 In this episode of Mind Pump, we talk about supplements, but more specifically, we talk about the five most overrated supplements. These are supplements that you see on the market right now, heavy, heavy marketing, lots of people talking about using them and all their benefits, but we dive into the science, we talk about our experience, our personal experience, our experience with our clients, and we explain why we think the following five supplements are totally overrated. We start out by talking about branched chain amino acids, then we get into fat burners, then we talk about nitric oxide boosters, then we moved it to testosterone boosters, and finally, we talk about collagen protein. Again, listen to this episode and hear why we think those products are totally overrated. Also, this month, MAPS Split is 50% off. Now MAPS Split is a hardcore, bodybuilding, physique competitor, bikini competitor type workout program. It's six days a week in the gym, so you need to be relatively advanced to follow it, but boy, the results you get from following it are incredible. We've already gotten some before and afters from people who follow the program and they're nothing short of spectacular. Anyway, it's 50% off, right? So here's how you get the discount. Go to mapssplit.com, that's M-A-P-S-S-P-L-I-T.com and use the code SPLIT50, that's S-P-L-I-T-5-0, no space for the discount. A little while ago, we were talking about like, trying to, and we had to write these down. Doug, you've got to start making a little list when these conversations happen. Of all the failed ideas or things that, do you remember, you guys, we shot, I think we did at least five of these YouTube videos, where we did the green screen and we would talk about somebody exercising. Oh, yeah. Remember that? And we never aired them, because we sounded like we were just picking on. We were just like bullying. Yeah, so we're like, uh, we were this close, though. It would have gone like crazy, though. I think so, too. I bet it would have gone, I bet if we watched it now, that'd be amazing. Oh, we would get so much hate, though. I don't think so. No, no, we would get so much hate. I was talking, I was talking in an interview I just did, and they asked me like, one of the challenges, be a bully, that we have now today with the business. And I go, one of the greatest challenges that we all have to think about now that I think is really different than how Mind Pump started is, we have to like, really, like we used to like, no holds bar, say whatever, talk shit to whoever, because we were the little guy, and everybody's rooting for the little guy to beat up the big bully. We don't look like a bully. Yeah, right, because you're punching up. Yeah, so it was back then, we were so small, it was like we could call people out. We actually titled episodes, Mind Pump versus certain people, name. Because we didn't, you know, because they gave out bad information. But anyway, that reminds me, we should talk about the five most underrated, overrated supplement. Yeah, it's a little throwback. Since we're on that screen. Well, I think that we owe it to our audience, considering that we did the five, probably the most valuable supplements, and we went into that, and that was, Yeah, we got to balance it out. That episode went viral, and we're getting a lot of response from that. And I think, okay, if we're going to list the top five, we should come up with a list of what we think are the bottom five. Now to be clear, these aren't the worst supplements. They're the most overrated. Overhyped. Yeah, because there's stuff out there that's a complete, that's nothing. There's no use for them whatsoever. But they don't get a lot of hype. They don't have a lot of advertising around them. Yeah, we wanted to... We tried to think of some popular ones that a lot of people think are going to do a whole lot for them. No, that's exactly what we did. Well, the first thing that we did was we went, and we searched the top 25 supplements sold, and then we pulled the five out of that. So we didn't want to waste our time with some bullshit that somebody's, you know, snake oil, somebody's hustling that's got a small percentage of the market. We want to address the big sellers that a lot of people are buying into because of the great marketing behind them and how overrated are they really with their overall results, whatever there is. Right, now to be clear, if you look at marketing, if you just look at pure marketing for the most part, most supplements are overrated. And what I mean by that is if you look at marketing, companies will have... And this is, by the way, this isn't just with supplements. This is with any product you buy. It's typically overrated when you just look at the marketing. Because they'll have you think that taking the supplement will solve your fitness problems. Taking a supplement will burn body fat, build muscle. But the reality is we preach this time and time again on the podcast that diet, exercise, and lifestyle make up 98% of pretty much anything you're gonna get. The other 2% can come from effective supplements. And really only if you need these supplements. And then there's the overrated ones. These are supplements that are... Lots of people take them. They're on lots of different products. And they just don't do a whole lot. They don't do a whole lot at all. Well, and the first one that comes to mind for me is BCAAs. Branched chain amino acid. And this is a tough one. We have plenty of friends that have that sell and market