 What is your entrepreneurial type? And what does that mean? Do you have the type of personality that is well suited to be an entrepreneur to run your own business? Are you running your own business and you're struggling and you're not sure why? Do you have a job and you are really thinking about starting a business, but you don't know how to do it and you don't know whether you have the personality type to be an entrepreneur. We're gonna be talking about these issues on today's episode and we're gonna help you figure out what is your entrepreneurial personality type? Otherwise referred to as your E.P.T., of course. And to help me figure out your entrepreneurial personality type, I've brought in a new friend of mine, a fellow by the name of Alex Schaffen, who is a wonderful husband to a wonderful woman I've met called Katie and the father of the two lovely girls called Kennedy and Reagan. And I'm gonna ask him about the naming of his daughters in just a second. But he's a wonderful family man and he's become a great new friend of mine. He loves wearing my Swanee's blue light blocking glasses and there's been a big supporter of them and understands everything about the dangers of blue light, so we'll talk a little bit about that. And yeah, just very positive energy. And he's also the author I should say of a book called The Entrepreneurial Personality Type and he's the host of a podcast called The Momentum Podcast which I will encourage you to listen to. Alex Schaffen, welcome to the show, sir. James, thanks for having me, man. I've been looking forward to this. Yeah, it's great to have you. I wanna just ask you, how did you come up with Reagan and Kennedy for your daughter's names? And by the way, they are lovely children, lovely daughters, by the way. I can just tell that they're gonna be like great business people in the future. Yeah, I know they already are, they're intense. You know, I wasn't born in this country. I emigrated here and I think that, you know, as a kid, I looked up to Reagan and Kennedy to the presidents. You know, I read their speeches and I idealized them as a child. You know, as an adult, I can certainly see how both of them had their strengths and their massive deficits. But my wife and I really like the name, Reagan, to start with, for our first daughter. And you know, I kind of thought it was okay for them to have a name that they could live up to and set some expectations. And I think that, you know, it's interesting, whenever they hear Reagan or Kennedy commentate on, they know it's the president, but then they also feel like it's kind of them as well. Yeah. I like that. I like it, you know, you've met my kids. They're extraordinarily confident for an eight and a 10-year-old. Yes. They have no problems carrying on a conversation with adults. In fact, a lot of times adults have more of a problem carrying on a conversation with that person. And you know, I think the future is a revolution and I intend to raise revolutionaries and I hope they overshadow the genesis of their names. Yeah, yeah, they're already well on their way, Alex. That's for sure. Now you're based out in Austin, Texas and you've chosen to live there compared to other cities. Just to give us a little bit of background on you and where you've lived before and why you've ultimately set your family up in Austin. Sure. So I grew up in Mexico City as a kid, which man, they're having some struggles down there the past couple of weeks. And so I lived in Mexico City. So I was very used to large cities and the pollution of a large city. And so when I was a kid, we moved from Mexico to Southern California. So it was like from large city that was crazy polluted to another large city that was crazy polluted in LA and San Diego area. And so I grew up in San Diego, then Orange County. And when I was 21, I moved across the country to Florida as part of a business deal. And I lived there until 2009. And in 2009, my wife, Katie and I had the opportunity to pretty much live anywhere we wanted. We could move anywhere in the United States or quite frankly, the world that we wanted to. And we decided we wanted to continue to live in the US and we started looking at cities around the country and I went to 12 investigating where we wanted to live. And every time we came to Austin and left, it felt like we wanted to go back. So in 2009, we moved here. We did not buy a house right away. We actually started buying rental properties before we bought a house. In 2011, we bought the property we live in now. And we put down the roots here. We really love it here. Austin is big enough that you have all the benefits of a big city, but it's small enough that it's not overwhelming. And there is a thriving entrepreneurial community here. Yeah, there really is. Yeah, when I was out there recently, I was amazed at just how many entrepreneurial people were out there. And entrepreneurs doing really cool things in health, which is one of my passions. That really struck me. And a very, very positive vibe I felt walking through the city there. Yeah, no doubt. You know, it's funny when we first moved here, James. I had lived in Southern California and then in Orlando and in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And a bunch of different houses, but those were the general geographies. And the first night that we were living here in Austin, or the first night we had moved here in Austin, I had Reagan with me and she was tiny, like two years old. And maybe three. And the two of us were walking from our hotel to a restaurant across the street. And so we walked out of the hotel and we were kind of like in this alleyway. And in the same alleyway, there was like four kids who were 19 or 20 coming towards us. And in the places I had lived, that was an on guard situation. It was like, okay, just keep your eyes open. You know, you never know what's gonna happen. And when I was walking towards them, I locked eyes with one of the guys and I was like, oh crap, like what's gonna happen? And he goes, good evening, sir. And I was like, and I was going on. That was my introduction to Austin. It's like where the teenagers say good evening, sir. And like people are just accepting and really nice here. That's great, I like that. Just before we get into some entrepreneurial talk and we're gonna help the listener figure out whether an entrepreneurial journey is for them or not. And the personality types. You