 Good evening everyone. My name is Pat Hanlon and I'm serving as acting chair of the Arlington zoning board of appeals for tonight's meeting and I'm calling the meeting of the board to order at 732 p.m. I'd like to confirm that all members and anticipated officials are present so starting with the members of the zoning board of appeals. Mr. Klein. Here. Mr. depart here. Miss Hoffman. Here. Mr. Holy. Here. Mr. LeBlanc. Here. And Mr. Riccardelli. Here. And in case anybody asks, I'm here too. The board's 40 B advisor, Mr. have any here. Mr. Good evening, Mr. have it. The board's peer review consultant to Mr. written from Tetra Tech. I am here. Good evening, everybody. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening, Sean. Town officials, I believe Colleen Ralston, our zoning assistant isn't here. She's enjoying a fridge at temperatures in the Arctic. Vincent Lee, are you here? I am here. Thank you very much for setting us all up in Colleen's absence. I really appreciate your willingness to do that. Appearing for the applicant in. here. The Schwartz. Yes, here. Okay. And in there, I guess I guess I should ask, I'll let Mr. Connor introduce the cast of characters when we finally get to that point. Mr. Connor, is everybody that you expect to be here here? I'm assuming so. I'm calling you Pat from my phone because my electricity is out. So I think bald hill builders is on the line. Utile architecture, semiotus engineering, niche engineering and our consultant, Gabrielle Geller. Okay, I see somebody from all of those companies and the individuals are there. So you all look here. I think that's all that we need to do at this point. On our agenda, we have first a first thing we'll do is introduce remote meetings. This is where everybody could take a little bit of a snooze who hasn't heard this before, of which I think there's almost nobody on this call. But this open meeting of the Arlington Zoning Board of Appeals is being conducted remotely consistent with an act making appropriations for the fiscal year 2023 to provide for supplementing certain existing appropriations and for certain other activities and projects which were signed into law on March 29 2023. This act includes an extension until March 31 2025 of the remote meeting participate provisions of Governor Baker's March 12 2020 executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, which suspended the requirement to hold all meetings in a publicly accessible physical location. Public bodies may continue holding meetings remotely without a forum of the public body physically present at a meeting location so long as they provide adequate alternative access to remote meetings. Public bodies may meet remotely as so long as reasonable public access is afforded so that the public can follow along with the deliberations of the meeting. An opportunity for public participation will be provided during the public comment period of each public hearing. For this meeting, the Arlington Zoning Board of Appeals has convened a video conference via the Zoom application with online and telephone access as listed on the agenda posted to the town's website identifying how the public may join. This meeting is being recorded and it will be broadcast by ACMI. Please be aware that attendees are participating by a variety of means. Some attendees are participating by video conference others by computer audio or by telephone. Accordingly, please be aware that other folks may be able to see you and your screen name or another identifier. So please take care not to share personal information. Anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording. We ask that you please maintain the forum during the meeting including displaying an appropriate background. All supporting materials that have been provided to the members of this body are available on the town's website unless otherwise noted. Public is encouraged to follow along using the posted agenda. As chair, I reserve the right to take items out of order in the interest of public promoting an orderly meeting but tonight I don't really intend to do this. As the board will be taking up new business at this meeting as chair, I make the following land acknowledgement. Whereas the zoning board of appeals for the town of Arlington, Massachusetts discusses and arbitrates the use of land in Arlington formally known as monotomy and Algonquin word meeting swift waters. The board hereby acknowledges that the town of Arlington is located on the ancestral lands of the Massachusetts tribe. The tribe of indigenous peoples from whom the colony, province and commonwealth have taken their names. We pay our respects to the ancestral body bloodline of the Massachusetts tribe and their descendants who still inhabit historic Massachusetts territories today. So now we've gotten through the formalities. We're back to something new and the first item on our agenda is an administrative item. Items of this kind relate to the operation of the board and as such will be generally inducted without input from the general public. The board will not take up any new business on prior hearings nor will there be introduction of any new information on matters previously bought before the board. The issue on the agenda is approval of the written decision in docket number 3753 at 60 to 62 Magnolia Street. This case was heard by the board on July 27, 2023. A draft opinion was prepared by me and distributed to the board for comment. A revised opinion was distributed by me again earlier this day and is before the board. And I have to alert you that having printed that out just a few moments ago I realized that there were a couple of formatting changes that were made on that final which is ruined the appearance of the whole business because now it has a comment on us a comment column on every page. But none of those comments actually have to do with the text. They all have to do with the length of the line of the signature lines. Does anyone have any further comments or questions on the opinion? Seeing none, the chair will entertain a motion to approve the revised opinion. Mr. Chair, so moved. Mr. Moog, is there a second? Seconded by Mr. Riccardelli. We'll take a roll call vote. Mr. Klein. I was not a voting member of the board on that decision. Do you want my vote? Well, yes, our general practice actually is to have everybody vote, although the only people who are the signing and the operative people are the ones who actually heard the decision themselves. But the so just in an abundance of caution, I just assume have your vote and that of the other people who that there must be one other person who did not participate in that decision as well. In that case, I would vote aye. Mr. DuPont. Aye. Ms. Hoffman. Aye. Mr. Holy. Aye. Mr. LeBlanc. Mr. Riccardelli. Aye. Okay, so the motion carries unanimously. And now we're ready to start on the main item. And that is the continuation of the public hearing in 10 Sunnyside. Before opening the hearings, here's some ground rules for effective and clear conduct of tonight's business. You've heard this before, but not for a few weeks. After I announced the agenda item, which I just did, I will ask the applicants to introduce themselves or and to make their presentation to the board. I'll then request the members of the board ask what questions they have on the proposals. And after those questions have been answered, I will be opening the public hearing. Tonight's hearing is going to be devoted primarily to the initial comments of Mr. Reardon, the board's peer review consultant, who we briefly introduced when we took the roll call in the beginning. These comments will generally address civil engineering and transportation aspects of the case. After Mr. Reardon presents his comments, the applicant will briefly respond. Mr. Reardon will shortly issue a written report addressing a broader range of questions, but including these. That report will be put on the board's website as soon as it becomes available and the board will take up that report and the applicant's more detailed responses at its next meeting. Tonight also the applicant will address some issues that were raised at prior sessions of this hearing. I want to alert everyone that the board will hold several additional sessions of this hearing. At the next session, as I've mentioned before, the board will take up the applicant's response to Mr. Reardon's written report and any additional matters that the board feels that it needs to explore. And I'd encourage all of the members before that hearing to think through whatever and review the record and think through whatever matters that they need additional learning on. The final hearing, which that it well it could be that in terms of dealing with all the factual matters we'll need more than one hearing, but we won't need more than two. The final hearing that we have will be a session where we've got a report, a draft report written or not report, but decision written by Mr. Havardy. The purpose of having this last hearing is to give the public and the applicant an opportunity to express their views on various proposed matters that the draft opinion will address. That I anticipate being one evening and at the end of that