 Four-foot broadsword, I said. No, no, no, no. Ceremonial sword. Fortunately, I don't think people like Sky News takers, seriously, because, you know, it's all a big joke. It's an honour to speak to have a king on my show. You want to take a druid to court for carrying a band, but I say, go for it. We swear by peace and love to stand, heart to heart and hand in hand. We worship the divine, but we see the divine through nature. Hey, all King Arthur, how are you, sir? I'm fine, thank you very much, and good to see you, Chris. Oh, mate, it's an... Sorry, I shouldn't call the king mate, but I'll tell you what, it's an honour to speak to have a king on my show, and I've been quite excited. Yeah, well, as Clive Anderson once said, you know, what do we call you? And I said, you know, anything you like, as long as it's not too early in the morning. I mean, my name's actually Arthur Uther Pendrag, and I'm generally known as King Arthur. I'm a senior druid and pagan priest down at Stonehenge, but I'm just as infamous, if you like, for my political stand and my environmental ones. So I've spent a lot of time challenging the authorities in one way or another. And I think we all commend you for that, King Arthur, you know. I live just on the edge of Dartmoor National Park, and it's stunningly beautiful up there. But when you drive out to it from the city, so say from Plymouth, increasingly every year, the car showrooms, the McDonald's, the fast, all the other fast food joints, just encroach towards the National Park. And I said to my dad once, I said, dad, do you think this is good? He said, oh, no, it's reserved land. They can't build on the national. I said, yeah, I get that. But who wants to be stood on a tour on Dartmoor looking at Kentucky Fried Chicken? That's right. I mean, but it's still better down there than it is. I mean, I live in Salisbury to be near Stonehenge. They call it a city, but actually it's a market town with a cathedral. You can walk across Salisbury. You couldn't do that with Bristol or London. And funnily enough, talking about where you are at Dartmoor, I was down at the weekend. I was down at Tocassin and Zener. I was down in Cornwall myself at the weekend. And it's beautiful down there. I mean, I'm the pagan priest. And if you take the meaning of the word pagan, it merely means country dweller. I mean, I don't think of myself as a country yokel. I was brought up, I mean, much like many army brats, I was brought up in garrison towns. I mean, my father had done 27 years. I'd done six myself. So coming from an army family, I was brought up in garrison towns. But having said that, I do certainly prefer the country to the urban sprawl of the cities. Let's talk about your military career, because that's fascinating. Not a lot of people leave the mob and then go on to be king. This is true, especially coming through other ranks rather than Sandhurst. I mean, I think of myself these days, really. I ride a motorcycle and that's the sort of iron horse. So I think of myself from that point of view as a cavalry officer. Although in the army, I wasn't. I was a private soldier, 2434-1883, First Italian Royal Hampshire Regiment. It was great while I was in, but when I came out, I went back, funnily enough, into the building trade. And it was some years later that I found myself cut the trees at Newbury and the security saying, you never get to win this, you're never going to convince people that roads are a bad thing. And do you ever? And I said, well, they converted me. I was a pilot foreman on the Peterborough bypass. And I ran a £609 million contract, Lang Management contracts in as a foreman. So I've seen it from all angles. And where I've settled is within the Druid pagan movement. I'm well known at Stonehenge, but I'm also well known for environmental campaigns. I mean, I've been arrested at all the best places. I'm well known for also fighting for the right to bear my sword and to swear on it in court because I'm a sword bearer. And people saying, you know, because I'm a Druid sword bearer, I don't think he's valid. But it's as valid as I proved to a court of law. You know, it's as valid as a Masonic lodge sword bearer or somebody from the world of academia where they have maces and things in universities. It's exactly the same. And I carry my sword for ceremonial purposes. I mean, what I suppose your listeners might find quite amusing is a little story I often tell about what happened at Kingston. I'd already fought for the right to carry what essentially is a Sainte-Ferre-Burne commandeur and Ife with a pagan pomelon, which is myothane that I use for chopping up herbs and things. I've got a big broadsword, a hand and a half Celtic broadsword but a full fighting blade called Excalibur. And a friend of mine on this particular campaign was whittling away a little piece of wood. And it sort of turned into a pointed stick for want of a better word. And he said, they're going to, you're a druid. He said, you know, these things are going to be a victory tomorrow, aren't they? I said, yeah, this was at Kingston. And Metropolitan Police came in by police law and say, well, it was a D-Day landings. And I was the first to be dragged off as usual. But he'd said to me the night before, hang on to this because I don't want to lose it. You've got a sword and a dagger. You can have this without being arrested for it. Well, needless to say they did arrest me and they arrested me for all three as bladed weapons and offensive weapons. So when they're writing, the custody charge is writing it all down. He gets to four foot broadsword. I said, no, no, no, no, ceremonial sword. So he writes down ceremonial sword. And he psyched for it, I said, no, no, no, no, ritual dagger. So he writes that down. He says, right, pointed stick. I said, no, no, no, no, thinking on my feet. I said, that's quite obviously a vampire's sake. You want to take a druid to court for carrying a vampire's sake? Go for it. Needless to say, I've got them all back. Brilliant. I mean, there's a lot of symbolism in the law and I tend to use my symbolism against their symbolism if you like. My orders called the law Arthurian Warband. And the word loyal was put at the front simply so we can say we're not breaking the law. We are the law. A lot of the druids originally said to me, how can you call yourself a druid when you're always getting arrested? And I said, look, my order is sworn to fight for truth, honor, and justice. And I cannot find a better place to fight for justice than a court of law. So yes, I'm always getting arrested but I'm always getting off as well because I'm always doing my own defense. And funnily enough, they had a so-called exclusion zone here at Stonehenge through the 80s that I challenged. And one of the young barristers who was on loan to me from Liberty, who assisted me in preparing the case for Europe was a young Keir Starmer before he embarked upon his political career. So yeah, I mean, I've met a lot of people who are also involved in different