 Good morning to you all. Thank you very much for being here today. And we were saying before organizing such an international seminar, always comes with full of nerves and stress, but great hopes. As the vice rector said, seeing the aula magna, this great room full, which doesn't happen often. So this is really, really satisfactory. It's wonderful, having such an interested audience. And the second great aspect is having the pleasure of counting on such a wonderful panel of experts who've come voluntarily and happy to come and participate today. If you have a look at today's agenda, you will be aware of the quality of our experts with the closing remarks by our young researchers at the UB here today, youngsters who've decided to devote their research on the international brigades. So let's get started with the opening keynote. It's a great honor to have Remy Skutelsky. He's a French historian who specializes on the Spanish Civil War from a sort of social history viewpoint. He is a research fellow at the Paris University, and he's written many books, some of which are, for example, Novedan el Frente, or Novelty at the Front, who was very, very special on this sector, not only for the quality of his research, but also of the great quality of the archives he managed to get hand off, like the Moscow archives. Because thanks to his research, we could know many data on the figures and origin of all the volunteers who came to fight against fascism. And also, we had more social information on their behavior, on their characteristics as human beings. So Mr. Professor Skutelsky, you have the floor. After having received this great invitation, I was wondering how I could do this, because for the last 15 years, I haven't researched on the international brigades. I'm not at uni, so I went back to my past job. So I will be talking to you about the memory of the international brigades in France on the turn of the century and currently. And it depends on you to decide whether this comes, if it's parallel to what was happening in Spain, in Catalonia, or in other countries. First thing, it's usually done to separate collective memory and history, the first one being a unifying factor of a group in part of its identity based in places, celebrations, et cetera. It belongs to people who share this idea to what's sacred. The second, it pretends to be universal. It doesn't know the holiness of its nature, and it uses scientific methods. However, in today's topic, unfortunately, separating this is not that easy, because militant history, as we will see, is very, very important today indeed. The issue of the memory of the brigades in France can be thought of these sort of sad lines by Jose Ford, son of the brigadiste, journalist at the Humanité, the newspaper of the Communist Party. And I read, thousands of brigadists were killed for the first time by Franco, the military's and its Mussolini, Hitler, and French facist allies, after Vichy and Berlin, and a third by Stalin and their associates. Then they were marginalized, even forgotten about because of the forgiveness or indifference by the Western public authorities, which denied them the condition of veterans because of the exclusion that they were often suffering because they were being too critical about too many things. The exclusion also needs to be understood in both senses of this term, marginalization and being expelled from the party. If we cannot establish or state that the veterans in Spain were as such eliminated or deleted from the major ruling positions of the party, it's true that the party forgot about them for a long time. All testimonies agree. Why? The heroes of liberation are, of course, the resistance fighters. And actually, also the first lost, the second one. And Franco's fall after Hitler and Mussolini could have given back the Spanish veterans to the first highlight of memory. For hiding the great success of the brigade internationals by the resistance is then a phenomenon which goes far beyond the French Communist Party framework. But these contribute to this hiding or this forgetting. In the post-war, the party has its legitimacy in its role in the resistance. And it reinforces its nationalist discourse. The veterans in Spain, the veteran symbol of the internationalist struggle, are not thus a very important issue. Then the iron carton falls and the break or rupture between Stalin and Tito happens. However, the veterans of Spain fought hand by hand with the Americans and the Yugoslavians. Many of these people in the West paid with their own lives because of other reasons also. We can talk about it in detail afterwards. In the West, in France, I'm not sure whether you see they smell sulfur. No, no, they see the evil. They saw the dark side of things or even though they're undeniable loyalty to Stalin, independently from the Cold War, according to several historians, and I am one of them, there are two types of legitimacy in the party according to the time or the context. In times of political struggle, absolute loyalty to the line, to the leaders, and the Soviet Union is the basic quality. We do not pretend to accept responsibilities. We are identified, chosen, and promoted. In times of armed struggle, be it in the international brigade or the resistance, all the qualities are needed. Being a volunteer, autonomous, having initiative, and being brave. And when peace comes back, these qualities of those who fought become problems. Those who had proved to be brave, they become suspects. Away from the Communist Party, there are