service provider that information for legal purposes in front of force or something like that, but cannot continue using an operational way that information. And this information, this update of the information in the blockchain is done by the user without any help from the user, any collaboration from the service provider. So can be done in a way completely, in a completely autonomous way with the help of any other of the service provider or no other user. So can be done completely in his own. So the action for the service provider is going to update also the status related to the service provider fast about that same very simple presentation to suppress. And that completes the circle. What is already implemented of all those all the things that are related to the smart contracts and the things that are inside the blockchain are completely implemented by Alastria a library to make easier to use those smart contracts is also implemented by Alastria and a service API is also implemented by Alastria. So anyone can use this mobile. What is not implemented by Alastria that is going to be implemented in a competitive way by the members of Alastria but not by Alastria in a collaborative way but by competing the consortium is the part that is related to the service provider and the issuer and also the wire. And there is a reference implementation implemented by Alastria but this just a very demo reference implementation just to show that everything works but is not meant to be used for commercial purposes. So members of Alastria or any other way any other entity, any other company or public administration that is willing to use that model needs to implement so where that is related is required to the issuer of credential or the exception of credentials. This is because Alastria is an association and cannot compete with members but in some cases are IT companies that want to provide that as a service. All the documentation is available and all the information is open source and can be used by anybody and it's available. These are the reference where the presentation that is also available to anybody and you can check all the information there. And then I give the floor to Paula that is going to cover the practical implementation. Perfect, thank you so much Carlos. So we are going to see the practical implementation through different examples of projects that are currently using the Alastria identity model but before we want to highlight the different benefits that these decentralized digital identity models have for the user and also for the different companies. As Cody was mentioning we are providing the users to access to services immediately. In fact, for example, one demo that we prepared using the Alastria identity wallet was one user requesting a loan that could be approved on the spot because the user was providing in this case Banco Santander with information that has been already verified by other entities. Also, as we were saying there is a greater control of the data usage of the user because thanks to blockchain and the traceability the user can know exactly who is sharing his information with for how long and for what purpose. Also, we are also facilitating the different exercises of the rights provided by the GDPR because we are providing the users with a one-click revocation process that is unique for all the service providers. So we are allowing the users saying in the blockchain hey, I want you to delete my data and this is publicly registered. Also, thanks to the double hash mechanism that Carlos has explained we are assuring completely the privacy of the user because no third party can really know the user's activity in the blockchain thanks to that double hash mechanism because all the hashes are different one to another. Also, this is very important that we highlighted there is no data trading because the issuer can know where the user is using their data with. And also, and this is a very good business advantages as we are having more information about the user and this is more accurate. We can offer discounts and bonuses to the different users because for example, in the example that I was saying that a user was requesting a loan to a bank using a verifiable credentials. If we can know that for example that user has an ex credit scoring with another bank or he's a good payer because he has already requested other loans to other banks and he has already paid them we can offer them a lower interest rate. This happens also for example if we are talking about driving the insurances companies that for example can offer a discount or better conditions in the insurance policy if they know that that user is a good driver for example. Of course, there are also benefits for the companies we are improving our customer satisfaction level because we are eliminating all those forms and documentation that the user needs to provide us with. We are also improving the data quality above all thanks to the level of assurance that it's already embed into the different credentials according to the EIDAS regulation here in the European Union. And also we are facilitating the regulatory compliance of the different companies. On the other hand, we are reducing the charm rates because of that fact that we are eliminating those forms or documentation that the user needs to give us. Also we are reducing a lot all the information verification costs, the cost that we are having in our back offices because of reviewing all the information that the user is providing to us. And also we are reducing the problems of privacy and security because this is a decentralized model and there is no essential repository of data. Also I would like to show to you that this decentralized digital identity system responds to a real need. And why am I saying that? Because we have carried out different user investigations. We carried out those investigations before and after the COVID-19 pandemic because of course the perceptions of the users were different. You all know the different, for example, COVID tracking apps that they were releasing to the market. So we were analyzing the perception of the users regarding the privacy of their data. Some of the examples of these user investigation that we have carried out, they are desk research, different interviews and also an online survey with more