 So if I want to be a little nicer to Keith, I can just move that up a little bit there. Alright, we're only going to introduce your strength 20%. So when he could no longer get this line, his real-time force output, into the green zone as dictated by his strength today, we cut the workout. Okay, so you're going to see this spike, and you're going to see Keith competing against himself in real-time. So this is about 25%. We'll do two repetitions and then let's look like what you did, and go from there. All you power up. So you see his real-time workout output compared to what he's done previously. Two, one, hinge like you're dead lifting. Make that line go back up. You see he creeps back into it because he's on the eccentric. His number's moving up higher and higher and higher right there. Lean back and forth. Fast, fast, fast. You see he gets it back. He's running after. He's still in the green zone. Two and one right there. Lean back and do it. Spike right eccentric because you're going to go higher the second time because that's what it does for Keith. Just a little higher. There we go. Right there. One more full range rep. See he's having trouble getting back up into it. You can see that in real-time. Last negative. Hang on to it. Drag it up, Keith. Approach it. Approach it. Get to it. Get to it. And we'll talk. Good. So you can see you bring the camera back closer to whatever angle you need. He's peeking. He's peeking by the third rep. He barely creeped into that. So the fourth rep, if this was one of my clients, I'd call it because I know I wouldn't make it to the green zone again. Welcome to the 21 Convention Podcast. My name is Steve Maeda and I'm your host for today's episode. Today we got Mark Alexander. He is a fitness expert, an entrepreneur, a true visionary. And what's so important about this podcast is we combine them all. And it truly represents what the 21 Convention is all about, being the ideal man and expressing it to the world. Now, Mark founded a fishing exercise which started out in Austin, Texas and has since spread throughout. But you may have heard of that because Keith Norris and Skylar Tanner are also rooted out of there. They're 21 Convention speaker alumni at multiple conventions. Now Mark also is the CEO of something that we get into in great depth in this podcast, which is ARX Fit. It's an amazing tool for man working out, getting more muscle and getting more bang for your buck. And we will get very, very deep into that piece of technology. Now, if this is your first time checking out what we got going on at the 21 Convention, subscribe to our channels, whether you're listening to this on iTunes, whether you're watching this on YouTube, leave a comment, subscribe, get involved with what we're doing. We love to hear about you. We personally get back to every single comment that's put out there. And of course, if you want to take it a step further, go to the21convention.com and see what we've got going on there. Hey, here we are with Mark Alexander. What is going on, man? I'm doing all right. How about you, Steve? Doing fabulous. We're both actually in Austin, Texas, which is very cool, the epicenter of everything, which is like making life change. But what we want to talk about are a couple of things. Now, number one, as we had conversations about a little bit earlier, you founded a company called Efficient Exercise in Austin, where I have worked out at and is amazing. Skyler, we've interviewed. Keith obviously is a big part of the convention. But also ARX Fit, which if people do not know about, man, they need to know about. In fact, God, I've been thinking about since just a few days ago, we were at one of Mark's facilities. And that machine is phenomenal. And there's only been amazing improvements since. But also, you're a part of the Paleo FX as well. Correct. So, man, what's the best definition and introduction that you could give yourself? Because you have so many things. Yeah. Well, I mean, I like to have a lot going on. I kind of, you know, people ask me what I do. I guess I usually say a health and wellness entrepreneur, because I like to get things up and going, get the right people in place, right teams in place, and then kind of get the hell out of the way. There are times when I recognize that, yeah, maybe I could be doing this or that, but I've tried to, and not perfectly by any means, but tried to be aware enough of when I'm needed and when I'm not. And you brought up Efficient Exercise. I founded that February of 2001. So almost, well, probably by the time this air is 14 years ago, which sounds kind of wild in some ways. But, you know, of course, it was just me and starting it out. And now I've got a great team. You mentioned Skyler Tanner, another 21 convention speaker, Keith Norris. They're both business partners in Efficient Exercise with me now. And they really run the show a lot more than I do. I mean, of course, we're there and, you know, we keep things moving forward and I kind of monitor growth and things. But, you know, they're really the dudes, if you will, in that business, much more than me. I'm way more behind the scenes in that business. And then, you know, selfishly, it kind of always being an efficiency fanatic. I thought, well, surely there are better tools for the job in that particular business. And so, through each old friends and Skyler being one of them, I was able to connect with an inventor, Randy Renfleisch. And Randy and I have been working on what is the technology known as ARX, or Adaptive Resistance Exercise, for a good handful of years now. And, yeah, just now we were at the state where we're about ready to launch it into a production mode. So we've been kind of making it, doing beta testing, do a lot of research and development over these last five years. And we're at a great place right now to where, yeah, I've got a few more gray hairs right now, but it's well worth it because I think this tool is phenomenal. And it will, you know, once people experience it and understand it and get their hands on it, they really understand it and help a lot more. Man, I got to actually this, I got to get to some entrepreneurship questions for you. I wasn't even thinking about asking, but so many guys that are into the 21 convention and such a huge part of it is business. I mean, if we're going to have independence, if we're going to be the best version of ourselves, you have tremendous experience in this in very different ways. But, man, let's start off about fitness stuff because, you know, it's something that's really been on my mind a lot. When I, the first time I ever set foot in an efficient exercise, it was a smaller area and, you know, Keith was there, you were there, Anthony Johnson was actually working out. And, you know, I actually had maybe just started working out from the age 16 to 30, you know, nothing, just nothing and a whole lot of abuse that went in there too. But, you know, I saw him work out and he nearly passed out. You know, he almost, you know, got nauseous and I was like, what is this? All he did was, I think maybe a leg, yeah, it was a leg press because he said his legs were sore for like a week and some pull-ups and maybe, you know, something else. Some kind of press, I think, I don't remember exactly, but yeah, it was very simple though. And it was the one of the earlier versions of the ARX machines and I was like, oh my God, I got to check this out. And I think within nine months, I was working out with you guys and with your team. And, you know, I've never felt that strong. I could say a lot about the ARX. It's a very amazing machine that you, it's hard to describe exactly how it works, but it's like nothing else. That all being said, man, what is health to you? This pursuit that you've been going after, trying to perfect in an efficient way, built a business that's, you know, gone 14 years at excellence. And when I talk about excellence, I mean, world-world class, what is this thing that we're going for? What is health? Yeah, well, I think it has to be sustainable. That's probably one of the first things that comes to mind. So, you know, we heard for, are we always here, is, well, I don't have time to work out. I don't have time to exercise. Well, no, we've taken that excuse off the table now. We've condensed and truncated what you need from exercise for health. And let's get that right. It's for health. If you're an athletic endeavors and high-performance athlete, I know you like jiu-jitsu and time on the mat, you've got to spend time, you know, in your skills and technique. And whatever it is your pursuit is, you have to do that. But the nuts and bolts of the exercise and the proper resistance training is fairly simple. A lot of gurus want to tell you, it's got to be this and this. You've got to split the routine. You know, it's like, well, that can work. But we've tried to really keep it simple and keep it sustainable. And if you really don't do that, it's not going to last very long. And so our big tenants with efficient exercise and with ARX as well is safe, effective and efficient. We've got to always meet those. We give our trainers some liberty under what they might do for a particular client's goals. But at the end of the day, we want it to always be safe, effective and efficient. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, man, what makes it different? Because there's so many different, you know, I mean, I've worked out that I can vouch for it. And I know people that have worked out with you guys and gotten very specific results. But what makes your model different? You know, what makes your, and this is the crazy thing, you know, Skylar, Keith, yourself, everybody else involved with the company. And you guys have a bunch of trainers now. What makes you guys so unique? Because there's tons of people giving you fitness advice that, you know, it's sold as unique. Yeah, well, I think it's kind of a team player approach, setting egos aside, learning from each other, and leveraging high quality talent. I mean, I think that we have a lot of high quality talent on the team. And people that are, you know, there are a lot of people that they can own their own health and fitness journey pretty well, but they're not good teachers. And we don't want those people. We want people that not only walk the walk themselves and own their own health, but then can convey that to other people. So that's a big quality we look for. Sometimes, even at the expense of experience, we take people on because we see that willingness. We see that, you know, drive, if you will. Hey, maybe they haven't trained a day in their life. Sometimes we still take them on and then empower them with the right tools. So ARX is kind of the cornerstone, if you will, of a lot of our programming. And because it allows a person, really, it doesn't matter so much. It does, but it limits, I guess, the impact of experience, if you will, in terms of the practitioner side, the trainer side, you can deliver a high-quality workout without, you know, it's literally the push of a button, but it's a little more than that, but again, it's not much more than that. So the Software Helps Guide keeps everybody accountable, shows the progress, and again, it is kind of quite literally pushing buttons to make sure that everything's going properly. Man, and to speak on behalf of the ARX, from my understanding, because it's very hard for people to, I mean, it's easy to, it's very simple, but for people to realize the benefits of this, I worked out on it, I believe, and man, maybe in 2010 or 11. Probably so, yeah. And it was pretty unreal. So what this does is it can do all sorts of different exercises, squats, well, leg presses, you know, like a chest press, a flat pull down, you know, many different movements, and I think now they're even a wider range of that, but it has a positive and negative, and currently you can control the speed of that, and I believe you could when I worked out on it, but it goes at one pace. Yeah, yeah, so I mean, if you want me to describe it, and again, you're right, it does take a little bit of doing sometimes to properly describe it, but it is this man versus machine phenomenon. We know the machine is going to win, but we can manipulate those variables and see on the software that, you know, hey, we can see exactly what is going on during that set at any given time, even really down to microseconds. So the adaptive nature of it is that there's a motor, computer-controlled motorized resistance that's dictating, you know, kind of the show there, if you will, and the performance of the set is displayed and stored in the software. So in other words, yes, the speed is, it's not technically the same all the time because we purposely program slower and smoother starts and stops so there's no jerking of the loading. And so that's by design. It's also by design that we've designed the machines around large compound exercises. So leg press, squats, deadlifts, pull-downs, various angles of pressing. In other words, you don't have to do a whole lot of exercises if you do the big compound movers. And so I know a lot of listeners probably know Body by Science and Doug McGuff is kind of big five. So there's some similarities, if you will, to that in that, you know, besides maybe the exception of we like to add a hinge movement, like a deadlifting type of movement, there's really not a whole lot of difference in terms of what our exercise prescription is versus say like a big five type of routine. And then again, the motor is going to win, the machine is going to win, but we can go at all-out effort, 100% effort at all times if we want. That's what we like to show people. And what it also does is it takes advantage of the fact if you draw out a strength curve. Again, I'll try to back up here. And as we're lowering a weight, like a barbell bench press, we can handle more force or exert more force than we can when we're trying to lift it off our chest. And again, I'll just use that example as a common one that a lot of people know. So in a gravity-based system, we have to select a weight that we can continue to get out of the sticking point or the weakest link, if you will, in that exercise, and that's a linear progression. So let's say that's 135 pounds. And if we were to select that, even though maybe we could have lowered 250 pounds, well, we didn't get to take advantage of that because you don't have these little elves running around trying to shed plates and then throw them back on and you just can't do it. You can get closer with something like a chain or a band or a nautilus cam, for example. All those are great ways to get towards that angle, but then it doesn't take an account limb lengths. It doesn't take an account individuality, fatigue, rate of fatigue. So a lot of host of factors that we're capitalizing on the fact that it is truly adaptive as the set goes on and it doesn't matter who it is. So somebody like Keith, who a lot of people might know, I mean, for a calc of a guy, he can sit down and then, you know, his mom could sit down quite literally and there would be no setting changes. It's going to adapt to Keith or his mom or whoever else gets on and you don't have to make any setting changes, which is pretty cool from a client density, as we call it, you know, getting more people in per hour, if you will. You don't have to slow people through so quickly because you don't have to do a whole lot of setup, you know, get on, go. Yeah, and actually, let me tell you about my first experience working out at a fish and exercise. Same thing happened to me. I was passed out, had to sit down, took me about five minutes to even be in a place where I, I mean, like panic sets in, it's pretty intense and, you know, I can tell you the other times that that has happened working out and it's only one other time that I'm doing a very, very strenuous, you know, leg exercise that just... But, you know, it took my body to get used to working out in that way. Let me actually tell you about the benefits that I have because this is kind of the most important thing that I think with ARX that is so key. I remember I was training Jiu Jitsu and, you know, I was wrestling with a guy, a very, very strong guy, a smaller dude extremely strong, like total body strength and, you know, he just had a, you know, man, he was good. I mean, he was, you know, I was a beginner back then and he was like, you know, a brown belt or something, which has been training for like five, six years. And I was stuck in a position and, you know, I'd been in this position many other times and I pressed and it was, I don't know how long, but maybe it was 10 seconds, you know, which is a long time of exerting your muscles. And I just remember I had full strength and throughout the entire, you