 And God said, Behold, I've given you every herb-bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in the witch is the fruit of a tree-yielding seed. To you, it shall be for meat." Yeah, now, we've got to say something great. You've been getting some crown of inspiration. Oh, I know. We're just, we're just, you know, everything's kind of under our control. I guess. Oh, dominion. I mean, like, dominion. Yeah, that's the word. Do you think dominion we have over children too, like? Well, no, you're not allowed to kill children. But do you think dominion means automatically to kill it and slaughter it? No, no, dominion means to protect and to take care of, like, look for trees down and grow a crop, you know? Like, um, like, take care, like, be the guardians and take care of... Yeah, that's it. Yeah, take care of the planet, that's it, of its creation. You know, we kill 150 billion animals every year. Yeah, yeah. Slaughter them, torture them, put them in slaughterhouses. We do have to eat, but that's... Do you think we could eat an option like a fruit or a vegetable? Well, the body needs protein, but you can get protein in a certain range. What if you can get protein from a plant source that doesn't... you don't have to have a slaughterhouse or a gas chamber? Yeah, no, I see what you're saying, though. Like, with God, right? Yeah. Because I believe in the Creator too. Yeah, yeah. And do you think that He would think that slaughterhouses are okay? Jesus was God in the flesh, right? And He did eat meat, you know, all the time. He's talking about the fish? He didn't eat meat. He ate fish. Do you think Jesus would agree with the slaughterhouse? You're okay with fish? You're okay with fish? No, no, no, no. No. Fish fill pain and they suffer. They want to live. Like, they escape pain. They don't want to fish hook in the mouth. They suffocate. Yeah, we've got nervous system. That's it. Yeah, yeah. So, in our hearts, we see the animal suffering and we think, like, why would we put an animal through suffering when we can choose bread or fruit? As you see, you're pushing something. You don't understand this, but I'm looking more at eternal matters, you know? I'm more worried about where our spirit ends up. We have spirit. Wow. You believe in the same thing, essentially, right? Me too. You probably are on the same page. I believe in the Creator too. I don't think a big bang... I think big bang's a joke. So, have a look at this, you know? We exploded from... It's all put together, isn't it? It's all put together. I honestly don't think that an all-loving God would think that slaughterhouses are a place of... He does say, I'll kill, but that is related to murder. But who told you that? Because God in the flesh, you know, Jesus, who died for our sins, he ate me. Now, if God was against eating me, he wouldn't have ate me, you know? But you know, in the Garden of Eden, God gave his plant-baring seed. He had a calf when his prodigal son came home. They killed the calf. What about the youth familiar with that seed-baring plant in the Garden of Eden? God gave his seed-baring plant. That shall be our meat. Yeah, everything, yeah, true. Before sin entered the world, everything was laid off, that's true. Okay, so why should we continue sinning? Why not go back to the Garden of Eden? Oh, I can't answer everything. No, no, no. I can't tell you. No, no, no. What does your heart say? He gave you the God-given gift of wrong and right. What does your heart say? About animal, about eating animals. About why don't we eat plants that he gave us too, and that don't suffer? What would your heart say? Well, a gut's kind of made to eat both, isn't it? It'll handle that kind of thing. Okay, if you look at that and your conscience says that's not good, what's God telling you? Yeah, I don't have a problem with eating. I don't eat pigs. I think pigs are a dirty animal in here. They kind of got it. I'm a farmer by trade. I don't care a bit about animals, but pigs don't sweat, or they can pull their toxins in. So if you eat bacon, you're getting all the crap. Yeah, yeah. The thing that the body couldn't get rid of. So yeah. Well, pigs eat everything. Well, you throw dead sheep into pigs. They'll eat everything. If you want to get rid of someone who feeds them to the pigs, you know? Oh, he'll do that. Because there's like nothing left here. I like it. We're not talking about it from our point of view. We're talking about it from the victim's perspective. I don't like it. The pig doesn't want to be eaten. I don't like killing animals, either. You know, I don't like it. Why not? If we're meant to eat them, if God said eat animals, he shouldn't have made them so they suffer and so that we feel weird about it. Exactly. Why would he do that? He's not an idiot, man. Yeah, I know. But when he himself is eating meat, I believe that endorses it. But he calls the seed-bearing plant meat as well. In the garden, yeah, yeah. That is the thing you can't answer, right? No, I can't. You don't really have a... No, I don't have an answer. I'm not going to act like an old because God knows everything. I don't. But that's why he gave you the gift of knowing wrong and knowing right, so you can navigate yourself through these issues. God might contradict himself. He's God in the flesh, ate fish, made with Jesus, feed the five thousand... There