evening we will, unless something strange happens, we will close the public hearing in this case. Closing the public hearing in this case is an important thing because one thing we have a time limit within which we have to do that, but also it sets a new time limit for the board to make a decision. It has, as I recall, 40 days after that to decide the case. During that period the board cannot hear from anybody in writing or orally or in any other way secret spirits or whatever until we've decided the case. With the exception that we will be consulting Mr. Havardy on drafting questions and questions of proper form and if necessary we may seek legal opinion from Town Council, but the public, part of the public hearing is now over and we will have to decide the case on our own and without the benefit of further guidance from either the public or the applicant. So we're looking maybe at three more hearings or two depending upon how fast things go and so it's time for us to begin to focus on resolving all the loose ends and making sure that we're able we're able to proceed. With that we'll open the public hearing. I guess the logical thing to do is to hear from Mr. Reardon first and so I'd like to just introduce everyone to him. His role is as board consultant. He is providing us with expert opinion on the matters and having to do with civil engineering and transportation. He is answerable to the board and his function is to assist the board in dealing with some certain technical aspects of the case. Mr. Reardon has served in that capacity before with some distinction and we're very happy Sean to have you to have you here again tonight. To help Mr. Reardon head the floor is yours. Sure so yep again my name is Sean Reardon. I'm a vice president with Tetra Tech. We're a basically a large engineering firm in Marlboro. We're about 15,000 employees worldwide but our focus is mostly on sort of entitlement of land development projects. So a lot of my responsibilities revolve around permitting similar projects and designing similar projects but we also serve as a review authority for a lot of different boards and committees. So first takeaway we reviewed everything that's been submitted to date so far and you know real real important initial takeaway is the submittal quality was excellent right? Everything was readable, well presented, looked great, comprehensive, clean so you know that usually gets things off to a good start and usually portends that the thought behind the project is similar and we found that to be the case as well that you know thought it was well thought everything was well thought complete and in particular we were we were very very happy to see you know such a focus on bike accommodations so rather than sort of having to twist people's arm about providing adequate bikes bike space it seems to be a pretty robust consideration for this project which is good considering its location. Location excellent you know it's got basically few residential butters you know some close by neighborhoods but you know the way I look at this is this is just an extension of the neighborhood because this is just going to be another group of people and homeowners or or renters but you know another residential component that's going to sort of add to the community great access to public transportation it's got to stop right up the street and within a very walkable neighborhood so a lot of service is close by so all good from the initial initial takeaway. We did have a meeting with the applicants team was it last week? Yeah it's like right yesterday was it and really just to preview some of my initial thoughts and comments get some sort of initiation to some action on some of my questions so that we can turn around information quickly no big surprise or scary issues really just a sort of in the interest of disclosing certain things and working through certain issues that people may have haven't thought of your maybe like to see a bit more documentation. Main points that we discussed at that meeting number one sort of the constructability challenges that come from having a building that occupies most of the site that being said they have provided a sort of a reasonable setback along all three or four sides that allows the building to be and their foundations to be constructed with without too much issue. What we did see is a challenge is that the site is surrounded by a retaining wall that holds back the adjoining property so in order to remove that retaining wall there might be some sort of impacts off site that would have to be managed and sort of cleared with the abutters. The other thing we we had hoped to sort of get a clearer understanding from the applicant was is like how are they going to basically support construction. If you figure the entire site is taken up by the building that doesn't leave any space for construction trailer doesn't leave any space for parking of contractors material lay down deliveries things like that. So in the interest of just making sure we all have a similar expectation in mind and the boards informed as informed as possible as what their specific plans are it'd like good to have a little bit more understanding on how that was going to be achieved because there are obviously you know there are public safety issues that are associated with that that I think need to be vetted a little bit. Also to the extent that they're going to need to use the public way I think that's probably helpful to have a discussion similar to the discussion we had at 1025 Mass Ave. Now this is a much lower volume street obviously I was out there earlier today I don't think I saw a single car go by so it's in terms of just its location I don't I don't think it's a sort of a super scary proposition for them to use a portion of the right away but it but it is public way with pedestrian access so it should get discussed and at least sort of quantified in some some way. Then we had some sort of minor concerns about sedimentation and erosion controls again sites going to be almost all building so you know I know their site prep plan has an erosion control barrier that's on the face of curb along the street don't know if that's really a practical thing we want to have happen but we're going to have to need to think that through a little bit so for example yeah there's going to have to be soil stockpiled somewhere it's not going to be on site because they're going to have foundation destruction so we just need to have a little bit better understanding on how they're going to manage material so that we don't find a lot of that stuff finding its way into the street all things that I think are solvable or could be definable as part of a condition or a future submittal prior to a building permit application but things that you know should be sort of bedded a little bit more another issue we talked about was access and parking both like we mentioned during construction I think that's probably one of my bigger concerns is where are all the folks going to go to park during construction because I had an opportunity to talk to the abutting landowner who owns Armont fuel there he was saying it's like when it's time to do inspection stickers you know he's got people queued up on that street all the way up the street waiting for an inspection sticker and then he's got trucks that need to come and go you know in the morning in the evening so you know we want to make sure that anything that the project needs to to compromise the right of way that it's well thought and it's not sort of putting him in a tough spot we also talked a little bit about fire access building is kind of it's small so there's not you know big long walks for fire the fire department the whole front obviously is open they have the the courtyard space really accessible from the street so that's that's not an issue it is bounded on three sides by other properties and the building is probably within four or five feet of the property line so we suggested just getting a bit of confirmation from the fire chief that he's on board with with what they're proposing and in what he needs to do to to respond to it an emergency situation there one of the other things that we talked a bit about too was you know there's no real obvious space for deliveries or service vehicles or trash pickup the street is relatively narrow so it's it's just over 24 feet wide so it doesn't really have a whole lot of room for a parking lane or a dedicated parking lane people do park along that I parked along it and there were a couple other cars there so I think as a practical matter it happens so I don't I don't think there's any sort of criticality to that discussion but it would be nice to sort of get an understanding as to what the project's expectations were then one of the things we talked about too briefly was the the justification for the parking at two one space per two units and the only thing that I was wanted to mention was that the section that they're relying on to do that parking is 615 and it just requires justification so there's usually you can you can take credit for that parking reduction but it does require some justification so perhaps maybe a memo or something to the board that speaks