 You're welcome back. It's still the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. And today, like we promised, we're going to be looking at the need to mandate fathers to provide child support. We know that in a lot of instances we have single mothers for whatever reason, whether it's due to divorce, whether it's due to any other thing, but they are saddled with the responsibility of raising children on their own without the support of the man. And like they say, it takes two to tango. We are here with Muta and Gozi Iguayokin, legal practitioner who will be talking about this. Good morning and welcome to the program. Good morning. Can I just call you in Gozi? No. No, no, no. I prefer Muta. Muta. So I was going with Ingozi for a long time, but I realized that Muta was fitting away and it's very unique. You're struggling with it, and I'm sure you won't forget it. No, I won't. I'm not struggling. Muta. Muta is fine. Muta is fine. Yes. Thank you. So you put out a petition out there for people to sign. Tell us the background that led you into doing this. Okay. First of all, good morning, everyone. Thank you for having me on this show. So I am a single mom, unintentionally. I was married for over eight years. And the marriage broke down, and I ended up being a single mom. I have three daughters between the ages of 10 and 5. They are watching. So, Michelle Balissa. Your holiday, yeah. Michelle Balissa, Sophia. So I'm experiencing this firsthand. So because when you talk about issues and it's something that you feel and experience firsthand, people can relate to it. It's different than you're just at the corner and you're saying, oh, go and help them pay. I know what it is. I am there. So this is the side, but I'm talking to a lot of people experiencing what I experienced. I find that this is like a very prevalent situation in Nigeria, in Africa as a whole, but in Nigeria. A lot of women married, separated. The ones that got pregnant outside, you find that the men just withdraw because the society enables them. Because immediately you give birth, the child automatically is the father. So that, in fact, I was told that the children will come and look for him because it is their right according to the society. So you find out that people don't really make an effort. And I don't think, I know there are mothers that abandon their children, but I don't think a lot of women will actually leave their children. So you find out that they carry the burden after they must have tried to see how they can get the man, shot of dragging their neck. I mean, you can't force someone, there's an extent you can go. So they don't have, the only choice they have is to just continue to push and hope that there is, and you hear things like, oh, anything he brings, just be grateful. You don't have to be grateful. This is the child's entitlement. No matter what happens between the parties, the children shouldn't suffer for it. They didn't actually be born. It is their right. The child's right act is there. The abatrimonious causes act is there. The violence against persons act is there, 2015. So there's a whole lot of laws. I'm just asking that these things should be criminalized. Let it be a crime. If you don't pay child support, you become a criminal. I mean, all these things are deducted from source because from the laws we have in Nigeria, you see that the onus is on the women to prove that this person is capable of providing. And the court may grant that most of the provisions you have in the NCA and the court and the proceedings in divorce, you see that the court may, then that what may. It depends on the discretion of the court, though they do, but the process is very long. And at the end of the day, even after divorce, the men don't pay anything and they get away with it. Tell us, what's the picture across the country? On this situation? On this issue of child abandonment? I think every family in Nigeria, 95 or 98 percent of every family in Nigeria knows someone, they know someone that is experiencing this. It is a conqueror's womb that has eaten deep into the society. A lot of women deal with this. We heard on Yekonwenou the last time. I didn't know she was a single mom as well known as educated and everything. She had to raise her kids by herself. There are a lot of women that, I mean, when I talk of women, I mean women that. So this thing is not because you don't have the knowledge or education. Even it, I'm a lawyer. Across the country, are there states where it's a criminal offense or it's still just? So I think in the North, they've done better. So I think in the northern part of the country, a lot of their laws has made this mandatory for men to provide. I think this vlamic law, as long as you have a wife and a child, whether you are mandated to provide, even for girls until they are married. So the northern part of the Nigeria, they've done, there's a recent provision in the penal code that even when you impregnant a girl, you must take responsibility for that child. We don't have that yet in this way. So what our, the part of the North has gone over and beyond taking these things more seriously. So there are provisions, but enforcement is also a problem. I don't know. Do you think this petition is enough? Knowing that in some states, even to bring the child rights law to domesticate, that's the word they use, has not been done till now. How, what level of success do you think you can achieve with this petition that you put out there? I know legal states have domesticated their laws. So legal state, of course, we all know is usually ahead of all the states in implementing all these things. And because legal state has done that, and then there is also the Violence Against Persons Act, which is very detailed against verbal abuse, psychological abuse, financial abuse, spousal battery, and all of those things. But guess what? You can only implement that in federal, in the courts, Abuja. So how many people will go to Abuja together? That would have been a very easy way for this thing because it's actually a crime. I think three years imprisonment with some at the 500,000 or