 Greetings to everybody. Today, we have two of us presenting a little bit of our experience of Auroville, of mother and share of Bindo. This is Pierre. Pierre came to the ashram in 1967 and he met the mother. He was born in Paris where he grew up and he trained as an engineer and he came to the ashram as an engineer, right? And I am Anu. I've lived in Auroville for the last 40 years and we will be exchanging about our experiences together. So Pierre, you came in 1967 and you met the mother. Would you like to describe to us what that time was like, the ashram, and in general? Yeah. I'd like to share that. Actually, I came to the ashram almost by chance because I had no real aspiration for inner life. But I studied engineering and I had a very good job in Africa. But after some time, I found it very flat, not interesting. So with a friend, I decided we decided to go around the world to find something more interesting. We could not meet in France, so I went alone. I went to America, Mexico, Japan. And in Japan, this friend came back to meet me and he had gone by the road. And when he described his journey, he told me about Iran, Afghanistan, Nepal. But he said in Pondicherry, he had a problem with his car. He had to wait three weeks for a special part. So when he described me, he saw people in Pondicherry and he had the most negative description you can imagine. He told me in Pondicherry, I found some people completely like simpleton around an old woman and they want to change the world. And for some reason, I immediately wanted to come to see this. It was irresistible. So one week later, I learned from Tokyo to Cambodia, one week later I landed in Pondicherry. And I was lucky to, as soon as I arrived, I was introduced to Tanmayap, Padma and Goupi. They had their tea. It was five o'clock. So at once I could get a very good introduction to the yoga of Shrobindo and the mother. And I found it very interesting. Finally, Tanmayap put me on a rickshaw for a guest house and he gave me the book of Supreme, The Adventure of Consciousness. And I read the whole book in one night. I was crying. I was so moved because it was what I was looking for without even knowing. And almost immediately my life changed. It was decided that a new life was starting. I met Sat Prem two days later. I met the mother one week later and it was decided. I was going to be a disciple. I will do this yoga of transformation. But as I was going around the world, I wanted to finish the round from Tokyo to India because also I had decided to see the Universal Exhibition in Montreal in 1967. So I went there. And I was almost angry at the mother because it was one of the most beautiful exhibitions of architecture. But I realized, I was thinking, what is the use of creating such beautiful buildings for our poor humanity? We need to change. So I came back to Paris and I was also lucky to be there in 1968 to be part of this upheaval. And same thing, I could see that what was missing was an inner dimension. So I decided to come. So I came back just after in June 1968. I came and I told the mother, I come here because I believe the true revolution is happening here. That's how I came. And I never left. Would you describe a little bit that time in Pondicherry in the ashram? The life a little bit of that, the atmosphere of the time? It's funny, I don't know whether it is past or the future because it was so pure, so beautiful, so open, so free. And so when I look back where we are now, I say, my God, it's a regression. So I had a different job. I told the mother I could help designing new furniture or I could open, start a school of selling or I could teach art. And I did all that. I started the furniture, but I could not have the experience to work with this type of wood. It's very hard. And finally I ended up teaching art in the ashram school. What is interesting at one point, I felt that I should give everything to the mother. My money and everything I brought including paint and everything. And the mother accepted my donation, but she said, you can't keep the painting. So that was for me the paint. So it was for me a sign that maybe one day I will use my paints. But the souvenir I have the most living souvenir is from the school, the ashram school. Because we don't realize that it was so far ahead of the normal education everywhere. Because you see in one school you had three schools. You had the academic school from 8 to 4 o'clock. From 4 to 7 you had the sports. And in the evening you could be free to learn dance, singing, language, whatever. And for me it was a revelation because when I was in France I was... Usually I was the youngest of the class by two or three years. And when you are 14 it's difficult to compete in sports with people of 17. So I felt always a complex with my body. But what I found very beautiful in the ashram, those three schools were separated. The group of people learning academic were together. But the disparity of age is not common because other groups were made after 4 o'clock. So you were with people of your strength so you could enjoy your competition. And for me that was a revelation that there was a new discovery of the body. So I believe even now we don't have this separation in schools between the academic and the sports. It's two things different you should learn. So that's my best memory. And also going to the school it was so... There was such a joy to be with the students and they are the group. Even now when we meet after 50 years they say, Ah Pierre they have the best memory of their life you see. So I don't know if it is past or future. So that's a good thing. Do you want to pass your... Yes, now I have spoken a lot. Could