to that requirement or the board could simply wave that requirement as part of the the process then the last thing we discussed was stormwater so something that we talked to sort of a bit about they have an infiltration system proposed underneath the garage this project is kind of in a interesting spot because it doesn't require concom approval it's less than an acre so it doesn't need what's called a nifty's stormwater permit so really the only thing that applies that deals with stormwater is the town stormwater bylaw I didn't see any waiver requests from that bylaw and that bylaw is pretty tough so what I would suggest is consider if there are things in that that really are too heavy of a lift to make sense and maybe perhaps consider asking for a waiver from the board from certain aspects of that bylaw and you know the site is from a stormwater standpoint I mean at one point it was a completely impervious site right I had a building and it was all paved now it's got all sorts of sort of stuff stockpiled around that sort of make it appear like it's not impervious but I would consider what's being proposed there as a sort of a net benefit clearly a benefit to water quality because basically it's clean roof water so I would hate to see the project sort of jump through hoops or try to spend a bunch of money to sort of meet a hurdle for water quality when the project is clearly an improvement over current conditions and also similarly it's it's pretty close to a net zero gain on impervious so again I would I would see if there's ways that we can sort of look at the requirements of the local bylaw and and sort of consider some relief there to to make it a little bit more achievable or a little bit easier to comply with and the last thing I noticed that I didn't discuss at the meeting the other day but I just didn't see a lighting plan or anything as part of the submittal so if if there's anything that the project team has related to lighting it would be good to get that on the record that being said like Mr. Hanlon said I'm going to put a letter together in this case I want to take a little bit more time because I'm trying to make it as much of a closure letter as possible because I think all the issues can be handled relatively straightforward I just need to sort of pick the right words and the right recommendations to to sort of help Paul close them out properly but again great project great team great submittals just a few things that just need to be discussed for the purposes of getting everybody expecting the same things going forward okay thank you Mr. Gruden I think that the more sufficient way to do this subject to the if there's any board member who wishes to ask questions of Mr. Gruden right now you could do that but I wonder it might be more efficient to hear a response from the applicant first and then to deal with both at the same time so with your consent I would propose to do that seeing no objection so Connor I guess will turn it over to you to be Mr. Mr. Zustairz-Meis thank you Mr. Hanlon I think we'll start with Utile Architecture and Bald Hill Builders first to address not only the matters raised by Mr. Redd and Tetra Tech but some of the other the board's other concerns such as the shadow study on Michael Street so if I could Nick or Rochelle sure well I don't I think it's probably best to introduce Matt Gross Handler who's from Bald Hill Builders and our pre-construction advisor at this point and we've been working with Matt and his team well Utile has actually worked with Matt and his team on a number of affordable housing projects and we recently brought them on board to work with Housing Corporation of Wellington on this project and we've had a few initial meetings it's obviously very early in the process to have a lot of detailed information but I think the issue that Sean brought up about constructability and a construction management plan or spot on and we have had some initial thoughts about that and I'll invite Matt to maybe share some high-level thinking and I'm happy to answer any any questions or add anything that might be relevant to the design based on that absolutely and I thank you Matt Gross Handler with Bald Hill Builders I was writing feverishly as Mr. Rudin was speaking I think I caught about a dozen notes there probably nine of which fall under our purview anyway so might as well take the first bite at the apple just by quick background again Matt Gross Handler with Bald Hill we are commercial builders contractors and the majority of our work is affordable housing multi-family projects majority of it is in urban infill type settings so we're no stranger to zero outline sites tight urban infill redevelopment brownfield sites this is what we do is our bread and butter I think we have eight of them under construction right now all in the same exact size magnitude and type of product range with that being said and I will go through Mr. Rudin's list here and just comment on some of the items I will say that your point was spot on about ultimately agreeing to and submitting a formal construction management plan a CMP we will do that we'll work with the DPW with fire with traffic with police with Mr. Rudin and his team to make sure that ultimately that all of the issues have been addressed in the final submission but in doing so our intent is to stay within the confines of our site with some minor caveats to the extent that we're working outside of the site it would be with the permission and cooperation of butter or for instance the town and that would hold true I think in almost all regards talked about the site being constrained on three sides in fact that is the case we've actually done cut-throughs and sections through all three of those elevations we do believe that there'll be combination of different SOE soil retaining systems that we'll put in whether it be soldier piles and lagging or in some cases we may use a concrete bin blocks depending on the depth of the cut and the impact to the adjacent properties who will make sure that that work is being done in a way that's coordinated and calculated such that the work is relatively confined to our property and if not then certainly with the permission of the butters to that and the only other thing I could think of that may fall outside of our line is on the fourth property line which is the where the sidewalk is and where we but sunny side the right of way as it exists today it's a it's an asphalt sidewalk part of the project obviously includes cleaning that up clean doing utility tie-ins there's a significant amount of work that really happens along along sunny side to both facilitate the project and to improve the neighborhood upon completion of the job our intent would be to work with again DPW Mr. Reardon and others to perhaps take not just the sidewalk but maybe up to just pass that curb line even put the simple act of putting in curbing typically requires a couple of feet beyond the curb itself to actually set the curb and get it embedded properly and and so on so we would look to put whether it's a fence line or a jersey barrier line along sunny side and again we'd work with with others on exactly how that's accomplished we would redirect traffic to accept there is foot traffic redirect traffic to the other side we'll make sure there's proper signage in place we'll make sure there's barriers in place for pedestrian safety and so on so I think with regard to the actual property lines the fence will be site will be fenced in will maintain safety and obviously ocean compliance all throughout the project beyond that how do you support the set so I think that answers hopefully the first question again that'll all be articulated in a plan that will submit for consideration and will include other people's feedback as well with regard to the second point which was how to support construction through trailer and lay down and so on in a perfect world I'd love to tell you that all of our jobs have trailers that's not always the case sometimes we end up building or accelerating the construction of a particular component on site to allow for allow for a field office in the field itself we're actually doing on a couple of jobs right now where we may accelerate the construction of the bike storage room for instance and make that a temporary field office in other instances we may rent either some parking space from a butter or rent a local apartment or a local storefront and have just an adjacency to the site not not physically on the site our goal typically is to avoid putting trailers in the right of way mostly because I can move fences I can move jersey barriers and then have a snow emergency it's much harder to to go and disconnect utilities and really work with local municipality to to make that a safe environment so we try to avoid putting trailers in the street so lay down and trailer so most of the urban work we're doing lay down really doesn't exist a ton on site we end up changing our logic and in our logistics and how we build such that we end up live loading an awful lot of well first of all live loading debris and soils to be removed both through the demolition and through the site process but also live loading concrete