branched chain amino acids. Can I sell BCAAs and make a case for them? Yes, I can. Yes, I can tell people that there is a place, there is a consumer where it may make sense to. The endurance athlete, the person who's training extremely hard and is doing double day workouts every day. And also having a hard time hitting their protein intake. That's the key right there. So the branched amino acids are leucine, isoleucine, and valine. They're essential amino acids, meaning you have to consume them because your body can't make them. Now they're found in high amounts in pretty much every complete protein source. So if you eat a piece of beef or steak, there's gonna be all the amino acids that you need, including the branched amino acids. If you have milk, if you have a vegan protein of some sort, tofu for example, or soy, you're gonna have branched amino acids in there. They are found in all complete protein sources. Now, by the way, branched amino acids isn't a new supplement. They've been around for a very long time and they tend to go through this cycle of popular and then not too popular. The first time I heard about them was in the 90s when I first started working out in lifting weights. Yeah, I took it when I was a kid. And they would use studies that were done on burn victims and people in hospitals. And what they found was in these studies that when they gave burn victims branched amino acids, they healed faster. And so they took that and said, this is a great recovery supplement. What are those the two examples? It was like burn victims and bodybuilders and they would always make an exception for a higher amounts of protein for those types of situations. Well, what they would do is in these studies, they were using them on people that were consuming very low amounts of protein. And because branched amino acids are essential, meaning they're very important, if your overall protein is low, supplementing with branched amino acids probably will yield you some benefits. In my experience, the only clients I've ever seen benefit from branched amino acids were my vegan clients whose protein intakes were very, very low. And I'm talking about clients who would consume 40 or 50 grams approaching a day and I'd have them take branched amino acid tablets before and after the workouts and they would notice a benefit. Other than that, and by the way, this isn't just our opinion, this is branched amino acids have been studied time and time again on athletes for building muscle recovery. And every single time when the athletes eat sufficient protein, the branched amino acids complete waste of money. So now how are they selling it today in terms of like your average person, gym goer, because I see a lot of these influencers are getting into the BCA thing where they're drinking it constantly throughout the day saying that they're gonna get gains that way. Well, the theory and the idea in the bodybuilding community and why all of them do it there is when you listen or you read the studies like Sal's referring to, some people interpret that like, okay, well, I'm in a caloric restrict diet. I'm cutting for a show for six to 10 weeks. And so my body's catabolic. And so I'm gonna take the BCAAs for muscle preservation. Yes, for muscle sparing reasons, I'm gonna take the BCAs in hopes that my body will burn that before it burns muscle. But what they're not realizing is that, and this goes for all competitors, most all competitors are not only eating adequate protein, they're eating 1.5, yeah, an excess amount of protein. I've never trained a competitor that didn't know the importance of protein and didn't consistently get their targets in every single day, even in a cut. That's the magical, the macronutrient. So if they're already hitting their targets for the magical macronutrient, even if they're in a cut and they're taking, it's a waste of money. Total, and now the question arises, okay, if my protein intake is low, do I benefit more from taking branch amino acids or do I benefit more from eating more protein? You benefit more from eating more protein. Branch amino acids are a terrible replacement for protein as well. Now you'll get some benefits because you have low protein and your body could use some more branch amino acids, but you're still better off just having more protein in your diet. Now one of the other ways that they sell it is they say, okay, branch amino acids, we know that they're important for building muscle. So why don't you just drink them all day long? Why don't you drink them all day long so you can have this constant flow of these important amino acids in your blood and your muscles will always build and they won't shrink. This is also totally false. You don't need to have a constant intake of protein or amino acids in order to preserve muscle or build muscle. The best studies we have show that maybe eating every four to six hours will maximize the rate of muscle growth. Anything more than that doesn't really do anything for you. And I want to say this, too many branch amino acids can actually cause competition for certain key neurotransmitters in the brain. High doses of branch amino acids might even cause some people to feel down or depressed or kind of tired. Not to mention that. Wouldn't you theorize too that you eventually would get desynthesized? Desynthesized. Sensitized. Thank you. They saved me there. You fucked me up too. Sensitized. Eventually, because you are eating so much protein, taking so much BCAs, I mean, one of the things that, and I think, I know Ben