 Aloha. Welcome to Think Tech Hawaii's Movers, Shakers, and Reformers. I'm your host, Carl Kimpanya. There's a lot to talk about from a lot of different areas. We've all heard and those of us who've been reading the papers or watching TV shows, we know there's a lot going on in Washington. We know there's a lot going on that mirrors what's going on in Washington here in Hawaii. For example, the questions of transparency and accountability, how things are being done, who is doing them, and behind what doors are they being done. And those are huge topics of conversation. And it's wonderful, actually, if you think about it from that perspective, that there's so much attention and so much scrutiny on what's being done and how it's being done. That's what a democracy is about. And that's what this democracy is supposed to be intended to do is make sure that these conversations can be had in all ways at all levels with all people. So with that in mind, there's a number of thoughts and a number of sources that I think it's important that we consider. One of those sources is my guest today, and I'm putting her on the spot a little bit, but she's my friend, her name is Rachel James. She's been on ThinkTech before and other areas specifically energy related. But she is a UH law student. And there's a lot of topics and a lot of groups that they have where they get together and discuss various bits and pieces of what is going on today, what is actually happening. And I think that's an important perspective to try to get from a law student how they process, if they process, but within their classrooms or within or with one another, how they come together and discuss some of these pertinent and relevant issues that are happening today. Anything from our current, from the travel ban and what our AG did and what conversations they have and what they think that means for them onto the, I guess, the Senate and the House Intelligence Committees. I mean anything that they discuss. So with that let me welcome to the show, Ms. Rachel James. Thank you, Carl. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. No pressure about anything. This isn't to find out how much you know about any of these one things. It's to find out, from a law student's perspective, what is being talked about and how is it being pursued or explored within your current education system, if it is. And that's I just want all of us to be thinking about it from a lot of different perspectives. So I'm trying to bring in a lot of people for that. So thank you again for joining us. Oh, thank you for having me. So first of all, start, let's start here. Okay. Tell us a bit about yourself. You're a law student now, but what are some of the things that you have done? What are you doing? Start right there. How'd you get here today? We could be here for hours. So I'll just be brief. So yes, I'm a second year law student at Richardson. Full disclaimer, I'm a part-time evening program student. So we call ourselves Night Walkers. Not to say that we're super different from the Day Walkers, but most of us are full-time employees someplace or do something in our daytime that doesn't include going to school. So when I speak on behalf of my experience at the law school, it's really reflective of many of the Night Walker experiences. I think that's just important to understand that. Let's just look at that for a minute. And I wasn't intending to jump in, but I didn't realize there was a difference. So maybe this is from multiple programs, but certainly in the law school. And the law program, there are night students and there are day students. And it's a full program in both? Yes. So the part-time evening program is a four-year program, and the full-time program is a three-year program. Both after completion, you'll have a JD. Excellent. And you're two years into what is a four-year program? Yes. Well, I'm nearing the end of my second year. Okay. So anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry. I just wanted to break that out of it. So yes, I'm a student in that program, a Night Walker. And I also work full-time at Hawaii Center for Advanced Transportation Technologies with Stan, the energy man. Stan, the energy man. We all love Stan. We do. We love Stan. From the energy perspective, we know that he is doing a lot of great work, and we really, really appreciate what he does and how you help him as well. So anyway, so you work with him at H-Cat? I do. I work with Stan. You get to ride with his little H-Cat car? We just got an H-Cat car. You just got an H-Cat car? We did. That's that could be a part of another discussion anyway. But yeah, so I do that. And I do some volunteering in the community. So my background, educationally speaking, kind of started in business, did some accounting work, and then progressed into sustainability with HPU, and then that and work in the community with homeless issues, and just with sustainable systems, generally speaking. Okay, what makes a system sustainable? A system that is sustainable is one that acknowledges its pieces and understands how to utilize those pieces effectively and efficiently. For an ongoing cycle? For an identified goal. So I don't know that all sustainable systems necessarily need to go on in perpetuity. I think we speak of sustainability in that way, but a system can be sustainable for a purpose. Okay, and that is that an area from your law degree that you're pursuing at the moment? Is that something that is part of that? Or is it different? Okay, I like this. So I believe that sustainability really shouldn't be secluded to you pursue sustainability in some realm. I think to have successful sustainability, it really should permeate everything that you do. So yes, in my pursuit of a legal career, sustainability is at the forefront. But I think for