know, press of my arm, nothing has done that for me, nothing ever. I've worked out with plenty of amazing guys that I could say great things that are unique in their awesome ways, you know, doing, you know, like working on the negatives, going slower, adding weight on the negatives, using chains, anything like that. Nothing compares to that enduring constant, you know, it's not just, it's actually breathing, you know, while exerting my full force and well, maybe not my full force, but my body was used to it. Managing that sort of workload and strength. I've never felt anything like that, that has replicated, man, that's come close to it. So that is extremely unique. And the other thing is, man, I actually forget the sets and the, you know, different workout that I did, but man, it was like 20 minutes. And I think I would do maybe five, at most five reps of whatever I was doing. And after the third one, I was dead. I mean, after the third one, it was like, it was just going through the motions if there was anything after that. Well, and even our experience has shown kind of what we like to prescribe, if you will, insets and in-rep schemes on ARX. And you know, you say 2010, 2011, I mean, we've had a few years under our belt to kind of know what works well. And so we've even been able to grow and kind of experience, well, maybe that's too much. Okay, now maybe we back it up or maybe we do two shorter sets and go chase and another cool thing about software is if you do a first set, you could go into a second set and try to beat yourself, either that being the same day or a subsequent workout. Yeah, yeah. And when I was working out on the machines, it didn't have that awesome graph. There was something else that you could watch, but it's also very hard to concentrate when you are, I mean, guys, if you do not like the amount of force you're doing because like, like you said, if I'm, you know, have a 70 pound dumbbell and I'm doing a press on it, I'm going to stress myself, but there's probably somewhere in that motion where I could take 100 pounds or 120 pounds. So on this machine, you will be doing that. You know, it's like, and you could actually see where you're doing that. It's hard for me to watch in real time because it's so insane, but afterwards you can look at it. Matt, what are some of the results that you get for people because you have a wide range of clientele, you know, from people just trying to get in shape, getting back in shape to athletes. Yeah. What are those results? Yeah, well, and I'll just back up real quickly just so you kind of know our audience, if you will, and know who we serve primarily. I mean, there are some athletes that we serve and athletes are great. You say jump, they say hi, and they're a great population to work with, but they don't always pay the bills. And I know a lot of trainers don't like to hear that. So we really aim to serve, I guess, more of the 80-20 rule or more of the masses, people that don't have time, people that are busy. Usually it's a working professional or a mom or whatever it be. And our demographics usually about 35 to 55. Of course we have outliers, but just kind of the working professional, if you will. And so with that crowd, what we see is that people get phenomenally stronger, no doubt. And then again, you know, as much as I love exercise and love, you know, what it does for you, if you don't have a clean diet, you're not going to probably have the results that you want to see. A lot of people and probably these listeners, you know, you want to get ripped, you want to get strong. Well, a lot of the, you know, the ads are made in the kitchen, not in the gym, you know. So you've got to do your work. And it's not even work. It's just living a lifestyle again, kind of going back to sustainability. You've got to find what works. I mean, you can go through peaks and valleys as long as you, with your strength, with your health, or directionally always trying to go up and to the right. Kind of like the stock market. Just try to follow that trend. You're going to have ups and downs. Everybody does. But, you know, as long as you can manage those falling off the cliffs, you can keep climbing back up. So, man, that's interesting because when I worked out with you guys and whatever it was 2011, I believe it was then, you know, I was working out a lot. I mean, a lot. And, you know, for you guys, I was just working out once a week, which was plenty. Some guys go twice a week, which, you know, you can do that. And I guess it depends on your body type and all sorts of different factors. But I was doing a lot of stuff on top of that. And when I dexascanned myself, which was a little bit later, I think I was no longer with you guys. And part of the reason for that was, like, I had a massive travel schedule and, you know, life comes up and all that sort of stuff. But when I dexascanned myself, I was 22% body fat. Now, I was in shape. I mean, I was in shape by any means that you would measure fitness and what I could do. But still, you know, all that fat. And I did a podcast with Keith, talked to me into going full bore paleo. I was probably going like 80, 20, or 70, or 30. To me, that's not enough. And, man, it just, it just came off. And for you guys, if you're measuring with calipers, you might be going 22%. That's huge. If you're going dexascanned, it's a little bit different of a, just stay consistent with whatever you're measuring on. But dexascanned is very, very accurate. You know, there's arguably one other measurement that might be a little bit more. But it is. Yeah. I mean, it's become the gold standard and kind of academia and research. And I'd definitely say if you have access to a dexascan, oftentimes, well, there are businesses now that are based around dexascans. Yeah. But a lot of times, at least I see it, is that universities offer it for some type of fee. So I would just say and encourage listeners that that is the gold standard. If you have access to one, if you're in a college town, university town, you probably have access to one. You just need to check it out. And yeah, just be consistent with it because it's a little bit of a humbler because there's a lot of visceral fat and other things that calipers do not pick up. Dexascan picks up everything. And so you're usually higher on a dexascan than you are on some of the other methods. And I think, you know, I got down to about 14% and that was ripped, man. Yeah. In my mind, shredded. 14% on a dexascan. Yeah, it's like a 7% on a, you know, a caliper kind of reading area. I mean, it's, yeah, it's, yeah, it's ripped. Yeah. But okay, so this brings us back to something else and like I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I talked to you guys a little bit about it, but I am really infatuated and I think this is a big part of the 21 convention, getting back to what we are made to be, what we were born to be. Yeah. And you're around Keith, you're around the Paleo FX, you're around all these, man, these huge minds, Skyler, you know, it's like freaking being around the ultimate athlete and the ultimate PhD athlete. You know, it's just these crazy minds of people that are driving forward. What is, you know, how does that fit into what you guys are doing? Because yeah, you're running a business. You have all this awesome efficiency, this high technology, but I think for you, the standard is a little bit beyond that. When I bring up, you know, born to be in what your body's meant to be and born to be healthy, what does that mean? What is our natural state of health? Yeah. Well, I think unfortunately we're far from it. If you say what we're born to be, you can look back at a great book called Manthropology. It's M-A-N, you know, we can see that, I mean, and I'm just saying this as, again, the Dexascan is a humbler. We're probably as strong as some females back then. I mean, and that kind of, you know, it kind of, you know, there are probably many females of those eras that could beat us in arm wrestling. You know, it's just, we have kind of digressed, if you will, in our health and especially our strength. And that's unfortunate. Now we can, you know, even if we're dealt a bad genetic hand, we can reverse some of that. So don't get discouraged. I just want to, you know, kind of give perspective that you said, are we close to where we're born to be? And I think the answer there is no, but we can make