 But this session is going to speak. As you make your intervention, please project your voice. And now the table mic, I'm going to pick it up. We have two hours for this. We're going to have three things. And then a discussion on ways to make those decisions. That, Taylor is about to press the switch and we'll go online. Thank you very much, everyone. And if you need to leave and get some food, I think those three are the other three outside. Well, welcome to all of you again, and also welcome to our online community. I just wanted to summarize where we are and where we're going. So this morning, we met in our small groups, private sector, the group that looked at mining and linking it from the war economy, and the third group that looked at how corruption can be addressed and eliminated. So we have deliberated in our groups on those three issues. And each of us have come up with a set of recommendations. And we focus on what the diaspora can do within its capacity to address each of those three issues. And so what I would like to do now is turn it over to our representatives from each of those three groups that will brief us on what was said, and more importantly, what the recommendations are. But I also wanted to remind our online community that they can still send us questions and comments. As we go on, we have six bloggers who are monitoring the online community, so we will get your views across. With that, I think I'll just turn it over. We will start with the private sector group. And if you could just, I'm sorry, the mining group, sorry. And if you could just identify yourself for the benefit of those who may not have been here this morning, as well as the online community, and then go on to summarize your session. OK, thank you. My name is Kitanga Ngambua, and I am from the Congo. Our group looked at the mining conflict in Eastern Congo, in particular, even though we talked about some of the issues that have affected Shekamin, which is in Lubumbashi. In looking at the mining problems in the Congo, we talked about the fact that it's a problem that has to be looked at from a two-prong perspective. One is a political angle to it, and the other, of course, is the economic aspect of the mining conflict in the Congo. The reason why we thought that we needed to talk, to look at both angles, is that without a viable government, there is no long-term solution to that problem. Corruption, of course, came up time and time again. And the need to create a political system that then yields a government that is accountable to the people becomes paramount. But as a preface to our discussion, Professor Kabamba gave a historical perspective as to who the players in the region are at the moment. And he identified about five groups. As we know, the FDLR is one of them. The CNDP, the Congolese Army, Monique, which is the United Nations forces in the Congo. He also talked about the North Traders. And there is some degree of interconnectedness among those different forces. The semblance of peace in Eastern Congo in that region has to do with the fact that neither one of those forces is stronger than the other. And so they balance out each other. So no one is stronger than the other, so no one can defeat the other guy or the guy next door. So that is what seems to have created the semblance of peace that seems to be perceived, if you will, in Eastern Congo. In talking about ways to go about resolving some of these very, very complex questions, we looked at what Secretary Clinton talked about during her visit in the Congo in August. And one of the things she talked about was the need to go back to the root cause of the conflict in the Congo. And our group is of the view that it is important that we capitalize on the administration's goodwill, if you will, to work towards a more durable solution to the conflict in the Congo. So that was part of our recommendations in terms of ways to resolve the situation regarding mining. A number of questions were raised relative to this situation, and one of which was to the extent that all the militia that are operating there or the companies that are doing business that were to stop operating in that region would that put an end to the war? And answers were diverse. There were people who thought, yes, that could, in fact, help to stop the war. But there are those who also thought, no. I think we have to look at the bigger picture and address the real cause of the situation in order for Elastic Peace to be created. We also talked about the need for looking at the establishment of original structure, whereby different countries in the region can work together and create a more legal interaction in the area of mining. In talking about the original structure, we went back to a model that existed in the past, the SIPA JL, for those who know about the Congo a little bit and know about that. And even in proposing that we look at that model and try to revive it now, we went back again to the political climate in the Congo. And that is, even if we were to be able to bring back structures or paradigms such as the SIPA JL, the makers of laws in the Congo today remain corrupt. And so nothing is really going to work unless the political situation in the Congo is dealt with. And a lot of the speakers were quite adamant to the need for the participation of the US government in helping the Congo create a government that is legitimate, a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Part of the other recommendations with regard to the political difficulties in the Congo was, again, to get the US government to tell, basically, Rwanda and Uganda, which have been the mineral countries in export of minerals from the Congo to basically stop interfering in the internal affairs of the Congo. One of the other recommendations that was made was with regard to how to put an end to illicit mining. Suggestions were made to the fact that if the companies that are doing business in the Congo today were to help revive companies that existed in the past and, as a result, employ more Congolese, that could be one of the ways to go about addressing that problem. And in the process of coming back to help the Congo revive its mining industry, the terms of reference as far as the contracts are concerned have to be absolutely clear to the fact that part of the contract has to do with training, in fact, transfer of technology to the Congo, so that at the end of, say, a 20-year agreement with the Congo, the company that came to invest there can begin to exit. But at the same time, human resources have been put in place for Congolese themselves to take charge of their mines in the future. One other recommendation that was made, and we did recognize the fact that the Congo is different from South Africa, but I think we did bring the parallel between the Congo and the apartheid regime of South Africa and the kinds of pressure that were put to bear on companies which were doing business with South Africa at the time as a way of, in fact, dealing with companies which are doing business in Congo today in a way that is detrimental to the people of the Congo. So those were some of the things that our group talked about, and I will refer to my colleagues in the group if there are things to be added or corrected for that matter, for them to jump in. Thank you. Should we go to questions now, or? Oh, OK. Sorry. I think what has to be made clear is that the demand is not granted and appears, but the demand is that Rwanda and Rwanda leave Congo as soon as they're serving. That's the decision I wanted to make in regard to, because we don't just talk, it's the past. We look also at Angola. Angola has to be also brought to life, say, don't go into the field in the Congo's business, get out of Congo. We have disputes. We have put all the pressure between the United Nations in regard to water limitations. And Angola is not complying. So this is something that has to be looked upon. In regard to Cahemba, which is a region in the Congo, Angola has to move out and return to the border that was left as a dependence through the colonial country. So these issues are real. So we say that, given the weakness of the government and competency, elections in the Congo will be a farce because lack of security. And the fact that there is so much corruption, it's not going to be the conducive environment for holding good elections in order to make the reform that we are proposing in regard to the mining sector. Because big corruption is in the mining sector. Are there others from the mining group that want to add? Yes. I'm sorry. If you could just identify yourself first. We, Angola, I don't know from Congo. We also point out the fact that for those with international who are today exploiting illegally, meaning I'm a resource of Congo, they should pay some damage by, if you want, or tax, to be collect and make a trust fund to be used to finance humanitarian program in Congo. And this money has to be managed by a special agency not given to the corrupt government of Congo. Very right now, we want to have a constitution in the code of the mining of the kit to support the sector for the Congo and for the public. Maybe can someone translate? We don't have translation services. Yes, I can. They can review the constitution and the mines codes, which are very necessary for the population of Congo. OK. Any other comments? I want to go to our online community to see if we have comments from the mining section yet. Not on the mining section yet. OK, Sasha. Yeah. So Sasha Lezhnev represents Grassroots Reconciliation Group, our discussion was a very good dialogue about this issue and also wanted to inform those who are not participating in our group that my organization