 Good evening everyone. Thank you for coming out tonight. I know you're all hearty Vermaters I assume so no worries about coming out on that relatively cold November night in the dark. You can't hear me? My name is Chip Confesta. I'm the co-chair along with Laura Sabilia of the Rural Economic Development Working Group. We're the ones hosting this hearing tonight. I'm glad to see all of you here. I'm just gonna say that if we have more people than chairs just please help yourself to the chairs there in the back there you can sit at any of the tables or just pull the chairs down. We're gonna get started here pretty quickly. I just wanted to make a couple of thank yous. One to Mitzi Johnson who wasn't able to come tonight the speaker of house but she has been very supportive in for our group and allowing us to do these hearings and really just being genuinely supportive of rural economic issues in general and helping us move forward with some of the legislation that we've proposed over the past year. So thanks to her and thanks to you all for coming out. We've tried to figure out what a good time of year to do this would be and I know there's always challenges for everybody with busy schedules but I really appreciate the fact that you all made time to come talk to us. So if you haven't been one of these hearings before you're gonna come we'll call your name and also say who's next in line. Come up and sit at the table we have a microphone up here for you to use and we have four minute time limit for now. Peter's gonna give you a sign when it's time when your four minutes is up and if you're unable to get all of what you wanted to say done in that four minutes we would encourage you to email us your testimony actually we'd encourage you to email us your testimony if you have it in that form anyway. The place to email it is to Charlie Kimball and so like everyone else everyone else's legeemailetsckimballatmledge.state.btus you can find that on the legislative webpage if you don't remember it. So again please email us anything you want us to be looking at and we'll share it among the entire group and as we said in our announcement this is really what this hearing is one of the things that's going to really guide our work in the legislature around these economic development issues for this upcoming session so please send us all of your thoughts. In a minute I'm going to ask folks around the table to introduce themselves we actually have a really significant number of people in the rural economic development working group as we call ourselves there's close to 30 of us not everybody was able to make it tonight but I'll have the people that up here introduce themselves. Alright so with that I think we'll get started so just just to remind you when I call you name please come up use the microphone and I'll also let you know who's following that person. So introduce yourself and we'll work our way around the table. Okay I'm Scott Campbell and I'm representative from St. Johnsbury. Peter Conlon from Cornwall and I'm on the House Education Committee. Hi I'm Sarah Coffey I'm from Guilford and I sit on House Corrections and Institutions. As I said Chip Conquest I'm actually from Wells River Vermont represent Newbury Groton and Topson and I'm on the Appropriations Committee. Laura Sabilia from Dover and I'm on the Energy and Technology Committee. Kelly Payala from London Dairy I represent London Dairy West and Jamaica Stratton and Winhall and I sit on the Human Services Committee. Randall Zodd I represent Barnard, Pomfret, Gweeching, West Hartford and I'm on the House General. I'm Lucy Rogers from Waterville I also represent Cambridge and I'm on House Health Care. May I have another member. Hi I'm Emily Sanheiser from Brattleboro and I'm on the Commerce and Economic Development Committee. And I think Sandy Haas is somewhere in oh right there in Farming. Sandy Haas from Rochester also representing Bethus Dockridge in Peacefield and I serve on Human Services. That's the only member I need audience. And would the Lieutenant Governor like to introduce himself? I'm David Zuckerman, Lieutenant Governor. I have a forum and a passion about our world economy so I was curious to hear your thoughts. And thank you for holding in here. And I think representative from Sanders office is also here. Emily Adolphus. Yes, I think. Holly. So we have Alan Robertson up first and Captain Water. Dangerous first person. My name is Alan Robertson. I'm a Woodland owner in Sheffield, Vermont. I'm Secretary Vermont Woodlands Association and also somewhat responsible for helping with policy and BWA our organization. You should all have my testimony already was emailed to Mr. Kimball several days ago. So to paraphrase you're going to read when you read the testimony that we feel there are a lot of new ideas and technologies that are available to improve the wood products industry and forestry in Vermont. We have reservations about whether any of that would ever happen because of Act 250. We feel strongly that Act 250 has been very, very good to Vermont in making keeping its rural and forestry environment. But unfortunately, the last few years, some of the very things that have been good for Act 250 and