not much interest on the brigades according to the debility or weakness of production of all time, understanding them as an object. In the 70s, Jacques Delperie Bayag, a journalist, wrote a very serious piece of work on the Spanish Civil War and Spanish history. And 20 years afterwards, he did a master in history. Also a TV series, which then became a script. The most important one being the Falange of the Black Order, which was a satirical cartoon by Enki Bilal, which represents former brigadists as heroes. Several elements contribute for the international brigades to occupy again on the first arena during the 1990s. Some have international nature and international scope. Other are Franco-French, the first one being with historical consequences, because the archive in Moscow was opened in 1991, 1992. In fact, the administration in Albafete, rural little town in Spain, opened tons of documents which had been sent to the former Soviet Union in 1939. And afterwards, they were sent to the former Max Engels Institute. The second one being 1993, when an amendment was passed and suggested by a socialist politician who wanted to give the veteran ID or veteran card to the former volunteers. And then it was very controversial, the fact that the historian Annie Kriegel wrote a very hostile article public in Le Figaro, where she honored and rendered honor to Franco. And she was denying the brigadist the right to war the title of the first combatants of the resistance, because it was the armed side of the People's Commission for International Affairs, the NKVD. As a consequence of the evolution of the Communist Party related to the fall of the Berlin Wall, the French Communist Party suggested that former brigadists had a plague in the PCF. And the asir, the association of friends and sons of brigadists was founded. So it was wanted to gather again in Moscow a copy of the biographical archives of the French volunteers and give them to a totally independent institution by the Communist Party, the BDIC, the Library of Contemporary Research, the BDIC. After the 60th anniversary of the creation of the French, sorry, France, gave finally the ex-volunteers the veteran status, while the Cortes, one of the governments of Madrid, approved and passed by unanimity a law which gave them Spanish honor and nationality. Ken Loach, Land in Freedom, his film, had a great success, both here, also in France. And it's a paradox, because this film, which mentions very slightly the international brigades, it awoke a renewed interest to them. Being so that some students began to work at the university on this subject in France after seeing Ken Loach's film, thus we can illustrate the evolution of the communist memory towards Henry Roel Tanguy. He was a permanent communist syndicalist, Ari Tanguy, won Spain in 1937, and he became a political commissar in the 14th International Brigade, the Marseillais. Under the occupation, he took very important responsibility roles in the resistance, especially after his Spanish experience. And his last charge was the chief of staff of the French forces, the interior French forces in the Île-de-France, the metropolitan area around Paris, under the also known as Roel, which was a comrade who was killed in Spain. Afterwards, he was extra-officially and then officially was a member of the Central Committee of the Party. And when the military and political leaders of the communist resistance were killed or expelled by the management, by the party management, Roel Tanguy became this really well-known or emblematic figure of the communist resistance. In the 1990s, the Spanish past by Roel Tanguy can be highlighted because not only he's the incarnation of the resistance, the excluded had been re-accepted or rehabilitated, but also the continuity between the war in Spain and the resistance. In a very symbolic way, its last public operation will be in the inauguration event on the International Brigade Assert of the BDIC. It was also in the 1980s when the Black Book of Communism was published, which includes scientific articles, but also propaganda papers in the biggest sense of the word. The idea was to reduce communism to a criminal enterprise, but ignoring all the pieces that would not fit with this analytical framework. The best example of this approach is the chapter on Spain. Mistakes and approaches are changed. And the International Brigades are explained, but only through the 500 people who were killed by André Martí, a legend. And I'm not the only historic expert that has proven that. In Stalin and the Revolution, the Spanish case, Pierre also denounced the policies of the dictator in Spain. But he also took the articles from Brunet Bellotin, who that were not translated into Spanish. As a matter of fact, the International Brigades, according to him, and also according to Anicdigal, were not the armed part of NKVD, but they were the deviation by Moscow of a movement by a spontaneous part of the army in the coming term. Therefore, it was in 1990 when I published the results of my own research. I started with a sociologic history project. I wanted to understand who went to Spain, why, and what were the things that the volunteers had lived. But I was reading the Moscow archives for months. I worked with the organization of the brigades. And my conclusions, the conclusions I wrote, were totally opposed, totally contrary to Brunet's conclusions. And I will now elaborate on them. Stalinism, which was a murderous policy system and a politician system, was already ruling the international