also, in Australia, this is how we might refer to someone, of how you used to be when you were drinking and maybe a little bit unhealthy. Yeah. You were once upon a time a fat bastard. Yeah, there's no question. No question. You wanna tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, in my 20s, you know, health has always been a focus for me my whole life. I grew up in a breastfeeding community called La Leche League. You know, my mom used to make organic foods. You know, I've always understood that what you put in your mouth means something. And in my 20s, I was running a very large consultancy. It grew to about a quarter billion dollars. And I didn't understand how to scale a business with the perspective that I have now. And that business scaled, but as it grew, every day got harder for me. So I went from working as much as I possibly could to working 20 hours a day, seven days a week, never taking time off. And I got to that place where the stress and the adrenaline and the cortisol and the thyroid all overwhelm each other. And no matter what I did, everything went backwards. And I, you know, it's hard for me to admit this, but I think it's important for everyone to understand. You know, I was one of those people who at first I was trying to fight it. And so I modified my diet, I would work out more, I would move more, but nothing was working. It just kept getting worse. Then I started feeling defeated. And then I just gave in and I became like the double cheeseburger guy because it felt like, well, screw it. If nothing's working, then I just kind of gave up. And by the time I was 30, I was almost 300 pounds. I was hypertensive, I had high blood pressure, I was having asthma problems, breathing problems, and like frequent like lung infections. And then I also was taking pills to go to sleep and pills to wake up. I was on six different medications. Not me. And I went in and here's what happened. I went, I had met my wife and we went together to a doctor's appointment I had. And I was trying to get my pilot's license updated and I failed. I failed the physical to be a pilot at 30 years old or 31 years old. And I was told I couldn't fly anymore. And it was, and I remember saying to the doctor, like, are you serious? I can't fly. And they said, no, you can't, you can't be behind the yoke of a plane. Like you could crash. And at the time I was flying rotary. So I was flying helicopters. And the doctor said something like there, you are the last person that should be flying a helicopter over South Florida. And I said, are you serious? And he said, yes, I have an aging patient population and you are my most likely candidate for a heart attack. Wow. And the combination of those two things, like the doctor saying I was most likely candidate for a heart attack and failing my pilot's license. I just said, screw it, I'm gonna change everything. And I sold that business within about a year, went on a quest to figure out like how to get healthy and how not to die. And that's how I ended up where I am today. I think one of the reasons I share that story as transparently as I can is that a lot of people see me today. I speak at PaleoFX, I'm a well-known biohacker. I help a lot of people get healthy. And I think they look at someone like me and they say, oh, well, genetically this guy's got it figured out or he's always looked like that or he's always been like that. And the fact is, genetically I'm anything but like this. I've had to hack every way and figure out ways to make myself get healthier and to maintain that. And I'm terrible with willpower and I'm horrible at white knuckling. So I had to figure out ways to trigger my own instincts to get healthier and thankfully it's worked. We're talking to Alex Schaffin who is the author of the book The Entrepreneurial Personality Type and he is the host of the Momentum podcast. If you'd like to find out a little bit more about Alex you can go to schaffin.com that's C-H-A-R-F-E-N.com and you can follow him on his social media at Alex Schaffin. So Alex, let's get into some entrepreneurial type stuff here. What is the E-P-T? What is this entrepreneurial personality type that you refer to in your book? So James, I think the easiest, not nothing, the easiest way to explain this is to explain kind of what personality types I see in the world. I think we've all heard of Myers-Briggs or the Colby or the Berkman or the disc profile or any of those things. Like I'm an expert in all of those systems. I've studied them extensively. I've been to the certification programs, all of those. However, I've also since I was a very young child I've obsessively studied successful people. And the easiest way to explain the entrepreneurial personality type is to explain the ecosystem we live in of humanity. You know, I go back to some of the research I've done that goes back to the beginning of time, like the beginning of humanity. How did our human tribe survive? When you look at human beings as a species, let's be really honest, we suck. We are like one of the most vulnerable species in the entire annual animal kingdom. If you put a baby human in a crib with a baby anything else, most of the time the baby human's gonna lose. And that's including insects. Like we are vulnerable to almost every other species. So how did we survive? What was the complex set of rules and situations and foundational practices that made human beings survive? Well, I think if you take a step back and you look at humanity as a whole, you can see it. See, I see four distinct types of people in the world. And the last one, I'll take you through the qualification process so you can see if you are an entrepreneurial personality type and we'll do it with you, James. So the first type of person that I see in the world and it's a big population is I call them the caretakers. You know, the people in the world who wanna take care of other people, they wanna help other people, they wanna help other people do good things, they wanna help other people survive. And here's what's interesting, James. Whenever I talk to entrepreneurs about half of the room goes, oh, that must be me. Cause I wanna take care of people, I wanna help people. I have a simple question that will either qualify you or disqualify you as a caretaker. James, do you like to change bedpans? Do I like to change bed sheets? No, bedpans, bedpans. The pan that goes underneath someone when they're in a bed