than 1,400 users. The main insights of course, apart from the acceleration of digitalization as a means of personal and work relationships, we discovered that there is a generalized perception of obligation in the transfer of data and this was reinforced after the COVID-19 pandemic. And also a very good insight is that there is a fear of the use of personal data without their own knowledge and they are demanding for greater control over this data. Also the public administration and the banking companies, they were perceived as safer organizations in the protection of the data. Once that we know this, we are going to show you some examples of different projects that they have different goals and they are based on the Alastria Identity Model. First of all, we have Dalian. As you can see, there are different companies. They are very big companies here in Spain and this is a multi-sectoral consortium. We have different banks, utilities. We have insurances companies and also the public administration as an observer. And why we are building an ecosystem like this because if we are talking about building a unique digital identity, we already have that digital identity fragmented in different silos. So it is needed that all the companies we join together and we can provide as much information about the user as we can. So the user can really have one unique identity with all the enough attributes to be able to access to any type of services. Also, one of the biggest challenges that we are facing with we are building decentralized digital identity is to build that ecosystem and that digital identity of the user from scratch. As we are a company that we already have data about the user, we are solving this challenge from the very beginning because the only thing we need to do is to transform that data that we already have about those users in a centralized way into a decentralized model in a self sovereign identity model through different verifiable credentials. So this data that we are already having to the user we can say, hey, I can issue to you different verifiable credentials signed by me about this data. So you will be able to use it to access any service that you want. And also, of course, these companies here in Spain we have a potential to reach 30 million users in Spain. Of course, we are counting on this public administration of service because of the same fact, we are talking about one unique digital identity. So it doesn't make sense to have one digital identity for the private sector and another for the public sector. So we are trying to go together into this mission of building the self sovereign identity concept in Spain. So here in Dalian, we are launching our MVP in the quarter two of this year. And also it's important to mention that we are presenting this model, this project to the regulatory sandbox that has been approved here in Spain and probably the next week, we will know if we finally got approved and we can pilot this project with the public administration. Another project that we are having is digitalis. The difference between digitalis and Dalian is that Dalian is focused on the digital identity of the final user and in digitalis they have a focus on the supplier management. So we are talking about the identity of non-physical person. It's about companies. They are, of course, using the Alaska identity model they are trying to build a unique identity for companies that they are acting as a supplier or as a buyer and the suppliers can manage their own identity facilitating the sharing of certifications reducing costs and increasing security. In Dalian, we were talking that we are building a model for final users, so the wallet will be a mobile application. In this case, as we are talking about companies, the wallet is therefore on a server. As you can see, also digitalis is following a multi-sector approach because we can find also insurances, companies, banking, utilities, et cetera. Another related projects with Alastria ID, we have Uport that they have shown a lot of interest on an Alastria identity compatible wallet. Also, we have KTrust by Everest that it's a consultant here in Spain. So they have complete suite for identity ecosystem. They have a compatible wallet with our model and they have several projects that they are carrying out with different actors. Also, we have the project of B-Chain that has been developed by the ID. So they are focusing on onboarding New York customer and anti-money laundering processes and they are collaborating with Alastria, Sovereign, and Deep. And last but not least, we have Botun. They are developing voting solutions. They are focusing on industry-specific credentials and they are blockchain agnostic. So they are not just working with one blockchain network but with many of them. Taking advantage that we have Carlos Pasteur in this meeting that he is the convener of the European Self-Sovereign Identity Framework. I think that Carlos, you can present better this slide. I'm going to give you back the control of the screen. Okay, thank you very much. Well, as I said, the SIF project is inside EBSC that is an initiative of all the member states of the European Union. And well, it's version two is going to be released by May. Probably there is going to be some delay that could be May, June of this year. So there is going to be a V2 version that where some countries that have stepped as early adopters are going to deploy some real but limited in the sense of the people that is going to use that pilots. And those are the use case that they are in the first wave in yellow, the SIF, the diploma that is related. They say it's really a special use application of the SIF model to diploma starting with university diplomas and then extending to any type of certification. The notarization that is really meant to notarize things on the blockchain, documents mainly, documents on the blockchain. And tested data sharing that is a special case for cross-border taxes payment. And then new use cases are just starting to work about a unique social security number, a coordination for refugees and debt and equity finances for SMEs for small and medium-end enterprises. Yes, to show that this is something related they are very similar to what we have presented. This is an official slide from the project where you can see that