Pacolsky talks about it now, what other bodybuilder friends do I know that actually promote a fast or a protein fast at least once a week or throughout their diet? And one of the things that I experimented with when I was competing was doing these fasting days with athletes or competitors and myself. And I always noticed that when I actually reduced protein significantly for a day or fasted completely, when I reintroduced it, I felt like my body responded more to it. So my concern would be, or what I theorize is that these competitors that are not only getting their max protein to take all the time and then also taking BCAs, like they're getting like little to no benefit. In fact, they'd probably get a ton of benefit by completely reducing or eliminating for a day and then reintroducing. Yeah, too much all the time, all the time. Probably not, not super good. The body wouldn't adapt. Yeah, probably not super good. Why wouldn't it adapt like everything else? They actually have studies on that. They show that when people reduce protein, then bump it back up, that their protein synthesis rates tend to spike. I noticed that feeling as well. The other thing is this, is that because, and this is what markers have done now with branched amino acids, and it's brilliant. One thing I like observing about the supplement space is how brilliant they're able to market certain things. So what they've done is they've established that branched amino acids are a supplement for building muscle and for performance. So that's been established because we've been advertised branched amino acids for a long time. So we know that. Then brilliant supplement companies realized, hey, what if we made a really tasty drink? And then all we have to do is sprinkle branched amino acids in this and now we can call this a muscle building drink. Because tasty drinks have been around for a long time. Calorie-free, tasty drinks have been around for a while. We have diet sodas, we have crystal light and all that stuff. How do I make crystal light a body building and muscle building supplement? I know, let's sprinkle branched amino acids in. So what a lot of people do is they buy these drinks, they love the taste of them and then they think, oh, because it has Isoleucine and valine, this makes it a muscle building supplement. This is the same they've done with protein bars. It's really, you look at the macros and it looks the same as a candy bar. It just has more protein. Just more protein. Add protein, now it's healthy. That's so true, Sal, because there's a lot of bodybuilders that listen to the show and I still catch them doing that and that's their justification. They like the taste. Yeah, I like the taste and I'd rather be drinking that than drinking a soda or something. You're not only getting no additional benefit, you're probably spending more money. Spensive water. Yeah, you're better off with just drinking crystal light. And then like I said, like exactly, or like I said before, pay attention because you could be consuming so many amino acids that you're actually causing yourself to feel a little down because of the way that they can affect neurotransmitter production. You have to have a lot of them to do that, but that's still a possibility. But again, studies are conclusive. If your protein intake is relatively high, branched amino acid supplements are a complete and utter waste of money. They do nothing for- And relatively high, you need to be clear. Is it mean like high? About 0.6 grams to one gram of protein. What we recommend. Right, right, right. And that's where you'll get maximum benefits from protein. The next category is actually probably the biggest, most popular, highest selling category of supplements. And should've been number one. It promises everything in a pill. Yes. I mean, for the most part of what? Everybody's coming into the gym for. And what is that fat loss? That's it, fat burners. You know, and this fat burners have always been a bit of a top seller in the supplement space because of what they promise to do and because that's what everybody wants to do is lose weight. But in the 90s and early 2000s, you had fat burners that started including ephedra in their formulation. And they became blockbusters. Things like Xenodrin, remember Xenodrin? Xenodrin was huge. I know Hydroxycut sold something like $160 million a year on its own. This is when fat burners really went main, main stream. Before that, there was a fat burner. It was an appetite suppressant. It was sold to housewives. I think they called it dexadrin. Do you guys remember that? Dexadrin on TV or whatever. And it was a very similar formulation to what you see in fat burners now. It was a strong stimulant. But when the fat burners included ephedra, they exploded because you feel a fat burner when you take it. This is what makes it hard to convince people that fat burners will largely waste the money is that you definitely feel them. You take it and it's like, oh, I'm on something. This is definitely working. Well, because it affects your central nervous system. That's why. They're packed full of very strong stimulants. And studies show with some fat burners when they do six or 12 week periods that sometimes people do lose more weight that's on them. But you need to understand what's happening with the fat burner that causes it. The fat burner itself isn't burning more body fat. It isn't a magic fat burning compound. It's typically because it's a stimulant that causes you to not want to eat as much. So it's an appetite