with the enough project is trying to help advocacy on this issue, particularly relating to the minerals that are mined in the conflict area and how they are used in electronics, cell phones, and laptop computers. And so our session was very useful to help input into the kind of campaign that we are helping doing. And we look forward to continuing dialogue with all of the diaspora groups as we move forward on this issue. We are just starting our campaign and trying to help the aim is, of course, to help resolve the conflict in the east. And so one of the ways to build awareness and attention for that issue is through the conflict minerals issue. So we look forward to that. Thank you. My suggestion is that all three of the people would present what you've been saying so that after that you can go through the Q&A. Because I'm sure they're all going to. Yes, we were just getting input from other members of the mining sector group. But if we can go on now to the private sector. Good afternoon. I'm Angelique Potombo-Davis, Executive Director of BPIA and also wearing an Anavankongo hat. My group consisted of nine people. And we talked about strengthening the private sector. Our discussion was really lively. And we first started with talking about challenges and identifying what the private sector is, who makes up the private sector. And we basically broke it down into four different groups. The informal sector or semi-informal, which was the mom and pops doing business every day on the streets. Large corporations, the paracetal, and our mixed corporations. So it's privately owned as well as government owned. And also the illegal sector, which is what unregistered groups doing business. So those were the four groups. And some of the challenges that we identified, especially for diasporans living here and going back to do business in the Congo, was that there wasn't really a welcome atmosphere for us. Or at least the feeling was that the lack of infrastructure basic infrastructure made it really difficult for people to go back and do business. Also just providing basic needs for the populations abroad, like passports and things like that. Made it was a barrier. It was a big challenge for us. Also just even the infrastructure at the airport, putting together a welcoming environment, having things that work at the airport, knowing where to go and all that. One of the group members talked about how you go back to your own country and have somebody come and get you at the airport because you don't know the ins and outs of the airport and other public offices. So those were some of the challenges. And we also identified some workflow issues with the government that people who were investing wouldn't really know. There was a breakdown in the finance system, justice, the regulation, taxes, security, infrastructure, banking, tariffs, labor laws. And just inaccessibility to the information. I think we talked about there being like 32 different taxes imposed on people trying to do business in Congo. And the fact that Congo was number 181, on a list of 183 countries, worst places to do business. So that's really telling. And so one of the things that we said was that we needed to have a better link between entrepreneurs and the banking system. We also thought that we should have set taxes in a clear roadmap on how to set up a business, have clear property rights, also invest in connectivity, and have access to information for people who are trying to set up business in the Congo. One of the main points that came out of the discussion was that we realized that Congolese are really entrepreneurial. And without that entrepreneurial spirit, Congo would not exist. And I think that needs to be highlighted, that your regular Congolese person is entrepreneurial. Otherwise, they cannot survive. Some of the recommendations we came up with was that we should think about forming groups here in a diaspora, kind of like cooperatives, to work and invest in the Congo. Another recommendation was that the government be more transparent and accountable to the tax revenues that they receive. Also, we talked about those of us here becoming more actively involved in the economy over there. I think we all send remittances back to family or to start businesses. But I think we need to become more active because we have something to bring to the table. Also becoming more vocal about policy and giving policy recommendations so that the environment in the Congo is improved. Another recommendation, which wasn't fully discussed but was brought up, was perhaps creating a stock market. And some of the next steps we would like to see following this discussion today is putting together a symposium or practical workshops to figure out where we can find resources to invest in the Congo, maybe working with donor agencies as well as other organizations working in the Congo to bring everybody together to discuss how we can reinvest the money that their corporations are getting and that donor agencies are giving to the Congo to effectively work together. And also that when donor agencies are looking for technical assistance, that they tap into the African diasporas living here, not just the usual suspects that they hire, but look at nationals from the countries they're working in to work in the Congo. So those were the things we brought up. I'm hoping that other members of my group can add to whatever I probably invest. Anyone from the mining group? I'm sorry, private sector group? Everyone's, yes. We also underlined the fact that we should look at ourselves as being part of the program. So we need also to be part of the solution. The whole community, the Congolese community has invested in us through education. We cannot only look at the generals and the politicians as being the problem. We need to make sure we can bring our entrepreneurial spirit out with ideas and actually start small businesses and then work with others, use our know-how to work with others and create that link that is missing between the informal sector and the capital. Anyone else from private sector? So there is only one point I did. We did assist on the necessity of the fund, the finance, to finance the private sector, taking it from the informal level in which we are. Just to remind that Congo is 60 million people, the same size like France or the United Kingdom, just a huge market. So we cannot try to use those small solutions that are brought by the Congolese abroad. We recall that the Congolese send in less than 10 years, we run from 600 million per year. We're sending on transfer to 1 million to three years now, and we are over 1.5 billion of money sent back home. This is not what really created the development of Congo. So we tap into our natural resource reserve, $23 trillion reserve of gold, known and exploited. So this can be coming to back up a state-born on one of our group, just issue the idea to say we need a 5 billion investment for each province multiplied by 26. That makes the 140 billion project that we launch on the air to make a kind of martial plan since we went through a 10 years war that cost us 6 million people, really the warning to take this step to bring to rebuild the country with a very aggressive project of 140 billion. And people, we hope the United States can take the lead on that with all the G20 and the Belgium to take over the 5 billion project to rebuild infrastructure, school, education system, role to connect the country and connect the South Africa to Western Africa by crossing the DRC. Others from the private sector? OK, I'm going to turn to the corruption group. OK, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Amani Luanzo. I'm a member of Congo Voices. And I think it's important to point out that the Zero Tolerance for Corruption title doesn't have to do with the President Kabila Zero Tolerance campaign. This is something different. This is so it doesn't have to do with the, so we're not going to comment on his campaign, but on corruption in general in the Congo. OK, the first thing we did was try to define what corruption is. There's a group differentiated between grand corruption and petty corruption. And we realize that petty corruption is usually a function of low wages, lack of minimum wage, impunity, and it's like a form of survival. While grand corruption is encouraged by the system, it's also, it feeds into the expectations of people. It's also maintained due to the lack of transparency and job security that some top government officials have and the lack of repercussions for engaging in corruption. The next thing we did was we looked at the different, the cost of corruption. What is corruption costing the Congo? Politically, corruption undermines the government. It makes the government weak and inefficient because money that the government is supposed to collect, the government does not collect it because it goes into individuals' pockets instead of into government coffers. And we also mentioned the fact that politically, we view political institutions as a source of access to wealth and not to serve the population, which is a problem. Socially, what corruption costs to the DRC is there is a problem of insecurity, the fact that instead of the military getting paid, they are not getting paid so they don't do their job to protect civilians. There's also a cost in the humanitarian development because in order to the different international agencies that are operating and assisting the Congo, they have some of the money is diverted, money that could be used to help the population is diverted into paying for the informal costs or unaccounted costs for actually being present in the Congo. And also, it's short changes the government. And