structures and steel and concrete and would frame members and so on throughout the project so we would have typically like a designated delivery lane that we would work with municipality again on how to coordinate that to the extent there's ever a crane day or something that would require one-way traffic we'd work with police and fire on access and police details and so on but we'd make sure that it's always done in a safe and work-like manner I think that addressed to again feel free anybody who has any questions feel free to interrupt me as I go regarding number three public safety that is our first and foremost priority not just public safety but also worker safety and so anything that we need to do to maintain a fully safe and compliant site is going to be the number one objective of the job we always say in our company that everybody goes home safe everybody goes home every night and that's a major component to the way we run work so making sure that again we talked about you know relocating the public you know the pedestrian way sometimes we'll go in and strive temporary crosswalks or you know certainly with signage at a minimum and so we'll work with DPW and others on that the fourth item I think I kind of hit already which is the access in the public way the goal would be to minimize disruption and interruption I do recognize Mr. Reardon pointed out adequately that there's not a lot of traffic on that road I think that works in our favor I don't know if anybody here cares but a quick little side note I just came back from a trip out in Canada with my son and I was joking because everywhere you turn around there were these cranes parked in the middle of the street and they just the city's just let them shut the roads down I can tell you we do a lot of work at Sunville, Lawson, Cambridge and I don't think we ever shut roads down it's always our goal to maintain public way as much as possible although it would be nice it's never our first option the fifth item you mentioned was around sedimentation and erosion control so the entirety of the project first of all the majority of our site is actually depressed so the street level is right around 1575 I believe and it kind of steps up back to about elevation 20 towards the rear elevation and steps along both sides left and right the footing and the foundation elevation the cuts of the site are lower than you know to get the footings and the utilities and all that stuff are lower than the adjacencies that is somewhat honestly nice or convenient but it allows us to keep low points within the site that we can control sediment we can control water runoff we can have localized pump locations we'll make sure we have siltation controls or wattles and so on to keep sediment running off the site as the grade comes up and we get to the finished elevation which is right around 16 we get to that finished elevation we have a wheel wash which is really like crushed stone that would be for any vehicles exiting and entering the site to prevent mud from going into the public way we would make sure that it takes that mud is in the public way it gets swept daily and so on so we would certainly be all over sedimentation control and erosion control throughout the site as I mentioned just from sheer means and methods as the building goes vertical and as we come out of the hole at that point we're coming out of the hole of concrete and other materials that don't have sediment so it becomes a much easier site to maintain and really the sediment happens at a lower elevation and so it should be relatively straightforward soil stockpiling I don't think you'll see a whole lot of it here it is a cut site initially leasing at the footings and foundations the underground utilities in a perfect world we would probably sit on some of that material in a realistic world we end up juggling it around too much and it becomes cumbersome and short of maybe leasing some parking lot space or something which very seldom happens really what we'd end up doing is disposing and then importing new when the time is appropriate I think you're going to find that it's going to end up being a case anyway by the time you've done a structural fill and crushed stone and the other drainage materials we will need for the stormwater recharge and other systems on site the next comment had new access and parking typically these sites we will set up a dual gate scenario we do that for both convenience we do it for some compliance reasons but we'll end up having both at both accesses off of sunny side those will be done through temporary fence rental systems that we'll have on site parking we should generally and again keep in mind that most of our subcontractor base is used to working in urban environments we generally recommend public transportation we recommend commuting together or carpool together rather a lot of our subs that are really used to the urban environment already have 13 passenger vans so they'll come in they all meet together at a park and ride and they drive in together so as to not have to park 13 vehicles they park one van and so really the amount of parking would be reduced we would typically look to accommodate that parking either in a local municipal lot or by renting some surface parking somewhere or by finding you know legal on street parking you know within proximity of the site the next item you mentioned was around fire access it is fairly common in fact I think I do it on every job regardless even if it's required to have open dialogue with the fire department in our CMP we do that because number one we want them to be familiar with the site I know that the old joke is you know some sites will arrange a key or access and they always joke and say I have a key because of course they're talking about the jaws of life or just driving down a fence but we do want to make sure that that they understand the site not just you know in its current condition but in its various stages throughout the project one of the SOPs we put in place we actually were the first first company ever to obtain a building permit post some of the arson and fire woodframe work in Boston several years back I worked with the fire department in the city of Boston and came up with protocol on how to build woodframe unprotected construction and one of the things that we do is as we go vertical on a site we build a dry standpipe even though it's not required by any code it's our company SOP we'll have a signage that indicates where the standpipe connections are we'll make sure that you know we have access and coordination with the fire department or the fire marshal on how to do that throughout construction and that communication chain stays open our superintendent will have you know periodic conversations with them just to make sure everybody's happy and clear on what's happening the ninth point had to do with deliveries oh this is where I think I passed my pass the torch the deliveries and the service in the permanent condition I'll pass on that one I'll pass on the parking one I'll pass on the stormwater one and the lighting one I will comment quickly on though the 24 foot wide access 24 foot is actually a very favorable with considering there's not dedicated parking typically we try to maintain a 20 foot drive path and so you know to the extent that I am looking to take some of the public way a right of way to get utility tied in and to you know set the curbing and the new sidewalk and some of that other work you know if we had to approach it to the right of way you know three or four feet and it would still maintain two-way traffic even if and again we could work sometimes we'll do cones down the middle sometimes we'll temporary stripe it all depends I know the asphalt there's not in the greatest condition and I'm not sure what the town's plan is to redo that in time or whatnot but we would definitely work with the DPW to make sure that whatever plan is ultimately agreed upon is collaborative and working towards an end goal so I think I've answered Mr. Reardon's questions or comments I'm happy to answer anymore if you have any further questions thank you thank you very much Mr. Grosshandler Nick, Mr. Berns is sure yeah I can I can jump in I might just circle back Sean on the sedimentation and erosion control I think you know Matt provided some background from a construction management stand but I didn't know if there were any specific questions in terms of the design materials that were submitted by CME Otis that you were queuing into there with your comment there if you wanted to have Jeff offer anything or if you're satisfied no more it was just a sort of a re-hatch of what we discussed during our meeting but yeah okay nothing there that's needs to be sort of discussed further great I did want to reiterate thanks Matt for your perspective on fire access management during construction I think Sean had also alluded to maybe some concerns about fire department access and the finished condition and you know just forever for the record we did have a meeting with a member of the town department has including the fire chief where they reviewed our preliminary plans and we received some similar questions about the clearances around