suppressant. Think about like twitching all day. Well, yeah, I would say that and move more. If people see results from it, it's the combination of the two of those. It's you with lots more energy and it's you having an appetite that suppress those two things. Now a lot of people will think, well, then cool, then okay, fine, I don't care how it works. I know it works. Let me try that. Here's the problem. There is a rebound effect when you go off of fat burners. Like all stimulants, caffeine being a stimulant, right? So when you drink coffee or you have an energy drink, you notice that you'll get a certain feeling from it. Drink that same drink every single day and you notice a very rapid tolerance buildup. What one cup of coffee did today, I need to have one and a half or two cups tomorrow to give me the same effect. It keeps increasing constantly. And over time, a short period of time with stimulants, you build up a tolerance very quickly. Over a very short period of time, you don't feel anything except for side effects. And you see this with people who chronically drink lots and lots of coffee. Over time, they just get the anxiety and they lose sleep over it, but they don't feel good anymore. This is because the body starts to adapt. So fat burners do this. So initially I have energy, appetite goes away, I build a tolerance. Now I'm taking them just to feel normal. Now I'm starting to feel a little shitty. Now I got to go off. Here's what you're left with. You're left with a body that adapted to strong stimulants that now is not getting those stimulants. So now you have a month of feeling like crap and a high appetite. And so what you see with people who lose weight with fat burners is they lose weight, gain it way, way back up. It's definitely a category. It's also a category of what I would consider the more dangerous supplements. Not saying that they're dangerous, just saying if you had to rank supplements in terms of risk. Well, I remember, you know, back when these like hydroxy cut and a lot of these brands kind of came out in the sports world. Like, you know, during the off season, a lot of athletes would mess with these things. And then we get into situations where there's heat exhaustion, you know, we're getting back into camp and they're dehydrated. And meanwhile they're still taking these like hydroxy cut and like fat burners and passing out in a couple of kids that died. So that's why a Federer got pulled. Yeah. A Federer got pulled because of a pitcher that was pitching like a, he was playing pitching like two games and a hundred hundred degree weather had popped a bunch of the Zenedran or hydroxy. One of the companies that was selling a Federer and he died. That was originally how it got pulled off the shelf was they had enough situations. They have a high abuse potential because they're stimulants. So like all stimulants, you feel like you need more and more and more of them. Not trying to scare anybody. I mean, to be quite honest, they're relatively safe compared to most things, but they aren't, they don't really help. And in fact, here's the thing, I'll give you some examples where they actually are terrible. When I'm training a client who is a high stress, not getting good sleep, type A type individual, the very last thing I wanna do is throw a very strong and CNS stimulant. It's always this client that's drawn to these. The client, the cortisol junkie, the one that's already hopped up on three or four cups of coffee a day that loves the pre-workout, that loves the energy drinks. And then on top of that wants to take a fat burner. And that's where this is, this is where this gets out of hand. It's rarely the person that may benefit from a little bit of the stimulus every once in a while. It's normally the people that are drawn to that are the worst people that should, at least in my experience, like when I had the clients that came to me that said, hey, I've got this or hey, I wanna talk about this, they're the same ones that I'm trying to lower stress, get caffeine out of their diet, focus on their sleep, and that's the worst thing they could do. Yeah, and I've actually had clients that were stubbornly would take fat burners and I'd noticed they would lose muscle as a result because stimulants cause stress hormones to rise. That's why you're stimulated, it's part of the reason why you get stimulated. They actually started to lose muscle as a result. So if you were to ask me how many times or how often I've ever recommended a fat burner, like to tell the client you should probably take a fat burner, less than three in my entire career. I've almost never, never, never, never recommended a fat burner. And again, the studies show long-term, they do nothing for you, but make you feel super hopped up and stimulated, which is why they're such big sellers. And not big sellers cause they're effective, they're big sellers cause you feel like. And it's just promising a dream. So the other type of client I'd get with it is somebody who was overweight and they thought that, you know, that was something to just throw into the mix on top of trying to, you know, fix their diet or everything else. Like that was gonna be like a whole another way to, you know, catalyze their progress going forward. Absolutely. Next category, didn't even exist when we were all in the big box gyms working out. It also, well, it was for me cause I was in there still when it first, I remember when it. I mean, before, I mean, we were there when it first came out. Oh yeah, yeah. It didn't exist