everything is more or less in the same line that Alastair has mentioned before using aspect of blockchain that is the European blockchain services infrastructure and making also action over the blockchain as a revoking and so on. And that these are not going to be limited if it's version two, the revoking, but it's in the realm of future versions. And then we proposed some, yes, the next step. We invite you to see the open source that is in the information that I gave to you before and to say that we are open to collaboration, any collaboration in the model has been open from the beginning to anybody. There are at least 11 Alastair members that are not Spanish companies or Spanish institutions that are foreign institutions. So everybody is welcome and say that we are working in interoperability with ESIF and we are very happy to start working in interoperability with your community. And the last step that they propose is an invitation for the Hyperlegia Identity Working Group to speak to the Alastair community in a webinar that can be set up at your convenience. And then we are, of course, open to your questions or to any other thing that you want. Thank you so much for all the great, for the great presentation and two things. One is there's Luca who's asked the question here which is a very technical question. Is the API Swagger offered on some central Alastria node or is it exposed by each single network node? Thanks. Luca is... Can you repeat the question so I can get to the beginning? Is the API, Swagger API, offered on some central Alastria node or is it exposed by each single network node? Yeah, it's exposed by every single network node or even any other institution that can provide that service and use another node that is provided by any other company. So two pieces that can be deployed everywhere. I have a couple of questions. Hopefully I won't just dominate the questions. The first is, you know that there has been a lot of work in the canonicalization of verifiable credentials. So are you aware of that work and are you following that and how do you propose to do the canonicalization? That's the first question. Okay. Shall I get it? Yeah, sure. Okay, yeah. We are aware... There are many standardizations... Sorry. Canonicalization. Canonicalization of credentials. We are aware of some... For example, in the Diploma Use case on Asif, they are using the EuroPASS to standardize the Diploma related credentials. So we are getting that semantic model and... Well, this semantic model is translated into XML in that case for EuroPASS and we are using the same semantic model but translating it to GVT in order to GWT format in order to be used inside Asif and of course in Alastair we can use the same model. We are not working in that. We are focusing on the transportation layer you want in the sharing layer not in the semantic that is on top of that. For some use cases inside the Dalian project, we are going to standardize also some credentials and we are happy to align with any wider thoughts in that sense. Yeah. I mean, this is a very interesting topic because as soon as you start using hashes, you basically have the same credential. However, it is presented hash to the same value. I mean, the equivalence of two credentials. If we can explain the canonicalization, it is basically order is important, empty things are important, that we either strip out the empties or we impose a semantic ordering on the elements or even though they conform to the same example schema. Anyway, let's not dive deep into this. Yes. I go more to the standardization than the canonicalization. In that case, we are not completely aware of that thought. I think that is a great idea, but I think that this, as far as I know, I don't know very much. We are still. We can interact later. Yes. I mean, because you place hashing at the center of your model, that's why I asked the question, not because of I want to dive deep into the. So one more question before I give Jim the floor. The other question is about the digitalist, because you said that you are going to have a central wall. I mean, you know, server side wallet. So there are two aspects to this, right? One is do you interact with Glyph, which is the global legal entity identity foundation? Two is Glyph has started laying out some path because even though enterprises have the wallet, it is actually roles in the enterprises, like for example, Cody probably can sign certain documents that you cannot sign because she is on a different level. So even though the enterprise wallet is for enterprises, it is actually the roles in the enterprises that interact with the, with the wallet. So will, will you make that available also on the roles, you know, on wallets that are held by people, not just held in a central server. Paula probably can. Okay, perfect. I'm not part of the consortium. So this should be answered by digitalist. As far as I know, they are not having conversations with that organization. But yes, of course they are, at the end there are final users who they are signing, for example, different documents on behalf of their company. So they are solving that part. Of course in Dalian and that we are focusing on the, on the final user digital identity. We also need to solve this issue because for example, if I want to sign something on behalf of my company, I would like to have two different verifiable credentials through my mobile application. Once it's that I am Paula Pascal. So this is an identification verifiable credential and another that I am capable of signing documents on behalf of my company. So I think this is a very interesting point. And maybe we can interact later and we can start to study that part because as I'm saying, we are focusing on the final user, but of course we will need to go into the company's identity. And I think we should analyze that very, I think it's very important to do that. Sure, there are a lot of questions on the chat, but I don't think we can answer all of them. But I think since Jim has his hand raised, I'm sure he's a, he's a, he's always a questioner. So let's hear Jim. Thanks, Bippin. And I thank you very much for this awesome presentation that technology you're driving toward is really critical. And I had the opportunity last year to work on an SSI implementation for an MVP solution for US state. And