the site and some of the dimensions to the back of the site there was not any major concern nor have we received any formal comments from the fire department from our formal application for the 4DB process but we're happy to confirm again with the fire chief that they don't see any outstanding issues with the design yeah Nick if I can just jump in real quick just for background yeah what I try to sometimes do might sound a bit pedantic but keep in mind that what we're trying to do is form the record for the decision so you know even if it's just a brief summary of your conversation something to introduce to the record so that the board has something written or some documentation to rely on yep that's like even what Matt just said if we can get a draft plan or even a memo that sort of rehashes those same points then you know that gets introduced to the record and everybody has it it's a difference between having sort of foundation for their decision as opposed to not yeah absolutely and it was my understanding from our previous conversation that you'll be submitting formal comments we'll be submitting a formal response for the record and the board will have that through their reference yeah absolutely one other quick side note to that is that it's not just we'll ultimately you'll see I could try to pull together a you know Nick and I and the client and I will huddle up here and you know I could see if there's some way to accelerate a preliminary CMP or something it won't have been reviewed with all the different departments we talked about but at least give you some ideas of what we're thinking the other thing that we typically will do and again it's somewhat early but we would do it as part of SOP anyway is we put together an NFPA 241 which is a temporary construction access plan and so that that addresses the safety that it will address the fire department concerns that'll address all those other you know how we maintain site security etc throughout the project and so we typically developed that you know right and submitted along with our building permit or or some cities require it with the building permits application some don't but it's typically the timing of it but I'm happy you know we could probably put together some bullet points just to let you know what's coming great thank you man on the point regarding deliveries drop off trash pickup basically curb designations in the public right of way I think you know we had expressed interest in our application with coordinating with the town engineer about what the appropriate designations along sunny side would be I think our proposal is to you know provide signage of some sort whether that's a you know loading only zone or a 15 minute parking zone I think we're relying on the town to provide some input there about what they'd like to see directly in front of the building that will facilitate you know Ubers you know trash pickup other types of you know Amazon UPS all that kind of stuff um Mr. Purins that that comment that you just made refers primarily to when the building is an operation correct yes absolutely yeah it was there a separate question about about those issues no we were just going back and forth between Mr. Grasshandler and you and that's also between the construction management and you and it gets a little confusing absolutely understood the comment regarding the justification of the parking reduction I might ask Mary to weigh in on you know from a legal or procedural standpoint how we'd like to address that but I think we you know have spoken at previous hearings and in our application about the clients you know the owner's assessment of what their needs are for parking and how it's at the board's discretion to make an allowance to reduce the required parking oh yes before I do that Nick why don't you address the shadow study on for Michael Street oh sure why don't you know if you don't mind Mary maybe I'll just keep I'll finish going through the list of items from Sean and then we can touch on the shadow study the last quick one I think is the lighting plan and Sean we did develop and submit and present a lighting plan at our last hearing so I don't know if you were not able to gain access to that but happy to share that with you and discuss in any more detail but that was an earlier request from the board that we have fulfilled and I don't believe there were any additional outstanding comments from the board based on those materials I'll ask Jeff to address the stormwater design issues if that's okay sure so thank you Sean for that that advice we'll take a look at our stormwater accounts and see what we can do to minimize the size of the system and see if the bylaw waiver is feasible for our scenario we anticipate some stormwater infiltration system within the building if we could reduce it that's great even cost benefit to the client yeah and Jeff I'm happy to work with you to sort of reach out sort of a cooperative conclusion yep I think between you myself and the town engineer we'll find the solution for it okay any other further questions on that Mary do you want to address the reduction at this point or would you like me to I think no I think that I would say that I think we have at prior meetings vetted the issue of parking in detail because of the this is an affordable housing development article 8 gives the ability gives a 10 percent reduction in the parking and the board under article 6 6.15 can can further reduce the parking we gave you statistical data from three comparable size projects that HCA has built a capital square Broadway and Lowell street and we gave you the number of units gave you the number of parking spaces and we gave you the utilization and based upon that information parking was being utilized at about 49 percent so we believe that the board has adequate authority to further reduce the parking under article 6. We've also provided adequate bicycle parking and facilities and where this is on a transportation line and adequate transportation I think this plenty of support for reducing the parking thank you Mary you're welcome Pat I'm wondering if we want to pause here and take any other questions or comments regarding Sean's feedback or I'm happy to share the shadow study follow up which we had also requested but I think we've had a why don't you take a little break on the shadow study and why don't we see if we can't go through the material it's already quite a lot that we already that we've just done and I wonder if there are any comments or questions from the board Mr. Chair Mr. Riecker-Delley I just wanted to ask a follow up question about this the street parking and we were just talking about the you know loading or drop off zone I know this is not necessarily within the scope of the project because it's on the street but just wondering is is this street wide enough to accommodate that in any case even if even if the town we're willing to designate a spot for a drop off or or loading or anything like that I don't think it is but that that being said it is a very low volume street so with a fairly robust 24 foot plus width so if if a delivery vehicle had to pull over the curb for 10 minutes certainly not the end of the world what I just want to do is make sure that it's the expectation is defined so that everybody knows what to expect going forward so there there aren't any surprises basically so there is sorry not enough not enough room to accommodate a on street parking okay so so in that case just as a follow up question in that case it wouldn't be typical for them to sign or designate a spot for that because it wouldn't be a a real parking zone right it would just be a sort of unofficial people stop and there's enough room to go around them right I think you can call it like a no standing zone or something like that okay I'll just add that the existing condition the town allows parking on both sides of the street and the street you know allows two-way traffic and I think we heard from board members and from a butters and during our site visit and during you know these meetings that it's very very tight and very congested and so I think that's why we're looking to receive a recommendation from the town as to you know how they want to proceed you know with its redevelopment there's obviously no curb no sidewalk in front of our property or in front of the Aramont fuel property and so you know what the future condition of the block becomes and what's allowed you know on the curb line or not and whether or not traffic you know gets constrained in other ways I think is really up to the town not up to the applicant yeah I understood I think it would be good to get that feedback from from the town because I think you know having driven down the street many times and ridden my bike down here too that it's it it feels like sort of a tight street and when someone parked on the side of it it feels much tighter so yeah thank you is there anything else from the board Mr. Drup Mr. LeBlanc kind of going back to kind of our constructability items and the like I was just wondering it sounds like you know soil is going to be taken off the site so I was just curious if there was any anyone on the team that could do a soil