economically, the cost of corruption increases the cost of doing business in the Congo, decreases foreign investment, decreases the engagement with the outside world because of the difficulty of importing countries into the, importing products into the country. And we also discussed a few recommendations that the diaspora could do to address corruption in the Congo. The first thing we came up with as a recommendation was to denounce corruption, denounce corruption in our different host countries and to talk about it in the media over the night with each other to have to keep this discussion going. And also, another something else that came up that I think is important to mention is oftentimes the diaspora is kind of seen as the opposition to the government that's in power. And we said it's important that we foster an image of being the civil society where we applaud positive things that the government is doing as well as the bad things so that we can also be credible when we raise our voices against anything we feel is going wrong in the Congo. We also realized that significant change has to come from within Congo. So we have to identify what is being done within the Congo by the civil society there and by others and see ways to support the different actions. And also, we also have to demand accountability at the level of our host countries, because we know since most of us were living in the Western world, and a lot of our host countries provide aid to the Congo. And there are laws in the United States, for example, against doing business in a corrupt country. We demand that these laws be implemented and taken seriously. I'm sure I might have left something so maybe the members of my group can add anything. Members of the corruption group? I think we also addressed one issue of looking at corruption at all levels. It means from looking from the small guy in the street to the office of the president. The way we do is to look at the various ways of addressing it in a very effective way. And so what we discussed was, if there is an anti-corruption, which is created, if that commission has also a problem, or is made up of people who are corrupt, then there is to have a system within the country which looks at the issue of corruption in a broader sense. It means that everyone should be watching over everyone. So it doesn't have to be the work of one government agency, which cannot probably do the work in a very effective way. So it has to be a coordinated channel of people who are looking at this issue. And also, we talked about the independence of institutions. So one of the problems is the lack of accountability, as you just mentioned. So we thought if we have institutions which are independent, waking independently from one matter, it's going to be a courage to pursue cases in a sense that those who are held accountable can be held accountable because of the neutrality or can be held accountable because they are strong institutions. But if we let those institutions, it's going to be very difficult to have one person or the executive to take control of all the matters of corruption. So putting those independent institutions would be a key to success to address the issue of corruption. I was from the corruption group that went to add to these presentations. No? Anything from the online community? OK, well, I guess I'd like to open up the floor to the rest of us. Your comments, suggestions on any of the three. And when you do make your recommendations or comments, if you could just tell us what group you are, which area you are making your suggestions for. So the floor is open. Yes? A question from one of our online participants. How do you think that the private sector and the DRC could be strengthened even while peace is still far away? Yes. There is no private sector which can only be performed. With the exception of the few, the private sector has to say, if I'm here, we don't have a private sector in the country. Pops and mom shops are just survival. It's a matter of survival in the country. I just came from there and I'm returning. But I can't say to you that very much. We are trying to create a private sector. We need to create a private sector. That's the reason why we have problems. Because there is no private sector to sustain democracy fight, democracy struggle. If you don't have a private sector, you don't have a middle class, or therefore we're making for democracy, because we pay it. These are the people who support democracy. So we don't have a private sector. We need one. When you talk about mining and other activities, they are held in the hands of foreigners. Just point out the issue about financing the private sector. Name one convoly's bank that is funding activities in the convoly. None. None. They are, first of all, subsidiaries of foreign banks. So how can you create the private sector? And you don't even have the whole bank. The so-called Kesteban is broke. He's broke. But in Mutembo, because the bank has money. But when they want to get money, they just want, say there's not money here, not working. Yeah, the problem in the convoly is the social and the whole thing has to be organized. That's my comment in regard to the private sector. OK. Mr. Alula and then Mr. Chombilangana. OK. Just by saying that you empty our section, like we didn't work on that, we work on that subject. That's why we come with three, four different groups. Just because we're talking to the people who don't know, I know you must have the situation in the convo for being here and going back and forth in the country. Part of your response are true and real. I would not dispose of it. But there is a private sector that we call the illegal sector. All those mining companies in the Easter, we put them on illegal private sector group. We spoke about informal business. Informal business, what is very important when you go to Kinshasa, you will see that after every two or three parcel, people are selling something else high. So that was a shock for me, saying so many people selling who is buying, but I respond to myself. But because they are selling, that means people are buying. In Kinshasa, more than 8 to 9 million people, to get together in a stadium 110, it becomes just a joke. Because in the time, Kinshasa has one or two million people to have 100,000 people in the stadium. That was a very big soccer game, Vita Imana, Belima, and so on, or international soccer game. To get back to the private sector point, we, in our group, we point out all the issue that you raise. Finance, there is no source of funding to make the business to live the informal level, because people have the creativity how to bring their idea to a business. And we raise also a point, since the desk, Congolese diaspora has been investing their own money without any institution help or assistance to build those small business. We know that for those who are following online, we're talking about the flat hotel in Kinshasa. This is those are the initiative, not our large corporate outside of the country. This is Banamboka, just saying, okay, in my area, we put five or 10 room here, then if you have people coming to vacation, we start using it. And one thing I will also point out is very important. I have, I meet this guy in Paris. He just went back home and he found someone dying in their area. They didn't have money to pay for the coffin. And they say, okay, go buy me some food and everything they just improvise something to put this guy inside and bury him. When he came back in Paris, he goes to the car junk, junkyard and get one old car and put in the ship and send it back home. He make it a Corbija, how you call it? A hearse. A hearse. That's the starting of his business and the business get bigger. So Congolese are really entrepreneurial as we say it in our group. The point you made on the finance side and this is why in our group, we also point out the outside influence because since the government revenue is diverted by the war and everything, nothing is coming to build this infrastructure or to build the country. This is, that's what the picture of. He's saying that informant private sector which is taking almost 60% of the business in Congo the problem is the weakness, the lack of policy because this small informal business must be integrated in some micro economics policy from the government. There is the ministry of small enterprise or small business which has attribution to transform, integrate, transform this informal small business in formal business where we can talk about private sector. But that was a failure. So the problem also there are many barriers which can help to integrate this informal business they were talking about lack of finance, the credit. The loan is something strange in Congo. I'm glad you brought that up because that's one of the recommendations. Yes, they needed to access to loan, it's a problem. But you will see there is a double standard there because you will see some foreign who can, they don't have even any collateral but they can access to big loan. You see, that's another problem because the guy who is providing loan is using order criteria than a right one. And also the government, he talked about which is a small cooperative or small saving bank, somewhere very powerful, even in Shamsa. The criteria I must made good profits but they were shut down because of the government couldn't take that organization and integrate it in formal business financing process. So we can, there are many small cooperative, the government must look at how to make them more efficient and to be also partner to buy share in this big foreign bank. The foreign bank are there but nobody is buying some share, even two, five percent. So that's a