keeping development or control have also stymied development of the forest products industry. One of the things you'll see in the package is a handout from the Ecclesaw mill in Germany. It represents a very, very small micro plant that produces power and also uses waste heat to eat the local community. That's typical of the kind of things that you'll see in our submission that included cross-limit to timber, biochar, increasing use of biofuels and combined heat and power facilities. But again, there have been numerous attempts to fix Act 250 over the past few years. And yet it's never happened. And I say fixed because we don't want to disturb what works. What we want to see is the same respect for the forest products industry as we see for agriculture. Right now, if you farmer builds a barn, he doesn't have to go through Act 250. But if a sawmill needs to expand or if a new sawmill wants to come into existence, sometimes the hurdles are just so overwhelming that it just doesn't get done. Same thing with energy facilities. So there are things that need to happen in Act 250 to make it better for the forest products industry. And we were hoping that that would be something that your group would be looking at. Specifically, there are two bills right now in front of the legislature, S104 and H197. We'll probably hear about those later tonight. They do a lot to resolve issues that we've identified in our testimony. And with that, I'm done. So, Kathleen Monner and Brian Sheldon. Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to be here this evening. I'm Kathleen Monner, executive director of Vermont's Alliance Association in Vermont Tree Farm. I am also a member of the working lands board as a woodland owner and tree farmer, representing woodland owners. But Vermont Woodlands is a member of the working lands coalition. And I feel like they need to say that I'm speaking for the coalition side tonight. I'm for the board. And so I've been involved with the working lands initiative since 2012 when it first came to the House Ag Committee, which is now the House Ag and Forestry Committee. After a wonderful change of focus that included Forestry, I guess nobody here tonight is from House Ag and Forestry. But I know I have friends there. Representative Partridge, we have it. Thank you. So this was really working lands enterprise initiative was a cutting edge proposal when it came to the legislature that was designed to assist businesses that rely on the working landscape of farms and forests. I've actually been asked to present information about working lands enterprise initiative in other states and at a national conference. It really is a flagship program that for month developed that signals a willingness to invest in economic development across the working landscape. Each year, the coalition comes to the legislature with asks for additional funding. Because we know what a difference it makes to have that funding on the ground. The grant requests every year over well more capacity. And so we often need to turn down good proposals. Now we know that the working group supports the working lands initiative. And wouldn't it be amazing if it were funded at $3 million annually? And we didn't have to fight for that year after year. That would just make such a difference. It would foster so much innovation and diversification across businesses that would lead to market and supply chain impacts for farm and forest enterprises. Now this program has really been the best rural economic driver for working lands businesses throughout the state. And it can continue to drive the rural economy adequately funded. Now I and I know I'm often preaching to the choir, you know, we do that a lot in forestry. But it is, it's just important for me to underscore how critical these investments are for forestry and with products businesses. We are really counting on this continued investment in working lands businesses that keep our forests working. Just when you come up to testify, I'm fortunate to hold the mic sort of right in front of your mouth in order for everybody to be able to hear. So I'm Mike Greenville. I guess right up right up right up. Okay, we got you. So I'm resident Lincoln. And I'm the owner of maple landmark quick craft, which is a woodworking business in Middlebury. We craft small wood products. Business I started 40 years ago. We currently have we employ 39 people. And I appreciate the attention that is put to the to the working lands economy. I sat on the working lands enterprise board and its first two years of existence. Got to be one of the people who kind of help break in that process, which is all right, us. I wish I had some bright ideas, brilliant ideas for you. I have just a few points I'd like to make. First is about the working lands fund. I've always been bothered when I was on the board and sense that it seems that the there's a lot of overhead that goes into running that and which is it doesn't bother me about the overhead it bothers me that there's a lot of capacity. If there's more money to give it wouldn't cost any more to give it out. It'd be more efficient use of funds. So the extra money you put in can go right out. I didn't explain that very well. But I