and they have to go to the bathroom. No. No, right? No. Like you say that with a level of emphasis that indicates it's a strange question. Yeah, no, I don't wanna do that, no. Okay, here's what's interesting, James. More than once in my life, I've been in a room where somebody has had to change a bedpan or perform a similarly offensive act, like something that I would not wanna do. And I've asked that person, hey, do you like to change bedpans? And James, with a level of congruency that is shocking and surprising, I've had someone turn to me and say, Alex, if that person needed the bedpan changed and that was what they needed at that point in time and I was here to be able to be of service, I feel fulfilled. And I'm sitting there thinking, I feel like I should have written a bigger check if that ever happens to me. But we need those caretakers in the world. Then do you know who I'm talking about? You know this personality. Like they really want to just in the moment take care of people. So we know you're not a caretaker. So that's group number one. Good, or bad, I don't know. I don't know whether I should, I'm feeling guilty now that I was like, no, I don't wanna do that. I'm like, damn it, I'm not the caring type that I thought I was. Well, but we all have our place, let me show you. The second type of person, I call them the communicators. And here's what's funny, when I'm talking to entrepreneurs, first they go, oh, I must be a caretaker. Then they go, oh, I gotta be a communicator. And a lot of people look at people like you and I and they say, well, they have podcasts, they speak, they put products out there, they go on TV, they've got all this exposure, they're on Instagram constantly, they must be a communicator. But here's the difference. Communicators like the act of communicating. And so I can disqualify you from this group with one simple question. James, do you like small talk? No. No, right? When somebody says, hey, James, how's the weather? Don't you think to yourself? Like, what do you think to yourself? I'm like, that is the most boring question that you could have asked. That's a trivial question that is gonna result in me talking like a moron for the next 10 seconds and not being engaged, not being engaged in the conversation. And there's like the elephant in the room is like, we're just killing time here because we don't know what else to say. Exactly. When somebody says, hey, Alec, that happens a lot here in Austin because it's hot every day. But let me point out something. It's hot every day. You walk in somewhere and you'll have somebody go, hey, wasn't it hot out there? And I always wanna say like, hey, the weather ceased to be a relevant conversation as soon as we could control indoor environments. Yes, it was hot out there, but why are you wasting my time? And but, but here's the fact, James. Communicators like, did our evolutionary tribe need the caretaker? Hell yes, cause guys like you and I weren't gonna take care of somebody. Somebody like falls down and hurts themselves. We're gonna keep going. And somebody needed to stay behind and take care of that guy. Did we need the communicator? The person who's willing to talk about anything? Yes, we needed like oral tradition. The person who said, don't eat this, you might die. Don't go over there. There's a big cliff. Hey, there's a woolly mammoth back in that direction. And the fact is communicators will talk about anything. I've watched two communicators at a water cooler, have a 45 minute discussion, about a half hour TV show. You tell me how that works. But they will. They're willing to talk about anything. They like the act of communicating. So we disqualified you there. Now the third set of people, I call them the coordinators. But my code name for them is the organizers and the memorizers. Entrepreneurs do not typically say, hey, I'm one of these. Because the coordinators are the people who they love the rules. They love fine print. They want the regulations. They, they, you know, they want to, they like contracts, not because there's a deal because they get to work on a contract. And yeah, you've already disqualified yourself. But here's the question. She's, I'm disqualifying myself a lot here, Alex. I'm in trouble early. Well, here's what happens, James. I mean, it's very clear when you look at these types of people, the four types of people in the world, it becomes instantly clear whether you're an entrepreneurial personality type or not. Because if you're not a coordinator, here's the disqualification question. James, how many committees have you volunteered for in your life? Can you just clarify what committee means exactly? You know, how many, how many groups have you volunteered for where you're part of a group decision-making process? Like a homeowners association or a condo association or like the, not, not, not zero. Zero. You talk to a coordinator who's like a really in themselves coordinator and they'll tell you, like my father-in-law, who's the king of all coordinators. He and I do not get along. Stepfather-in-law, he sits on 26 different committees. All right, man. How could you possibly waste more time in your life? And so, so that's a beautiful way of putting it. What, I would say, what is wrong with you, man? Right, like what are you doing? How can you be on 26 committees? Like just going through the process of opening a committee discussion freaks me out. When they're like, we're going to call the order. I'm like, I'm out. I don't have time for this. And so, so we disqualified you from the first three. Now, if we look at our evolutionary tribe, we know we needed the caretakers. We know we needed the communicators. We clearly needed the coordinators. They remember the seasons. They tell us when to plant. They tell us to gather stuff for the winner. All the things that like details we would forget. So James, if you have people who take care of people, people who communicate and people who coordinate, what are you missing in our evolutionary tribe? People that just get shit done or create and vent, like just get things started, I would say. See if this makes sense, James. You and I are part of the very small minority of evolutionary hunters. We've always been on the hunt. And you know that we're hardwired as evolutionary hunters because we get up every morning and we create a new future reality and then we do everything we can in the present to make it real. And