problem. Okay, hold on, I have six people. Professor Kabamba. Yes, I think the private sector have been to formalize. And I wanna give just one example where I found a very successful private sector but which are presenting limitation now. And I was interested to this region because I was looking at something which is successful in this chaotic conglomerate. And I remember one day on Bolivari Town, June, Rompon Sosima, there were interaction around 1 a.m., a group of prostitutes and young men. And one prostitute said that it was said that in Swahili, who come on Monday and you come in Malaysia? Or is that Monday, not Monday, I mean that, are you a Monday so that I could beg you? That's to show that the reputation of the banana is these people are very successful who private sector in North East, they have millionaires. But the limitation is now that with this money and because of the war around, they can't, even though they have ideas, they always say that everything we bring from Dubai, China could be produced here in Dutembo. We could even start infant manufacturing industry. Here in Dutembo, we have power, we have money. But the thing is, you need a big investment which is beyond the private sector. The millions are sitting in Hong Kong, but there's nothing, I mean, you need a more formal organization, I mean, governments becoming really reliable so that these people could expand. You need a free way to bring everything they produce. So the informal sector, even if it could be successful, it have a limitation. In the level of Congo as a country, I think what we discussed here, we need real government for people of Congo which is what all this dynamism. There's no lack of entrepreneurship in the Congo. The 90s have demonstrated it. But in terms of the whole country, we need more formal, informal is no longer enough. What I've seen in Dutembo. Okay, Bernard Londoni? Yeah, just to throw you back to the question I'm interested in life, there's still a problem when we have violence today probably my recommendation if I can answer the question that was going to be, unless we stop violence or we establish a peace and a security environment which can attract the direct foreign investment who will not be able to make progress I mean our private sector. Like just what Professor Kabanda said, if we put in place a government which works very well, not a dysfunctional government but a government which really works very well for the people and which can create a peace and security sustainability. In that sense, there will be an environment where foreigners also can come and invest not only the Congolese people but if we have an environment of peace and security and people in foreign countries see that there is an opportunity in the Congolese that the business then will be able to attract the foreign investment. Thanks Theo Amani. There is a point that came during our discussions and we may not have agreed on it but the idea was that and I can see from people's interventions here we are no longer talking about corruption and mining we are talking about private sector and the idea is really that we have only one problem in common and that's poverty. Poverty because there was no real economic infrastructure built and without infrastructure and nobody seems to know where to get started. People rise to the top, they want to build the country from top down. So we have a government. It's like you have a big CEO of an empty house. There's nothing going on but you still have a CEO and you want to like import that foreign structure because France have a Ministry of Information where we also need a Ministry of Information because we are also a sovereign country even if he has nothing to do. So and even those wars they're fighting for government and the way we put it in my I represent a group called Bisou and Abiso the way we put it is like we are fighting for the roof of a lost house. Then building the house should start with the foundation and then the economic system and the politics comes to cover and protect but in Congo we start with politics. It's okay to think that we're going to change the government and bring in new better policies but who is going to do it? That may be out of our reach and the attitude would be like help me clean this house and then I come. We don't see ourselves as being the players who should clean up the house. So my suggestion is that we need to really forget about all those problems. There are people there who are surviving who are becoming a union like someone said there and business is really booming when you go to Congo. You just don't understand how it's happening because we have learned about structures that should exist and we go there and we don't see those structures and we wonder how is it happening? And I really remember back in 85 who had some specialists from the European Union who came and they did a survey and they said according to their calculations everybody should be dead in Congo. I'm wondering how are you still alive and because we can see people running around but according to our simulation here in our computers. So we cannot ignore what already exists. We need to build on what is there. Going to the base, the community at the lowest level and start working with them with the structures that already exist because the only problem really is economic and everything else from corruption to violence toward women to everything that has been discussed, you know, the center of it is poverty. No foundation for the house. I have Mr. Mushagasha. Yes, the question I said already was what you said. When we were talking something came in mind and I want to take after him when he says that it's poverty which is the cause of everything. Now my question to him is it poverty which brought war in Congo? Because is that war which is the cause of more poverty that we are seeing today? I think having that discussion is really deviating the problem and will never come up to a point where we bring a solution to the problems that we are discussing about here. The question, the online question was can the private sector in Congo improve in a situation of war? I think that's what we should focus on, answering to that question. And my answer is that no, we cannot do nothing. We cannot improve the private sector. If even if it's informal today, there's no way for us to make it formal as long as this war is going on. Because this war, like the proc said it, then only are people living in North Congo. They are being discolored or they are being hit somewhere because of this war. But it's not only the Nandes. It's a, we had Kassayans, Kassayans, people from Kassayans who were very also good in business, who are billions. But today because of war, we thought that everything came down. And we know that the government that we have today is a government which is a result of which has been created by those who have sponsored this war. So it's a government which is there just to continue doing, to continue the cycle of poverty which is there. So I think the man who has answered the question online we should find a solution for him. And answer for him, and my answer to him is that in this situation of war, of crisis, the private sector will never improve in Congo. Those who are continuing or having money in private sector are those who are connected to the government. And that multiplies again the corruption. Because you need to be either a friend or a relative to a general for you to do business. You need to be either a friend or a relative to a minister for you to do business. And then from outside, we will see that things are going very well. But if you go inside, you dig in, you dig really, you'll find that there is a connection that all people don't have. Can I respond quickly? Just very quickly, because I want to get through the list. And you're just responding directly, James? Okay. Yes, I think there are two attitudes we can have. We can decide to be big things, there is this situation and we can just sit down with the rest of our lives and do nothing like waiting for things to improve before we can do something. Or we can decide that we need to be positive players and see how we can intervene to change the situation. Because we can really go there and connect with the base and work with them. They are the real power. But if we are not there, we need that vacuum. Politicians come and use it. And many other players, outside players. Because we are not there. Okay, I have David Emerson. Hi, I'm David Emerson. I lived in Macau many years ago, more than I care to remember. And I run a little blog site called Congo Resources. And so I've been interested in Congress for 20 plus years. I want to bring this discussion back a little bit to specifically the diaspora. And I want to begin by just asking some very basic questions. Do we know how big it is? Do we know where it's located? Do we know how well educated it is? We know where it's located. And I think a very good exercise would be to find out as much as we can about that. Because you may discover that there are in fact some things that you can do as members of the diaspora specifically vis-a-vis the US government. For example, if you find out that many Congolese live in two or three specific locales, you may be able to organize yourselves in a way that you can then go to the US representative, your congressional representative and say, listen, there are 500 of us dual citizens who live in your district and we care about this and we would like you to do X or Y or Z. And you'll be surprised at how willing the congressman will be to listen to you. I think another thing that you can do specifically that would be helpful is to act as translators and interlocutors between