think you get it. Also, perhaps a more flexible schedule for awarding the funds. Business happens fast and quick and opportunities come and go and the annual schedule of things just seems that it makes it difficult. applications only taken once a year takes four to six months for the money to be awarded. There's a lot of time delay in that. For me as to my business, I'm just going to offer an anecdote to kind of call attention to concern is that I've always been proud of my business in dealing as local as possible. And I've always focused in having a short supply chain. And I've been fortunate that the lumber that I buy, I buy 125,000 board feet a year. So it's not a huge amount, but it's no small amount. Come from local mills. We offer health insurance. We have offered my health connect plans. And our premium increase for 2020 is $27,000, primarily because of cost shifts. I already spend more money on health insurance than I do on lumber. What am I to do when I don't have both $27,000 and a cost of living pay increase floating around in my back pocket? Last week, I took delivery of a trailer load of lumber from Maine, that low load of lumber saving $6,000. So instead of $18,000 worth of money to Vermont mills, I pay I sent $12,000 to me. That bothers me a great deal. But I have to maintain my business. So you know, I don't have a brilliant thing there. But the cost shift in the health insurance is just crazy. And it's unsustainable. It's unsustainable years ago. And it's just worse now. So that's that's primarily what I have to say. I would like to be sure that spend time on good legislation, not sound bite legislation, be sure that it's funded so things so there's proper guidance, compliance and enforcement. I'm involved in several bits of legislation that don't have that. And it makes it real difficult to the business. Hey, folks. So my name is Jordan Giaquania. I'm the new public policy manager for Vermont businesses for social responsibility. This is my seventh day on the job at the throat. I should be here and certainly appreciate the opportunity to testify. So as many of you know, VBSR is a business association with close to 750 members who have advocate for policy. Sorry. Thank you. Appreciate it. VBSR is a business association with close to 750 members who advocate for policies that support workers, communities in the environments are really advocating around a triple bottom line of people, planet and prosperity. We have members of every business size and every Vermont industry and second sector represented and also represent industries from every county in the state of Vermont. As of 2019, more than half of our members represent small businesses employing fewer than 50 full time employees. And about a third of our members represent businesses retaining less than 20 full time employees as well. Many of our rural businesses that VBSR represents are interested in climate action, not just as a moral imperative, but also as an economic development opportunity. Investments in weatherization, efficiency and electric vehicle infrastructure and divestment from import import fossil fuels would yield significant benefits for rural and low income for monitors as well as great payers writ large. From winter recreation and local food production to our drink driven and tourism economies, climate change represents a very significant threat to the Vermont brand way of life and rural economies. So with that, I want to thank you all for the opportunity to testify and for all the important work you're doing to support our rural economies and we'll encourage you moving forward to continue to engage in advancing key legislation like such as the Global Warming Solutions Act, but also turn your attention as well to the forthcoming transportation climate initiative to ensure that these rural communities are represented fairly and that we don't leave folks in the lurch as we move forward toward a greener, more climate friendly future for the state of Vermont. So again, thank you all. I look forward to working with you and wish everyone a good night. So I just want to say first of all, good evening everyone. Hi folks. It's great that we're all here. My name is Nick Richardson. I'm the president and CEO of the Vermont Land Trust. I've been in that role for about two years. It's a real pleasure to be here with the Rural Caucus this evening. You are our people and we are deeply connected to rural lands and working lands all across the state. We have relationships with 2000 parcels and about 1,800 landowners who are farmers, foresters, working these lands, storing them on behalf of all of us. And so it's a real pleasure to be here with you this evening. I do have a couple of points I want to emphasize in the legislative session to come, but because we hardly ever look back and say thank you for the work that's come before, I just want to commend the caucus on the work you did last year. You know, particularly the expansion of funding for the Working Lands Enterprise Board. Kathleen Wanner spoke, I think, really eloquently to that. It's an important pillar of how we support the working landscape and our rural communities in this state. And it is a very innovative program. And