strides, you know, back towards it. And then you also said something about, you know, gosh, just being around great minds. Our whiteboard sessions that we have every Monday are just a lot of fun. And it does look like a beautiful mind in our war room, if you will, sometimes where we just have all sorts of ideas. And you know, we're, you know, I think all of us, I shouldn't say all of us, but a lot of us are, you know, kind of this combination of brain, left brain to where we like to think creatively, like what's next. But then we also like to come back to the science and the research and say, well, does that work? And we have a great balance in chemistry right now. And I'm just, you know, I'm thankful that we've got that going. And, you know, something like payload effects, for example, is a great opportunity for people to check out, what is this ancestral idea, this ancestral lifestyle? It's not literally going back to the cave and the spear. Although, you know, there's some goodness, if you will, to being out in nature and things like that. But it's checking out, what are the practical steps, if you want to get back to what you're saying born to be? What are some practical steps, kind of where the rubber meets the road of trying to get back there? And it basically relates to kind of a nutrient dense whole foods diet. Some call it paleo, but again, there's even derivatives of that. I don't like to get stuck in the minutia. And then also, you know, some type of exertion that relates to resistance training. And again, if you have the right tools or great tools, perfect. But you can still do it with body weight and with other lesser means and lower tech tools, if that's all you have access to. Yeah, man. I mean, it's interesting, you brought up that, let's say females, man, over 10,000 years ago, that were growing up in kind of a tribal culture or society or even tribal cultures now, that their strength capacity is more than, would you say the average man or even guys who work out in the gym? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'd have to go back and look at some of the, that book as I referenced, but I think that an average female then is stronger than an average man now. I will definitely say that. Yeah. It's a low average. But you know, that's interesting because like, you know, I think with a lot of stuff with paleo and a lot of stuff with, you know, as we're getting into this and even in your niche of efficient exercise, we get so caught up in the efficiency and we don't get back into what it was really meant to do. So I see a lot of guys in the exercise or fitness industry, it's almost like we're getting so efficient that we miss the point and, you know, we almost get obsessive with like all this sort of stuff and we, you know, get more stressed out. Yeah, yeah. You know, I haven't heard you talk too much, but man, when I hear Skyler and Keith and, you know, really what's coming out of stuff, the paleo effects and everything really coming out of your camp, it's all sharing this message that we have to be like entirely, you know, healthy in a way. And I remember asking Keith years ago, years ago, I mean, at least three years ago, you know, what is, what is stress? He's like, man, the body, you know, from what we know now, you know, give real humble answers like from what we know now, we believe that stress is anything that is stress. And that's going to throw off your nervous system. And when your nervous system is thrown off, you're not thinking the same. Your speed isn't the same. Everything about you is taken down to a different expression, I guess you could say. And that's where a lot of us are functioning on, which is a bummer. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, anything, exercise is a stress in and of itself. Right. It's a stress that, if done properly, produces a better result. But nonetheless, it's a stressor to the body and a lot of people don't like to think about that. Now, conversely, you're absolutely right. There's some kind of, you know, high-intensity training advocates, which nuts and bolts of high-intensity training has great premises. It's directionally accurate. Don't get me wrong. But there are people that will take that to the extreme, just like a paleo diet. For example, they can take that to an extreme, where, you know, it's not about working out for 10 minutes a week in the right way. And then sleeping, sitting on the couch, eating Cheetos, you know, I mean, you have to move. You should be doing some other things. And then obviously just keeping your mind active. And again, what this type of workout has done for me personally is, you know, it's allowed me to be an entrepreneur. It's allowed me to be a family man. It's allowed me to do so many more things, because I mean, I just have to be honest. I don't love the weight room like I used to. And that's okay. I mean, I still, obviously, I'm very invested in it and invested into developing the right tools. But it just doesn't quite do it for me, you know, if you will, like I used to. That's totally okay. But I'm excited, if you will, by other things. And so I think we have to discover that. And to me, the exercise done properly is this kind of springboard, if you will, and the lifestyle of kind of like a paleo-ancestral diet lifestyle. It's just a springboard to allow you to be a free thinker, to be, you know, kind of what you're, as you're saying, born to be. It gives you more energy, more strength, more endurance, kind of everything, really. If you're doing it, it's going to propel you, if you will, to be a better man, a better person. And actually, I mean, I'll say for myself, really in 2012, the conclusion that I came to was before then, you know, God, I can't do the math in 37 now. So three years ago, I was 34, right? So from 30 to 34, I was working out, trying to do everything, you know, doing whatever. It started out with like the Bill Phillips book. And you know, for the time, that was awesome. You know, it was great, you know. And actually now I love looking at him because he was such a great marketer for that book. I mean, Jesus. My God, you look at that thing, it's like the best copyrighting ever. But man, you know, and that helped me out. And then there were other different things, doing like, plyometric stuff, doing running, whatever, and just trying to find my niche within it. And as soon as I switched the diet, you know, and you think better, and there's so much that I could talk about my experience with that. But the main thing was, was that I no longer had to chase an image of health. It wasn't really about like my body. It was kind of accepting. It was like, well, I'm this and this is really how I think I'm supposed to be. So let's try and maintain that and use that as a little bit. Yeah, and you mentioned marketing and that just kind of sparked something in me. It always does. Yeah, yeah, it's always, you know, it's unfortunate. I'm not sure there are many other industries other than the world of fitness. And you can probably come up with some examples, but that marketing is so powerful. In other words, it can be away from the science. It can be away from what actually works over, you know, again, in a sustainable way. But it's so powerful that people, you know, pick up on it and that's what they do. And the fitness world almost like no other has these trends. And it just cycles through, cycles through. And if you've been around long enough, you quickly see there's nothing new under the sun. It's like, this is just another version of what came out in 1989. Don't, you know, anyway, it's just, it's, it's, it's comical yet sad, you know, so, so I, I get frustrated sometimes in that, you know, a marketer or a really good marketer would be ahead of us if you want to call it that because they're a good marketer. And so that's one of the struggles that we have is, you know, you know, I don't think anyone on our team is naturally like a good marketer. So, you know, things like this do help though, to just kind of get the message out and hopefully spread a good, you know, a good word of, hey, you know, check out what is going on because, you know, I think it's a different enough approach where, where again, I know some of the listeners probably already somewhat adopt a high intensity training lifestyle and a paleo lifestyle because Anthony's been kind of, you know, sending that message out