before that. I was there for five years plus before this hit the market. And I remember when it did, fell in love with it, used it like crazy. And then I remember it breaking my heart when years later I read the study on it that explained that we, first of all, we don't even have the proof that an exogenous supplement like that can actually increase nitric oxide in your blood. So that kind of shit on my brain. And then two, that it has any direct connection with actually building muscle from that. So we're talking about nitric oxide boosters. Now, I remember the very first ones that came out and it was brilliant marketing again. They, you know, these supplement markers understood that one of the most prized feelings that people, again, by the way, if you're a sales person selling people on their feelings, is the most effective possible thing you could do. Supplement companies know this. When you lift weights, when you guys work out, what is your favorite feeling? The pump, dude. The pump. There's nothing better. It's like coming all the time. Yeah, that's what Arnold said in Pumping Iron, by the way. Just in case you thought Adam was being weird. No, but the pump is something that everybody seeks and enjoys and loves. And so supplement companies were like, wait a minute, what if rather than selling a supplement that builds more muscle, burns more body fat, what if we create a supplement that promised to give people a better pump? Let's tear everybody up. You know? And the market was brilliant. They would show before and after on these commercials. And the before and after was not a 30 day before and after. They actually said to you, this is Tony before the workout. This is Tony right after his workout and he's all pumped up. And it looks real dramatic because that's what it looks like when you get a pump and it worked. People loved it. And these supplements contain amino acids and things that contribute to the production of nitric oxide or the compounds that help prevent the degradation of nitric oxide. Nitric oxide, by the way, is a compound that relaxes blood vessels and improves blood flow. So the theory is boost nitric oxide, get more blood flow, get better pumps. We love pumps. Oh, pumps can make you build more muscle. By the way, the most effective nitric oxide boosting compound that there is are these erectile dysfunction. Oh, I thought I was gonna say blood doping. No, erectile dysfunction drugs like Viagra. The way Viagra works is it slows down or stops the breakdown of nitric oxide, thus giving you the ability to get an erection. Do these supplements improve performance, strength and build muscle? The vast majority of studies say no. No, they don't really help at all. They don't do much. There's some studies that show there may be some benefit at altitude. So if you're not accustomed to altitude and you take them, they can give you some benefit. Subjectively, do you get a better pump when you take nitric oxide boosters? I used to think so. And then I realized something. I used to drink drinks that were NO boosters right before my workout. Yeah, the sugar in them. And well, what I realized was that it would explode. Well, what I realized is I was drinking 16 ounces of water before my workout. Then I put that together and realized, wow, if I'm really hydrated. My favorite thing to teach this lesson to someone who loves their NO Explode is literally the, and I know I've given this tip on the show before, if you don't remember, make an effort to literally drink a half gallon of water relatively close to your workout. So sometime before your workout, if you work out at noon time, make it a goal to have at least a half gallon. I used to drink a half gallon through the workout. And it would make my pump so nasty, more than any supplement that I've ever taken before. So I think that more of what people are feeling from the pump is that they're drinking that extra 16 ounces of water, they're shaking, they're in an explode, plus they're drinking, they're probably thirsty too, from that high sodium drink that makes them want to drink more water. So they're pounding water on top of that. And that's where that pump feeling is probably coming from more than anything else. Now studies will show that certain compounds like citrulline, which is an amino acid that gets converted in the body to arginine, and then it gets turned into nitric oxide, does raise nitric oxide a little bit in the system, but that does not correlate to better performance or more muscle. So that's the thing. It's like, you don't wanna just look at what's happening here, you wanna look downstream, because ultimately the reason why you're taking a nitric oxide boosting supplement is to try to build more muscle. And in the grand scheme of things, they can be fun, you can enjoy taking them, not a problem, but are they gonna move the needle for you? This fell in the category of I'm just taking this because I think it does something. I had no idea what it did. Well, dude, nitric oxide boosting supplement didn't exist. Well, the theory that I had, or what I thought was true, and what I used to sell to people and tell people was that more oxygen, more blood, more nutrients equals bigger muscle. I mean, that was it. If I can give you a supplement that's gonna promote more oxygen flow, which is gonna promote more blood flow, which is that's how your nutrients are transported to your muscles, then it must be building more muscle that way. That was the idea. And the truth is what does that is a good diet, good