along with a very strong support for conservation, low income housing, you know, and other key programs that really invest in rural communities. It's a part of what makes Vermont work. And I think it's a really important program. The regulatory relief was also, I think, really critical and has been described around supporting common sense changes that will allow businesses to stay in business. Our working landscape really needs that right now. And I'll say that for the Vermont Land Trust, which has conserved 11% of the land in Vermont, 2,000 parcels, almost 700,000 acres over the last 42 years, we're recognizing that as important as that is, we need to be doing more in order to make this working landscape work and our communities work. And so we're asking the question, what does Vermont need from us today? And the answer to that is different than it was 30 years ago. And it's about getting the next generation of farmers onto land in Vermont. We've done a hundred farmland access projects over the last 10 years, working with, in fact, with many folks in the room, who are great farmers who are connecting with their communities, investing in our rural economies. We want to expand that work going forward over the next 10 years to get 200 to 300 new and beginning farmers onto land in Vermont. We're working with landowners to participate in forest carbon offset projects. And there's been a great working group that's been working throughout the course of this last summer and fall to deliver some recommendations around that for policy changes and also just one of the things we can do as a state to promote access to forest carbon and forest carbon offsets for more landowners. That's something that we would really support and appreciate going forward. This state needs more from us than from all of us, than it's ever, than it's ever needed. And these working landscapes that we've participated in that are such an important part of how we, how we feel about this state, the connections that we have here, the community that we have here, they're really under threat. And I think it's important for all of us to be thinking outside of the box about what it is that we can be doing to support our rural landscapes. The Vermont Land Trust is here. We're all in and we're going to be looking very creatively at new ways to participate. And we really appreciate the rural caucus, the work that you're doing. And I want to be a partner with you. Thank you so much. Hi, I'm Amanda Carlson from, I'm the town administrator for the Town of Coventry. So on behalf of the small municipal towns, I know there's a lot of effective tools that the, you've created for local government to support the businesses. But that information doesn't always reach the small towns. These towns are dealing with one person and the select board member that's been there for 30 years. And they don't always share that information around. So to make sure that they, they understand what's available, I'd love to see state supported or run regional workshops or meetings that would allow, you know, some of that one on one interaction for these towns to understand, to learn best practices for supporting local businesses and what they can do in their small communities. It's not always on a large scale. It's not always, you know, the big projects. Sometimes it's those small ones that need the most help. So for manufacturing, you know, are there case studies and, and, you know, what funding is available and the permit process and where to start so that the municipality can assist someone looking into that. And on outdoor recreation economy, understanding what's proven to work and what are the pitfalls or what policies we don't always need to recreate the wheel. It'd be nice to know kind of what is available. And also sometimes it's really hard to find out what funding is available because they're all available in different places. And you don't know when you have to just keep searching and hope somebody tells you which website or what agency to look at. It'd be nice to know where you can go for what funding and what's available to the small towns out there. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Jenna Kowalski. I'm the community and policy manager with the Vermont Council on Rural Development and also the president of the Vermont Community Development Association Board. And I live in Huntington. So thank you for providing this forum. We, VCRD is a facilitator of public process. We facilitate conversations at the community level. And then we kind of add up what we're hearing in communities across the state. And we also facilitate statewide discussions as well. On the community and economic development side, through our community visit program, we worked with about 70 different towns around the state on facilitated discussions to invite the whole town together and line up what's most important set priorities and then help to connect to resources. And we also provide coaching and leadership training and support of that work. And I thought just where we've worked in recent years, we've been in Montgomery, the four town region of Royalton, Sharon, Stratford and Tunbridge, Greensboro, Poltney, Westford and now we're working