you explain a little the same thing? What has brought you to Oroby? Again like you I had no knowledge of Shirobindo or the mother. And I was in college and I happened to one night I woke up with a dream of... In this dream I was walking with a bunch of students and along with us was... I could see this person only from the back. He was in adhoti, he had long hair, he was bare chested. And he was talking about an experiment in the mind. And I found it very interesting. So I fell instead. And eventually he turned to me and he called me and I had this image of Shirobindo. Interesting. In that he literally opened my head out and he plunged his hands through my head. And as though the whole being was cleansed. The experience of waking up was an experience of an extreme freshness which I had never felt in my life. And it stayed with me for many days. And it made me curious who was this long-haired man. You know he was a guru, dhoti and all that. So I thought it was Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. And I started reading about transcendental meditation. But you know after a few days I stopped. And I just happened by chance, this was in Calcutta, to have to look for a book. And I was sent to this address. And I walked into this building without really looking around. And I looked around for the book and the book wasn't there. And the lady at the reception, she said, are you sure you did not find something? So I felt a little bit strange. I went back into the library and I just pulled out a book at random and I left. And at night when I opened that book I started reading it. And well that was the total turning point. It was the mother, the first chapter, the mother by Sri Aurobindo. And it was like reading the first two paragraphs and it was like coming home. Finally, you know, recognizing home. So then for the next I think two years I read a lot. And finally I actually wanted to come to the ashram. But I stayed in the ashram for about two days and I came to Auroville. And I stayed here for a couple of months in 79 and I went back. Before going back I went to Sri Aurobindo's room. And that was a major decisive step because, you know, I went into the room as one person. You come out of the room and everything has changed. So this whole thing of that I was going home had reversed. That I had to come back home. You know, that whole thing had reversed. So that took me another year and a half to come back. And one of the things again at that time was, you know, like in those days what was it? You know, you worked in Matri Mandir, Matri Mandir Construction. You worked the whole night in concretings. And generally there was this space of an incredible light and incredible joy. I mean, that's all I remember of that experience of being in Auroville. It was this intense joy. And although it was a difficult moment in Auroville at that point again. And there was not much to eat and all that, but it didn't matter. It was that joy that was something which was nurturing. By which you felt completely taken care of, completely nurtured, fed. We were not hungry, nothing. But there was this amazing joy, amazing automatic gratitude for that. So, yeah. So let me come back to you. You came to Auroville. I mean, you spent about nine years in the ashram. Then you came to Auroville. What made you come and what was Auroville of that time? At that time there was not such a separation between the ashram and Auroville. Even being in the ashram, I used to come to visit Auroville. I used to work in the workshop of aspiration because I had a friend here. But ultimately I was quite happy in the ashram. Until one day I was reading Savitri on my terrace. And suddenly I heard something that I had to go to aspiration. It came like that. So I did not even question. The next week I was in aspiration. And from there, there started a new life, totally different from the ashram, which was quite pure and it was quite wide. And I enjoy myself also tremendously because the ashram meant a lot of restrain. So there it was full freedom. But for some, when I came in 67, when I came back in 68, I did not know whether I would be in the ashram or in Auroville. But it was a prime who told me, no, for you, I think the ashram is better. And they was right because I might have been a little too free, too wide. So the ashram for me was a good lesson of being a little focused on yoga. So what else? You were pretty active in those early years. You started one of the first organic farms. You were part of the co-op. It was a pretty, everybody was involved in at least three things in those days. When I came to aspiration, we had hardly anything to eat. So I said, my God, but what is the prime? We have land. Why don't we start a farm? We should grow our own food. So we are lucky to get a donation by Aurovillean. We could start the farm of Jaima. And it was quite ambitious in the sense that I wanted to take advantage of all the discoveries in organic agriculture, aquaculture, and so on. And we are a group of friends who had come from the ashram. So it was very harmonious. But you see to be a farmer, you have to be in requires special quality. Many incredible perseverance and to be there every day. When you have cows, you cannot say, oh, today, no, I don't mean, you have to go and build the cows, everything. So no freedom at all. And we realized that we are quite, we had good intentions, but we are not born farmers. So after a few years, the project came more ordinary. That was that. After that, there was this big episode of the fight with the SS. And that was also quite a memory because we had absolutely nothing to eat. I could tell you, for example, what I ate on