for a while now. But, but I, but I think that unfortunately we're still, especially in the health and fitness world just smashed by all these like awful trends, awful gadgets and people still believe that crap, which just baffles me sometimes. Well, you know, I think what's interesting or the probably one of the coolest things is what I've seen with you guys because like I said, the first time I saw was in 2009 or 2012. And you know, just seeing the company grow, seeing the skill set grow, man, you've always had great trainers around you, but man, it's just, it's more and it's more obvious. So it's weird, you know, to measure yourself by the outside world and any industry that can get exploited much like health and fitness, you know, into have a progression is, is really that natural flow. And man, that's the other thing too, is like when we, you know, hey, maybe we should talk about the entrepreneurship because what has kept you, when did that bug get set off in you? You know, you said at first weight room, you dug that, you had some, well, yeah, I mean, yeah. No, no, yeah. And again, don't get me wrong. I'm a pretty laid back guy and it's hard to really see me, you know, fluctuate emotions very much. My kids might tell you different, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I'll try to kind of trace some steps back. I grew up with string training literally all around me. My dad and I had a, you know, kind of worked together and we got a lot of help. But we had a garage, I shouldn't say garage, it was actually a physical wood structure, like a barn that we converted into a gym when I was growing up. So that was my playground quite literally. And that was the first, if you want to call it zen like moment, but like I'm slightly introverted, you know, I'm kind of right in the middle between introvert extrovert, but what energizes you as an introvert is being alone. And that time in the gym and my formative years of growing up in the backyard gym is really what just kind of did it for me. I'm like, wow, this is, there's something special here. And maybe it wasn't until maybe athletic endeavors that I kind of realized like, oh, that shit was really helpful. But it really didn't even matter. Like it didn't matter about a blue ribbon or whatever. It was just that time really was special. And so, you know, then there was a lot of me that just was like, well, yeah, athletes do this all the time, but like, can the normal guy do this? Can the normal person do this? So there was that fuel of like, how do you bring this to just kind of regular guy? And so, you know, I went to University of Texas. I've been here in Austin ever since. It's a hard place to leave. You probably can vouch for that. And add many years of debauchery and, you know, a lot of fun here. But when I cleaned up my act, I did, you know, finally graduate and got hired on by the university and athletics department. And looking back, a lot of it was actually business skill development. In 97, they took a big turn towards let's make this a business. They trademarked their logo at UT. They did a lot of things that are very business oriented, which looking back was great experience for me, just kind of being around some of that. And what was frustrating was seeing what was going on in the weight room. I just, I was a little frustrated. I don't have to, you know, go into great detail, but I just knew that, you know, working for athletes or with athletes is fun in some ways, but it wasn't fulfilling. And I think the fulfillment didn't come because one, I have that kind of entrepreneurial bug, if you will, and a university is a bureaucratic environment, which I can't stand. And then two, the people that you're serving, if you will, I don't know, maybe they're just not appreciative enough of kind of what their genetic hand is in life. And, you know, maybe an athlete's a bit of an entitled egoist sometimes. Sure. And that's okay. But it's like the people that don't have a great genetic hand or might have some kind of debilitation or something along those lines, those people are really fun to work with. And we work with, I mean, I think it's 75 to 80% of the people that come into Efficient Exercise have something, as we call it, some level of brokenness, rotator cuff, knee, back, hip, whatever it is. They have something going on. So in Austin, that is one of the ways we're kind of known is, hey, we can work around kind of whatever your issue is. So I think going into the entrepreneurial side is I knew I couldn't stand, you know, being in a bureaucracy, if you will, and being in that type of everything takes forever to make change. So I started, looking back, I'm kind of laughing at myself. I was basically using the UT facilities in an illegal way. I'll say that now. I was training people in the facilities that weren't a part of the UT system. So anyway, put it out there. Come get me. But I was doing that and realized this is more what I wanted to do. I wanted to help people that were outside of the athletics sphere, if you will. And so, started up my first place in Northwest Austin. And I still live right around it. But anyway, it was very small, very humble beginnings, if you will. And like you said, none of our places are that giant. It's not, think big box gym, and it's kind of antithesis of that. We're way, way different than that. We're much smaller. We're, you know, trying to make it a more personal approach. And that was one of the fires for starting the way that we did is, I felt like there's so many people that probably hate the gym. Well, why not come see a business like us? So, yeah. Well, you know, that was the, man, gosh, Anthony will kill me, but the guy that started Nautilus, his whole approach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His whole approach was to change the way that you could experience fitness, which is now, you know, the norm, you know, before it was like, you know, weights, hot area, you know, like kind of an oppressive environment. And he was like, no, man, we could have machines that are safe, that anybody can do in an air conditioned environment so that everybody could have health. But you guys are taking it a step further. And I think that's interesting because in your business model, you're kind of like a boutique of. Yeah. I guess you will. I mean, Arthur Jones was definitely an influence in my world as well. And just a real quick backtracking. My father, who is an internist, went to school with Ellington Darden. They were high school classmates. And so. That guy's a personality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was one of Arthur's right-hand men, you know, Jim Flanagan, there were several of them. So I kind of knew about all that stuff, but I was in a smaller town in Texas and there was not an Nautilus gym. One finally did come and my eyes were wide open. I was like, wow. So this is what I've been hearing about. This is kind of the experience, if you will. So that definitely played into my formative years. I went from backyard gym to that. I think they, again, business owners and gym owners oftentimes are dunces when it comes to business, but I think it failed at some point. And so then we had to, I had to scrap around for where I was going to work out after that. But no, I mean, you hit the nail on the head with some guy that saw something and did something right in many ways. You know, he was directionally accurate. Again, I'll say that. I mean, now we know some of the research and some of the things that he was speculating might not have been entirely correct, but that's okay. For his time, he was definitely an innovator. And really, since that time, I haven't seen a whole hell of a lot come out that's very innovative in our world. Yeah, yeah. And so you guys, I mean, one of your business models for efficient exercise was to make, I mean, it has this feel that it is very clinical, extremely personal and very high tech. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the clinical, I mean, we want to be clinical, but not come off so stark, if you will. Right. Yeah. Like Ken Hutchins really drove home, you know, kind of this clinical approach to exercise. And I was super so certified back when. And again, I always try to see the good in a lot of systems, a lot of people, whatever. And there was some good in that. I mean, he was a systematic guy, maybe to a fault in some ways, but he still drove home. A lot of these kind of exercise is medicine type of principles that we still try to implement, but yet we don't have to do it in a white lab code under fluorescence. You know, I mean, it's nothing on the walls and no personality. I mean, no, I mean, you know, people are people, people like other people. And that's one of the ways that we've thrived as well. I feel like our people are good. You know, they're good people so I think that's, aside from the fact that they know what they're doing, you know, you've got to be a relatable person. And if you can't talk to people, you're probably not going to have much success as an efficient exercise trainer. So, yeah. Man, this is a, you know, when I went to the last 21 convention that was in 2014. Yeah. A lot of the guys there, this was a huge thing. We're focusing on business, how to set it up, how to structure it. And you have found progressive people. I mean, like, man, people that are doing amazing things. I mean, PaleoFX is on the map of, I mean, it's just such a huge event. Yeah, which quick plug. I mean, definitely check it out, paleofex.com and look at the event in April in Austin. It's so worth it. It's, again, it's one of those things until you experience it, you don't really know kind of how great it is. Right. Yeah. Sorry for interjecting. How is it that you found such great people? Because, man, I mean, that is just, that makes your job so much easier. Oh, yeah. An entrepreneur that's extremely different. Yeah. I mean, I can kind of go back to key people in the business sphere that I've found. Skyler, I had done an internship when I was at the University of Texas when I decided to finally get my act together and finish up. After withdrawing for a bit and getting back into school, I was out in the Scottsdale area and Skyler was a high school student out there at that time. And, and so when Skyler was out there, I don't remember exactly how it went, but it was, he was like the youngest super slow certified trainer at the time. I think he was 17. He'd probably be able to correct me. I don't know. Maybe he was a senior. I can't remember. But I was like, hey, man, just take me through a workout. And I knew like, hey, this kid has something. Like, like I just saw it right then. I was like, hey, you know, I'll take a mental note of that. And I knew I was going to be starting a business and everything. And so, so I, at some point reached back out to him and was like, hey, man, do you want a job? I'm opening up a new place. It's got your name on it. And he visited Austin and kind of the rest was history there. So he's been with me, I think coming up on 11 years now. So it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then with Keith, there was another manager that I had at the time. And it was one of those, I get the rug pulled out from under you experiences, but one of those like silver lining was way better than, than I would have expected getting Keith cause he was looking to move back to central Texas to get out of corporate pharmaceutical world, which, you know, I don't know if you know much about his story, but kind of went into that thinking he was going to help people and realized, oh, this is not the path to help people. And so it just, it was just a timing thing that Skyler was the connector there. And I was talking to Keith through online stuff. And said, you know, look, I just lost a manager. You'd be a perfect fit. You want to come down and check it out. He did and he's, he's been here ever since. So really, I mean, there are some, I don't know if you want to just say just kind of serendipitous, if you will, to, to having people that become at the right time. And I think, you know, oftentimes as an entrepreneur, you, you have this ebb and flow, but you have to control certain things, but you also have to let go and not be in control. And recognize kind of the flow, whatever you want to call it of, why is this person in my life? Why is that per, you know, and try to, try to always kind of ask those questions. Like, well, it's not like every person you meet. And in my opinion, it's going to be the next person to work together or partner up with. But again, you know, there's, there's just kind of these, these things that happen that sometimes if you're open to it, you can realize, well, maybe that should be pursued or maybe that should be pursued. So, and again, I don't know if that's taught as much as experienced, if you will. I mean, you can tell people that, but then you have to go out and kind of experience it and kind of integrate it yourself. So, man, you know, I think what's unique about your take on this is that you've cultivated, not just two, but multiple like really excellent, you know, guys who help out in your business, but also they've progressed to do their own things and you've let that. Whereas most businesses will then brand that and try and own it and only intellectual property. So, where does that come from? Was that learned or is that just an ideal that you? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's a good question. I mean, I think in a lot of ways, like I said, I do try to see the good in people. And, and, you know, I've learned the hard way in other times with other people around me that like, you know, I've been burned, been burned a lot of times. And that's, that's probably from me trying to see the good in people and then I get taken advantage of. And so, I've also learned that I do need some people around me sometimes to kind of protect that. One of them just being, hey, I've got an attorney sister. So she, she helps kind of set some boundaries for me and is always trying to keep up with the next thing that I've got going on. So, but, but again, it's not like, you know, by any cost, I want to avoid legal stuff. Although, yeah, I mean, in business, I've been a part of that. And you just, it's kind of one of those things you just, you get through. But, but I think that, to your point, I think you just, you try to empower people more than limit them. And, and I think you're right. I think call it ego, call it pride, whatever, some people can't get past like, Hey, this is my shit. This is my world. I've created it. When this new guy's coming in, he's not going to do anything that is not under my control. And it's like, well, you're just limiting yourself in the possibilities there by limiting the people that have strengths and skills. So, I mean, I always try to look for like, you know, the top two or three things that I have to do in this particular business. And then everything else kind of gets funneled off to somebody else. And of course, in startup world, you're doing everything. But if you can quickly, in a sense, fire yourself, you're doing the right thing. Man, that is easier said than done. A whole bunch of great, you know, taking it back to Keith's old blog, but that's a whole bunch of great theory, but putting it into practice is man, like, you know, that is, that is really, really difficult. And I, you know, I rarely see that, man, I rarely see that with all the people that I know and, you know, just living in Austin, you know, a bunch of people that have businesses and all that sort of thing. But, man, that's freaking crazy. So then what, you know, you got efficient exercise going, you know, these guys just, you know, these different trainers that you hire, you know, they take it to, you know, a full expression. And that was quick. I mean, I remember you guys got like three or whatever locations, you know, and it just grew, you know, just very rapidly. And then you're like, all right, this ARX thing, let's do this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we kind of purposely knew internally that we had some growth going on as great stuff. But one of the biggest hurdles we have is how do we teach other people to do what we do? And so we knew that if we develop these tools and take our time and develop ARX properly, that's going to help propel this growth, if you will, and this expansion of being able to implement proper exercise kind of literally around the world. And so, you know, it was a methodical process and painstaking at times. And, you know, I'm kind of a sprinter versus a marathon runner. So it's been a challenge for me. I'll say I've had probably one of the most challenging years of all my life, the last 12, 18 months, but yet one of the most rewarding years