communism in 1936. The trials in Moscow started at the Errol Wave, that in regarding to foreigners was purging the staff at coming term and also led to the dissolution of the Polish Party. The role of the communist international in the international brigades is, of course, well understood. Also, the rise of communities in the republic. We also know that several activists living in Spain have been prosecuted and sometimes killed. Nonetheless, when we forget about rumors, the testimonies of witnesses, the writings from historians copying one another without checking the sources. If we don't do that, but instead, we focus on the real sources, then we can find, and I realize that, that we cannot talk about political repression in the international brigades, except for the case of the national volunteers from the party that was almost forbidden in Moscow, particularly in Poland and the Hungarian parties. The question then is why they did not annihilate or kill hundreds of people who were not following the disciplines and those who would criticize officials, the top managers, or the lines of the party, deserters, all of them include that in an army that was more and more classical. There were three main reasons for that, and I will repeat what I already said a while ago. Let us come back to the time when the brigades were established in autumn 1936, according to all the observers, Madrid was about to fall. People thought that Madrid would fall within weeks and the Republic would fall. It is highly likely that at that time, for Stalin, the idea was to avoid this fall, but especially Stalin wanted to highlight the help of the comet. As such, the international brigades have a very important symbolic meaning due to this reason, the political orthodox of these people is still secondary. Against all thoughts that had been foreseen, Madrid would resist the University City and Haramabad. The real restructuring of international brigades did not start until 1937. But the promotion of man because of the merits and not loyalty was already there. We will never completely change that, despite the climate of internal suspicion, the fear of spies that was this manifestation of Stalinism and that was worsened here by the military defeats. Why? Because international brigades, a true army with all the burdens that it entails, were formed by volunteers. The managers, the Stalinist managers, must deal with thousands of brigades who are not. And special officials and soldiers who are facing the terrible fight are not propaganda disseminators or are not leaders of the strike. There's a second reason, too. For Moscow, the international brigades are especially a tool for propaganda for the strategy of people's fronts or popular fronts. And this was so from the very beginning. It's an international, popular front in arm fighting. In terms of displacement, the same rules. But in international soil, you cannot apply the same rules as in your own country. And finally, there is a last reason that goes beyond the brigades. This is all happening in Spain, not in the former Soviet Union. And contrary to all the things that have been written, Soviets cannot do what they can in Spain at the time. And they cannot do what they want in Catalonia either. These conclusions have not been challenged until now or to date by all historic experts. However, sometimes there are surprises. In this way, in 2012, there was a book launched from the United States on the Cold War. And this book, after a long time, it reached French. According to, well, this book includes the memories of Siemensstein, a veteran Jew of the international brigades and was published in the anti-communism press in the 1960s. This book was translated into French and caused a media problem. Because then, Siemensstein was in 1936 a propaganda official of Virobitran. He was shocked by the Moscow trial. So he wanted to leave. Towards Spain, despite his willingness to go to the front, to go to the fighting, he was sent to Alba Fete at the settlement. At the end of his trip, he managed to spend some weeks in the boat wing company. In Alba Fete, he could see nothing of the battle. And sometimes, when he sees it, he sees it from the very far distance. Because he sees Marty, precisely at the time, when the chief of the brigade is in Moscow. So he sees nothing. But he gets bored. And therefore, he's starting to get all type of gossip from this witness to read it. According to this, the international brigades have a mafia within it. Terror is prevailing against all type of dissidents. The martyrs are counted by full brigades. This is a hobby of Marty. The orgies include brigade officers, but also Spanish prostitutes and foreign volunteers. In a nutshell, this is just another type of the far-right wing propaganda of the 1930s. This book is also post-factioned by a French historian that wonders whether Stein is not exaggerating, but he finally draws the conclusion that he's not. With Stalinist, everything is possible. And if it's possible, that means that it did happen. Indeed, there is also an article by Edward Seill and Christian Bouven that explains the story on this book online. If you wish, I can give you the website, and you can check it. Two years ago, Patrick Rodman managed a documentary film called La Tagerie, The Brigade International that was based on some archival images from the past. Michel Leferre, who is a journalist at the newspaper Le Monde, is an author of several books on the iconography of the Spanish War, one of which he published with me. And