 to approve the agenda I move to approve the agenda as emailed by Trevor. All those in favor? All right. Consider approving prior meeting minutes. I move that we accept the minutes for both the October 17th meeting and the October 24th meeting. I just have a comment about the last meeting which was the 24th. We did receive an email from Marty Strange that he complained that it wasn't reflected in the minutes about his communication. And we did talk about it here. It's not in the minutes. So this says there's none to report but we did discuss it. So maybe with the addition of under number six on the October 24th minutes. We didn't talk about it much. However, could I ask that we put in the amendment that you're requesting but under public comment? Well, it was communication that corresponded. We have a specific part on the agenda for communications that were sent for people to talk about letters that came in or anything that came in as Trevor about the committee. And I wasn't quite done with the discussion. I was just trying to... Technically we can't amend until we have a second. Then we have friendly discussion and then we decide if we're amending. Well, my suggestion was just that the minutes under number six should reflect that we did discuss correspondence received from Marty Strange by email to the committee as opposed to there was none to report. That's my proposed amendment to the October 24th minutes. Well, we don't have a motion and a second for minutes to amend yet. I will second the old motion doing both sets of minutes. Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. And now we have Kristin making an amendment to it. So do you accept the amendment? I accept the amendment as well. And you'll accept the amendment? Yes. Okay. Now we have a motion with an amendment in a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. So I have a question about that. Yeah. Emails and such that may be sent to me. Can I be entered? Yep. Send them to the committee and then it gets listed. Or does it have to be an email to the whole committee? Oh, it can come to you and you can forward it to the whole committee. Okay. And then it gets entered in. Okay. Great. Thank you. Sure. All right. Next up is business who jump in front of the barn. A quick comment about a vision I have for the police department. I hope that once we get the police department, whatever we decided is that we can organize a citizen's review committee for police operations. It is something that has come out of the police reform movement. It's something that I think is important and agree with. And I know that Scott agrees with me. There are nationwide associations that deal with these committees. So at such time as we go to do something, we would have plenty of resource to help advise us to how to do something with this particular given town. So to quote Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that. Thank you. Was that quick enough? You're good. You're good. I don't see anybody here from the barn and nobody on the line. Yeah. Kim had followed up. She was out today. We'll keep trying. You're going to have another. So discuss operating options continued budget review. So we haven't done anything updated from last time. So those version two sheets and I can pull them all up again because I don't want to see them are the same ones that laid out kind of what we call existing, modified and town like districts. Three primary models that we've done. I do have a quick sheet that I can hand around because it asks for some quick tax calculations. So what is on this sheet is we've got the existing and the town one. The reason we start with those two is because those are the ones we have the approved grand list for because they're already in place. I can give you a rough idea of what a modified district would be. We've just got to have the window over triangle and some of the southern properties to that grand list to get you a better number. I just didn't have time to get there. I need to work in progress. Yeah. So I went back and looked at what we did have in that value. So I can at least tell you where we landed before we made a few additional. So it does go up to that intersection in Randolph Center. It does go down at least to get the Shaw's. We just got to get that little southern loop and the little window over thing in there to get that number. So I didn't put it. We've got a similar table for it. I just don't have it in there because it's coming along. The caveat that I mentioned in the email to you all is still there. These grand list values that you look at, these rates that you look at when we get to August, no matter what the model is you pick, none of these are going to be there. Based on the timing of reappraisal, that grand list will be something completely different. So what we've used in here is what we filed with our 411 as part of an annual process. So that comes through the Lister's office. So those values are from that. And so at the top I just tried to put two rates down for you. One's the tax rate for the police district as it was set in August by the board. The other one is trying to quantify that general fund payment for service. So what we did to do that, there's a note on it in the bottom, but it's in pretty tiny text. Actually I'm going to pull it up on the screen for you too. I think I put it in this folder. Everything worked. I'll have this up here in a second stuff. But these numbers in the budget don't include a new building in the town line, right? For the vehicles. Here we have the vehicles. This doesn't... Yeah, these are just the operating budget. So that's the capital transfers that are in there. But then the cost of the new vehicles will still have to be figured out. So some of the options come into... We've talked about it from lease to own to trying to pay for them outright. If we did that, the only source of money that's left that's sufficient to cover that would be something like another allocation of ARPA funds. There's about 30,000 left over from the original. 