was something called fishweed back in those days. Fishweed. It was seaweed, bread and fishweed. I've heard that, too. There has been translation issues with the Bible. I remember he fed five thousand people with the... Fishweed and bread. ...with the little boy who brought the fish and the fish along and fed everybody. He's a supernatural modifier. God does that. So from your perspective, right? Yeah. Do you think that God would be okay with slaughterhouses in destroying a planet, destroying all his creations? Let me put it to you this way. The world is busy at the moment redefining right and wrong. I just yelled it out there a minute ago. Abortion is a far bigger problem than this. Killing people, you know. How many babies get aborted each year? How many animals are getting killed every second? How much more precious is a person, too? The crown of God's grace. God said he gave man a spirit, but he didn't give the animals a spirit. But all of his creations... I'm not debating just because he says that. But all of his creations would be deed to his heart. I mean, why would he create animals that suffer if we're meant to kill them and eat them? Well, you know, as you said about the garden, the original intention of God was for no one to suffer. And that's where suffering comes from. We should go back to the garden where there was no sin. We can do that in our lives now. In the Christian tradition, what we have is a Jesus who is the Prince of Peace. And it's important to remember where that comes from. It comes from the prophet Isaiah. And the Prince of Peace in Isaiah 11 is ushering in God's new age of non-violence. If we read Isaiah 11, the holy mountain is filled with the knowledge of the Lord, where even the lion lies down with the lamb and there is no bloodshed whatsoever. We can't because we're in a fallen body. The world isn't... Well, we can do our best. You do believe we can do our best if we don't have to eat cruelty and suffering and violence? What I would recommend to you, and what happened to me 20 years ago, get a relationship with God. I have been developing my relationship with God. And he's given me strength to come back to him broken and scream out to him, you know, because that's what he does. It's not church. He saved me, took me straight out of church. Because church is a lie. So do you eat animal stuff? I'm a farmer by trade. But it's a lie. Oh, because it tastes nice? No, that's a shallow answer. No, no, that is... You know, I was talking to a religious guy last week and he said the same thing. He said, I said there's a lamb in the middle of the room. Jesus on one side, the devil on the other. There's a dagger in your hand. I said, who's telling you to kill the lamb? Other instances are Christ's condemnation of animal sacrifice at the temple in Jerusalem. No, no, no. Why not? There's always good and evil. There's the devil. And there's God. Spiritual force. Who's telling you to kill the lamb? Yeah. Well, Jesus... No, no, no. Who do you think is telling you to kill the lamb? The lamb is, like, not there in my eyes. Like, I don't... So what do you care about in terms of women being or do you care about humans? I care about people's internal besties. We are eternal. Oh, yeah, I do. I care more about the babies that have been murdered. I care more about that. Right. So you just care about... You don't really care about humans. Well, I care about... Well, God gives me the guidelines here. He ate fish, he ate meat. What about dogs? Oh, here's a good one. What about dogs? Did you kill a dog? Have you got pets? I have shot a dog before. I didn't like it. No, I had to. It didn't feel good. No, the dogs attacking the sheep. Yeah. So you had to. Well, that's not murder. To stop the cruelty to the sheep, you know what I'm saying. But then you go and eat the sheep. Oh, no. So what is that? You're going against your natural instinct. They're ripping the throats here, you know. But when we... Look at that, dude. Yeah. Come on, bro. There is... That is not God-loving. I know, but there is... But is that God's work? Oh, no. Well, God said don't eat pig anyway. So that's not even... But do you think that... Do we pig something? No, no, no. Oh, yeah, yeah. But do you think you can still believe in the Word of God and be a Christian? Yeah. But still straight, like, make your own decisions on things that you don't have to do anything? This is not a salvation issue, as such, you know. Okay. It's just like a... It's a conscious thing before God, I believe. Wow. When he said don't kill, He ate fish, he ate meat, but I do believe in humanely killing. I treat my animals as humanly as I can. But how do you humanely kill someone that doesn't want to die? God forbid. We were discussing that before. It's not really humanly. Quickly. You know, that doesn't want to die. Yeah, it doesn't really want to die. We've said that before. Do you kill your own animals? I mean, okay, let's take it to the extreme, you know, it's an ant, then I tread on it, you know. Oh. Did you do it on purpose, though? Yeah, we don't believe in it. Yeah, probably. We probably do that, too. But you're just going to get panicked. Okay, but if you're defending yourself, if you're defending... But when you draw the line between, you know, the fly and kill like that... Well, if you were under attack... But