he wrote the following, and I'm quoting here. There are two ways of speaking about the story of the international brigades. The first one is to describe the units of volunteers that were managed by Stalinist leaders who were wanting just blood and who were shooting their own troops or killing truss kids or anarchists, therefore being traitors to the drive of social repulsion. The second one is to consider these brigades as the ultimate representatives of communist utopia that it falls victim of the Stalinist night, heroes of the anti-fascist struggle. And the first ones to participate in this episode that is the beginning of the second or the pre-chapter of the Second World War. Patrick Rodman obviously was doubting between the two, and finally he decided to take the second approach. The international brigade as a positive means are regularly called upon because they have a symbolic burden, which is still very strong. The term brigade cannot be neutral. It's never neutral because it necessarily refers to the international volunteers and to Spain. When several youth movements participated in the reconstruction of Yugoslavia after the Stalin-Tito fall in 1949, they called their groups brigades, reconstruction brigades as a matter of fact. The War of Bosnia in the 90s was also the perfect timing for these pointless calls to reconstruct the international brigades, along with the inhabitants of Sarajevo. We could give other examples outside of France, such as the Solidarity Brigades with Nicaragua in the Sandinist Revolution times in France. The Spanish Civil War is still a reference that nobody can deny. And we could see that with the last Middle East events. In April 2013, Jean-Pierre Fillieu, I think this is a Catalan surname, isn't it? No, it's not. Well, Jean-Pierre Fillieu, a historian in the Arab world, he published a paper in Le Monde, quote, and by the way, I'm going to say that in French, and I hope you understand. Syria is our Spanish war. The beginning is home reach to Catalonia from George Orwell. And based on that, it describes the situation of civilians during wartime. Why not? And after that, there is a metaphor that would be funny if facts were not so tragic. The bombing of Aleppo are compared with the bombing in Guernica. Russia and Iran nowadays are supposed to be compared to the Nazi Germany and the fascist yesterday. The non-intervention of Western democracies in 2011 are as bad for Syrian Democrats as it was for Spaniards in 1936, of course. In terms of today's jihadists, they are compared to the old Stalinists with this hierarchy and discipline that can compensate for the ultra-minoritarian personality. The support by a foreign sponsor gives it a terrible advantage on the local formation that is poorly equipped. And the totalitarian project denies the aspirations of freedom as it was with the Spanish people. We want to say, where is the republic in all of this? Jean-Pierre Fillieu did not mention the international brigades. Others took the risk, and they did it within another context. After the terrible killings in the Jewish school of Toulouse, Charlie Hebdo, the terraces of Parisian cafes, the hyper-cache shop, and the concert room in Bataklan, committed by French people who had traveled through Syria or Iraq. After Charlie Hebdo, but before Bataklan, the political analyst Loren Bonely published in Le Monde Diplomatique a comparison between several external commitments, including the brigadiste and jihadist. This comparison expresses, in his opinion, or has, in his opinion, some common mechanisms. And it helps to understand what motivates some people to leave their family, friends behind, but also the working environment and becoming engaged in a distant and uncertain course. So in common, a very powerful ideology, the mediators' role in 1936, the working organization in 2015, its internet. And other common points are the youth. This is not true, actually, for the international brigades. A personal willingness to go out, willing to be adventurers, being available. And when they arrive, linguistic difficulties in situ, and the desertion phenomenon. So the conclusion of this very superficial demonstration is, I quote, the systematic analysis of the specific mechanisms under which, or by which, these individuals have been fighting to produce opposite utopias, sorry, moving the cursor of the moral judgment in the political arena. So even more interesting is the work by Jean Bermond, responsible of the work section of Le Monde, which was published in January 2016. The title being En silence religieux. This is a religious silence. It's the left attitude in front of jihadism. What did he say? And I quote, while violence on the name of God, it's constantly in the center of attention. The left seems useless or important to clash or face this phenomenon, because they believe that religion is often a social symptom only. An illusion belonging to the past, never a political force by its own right. In a chapter titled The Hope Now, from the brigades to the jihadists, understands that the previous internationalist movement does not seem to be able to perturbed or worry the world globalization in its capitalist form. But there is a force that seems to be able to worry it. This force is the political Islam. Nowadays, it's the only ideal under which masses of men and women can actually defy the world order in the five continents. This political Islam seems to be the only cause for which thousands of youngsters are ready to face death on the other side of the world. Today, the