200,000 set aside. I've got to open this in a different program. What's the overall budget of the town? If you took, say, all funds right down to water and waste water, you're getting closer to that 9 to 11 range. Those are... The enterprise funds are a little different. Town funds three and a half to four. I think we're going to land... Drafts are around 3A, 3.9. Another 2 million or so for highway. Whatever we do for this, we're going to land except being a little less than 400, I think. They're in the 3, 63, 80 range. Special appropriations are another... They're a little less than 100,000, but they're voted separately. And then water and waste water are another couple million combined. We do budgets for landfill operations, so we've got the capital landfill. There's some costs associated with that, but those are paid for through non-property tax revenues. All funds, I think... I'm trying to remember where we landed. I must say it was all funds, exercise. Yeah. But all of them would be property tax except for water and waste water. Landfills paid essentially from some... more of this investment income from when it was capped. And there was a closure amount set aside. And so there's some things like that. So here it is up on the screen. So to calculate this one was just to try to put how many cents per $100 values. It's less than the overall town-wide rate. Go for that $100,000 payment for services. And the way I calculated is I took the $100,000 that was in the 24 budget. And there's a little bit of revenue shown for ticket fees, for example. So we did it just like we would do for any of the rest of these. You look at the total amount of spending. You subtract any non-tax revenue. And that's the amount to be raised by taxes. So in trying to get that first model, that was how we got that rough. You know, what does Joe pay now versus Neil Payne now on the two rates? So you can see with that last version, version two. And we can talk a little bit about what this number and where it is. But we just took that because that's the last number you've seen. Here's the non-tax revenue that goes with it. Included in that $187,000 though is that $100,000 from the general fund. That goes in there. And so to be raised by property taxes to make the rest of it up, again this is all on the district. You divide this number to get this number. So you can see that budget from where we're at. $24 is beefy. About 23 cents per 100 of assessed value. When you come down to the townwide, obviously we get rid of the $100,000 payment for service because it's all general fund in this model. And then we boost some other things. We combine some of the non-tax revenues. That's why it's not straight, you know, $417. So it's $135 in non-tax revenue. So you get your tax to be raised by taxes. You got your grand list from the $411. And you get a townwide tax rate of about 25 cents per 100. You can see for outside the district it's about 23 cents. So you need a model you're about 23 cents could take. For folks inside the district there's about a 3 cent increase based on these very rough metrics. When you look at that modified district before we add those you actually end up pretty close to this rate. Because remember the budget's a little bigger the staffing footprint was a little bigger so you've added some costs but you also add some grand list value. And so in that earlier model it was about 49 cents but just the ones that we had would be that modified district rate. We add the other ones it'll probably come to around that 45 cents in terms of the total release rate for that modified district. With this with that budget value for the modified district. So is this what we're asking is this based upon the current grand list value and not the reappraised right yeah this grand list value from the the dollars and just work out the same way but yeah grand list should yeah if everything works the way it should reappraise it will come back grand list will go up tax rates will go down the amount to be paid be the same your tax bill should stay the same value more or whatever but right yeah individuals might see fluctuation but that's theoretically absolutely yeah so it just gives you a sense of impact I think so on a so 250,000 dollar home I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't around I don't yeah I don't I don't 100,000 my yeah so that's for a I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't Congress I don't I don't farms are maybe more or less, but there's large properties, lots of buildings, blah, blah, blah. So that's a huge hit on those properties and those farmers. And some of the things we can look at, I mean when you think of where there are areas for, either with your recommendations or for the board later, to make an impact on sort of rate, there are really only two ends of it. And one of them probably isn't all that substantial in terms of the impact. So when you look at non-tax revenue, there are only so many sources and so far you can go. Because even if we get super aggressive with traffic enforcement, that can boost that amount, that's what those officers are doing with their time. So you can probably make an impact and bring it down and leave the spending