ways of taking on, if you like, the establishment. But you know, I just want to offer allegiance to the queen or heir and successors, as did you. So I suppose from that point of view, yeah, I'm a royalist but hey, it's good to be a king. So that works. So yeah, you use your symbolism against their symbolism and that's one way of doing it. But I am on a very serious note, always fighting for truth, honor, and justice as on my order. And truth, but it's like beauty. It's in the eyes of the beholder, right? I make people swear to speak the truth, but it's their truth that they speak, not mine. To honor their spoken word, that means if you say you're gonna do it, you do it. That's what honor is all about. And justice, like I say, is in the eyes of the beholder. If you know it's not just or if you think it's unfair, don't do it. Really, that's simple. So that's what as an order we fight for. Part of my sacred and imperialist is to fight justice, fight for justice in high places no matter what the cost. So that's what I do. No matter what the cost, I put up 500 pounds deposit every single election. And since, you know, 87 when Satya got her next term, I've stood in every election. First time I embarrassed the BMP until last place. Second time I embarrassed the new leader of the monster Raven Looney until last place. Third time I embarrassed myself until last place, but it doesn't matter. It's a platform to get out and speak the truth. But I'm just, but I tell you what, every single time I stood, I've increased my vote. I now stand as an independent here in Salisbury. And again, it's because I don't believe in party politics. I think they're all as bad as each other. It doesn't matter what party they are. They all fall on a party line and they're all as bad as each other. So I just say, if you don't like what's on offer, get out there and do it yourself. And one thing I believe is leadership from the front, not pushing from the back, henceforth, you know, I'm going to do it. So yeah, I've stood at every election. I keep increasing my vote and the way the country's going at the moment. It looks like I might be MP for Salisbury at some stage. Who knows? But I'm still going to keep fighting. And I mentioned the exclusions owner. What they're trying to do here at Stonehenge is much the same, but instead of excluding processions within the World Heritage Site, what they're doing is they're stopping cars coming in. So they're closing all the byways open to all traffic in and around the World Heritage Site. But what it's really about, it gives English heritage, who have got visitors to the center, the monopoly on parking. So what they're doing is they're all working together with the rest of the authorities, i.e. the police and the council, in order to sew it up at Salisbury's and Equinoxes. Because as I said, I worked with Keir Starmer. We took it to the European Court and they had to open up Stonehenge Salisbury's and Equinoxes, which they do. Everybody knows about the summer Salisbury's because we're in all night and it's basically people ticking it off the bucket list coming from all around the world. But it's also open for the winter Salisbury's and it's also open for the equal days in March and September. So that's what Stonehenge is for. It's for worship. One of the things that people mistakenly think is that pagans and Druids worship nature. We don't, we worship the divine, but we see the divine through nature. Stonehenge itself was set up as a great solar clock. It's not there to tell you, like a sundial the time of day, it's there to tell you the time of year and you've got to get it right. If you didn't get it right, ancient man, the whole of their society that would have been wiped out because the frost would have got to it if they planted it at the wrong time. So that's what it was for. Which of course they saw the priest cast, the proto Druids of their age, looking at shadows and saying, yeah, don't plant, yeah. Well, you know, that was wizardry of course and wizardry nearly means wise, man. So that same priest cast take it forward a few thousand years, i.e. to us, and the modern Druids, we're still celebrating the longest and the shortest days at Stonehenge. And we're there at dawn for the winter solar system. We'll be there this winter, but we won't be able to park unless we go into their car park and pay their parking fees. So I'm challenging that through the courts as well. Well, that's what I call a pay to pray policy. You wouldn't do it anywhere else. So why should they do it on us? Another thing I'm fighting for at Stonehenge is the return of so many ancient dead that were taken from a circle around Stonehenge. They were buried there with reverence. They were dug up. Some are in museums. You know, others are just behind cases in visitor center. And I'm saying, no. It's another thing with British law, you see. Any pre-Christian remains are not protected. You can find them in the bin. If you're making an extension to your house and you come across remains, there are two things that they consider. I mean, if they're within 200 years, you have to report them to the police and there has to be an inquiry in case it's a murder, obviously. If they're pre-Christian, you can throw them in the bin. If they're post-Christian, they've got to go in hallowed ground. They've got to be reburied properly. And I'm arguing for the same rights for pre-Christian remains specifically at places of worship like Stonehenge. When you think of Stonehenge from a Christian point of view, don't think of it as a parish church. Think of it as a cathedral. And it's also, I mean, even though the American, the young Americans are coming over for the solstice and they're effectively ticking it off their bucket list, it's still a pilgrimage. For one reason or another, people are making that pilgrimage to Stonehenge four times a year and doing such as myself, are fighting for their right to do so, free and open access, equitable for all. And we're fighting for the fact that they shouldn't pay. Whereas English heritage, you manage it, obviously have other ideas. Their idea is the more tourists that come, the more money they can make. So they don't say anything wrong in charging for people to park for solstices and equinoxes like I do. So we're always fighting here in and around Salisbury over the Stonehenge issue because they view it rather different to us. But there are lots of other issues in the country that are coming up from time to time that me and my order get involved in. Because generally speaking, we're sort of the political warrior arm, if you like, of the Druid movement. I often say, you know, I will fight for peace, but if we ever get it, I'm out of here. My gosh, I feel awful requesting something of the King, but the pen on the tables is gonna come through people's headphones, King Arthur. So thank you. Absolutely fascinating. Just going back to the Royal Hunches, is that, I don't know because obviously I was Marine, so Navy, is that a disbanded