characterization or if there was a plan for that later given probably the amount of soil that might have to be taken off the site I know I know in your materials you have done some soil soil testing already but that seems more hydrology related rather than you know any hazardous material or the makeup of that soil especially given the current use of that property yeah I'm happy to speak to that briefly and if Eric or Gaby or Matt wants to chime in please do you know there was like you alluded to there was there were geotechnical investigations that happened there were also both phase one and phase two environmental reports that were performed that included testing and those were found to be clean typically soil characterization for the project will happen either directly prior to construction or you know at the onset of construction and that will inform you know the soil removal plan and where you know that material needs to go to which types of facilities so that'll definitely be taking place I don't know if you know others on the team want to add any more detail to that Nick I can say in response to is there is no place in Massachusetts that I know of that will accept excavated soil without documentation as to its origin so the days of being able to bring it somewhere without having documentation and not Evestor your spot on it every one of our sites has characterization and you know receiving facilities that have their own analysts and their own scientists that do the analysis on that so that'll 100% be the case here as well that's all I had Mr. LeBonk that's all I had is there anything else going once going twice okay so we will now into the shadows I guess Mr. Birch you can start on this one here why don't I share my screen here here with me Mr. Hanlon I don't know if we'll need Mr. Lee to give co-host permissions in order to allow the sharing Mr. Lee's still here there we go he is here Mr. Lee can you do that you're able to access the shadow studies I'm just having some technical issues on my side I think that our problem may very well be that the person who is the host and who can give you clearance to do that oh I haven't even tried to share my screen yet I'm just trying to access oh all right well why don't we work on our problem for why you work on yours if you yeah if you can if you can get it pulled up it's not loading for me for some reason yeah I do have it on my screen but I am disabled from being able to share my screen okay Mr. Klein you are the co-host are you able to do that I was looking to see if I have that ability up here to have that ability I believe it's under security if yeah while we're waiting Nick I did find the lighting plan thank you for directing me to the okay great was there did you guys have any plan to do lighting on the deck we definitely will have some level of exterior lighting on the deck we haven't gotten to that level and I think the the board and a butters initial concerns were specifically about street level lighting and public safety so that's where we focused our efforts in our response but yes we will we'll have some sort of illumination up there as well when that when that information is available if you can share it that would be great sure yeah why don't we we can coordinate with our landscape architect on that so this is not clear to me what to do I think that probably at this point in order to keep everybody from just from wasting a lot of time what I think I'll do is is open the public hearing we'll have only the encourage commenters to deal only with the matters that have already hello Mr. Hanlon yes might I suggest that this is a Malpas on and he was going to speak to the Michael street issue and so if we could allow him to speak to that if he can do that without the pictures that's fine yes yeah thank you man thank you Mr. Chairman yeah so there obviously was you know there was concern last time about traffic on Michael street you know then then we wanted to also look at the comparison to what the previous use was because when we did our study that use wasn't obviously open so we couldn't collect any traffic data that basically what we found is you know the the auto body shop generated about 10 to 11 trips in the peak hours and the housing development is excuse me going to generate about 15 to 20 in the peak hours so we're talking a very minimal change and like we kind of emphasize in the report you know most of the traffic or a majority of the traffic will go to Broadway the there is a chance because nobody is directing the traffic that they will use Michael street however if you know for argument's sake you say 20% of all those trips use Michael street that's one trip every half hour or you know in the evening one trip every 15 minutes so you're not going to feel any difference at all so I think you know based on the numbers and the anticipated distribution I think you could basically say you know the added trips on Michael street will be negligible great thank you Mr. Zimalk I take it that even if the people who lived on Michael street didn't consider them negligible now that is to say they they see more than they would like to see coming through what your point is is that the delta the increment that would be attributable to the site would be very small is that correct that is correct very small okay all right are we ready to circle back I see that I have the ability to screen share yes yes Mr. Zimalk great job okay all right are you seeing shadow studies yes we are Nick do you want to speak to them or do you want me to do that I guess I'll proceed so when we talked last meeting we were requested by the board to provide a more detailed breakdown of what's happening during this winter solstice so we covered from noon to 4 30 which is sunset and what you see in gray is existing shadow conditions what you see in the blue is the addition of the new proposed building what we found with the breakdown is that we start to get shadowing on is that's 40 43 Michael street at around four o'clock which is half an hour before sunset at three o'clock which is on the upper right corner there the shadow that's cast is primarily coming from the existing the new is within the footprint of the existing shadow and I can't really make this out very clearly but does the shadow affect I think it's numbers 35 and 37 or 35 and 39 the ones next to it's not touching 35 it seems to kind of work in tandem with sort of on the same the edge of the shadow meets the edge of the shadow of the adjacent Arlemont fuel raising 39 but it's it's not really substantive like it's what you see there that little sliver of blue is on the outside edge of the perimeter of 39 okay all right thank you thank you so are there any questions from the board on either of the last two points that we've talked about what Mr. Zamolka had to say and what Miss Ayn had to say Mr. Mr. Riccadelli I just want to say I think it's thank you for addressing both those concerns the traffic on Michael Street as well as the the shadow say I think that's very helpful and I hope the neighbors feel that it's helpful as well we'll see coming out it was there was there's someone else who was seeking attention when I called them Mr. Riccadelli Mr. Chair Mr. Klein the other aspect on the solar study that we had requested additional information on was trying to get something that was a little more some actual figures on sort of the amount of time I know this sort of indicates it's sort of about half an hour at the solstice in the wintertime and then I believe that I'm just trying to recall from the the prior hearing it did appear that it was really it was only in these these circumstances where the the solar impact where the shadow impact was really on those two that corner house in the house adjacent to it on Michael Street and I wasn't sure if the the applicant could provide not at this time but could provide just a little more sort of a numeric analysis so we can really to be able to demonstrate sort of what the you know how many hours per year kind of impact we're anticipating that this this might have my my sense is that it's going to be a very low number but I do think it would be helpful for the for the for the neighbors and for the butters to have a better sense of that impact you thank you Mr. Klein all right is there any other discussion from the board seeing none it's now time to open the public the meeting to public comment many of you have already been through this more than once but just in case you've forgotten public comments questions and comments will only be taken as they relate to the matter at hand and they should be directed to the board for the purpose of informing our decision members of the public will be granted time to ask questions and make comments members of the public who wish to speak should digitally raise their hand using the button on the participant tab and zoom application those calling in by phone please dial star nine to indicate you'd like to speak you will be called upon by the meeting host you will be asked to give your name and address and you will be given time for questions and comments all questions are to be addressed through the chair please remember to speak to speak clearly anyone wishing