same, but it's, they're our trade-offs to that. You don't really have a lot of sources. Or you have to look at spending and now we're back. And it's kind of the same set of challenges of can we make a smaller footprint work in some way in any of the models without baking in some of the problems we already know from experience don't work. I think the other piece of it is at the present, what the present budget that this is based upon, the present budgets that kind of been put out on those other sheets, that said, it's actually cheaper for in the district to keep it just in the district than it is to expand the district. Because they're going to see a three-cent tax increase to expand it. Outside the district is going to see a 25-cent tax increase or 23-point whatever it's incentive increase. But in the district, by your present budget, it's actually cheaper for them to stay just in the district. So if we look at the total cost, though, to going town-wide, we're going to have to bond for a new station. Yeah. And so you're going to have a bond payment in there too, and additional vehicles. So you're really only looking at a portion of the cost when you look at this, because you've got, I mean, I bet you you're going to be in two to looking at building costs right now and what we're paying on some of our buildings. I bet you're in the two to three million range to build a police station. Easy. Yep. I'm going to be safe for a metric, I'm trying to remember. With each model it was, we wanted two cars per model kind of thing. Yeah, we got two cars for the existing that need to be replaced, and then we were at four additional cars needed for town-wide plus a building. And we figured it was 60 fully outfitted per car, so for four cars you're not 340, 340, sorry, not a long day. A quarter of a million. Three, three and a quarter million in capital. In capital. The thing is, nobody wants to pay for it until they need it. And then once they need it, if you break it down, I mean it's like, you know, so many dollars per day that you're paying for to have the security of having a police force at the ready to assist you if you need it. Unless you're a large landowner for a farm and you're paying on a million dollars and you're, you know, that's a lot of money to pay for one house that needs it. You may or may not need the service, yeah. You know, I think that's a... And I still don't believe that we've proven that the service is needed. Do we have a million dollars? Sure we do. Look at some of these farms, the land they own. They're paying up. We can also, with some of these, I forgot to mention that the cops grant modeling, if we fully baked that out, we can probably get that number down based on a couple... If we just took the model we used last spring in terms of some of those costs that show up. I mean that's still the budget, but that amount to be raised by taxes is a little less because we've got to have those revenues to come in as well. The gamble being that you have to get the cops grant. And you got to absorb that at some point. So while it eases you into it, what we should be evaluating is what's the total cost going to be when we're paying the bill and what is that impact and yeah you'll get a break and get used into it. But in year four or year two or whatever year you've expended the grant, you're stuck. That's a lot. That's a lot of money. And who do we have right now who's writing grants or looking for grants that have to do with law enforcement? I don't want to say catch, it's catch can. There's a pretty good sense of the main ones that are out there. So Governor's Highway Safety Program, J.M., actually did a lot of the like work on that thankfully. Brought that expertise with him when he joined. We got a passive grant for some equipment that was one that they let us know was there. Lower dollar amount but pretty big impact. They're easy. And then cops grant we'll have to when we were doing the application last year was kind of a team effort in terms of who had to put what pieces in. I think Rose did a lot of the initial input at least. But other than the cops grant, we don't do any other federal grants? We haven't for policing at least yet. We haven't needed to, right. Right. Because I just see a lot of DOJ and BJA and DOJ grants for you know enhancing what they call community policing in various aspects. Whether it's substance you know targeting substance use or mental health or domestic violence. Lots of different federal dollars. But you need somebody looking out like you know it's really kind of dedicated in search and regards to looking for that cops grant. And you have a really broad mouth. As of yet we try to see what we can come up with. You've got to be kind of careful with those grant grants too. And you know it's just a one-stop shop or is it you know kind of like a cops grant where it's incremental for the next like three years or so. Yeah some of the DOJ grants require that kind of fund. Correct. You've got to take deep thought. Correct. I can't get across my test. Yeah and my experience with the grants is that they look really nice up top. But when you get down to the weeds you take a look and there's a lot of that we may not be able to apply for. We just don't meet the criteria of what they're looking for. Or the requirements of those charges. We're going to try to process those grants holistically. Yeah the idea that you have got a three-slot finding department rather than two. We're going to hire a plan. It's only going to be sure that the search budget is $1,501. It's going to be a development directive in case I'm similar to you. We're going