regiment now or are they still? No, they're not still going, they're in Malgemein. I mean, my father was 4546273 York and Lancaster Regiment. York and Lancaster Regiment doesn't exist anymore. And he's buried, I buried him in all the shock military cemetery along with my mum who died a fortnight later and I had her ashes interned with him. It's funny really. I mean, he'd done more service than she did or I did. She was just in the ATS during the war, but on their marriage certificate, it said corporal for both of them. My birth certificate, it said he was a sergeant and on my younger brothers, he was back down to corporal again. He was always getting busted back down, but as a King's corporal, they couldn't bust him lower than corporal, but I was merely a private. So, you know, they both outranked me from that point of view. But having said that, my mum who'd done the ATS got very good on her conduct upon discharge. My dad had done 27 years, only managed good and me who only done six, I managed exemplary. I didn't get any of them, I got satisfactory. So, I think that's the bottom line. It just means, you know, you've got caught more than me. Yes. And did you go to Ireland? Was that a thing at the time? I mean, obviously. No. Okay. No, I mean, a lot of my service was done in the new territories and Hong Kong, out in the Far East. Oh, that's my old stomping ground. Ah, well, we were at Gun Club Hill Barracks. Okay, I only really knew Tamar, I stayed in Tamar a few times, but did you... I mean, I loved the army while I was in it, but I wouldn't, you know, I don't think I'd like it. Once I came out, I mean, different things happened and different things changed. You know. Oh, yeah. But it was great while I was in there. And of course, you know, I grew up with the army all around me, with, you know, my brother doing so long in the army. And, yeah, he was at Mons Officer Connect School, but he was, you know, training the officers. But, you know, there was something that, you know, he always told me about, and I could see it happening, because we lived in all the shot, obviously. So I saw him taking them on the square, for instance. And it'd be like anybody, everybody knows what a sergeant's like. You know, everybody knows what a sergeant makes, like, you are a little man, what are you? But he'd put sir on the end of it. And he'd get away with it. So, you know, if someone I was in the army myself, whoever I wanted, I thought something was a stupid idea that a platoon commander would come up with. You know, I'd say, I think that's stupid. I wouldn't say I think you're stupid. I'd just say, I think that's stupid, sir. And there was nothing they could do about it. You just remember to put the sir on the end and you'll get away with murder. And Stonehenge is, why did they... I'm going to use the term rebuild it. But, you know, I've seen old photographs where they've dug all the stones up. No, you haven't. No, you haven't. That's a misconception. That's one of these conspiracy theorists. They say Stonehenge was only built in the 50s. It's rubbish. What they did do in the 50s was they made some of them safe and they put a couple that had fallen down back on top. That's all. So all they were doing, from their point of view, and, you know, you can argue which archaeology is the best. But all they were doing was lifting a couple of stones, you know, a couple of little tools that were lifting back up where they'd fallen. And one of the stones, they write it because it was dangerous that it was over an angle like that. So they straightened it up and put concrete underneath it to hold it in place. So that's the photographs you've seen. A rebuild. It's just a repair. And that was in the 50s. And can you explain more about the clock aspect? And why did they situate it in Salisbury? OK, because basically that's where they were. It's the oldest inhabited place that they know of, which is Amesbury, Little Village, and they found Neolithic remains there. They found it goes back thousands of years. What you've got to remember as well is Stonehenge is a misnomer that it shouldn't be, it's not a henge. A henge is not stone. A henge is a bank and ditch. So the bank and ditch around Stonehenge is a lot older than the stones themselves. And originally, you know, there is argument that they had wooden post holes, et cetera, et cetera. But it was set up and it's got an alignment, a dead alignment. And it's aligned one way. For the rising of the sun at the solstices on the longest day. But by being aligned there, directly opposite, direct along that same line, directly opposite, is where the sun will set at the winter, at the shortest day. So it's built specifically as a great solar clock. Funnily enough, very recently, with a BOAR coming back with our forces coming back from Germany, a lot of them came to Salisbury Plain. A lot of them are now in and around the Salisbury area. One of the plans was to build married quarters right on the sideline, right on the horizon, where you would see the sun come up on summer solstice as a senior druid from one of the senior druids at Stonehenge. I wrote to the MOD and they changed the plans and moved it to two miles. So it didn't affect sun alignment. At one stage, it was an airfield adjacent to it. And it was thought to be dangerous. So somebody decided they were going to flatten it completely to allow the page book, thankfully, Winston Churchill stepped in and said, no, you don't. And that's why Stonehenge is still up and was still up in the fifties when they come to put that bit of concrete in, as I say, that was all down to Winston Churchill, who would not allow them to flatten it for the airfield. So it's been there a long time and it's been there through many phases. And it's always been of one type or another, especially since the 1980s, a very political egg, as it were, because, you know, there's been the old Stonehenge Free Festival when there's been arguments over that. There's been exclusion zones put in place. There's been barbed wire put around it. And some people always say that Stonehenge changes with each era and everybody gets the Stonehenge they deserve. Wow, fascinating. Do we know any more Arthur on that? Because I'm guessing it's granite. Was that lobed from Wales? No, no, no, no, no, no. That's another misconception. The inner rings are Priselli stone and that did come from Wales. There's only one one quarry that could possibly have come from and that did come from all the way from South Wales. The big, big ones that the toilathons are made of, they came from the Marlborough Downs. So they didn't come as far, but even the Priselli ones are so big. It's enormous. Not only that, you'd need all the... There must have been a lot of tactical support along the way. I mean, because you've got all these different kingdoms at a time, all these different tribes, they must have been collaborating in order to bring them all the way from Priselli to Salisbury. So there's some sort of infrastructure in place that we know