in Rockingham and Wiela. I thought it may be helpful just to share, you know, when we work to towns, we don't know what's best for them, but we listen and we learn, you know, what are the issues they're grappling with today. And I thought it would be helpful just to share a few things we're hearing in every town we're working with. We have communities lining up task courses around broadband and cell connection. Every town we're working with these days are setting those up traffic, streetscape walkability and bikeability as well as trails and outdoor recreation. Most towns are setting up around some kind of economic development committee or even looking for funding to build staffing into their town structure to support economic development and small businesses. And then certainly in recent years, every town is prioritizing water and sewer infrastructure. They come into the room thinking about housing and attracting young people and supporting businesses and realize that to do that, they need the infrastructure to support that vision they have for their community. So community leaders are working hard on these things all around the state. And but if you know, it's tough work and we see success where they're able to connect to resources and technical assistance that they need. And so there certainly have been some programs over the last couple of years that have supported many of those things I just listed and any support in those areas are critical. On the state policy side, we facilitate the climate economy action team, a group of large and small businesses and organizations unified around the belief that Vermont can be a leader in developing rural solutions to climate change. Their priorities this year will be around the transportation climate initiative around liberating efficiency utilities to kind of do their work where significant financial and greenhouse gas savings could be realized. So extending services from electric efficiency to thermal and transportation efficiencies. Seattle, the climate economy action team recognizes that this could help to increase affordability and savings, especially in the most rural areas where residents shoulder a lot of a much higher energy burden. And then finally, the Working Lands Initiative, you all heard a lot about the importance of the Working Lands Enterprise Fund. We facilitate and convene the Working Lands Coalition. And the Coalition certainly thanks you all for your leadership last year in authorizing the largest investment in that fund to date at over one and a half million. And the Coalition believes that they love for that to kind of become the base funding for this work in an ongoing way and in fact increase that over time with a goal of ultimately three million to meet the needs of businesses that are critical to protecting and promoting the future of Vermont's working landscape. And of course you've heard today all the ways that can support and grow the rural economy as well. So thanks so much for the time. Appreciate it. And I will submit this in writing as well. Thank you. I'm going to interrupt from just one second here because the last two speakers reminded me of things that I was going to say when we started and forgot. I've been doing this for 11 years and I still get tongue tied in front of my crowd of people. So this earlier this year our group took a bus tour of southern Vermont in order to do the same kind of thing of listening to her. That Sarah organized and it was a great thing. It was the first time that we've done it. And one of the things that we came out of it with is wow this is really great. We need to do this more. We need to keep doing getting out to other parts of the state because I know not everybody can make it to Montpelier on the night when we have the hearing. So we won't do another one this year but next year maybe we'll show up in your neck of the woods. The other thing I wanted to say was BCRD that Janet works for has been very helpful in helping us get the announcement out and I forgot to thank them for that when I started. So I really do want to extend our thanks to them. It's a pleasure. Hi, I'm Bruce Hennessy, Maple Wind Farm in Huntington, Richmond in Bolton, Vermont. Running that with my partner, Beth. We produce 100% grass that be pasture raised pork poultry and eggs from poultry of course and run a small USDA poultry processing plant that was funded in part by several working lands enterprise grants. We feel like we're the poster children for working lands. We've had a tremendous amount of support from that organization and from partners with that organization. Vermont Land Trust, Vermont Housing Conservation Board at RCS. I know works in there. So we've taken full advantage of those and somehow we've gotten the word maybe because we've been the squeaky whale asking for help for all these things. So I'm here in support of working lands in support of increasing that investment and also to ask the group to consider adding payment for ecosystem services into the mix. You know, when Beth and I first got started, we thought it would be enough that if we worked really hard we had a good resource space which we were reasonably intelligent and diligent that the business