we in the sense followed the same process, the same design you did. So we were doing, we had the issuer in this case was the state and they were issuing licenses, if you will. We had identities issued on individuals. We had identities issued on firms. Everybody had either enterprise wallets or personal wallets. And then we issued credentials back and forth for different kinds of things, including hiring. So for instance, I could hire Paula as an accountant in my firm and we issued you an employment credential, that kind of thing. And when I did the hiring, we did use a role based access control. So I was doing that as an HR manager that had the authority, if you will, to issue that credential. All of that said, I think we cheated, being lazy and not wanting to spend a lot of time. We actually started with that pan Canadian trust framework built on Indie areas, right? And we took the bond solution. And all we did really is literally extend that, which worked out really well. So literally the entire project was done in like four months. So we have an MVP. It absolutely is not a production implementation because there's a whole lot of things on scale. But the good news, at least as we know the wallet scales large and more than large enough for what the state is going to be to do with identities and credentials, because it's a small state. It's not a big state, which is a good thing. But that said, I'm trying to figure out, are you, I missed part of the questioning piece, but I know you're using some stuff from Hyperledger. I'm not sure if you're using all the things that are out there in the identity space or did you build your own stack for that? Yes, we did. We started more or less at the same time. And we are, of course, looking over false, but really we are concentrating in building something simple, but effective. There are some other implementation possible. There are many ways of implementing this paradigm of SSI. And that's why we are very interested in knowing more about what Hyperledger community is doing. We tried something from in the past to reach Hyperledger, but due to some internal problems, probably we didn't get a good connection with Hyperledger. And now we are happy to run and to apply things that have been done in that community and to apply to our model or to adapt our model to be interproved with other false. So we are open. We probably have not to pay enough attention to other false, but sometimes if you are paying attention to everything that is moving around, you don't advance. And our resources and Spanish Association are quite limited. And we decide to advance and to learn and to propose some things. For example, right now we are absolutely convinced that we have to follow a SIF project because it's a bigger project that is based in the same concepts, but have more resources than the last year. And even some of us that are going to adapt to that. We are happy to adapt also or to use things that have been developed in other projects like Hyperledger areas or something like that, but we have not enough information right now that we can and we are starting to work on that. Yeah, thanks. And that's exactly why we in a sense said the first thing we want to do, this is really using bad words, but I'll say our first goal was to figure out what do we have to do. Our second goal is say, where can I steal all the parts that I need to meet the first goal? And so in that we went shopping so to speak and found that Pan-Canadian Trust framework had a sort of a pre-built version of what we needed. So that's why we stole it. What's kind of important as you know and you've said is the evolving standards. So one of the things is the wallet standards. We don't have a universal wallet yet, but at least we use like an ERC 1155, which is close enough. It's not done, but there's more work there. There's also the verifiable credential standard that W3C put out now, which is the JSON LD format and so on. It gives us something and I know Aries is in the middle of actually rolling that out. So when we get to restart and say move off of MVP and start moving to production in a sense, I want to go back shopping and steal some more. If that makes sense from what's out there. But we had it a little bit this way. I'll say with Aries, we had a great shopping experience. So it was easy. It wasn't hard and it saved a ridiculous amount of time. So we had a very limited budget time and only a couple of developers on it. And we got to the end state that we needed to at least for the MVP. You know, going that route. So thank you. And I'll say there's a ton of applications that you guys will address too. Thanks. We are coming to the end of the hour. I'm sorry, Jim. I'm sorry to have to stop you. But now you can start stealing from my last three year because they are open source too. Anyway, we can interact. I have a bunch of questions on the chat. I can send it to you. If you guys feel like answering them. Beautiful. Go ahead. Answer them. And the other thing is. To get the presentation. In a way that can be shared with other people. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. That is a. Wonderful thing. And a lot of people are on chat saying it is a great presentation. That we are very grateful to. You for taking the time in your evening when you should be relaxing. Having this. Doing this presentation. So thank you all. And. Hope to interact more. Thank you. Thank you. So we are going to talk about capital markets. Special interest group. Which is where half of my. Stuff is so. Maybe we can talk about. The identity. In the larger context of capital markets. What does it allow us to do. In a. To reboot capital markets. And Jim. presentations for other things. So we are all in this together and hope to learn from the best in the field you guys. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And happy to share and happy to host you in a webinar about what has been done in this group. Awesome group in our periodic webinars and Koti, you want to say something else? Thanks a lot for inviting us today and having the opportunity to show you the work that we've done in the last two years. Thanks a lot. Looking forward to collaborating more. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. And I have to close the zoom right now. Thank you. Thank you very much.