nothing of now. But there was obviously a lot of people with the same intent, put it that way, to get them there. And it's amazing. When you see them, I mean, when you see them from the road, you get some sort of perspective, but it's not to you stand under the great trilathons that you realise how big they are. Despite the fact that the Americans will say, oh, there's a nice pile of rocks. I mean, they're not rocks. There's a clue in the word stonehenes. But the thing is, right, when you take a trilathon, yeah, two uprights and something on top of it, a lintel on top of it, you notice symbol, you can show that to someone in... Anywhere in the world, I'd suggest. I reckon you could probably show that to someone in Mongolia and they'd look at the symbol and say, stonehenge. I mean, everybody says the only thing you can see for the moon is the Great Wall of China. But there are certain, you know, man-made, but there are certain man-made, I mean, like the Eiffel Tower, let's say, everyone would think of that as Paris. Everyone thinks of the trilathon as stonehenge. But like I say, the hinge was there long before the stones. It was always, I mean, and arguably, it was always a place of reverence. And one of the things, and I touched on it earlier, that I'm arguing about is there's a section of stones called the Orbri holes named after the person that found them. And recently they have found that within each of the holes there were cremated human remains. A lot of them were taken out in the 20s and beyond and since, and then replaced all in one hole. And it was that one hole they re-excavated in my time on my watch. And basically they're now sat in a museum. And that's what I'm arguing. They should not take away, or take them away, do your tests in, work out, whatever you want, you know, take them to your lab, do what you can, then put them back. They won't, there's also, you know, a lot of people may have heard of the Amesbury Archer and people like that. And there are skeletons on display. One, in fact, in the visitors center, at Stonehenge, ran by English heritage. And it's those sort of things I'm against. I was getting a petition together at Stonehenge or was picketing for a number of different reasons. But one particular picket, I was down there gathering signatures about that. And some native Haider, they call themselves, they don't call themselves Canadian, they're Haider people, they're inuits from North America. And they came over here and they were over here actually to repatriate some of their remains from Oxford Museum. And they could not believe that we were still taking them out of the ground over here and not putting them back. So they obviously signed my petition. And even in North America, some of the Native American tribes got together and done prayers, if you like, or the equivalent of prayers for my success in that battle to get these replaced. And it's a worldwide issue, but indigenous people fighting colonialists in the past and history taking things away. Well, we're still doing it here. Because like I said, that's the trouble with that particular law. Pre-Christian remains are not protected whilst Christian remains are. So subsequently you can do anything. And I believe obviously that, at those we lay to rest, stay to rest. I mean, a lot of stuff I'm talking about, you can find out more information on my website on the internet. I mean, just look ArthurPennDragon.org. And on there, you'll find you can sign up and get a newsletter from me that I send out every month. That goes out once monthly on the first set of month. And that tells you some of the issues that me and my order are involved in and some of the fights we are fighting for. Have some of the stones been removed over the years? You'd need a big rucksack. I don't think you can. I mean, but like anything, the same, are you three the same anyway? You'll find a lot of neolithic stones in Victorian bridges and things like that. So yeah, all the stones are not there. Yeah, yeah. So over the years, they have dwindled. But I mean, when is Stonehenge's circle when? You know what I mean? This we're looking at now is the Stonehenge's circle in 1950s. So, and as I say, before the stones were there, there was a bank and ditch there. It was a sacred place. I mean, one of the arguments I have with a pagan community is, because if you go around Britain and look at a lot of the sacred pagan sites, they were at one stage Christianized and churches were built on them, et cetera, et cetera. Well, that is for a very political reason. That's because there was a papal edict. And effectively, what he was saying was that they're gonna go there and worship anyway. You might as well build a church. So a lot of the pagans say, well, what, how's that doing on an ancient pagan site? You know, they've Christianized it, they've stole it. And I always say, no, no. You see, to me, it's the genus loci. It's the spirit of the place. It's a place itself that's sacred. And it doesn't matter whether you build a synagogue on it, a church, a chapel, a pagan temple. It's the place itself that is sacred. And a lot of people say, well, there's no reason why Stonehenge was sacred. Okay, so forget the was and think about the is. Think about the now. If people are going anywhere and using a church or using a temple or using a place of worship and worshiping for thousands of years, which is the continuity here at Stonehenge, it would become sacred even if it wasn't in the first place would not. You see what I mean? And it's the same, I mean, different things can be argued. A lot of people, pagans again, have a thing about free and open access at Stonehenge and a lot of them say to me, well, a lot of people are there just to party. They're there for the wrong reasons. They're getting drunk, they're doing drugs. They're not there for spiritual reasons. It's not spiritual enough so I'm not gonna go, this is pagans. To which I say, okay, well, robe up, turn up and make it more sacred. If you don't think it's sacred enough, put your robes on them, turn up and help me make it more sacred. And when they say, well, yeah, but I'm not going because the people were there for the wrong reasons. I give them an example and this is a true example. There was somebody in the middle of Stonehenge one summer solstice and there's somebody climbing up the stones. The guy in front of me, he doesn't know it's King Arthur's behind him. He's just looking up at the guy climbing and he's shouting, get down off those effing stones. Yeah. Well, to which I've tapped him on the back and I've said, that's rich coming from you. You was up there last year because I'd seen a picture of him in the Guardian. He spun around and said, no, that was a year before. Think about it. So that's why I say to the pagans, they may come for the wrong reasons but they come back for the right ones. So the first year he comes, he's part of the problem. The second year, he's proud of the fact he isn't. And the third year, he's part of the solution. He's