idea of international solidarity amongst workers is allowing the idea of global mutual aid amongst the Muslim community. And according to the author, it is to the light of this change that we need to analyze the phenomenon of jihadism. This journalist compares the French jihadists and the French contingent of volunteers which were participating in the international brigades based on the work by some French jihadists, the journalist David Thompson, which I haven't read, and mine on the French who participated in the international brigade. Differently to the two before mentioned authors, it's not about finding 100% analogies, but to specify similitudes and differences. And this is not even by entering in or analyzing its events or acts on the field. Because let me tell you that this week, actually, the International Federation of Human Rights asked this week for French citizens who participated in the persecution of Yazidis in Iraq to be taken to the court and judged. So Jean Bermond actually takes a non-equivocose or very clear conclusion. The difference between jihadists and jihadists is indeed radical and cannot be denied. His way of proving his argument is even more interesting when he rejects to make any moral dimension judgment. There was 32,000 brigadists, around 20,000 foreign volunteers who participated in Syria, but amongst them, 1,000 Frenchmen. Jean Bermond actually talks about sociological differences between these two corpus is. Can characterize the French brigadist as a worker with at least a very little military experience through his experience in the army. He's around 30 years old, he's single. And indeed, this idea is quite heterogeneous, but in the end, there is no distortion in my writings. The jihadist, which leaves to build the caliphate in Syria, has a sort of not so clear profile. It's not strange, not rare that he comes with his family. He doesn't have any military experience. The average age gets younger and younger. It's around 22 years old. And these fighters come from a myriad of different social origins. It's quite curious for us the feeling that makes jihadists to actually go to the field, to the war. It's less rage than enthusiasm. Thus, we find the same motivation in both groups. They both want to help their martyr brothers or sisters. The French jihadists are persecuted by images of Syrian children, assassinated by Bashar al-Assad's army. And with regards to Syria, Yemen, and the Israeli bombing in Gaza, it highlights the urgent necessity of world solidarity. There is thus a domino effect, which can be compared to those commitments and a powerful network of solidarity, even though it is less visible with jihadists. So in the same way as jihadists, so Spain as the place of the struggle against the capitalist world, the jihadists are convinced that the universal destiny depends on whatever happens to Syria or rather the sham, which is the group of countries in the Middle East, Syria, Jordan, et cetera. So the journalist has highlighted two differences, the sociological and the militant culture. Furthermore, there is a third one living towards Spain in France, is done under the stars, under the sign of collectivity, and supervised by a very powerful organization. The Syrian one, however, is individual, improvised, and clandestine. So both jihadists and also jihadists want, finally, to free men from its state of alienation. And it's precisely where we can talk about this liberation. And we need to use the Birbon formula, I quote, a mortal conflict between two visions of the world, two ideas of mankind. That is, it is the level of the most intimate convictions where the antagonism inhabits. In the revolutionary ideology taken in its broader sense of the world, the universal socialism will allow no more bourgeois or proletariat intellectual, both national or foreign, but emancipated or autonomous individuals, both women and men who have finally emerged from the prehistory of mankind, they have entered history. And in this sense, it is 100% coming or drinking from the sources of the Enlightenment ideology. And jihadists also find it really difficult to tolerate division of humanity, because they think, jihadists, it is necessary to do this volunteer regression. It's injustice of capitalism and imperialism. They oppose, they don't accept, going back to this sacred origin of the first times of the Islam. I mean these first times being obviously very sort of fantasized of very ideal. They begin to break with the West and globally with history. I need to make a slight digression. I need to quote another book. It's the Terror of the Hexagon, the Terror or Horror in the Hexagon. The politologist Gilles Kepel, who's a specialist in Islam and the Arab world currently, he actually dismembers the separatist strategy. He says Salafists in total breccia with the West may leave France alone to live simply in the integral Islam in a Muslim world where women can wear the niqab, which is this total cover, which is forbidden now in France. This is a 100% peaceful viewpoint. And the transition towards violence when it happens, this is what we're talking about here. It adopts two forms. It combats, it fights weapons with the war battle, which has been happening since the 80s, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Pakistan, Iraq, and since 2012, Syria and also Iraq. And secondly, a violence mode, i.e. exerting it in the territory of the copfers, being impious, non-believers. And according to the Koran expression, blood is licid, i.e. they have the right to