sleep, and good hydration. Whether or not you take a few key amino acids and compounds really isn't gonna make that big of a difference or any difference at all. It actually doesn't make that big of a difference at all in terms of any of that stuff. So nitric oxide boosters, again, is there some value? Maybe a tiny bit, but again, super overrated. They're way oversold, not a big deal. All right, the next category, you know, this next category, there is some value to a small subset of the population, but to everybody else is a waste of money. These are testosterone boosting supplements. This is a touch, this is a touch you on probably for somebody to hear, and I think it's important that you preface it with what you kind of mentioned right there is there is a group of people. I would be an example of that. When I came off a testosterone and I went and did my blood work and then did the every well test and saw, like my testosterone levels were in the floor, abnormally low. So one of the things that I did during the recovery was I took a test booster. But what people don't understand is that if you already have normal testosterone levels for your body, normal levels, the testosterone booster doesn't put you above your normal ranges. So it's a waste of money for somebody who is already normal. If you're somebody who is 50 years older or even if you're in your 30s or 40s and you've tested and you have extremely low testosterone, there's value to it for that person. But what most people do is exactly what I did when I was 17 years old. Yeah, they're already healthy. Yeah, I was 17 years old taking these things. Thinking that, you know, because you think testosterone, steroids. Yeah, you think it's gonna be like over-the-counter steroids and it's like, no. And it's the most expensive typically in the whole store. Yeah. And so it's like, if I'm investing this, it must really work. And so that's the thought process. Well, here's the other thing though, is that men will take a testosterone boosting supplement and they'll notice a boost in libido. And they'll say, it's working, okay. Yes, there are herbs that boost libido. No, they don't raise testosterone. So like horny goatweed is an example of this. If your testosterone levels are normal, you're not gonna get a rise in testosterone. You may notice a boost in libido, but it doesn't mean your testosterone levels went up. So that's not necessarily a bad thing, but if you're thinking, I'm gonna raise my testosterone to build more muscle. It ain't gonna happen. Also, look at the percentages that the studies show that these things raise testosterone. Like 15%. Okay, so let's say your testosterone levels at 500. 15% boost is what? 575, you know? It's not nearly enough to cause any changes in muscle gain or strength. In fact, if you're somebody who takes anabolic steroids, the minimum dose that you take to see gains would be thousands of times over something like that. Well, and a good example too. I remember when you did the Everly Well test on your testosterone and I think you came around, I wanna say like 400 or 500 the first time, and that you were running the ketogenic diet, you changed, you introduced some carbs, switched some things up. And I boosted like crazy. Yeah, you shot like 400 points up. So that just shows you how, when you talk about the things that are higher priorities as far as sleep, stress, diet, and strength training, as far as boosting your testosterone naturally, those things are in a whole nother level in comparison. So if you're somebody who's dealing with all kinds of stress, your diet's all whack, and then you're turning around and you're spending $50 or more on a bottle of test boosters, what a waste of fucking money. Spend your time and effort getting better sleep or getting a better training program or focusing on your diet a little bit or minimizing just overall stress in your life that you'll get so much more bang for your buck. And again, the reason why people buy testosterone boosters is because they feel the boost in libido. But again, the boost in libido doesn't mean that your testosterone levels went up. Oftentimes it means testosterone stayed the same and it was something else. Here's the other thing. When you look at the studies on compounds that do raise testosterone in men with low testosterone when that population, the effect is not permanent. So I'll give you a great example. Ashwagandha, phenomenal adaptogenic herb, it does raise testosterone in men with low testosterone. Not a crazy amount, but they do notice a measurable rise in testosterone. If that man stays on Ashwagandha indefinitely, eventually it starts to lose its effect and the testosterone level start to drop. You may also notice this with the libido effect. In fact, if you've tried a testosterone booster and it boosted your libido, you probably noticed that after about 30 to 45 days or 60 days, it kind of stopped working. Like I don't have that boost anymore. But they promise a lot. You know, these testosterone boosters promise a lot. Like not only are you gonna raise your testosterone but you're gonna get the effects that anabolic steroids will provide. Nothing, there's no natural raising of testosterone that will cause the effects of what anabolic steroids would cause. So again, super, super overrated. All right, this next one, really popular, relatively recently, lots of promises. You're gonna offend all the wellness people. I know I am. And you know what's funny about this one is that this was actually considered a garbage junk