to be more aggressive not just in the application but we're more aggressive in the application. We're a lot better management of them. So that helps us to pull off three-slot finding. We're going to have to look for opportunities. But this far is a grant writer. Like did you wrongly do something on this one? Did you do something like this one? Did you do something like this one? You did a few here and there. Yeah some of that though is that we're trying to wrap our community around our community here. Yeah close out. Can you go back down? Is there a sort of efficient, automated petal? I don't know. They're a pain point. It'll fill these sums up for option 100. You have to draw your elbows one after another. I think it's on all the grants. Yeah. The town has to do that. Of course the state requires it. And then that takes staff out. But we don't necessarily have. And if our partner isn't really good about sending in the data, they need to go forward. So they don't stop your chasing it. With no money. They don't pay for the position. It's nothing. It took the town per se for the managing program. The problem is they just shifted to that model of so many programs. But the town now has a lot of grants on books. And a lot of partnerships that are coming to the table. And you don't get this straight at the end, right? Yeah. We're going to go back capturing this one. Because we've substituted. We can charge our administrative costs for what we do. Yeah. We're playing after an online plan. And now we're getting paid for it. We're trying to put those things in. Trafficking better. But just give it a hell of a body. Right. That is a small difference in our products. A lot of the PCTP and different sort of programs. PCP, Green Grants, which were all on the job. We're all going to be involved in it back when he was here. And I think 55,000 are all the PCTPs. Yeah. It works really well on smaller dollar branch. And you get a value of complexity. And that's a lot of work. Am I missing something? I'm not here. I'm not here. You're going from 5,000 to 8,000 to 6,000. But that's not the event that he was in. That's what we're going to do. What we've highlighted is the right size. The right amount. But you're still in the district. That would still be the district. We still have that payment service outside the district. It takes. Okay. I'm sorry. Let's go a little bit back. What is this number? It was huge. That's really the difference from 8 to 6. This is this one. Here it is. 6,000 to 5,000. Right. But they really should go from 8 to 6. So not that bad. And the same thing here. Right. One goes to the operational footprint. It should be a kind of quick carry that forward to 6,000. Because each one has no coverage. Area, area. Remember, we couldn't get 800,000 all through. Pick up all of it down. I remember that. 500,000 and what about through? You know, I remember that. It is even if we modify the districts. Basically, I picked up double from what? Okay. That's the solution. Next year you're going to get 524. Right. So we either try what's realistic for the existing. Okay. We go up. Right. We modify to take a couple hundred thousand dollars. Okay. That's the point. The difference here, really. You can do it two ways. It's really a couple hundred thousand. Right. Two hundred thousand dollars more than the existing. Looks better that way. Yeah. You sound to me like, you don't have a lot of both hope and faith. We can get the budget more than what we already have. Right? I don't think you're going to get a town life like that. Right. I think that's a big one. I think that if you're in over a million, you just have half the expense on top of that. That's a big payment. Yeah. And so it's probably a stretch of the process because we have a public meeting, so this meeting makes a recommendation to select for which is concluded. Does that conclude the feedback yet at the public meeting? Or does it get the public feedback before we prepare a recommendation? Right. Right. Here's what you're going to say and then you can incorporate that into our process. And put another one forward. Okay. And for a town-wide one, as far as like a building, I mean, you have to have a full separate committee to really give people the exact thing. I mean, you have to vote on something you don't know for sure. But you're building with a separate project, right? Then you go out for a town-wide vote on a bond but you can't function in an existing building. No. No. Well, you just put them on a page, you know. So you're going to ask for a card and you're going to have to have one. You're going to have to have one. For example, if you have one today, you'll have a capital replacement cycle on those that you have to do. And Trevor's right. You got your choice. Like we do it all the time with the dump trucks and pickups and whatever. It's like, you know, is there enough money in your capital reserve to actually buy it outright? Or do you finance it and pay so much a year for three years or five years, depending on what the item is? And that'll make a difference in what your capital item is. But you also, once you go down that path, you're either committed to that type of financing going forward or you're going to get a bubble. Right? So either you're you're committing to paying for it and having a replacement cycle and that amount of money in the budget every year or you got a lease payment. And if you want to switch to buying it, you got a pretty big bubble to buy them instead of making a lease payment. But, you know, those are those are two things that you can do. But if we go with the current inflation rate, $60,000 is not going to be $60,000 three years from now. As well. Well, I think have we is the public forum set? Like, did we Yeah, we picked $20,000. I didn't get a response from Peter. We get November 28th is the date. I thought we had December 5th. What do we have for December 5th? No, I had written down there. That might be when you meet again. That's what they meet again. 