telling them to get off. So, you know, who's to say who's right? This charging money for stuff that isn't even yours in the first place. This kind of goes back to, well, I mean, obviously it goes back probably thousands of years but it's a bit like the Robin Hood story, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot of that's based on paganism but it's not just pagans that feel that way. I mean, there's a famous story of turning over the money changers, the temple sets. You know, and it's exactly the same. I mean, a couple of years ago, and I went mad, they put a tent up a marquee at the solstice. Now, we're there to celebrate the birth of the season. You know, the longest, the shortest or the equal day and we're there for the dawn of that season. So we're there for religious observances. English heritage decided they weren't making enough money in their car park or at their visitors' centres. So they put a marquee up in the field right next to the stones and they were, and it's very apt to this particular podcast, they were selling t-shirts and the t-shirts they were selling, they stole hand rocks. I mean, you know, that to me was, and I did threaten them and they called the place. I did say, you know, if that was still there in the morning, I would be turning all their trestles over as there was a good precedent for that. How many people are attracted to these solstices? Well, at Stonehenge, it was going up to about 20,000 at one stage, it's come down now because they're into controlling numbers and they're into controlling numbers by parking charges, which I mentioned earlier. So, but yeah, so there was a time when, I mean, we always say you get sort of thousands there, tens of thousands there at the summer, thousands there at the winter, and merely hundreds at the equinoxes, which is March and September. So if you want a more spiritual time, then come along at the equinoxes. If you want a more interesting time, come along at the solstices and certainly if you want a larger crowd and you want to meet people from all around the world, come, I mean, now we've got these restrictions with flights and people not coming in. So I don't expect anyone to be coming in as would normally at winter, but in summer, you know, you can go around and hear so many languages because what happens, they have to leave us in all night because we're there to celebrate the dawn. So there's a lot of people there and they're not, you know, they're not just from Salisbury, they're from all over the land and all over the world, all over Europe. And certainly there's, there's funny really here in darkest Wiltshire, but there's always, always someone from the South American continent as well. Obviously the English speaking notions are attractive because of, you know, the whole druidry thing. And so there are people from all over the world come. I mean, Ashayman came on one year and from a photograph his son had taken and done a painting of, you know, some of the druids. So he didn't even know who it was that he found out it was me. But, you know, from around the world and it's, you know, tens of thousands at the summer solstice, thousands at the winter and hundreds at the economic. And it's not just Stonehenge where people are worshiping at solstices. And solstices are just what we call the solar festivals. Within the pagan wheel, there are eight festivals. There are four agricultural and there are four solar, but the solar ones are celebrated at Stonehenge specifically because it was built specifically for that purpose. And what, when, if I was to come to one say and do I have to, do they try and charge me to get there or can I, do people come and camp? What do they do? Well, that's a point of contention at the moment. I believe you should be able to come, pull up and just go and observe and not be charged. At the moment, they believe that you should come parking their car park, be charged for parking, which is why they say, no, we're not charging them for going, you know, we're just charging them for parking. So that's an imbatable point. But, you know, if you came by public transport or you walked or whatever, you can get in for nothing. Only four times a year, but four times a year, you could definitely get in for nothing and observe the dawn and take part in the rituals. There are a number of rituals going throughout the night at the summer, but the main ritual, of course, is at the dawn. And at the winter, we only get in virtually for the dawn and it's the same at the equinoxes, you know, we're just in and out before they open for business as usual, but they have to allow us our religious observances. That's what I fought for in the European Court when I fought against their exclusion zone. And that's what we have since 2000. We've been allowed in there four times a year to celebrate the dawn and that's free. Having said that, they're now trying to charge you parking. So it's self-tax if you like, as I see it. So that's why I'm arguing and I've already taken one application for judicial review against them and I'll probably be taking another because they're still doing it. King Arthur, let's talk about if we can, because I'm fascinated by this. Or, I mean, you hear the word pagan bandit around it. It's usually used in the negative, isn't it? Like bloody pagans. But as with everything in our history, we know very little about this stuff, don't we? Yeah, yeah, I mean, pagan means country dwellers. It comes from a Roman root for the name, but it's the same with the connotations that basically the Christians who were the ruling classes, if you like, were putting on the old religion. And so you get the term heathen and that's got the connotations, but all it means is someone of the heathland. So when you actually think about it, and now, apart from the big six, I would say that paganism and druidry are growing faster than most and are becoming more mainstream because of it. Because if you think about it, all they are, and it's the same with all the earth-based religions around the world and all the nature-based religions. People are thinking environment, people are thinking Gaia, people are thinking the earth's beneath our feet, people are seeing that it's in danger. They know that we're the ones putting it in danger, we, mankind, and they wanna do something about it and they're looking back and they're looking back not only to political countries and political alliances and tribes that your grandfather and my grandfather would have heard of, our fathers may not have, but they are re-emerging, all these other nations are re-emerging from these big blocks and they're going back to tribalism and really with the religion, they're going back to religions that worked. They're not going with the religions that didn't work. So they're looking back to earth-based religions that actually are about being in tune with nature rather than trying to have dominance over it. And so they're on the increase. So there are more and more, and because of some of the