breakfast of 3rd March, 76 or 78. I can tell you so what I ate for dinner on the 10th of April. It was varagu, varagu, varagu, varagu. I'll just interrupt you there. Because when I came, I remember we used to work in the Matrimandir and then go down and have lunch at Selvakijan. And one day I came down. It was very hot. And I was walking along with another person and I said, it would be so nice to have pineapple. It's so hot. So we arrived in Selvakijan. Each one got three thin slices of pineapple. That's it. That was lunch. So to come back to the thing of Nantitik, suddenly at one point, we were born to jail. We were two groups. One is Vili Puram, one is Tindivanam. And as I tell you, we were eating nothing almost, no. And suddenly because we were in jail, there was kind of a pity. And suddenly there was money to help us. So we were behind bars and we had friends coming. What do you want for lunch? I think I will take chicken biryani. And you, Moton Panjami, so we ate. It was a huge feast. This dance in jail was just a feast. So people were sad. All those poor girls, guys are in jail. We want a mind of staying three months more. So we were there for ten days. So to show that sometimes in the European association, they were worried what happened to this guy. But it was not like that. There was a lot of humor and it was very light. So that was the thing. All right. Would you like to? Reading questions. Yes, since I know you, you have been doing a lot of things. You have been going almost at every activity of Orobyl. You are working in the boutique. Then you work in the school. Then you learn dance. Then you do choreography, choreography. Then you are in charge of portous. So you had a very, very diverse life. And now you are part of the working committee. And you are so busy that I see you two hours a day at the most. So I think that's ultimately a very rich life. Do you think people now could have such a rich life in the Orobyl of today? Such diverse activities and no constraints? I don't see why not. For me, the first, the real school I went through was working in Mathrimandir for the first five years almost. And it taught me everything. It taught me, you know, when I went and worked, when we say it took charge of portous, certain kind of organization, that whole knowledge or that awareness of the body, all those, the consciousness in the body. You know, those days when we were, we had no practice with all this stuff. But there we were hanging on the scaffolding, up in the sky. But that you could not do now? No, because it's not there. But there are people who are cleaning the discs, for example. It's a different kind of thing. But I believe we have restricted ourselves. The possibility is always there. Because Orobyl has been created in such a way that all aspects are there. It's available to everybody. It's just for us to how we deal with it. And I think it's really an integral concept. So you can move from one to the other, to the other, to the other. And nobody will really stop you. But every field is there for your experience to grow. And no, I don't think, I think it's always open. Anything else you want to ask? Do you think we were closer to the dream at that time than now? It was much more palpable. When you came into Orobyl now, at that time, you were really walking into a dream. You were really, you know, that space when I said, when you came in there was this sense of the light, the presence, all that was so palpable, so real. And that is what was nurturing you. So that dream was available for everybody. Now it has kind of, I get a sense, especially from the young people, the new people, that they have to kind of dig and find that. They're being told certain things about Orobyl, that there's a sustainable ecological project. But that is not what we came into. That is not how it began. That is not its main direction. It includes all that. You know, it doesn't exclude the part of sustainability and ecology and all that. And that we are going to be a green city. But the possibility then to do things hands-on has gone down. And I believe there's no reason for it to be like that. We can at any point change that decision of just being behind desks and being the bosses and everybody else doing the work. To come be present hands-on to build the city. I mean, it's such a marvelous adventure because it's not just about being spiritual. It's about being spiritual in life, spiritual in building, spiritual in work, in everything. And for you it has been like, your whole journey with art has been like that. So I had a few points which I was just thinking, is that, you know, for you art has, I mean, I saw the way it has really been your unending education. You really immersed yourself in that. That's been your way to get into the show window, the mother, the mind of the sales, all that. So it's really been that journey. Would you like to talk about that? Yes, you see, as a youth I was very interested in art. And when I came I didn't know whether I would be a writer, a poet or a painter or a sculpture. And as I had contact with Supreme, I started to write and it was encouraging me. But the main influence I had when I was young was painting. I used to go to all the galleries in Paris, to the Biennale, and that was fascinating. The way a painting could make you expand and you can dissolve almost in infinity. And, but when I came to the Acha, I felt, okay, this is my, I forget now, I just do what the mother wants me to do. But it happened that I had some experience. For example, one day there was a concert of Sarod. And I did not hear anything. I had my eyes closed and I saw colors, colors and colors, colors. So the next