sustainability to be successful, like my challenge is to also make sure that others view sustainability as an imperative piece of their professional or personal development. Okay, so in that context, sustainability can fit within any industry, any organization. It's not just an energy related fit. That is correct. Okay, well, I think that's a fascinating thing to do itself. We could do a whole show on that, I think. We could, we could in the future. So okay, next time. All right, so you so okay, so you have you've been involved in some business and some accounting, you have brought yourself into your law degree, which you're about to be two years into. And that's all wonderful. There's a lot of energy stuff related and sustainability. Excellent. What do you see for yourself? As far as once you get this degree, what is it that you are hoping? What is the next step? So because it's two years away. So it's a lot I know it's I mean, you got to plan at least five years out, right? Yeah, hopefully. Yes. Well, yeah, we'll put that out there for the audience to think about at least five years out when you're planning. Yeah, some idea. But so for me, because of my working energy and sustainability, so my angle in sustainability has been social sustainability. I think if you have a system or society that that highlights itself as being sustainable, but you have people who fall out of that in large numbers, and if those numbers increase, then that system or society really isn't sustainable. Social sustainability, please define that a bit more. Sure. I understand that a bit more. Very plainly speaking, if you have a society that you would claim to be sustainable, but either people are unhappy, they're underfed, they're malnourished, they're homeless, like if you have people that would check off the boxes of discontent in larger numbers as years progress, then I would say that that society does not have social sustainability. So from a sociology perspective, there's a tipping point. I'm not a sociology major. So no, certainly not. But that's, but that's a societal. So if you're talking what you're talking about is okay, if we've got 4.9% unemployment, those people are probably unhappy, at least many of those people are probably unhappy. In addition to that, there's another percentage of people who are just getting by. But they're missing this or missing that maybe it's missing healthcare or a number of things that are not available to them. So they're also not happy for a number of social reasons. And as that number increases, is when this delves back into the political forum there, as that number increases, is when you've got the masses who have decided that a change is necessary, we need to address this in a new way, right? So my question there is, there would perceivably or conceivably be a tipping point when the number of people who are unhappy overcomes the number of people who are happy such that a change is made to address the unhappy. Presumably. I don't that's not a question I think you can answer. But I think that what I'm hearing from you, this is that's what comes to mind. Okay. That's an important way of understanding, I think, how we are perceiving how we're seeing all this stuff happen. From last year's election, the amount of energy that has been focused on making sure that there's a resistance to what we fear. And that's an important thing to understand is what we fear from this administration. There's been this huge energy and so therefore the number of people who are discontent has at least if it's not been growing, it's been much more apparent. So from a from a sustainability perspective. How would you so I am jumping into this for you a little bit, but this is what you're studying from a sustainability perspective. What do you see? How do you see or how do you assess from a societal sustainability perspective? Where we are right now? Is there is there a way for you to explore that thought right now? Sure. I mean, everybody has an opinion, right? I don't necessarily know that what my perception is is reflective of an overall understanding of what is, but you're a law student. So it's a law student perspective. It is it is Rachel the part time evening program law student perspective. Like there's a number of other qualifiers there, but we'll start at least with that disclaimer. Rachel James is all I need to know. Okay, well, okay, from the mind of Rachel James, here it is. I feel like we're in a in a space where there is indeed good energy, good meaning that there's consistent sustained energy. What that will translate to I'm standing by. So I think particularly as related to politics, people's upset and discontent with our federal election is important. But to be able to capture that momentum and that interest and engagement and have that translate to local elections is really important. And I think we won't really see how how impactful this energy will be until we see how we've been able to harness that energy. I'm not going to get all super energy wonky, but just to see how how how we're able to deploy that momentum. And so if we see broad sweeping changes in our local elections for places that really need to have some changes, I think that will be an early indicator of just how much strength there is in that movement. I agree. And I know that from what I understand, I want to say I know from what I understand, that's a big topic of conversation. All these little groups that are out there from women's market to j20 to indivisible to dozen others. Right. Their question is, Yeah, we've got all this energy. What do we do with it? So this is a great segue I'm going to interrupt just a minute because so recently I met with a student who has been helping to forward the j20 movement with UH Manoa students from different campuses, or from different schools