smaller points as well and points of law that I have challenged, for instance, have now changed to bring it up. I mean, the fact that I can swear on my sword in court, the fact that a Riemann prisoner is now allowed to wear robes in the privacy of his own cell, I have fought for these rights and they've had to change the law for those. And for other things, I mean, up until 1986, if you wanted to change your name, you could change your name, you could change your name by changing your name deed, you could do what you like, but you had to keep your Christian name. So a colleague of mine, we're actually a friend from school, when Elvis died, changed his name to Elvis Aaron Presley, but he had to be Ronald Elvis Aaron Presley because it was a Christian name and we were part of Christendom. Since 1986, it's changed. We are now viewed as a multicultural nation since 1986. So since 1986, they've been reviewed as forenames and you've been able to change them. But it's not just, you know, I mean, I changed my name to Arthur as a pendant. I couldn't have done it before I did because before I did, we weren't a multicultural nation. I'm about to keep what was referred to as a Christian name, but there are lots of people who changed their name. And it's not just a Druid thing or a Bardic thing. I mean, from a Bardic level, look at, you know, as I often say to people, you know, it's Sir Cliff Richard, it's not Sir Harry Webb. You know, there are lots of people, Eric Morkham, you know, lots of people, you know, who have changed their name, the Pope, you know, and go down to local convent or the local monastery, you're going to find, you know, Brother Peter, Sister Catherine, et cetera. There are lots of people who don't use their birthday for a number of different reasons. But as I say, up until 1986, it couldn't have been done in this country because we were part of Christendom. So things are changing gradually and slowly. And you are right, there are still Christian connotations and on the words, you know, sort of pagan and heathen, but they are being more and more accepted, a lot more. I mean, Druids, what do you know about Druids? And the most people will say, well, they didn't make a bit human sacrifice because obviously they're reading from the Roman point of view, it was the Romans who were writing it down, not the Celts. So they're hearing it from the victors, poor of you, who are basically flagging them off. What you've got to remember is the Druids would magistrate to their day, they were the law givers, they were the king makers, they were the scientists, they were the law giver, L-O-R-E and L-A-W. So if you went forward now to say 500 years in the future and then look back from an archeological point of view at Death Row, what would you see? You'd see someone going to an electric chair and you'd see a vicar there. Now, he's probably administering last rights. But who's to say that modern archeologists looking back isn't going to say, well, as a minister of religion there, therefore it must have been a human sacrifice. You know, and that's the same. So when people say the only thing they know about Druids is they've committed, they've just been reading tassicas or they've been reading Caesar. I mean, because they're the only sources that have been reported throughout the time. So yes, there are a lot of connotations put on the word pagan. Put on the word, I mean, a lot of people think pagans, they're all worshipers and you know, how ridiculous. I mean, they don't even believe in the devil. The devil is a Christian invention, you know. So at times they are a changing for the better I might add. Yes, I'm going to be honest, I don't really know. I mean, when I hear the word Druid, I think of like hemlock and wizardry and maybe some chanting or something. Can you just... All of which is true, but if you think the easiest way of doing it is just think of the Druid as a priest cast and then you're just realising that all the Druid is he's the person ministering to the pagan flock if you put it from that point of view. You know, there are many different types of Druid Druid as well. I mean, there are Druids learning Druids if you like who will know everything about everything. That's not me in my order, we're the warrior Druids. That's rather different. But there's also sort of Druids who are even closer to nature. But you know, there are people within my order. In fact, we have many Druids from many different types or many other orders that have migrated to my order. And there's a lot of cross-pollination if you like. So, you know, I often said to a number of Druids, I tell them what you train them, then send them to me and I'll field them in battle. But yeah, so it's even some of mine. I mean, you know, some of my Druids are so closer to nature than me. You know, wandering around barefoot on the top of mountains, you know, to be closer to nature. I don't do it, like I say. I'm a cavalry officer, but I ride in an iron steed. But if you think about the whole Arthurian legend, I always said it's three parts to it. And most people have only heard of one, which is the sort of Hollywood legend of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, you know, play arm and all that. Well, if you go back to the time it's supposed to be set, you'd realise they'd fall off the horse because the stirrup didn't even come over to this country until the Normans brought it in 1066. That was no way you had play armor. But so forget the Hollywood issue. And when you think of King, don't think of King, think of Chieftain. When you think of Knight, don't think of Knight, think of Mounted Warrior, and that's a lot closer to the reality. And the reality, I always say there's three realities if you like, or three Arthurians, three Arthurian ages. There's an archetypal pre-Roman Welsh, there's a post-Roman dark age British, and there's a post-Fatja, and I'm the post-Fatja. Now, whether the same spirit dwells within all three, you could argue, but I'm not out to convince anybody, I'm the reincarnation of King Arthur. I'm out to say, you know, I do what King Arthur would do worry here today because he is here today. And come on, this is the 20th century, which is why I've got an iron horse. I mean, I ride a motorcycle, in fact, I've got an Italian-style motor-gassy at the moment. But, you know, what's the difference between riding around on a motorbike banging heads together these days between whether it be druid leaders or whatever, banging their heads together, then the ancient Arthur riding around the countryside fighting Irish raiders here, Saxons here, going to each and every place, each and every so-called kingdom, because, like I say, the word king has been added with hindsight, so they'd be just chieftain. So after in a light cavalry unit, i.e. the Knights of the Round Table, would turn up then on horseback, and he'd say, do yourself a favour, build a hill fort here. Later on, that would be known as Arthur's Fort. Later still, it'd be called Camelot. That's