product before they reversed it and flipped it and turned it into something. Now it's like so hot. Yeah, we're talking about collagen protein. Now collagen protein is protein that comes from collagen sources, you know, tendon, ligament, bone, what not. Nails. And they say supplement with this. It's gonna make your skin better. It's gonna make your hair better. Your nails better. It's gonna help your joints. And then they have studies to support this. They'll show the studies and be like, hey, people who supplemented in this study with collagen noticed, better skin, faster growing nails, better hair. But what they don't tell you is that in those studies, all those people had a very low protein diet so that they consume more collagen protein and then they got those effects. Guess what else happens when you take low protein people and put them on just more protein? Same thing. The same thing. Collagen protein back in the day was actually a garbage supplement. It was something that supplement manufacturers, they would put in their drinks and not tell you. Did we even get into this when we did the protein talk? We did, I think we did talk a little bit briefly. Did we talk about collagen? I can't remember if we did. I mean, right now I'm trying to think how we listed the highest like we did whey, we talked about concentrate, isolate, and then- Egg protein. Egg protein, where did we put collagen? We really didn't talk about collagen. I didn't think we did. No, we mentioned it, but we didn't talk. We didn't list it as one of the top proteins because it isn't. No. It's actually amino acid profile, it's rating is one of the lower proteins. If your protein intake is adequate, it's not gonna do anything for you. So it's not a supplement that's gonna add any extra benefit to a high protein diet. If you wanna, if you let's say your protein intake is good, but it could be higher, will you get better benefits from supplementing with let's say a whey protein or egg protein over collagen? You will. Those protein sources have higher quality, better amino acid profiles for everything from performance to muscle building. Now, is collagen protein bad? No, it's not gonna hurt you. Here's what I like about collagen protein, it's flavorless. If you like to add protein to something and it doesn't taste like- I do like it for that reason. And there's a reason why it's five on our list and not one or two. It's, I mean, of all the things that we listed, it's the least most overrated of the five, right? But it still is. I mean, if you're going to be taking in adequate protein, it is a waste of money, you're completely fine there. If you're on, if you have low protein and you're gonna choose to take it, you're even better off taking a different type of protein. Recent study just came out that showed that you need to eat far more collagen protein to equal the effects of lower amounts of better quality proteins. In other words, and this is my, I'm just throwing out numbers, you would have to eat let's say two grams of collagen protein for every one gram of whey protein because it's amino acid profile wasn't great. And that's because all protein sources aren't equal, some are better than others. And no joke, this is a 100% objective fact. Collagen protein of all of the animal sources of protein is at the bottom. It's actually one of the worst sources of protein. Well, and, you know, to your point that you made earlier that I think is so important to reiterate is that this was something that was thrown away for so many years. It wasn't like new science came out and we found out that it's like, it's like, oh. It was new marketing. Yes, we found a way to market it to people. And that is why it's become popular again is because for someone who's selling it, you can buy it for relatively cheap in comparison to whey protein or whey isolate or your vegan protein. You can get it for like cents on the dollar in comparison. So if I can just convince people that it's of great value, like the other types of proteins, then I can make a shit ton. There's better margins. It's got, okay, so do you know what has collagen protein? Jell-O, that's why Jell-O's got, that's why it becomes firm or whatever. It's actually collagen protein. Collagen protein is relatively flavorless. So when they said, hey, you can add this to your coffee, it's a great protein for that because you can throw it in there. It doesn't taste like anything, but the coffee and whatever you put in there, butter or MCT oil or whatever they do. Sneak it in there. Yeah, so it doesn't have flavor. Again, it's low quality and it's the marketing. The word collagen, right? We know collagen is in skin and you want your skin to look good. Put it in your lips. We know it's in your hair. Oh, and collagen in your joints. And so people make that comparison. And so it was an easy thing to sell, but it's largely a waste of money. And if you're going to increase your protein intake with a protein, some kind of a protein supplement, your best options don't include collagen. You're looking at either whey protein, egg protein is really good, and your mixed vegan sources are even really good. Collagen by itself, totally, totally overrated, overpriced. And I would say almost a complete waste of money. And with that, go to mindpumpfree.com and download all of our guides, resources, and books. They're all totally free. You can also find the three of us on Instagram. You can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin, me at Mind Pump Salon, Adam at Mind Pump Adam.