both. But it's only in Abuja. Abuja has the cost of jurisdiction over this matter. So as it is now, legal state has provisions, but we still have a law to do. Interesting. But are you also factoring in your petition when it gets to the implementation stage or the policy stage? Are you also factoring in, like you mentioned earlier, that some women also abandon their children? Are you making it to be comprehensive, or you're just zeroing in on women? So my petition is for women. The men can go. If someone else wants to do it for men, please be my guest. But for now it is for women because women have like 90 percent, they bear the brunt. There are just a few men that handle this, but a lot of women, this is what they deal with. So for now I'm focusing on the women. And change.org is a platform. The petition has been signed by over close to 4,000 people. And when people women, even men sign it, you see comments they put out there. Oh, I experienced it. Oh, I am in this situation. Oh, I wish something can be done. Oh, how many people actually have. So you see that the men, when it comes to going to court, as you mean you are in court, in fact, let me just not, let me just do like a summary. In Nigeria, there are three types of marriages. It can be Islamic or customary, Islamic or statutory. So it depends on the angle you are coming from. That will determine the kind of maintenance you get. So when it comes to this, as you mean now there is a statutory marriage and you go to court. Before you even ask for maintenance, there has to be like a proceeding for a divorce or judicial separation or conjugal rise or whatever it is that you are asking the court. And then you find out that after this process, though you can bring an application for interim maintenance depending on the determination of the case. But sometimes it's granted, sometimes they will say, let's just go on with the matter until it's done. In my case, that's what happened or what is happening. So I haven't been granted any sort of interim maintenance pending the determination of the marriage. So for three years I am still on this journey. Then you find out also that even after the divorce and they actually grant you this maintenance order, the man may most likely not pay anything for you to still get him to pay. You need to go back to court to get an order that will not be implemented and filed and you are managing to feed two, three, five children. Where do you have the money? So if you find out that a lot of women just say, oh God, let me just carry my cross. The Lord is my strength. God, please provide help us for me every day. How many signatures are you looking for? It depends. Change.org is a huge platform. You can get as much as $70,000, $80,000, $5,000. At the point where you are does not guarantee the answer that you get. If my signature is addressed to the changemaker, which we're still working on. If before I get $10,000 or $8,000 or whatever signature there is a change, it happens, it happens. So but the signatures creates awareness that okay, this is a huge deal. People are signing it. The government will be drawn to it. Like it is eating into the society. What can be done? Maybe at some point they will be forced to okay, let's look at this situation and see what comes out of it. So change.org is a huge platform for things like this. So if anyone wants to sign your petition, they should just go to where? To change.org, there's a link. There's a link that takes you directly to the petition. So when you go there, you just click on it and sign. You can donate. You can choose not to. You can skip. But as long as you're signing, you're saying, look, I'm with you on this one. This is something I feel should be done. So this day, see that people don't carry placards. There is a security. There is, well, the cost of carrying people. I may want to raise money to come and transport people and come and block even the risk of health issues and accidents and all of that. So what this thing does now is that it gives you a virtual platform for you to sign. It's just the same thing has been on the road as seen and part of you. When you say donate, what do you mean? So you can donate to the cost because the change.org people, they have, I'm here, costier of change.org. So I'm sure there's, you understand, they give us the platform. They do emails. They create awareness. They give you platform meetings to meet with people that need to. They push the petition and this thing costs money. So but it's optional if people are prone to donate fine. If you don't want to use key. Okay. So change.org is different from Ngozi. Ngozi is just coming here on the platform of change.org. Exactly. Mota. Exactly. I'm coming on the platform of change.org. Okay. Okay. I'm away from that as we're talking about the government or whoever matters fighting this cost for us all of us because we are all involved. It's a society. If kids are raised the wrong way and they are deprived of a lot of things because their fathers were not there. It's a society that suffers it. But I'm interested in you as a person. How did you manage to stay afloat even when help was not coming? Do you really want to go there? Because a lot of women will be wondering, you know, I'm losing it. Some will go into depression. But here you are. You're smiling at least. At least for today. So how did you manage to stay afloat because people need words of encouragement that can make them stronger. So it's a lot. Like so I don't think there's any woman that goes into a marriage that wants to come out. It is not our dream. If every woman I think I'm just generalizing but I think to a very large extent most women strive and decide to tell you you keep your marriage. You pray. You fast. If a woman works out of her marriage, I'm talking about generally that woman has put in her best. So if she takes that work, I didn't even take the work. I was served with divorce proceedings and I just had to say, okay, you know what? I think I've done my part. Let's just go our ways. Just do what you're supposed to do. I mean, it's not cast dire or hard. But you find out that a lot of men