kill. Because Mera began this process in France. And these two forms of violence can be combined. Actually, more jihadists in France began working in Syria. So being there, we have seen these two logic ideologists, antagonists at the same time, which is no less important than the fact that there exists a volunteer at the Carlemagne Legion, the French SS, for example, and an agent who participated in the International Brigades. But there is another one. It's also the totally different dimension. It's the absolute privilege given to the future beyond to paradise, which comes with not valuing life. This information is repeated constantly in the Islamist imaginary and literature. Only the liars and cowards love life. The true, the valiant, only wished death. And in bin Laden's words, which will become the late motif by jihadists, will love death as much as you love life. And Bernmond concludes, and I quote, here, the clash between the jihadist and jihadist imaginary is not only a frontal one, but also one that comes from the most inner feelings from the gods. Because volunteers in Spain went to the world to build conditions for 100% human life. This will also be my conclusion. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Rami, for this wonderful speech going through since the very beginning of the first days of the International Brigade coming here to Spain, explaining also the repression which actually happened within the International Brigade organization. And also, you've mentioned how the positive myth began towards or with these volunteers, which recently have generated movements with more or less success with people participating in foreign conflicts. And you've concluded with this link towards the present moment, identifying these similitudes, but also the differences, obviously, between these volunteer people joining the Islam cause, the jihadists, I meant. One last word for our audience. We have 10 minutes. I don't know whether you'll have any questions. To link with the last part of your presentation and the conclusions you have drawn, you said that there was this contrast between the International Brigades and the idealists in the Muslim conflicts, in the Islam World conflicts. To what extent do you think that the memories of the International Brigades fighting in Spain can become an incentive for a movement against the extreme far right wing? And I'm referring to the civil mobilization, to the civil struggle. I believe that the problem, if I'm understanding your right, is how this memory can help to fight. Well, I'm not optimistic, to be honest. I believe that, I mean, I'm not a specialist, of course. And I'm starting to read some books on jihad and jihadists, but I've read them in a book because somebody told me that it was talking about mine. But as a matter of fact, I think that the main characteristic of jihadists going to Syria, these young people, is to have this total, frontal, rapture, disruption. And I think this is very important. When Viamon explains, and this is a very serious piece of work he did, how to explain that, when he says that the history of international brigades, of course, belongs to history, but the real disruption of young jihadists is also a disruption with history. They want to break that. They don't want to forget about the past. In their approaches, they say that they're not interested in history, in politics. They're not interested in anything. They're interested in their own world, their life. So no. On the other hand, maybe the same thing happens here, but in France, we say that the key is the Republican school. And I am sure that there is this disruption, but I'm not so sure on some things, because as you know, as a matter of fact, there are two things to be considered here. And it all makes the situation very difficult, firstly. Not all jihadists come from poor backgrounds, and there is a lot of conversion, especially in girls who are converted, and they can come from a very rich, wealthy background. So that has to be considered on the one hand. On the other hand, we can also have people with no problems at school. This is why I'm not optimistic. Secondly, we have a real problem in France. This may be another difference versus international brigades, but in the main propaganda centers for the conversion to Islam, we do not know how to face that. We don't know how to fight against this, and I truly believe that I may not be answering your questions, but I'm not really optimistic, because maybe I'm a little bit of a politician. I speak nonstop without any type of meaning, right? Sorry about that. Don't worry. Any more questions in the audience? I believe that we should compare the Islam. No comparison should be made between the international brigades and Islam. The international brigades came here with their hearts from the bottom of their hearts, whereas Islam is the hatred towards the Republican system to all type of systems that we have settled in the world. So no comparison should be made between both. That's my opinion. I only want to answer this very, very briefly. When I read this book, I thought that maybe, brigades, and I'm thinking of communists, revolutionary communists, there is a whole revolution of communists who went to Spain also to have a disruption with the French Republic. They wanted to disrupt and break. I mean, when we talked about social fascism, when we considered democracy, bourgeois democracy, as fascism, that happened in the 1930s. Therefore, we can say that this was, in a way, a disruption that was