28th is the public meeting. I knew that. Do we have a venue? I don't know if we do. We talked about doing it at BTC. That's when we're going to plan after tonight's conversation if that's where you still want to go. I mean, it seems like because the public we've heard from so far, you know, the Fish Hill residents or whatever who are, you know, like, I rely on state police. State police is great. You know, they think you asked them about how long ago they called and it was like 20 years ago and I think it's important that somebody I mean we've all heard it many times but I don't know, I guess the public hasn't about the current situation with our barracks where it's important that they're going to be able to somebody's going to need to talk about that at the public meeting so that people understand the reality. That is part of it, what the staffing levels are. I mean, they got the FTEs they just don't have them filled and the challenges they have with that but the other one is as soon as you vote to go townwide you are the primary law enforcement agency. Those calls are all yours. I don't think we've gotten anywhere near going townwide. Right, but it's both sides so they need to understand what their service is but everybody needs to understand what the actual impact is about that direction. But I would just get it clarified in my head, if you go townwide it's a step by step process for the voters to vote that they want to and then I would think that's... What's the step by step process? How would you present that to the voters if you want to go townwide? You would present I'm going townwide but then in back of it you'd have to hire the police officers and then you'd have to build the building. It takes time to build the building so that in my head is like that's a step by step process. You would say what the voters would vote on is if you want... just hypothetical. If you want townwide we're talking 2029 or whatever. I'm just saying it's not like you're going to vote on it today and it's going to happen. You made it sound. I don't know. We haven't talked about what that process is. Somebody asked us what is that process? I don't even understand that myself. If you were going to build a new fire station what would be the process? If you're going to build go townwide what does that process look like? I can tell you building a fire station was not fun so you first got to find somebody willing to step up and do it I don't think we've identified the level of service needed outside the district. We haven't had a tremendous amount of problems. Can we just finish this one just before we... We're all projecting different pieces into it. I'm not the only one that's doing that. If we're going to talk about the process I think there has been some conversation about whether those outside of the district need to vote that they want to be part of the district. Would that be step one? I mean if not then you've got two other proposals one to stay the way we are and clearly beef up what we have because we don't have enough coverage and clearly in Vermont right now there's a lot going on and you brought up a good point last time about the Byron hiring security but I left the meeting thinking okay they're hiring security why are they hiring security? That's a huge issue that they had to go to that link and then you've got the one with the modified district but when we go to a public forum I just would like to get your thoughts on we've talked to a lot of people during the last weeks how are we going to highlight that so we're all on the same page and we all have the same talking points and we're...which I think we're trying to do now but you know how are we going to say like we've talked to these people and got this input and these people for this input how are we going to present that so the voters really understand what we've done in the last few weeks does it involve doing some kind of paper handout I mean are we going to do a slideshow or how are we going to do that when we decide those three options do we want someone from the state police to do their challenges as well as Scott talking for a few moments just think about it we all need to prepare ourselves for a public meeting you've made an excellent point I don't know if you practice ahead of time or do something like they do like they do where some of us sit down and actually role model of something to prepare ourselves for it well I think we have lots of statistics about the number of times we met and the stuff we talked about and the guests that we've had we can talk about that maybe it should be not only just talking about it we could do a slideshow but also a handout for those learners who need the visual but also the oral thing people need to hear things three times before it actually sinks in oh no that's jurors I think you bring up some great questions Sheila about we need to get prepared for that public meeting so that we are it seems like we've worked hard at this we have worked hard we want to make sure that people know what we've considered and that we're not just drinking the Kool-Aid of what Scott wants I also don't think that we necessarily as a committee might have a united front at this public meeting right? I mean I think we'll have a