rather but mainly on UH Manoa campus. And one of the things we discussed was, with all this momentum, we're recognizing a lack of civic understanding. So just basic kind of what your branches of government are what their responsibilities are, like what your local and federal government kind of bodies of concern are what are their areas of responsibility. So wanting to engage in the process but really being at a loss of who to speak to and what am I supposed to say and what are realistic expectations. And so she and I and a number of others have been trying to figure out how do law students who it is our business to know the law, how do we engage with these groups to not necessarily inform them to sway them in a particular direction, but to really arm them with an understanding that can most impact whatever the initiative they're pursuing. And that is an excellent yes, we're going to jump on that we have to take a quick rake already, see how quickly they showed us. Too hard with that. No, that was spectacular. No, that's exactly the direction because I agree with you. Okay, we have to take a quick rake. So thank you for joining us. This is Think Tech Hawaii's Movers, Shakers and Performers. I'm your host, Carl Kampanya. Thanks again to our guest, Ms. Rachel James and we'll be back in one minute. Thank you. Okay, so I'm Crystal, if you haven't been to the Quark Talk before, you better do it because you're missing out on all the information. We talk about sex, we talk about religion, we talk about everything and nothing. So we've got two gentlemen here going to validate that, right? Greg Kinkley and Roy Chiu. What's your take on this important sense of talking about these issues? It's very important. It's through, I think, expressing ideas and exchanging ideas that we come to a better understanding of the world and each other. And without that, we live in ignorance and fear. Fear is based on ignorance. Amen. Amen. What could I say about that? Something in English. I think... Go and listen to Quark Talk to see the warnings. Aloha and Happy New Year. It's 2017. Please keep up with me on Power Up Hawaii, where Hawaii comes together to talk about a clean and just energy future. Please join me on Tuesdays at one o'clock. Mahalo. Right. As much as possible. I agree. So here we go. Thank you. Thank you for coming back. This is Think Tech Hawaii's mover, Shakers and Reformers. I'm your host, Carl Campania. Again, welcome, Ms. Rachel Jam. So yes, we were just talking about that very topic of how do we sustain this energy? So as you've been focusing on sustainability and societal sustainability and all aspects of what sustainability might be, that ends up being a perfect topic of conversation for us to really take into this political realm of we've got all these groups, as was mentioned, more than we even know and can name, I think at this point, windward resistance and you name it. There's so many groups that get together that are trying to find a way to engage. And more and more what we're learning or what I'm hearing from some people is there's a lot of people that want to be engaged. They don't know how to be engaged. They don't know what to do. They assume that there's a thing. They assume that, oh, I need to go do this and I need to know what to write and somebody needs to tell me what a what sign what do I write on my sign? Right. The answer to that is, what do you feel? What do you want? What is it? What does it you want to say? Right? I think it's part that. So from my perspective as a law student, it's important for people to be not only aware of the issues but understand processes and not so much so that you fall in line and follow, you know, and march the beat of somebody else's drum. But really, so if you're pushing against something, you really know what you're pushing against. So if you're fighting for something because you have this feeling that you either dislike what's happening or if you're fighting for something because you really feel positively about something moving forward. If you don't really have an understanding of what you're resisting of the systems that are in place that keep you wherever you are, I think that that battle is going to be that much more challenging and the time between your action and effect can be, I don't want to say delayed by that ignorance, but it will certainly impact. Yes, and I think that actually we're seeing that on the federal level right now. We're seeing that all of this misunderstanding of how the process works now sits in the primary seat in our White House. Yes, that's a perfect example. And when you do executive orders and you're like, Hey, I think, sorry, I hope I'm not getting no, please jump on jump on when you say as president, Hey, this is going to happen and like Hawaii, what do you mean you're filing a lawsuit? Yeah, what are you doing? What what we're doing is exercising the process that our forefathers established exactly so that people don't come and be tyrants. Exactly. And so I think awareness of that, like I'm really proud of Hawaii for making that step because I think it heightens the awareness of really the impact of law and how people can use that for good. It's also been you talk about civic engagement and civic understanding. I've said many times on the show and otherwise that we actually are at one of those moments in time, like the Civil Rights Era and the Revolution in war period, where there is more more people are engaged and more people are aware and learning what this process is then has in the interim. Yes. And I think that's a wonderful thing because because what will happen is as a result of what we're I think I think what we're already seeing is that Donald Trump that refused to pivot to the center. I think he's just been demonstrated why pivoting to the center is the only way