would just be successful. And the truth is, is that you can be all of those things and it still won't work out. You still need support. There's a tremendous amount of barriers between small agriculture and profitability. And even though working lands has been a big part in helping us solve those problems, we need to go further for us to stay in business. I was encouraged to hear that the gentleman at Wood Products was able to pay health insurance for his employees. We're not able to pay health insurance for our employees. And that's a major problem for them. And it doesn't feel good for us either. It's very hard to even pay, well, someone consider a living wage and others who consider not a living wage, at least in Chittenden County. So I want to tell a story at the end. The last thing that we received through working lands was a 50% grant to attend the Ranging for Profit. We like to call farming for profit, but officially it's called Ranging for Profit. A number of Vermont farms were able to attend last year. And that is an ongoing and continuing program for us. It's a seven-day farm business boot camp, essentially. That's the initial course. And then you have an opportunity to continue on in a board farmers from across the nation and continue to work under business and develop and realize many of the things that we need to do to be profitable and also build soils and add to the health and welfare of our community. And I just want to encourage a real focus on those really long-reaching and far-reaching programs for the working lands group to help farmers really go beyond just that hard work and core intelligence to true financial literacy and the ability to become viable farm operations. And again, a deep thanks to all of you for that opportunity. Good evening. I'm Christine McGowan from the Vermont Sustainable Jobs Fund and I coordinate the Vermont Forest Industry Network. The network was established in 2018 to help support and strengthen our state's forest and wood product sector and now includes more than 150 people and organizations involved in Vermont's forest and wood products industry. I'd like to start by thanking you for your support of the Working Lands Enterprise Initiative. The Vermont Forest Industry Network's creation was a direct result of research commissioned by the Working Lands Enterprise Board's Forestry Committee back in 2015 and in the years since has increased awareness about the value of our forest and wood products industry to Vermont and has embarked on several projects to expand or create new products for forest products, new markets for forest products and wood products. So, here are a few facts about our forests. Vermont's 76% forest and 80% of those forests are privately held by small family woodlot owners. Historic land use patterns have left us with a considerable challenge. After depleting most of our forests for more than 100 years ago, much of what has grown back has not been well tended. So, in a typical Vermont timber harvest, as much as three quarters of what is removed is considered low grade, and has a low value. Up until recently, that low grade wood had a healthy regional market and pulp used to make paper, but for a variety of reasons, one of which is probably within arm's length of everyone in this room. We've seen a sharp decline in pulp mills in our region and that's had a ripple effect on the entire supply chain. Two years ago, several Vermont loggers were stuck with wood they couldn't sell and expensive equipment they could no longer afford. Many of them parked their skitters and were forced to find other ways to make a living. Meanwhile, most of the saw mills that used to be economic drivers and so many of our rural towns have disappeared. Some couldn't compete with newer bigger mills across the border in Canada. Others have struggled with the constraints placed on them by state regulations. Those that remain are faced with the reality that their owners are not getting any younger, but their younger successors are few and far between. So, when a saw mill closes at stores, it's unlikely we will ever get that infrastructure back. Despite these challenges, Vermont's forest and wood products industry still represents a significant economic driver in our state, generating $1.4 billion in economic activity and providing 10,500 Vermont jobs. When you add forest-based recreation to the mix, you add another 10,000 jobs and $1.9 billion in economic activity. Take our wood heat sector. When verminers heat with wood, 78 cents of every dollar is retained in the local economy. Compare that to only 22 cents retained when we use fossil fuels like heating oil and propane. Some people worry that increasing the use of wood heat means we'll cut down too many trees, but the fact is we're harvesting less than half the net growth in our forests. The reality is, Vermont is losing more than 2,000 acres of forest land per year to rural and suburban development, not forest products. Some worry that wood heat is bad for our climate. Yet a recent life-cycle analysis of pellets made and used in the Northern Forest region shows that from day one, using wood pellets for heat reduces greenhouse gas emissions by 54% compared to oil and 15,000.