day I started to use coloring and I started to paint. And I never stopped. And there were other experiences. Another type of experience was I started to work as I tell you, I was in the Acha, but I work in a room making sculpture in the aspiration workshop. And one day I came back, I used to cut my aluminum piece and fold them in my room in Acha. And as I was starting that, suddenly I was stuck, I didn't know what to do. And I was living in a little room on top of the house, all the windows were open. And suddenly when I was meditating to get the next inspiration, and suddenly I heard a little noise, and the dove came and sat on my table just next to my sculpture. I couldn't be, it was a white dove. And I was paralyzed because I didn't want to touch it, I didn't want it to go. And after some time I knew what to do. So I was very careful not to do so. I took the sculpture and I started to fold it and I put it back and it did not move. So it was time to go to the dining room. So I left all the windows open. And when I came back, it was still there. So when I slept, I started at that one point, I said, okay, but now I want to sleep. So I left the light on for it and I slept. And every time I would close, open my eyes, he was looking at me, he was looking at me. And the next morning it was definitely as if he told me something. So I wrote what was it. And actually it was a message from the mother. Keep doing your heart in secret today. It is your participation of the new world. So since that, I never, I had the confidence because I could not get much encouragement from the surrounding. People consider I was a little crazy or something like that. So that was the thing. And the men, so these were experiences. I am doing that because there were experiences which came encouraging me on the way. And the major experience happened in France where I had to go to arrange for my father's death. What was he doing? And a friend of mine asked me if I could help him designing a nightclub. So imagine designing a nightclub at 12 years of yoga. It wasn't exactly the expected outcome. But as I accepted, because I had seen before in Paris an exhibition of giant crystals coming from Brazil. And it was incredible. You see those, those crystals, three meter high, five meter high. It was divine. And those, those takes a million, million of years to grow. You have now some of those crystals in Matrimonial Garden. But it's nothing compared to a whole exposition of that. So I told my friend, okay, I can, I can design the nightclub but only at one condition. Give me carte blanche, carte blanche to derive the crystal. And he was working with architects and they gave me carte blanche. I am nothing. I am, they said do. So I, and they said, but this guy comes from an airplane because I will work until 10 o'clock at night making models and things like that. And finally the nightclub was inaugurated. And it was a total catastrophe. Because I had, you see, the whole thing was done with mirror cut but they were not properly grounded. So the woman will tear all their dress from the table. So that's all the thing. So as a result, the architect did not want to pay me because he didn't get any money for their work. So it was a catastrophe. It was a catastrophe for me financially. So I stopped. I was with Fadou. I thought she had joined me. I sat in the corner of her room and I did not move for five hours. It was as if it was, I had my eyes open but I saw black. I saw only black. So it lasted for at least three or four hours. And after four hours, I started to see some structure and suddenly just an explosion of light, light and music and colors. So it was the first time I had a real, real inner experience. And after that, I told myself, oh, this is what I have to express. This is my duty. I have to express that experience of joy, of light, of freedom, of color. And that was in 1984. And now we are 2022. So it's almost 38 years, which I've been working nonstop on that. So that has been my activity. At that time, it was not very... You could really talk about light matter, because that was the first culmination. It was the first time also. I would say I decided to take, to do only that. At that time, it was not well accepted in Oroville that you do only art. You have to be useful. But I had no choice. I had to follow that. And I did many experiments. And in 1999, I made an exhibition. It was called Light Matter, which was a huge environment, which was occupying all the stages of Barativas, the low being, the thing. And it was an incredible experience for many people. It was a huge thing. That was repeated in the year 2000. It was called Light Station. It was in the Matrimondier garden. And after that, I had the feeling that I had managed to express that experience. But I did not have finished it. So I stopped working on art. I tried to be useful. But it did not work. I could not... And as soon as I started working on art, experiences came back, colors and things. So in a sense, this exhibition was huge. And it was more like almost architecture. But there was no way at that time in Roville to receive such a work. And that's also a problem. You see, to create, you need a responsive medium. And we don't have yet that collective reception. So that... I'll just interrupt you there. Because at one point, you did call Light Matter an architecture within architecture. And there is... That work about what you don't mention was your whole research with... the way the mother described the cellular experience. It actually came from that. So now... And then Roville has been called this universal town, where beauty, the mother, that was almost like a prime definition of the