NGOs working on the ground on the issues you care about and agencies and groups in the US who fund, who are interested in funding these kind of groups. So that, for example, if you have, if you know of an NGO working on exposing corruption in the government, well, you can sort of introduce that group and find out about that group and then go to groups here in the US like the Rockefeller Foundation and other foundations, perhaps even the US Institute of Peace and ask them to say, listen, we have this group that's doing good work, but it really needs 10,000, 20,000 dollars, can you help us? And so as ambassadors, as translators, that's another role that you can specifically play. And then finally, I mean, look at the example of Liberia. Here you have someone who was, in fact, a member of the diaspora who became president of the country and who brought her technocratic skills to back to Liberia. I think there's, I understand the sense that Kabila is a very powerful man and that he's likely to do everything he can to fix the elections. He controls the oppressive, he controls the media, he controls the money, but the fact is that he doesn't control the eastern part of the country anymore. He's not going to get those votes, right? He got in 2007. He's certainly not going to win the votes in the east. So I think he's much more vulnerable than you think. And I think that the diaspora can play a very important role in if they organize, if they unite, and if they lend their voice and their money to opposition forces within the condos. So I'll leave it there. Okay, I have four people that's remaining on the list. And what I'd like to do is get through these four people and then work on our recommendations, okay? So next on my list is in Vemba. I'm in Vemba. I just want to say a couple of things actually. One, we need to avoid holding Congo hostage to the war zone. Congo is bigger than the eastern corridor where the war is. Most of the provinces don't have war. So there's an entire area where mining, I mean, business should be promoted. So we talk in terms of Bukavu, to the one, those places actually, the economy is doing okay. If you consider them in the case of Congo, Bukavu is much more progressive and doing well as compared to Bandundu, to Manaka. So there's a war economy that is actually a boom. There's new hotels, springing all over the place. The cost of living, it's more expensive in Bukavu, it's actually living in DC. If you're going to rent a room at the Mount Kawizi, it costs you about $80 a night, NGOs. So the economy is not suffering, let's be clear here. People are suffering, there's rape, there's all kinds of things. But the economy in Bukavu or in Goma, it's amazing. You find homes like you went Potomac. Put you to shame. You put me to shame as a member of the diaspora. My diploma don't amount to anything when I'm down there. That's one. Two, as far as private sector, just something just came back to me. There's an institution called Sohide. So Hide was the backbone of the private enterprise, the small and medium enterprises in Congo. For a long time, shareholders including the IFC, the Aljons, the Romankanses and all the stuff. In the early nineties, this company decided to pull out of Congo under the guise of punishing Mubutu. We're familiar with this amber gold type of regime. But once Mubutu was out, nobody went back to invest. I was in Kinshasa trying to promote Sohide. So Hide has a pipeline of the 180 million dollars. These are the requests they get from the various businesses around the country. Congo these businesses. Group like the IFC, Romain and other groups should be pushed, reminded that they were at one time shareholders in this complex institution. They should go back. It is those institutions that will pump, if you will, the small businesses that have been struggling because the infrastructure is there. So we should not try always to reinvent the wheel. Most of Congo is free, it's open for business. Institution at the skeletal institution is at the addition, that's what I'm saying. Then I have Agnes Dimandia. The situation in the Congo is hurting because when you look at one side of the potential of that country, it's not only mining. There are other potentialities and possibilities that exist. And on the other side you have the human capital. As everybody recognize it, the Congolese don't like entrepreneurial skills. Something is wrong. There is a cycle of poverty that is sustained somewhere and maintained and desired. And as we spoke here, we forgot to point out the role that the European Union, the countries of the member of the European Union have played. Most of these countries are implicated in the pillaging of the country. They spoke about the constitution. The mining code, they started, they made them. They are maintaining this cycle of poverty of the Congolese people so they can manipulate them and do whatever they want. Congo does not deserve this kind of situation in which it found itself, as well as the Congolese people don't deserve this kind of treatment. I may have been harsh in saying that there is no private sector in the Congo. Bear in mind that there have been some vibrant entrepreneur in the Congo. But I wanted to point out the fact that when the country is not well-governed, it's not going to work. The fish start by working from the head, not from the tail. Deborah mentioned some of the regions that are open for business. I mean, in Chazabu, Umbashi, Mishimai. So today Mishimai is on its knees. Why? Because Miba, the diamond-producing company, all the money was taken by the government to finance the war. Now the government does not come up with money to relaunch the company. Yes, there was some mismanagement. But the one who took the money of Miba is the government. 160 million was taken to finance the war. He mentioned about Sofideh. Sofideh today, the managing director of the classmate of mine at the university, had to go to China to ask for money. So Chinese are coming to fund Sofideh because the West could not finance Sofideh. So that one of the aspects will bring in Chinese in the Congo. And they are already there. You will be surprised. In Umbashi, there was just one Chinese restaurant now. They are just coming because Chinese are coming in the Congo. Yes, Congolese entrepreneur, Congolese art on the level of Sofideh. The professor Kabamba mentioned the fact that Nandis have been making money and they are not investing. They are investing in Hong Kong. They are buying real estate in Chazabu because they are no more secure in Goma. They feel like everything will be destroyed. Pai Pai lost all his farm. He lost everything. So many examples that can be given of people who had invested but have lost their properties. When you come to Katanga, everybody will say, oh, Katanga is booming. Katanga is booming. How many jobs have been created in Katanga? So you can say that there is change coming because the country is at peace. Most of the money goes into the pocket of something. When Je Kamin was given money by the Chinese to start, the money was gone. Then you go to Je Kamin. Today is also unable to pay its personnel. The issue of working in Congo is real. As the blogger mentioned, the diaspora can be the one that can save Congo if they speak one voice. If they focus on what is necessary for the people of Congo, right now what we need in Congo is a good, competent government with laws that we can define to make the country move forward. It's critical that we address this issue. If we don't, we're going to be turning you into a circle of politics. Okay. I have Nita and Intel, and I think after that I want to move to recommendations. Very brief. Just to answer the question of how the private sector is at peace, I can say that the private sector can help actually improve peace practice in Congo. I'm talking about the international investors, because if Congo becomes the place where people can invest and their interest is protected, I'm sure we're going to have those investors, the international investors, be our ally to push about peace in the Congo. The reason why they're not doing that is because right now we don't have very much serious companies doing business in Congo because the risks are too high. And that's why we have those explorers, people who really take big risks to invest in Congo instead of very, very serious companies that could actually help bring peace in many of those areas in Congo. Okay. Intel, and then you have the last word. Just a quick couple of points. The first one is that when we're looking at the issue of the diaspora getting involved in what I call the reconstruction of the BRC, I always want to call us to one point and say as we consider what we think and what we're capable of doing, we are required to also look at the perception of the locals vis-à-vis us. How do they perceive us? What do they think? Because in the end, we're going to have to work with those who are there. And so far, like it or not, the perception of the diaspora working is a negative one. What I know for sure is that they look at those who have come before us and what they have done. And they point and say, see, the second thing that they look at is how much have we been able to accomplish where we live? And if we have nothing to show for, then they ask, so what do you think you're going to be able to do here? And there comes that call for maybe being organized, the unity here. We have to be mindful of the fact that if we act like some spoiled brats, some complainers, some victims, that is what is being heard. And that's the perception against which we're going to start working. The next point is that of saying, it's a combat upon us as we see what we're going to do. I feel