to address the board a second time during any particular hearing the chair will allow those wishing to speak for the first time to speak first once all public questions and comments have been addressed or the allocated time as it ended the public comment period will be closed and the board and staff will do our best to show documents being discussed I think that where we are right now is it's it's 837 and so why don't we start at the we'll aim for trying to do this by around 920 okay the first person I see with a hand up so far the only person is Monique Chaplin thank you Mr. Monique Chaplin 35 Michael Street first I just want to express my appreciation for the additional shade study I appreciate that extra thought was given to that and all the interested in hearing the results of Mr. Klein's suggestion as we anticipate construction vehicles in the area I would like to request whether it would be possible to ask that construction vehicles not park on Michael Street and that they park perhaps on Broadway with the permits so that Michael Street's also kind of a narrow street and if people are parking and there's driveways that are directly across from parking areas which makes it difficult for people to get out of their driveways so I'm concerned if too many either construction workers or construction vehicles are parking on Michael Street it'll be difficult for people to get in and out thank you Ms. Chaplin thank you does anyone have a I guess Mr. Gross Grosshandler are you still here I don't know Mr. F. Sturer I does that make sense to you at least from from the point of view of I mean that the construction management is going to be actually at issue when we're dealing with during construction where either equipment or cars or whatever is going to park what would your view be if we had a condition for example that that forbid parking on Michael Street for for those uses as part of the construction process so at a high level ideally I'd like to really review the actual CMP and the traffic and delivery routes and so on and I just haven't haven't really pulled that study together yet but certainly will the thing I would suggest at a minimum is that the other thing I didn't mention earlier what we do throughout the project is we have neighborhood coordination meetings will typically offer them either monthly or every other month depending on you know what people want and what people's tolerance for the disruption is in those meetings we would announce things like you know concrete four days or you know crane days and so on which tend to be the more impactful durations you know when you're pouring concrete if I have you know 40 concrete trucks queuing up for that that for you only have you know so many minutes to start pouring concrete before the concrete gets hard you know so typically in those instances we'll communicate that a week or two or more in advance to say okay you know everybody bleep the advice on Thursday though whatever we'll be you know anticipating a higher than normal demand and I found that you know to the extent that we're respectful of of the community the community tends to be respectful of the process and we'll work with whatever is practical of all at the time to work hand in hand if that helps answer that question thank you sir Mr. Chaplin are you okay he said should I move on to Mr. Acosta thank you that that's helpful okay thank you Mr. Acosta I would like to thank the board for putting the effort into this shadow study or the applicant as well that actually is helpful I think I'm a little concerned that there's still a little shadow on on my property I'm also concerned about the construction during and during the traffic during construction and while building is active the almond fuel trucks are are somewhat big so that it's not like a regular you know car traffic if you're starting to have like trying to shift towards two trucks side by side with even with one car in the parking and I think it's just going to be a mess also again now revoiced my concern about not the building not having the setbacks required or enough parking I do appreciate that it's on a transit line and biking but it is again New England in the winter and the transportation is not as good as it's made seem especially late at night the routes don't run as often so pick a car or growth for car usage I think would be advisable to start with a project per year 100% utilizing your parking it just doesn't mowed well Mr. Castle by 100% you mean having parking spaces for all 40 for all 43 houses or you mean something else no no I mean I mean if you if you allocate 50 whatever the the 10% discount minus the utilization that was modeled I think that comes out at the exact number that the plan is built so basically you have server room for growth or expansion I mean I notice here on the street it varies we started with a few cars then as the kids grow older people got more cars and then the kids move away you get less cars so just being at 100% utilization with such parking space it even for visitors it makes sense to have a few parking spaces open and I mean I still again the setbacks are a concern but I understand the cost project is I understand what the applicant is trying to do by maximizing the space to keep the the cost reasonable which which I mean it's understandable but I'm still concerned that the building is is too big for the character of the neighborhood I do think for four floors would be better that I understand there's a cost aspect to it thanks for the time hey thank you Mr. Acosta is there anybody yeah I actually don't see any other hands going once oh Mr. Moore thank you Mr. Chair Steve Moore Pete Montstreet I couldn't let a meeting go about it out saying something of course I want to applaud and settle blanks comments about the soil and the concern about the soil to do with the fact that the site I know that I'm repeating myself because raised this issue before but I want to ask a question when the someone had a name for the report when the soil is analyzed and differentiated or whatever is there a point made to any town body of the results of that report yeah I wonder Mr. Connor who would be best suited to answer that question I think to be site civil is it possible just to hear that question one more time did you oh sure sure the question is when the soil is you said that determination is made right when you actually do the excavation although I know there's been many test pits dug and such when that determination gets made and when some mitigation plan if there's something wrong with the soil is developed there's a report that made to any town board or body about that like the inspector's office or some such I would just point out that there was a full 21e done with borings at that site and the site is clean right and I understand Mr. Chairman I'm just asking when that determination is actually named upon excavation of the actual pit as opposed to boins well I'd have to defer it to the contractor and semiotis on that Mr. Grosshandler could you explain how that process works and whether particularly the issue here is whether there's any point during that process where a report is made to an agency of the town so that the town knows what's going on as well as as the others who need to be involved yeah I'm really thinking about this because I'm not sure too many towns want to know right because you know when you're and I'm just thinking out loud here when you're relying on a licensed LSD licensed professional to do the analysis and and dictate where it goes there's there's sort of there's no liability to the town in that regard once the town injects itself as an authority I don't know I feel like most cities and towns I want to know what's happening but they don't they don't ask to get copied it they almost it just they want to know that there's that the compliance is happening that there's a licensed engineer that's putting the name on it they don't typically get into the weeds more than that and I I might be able to help here so Sean the process they're talking about is is called the mcp process mcp process in Massachusetts the mass contingency plan the first step is called what's a phase one analysis and that's usually a cursory evaluation based on the history of the site to determine whether there's any risk that there's any contamination it any site that's operated like as an industrial facility or as a car repair place it's going to trip the next requirement which is a phase two which says okay you can't eliminate it based on its history so you need to go out there and do a bit of testing and and confirm that there's either something out there or there's nothing out there usually if a phase two find something you end up having to notify dep that there is contamination on site and it gets assigned to release tracking number and then you move to a phase three the fact that no phase three work was done it's likely that the phase two came up positive as Mary said usually that information is only shared with financiers and and people that are purchasing the property so there would be no reason to share that with the town Mr. Chair Mr. Mr. Mark but there was some reference to a process where you actually start