of all my life. So we're doing things that we all enjoy and we all are moving forward in doing this. But yeah, it can be challenging and it's just, you know, I guess kind of keeping with entrepreneurial spirit is just, you know, I just want to encourage people if they've got this passion, just work hard at it and be, you've got to be methodical, but you've also got to, you know, kind of be enduring if you will. Like it's not going to be easy. And if you don't have, it's kind of like you got it or you don't. I think athletes are kind of this way. If you kind of have that drive and determination, you'll, you'll get through it. And then if you don't, you know, maybe you need to look elsewhere for, for other things. Sometimes you got to say no. So yeah. Man. Yeah. Now entrepreneurship, I think it's just such a great thing. One, we live in a country in a society where we can do it very easily. And, you know, I just look at it this way in terms of, you know, like diet and fitness. I have my own expression of my body. You know, one thing Doug McGuff said to me, he's like, you know, we're not all Keith Norris. Yeah. Yeah. Stop, stop trying to, to fit that. You know, you can look at it for a point of reference when you don't have one. But entrepreneurship, just like diet and fitness, you got to find your own expression and what that is. But man, when you bounce, I mean, look, man, I've never really seen a guy do what you do that, you know, I've been in contact with that has been really trained up these guys to their own independent expression and allowed them to do it. You know, yeah, rather than trying to rebrand or marketed or have this kind of scarcity mentality that is, man, huge around the fitness industry. Yeah. Massive. Yeah. I mean, I sometimes say, you know, you know that I'm surrounded by artists and they're going to continue to paint. And I just got to keep brokering these deals. I got to keep kind of allowing these to get out there because it's different enough and unique enough that it, you know, again, it's way beyond my own personal expression. It's way beyond me. So I'm just trying to do what I can to, again, you know, kind of a personal motto is get out of the way. I have to remind myself of that quite often where, again, if I'm, I can be in the way by doing, you know, things that are good on the outside. It's like, yeah, you're doing this, you're doing that, but it's like, well, if I'm limiting kind of the propelling of the overall growth, then I need to get out of the way. Man, you know, this concept of firing yourself or getting out of the way. What are some, if you can, I know, kind of like, well, hey, it's a podcast, but I'm just, you know, I'm attacking you with this question, but man, what are some of the things that lead up to that? Like what, how do you strategize, you know, to get that to happen? Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, let's talk about like finances, for example, you know, people, they do still have to, at the end of the day, think wisely about what you're spending money on and know that you have to spend money to make money. And I think that, you know, it's not, don't be scared of spending money, but you have to be calculated with those risks. And so I think that, you know, you have to do, you know, still start with a plan. You can't just, you know, go ahead and be like, I'm going to do this, I love it, and not have a plan. So you still have to have a plan, to get wrenches thrown at them and quickly change that plan and quickly adapt. And so I think that that's really one of the key factors, if you will, for success in business or in life in general, is just adapt to change as quickly as you can. If you're an instigator of change, you also have to be an adapter to that change. And so I think that there are people that, you know, have a really hard time with change. And if that's you, you probably don't be an entrepreneur, because change is going to get thrown your way left and right. You're going to be Bruce Lee, Dodging it like water. And you just have to accept it and embrace it. And sometimes again, that change can, can again just be the propellant to something bigger and better. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, man, for guys who are like young entrepreneurs who are looking to this, man, this was amazing. There were guys, I mean, I don't know when you started your business, but for me to even think about business really before God 30 or 28, it was, it was kind of impossible for me because my brain was just going so many different directions. Yeah. Now there's these kids. Yeah. And I want to say you guys are kids, but they're successful and they stay successful, which is really crazy. Yeah. Because I don't, I bet against them, you know, a lot of times, but you know, seeing them year after year, it's like there's these young men who are just getting it way too quick. Yeah. And, man, what would you say are some tips for those guys who are looking to start their own business? Well, I mean, I think it's, you know, you're a Generation Xer as well. Yeah. And I think that, you know, we all have our place, I think with Generation X right now, you know, we've lived long enough to know that you've got these kids, as we would call them, that are coming up. I think the biggest advice I'd give to the millennials or, hell, I don't even know what the younger generation is, is, don't, don't carry out that sense of entitlement. Like, you know, there is a little bit of old school work hard that still, that still is valuable. So don't get me wrong there. And like, and sometimes for some people, life comes easy. Hey, that's great for them. But a lot of people that have been successful have had to go through obstacles and overcome things. But to their credit and to their advantage, you know, we, we didn't grow up with the internet and all this stuff that they have just grown up with and don't know any different. There's huge power in getting kind of your message, whatever that be, out there. And I think that's the key to success on a lot of those people is, is leverage this technology that's out there to, to be of good. Technology is going to continue to evolve and come out faster than any time ever in history. And, you know, just use this, the technology that is going to be of use and be valuable, because sometimes technology is not. And so, I think it's kind of maybe generation X, we've learned to be able to kind of ebb and flow some of that. So like, even though the phone is always around and we could always be doing stuff, I think sometimes you have to be, you know, aware enough to put that, put it down, you know, stop it. I try to, and I'm, I'm criticized by some of the ones that are very strict on off schedule. And I'm not saying I'm perfect about it. When I'm off, I don't, I can't contribute to the business or to whatever it is. And, and it's, sorry, you called me after 7 p.m. Sorry, you know, like I'm not going to be available for you that particular day. And I think, again, trying to give credit where credit is due, some of those millennials have that on off already kind of ingrained more than maybe what we grew up with. And so, what you're good at and again, leverage that technology because a business, even efficient exercise to start up is not an expensive business, but it's not an inexpensive business either. And there are so many businesses now that have really changed kind of what a quote business is. And so, I think, you know, really the advent of the internet blogs, you know, YouTube, everything that is out there that can be valuable has changed the way these people can do business. So, as Generation X, I think we can learn from them sometimes like, oh, that's how you're doing this. Oh, that's how you're, you know, so, and then to those guys, I think they just need to maybe look to kind of our generation to say, you know, these guys have put in probably more hard work than us. They've lived a little longer, kind of more as the guidance and the wisdom, if you will, along that path because they just, you know, haven't had enough life experience sometimes to know man, I mean, personally, I still don't trust anybody in business wise that hasn't lost everything yet, you know, because that's, I mean, I mean, that's when the true expression comes out. I mean, we see that in so many different ways of life and yadda yadda yadda, but, man, I think one thing where technology we have to be careful of is like diet and fitness. I mean, the more technological we became as a species, the more screwed up we got. Now, our life spans went longer. Yeah. But, it did the quality of life. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, one area that I think is going to evolve and impact health and fitness in a huge way pretty soon, and it already is, is the biometric data. And one reason we've created ARX, for example, the way that we've done is we hope to be pioneers on the resistance training side of biometric data. There's a lot of, you know, Fitbit, Nike, I think even Apples jumped in this game of kind of tracking, you know, a sort of pedometer type of stuff, heart rate and all that. Heart rate variability is another one. So, my question is now what? Okay, we have all this data and now what? So I think that's the question to be answered in the next several years is we're starting to kind of, you know, call it biohack or call it just find out information about ourselves. What are we going to do with it? And I don't think we really have all the answers yet, but that's the way to leverage this technology and this knowledge and this data to our advantage and, you know, things that we, like you said, there's definitely some lifestyle factors that are hurting us. We know that. But how do we tap into what we can do to improve our overall health and well-being? Man, it's so amazing. There's probably even now with all the technology we have, I mean, surely, even now, there's so many little things that are probably hurting us. You know, there's so many little things that we thought were helping us as we were growing up that were, causing so many problems. And, you know, I'm sure there's a long list of other things, but I really feel, I really feel, this is what I like. Actually, what you guys bring an interesting mix, it's very unique, is that high technology, high technology, but also, you know, I mean, I don't want to put words in your guys' mouth, but it seems that the standard really is your, you know, got what we evolved to be and going back to that nature. You know, just even reading certain articles and publications and articles with Skyler and Keith, you know, just going back to a community, what's going to make us socially happy and that's just a very cool thing. Yeah, I mean, and Keith has said this, I'll just quote him, leveraging modern technology to achieve ancestral wellness. So, so, you know, again, use technology when it's valuable because, you know, cavemen didn't have ARX or cavemen didn't have some of these tools. And so that does mean it's like exercise. So, I don't think that's a bad thing. And then I think what that does is allow us to use our mind more instead of just survival mode like a caveman, for example, is progression and evolving because, you know, there's huge potential if we put our minds to the right things. Yeah. No, man. Yeah, very cool. You know, one last kind of thought that I want to get back towards is, you know, getting into this podcast. Yeah. You know, see you, is that one of your main things? Yeah. What is some, you know, advice that you could give to somebody that, you know, is trying to sort through all the health and fitness stuff out there because there's so much and they, you know, man, like me when I was 30, I hadn't worked out, didn't know what to do. You know, and I just finally shut up and listened to a friend and said, all right, I'm going to get this book and do it. Yeah. And then I found other stuff and there, but what is something that a guy, man, just, you know, trying to find everything and, you know, is trying to find a ground zero or a point of reference and fitness, where can he go? Well, I mean, if it, if it glitters, probably run away, you know, like, so keep it, keep it simple. Again, we've designed kind of what we do around resistance or strength training work. So I think if you're going to exercise, knock out your proper resistance training first and foremost and design that around the kind of, we call it push-pull drive. I mean, we try to keep things really simple. What's a push? Well, anything that kind of drives force away from your body, you know, flat bench type of press, overhead press, incline press, decline press, dips, anything along those lines. So we have push-pull drive. So the pull, some type of chaining motion or pull down or rowing motion, okay, do that. And then drive, that can be something like a leg press, or a squat, or a deadlift, or a squat lift, or a trap bar deadlift, something like that. Just find, you know, if you would look at kind of my workout routines and even to a certain degree Keith's or Skyler's, I mean, Skyler has a little more variety, but fairly boring and simple. Like it doesn't have to be like, well, he did, you know, one arm, this, no, I mean, that's for fun if you want to do that. But just the basics are what you want to start on the food side of things is I would say I would look for nutrient-dense foods that give you high-quality protein and fat. And then I'm not like a complete low-carber, like where carbs are horrible, but just recognize what they do to you. They can make you gain some weight, which is sometimes good weight and some genetics and sometimes bad weight for other people. So just recognize kind of what they do. And so again, keep it simple, keep it safe, effective, efficient and, again, look for those nutrient-dense whole foods that are going to fuel your body and your mind for the long haul for kind of a sustainable approach, if you will. Because if you get burned out doing something that probably means there was too much or it's too frequent or something, some variable was off. So you got to find something, maybe it's not as sexy to think about, well, I've got to do this for the rest of my life. Well, but it's kind of like brushing your teeth. If you just say, so, same thing with exercise. If you just commit to keep consistent with it, it, you know, improvement starts to happen. Yeah, yeah. Man, yeah, cool stuff. You know, so what I hear is like a, something strength wise, strength, brain-wise. And definitely like look at that diet. Yeah. Man. And it also, you know, again, then kind of on the other stuff, let's call it movement that's still integral, but just find what you like to do instead of trying to make some, some activity, like exercise in and of itself. Find something you like to do and go do it with that newfound strength, kind of, you know, you know, we try to empower people with a bigger motor or a better motor, more efficient motor. So if it's, if it's time on the map, go do that. If it's time riding the bike, go do that. But it's, it's finding whatever, that's a little more individual and, you know, don't try to prescribe that. Try to have fun with that. Cool. Man, awesome. Where can people find out about you and all the different stuff that you have, ARX efficient exercise, Mark Alexander. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, so, so our bricks and mortar training business, efficient exercise, kind of, our 14 year old baby now, efficientexercise.com. Our, our resistance training technology we developed is ARX, ARXfit.com. Again, co-founder of Paleo FX, the largest paleo gathering in the, in the free world. That's at paleofx.com. And so yeah, you can, you can check us out and all the social media channels as well and in and above all of those. So, yeah. Good stuff, man. Hey, we got to talk again and surely I think we will just as, you know, I'm local and I'm sure I'll be talking to Skyler and Keith, you know. Yeah, we want to get you back in again. So yeah. No, man. Yeah, I got, I got a plan. But yeah, totally, man. It's working out like, talking. It's been good. All right. We'll see you, Steve. Yeah, later. Thank you guys so much for watching. You know how much we love to do this stuff and broadcasting out this beautiful message to the world of, man, how we can get into a better version of ourselves. That's what the 21 Convention is all about. And of course, go to the 21convention.com. Get involved with us there. If you like what you see, sign up on our newsletter, you know, talk to the different guys that are involved with our conventions. And of course, on this YouTube channel, there's a lot of interaction. And that's really why we do it. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. And let's talk soon.