sorry sometimes when I hear somebody talking about doing business in the Congo and they are talking about doing the pop and mom shop that somebody in the Congo is already doing. And my thing becomes, if you come with the mighty dollar to sort of take the business away from those who are doing that already and contributing to more poverty of it, I say there's really a poverty of what I say the mentor in us. Can we think big? Can we think about something that is going to be at a national level? Can we think of some? Those are the points that, for me at this particular point, I like to put on the floor because sometimes I wonder what we think of ourselves as being moderates of that development background. Last word. I have a question on I think a recommendation. Corruption, you say how is it but I didn't see from the group, I don't know if I forgot. I didn't see talking about zero tolerance in Congo. In Congo, means why? Does that implement all audit reports who are there? Because people who were being corrupted these who are mismanaged, the public firms, they are there, reports are there from they come from what general inspection of finance and all auditing institutions. Look at this. Can we start from there? Because these people are running institutions in Congo. So tomorrow when you put new institutions they will be different. How can you enforce the law if you don't start by looking at some reports, recent Plutundula Commission, the Parliament Commission, all reports there with names what has been done just the little boy or the little people as you say are taken by the big he talked about the mining the guy who was running me back, run away with what? Millions of dollars today I think he has been appointed ambassador somewhere. Can you believe where is zero tolerance? I think it's back in the recommendation already. Oh sorry. Let me just I've been taking notes let me just point out some of the things that have come out as recommendations and we can move forward on that. First is there anything any pass me a note? One question from the online group is are we going to be pointing out specific ways to denounce well they're very specific to denounce corruption in the U.S. but I think that we can think of when we're formulating our recommendations think in terms of specificity so this question can also apply to the other two areas. Some of the things that you all have mentioned in terms of proposed actions forming networks that's come up in a variety of ways. Understanding who the diaspora are and who they represent in terms of understanding your own power. Forming networks to invest in Congo. The need to build on existing structures. Using the diaspora to lead discussions or ideas for development I'm just summarizing what you said Intel. Mr. Mr. was just talking about the diaspora needs to make use of existing reports and information. Some of the things that you have been mentioning throughout the discussion but going forward what types of actions would you propose? Yes. My name is about the corruption. You will notice that in Congo the corruption is everywhere. So, whatever the people who intervened before me said it's a real problem but the Congolese are people that originally are ready for a change. I'm going to give you a single example. When Chisekedi was appointed prime minister everyone knowing that Chisekedi is someone who can work everyone changed overnight. For example all people who were stealing government cars they returned all cars in the Congress in front of the Congress building. At morning time you can count hundreds of cars returned and in the market whoever was raising the price at will was able to bring the price of bread from 20 Zaire whatever to den whichever the correct level at the gas station the same thing that means what Congolese can change and they are ready for a change but what we putting there is tools to bring them change nothing so far. I'm going to give my practical suggestion. If today diaspora in whatever France, United States from Congo decide to put in place a national service or institution against corruption and seek help from the USA international organization to support them work in secure place in Congo or abroad would you be able to help us because this is the forum or collogue for diaspora we are giving we are giving to you information about whatever is happening to the Congo what we giving here you can read it everywhere at the newspaper website it's there there is nothing no we bringing today but what can we bring for example I'm suggesting the creation of national institution against corruption if it is there is watching on everyone from the small person to the the government three weeks one month after that you will see that change will happen in the Congo but if it give appropriate protection to that organization and you will see a thing will happen if I have something else I will ask later if we brought together civil society for six countries from six countries and there was a creation of the observatory of the fight against corruption that institution had structures and everything and this is the civil society going when we were in the meeting earlier I said we have some lights of integrity back in the country that's welcome you will be surprised that the president of that institution is a Congolese and that the branch of that institution is working in the Congo so the point here for me is not that those institutions don't exist the point becomes in which environment are they working we're working here in an environment where I guess I keep saying it if you have weak governance and you try to do a surgical intervention against corruption you doomed to fail it's a systemic how can I say there's a systemic relationship between all the things that go on within a society and unless we take it that way unless we think that the creation of just an institution is going to be the solution then we're not taking into account what the manager talked about that we're not taking into account the human capital that we have in the Congo and that's where according to me we should put our efforts Mr. Professor Kabamba Just a short comment and answer and they will ask a question about in Atlanta we talk about more than 2,000 people living there and most of them live on small jobs and they are all educated in Congo so it's not actually but now there's a means to go back to politics you can see it many more but in terms of recommendation I think not only for the Congo but for many other countries there's a problem of elite kind of consensus I'll give an example to talk about the controversial figure in Southern Africa Mugabe Mugabe in the 80s did a land reform which worked very well but it was done they conserved all other elite they put all their friends together within how to improve the land in the 18th Mugabe land reform was a success but the second reason because of this political interest that where all the elite went apart so what I would recommend in my mind is to have kind of a consensus of that sort of elite what do we want to do for the country and try to find this consensus and then go ahead I think it's possible it's one of the recommendations okay Mr. Amani? Amani yes there is one recommendation that came out of our group and that I was not on the line to come back to it because we have many people who have very good ideas who are interested in starting small businesses that's what we want to promote in Congo but sometimes they don't have access to information and we're thinking we're suggesting that the same way you organize this panel discussions that we can organize another symposium and invite key players in the financial market people who fund development and we can call upon people who want to do business and to come with their plans and have like a workshop and connect people with money okay Mr. Alula? okay I know that we're getting to the end this is maybe also the time for us just forgive me for those who don't recognize themselves for what I would say I'm really grateful for the organization of this day and this event on behalf of the Congolese Daespora because it was for the first time I think here in the U.S. giving this opportunity to bring Congolese together and share with those who love the Congo from their experience we spend a very very interesting time together and I think we're getting some out in a different view we in the Congolese Daespora some of us didn't knew each other so people came from New York and from Atlanta and from different areas of the region so just not to miss this opportunity to say thank you to the United States Institute of Peace for having this idea and also binding you for the future just think that we didn't waste our time today we work hard to get there and we want this be the first step and go further go further is to see action one or two action coming out of so many ideas that we may have managed today and this is what I want to say and the last thing is that sometimes every time that we're talking about the Congolese Daespora or the Intellectual Congolese I feel like we go always on making our accurate to ourselves we did a lot positive things that's why what you say this country didn't disappear so the Congolese Daespora helped a lot just to keep the country afloat not going further down just to keep it afloat and we need now that the International Community bring us back the Congo bring the Congo back to the Congolese people we will keep or restore the peace in the Lake Region with our brother of the eastern or the western side of North or South or part of our country we just need to send this message since we are in the Institute of Peace and the people that we are ready to deliver Congo is the supplier of the