why you have so many arses, so many seats, so many places claiming because it was a light cavalry unit going around the country, which is not very different to what I'm doing to this day. This is the third Arthur orian age, the third Arthur, who's doing what he's doing. But you couldn't do it on anything other than a nine seat. You know, you're not allowed on the motorway these days on horseback, except for the nine seat, and it would not be practical to do everything that was done then, and why would you want to anyway? You have to do what you do with the tools at your disposal, within the age of your disposal. Some of the things are, basically they have to be there, and they have to be the same like Excalibur has to be Excalibur, but you know, and it is a sword and it's a symbol, and the sword is a symbol as is the dragon. When you hear a pet dragon, it merely means head dragon, and dragon, war chieftain, the pen dragon was the battle chieftain. So it's a bit like when you think of, I don't know, from the North American tradition, and Native American tradition, you think of, you know, sitting boys in period, if we think of crazy horse as the battle chief, well, it's exactly the same. In Celtic mythology, it was called the pen dragon, which merely means head dragon, which is a battle chieftain, which is what I am, because often different druids who lead druid orders or different pagans or witches who are leading different orders come to me for advice, or for me to get arrested, or me and my group get arrested on a demo or whatever. So I'm still a pagan battle chieftain to this day. So the only thing that's changed is the setting, and the only thing about the setting is the time it's set in. But, you know, the land's the same. I mean, it was said that when Britain needs the most, King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table will return. When Britain needs the most, everybody thought it was to do with a foreign invasion or something like that, and sort of chronic from that style. Well, it isn't. Britain is a very land beneath our feet. And I'm sure that if I'm here to fight for this land, look behind you at that map, there will be people all around on that map who've returned to fight for their particular part of it. So it's far bigger than just the Arthurian legend, and it's written into the mythos of every culture throughout the world. The heroes will return when the land needs the most. I happen to believe that's now. Absolutely, yes. I know a lot of people that wouldn't, that would agree with you. Did you, are you aware Arthur, that the dragon is, that's the original flag of England. But you know the weather? Yeah, yeah. What you've got to remember about Wales, and Ireland, and Scotland, and Cornwall, and the Isle of Man, they're originally Brythonic languages have been pushed back there, but they were pushed there from the Romans who invaded from the East. So on the outskirts pushed back, I mean, those languages would have been spoken here in Salisbury, they would have been spoken all around these Isles, and they were pushed back not only by the Romans and then lastly to Saxons, but then in come the Normans. I mean, we couldn't even have this conversation if it wasn't for the Norman invaders, the Angles, the Saxons, the Jutes, even an amount of Herdo and other languages that go to make up what we now call English, the English language. It's not English at all, it's a bastard tongue. You know, we are speaking foreign languages. Our own culture was, you know, the culture of these Isles was pushed westward to the extremities by successive influxes of successive generations. You know, and not only that, there were Norse Vikings, Nordic, you know, Dane Law, everything, you know, and that's the rich mix that we now call English. I mean, we all think of ourselves as, oh, we're at English. I mean, it amazes me and what amazes me that is the American view. They think there's such things as a British accent and I always say, I don't even think the Coishman can understand a Geordie. I mean, you know, there is no British accent. It's BBC English, of course, that they're thinking about or Mid-Atlantic, as it was called, you know, from the 50s when Hollywood was first starting. But no, you know, we are a very rich tapestry within these Isles, but one thing is, you know, we are all brothers. And so we all think of ourselves as brothers whether, and when you actually look at the root of the words, I mean, Scotland, for instance, is named after an Irish tribe, you know, and Irish people, there's Scotty, who went over there prior to that. It was Pictish, of course, you know, and some of the words get changed, but the amusing thing about looking at the word is the snobbery in the English language. The fact that the Norman French is always the posh aside, rather than the Anglo-Saxon that came before. So before, you know, the Saxon word is seat, for instance. You know, it isn't, though. The word for seat is stool. So stools, the Saxon word. Chez Lonson, that's where you get chair from the Norman word, but there was a word prior to both of them, which was seat. I mean, it's like the old joke about how do you pronounce it, you know, in England, book, look, and cook, or book, look, and cook. I mean, I always say, well, above a certain place in these aisles, you know, they'll have a bath below that, they'll have a bath. I'm a druid, I just bathe. And Arthur, before I forget, did you ever meet Swampy? Yeah, he was in the next tree to me at Newbury when I got my first arrest. We called him Swampy, because every time he dug a tunnel, he went below the waterline, and it was like a swamp. He was in the next tree to me, yeah? I know the Swampy very well. Well, I did at Newbury. Is he still around? Yeah, as far as I know, yeah, like last I heard, he was getting involved on the whole HS2 thing. You know, there were a lot of people who I met on the Newbury Bypass protest, who went on to do other things. A lot of them went back to college, because a lot of them were just taking a year out. So a lot of them went back to college and become accountants and other things, you know, historians or whatever. Two of my order who were involved on there were both chemists, you know, one was an analytical chemist and the other was a production chemist for a heavy industry. You know, just because someone's adrewing doesn't mean they haven't necessarily had training or had a day job. I mean, like I say, I was running jobs in the construction industry before I was at Newbury. And, you know, since, obviously, I mean, I'm now a full-time do-it. This is what I do. What you see is what you get. You know, I am full-time 24-7. I was a bedrag and I wake up King Arthur, I go to sleep King Arthur. Money King might have got me crown on there. No, seriously, I'm a full-time do-it, but there are a number of do-its out there who hold down other jobs as well. And it's the same with pagans. You think of pagans as these, you know, and you think of tree huggers and you think