we're that small minority that's willing to expose ourselves to the vulnerability, to the criticism of being the person who says we are going to change things because the rest of the world strives for average and clings to the status quo. And the fourth group of people are those who get up every day and say, we can change this. We will change this. We can make this a better place. And the fact is, if we need any more evidence that we are hardwired differently than the rest of the world, when you look at a communicator, sorry, let's start at the beginning. When you look at a caretaker, a communicator or a coordinator, they literally live in the present. All of those activities happen right now in the present. And the fact is people like you and I are hardwired to live in the future. So we have this complete different perspective of the world. And so for anyone listening who identifies with the fourth group, the evolutionary hunter, the people who get up every day wanting to make things happen, wanting to make this a better place, improving things, changing things, making shit happen, the fact is, I'll confirm your suspicions. Yes, there are people in the world who don't like you just because of who you are. And there are people in the world who are frustrated with your level of success or your attempted achievement. And Jesus, James, where you're from, New Zealand, Australia, man, you try and stand up at all. They call it tall poppies. They literally try and cut you off at the knees. And the reason is the rest of the world wants everyone to fall in the rows of wheat and sway with the breezes. And the fact is, hunters don't do that. We flush the breeze. We go through the wheat. We make our own path. We go out and do what we need to do to hunt something down and kill. And here's what's interesting. If you need any more evidence of evolutionary hardwiring, every one of us, as we achieve an objective, as we cross the finish line to our goal, it loses importance to us just as fast as we approach it. Would you agree? Yeah, it's crazy. Well, I mean, whether you believe in divine intervention or creation or evolution or whatever it is, when I look at that dynamic, here's what I clearly see. Evolutionary hunters are hardwired to be on the hunt. And the second we make a kill, the only thing we care about is the next one. The faster you get in touch with those feelings as a person like us, the faster you start propelling yourself towards success. Because here's what I know about people like you and I, James. Every one of us has felt different, isolated, made fun of, put down, pushed aside, told to sit down, shut up, quick wiggling, stop, moving, sit still, all those things. Have you heard it, James? Yeah, for sure. And so here's the fact. For any one of us who's ever felt like a party of one, like we were different, like we didn't have a tribe, I want you to understand something. Right now, take a deep breath. And think back to the timeline of history that matters to you, to anyone in history who matters to be remembered, to those people whose names called out to you, I know who they were for me. Einstein and Pythagoras and Newton and Socrates and Plato and the people who did weird things in the world and showed up in a way other than the rest of the world, but were able to change things and were indelibly remembered. When you look at that group of people, the people throughout history who have evolved humanity for every one of you listening who's ever felt alone and isolated and like a party of one, I want you to know something. That is your tribe. That is who you are. And that is why you're part of the most important type of person in history and on this planet because entrepreneurs are the only source of positive human evolution and we always will be. So if you're showing up to this podcast and wondering, can I, should I, will I be able to? Here's my answer. Hell yes. And don't let anyone tell you different. We're talking to Alex Scharfen, the author of the book, The Entrepreneurial Personality Type and the host of the Momentum podcast. So the listener right now, Alex, who you just spoke to and that's resonating with him or her is going, yes, all right, great, we figured this out. There are also people listening to this who are like, well, I'm not a hunter. I'm actually a coordinator or a communicator or caretaker. So can we encourage and support and get them as psyched to roll as well if they're actually saying to themselves right now, you know what, I'm a caretaker and I'm a communicator and I'm a coordinator. Is there, are we looking at them with the same enthusiasm and fervor as the hunter? I'm sure someone does, but I don't. And I don't mean that to be judgmental. I don't mean that to be off-putting, but I've dedicated my life to helping people like me and to obsessively researching people like me. And here's my argument, James. If you're listening to this podcast, you're more of a hunter than you think. And if you're listening to us right now and any of what I said resonated with you, you may be an evolutionary hunter, an entrepreneurial personality type that has some tendencies towards caretaker, coordinator or communicator, which all of us do. However, the fact that you would hit the James Swanwick podcast, the fact that you're listening to this, the fact that you're putting time into developing yourself, the fact that you are literally future pacing by just being on this podcast and asking yourself, what if I would encourage you to lean in to the feelings that you're having about who you are and lean into the fact that it doesn't matter how you show up in this world. It doesn't matter what ability or disability you may have or what perceived deficits you may have, the fact is someone like us in history has shown up with much worse and has gone on to change the world and leave an indelible mark on this place. And I would encourage you to do the same. Let's just say that we have a mother of two who's listening to this as she waits to pick up her kids from school. And maybe she has a job or maybe she's a full-time mom. And she's been feeling like she's a hunter. Maybe up until this podcast episode, she didn't realize the word was hunter, but maybe she was having those feelings and wanting to make things happen. But maybe she's been playing this role of caretaker, communicator or coordinator, but she has this sense that she's a hunter. What does she