just, okay, so you said you want to go. You're not coming to beg me. You think you have grown. I will show you and they take away everything. And the woman goes away with nothing. Even if you have invested 10 years, 20 years into the marriage. You see here before that 30 years and I'm left with nothing, especially in Africa and Nigeria as a whole. So it is hard. I didn't go into coma, but it happened. And I'm stuck as there are three children we're looking at ourselves. How are we going to do? And this was in the middle of COVID. I didn't know what to do. I didn't even know where to start from. I had no idea. I was a walking and you see that you're dealing with that you're dealing with children that are looking at you for a solution. You have to be like emotional support for the children, emotional support for yourself, emotional support to even make money to emotional support, not even break down. So if you have support by the side like family and all of that, great. So I tell women ask for help. If your family is with you, great. But if I had a lot of families in Nigeria, we also not want their children to be out. Reason being why we see a lot of the kill they did not kill, this one spouse kill, wife kill. I mean, I'm not saying women even kill more. And I feel that is not an excuse, but I feel this because they are frustrated. There is no help. They don't, families don't open their door for women to come in. I also am in that situation. I was, I'm still there anyways. So I had to do all of this alone with three children at the point I had to leave my job because there was frustration coming from there. I resigned from there, got another one. It's a lot, but women, if you're hearing me, just know that first of all, you need to step back and reappraise your situation. If you are living up there, just bring yourself down. Write down your needs. I mean, needs, I don't, I don't say want and you don't need to impress anybody. This is reality. Another point you're just trying to survive is a dead, take it a day at a time. Don't, the, the need to worry and the urge to cry the, if you want to cry, cry. If you want to break down, break down. I did all of that. There are days I will cry for money to unite. I will still wake up in the morning, rub makeup and go and look forward to my children and I will eat. I do, I mean, I do a lot of things. A lot. I'm a lawyer. I work. I make clothes. I, I do interior decoration. If the business comes, as long as it's not illegal, I do it. Stigma. You fist it. Oh no, the stigma. I just told you. Yeah, that your parents, your family have. So yeah, the stigma is just, a lot of my friends dropped by, like they just disappeared on me. I, I'm wanting to kill you. They won't happen. Where's everybody? So it's like, I don't want you to come and, even the men will tell their wives, please, oh, the ones that are still married, oh, even if their situation is worse, they want to die there. So avoid that single one. Just avoid that your single and that and that. Do you still bear your, your husband's name? For now, yes, because, because I noticed the dash to your name. Yes. Why is it because of the fear of stigma? No, no, no, no, no. Look, before you even talk, I'll tell you I'm a single mom. So you better start working. Just be going. I don't want to deal. I can't deal. Where I work, I told, I said, oh, I am a single mom. And they're like, cool. I mean, what is the big deal? And you can do the work. Do you get? So that I had an open. So if you're lucky to have that fine, but the thing is that carry yourself well. You don't want anybody. So you see some single women, they're still wearing their, they go and buy rings and wear just because you want to, if I would tell you I have three kids, you can imagine somebody will look at you, not even one, not two, three. I beg, you know, so friends that's gone, family, some of them are in their space, cool. If you move, I even move out of the street for you. Just because your mental health, when they say mental health, mental health is real. I don't want you to come and add to it. Some people say it's pride. It is not pride. Move away from anything that will take away from you until you're in a better place. It will get better, ladies. I commend your strength and to get better. I commend your strength and wishing you the very best with this petition. The signatures you're looking for and the victory that you're seeking for everyone. As Nyamgo said, for all of us. All of us. Well, you should go to change.org. Like she said, you will get the petition there, sign the petition, mandate fathers to provide child support. That's how it is because if you go to change.org, there are so many petitions, but you're looking for this particular one that she put up. But right now, I'd also like to talk to Vanessa, Sophie, and who's a Michel. You are strong. You're women of the house. Help mommy to grow even better and stronger. Congratulations to you. You're growing. Even without daddy, you are still awesome. Thank you so much for this. I'm sure they will be like, well, you just end your day. It's part of what they write when they resume school. Yeah. Okay. So I would like to thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. We do hope that you get the success that you're looking for. It's not only yours, it's for all of us. And if you are a man, do better because every child needs a man in their life. If you cannot be there, at least my people say if the bird cannot go, it sends its feather. Send the feathers enough for the others that will go to fly. That's what we are enjoying you to do right now. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Yeah. Time just flew by. Okay. That's the much we can take on the show this morning. We do hope that you had a wonderful time watching us this morning on the show. But before we go, we'll leave you with this few words as the quote for the day. And the quote is that you don't have to control your thoughts. You just have to stop letting them control you. Those are the words of Dan Milman, until we meet again sometime tomorrow. My name is Nyamu. I am Maureen. Have a great day.