world I take raw material we need to behave like a supplier to create a direct link between the market and we as the supplier that we change the view and respond solve many of the problem that we face today and we try to solve this is my last word thank you thank you just a second Mr. and then I wanted just to go back to the agenda we have to link my mind from the world those who are acting in the exploitation of the illicit mind out of the Congo Wanda including all the out of the Congo that is essential to bring peace second to make sure that you want to identify where the the materials are coming from just build some revitalize or revive the mining plants or companies that existed in those areas so we can identify where the materials coming from these are physical issues because if we don't stop that as someone pointed out in the discussion the CNDP is still controlling some mining area which means this area with application of Wanda is still going the flow of businesses so we must stop that by making sure that administration here is Wanda and Uganda without any any doubt or and make sure that they are strengthening the private sector yes the private sector has to be created we are doing currently a study on financial intimidation in the Congo and you will have the result sometimes in December in my group I hope with the foundation for competency and equity and good governance in the Congo we have a foundation we are doing that and I can tell you things we know about the financial sector will amaze you we are doing things for the Congo not for self enrichment and this is what I would like the Congolese who are here if you love Congo do something for Congo don't do because you come from which provinces do it for the Congo so defend Congo with your heart your soul and your mind and that's how we can get Congo back when you talk about zero tolerance Mr we have tried to say that there have been some studies done in the Congo inquiries and things like that and I point out through a phrase here saying that the fish brought from the head not from the tail it's difficult to have good governance or to have a leader who is corrupt to lead the country think and that mentioned a story about the Ukraine that you will tell us a very interesting one it's really something very difficult to take into account people are not paid even the little salary they were supposed to get they are not paid so when you have five six children to send to school and your earning is about fifty dollars but you spend three four months without getting even one month of salary what do you expect from that person when he sees you coming well fed and coming and say I'm going to do business in Congo how will that person react dear you come to do business do business with me let me eat and then you go do business but you fed him his boss didn't eat his boss said so you ate and I didn't eat this is the situation I'm making a joke you have to understand that until we correct this thing when he was to do power he was given by the U.S. money to control the army that money really put the military behind on it we are not asking you to excuse me don't take my photo we are not asking you as some people will say here interfere but for the human cause that we are living in the Congo I wish the U.S. would intervene because we don't have a functioning service service service service are not paid if today you take money like the USA idea to give money for the magistrate and all these people to pay to reinforce the judicial system it's a good thing that you are just touching one aspect but it's not even done properly because in reaction the government bought them cars and you see who doesn't have a car and you give them a car you come with your problem and you say you buy gas for me it's a mess not solving the whole problem it's a holistic issue that we have so we have to look into all these aspects and say how do we want to get Congo back on track security and civil servants those are two issues we want that you need to help us to work on because we are going to the election in 2011 and I can assure you this election I'm going to be a major because if we don't prepare them correctly all this we are doing here is going to be again in the trash so what are we asking for we are asking for you to sit down as you said I'm not going to be here next week I'm going to take this I'm telling you today I'm dead I went to school one time I went jogging and they went to my hotel room to find if I was there sorry I got your picture you know if I'm dead you see who I am I'll put you in the class he said this the blogger and I didn't get his name mentioned one in the east today Mr. Kabila his pot is wine in the west he's doubtful in Katanga he's shaking stand and come and campaign all done and have the same right as Kabila money security access to media who will have these three things in his hands to compete against Kabila it's not lack of candidates George but they have the days that's the question I can look at around here so many people who are competent that can be candidates for whatever position they seek to die for but will they have the freedom and the capacity to do it freely because last time we had the European Union with the military forcing us into the election next time what are we going to have China China's head China doesn't have stupas they come into business so if this change that we are discussing here these changes we are discussing here have to be implemented we must do the basic things the basic things will be the whole fair and the transparent level same level of confidence same level playing level for the candidates who will participate who want to compete for this election this way we can get ahead we can get the change and get the same boy and I think that's a good place to end I want to we have one more person Mandamin Gonda I'm sorry Michael Gonda it's a long name and you will have the last word the last recommendation at least that's very interesting I want to just thank everybody I'm moving DC and I've been living in Miami, Florida for years I see that we are all comedies and we are very concerned about our country no matter how long we go we are still looking back in Congo and we want to see how we can improve and the one thing I noticed coming here, my husband and I and my kids coming from Florida in Miami especially were Cuban people from South America really being in frame of Florida no matter what you say if you don't speak Spanish over there nothing and I think the one thing we are asking is I see so many Congolese so how many Congolese are here and who organizes what who does what and nobody can give us an answer and I was looking and I'm like okay we want people in Congo to change because we don't like this this is corruption but here I don't see a structure that people in Congo can look up to and say oh yeah you see what they are doing over there I think they can offer something but I come here and I see people are very divided we see one another once in a while and then I don't see any connection I was asking beige does anybody know any lawyer I think when you live in America a friend of mine used to say you need to know three people you need to know a lawyer you need to know a doctor you need to know a mechanic and basically that's true now we come here in Miami I can tell you can see this doctor you can see this lawyer you can see this mechanic we enjoy having that networking that I don't see in the DS4 it's not a critic here is one unit and to be able to get that unit here to the government here and then we can maybe have more impact towards what's going on in Cuba because it's 10 people come to the same person for the same subject after 1, 2, 3, ok why do we have 10 people for the same problem why don't we have one person to represent the problem that we have because we are united that person is representing all of us and speaking about the problem and this is what we suggest but if we go that I see it it's a little bit difficult because it doesn't seem organized that's what I think so I think people need to work on that part of organizing the community and that's it who has what degree I have no idea I see a lot of people I don't even know what they do we talk 5 minutes and it's gone so I think that's something we should look into here first before we even go across ok well thank you and we we really need to wrap it up so I thank you all for these recommendations I'm going to turn it over to Raymond or Bill Ambassador Taylor it's been great for you to be able to come listen to the three things that they discussed and to get to I don't say no but to get familiar with the people who have made the interventions and the discussions and the suggestions that have come both in the meetings this morning and this afternoon Raymond has done an amazing job of summarizing this so let me just go through some of the things that he has seen and I've added a couple things here as well based on my observations and the first is that the DRC Diaspora individuals represented here in communities have voluntarily participated in this event you've come together on your own it's been very productive special thanks to the live participants from three continents and special thanks to our people who have funneled these live participants into it from the United States from Europe and from Asia we you have discussed strategic issues related to state building in the DRC a very important component that's come through in all certainly in all three committees all three working groups also an individual committee the importance of state building and of course mining private sector interruption were the three congratulate the participants for their thoughtful and