way life would be manifested, the sense of beauty. And where art was a very important part in this city of universal culture, we have a whole cultural zone. And even Shorvindo when he speaks of between art, literature and painting, that's the best training for the soul. So if that is the case, how do you see the city? How does art impact the city? How will that city be? Because right now, you know, you can do all your stuff. It has to stay inside your workshop. There's hardly any possibility of us creating this new life. So what would you say to that? Yeah, that comes back to the... the problem of the city. You see, art cannot flourish in a farmer's house. You need the milieu. And the city is the most beautiful receptacle for art. So it goes together, this quest for art and beauty and the building of a city, which is the main topic now in Roville. Also, what I forgot to say, this exhibition of Light Matter was inspired by the Book of Supreme, the Mind of the Cells, where these shows that... and the Monor said in her last experiences that they were occurring at the cellular level. And she said, if you want to be aware of the change of consciousness in the earth, you have to be conscious of your cell at your cellular level. And for me, suddenly, that was the motivation behind my research in art. It was not anymore art for art's sake or for beauty. It was how to find a tool to help us getting closer to the cellular consciousness. And at one point, the mother emphasized the need of the use of a mantra, to repeat a mantra. So I told myself, yeah, that could be one way. I have to find a way in painting to write and write and write a mantra. And hopefully, by repetition, I will get closer to this cellular consciousness. So this has been my uninterrupted research for the last 38 years. And I must say I had some experience, but I'm still very far from the real realization of the yoga of the cells. But it's coming. It's growing. And I had to go through a lot of research where I had, because I told you I had quite a knowledge of the art in the West. So I had to go through all that to redo a lot of past expression of Western art. Until now, where I come to something much almost a childlike, very simple, very... And it's closer to... It looks like tribal art, like Madhubani painting or art from the Aborigines of Australia. So it's like that. So it has this vibration, it's very fresh. So I think that's the direction which I found very interesting. Also, I have to say that it has been an incredible help in the yoga to have this tool. You have some work. You have an activity which sustains you. So it has been a big help for me to survive in those present controversies in the world where there is something like a stay which helped me to survive. So same thing for you. You see, I was moved because actually we met together because she was very moved by your sculpture I did and I was moved by your poem she wrote. So somehow, heart has been our link, you know? And she kept writing poetry and even now she is so busy and she comes out of a poem out of the blue which is very, very light and beautiful. So that's really one way... It's part of our connection, beauty and creativity. Do you want to ask some questions? Do you want to put a question to me? I don't know what to say. Yes, I don't know. I said everything. No, but you can ask me what you want. You'll have to edit a bit. So you have been... You had a question there, why don't you say the last one? Which one? Would you come back? This is one of the last questions. We don't know what to say. Do you like the present situation of Oroville? Will you join Oroville today? It's very veiled from the experience that we came into. I don't know what it is. I cannot speak for the new people. I'm sure they have their experience. But personally, you know, there's this line from the Savitri. From the Savitri when she says, once my heart chooses, it chooses not again. It's done. So once you choose, the question of even going away of yes or no doesn't even arise. It's like, it's done. It's my oxygen. Oroville is my oxygen. And it is very difficult now. But because it is difficult, it is important to be here now. I don't know how to say. Because this is, you know, my coming here, I think our coming here, it's not up to us. It's something which has brought us here. It's the decision of the soul. And that soul has to stay here. The soul has to grow as long as it is needed. It has a work to do. And if Oroville, as long as Oroville needs us, we have to be here. And the work has to be done. Because it is so extraordinary that whatever the present difficulties may be, whatever our parents, what we are facing, the sense of division and all that, but ultimately Oroville is not about division. It's about a unity, but it's not that hand-holding kind of unity that we mistake it for right now. And that is the unity, that experience of unity is given to us. I mean, when the Matri Mandir was created for that. But it's also there in the atmosphere. It's there in the light, in the air. And that can be touched. That experience can always be there. And I think it just grows heart to heart. And the more each of us comes in touch with that experience of unity, that unity will be built. It's not a political unity. It's not a community unity. This unity is something much bigger than all of us. It is the divine unity that Oroville is about. So, would I come now? It's true that when I look back into the experience of the way we came, the sense of miracle of coming here, the sense of adventure, that seems to be very... There are many stratas and people may not necessarily see that. And I see a lot of young people, new people