do? What is the first thing that she can do other than be aware that maybe she is a hunter? What's the first thing she can do to lean into that and then a practical first step? You know, I think there's three things that we as evolutionary hunters and entrepreneurial personality types need to do. One is understand ourselves better. Two is stop limiting behaviors that are instinctively encouraged by how we're hardwired. And three is to create momentum. And here's what I mean by that. I think that people like us are different than the rest of the world and the faster we understand it, the better. Because when you look at most people out there, they live in this world of feelings and nebulous emotions and things that like, let's be honest, we have a hard time with. Like James, when I say, James, tell me how you're feeling today. Don't you automatically have a reaction to that question? Yeah. What's the reaction? I don't really want to talk about it. I'm just like whatever, you know? I grew up in an Australian masculinity kind of culture of where we don't, talking about our feelings doesn't come naturally. And I'm more just like, get on with it, get it done. I kind of look at my grandfather who was a World War II hero and he was always just very positive and a wonderful man and a gentleman. I was a war hero, I was decorated and but he never complained and he never really talked about feelings and I always looked at him as like a great role model. Now, people will tell me, people have told me over many years here in the US that I need to be more in touch with my feelings, that I actually need to be to talk about and be more open with some insecurities and be more in touch with my feelings. And so I am working on that. But when you ask me the question, you know, say, how are you feeling? My initial reaction is I don't really want to, I'm like, nah, it's not a conversation that's comfortable. Right, right. And here's why I believe it's not comfortable, James. We don't understand how to have that conversation. Like I think that people like us have figured out maybe the difference between happy and sad. Like happy's on, sad's off, and it's kind of binary. But the fact is, do we really know the difference? Because if I was to say, okay, I understand the difference between happy and sad but tell me the difference between sad, frustrated, pissed off, ticked off, confused and I'm just plain not going to talk to you. Is there a difference? Because to me, when somebody says any of those words, I look at it the same way. And the fact is, people like us, we exist in three states. So to that mom who's just dropping off their kids, I want you to hear this so that you understand why you become reactive in the world, why you feel the way you do, and why so much of the world doesn't understand you. Because here's what we live for, momentum. People like us don't just hear that word, we feel that word. There's an evolutionary drive that says, hey, James, you should be creating forward progress, you should be moving forward, you should be doing. James, when you're in momentum, when things are going your way, when the world is following you in your wake, when you're knocking down the stuff, like how does that feel to you? It feels amazing. And when I'm not in momentum, it feels really crappy. And I go into a deep kind of funk where I'm like, ah, and my shoulders go forward and I lose energy. Right. So here's what it, so when we're in momentum, James, isn't that when you feel alive? That's when I feel alive. And I know when it happens, when I'm just like moving and I'm constantly in motion and things are coming together and things are just like happening. I love that, I live for that. And I'm like always amazed or in awe about how things can happen so quickly and so effortlessly when I am in momentum. And that's when we not only feel alive, but that's when we're at our best. And here's what I know about being in momentum. And this is for again, for the mom in the minivan who just dropped off for kids because I know that personality. I know that person. I've coached her so many times because there's brilliance there. And the fact is when you're in momentum, that's when things happen. And here's a question, James. When you're in momentum, do you feel physiologically boosted? Like you have more stamina, you can do more? Absolutely, yeah, I'm getting more energy. Cognitively boosted, can you think better? Do you make better decisions? I do. Here's a big one. Chemically boosted. Do you actually feel the chemical high of momentum? I would surmise yes, because I've probably got dopamine and serotonin maybe. There you go. So what do we just understand? For people like us, when we are achieving, accomplishing, moving forward and going towards an outcome, I would present to you maybe going towards our kill, that's when we feel fully engaged, alive and present. And no matter how hard things are around us, if we are moving forward, the world may perceive difficulty, but we feel like we're fully alive. Now the second state we exist in, and this is one we have to be careful with, but it's interesting because it's one we're facing resistance. So you're in momentum or you're facing resistance, there's one left. But facing resistance is the state where the world has conspired against you. You don't have enough resources, you don't have enough time. Maybe you've conspired against yourself and you can't really see a way out, but there's a tiny light at the end of the tunnel. And the rest of the world around you is saying, hey James, it's a train, run. And instead, you go towards that light. You compel it to move towards you. You force yourself towards it. You step through that light. And that's in fact when we create who we are. So when we're facing resistance, we turn around and create momentum. James, do you know that period in your life? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Interesting. There's been some times where I've, there's been something that's just like, oh man, I don't wanna do that. Or that's a troublesome thing. Or maybe I do wanna do that very thing, but I'm feeling the resistance, as you say, like. And then finally, for me, it's kinda like I just say effort. And then I just go and I run towards it 100 miles an hour. And- No matter what anybody says. No matter what anybody says. And then on the other side, it always feels better. It always feels amazing. And I always in context, look back and go, I can't believe that I had built that up so much. You know, like, this is way better. Yeah. I remember, I actually remember, I was interviewing the actor and singer LL Cool J. About 10 years ago, I was at the Beverly Hills, sorry, I was at the Four Seasons Hotel in Beverly Hills. And he was promoting a movie that he was in with Queen Latifa called The Holiday. I think it was. And I remember him me asking him, what's your secret to success? And this is a guy who's a very successful actor, a very successful albums. By the way, very successful business person, not just a media personality, he actually runs some hyper successful businesses. Yes, he does, absolutely. And I remember asking him, there was the last question I asked him. I had 20 minutes sit down interview with him. And it was the last question. And I said, what's like your biggest success tip? Like what's your secret to your success? And he said, it's standing on the edge of a cliff and looking down and seeing rocks and seeing like either death or injury or permanent maiming and just trusting that a net will appear when you step off. He says, you can't see the net, all you see is the rocks, but then you take a step off and you just have to trust that the net will appear. And he says, successful people know that to be true. And he said, you can say anything you want about, that's nonsense or whatever. But he said, successful people understand that concept. And I've never forgotten it. And so now sometimes that I'm like, oh, I don't want to do that. I imagine myself on the edge of a cliff and seeing the rocks down below. And I just step off anyway and know that the net will appear and it always does. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. That's beautiful. I have a lot of respect for him. He's one of those people who made a tremendous amount of money in music and then turned around and made it the tremendous amount of money, make him tremendous amounts of more money. Yes. And it's interesting how often top musicians and performers and actors and actresses become incredible business people because they're hardwired with this business, with this personality type. Yes. And we have to go out on a hunt. We have to create a bigger woolly mammoth to slay each time. And when you've been on enough stages and you've been in enough movies, now you take over the world of business. And he successfully did that. And that's interesting because it leads to the third state. And now this one's important, James, especially for the mom in the car. The third state that we exist in is in constraint. And this is where we get diagnosed. This is where we look symptomatic. This is where we look broken. This is where people don't wanna be around us because this is not like facing resistance where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. When you're in constraint, is that place where you feel like you can't move. You can't figure out how to create forward progress. You feel stuck. You feel like you can't move forward. James, have you ever been in that place? Yeah, I have, yeah. Do you remember how fast did your body start breaking down? Whatever I get stressed because I feel like things are going, at most of the time it's because things are going too slowly. Yeah, it's when you're being held in place. Absolutely. With my swanic sleep business at the moment, I have certain people in positions in the company. And I come from a daily newspaper background where every day I had a 6 p.m. deadline to convince people to talk to me, to write a story, to submit it to my sub editor every single day. 10 a.m., here's your story that you've gotta go and find and write today, James. 6 p.m. is the deadline you have to have it in. And so- Not 6 o'clock five, but 6 p.m. The moment I hear that the television news and the background starting to play, I know that that's the deadline. I had to have had my thing in by then. And so it was instilled in me from an early age. Now, now, now. Motion, motion, motion. Do it now, do it now, do it now. Not tomorrow, not the next day, not this afternoon, now. Okay, so that naturally comes to me. I like that. But then I have people who are in my team who are very good at what they do, except for the part that I don't like, which is I perceive them to be slow. I perceive them to just do things, not in the now, but like the next day or later. And whenever I ask, when do you think it's a good time that we could get this done? Oh, I'd say October 16th. I'm like, and I'm thinking to myself by five o'clock this afternoon. And it just causes me so much frustration because I'm now, now, now. And so I feel constrained in that time. And this is what I do. If you can see me, if you're listening to the podcast, rather than watching the video version, you won't be able to see me. But this is kind of how my body reacts when something like that happens, when I feel constrained. Yeah. So to explain to the listener what I'm doing is, I'm rubbing my fingers, my five fingers, my four fingers in my thumb on my right hand, over my forehead. And I'm literally rubbing it back and forth. I've done this so many times and I wonder if I've got some wrinkles and stuff like that. Oh, my eyes. Like I need to really bathe my face. Can I just rub a little thinner? Yeah, yeah. Because I rub my hands. I know I do it because at the end of the day, I can feel my forehead from being like moving back and forth. So to answer your question, when I feel constrained, I feel internal and external pain and suffering. Yeah, well, and here's what happens, James. When we're constrained, we're evolutionary hunters. So evolution has taught us to be in motion. When we're on the hunt, when we're going, that's when we feel at our best. And again, it doesn't matter how hard things are around us, entrepreneurial personality types can put up with the level of pain and stress and lack of food and lack of sleep and lack of everything else and still achieve our objective. And we do it all the time. But what we can't deal with is being held in place. Because when you're constrained, here's what happens. First, your body breaks down. Almost immediately we feel tired. We feel either attention deficit or hyperactive. We feel drained. We feel like we can't get up, chronic fatigue. You feel just exhausted all at once. That's first. Second, psychologically, like cognitively, we break down. We start getting brain