what if they were... No, but what if they were... If you're under attack, then you can defend yourself. That's what we're saying. I mean, what if the flies were that big in your house that it was unhealthy for your children? But are the chickens... Oh, yeah, I'm just trying to... But are the chickens... I'm being facetious. I'm trying to say, there is a time that we need to kill something, you know. But not like this. No, but when I spot a fly, I don't pluck one wing off and then the other. No. I just go... There's no need for that. No, there's no need for that. I agree with that. I'm going to leave him with Joey now. Pleasure, mate. All the best. Nice to talk to you about it. Joey knows that. Thank you. I'll get him back to the boys anyway. No worries. But yeah, he gave us conscience. As conscience, he did. Wrong or right? If you look at that and that goes, that's not good, then who's... I agree. I think that he's talking to us, telling us. I've seen farmers, you know, starve. The killing them to me is kind of... That's quick and... They're going to die anyway, you know, we all are. But that's quick and clean, it doesn't harm an animal, you know. It doesn't let it have a drink of water. That's worse. All these animals are treated unfairly. Farmers can be cruel as well as meatworks, you know what I mean? Farmers send all their animals to the same slaughterhouse. Yeah, okay. Is this Australian footage? Or obviously... This is Australian footage. Is this TFI? Or who are these people? Which slaughterhouse, you know? This is Australia-wide. Some of them are out of late here. Some of the pigarees are here in South Australia. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's it. There's no loophole around whether it's going to be humane or not. I just don't think... This is your passion. And this kind of matters, but in eternity, eternal destiny is so much bigger deal, you know? Heaven, hell, we're playing for keeps here. Yeah, maybe this is something to do with it. Maybe this means something. By being good, you don't get this. Just by being forgiven. But once you become his child, he guides you in a long discussion. That doesn't give us the right to go out and just slaughter. No, it doesn't. No, no, that's it. You know what I mean? There's still wrong and right. Well, I agree, you know. Morality, there's... Tell me whatever, but I can't kill my own sheep and eat them, you know. Yeah, because it's not natural. God didn't make us like that. No, that's it. You pick an apple, you eat it, it's sweet, it's tasty, you want it. You haven't killed anything, that's it. Yeah, but you put children in this slaughterhouse and say, watch this. Yeah, oh yeah. They're not going to want to eat it. Yeah, no. And God created these children. You have a point. There is a point there. Yeah, there is a point. God created us like that. Yeah, yeah, we're the... We're the conscience, and that makes us sick. Why would that make us sick if it was natural? He also gave us conscience for this reason. I was just preaching about so that we know we fall short of his standard. Yeah. And then we come back to him. That's what repentance is. It's not church attendance. It's not the sinner's prayers. It's coming back to God broken. People won't do it. They get all religious, you know. It's not it. I think religion's given God a bad name. It has. You look at it with the devil. The devil runs religion. He does. There's a tip for you. He runs out too, mate. He runs out too. Peter makes the argument that Jesus, like many religious leaders throughout history, was an advocate of kindness and mercy. And that this outlook was in no way meant to be limited exclusively to human beings. Brass tax, though. Even if Jesus wasn't a vegetarian, Christians have to ask ourselves, what does it mean that animals are treated as so many inanimate objects today? What does it mean that chickens are given less space per bird to live their lives than an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper? That they're crammed by the tens of thousands into these sheds, cooped in their own pieces. That their beaks are seared off without any kind of anesthetics seared off with a hot iron so that many of them starve to death because eating becomes so painful that they're crammed under the back of these transport trucks by the thousands off to the slaughterhouse they go through whatever weather extremes many of them dying and they're hung upside down and that they have no legal protection whatsoever. Now again, if we did this to dogs or cats, Christians would be horrified. If a kid hurts an animal, parents will say that's not nice. Stop that. Even that's not Christian. We all understand that it's un-Christian to hurt an animal. But we suspend reality. When we sit down to eat, we want some chicken nuggets. You know, and it's killing us and it's destroying the environment and it's patently immoral. Whatever your faith background. The notion that Jesus was a vegetarian may set an example not only for Christians but for anyone who sees him or herself as a kind and merciful person. Leonardo da Vinci said, I have no doubt that one day all human beings will look back on the murder of animals in the same way we presently look at the murder of human beings. So it's inevitable. And the question is, what can we do to make it come about more quickly?