who complain. They don't know where to go. This is very complicated. They don't come in touch directly with the experience, directly with that sense of what Oroville is all about. And yet some people do. So I think once there is that opening, that is available. Would I come here knowing the difficulties? See, even when I came then, there was this big thing going on. There was this big... What you spoke about, this phase of the difficulty, Oroville split with the society. And that was also very much in the news. And I remember when I wanted to come, my parents were very worried you were going to go there, what will happen, that kind of stuff. So on the face of it, yeah, even it was difficult then. And then we went through a period of growth and apparent, I would say, a certain stability and a period to grow. But I think we are again at a very critical point where Oroville literally has to take a leap towards the future. So we are all being tested and we will all have to move forward. Yes? Well, you know Oroville, this is very interesting. I had to work on a book on Oroville, for example. And I spent almost three and a half years researching it for years. And there was a lot of material and I couldn't put my finger because there was like a missing link. And I finally hit that missing link and that was a city, which we had apparently completely forgotten about. And that is what pulls everything together. You know, when she talked about building the cradle for the Superman, she really gave us this cradle. That cradle is given. We just have to get in there, build it and through the building of it, go through the changes we need to go through and build that unity of this new world that she envisioned for humanity. Yeah. Does that answer your question? Yeah. I can speak. Yeah. What else? I can speak. I can speak. Yeah, just one second. I'll pass it to you. Let me speak. One second. Yeah. See, one of the things I'll also pass it on to Pierre also. One of the things is definitely all aspects of the city. And right now we are going through this whole story with the crown. It's so interesting because the crown is the next most important material physical feature because it unites the whole city and it stops it from just spiraling out in a sprawl. So it's a very important element. Pierre, would you like to add something to that? No, that's a very beautiful question. Why do we like to manifest? So as an artist, I've been dreaming all these years about beautiful architecture, beautiful garden, beautiful painting. But the present situation shows us that that's not enough. What we need is a new consciousness. If the new consciousness is not there, all the more beautiful painting or beautiful sculpture won't help. So in a sense, this situation has been for me an incredible help to go deeper. And I can tell also an experience. I had the first meeting which was very violent, very chaotic, which I could not believe because I had never seen such violence in all these years. And at the same time, there was like a smile. I felt such a peace. And I felt that this old situation was just unreal. It was like a big bubble of unreality. And I remember reading in the modern agenda that when there was once in Pondicherry, there was a riot against the Ashram. And the mother was in her room. And she could see the whole thing. And she said the whole thing was unreal. So you have at the same time this unreality, which is very violent, which has consequences, and the reality. At one point in 1973, there is a line where he said he was eager for the real alone. So what is real? So we live in a lot of dreams and aspirations. It's time to... And the present situation is the best means to kick us, to go deeper. And funnily, since this crisis, I've never been so creative. I come with new paintings almost every two days. I don't know. So I don't understand. It's a mystery. So when you say what you would like to see manifest, actually we don't know. Let's be open for the future and aspire for the mother. And only she will tell us what to do. Because we project our ideas of beauty, our ideas of brotherhood. But all these are old. We have to be open to the... I remember one day I was asked by a Russian, which came long ago before Russia was free. And he said, what you would like to become? And I said, I would like to become a total idiot. To be free, to not have all these ideas, these formations. Because sometimes I realize how serious we are. How much we think we know the truth. How much we know the future. And this is... There is such ego, and especially in the world, we have such ego to think that we are superior and we know that. And this ego manifests at every level. When you have new people coming to Rome, they are new. What do they know about Rome? We don't even know if there are 40 years of yoga behind. You see, all these... So this crisis is a very good... It's a grace to awaken our complacence. It's time to... I wonder what did I do all these years? As if yoga starts now only, you see? There's one thing which was interesting. I went through this experience actually, let's say, the last five years. Four years, five years. I mean, you know, driving or cycling or walking around Auroville. And suddenly something would hit me very strong. And I don't know from where it would come. Is that I want to see the future. I want to see Auroville. It's enough. We have seen enough of this. It's there. We have lived it. It's been fantastic. But I really want to see the city. And now, you know, since the last two years or three years, I come across other people who have gone through that also. Okay, this was great. We have to see the beginnings of that. You know, we're