to accomplish anything. And I think that's what he has just learned and we'll see how he continues with that process, maybe in one issue versus another. But I think that that's an important point as far as that engagement and learning the processes and learning the systems. So OK, tell me from again, from your not just perspective but experience, you get together with other students. Sometimes you have you have different forums. You're telling me off that you have forums that you have. Is this part of this forum or are there you have multiple forms that you get together with? So the law school is really great. Some I'm really, really grateful to be at Richardson because it's a law school that values social justice and it encourages its students to be engaged in their communities. And I don't necessarily know that all all schools really focus on that, nor do they encourage people to really think about how the law can apply to things that are important to them. So Richardson is really good about providing opportunities for students to engage through like law clinics with community organizations. Oh, wow. Then they're also good about the professors and faculty support having visiting speakers come in from really around the world to speak about what they've done in their communities and how what they've learned or what their systems of law mean for the US system of law for Hawaii law. And so one of my professors, Professor Yamamoto, he has been a long time civil rights advocate. Yes. I know. I admit him. Okay. I like him. I admire him and his work is really phenomenal. But he recently had so he works with students who are I'm probably going to get the title wrong, but essentially they're like advocates in training. And so he uses his experience over a number of years working on cases like with the Japanese internment of Japanese Americans during World War Two. He uses those experiences and his connections and the legal professionals he worked through those processes to really inform the students today of the impact of Supreme Court decisions and what that translates to for real life applications and actually what people that's what I that's what I love about that. So OK, thank you. I really appreciate hearing that our law program here at UH is not just teaching you this is what the law is memorize this and move on. It's it considers that it encourages you to consider the application of these laws. I think that's a wonderful thing. I don't know. I mean, perhaps we could just do a whole show on what that what you do and what the law school is. And I would love to bring in, you know, the the higher ups and that they run the program to really learn that program to. But. I think too often we don't really understand number one, the process and number two, what the repercussions and consequences are what we do. That last piece is probably the most important. I think when we have people who are contributing to the formation of our society, so both in legislation and policy and administration, when there is a disconnect between what they are planning and the utopia that they are hoping for and how that actually impacts people on the tail end. That disconnect can be detrimental. And so I believe that people who serve in those positions generally go into it with with benevolence. I don't think people really come into those positions with an intent to destroy society. But I think the disconnect between how longstanding policy and administrative decisions and legislative actions, how those things impact people in their day to day lives is important on both ends. So it's important for me as a constituent to know, because when things go wrong, I need to be able to point to something and say, hey, you implemented this thing and I know you meant to help me. But these are all the ways that it really kind of messed me up. Exactly. So, so OK, so I think that's wonderful. First of all, that you guys in your program. Try to consider those things. How do we get those thought processes? And that's so OK, this whole thing is just about we have this travel ban that happened and we've had travel ban 1.0 and 2.0 and both have been shut down through the process. And it's through understanding the process and it's through understanding what our constitution is and what the laws are and how it's supposed to work. Because it's about the impact on people. Same thing now. What was a wonderful thing was with the health care and they wanted to repeal Obamacare as much as some of it needs to change and as much as you know as many problems as there are with it. What was amazing was the number of people who showed up and this is what we're learning. What more and more people are learning is how you engage the process. Right, right. How you stand up and say I don't agree with this. And as a result of that, that didn't happen. That repeal didn't and replace didn't happen because people are learning how to engage and they're knowing and they're learning that I can go join this group or that group or the group and this is how we have our voice heard. Is this so the question goes back to how sustainable is this how realistic can this be to make sure that this level of social justice. Awareness at the very least is maintained again. You don't have an answer that question. You can't have an answer that question. But this this goes back. This is the fact that we are relegating issues from 50 years ago at the moment means that there needs to be a continuity. So the continuity is the law and we can say that we've fallen on different sides of that. We as kind of the collective and we as a Supreme Court or we as the United States have fallen on various sides of the law. But the fact that we have that record that we have that constant to reference back to to say hey you didn't make a really good decision