fog. We can't make decisions. We feel like frustrated or upset. We get highly reactive. We might react in a way that just isn't necessary for the situation. And here's the big one, the third one. Chemically, we are affected. The same way that we get that massive rush of dopamine and serotonin, all the positive chemicals when we are on the hunt. Evolution has programmed us that you're on the hunt. Things are good. You're achieving, things are good. You're moving forward. We're gonna give you all the chemicals you need to keep doing that. But when we get held in place, instantly, the chemicals that cause depression and frustration and cause us to sit and stare at a wall or, you know, here's the big one for people like us, is you try to go to bed and you do more work between your ears in the time from when you lay down in bed to when you finally, like, mercifully fall asleep than most people do all day. Because when we're in constraint, this goes like crazy and it doesn't have anywhere to go. Our minds are on high and there's no hunt to apply it to. So when any one of us feels constrained, that's when you walk into a doctor's office and they start labeling you with bullshit, like bipolar and attention, tension, deficit and chronic depression and all kinds of other stuff. And by the way, James, I've been told I'm ADD, ADHD, Asperger's, autistic, bipolar, depressed, manic, all kinds of shit. And the fact is that I consult with people who move the world around like puzzle pieces. I've written over four million words, yet I have dyslexia. You know, when I look at all of those labels, what they're labeling is anyone who's different. And when you go back through history, there's a different equation because today, we say if someone doesn't show up like everyone else, learn like everyone else, talk like everyone else and act like everyone else, that's a broken person we need to diagnose, medicate and make normal. But the reality is throughout history, the person who didn't talk like everyone else, show up like everyone else, learn like everyone else and talk like everyone else is a brilliant person who changed the world. So if you've been diagnosed with any of those things, congratulations, you should be proud. Those are a badge of honor because that's the rest of the world saying you're different than we are and different is extraordinary. Because if you were average like everyone else, then you wouldn't be here to change things. And I believe just by the virtue of the fact that you're listening to us, that's exactly who you are. There are times when I feel societal pressure about the fact that I am a 42 year old man and not married and I don't have children. And in recent years, I've been exploring the idea that maybe there's something wrong or maybe there's I'm not doing something right or something is amiss with me. And I never used to be open to this kind of feeling. I was always like, I'm the different one. You know, I think I'm the smartest person in the world because I'm delaying this idea of settling down and getting married and I'm learning and I'm traveling. I'm doing all these kinds of things. And to hear you say, you know, different is extraordinary. I'm wondering whether I can make myself feel extraordinary by being different to society's norms which is get married, have kids, build a family, put down roots, stay in one place. That actually doesn't feel natural to me. I'm always on the move. I live a nomadic lifestyle. And I think sometimes I succumb to, well, hang on, society's telling me I should do that. Well, there's something wrong with me because I haven't done it and I kind of don't want to do it. And if I want to do it, it's only because society is telling me to do it. So I'm not sure what my question is there. I wonder if you had any thoughts on that. Absolutely, James. Fuck society. Because here's the reality. What you just said, and I mean that wholeheartedly because what you just said is get married, settle down, have kids, do this. You know what I really see? It's like get married and hope you don't end up one of the more than 50% of people who's divorced trying to see your kids on the weekend. Have kids and then go to work every day so you don't even see the kids and you don't understand who they are. And then struggle with them in school, you at work, not really building a relationship. The fact is you're doing it differently because that's how you're hardwired. And 42 years old, shit, dude, you are young. I've helped people who are in their 50s and 60s start businesses, launch careers, change the world. And when I look at someone who feels societal pressure to be something other than they are, here's what I will say to you, James. Any attempt to be anything other than fully who you are will only increase pressure and noise in your life. And I've spent time around you and my kids have spent time around you. And they are an incredible judge of character because they are congruency detectors. They know whether someone is living their life as they should. They know whether someone's telling them their truth. They know whether they wanna spend time around someone based on how they feel about that person. And they love you. And I believe that's because you are an evolutionary hunter who has said, this is who I am, this is how I intend to live, and this is how I'm gonna do things. And at 42 years old, on a daily basis, you are changing people's lives, helping them prove who they are, helping them live better, sleep better, quit drinking alcohol, like you're on a mission to help as many people as you possibly can. And so to anyone who tells you you're doing it wrong, I would sit down and take a close examination of their life and I assure you you would not train places with them. Well, thank you very much. So I appreciate that. I should send you a check for blowing smoke up my ass right here through my listeners. Thank you very much, Alex. It's very kind of you. I really appreciate the kind words. Thank you. But I mean that, James. I mean that. And I passionately mean that. Because I think that, you know what's happening right now is what you just shared. There's people who are listening right now and they're saying, wait, I'm feeling that same societal pressure. You know, I have clients who are women in their 20s who are making millions of dollars and their husbands are watching the kids. What kind of societal pressure do you think they