kind of justifying a kind of stage score which is becoming more and more ordinary. And we have to take that next step. Even as a society, just even in our physical forms, everything of what is manifesting. And that's where I became more and more fascinated by the city. And at one point I was not well and there was a picture of the galaxy plan sitting there in front. And I kept looking at it. And I find it so extraordinary. So many things to discover there. And I just think, but why has it earned so much hatred? Why has it earned so much controversy? Whereas there's so much there which I think the most progressive, you know, urban planners or whatever in the world are actually pointing towards that. And as though we've been blind to it because there are a lot of things we are saying now which were already thought of in 1965-66. And then there was... What was very interesting is when they presented Oroville to UNESCO in 66, it was very sweet the way they would all go, and they said, our client said this, and our client is the mother. So the client has said it will be for 50,000 people, it will have these four zones, there will be a center, place for the consciousness. And they're talking already in 66 in terms of rainwater harvesting, solar energy, why it had to be for 50,000 people, what was the reason, why there should not be urban sprawl, why there should be no, you know, how to reduce polluting vehicles, how to make it a pedestrian city. So it was so fascinating, it was always, you know, and we just didn't bother to find out. And we thought we were inventing Oroville all by ourselves. So I think for me it was very humbling to find all that, you know, that we suddenly hadn't invented the future and the mother had thought about all those things. And even the lake, even what she was saying, and then was so far ahead and we are still struggling and, you know, fighting with everything, but it'll happen, total confidence that Oroville will be. It's not our project, it's in her hands. You know the answer? Yeah, what came to me the last days was that the earth needs Oroville. It's such a deep need that humanity goes through such a chaos now, that there has to be something like a lighthouse on earth to show that there is a duration, there is something. So in that sense we have an incredible responsibility because it's a very, very serious problem and Oroville has a role to play. Also sometimes I wonder why the mother wanted a city, a city implies all the capacity of man, you see, all the professions can be participated. And what is sad now in Oroville, I know some people who came here with either higher education or talent and they have no way to express their capacity. And that's sad because it's a loss of efficiency of the human capacities. So for all these we need a city, we need 50,000, we need this vibration of the people, all over the world should know that there is a hope, there is a duration. And there should be a place where one can come and say a few months and end vibe and go back to that. So it's very, very essential that we wake up and it's time to face the challenge. It's difficult, but at the same time you see for example at one point I was doing a lot of sailing boats and for someone the only souvenirs are the best souvenirs at the moment when it was very difficult, when we almost died because there was a storm and those are the... We don't remember the flat sea when it was cool, we remember only the difficult moments. So we are nurturing a very good souvenir at present. We don't know at the same time I have a great hope that we will come through. And I think the main thing for all of us is that how do we take this experience through that it doesn't and doesn't get stalled in any way. That's the main thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But she's talking about that before the architect came. The first time we have her talking about Auroville, she's saying water is a problem all over the world now and there there is no water. So it has to be brought up. We have to be brought up by the sea and there are places like in Israel or whatever where these experiments are being done in desalination. So she had already thought about that and she already thought about that, the lake becoming also the central place for the drinking water and other water system of Auroville. So finally when the architect brings her, once Matrimandir starts, he brings her the plan and she literally passes it on, gives him the credit as though he thought about it and says he has made this plan you know and there's going to be water and then it'll go through, it'll be recycled, be used for agriculture and then be stored. So all that was envisioned straight away. So and she does say that, you know, water is still, it'll come, it'll have to come because the water has to, the lake, in the very first conversation she's talking about running water going all around and then she says it'll be in the middle of this lake and that is decided. So we will see, it'll change, it'll bring another dimension into our, into the city because right now we are sort of, we've gone undercover, under the trees. So once that'll open up, we don't know, it's like we don't know what would, you know, we were building the Matrimandir, we had no idea what it would be, what kind of experience it would give to people, you know, it's only by doing it that you come to that experience. So once the lake will be there, influence or, you know, atmosphere, it'll bring into the town, only once it's done we will know. I think we should close now, it's been pretty long. Thank you. Thank you for the audience. Sure. Yeah. One moment of silence. One moment of silence.