also important with France at that time. But of course, it's not true. This comparison is not true. This is just, you know, it's not words that count. It's acts that count, and they were revolutionary. But when I was talking about it, it was like a history book from the Third Republic. I mean, even among the strictest communists, there was a very strong republican power that made it that when this was converted into the republic in the 1935, in the past, they just were going to polls and elections. But I don't want to quote Lenin here. The most interesting part is that when the communist, the French Communist Party, became a part of this republic nationalism in 1935, I believe that for communists who went to the French republican school, that conversion was super easy, really obvious. And that entails a huge and important difference. Any more questions in the audience? Do we have any more questions? Good. So this was the last one. It's not a question. It is rather a humble opinion, according to what I've studied on the international brigades. I don't think that they only use their hearts, because I'm sure you had this also use their hearts, in my opinion. The thing is, back then, there was class awareness, and there was international organizations that we cannot even dream of. There would have been no brigades without this class awareness, because it was especially against fascism. And it was, of course, communist and trade unionists. But these brigades were organized by the Third International. Where is this international organization nowadays? Nobody can organize us now. And it's a contradiction, because the Stalinist communists they always are proud of international solidarity. And it is true, and class awareness. But when Spanish anarchists think about it, I have been specialized in German international brigade members. Of course, I'm biased here. But in Germany, they talk about anarchism in a very bad way, with no class awareness, but you're criticizing others, right? So it's a bit of a contradiction, in any case. Class awareness is key. And the availability of big organizations, where is our class awareness? Where are the big international organizations? Fascism, of course, was really important back then at the time for German activists and Italian activists who have suffered fascism and Nazism in their own under the skin, that most of them were in the exile. Anyways, but fascism, well, there are many throughout Europe. But still, they're fascist, but the enemy is not as clear. And of course, as I said, it all comes down. It all boils down to class awareness and international associations. This is my opinion. Last question. Good morning. I would just like to remember that I think that the two models, of course, in Syria, under a confrontation, this is what happens with the Kurdish militia that have received some international support, some volunteers within the Spanish state. Some people have gone to fight for women in Kurdistan, for example. So I just wanted to state that and clarify that there are some similarities. But there are also some differences. And there are two opposing standpoints. So the very last question now. And then we will close this session and go for the coffee break. I would like to thank our speaker for his approach and for these ideas on the French history with regards to the international brigades. Because this discussion is non-existent here. We still have a discussion pending on what Stalinism meant in Catalonia and Spain. But we need a discussion with no passion in a more serious way. There was a book published three years ago on the Paiolet man and the murderer of Trotsky. But this book did not lead to the necessary discussion. Among left-wing alternative parties, there's this idea of creating this new communist party of the 21st century. But there's always this romantic thought of the communist party in the past, which is really arguable from the democratic point of view. So there are many people who started their struggle, who were linked to Stalinism at the PSUC. And now they keep a romantic memory of it. But I really liked your speech. It was great food for thought. And I hope that the event today can help us in this critical review that we very much need on the international brigades that escapes from simplification because we have a wonderful task ahead of us, which is to build the left wing of the future. But we really need to understand how the totalitarian left-wing parties were in the past for that. OK, so thank you very much. I would like to read you just five lines that have been sent to us from our Republican Catalan volunteer, Josep Randeiriba, who wanted to hand-write some reflections. Because Josep belonged, was a part. Josep was a part of the international brigades. And he was a Republican volunteer. He was born in Catalonia. And he wants to convey the following ideas. I'm going to read in Catalan. And then I will translate it afterwards. Would like you never to forget the generosity of these thousands of people who fought in that stupid war. You should explain that to your son's daughter, his grandson's granddaughter, because I don't want them to suffer what I did. Josep was fighting in the 35th division, especially with gun machines and machine guns. And he doesn't want us to forget. We should never forget the generosity of these thousands of people who fought. And we should explain it to our offspring so that we never suffer again what he had to suffer. And Josep is here with us in the audience today. A huge applause for him.