here. Don't redo that or you made a really bad decision and these are all the reasons why these subsequent decisions really go against that decision there. But let's let's make it final and concrete and just say that we are going to like we're just going to disown this decision. I think the constant is the law and people and law students will speak about it different ways. They'll talk about textualists and realists and how people interpret the constitution whether it's living or if it's a static thing. But the fact is is that has been a thing that has remained throughout our history. And so as a reference point. But it's the interpretation of it. The interpretation that's the variances. Yes. And and I'll just to jump into this briefly. That's the very same thing. And we're not going into this direction fully. But I just immediately notice that's the very same thing that we have with the Bible. How we interpret what's said and how it's said with. And then how we utilize that. So when it comes to our constitution. And when it comes to all of the laws that have come through how we interpret them from a state to state from a district to district perspective. And what are those ramifications for the people. And how how do we have that. How do we apply these laws to people. And and the impact of these people. And how do we make sure that conversation is happening. You do this. We try to have this conversation. No you don't try you do. There is no try. There is only to. But really I mean you have conversations with people. But you give people the space to speak about their own experience. So if there's a person who is ignorant of the law you don't discount what they have to say because they don't understand the process. You listen to their experience and what they what they have had happened to them or what they've seen happen to their peers or colleagues or siblings or whomever. And you say if you have an awareness of the law. You know this piece of legislation this Supreme Court decision this you know district court decision like whatever your knowledge is if you have something that can inform their understanding of what they've experienced. That's a step in the right direction of bringing awareness. So that doesn't mean that you're going to turn somebody and they're going to be your ally and you guys are going to rally for change all of a sudden. That does mean that they recognize an opportunity to engage and we have to take responsibility ourselves to see if we're going to go through that discomfort of like do I want to be photographed at that rally or not like oh gosh it's bad but it's not that bad or we're going to say yeah we're going to wear our I almost said the P word on that I'm sorry we're going to wear a P cat and show up in places. So really but just having awareness one of what's happening in community who's doing it and how that impacts you. So one of the things that I am asking and we'll be asking people to do as we go forward with all of this is is to talk to your neighbors. Yeah. Go out and knock on doors in your community. I would caveat. Listen to your neighbors. That's a better way of saying it. I don't know that it's better but I would first of all just add in and listen to your neighbors. No I don't a lot of talk in these days. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. So yes I will abdicate for door knocking to listen and to learn. And to talk with. So that we can better understand each other. Because the people have been talking about for a generation now almost generation now the Internet has helped put walls up in some areas where in other areas perhaps it has knocked them down. One of those walls is our neighbor and we live in little silos and sometimes we know our neighbors and depend on who we are and how much we engage with our neighbors but we need to more. We do we need to hold our elected officials accountable and ask for community meetings ask for forums ask for talk stories. Absolutely. Conveen. Exactly and bring those conversations to the people who need to hear it. Bring the issues that are happening the bills and the resolutions that are being passed heard or not heard in our legislature to the communities and say this is what has been happening. I'm not sure that you're aware of it but by the way and what do you think about that. Shameless plug. My representative is great. Balotti she sends out these newsletters keeps us informed. They all send out newsletters they all send out newsletters and this is you know I tell has been great and I have had I've been a huge supporter of her in a number of ways as well. I'm not going to sit here and just go off a list and bash anybody. Oh no I just lived there so I just wanted to but no absolutely but I look at it from the perspective of we a newsletter is one thing a newsletter is not this. I can't listen to you if I'm telling you through a newsletter something. So where are the town halls. Where are the talk stories. Where I just get to hear or you just get to hear from them directly and more importantly they get to hear directly from us. I'm tired of getting the newsletter newsletter that has here's three questions. Please respond to these questions and send it back to me and therefore that's how they're getting my feedback. That's not how it should work in my opinion anyway but that's that's off topic of that is a topic for another show. So thank you so much for joining us this shows over already there's still so much to talk about so much so not appreciate it always appreciated a good perspective a new perspective all perspectives are good. So thank you so much again so thank you for joining us this is think tech wise movers shakers and reformers. I'm your host Carl Timpanya thanks to the staff the crew everyone here and again to our guest Rachel. See you next time.