constructive interventions I also want to congratulate our three kind of rapporteurs here I'm always as I was going from group to group I was listening to and I was thinking Mike Golly if I had to summarize what was going on I would never do it but they have distilled from a rich mix of ideas and proposals into a very coherent set of summary points so I think you all have done a super job and volunteer to do this I need to give credit to two for my group I'm sorry what's your name? Jill and then exactly as you say others have contributed to your summary so that was very good on the mining there are interesting issues that come out here first of all very clearly external influences must be controlled and we heard this loud and clear all the legal forces and their proxies must be removed and I heard a couple times about the possibility of a US government role in that demand that you have said mining companies should create more employment and transfer skills technology skills capacity building from the expat into the national the international community must be more forceful in sanctioning illegal business transactions and again there's a possibility for a US government role which we ought to we ought to consider I'll come back to that the private sector discussion policies should target the different types of the private sector entities and you all went through in some very well thought out way the formal, the informal the illegal and the peristagal components of this and that was a useful way of organizing what kind of things what kind of recommendations taxation and registration policies must be improved transparency should also be enhanced infrastructure and services must be upgraded for the private sector they must be accessible and affordable practical workshops should be held with donor agencies and corporations to push those ideas on the corruption, a very interesting one and I did mention to a couple people at lunch whenever I as an American talk about corruption anywhere else other than the United States and I've been in Ukraine for three years and so I've had an opportunity to talk about corruption in Ukraine because it has a big problem with corruption but whenever I talk about this I practice it with the observation that first of all all countries in the world have this problem this is not a problem unique to any country in the world it is common throughout the world it's not a national characteristic it is a human characteristic I think this is the problem institutions will enable it more than others but whenever I talk about this I know that you can pick up any newspaper local newspaper national newspaper in the United States any day of the week and you will find stories in there about corrupt mayors and governors and congressmen and you will find stories about how they're taken to trial and convicted and put in jail and when I talk to my Ukrainian colleagues about this, my Ukrainian friends and I point out that we have a senator from Alaska who is convicted of bribery and we have a governor of Illinois who either has been or will be convicted of selling Senator Obama's seat and I point out to my Ukrainian friends that the difference between Ukraine and Ukraine is it is not that we have difference in corruption we both countries have problems with our politicians but the difference is we track them down and we take them to trial and we put them in jail and this doesn't really relate to this meeting but this is an interesting point that I finish up with my Ukrainian colleagues and I tell them who is in jail there is a prime minister and he's in jail in California not in jail in Ukraine we found him guilty and we they need to do that that's really important if he's going to crack down on corruption and back to our groups here corruption must be denounced inside and outside the DOC of course, dispassionately implement transparency and accountability measures nepotism must be addressed particularly with reference to credit allocation I would also say this was raised in the corruption group I wasn't there for but one of the big things the way to fight corruption is an aggressive independent media if you can shine light on corrupt practices and not get killed then you are taking a big step toward wiping this out there's a general point I thought across all three of your working groups and that is the importance of governance improving the governance to strengthen the good governance of the state and competent good government for the people of Congo and fair and transparent elections are certainly a part of that what role for the diaspora now I'm very glad that you raised this question you can provide more active and vocal feedback on the issues collaborate on investments that you talked about collective investments for investing in the DRC provide intellectual capital for policy development and contribute to monitoring and evaluation of these be available to provide technical assistance when asked or required lobbying lawmakers in both the United States and Europe serve as intermediaries between business communities in the DRC and outside investors transfer skills build on existing structures and initiatives think big make strategic investments and then be part of the solution be part of the solution not part of the problem but the important part that you have here next steps and Raymond will write this down even as you were finishing up we will do a report of this discussion here today I say we Raymond and T we'll do a report on this dialogue and we'll distribute this widely and strategically to the key players including players in this room there could be follow-up meetings so there's not just one shot we can have subsequent discussions but they must be demand driven that is we want to respond to your request your suggestion for the follow-up meeting as I mentioned at the outset we will brief senior U.S. and DRC officials on the outcome of the discussion based on this report which you all will have seen so the Astra can be an effective network and this is I think a great idea and I hope there have been some beginnings of that network here today and we would be glad to help but again I want to thank you all very much for your work and thanks to our folks on the blogs and the people who put together the lunch and I will turn it back over to Raymond who is also like to echo Ambassador Taylor's thanks to you all for participating in this the only thing I would add is that this is the start of a discussion I hope it's on the end of the discussion we've only touched the surface of a lot of the issues we discussed and I believe that if we're going to be as a body and as individuals more useful to ongoing processes more creative and more supportive in the development of DRC and we're going to have to work together a lot more we're more than happy to provide a forum like this to help connect you with the institutions and agencies that you have outlined that might be useful in supporting your efforts and just having bring some impressions like this I think it will be good so you know how to reach us there's just two last things we have the signing sheets and the contact details if you don't wish for us to have the contact details or know your institutional institution that's okay but for people who would like to stay in touch and know what we're planning and know how this work is progressing please make sure you see Michelle and make sure she has your contact details so you're all your business started and last but not least for a few people who are watching by live video screen and thank you very much for all of the great work you've done just this morning I thank a lot of people and once more to thank all our collaborators Darina has been a backbone of this of this enterprise and we're going to continue I hope you can have a videographer who's behind the camera and thank you for coming in and thanks to our 6th restaurant for providing I just want to thank you all for taking time out of your day to come here we appreciate the feedback like Raymond said we hope it's not a one off but it should be something that the diaspora as a group once and we are more than happy to facilitate more of these sessions to discuss the many other issues affecting Congo and trying to think of the way forward so with that but Sasha you wanted to say something in terms of follow up there's now I would say as someone who works a lot with policy advocacy here in Washington there's a much greater growing interest in Congo now both in Congress and there's a lot of actions going on right now there is an active Senate bill on Congo it's called the Congo Conflict Minerals Act and it's a bipartisan bill and this is something that we talked about holding corporations to account this is something that's going to increase transparency in the supply chain for these conflict minerals there will be a house version of the next couple of weeks the Administration is trying to follow up on Secretary Clinton's visit to Congo and trying to take up greater action in that regard 60 minutes will be airing a story on the Conflict Gold trade coming from South and North Kewu and that's kind of come out in the next couple of weeks so there's a lot going on I hope that the next meeting we can see where those actions are being taken and our campaign is also going to be going forward in pressing the companies and the governments and particularly the U.S. government in taking constructive action on the Conflict Minerals Front and the war will help you manage the conflict so we look forward to working with any or all of you who are interested in working with us okay great and thanks again to our bloggers for helping us with all of this so please stay in touch thank you