get? I have clients who are women who are in their 40s and they're running multi-million dollar businesses and they're raising their kids in a congruent way. And you know what people say? Oh, you can't do all of that or you shouldn't even try and do all of that. Are you okay, honey? Are you fine, sweetie? And they feel the judgment of the people around them. I have clients that like me, my kids aren't in traditional school. I don't follow what society says. We do what we wanna do. Next week they're in Aspen all week with us. My kids go on business trips with me. Like they're in a learning program that has no attendance policy on purpose so that we can check them in and out as we want. So I don't believe that we should follow society's norms because when you look at the law of averages, most people aren't doing that well. And so for anyone who's listening who has that same feeling that you're getting some societal judgment, here's what I want you to think about. Those judgments are basically created by committee. It's like everybody got together and said we should all be married, we should all have kids, we should all do these things. And the fact is that anyone who's ever done anything extraordinary thumb their nose at society's norms and went off and did their own thing. Newton who was sitting underneath the apple tree and got hit in the head and discovered gravity was sitting there because he was a loner. He isolated, he didn't like being around other people. Pablo Picasso spent two years painting in blue. What we would call that today is an extended period of depression and in reality it's a period in art history created by a single person. And when I look at somebody like you James, I compare you to Picasso and Newton and Einstein and Socrates and Plato and every great entrepreneur throughout history who could not fit society's norms. In fact Socrates was sent off into a field to drink poison and die because he wouldn't agree with the rest of the world. And we live in a privileged time where the person who says I disagree, I'm not gonna be like that, I'm gonna make my own way, can do whatever they want and I applaud you for it. Thank you very much, Alex. I really appreciate those kind words. And to my mother, Jill Swannick, I hope you're listening. If she is, I'll get a text message from her at some point when this is released and she'll go, oh, I can't believe you mentioned me on the podcast, James. Yes, mum. Not so subtly applies to a little bit of pressure on me to get the marriage and the kids part going on. Just have a little listen to this. You know what James, it's gonna happen when it happens for you, man. And some of the most incredible people in my world have done everything in their lives in contrary to the way everybody else lives. And some of the most intense people that I know today are people who if you looked at how they live and how the rules with which they govern their life and the way that they make decisions, most of society would think they are crazy. But the fact is, they're also some of the most successful people in the entire world. And so I think that as evolutionary hunters, we owe it to ourselves to be exactly who we are. You know, James, it's funny. I always share with people, a few years ago, I woke up one morning and I'm like, screw this, I'm not gonna do it anymore. I'm not gonna wear the suits. I got rid of my entire wardrobe. I'm not gonna wear clothes that make me uncomfortable. Like I know what I like to be. I know how I like to show up and that's the only way I'm gonna do it anymore. So I literally unloaded about a half million dollars with the suits. When you're a consultant for 20 years, I ended up with an entire 12 foot closet, like a whole wall, two layers of suits and shirts and custom made clothes. And I literally put it all in trash bags and put it out on our garage. And I started wearing T-shirts and the pants that are comfortable and shoes that I like and whatever I really wanted. And here's what's interesting. When I wore $4,000 suits that had my name embroidered on the inside just because I needed to have a little bit more of an ego trip besides just wearing a nice suit, I got invited on some pretty important stages. When I started wearing T-shirts and showing up exactly like who I am and demanding that I would be who I was, I got invited on the biggest stages I've ever been on. And it wasn't until I said, here's who I am that people really started listening. And the day that I dropped the veneer and started sharing exactly what I was thinking and exactly how I was feeling and showing up in exactly the way I wanted to, that's when I got on stage with Robin Sharma at his event. That's when I met Steve Wozniak. That's when I shared the stage with Tony Robbins. That's when I started getting on podcasts like this. You know, there was a totally different type of person that wanted to listen when I was that guy. But when I became myself, that's when I feel like I truly stepped into the world I was meant to be in. Inspirational words there from Alex Schaffin who was the author of the book, The Entrepreneurial Personality Type. Make sure you grab a copy of that book. You can also listen to Alex on the Momentum podcast. In fact, when this episode ends, I would encourage you to just search in iTunes or Momentum podcast and hit subscribe so you can listen to Alex's words of wisdom on an ongoing basis. Where else can our listener find you, Alex? To URLs, you can go to freemomentumbook.com and download the Entrepreneurial Personality Type book. If you related to what James and I have been talking about, it will tell you more about yourself than anything ever has. And the second one is if you're not on iTunes, if you're on Stitcher or Google Play or any of that, you can go to momentumpodcast.com. So freemomentumbook.com, momentumpodcast.com, those are the two best places to connect with us. Wonderful, Alex. Thank you so much for that. If you're listening and you'd like to see the video version of this as well, I will be uploading this episode to YouTube, to my YouTube channel, which is James Swanick One. If you're a visual learner rather than audio learner, you can check that out there. Alex Schaffin, this has been a real pleasure to speak with you and converse with you today. Thank you so much for your words of wisdom for me and also for my listener. Oh, it's been my pleasure, James. Thanks for having me, man.