of whatever you think of, you don't realize that a lot of those tree-hugging ladies who have got children at your local school, in fact, they may even be the teachers from, they may even be teaching, you know, your children at the local school. You know, we're all human beings at the end of the day. And a lot of us hold down normal jobs in society. I mean, I'm as well-known in Salisbury as for the fact that I'm a would-be politician and I fight in a general election. So I'm known as a political animal in here in Salisbury, but I'm just as well known as, you know, the druid from Stonehenge. But I'm also, you know, known in the local shop as the guy on the motorbike who comes in and, you know, gets his druid fluid from here or whatever. And the last thing I wanted to ask is, are you familiar with where the name Hollywood came from? Well, as in Hollywood. I mean, it's very well. As in, it was what they used to make the magic ones out of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As in Hollywood, well, and the studios over here, Pinewood coming, a lot of things come from the trees, okay? The lungs of the earth as we now refer to them, but always in Celtic mythology, knowledge of the earth, that's one of the meanings of druid. It's basically, well, it's for my name's Arthur, I'm a druid. And I'm fighting for truth, honor and justice, but druid is dare with. And that means knowledge of the dirt was the oak. You see, it's knowledge of the oak and knowledge of the trees. So there are a number of different ones that come from a number of different trees that are used for a number of different reasons. But Hollywood, Pinewood, Hollywood, you know, look at the root, it means a holy well, you know, and a holy tree would depend on which tree, whether you're talking about Pinewood, whether you're talking about Rome, whether you're talking, I mean, because all of the trees have different properties. And in mythology, they were used and in spirituality to this day by pagans, they're used for different reasons. So they're all very, very revered throughout the world. So the fact that, you know, there's a Hollywood in America is not surprising because it's an English speaking place. So it has taken that tradition and use that tradition and come from that tradition. Yes, apparently Hollywood was founded by these, if the story is correct, by these sort of ultra switched on, young Jews who were running around New York trying to start their Nickelodeons, you know, the cinemas. Yeah, yeah. And when they came under competition from people like Kodak and Edison, that the people that made all the equipment and obviously started to get the monopoly, they all went out west. And many of them were very well versed in, versed in the occult. And they took this esoteric language out to Hollywood with them. And the name they called it Hollywood was after the stick that in pagan times, they made the magic wand out of. And that was to cut the air apparently to let a spirit through. I won't pretend I know Arthur, but like I say, different woods were used for different reasons. So that's just a generic name for Hollywood. You'd have thought if they were that verse in the occult, they'd have got the word right rather than just using a generic name wood. But the fact is a lot of things go back. I mean, it's like touch wood. You know, touch wood. Again, it's going back. A lot of things we do. We don't even know why we do them. But there was a reason for them in the first place. I mean, when you sneeze, you say, bless you, the reason for that is in medieval times, they thought for that brief second, your soul had left your body and the devil might nip in. So it's a very swift form of exorcism. You know, everything comes in. But if you look at some of the things, you know, what I enjoy doing is looking at the root of it. I mean, when you think of Humpty Dumpty, for instance, and you think of this egg on a wall, it doesn't make any sense. Once you realize it's a siege tower, Humpty Dumpty sat on the board, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. All the King's horses, all the King's men couldn't put it back up to the wall. Once you realize it's a story of a siege tower, it makes sense. Same with Goosey Goosey Gander. It was us. It wasn't the Germans that invented the Goose Step. It was the iron side. It was Oliver Cromwell's crack regiment. So Goosey Goosey Gander, and the old man who wouldn't say his prayers, wouldn't renounce the King's that he threw him down and says, they're all based somewhere along the line on some kind of reality. Whether it's accurate or not is another matter, but the essence is there. So the essence is still carried through, and this is what I believe. And the essence is still carried through to this day. So I don't like people calling me nice. Nice. The original meaning in Anglo-Saxon is naive and stupid. Do you want to be thought of as naive and stupid? No. So you look at the roots of words, and that instills it or imbues it with an amount of power. It has like symbolism. I mean, it has that power. Also, it's just a word. It's just a name. And Arthur, it's been absolutely fascinating chatting to you. Gosh, I wish we could chat for a few hours more. But me... Well, like I said, keep in touch. Let me know when it's going out. I'll put a link in and, you know, anybody wants to know any more about me, check out ArthurPendragon.org, and you can sign up for the newsletter. Do you have any social media? Yes. ArthurPendragon on Facebook. Yep. So it's all out there, and anyone wants to really do their homework and learn about me and what I'm up to, you could do a lot worse than looking at me Wikipedia entry. But I'd suggest just put searching on YouTube. There's lots of footage of me doing lots of things. I'm a very busy guy. We'll put some links below the video. Yeah, that'd be great. Arthur, King Arthur, just stay on the line if you would, so I can thank you properly. But massive, massive thank you. It's just been an absolutely legendary chat. Really, really... Yeah, and hopefully some of your viewers will get something out of it. Yes, I mean, you don't often get to hear a king talking... No, this is true. I tell you, a long time ago, I had a row with a bank who wouldn't let me open an account. And they said, no, can't you be a Viscount or something? You know, the machine says, no, we don't have King on here, because we've got a Queen at the moment. You know what I mean? So I said to them, well, what if King Hussein of Jordan walked in here? You'd give him an account, wouldn't you? The fact is there are kings. They don't have to be kings of this kingdom. And yeah, I'm not going to advertise, but basically they changed the program. Brilliant, brilliant. And to all our friends at home, once again, massive love to you all. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Bought the T-Shirt podcast. If you could please like and subscribe and tick the notifications bell. That'd be wonderful. And we'll see you next time. Thank you.