when you started digging for a foundation point some determination is made at that point that's separate from the studies which have already been found for disposal of the material I think you yourself said there's nowhere in Massachusetts that we can dispose of the material so someone has to analyze the material for what's found correct yeah that's wholly dependent on the receiving facility so whoever's accepting the facility they they say what they need whoever's accepting the material they say what they need from doc for documentation from the generating source and it's just an agreement between those two parties okay so Mr. Chair so it sounds like the answer is the town is not informed the only reason I'm bringing this up and being a stickler about it is we have the ALWR book close by and as you know there's been there's a number of I don't know sample pits or whatever near near the book and I also understand that the site is I think outside the aura however ALWR book does flood regularly there's been much sewage contamination issues around this this book and I'm just I'm concerned that whatever this site will find when it does its digging and it might behoove the town to be aware of what is discovered this is my two cents Mr. Chair thank you Mr. Chair excuse me Mr. more it would be probably it might be helpful if you have the time and inclination to do this is to think through a little more what you are suggesting I guess the thing that I would like to understand better is what the town would do with the information that it has somehow there needs to be some kind of a of a connection between something that the is the town's responsibility or within the town's legal authority and what that information is but and at this point I don't fully understand what that is so if if you could I don't this is not the time for us to sort of work through that right if if you could could maybe make that a little more precise and give us a little more to work with that would be helpful sure thank you Mr. okay thank you Mr. More is there anyone else who wishes to address this could I we have Rachel in the waiting room let me see if I can admit her I I think I can I think I did I'm sorry she's joining but is not yet joined is there anyone else who wishes to address the application going once going twice I'm sure Rachel is not going to volunteer so I guess that's time for the chair to close the public hearing are there any other questions or comments for members of the board okay well seeing none the next step here is going to be to continue the hearing as I indicated at the outset and I think I just want to make sure that we can confirm that August 1st will work for the board and the others who need to be there at that hearing I believe everybody from the board has either indicated to me that they would be available that day or failed to indicate to me that they haven't but this is the time to if we've got a problem this is the time to identify it Mr. Haverty this is that will the first work for you yes it does Mr. Chairman Mr. O'Connor for the applicant it does Mr. Reardon is that that give you enough time to do what you need to do it does okay so let's I think the next time it with the the agenda would be to go through the the issues that have been raised today by the report and whatever additional issues are are going to be raised when we finally have a written report and when there's a back and forth about that this will also be a good time for everybody to be thinking about what the final stuff is what the what the loose ends are what the questions are that we need to have answered because we're getting close to a time when we are not going to be able to ask those questions anymore or hear any answers to them so we're getting at that point where it all needs to come together when we finally finish with the factual findings or not the findings but the the factual inquiry that is like the inquiry that we've been doing the very last meeting that we will have will be reviewing Mr. Havarty's draft opinion with draft conditions and so forth and taking a look at them making sure they say what they're supposed to say making sure that if they're if they present difficulties that the board is aware of it because this will be our last time to work that out we have potentially one more day that we've been talking about that might be available in August that would be the 15th later in the month it would be very difficult at least if we stuck to Tuesdays to find today when the board can all get together and I guess the question I have since that puts the burden on Mr. Havarty and since much of what of the coming to closure on Mr. Reardon's report is likely to take as late as the first whether it makes sense to try to do that in only two weeks given that everybody has to read the report as opposed to just receive it on the first so on the 15th so I'm just trying to figure out what what makes the most sense given your schedule and given the way in which we're planning to unfold the alternative is to pick a date early in September that will do the final review on the on the language and I would anticipate that we would close the hearing on that day Mr. Chairman who is that question too? I'm sorry you can't tell but I'm staring right at you Mr. Havarty because it's basically once we finish figuring out what we have what we're going to know about the facts you're the one who's the quarterback at that point and laying out what the game plan is and giving us something to work with and the public and the applicants something to work with so two weeks should be enough time for me to get a draft decision to you and that would be in time for us to read it and to make sure that we can react to it so I don't want to just get it on the 15th and then discover that thought about it I mean I would try to get it to you a week in advance but I can't guarantee that okay that would be appreciated because you know given the nature of my clients being a not-for-profit time is money for them and money is very tight for this project okay well Mr. Havarty if you think you can do that then I think that what we should try to do is to finish up on the first if it turns out that's not possible then the time will slip but otherwise one thing I can do is to actually get started on it now so I've got the outline of it ready to go and so that'll shave some time off so yeah I'll do that that will be helpful thank you so if we're lucky we were able to we'll be able to close the hearing on the 15th that gives us 40 days from the 15th and like the infamous Grasshopper we will play and sing for the next two weeks after that and then work really hard in September to get this job done is that okay with everyone yes thank you very much all right thanks everyone for your cooperation I thank you also for the public for for speaking this has been another hearing in which I think that we haven't had as big a crowd as we've had in the past sometimes but I very much enjoyed hearing from Mr. Acosta and Ms. Chaplin and and very much welcome as I think we all do the contribution that you all have made to the analysis here I think we'll find that that the project will be a lot better because of what you've been able to do all right so at this point the chair will entertain a motion to continue this session of the hearing to a date certain of August 1 2023 at 730 you're assumed thereafter as the matter can be heard Mr. Chairman Mr. Klein so moved moved by Mr. Klein is there a second seconded by Mr. DuPont to a roll call Mr. Klein aye Mr. DuPont Mr. Hoffman not Mr. Hoffman I'm sorry Ms. Hoffman aye and I should say Ms. Holy to make it work out but I'm not I'm going to say Mr. Holy aye Mr. LeBlanc aye Mr. Riccardelli aye and the chair votes aye okay so we have discussed a little bit what we're going where we're trying to going we're trying to go in this case in terms of the timing we do have another regular hearing on the 27th I believe where we have a continued case for that day and one new case so it it's not it should not be a long hearing and I would ask Mr. Klein if there are any other announcements on the schedule reaching into the next couple of months that he would like us to pay our attention to nothing at this point I'm just still getting my my feedback out of me from being away out on on vacation so I know we the the next hearing that the board has has scheduled I believe is the 25th of July we do have two things on the agenda for that one is a continuation from the prior hearing and one is new but that's all I'm aware of currently for that date okay well that summertime in these living is easy so let me let you all let you get on to your your attractive evening plans and I look forward very much to seeing you all on August 1st if not before so the chair would entertain a motion to adjourn Mr. Chairman so moved Mr. Klein moves to adjourn is there a second second Mr. Chairman seconded by Mr. DuPont again we have to do the roll call because that's part of what we do when we are meeting remotely Mr. Klein aye Mr. DuPont aye Ms. Hoffman aye Mr. Holy aye Mr. LeBlanc aye Mr. Riccardelli aye and the chair votes aye so we are adjourned good night everyone thank you very much good night