united front because we're not talking about what our opinions are I mean this is our chance to put out the different scenarios and some of the facts and let the public tell us what they're thinking and we need to be really clear about that this is not our platform or our soapbox it's the chance to hear from the public but it's also what we've done what we've learned I've learned a lot of things that's happening in the village and out of the village that I didn't know before so that's been educational for me so how do we relay that to everybody I mean I know what I think but it's sticking to the facts and making it clear and I think the mental health issue is huge with everybody that's dealing with it and that it's a whole other component to what we've discovered Are we able to come up with a confident sheet of facts? Are we able to? Are we able to say that the hospital won't call in six years, five times are we able to record those numbers as well the school said he's been there six years and he's called the police department six times so are we able to give them all of the facts in one week and I think that's important to do that can we look at the facts of the state police cover a great share of what happens outside of town and also some of the most dangerous calls that we may or may not have we've brought in businesses that have all said oh yeah I'd love to have the police well why wouldn't they say that if we really think about that we can give them the total facts of those folks that's what I'm interested in I'm happy to put together a power point thing and I can send it around to everybody if you want to take a look at it and see if you want to do a slideshow but we talked about having a moderator to deal with the public we talked about Peter and Alan but I didn't get a response from him the other one that came up later on as we were talking was John Benson what he's doing you said Trini that if we don't provide then once we do that we've bought the responsibility but the state police would still back us up the calls they cover is the primary we would then be needing to man those and take the cost they would only back us up if we couldn't do it for some reason it shouldn't be any different than it would be now right Scott if you called them now I'll remember now kind of putting in the same thing for a family fight and I requested it back up and they were being sent I had the situation actually under control and to meet them because of their delayed response but they were coming Scott and I were in a meeting last night he could look at the thing at six o'clock last night and there were three troopers on for the entire region they covered was called out on a TSU thing up in Morrisville so they had two troopers in our area to respond to any call that came in but they come in from other areas too because the accident in Brookfield had one from Berlin and one from Rockingham they didn't even have a Royalton Barracks one and mysteriously or they're driving back from their meeting in Waterbury and it's like okay I gotta go over here but mysteriously on the interstate when there's a call and the fire department's up there they end up with three or four of them there if they can respond like that when they can because you don't know their story that was also middle of the day summer I think it's a lot of fun that you brought up about the process and the step by step because one of the thoughts that I had had because you're absolutely right even if overnight they voted on having a town-wide police department with six cars and ten officers and a $1.2 million budget it's not going to happen overnight even if they vote on it and approve it I had wondered can we present even a graduated plan that says in 2025 we'll do this in 2026 this will happen in 207 this will happen in 208 this will happen and then we will get to this goal down here in 2029 or whatever that sounds like an excellent idea and I don't know if it's possible to come up with a plan like that but it seems like it might be easier to do and it might be more possible to taxpayer it was the thought that I had so does that mean you have to have multiple votes for the voters who that's it I think in the beginning you need to have a multiple vote you have to have a separate vote of outside of the district and then to see if outside of the district wants this to happen outside of the district I don't think it should be something forced upon from inside of the district so your timing is going to be a challenge here right because if you're going to do a vote outside of the district and it fails then you still need time to do a vote inside the district if you want to expand that's a different set outside of the district than if you want to go townwide you know you're so I think we need to decide about those options yeah we're looking at going you know by the time we get the public information we come back in December to make a recommendation up to the board we're not going to make it in one meeting up at there's no way I don't see us doing it so you know we're in that late December early January when the budget has to be approved and now you have an interesting dilemma because you're coming back out what does that look like do you have to do you're going to have to do some type of you got a couple of votes there timing wise that's a challenge and maybe maybe it takes two voting cycles to get there like it takes three years or whatever to start on a building maybe it takes two voting cycles to get there you could recommend the budget for the existing district for next year and a vote to discuss town-wide do you go town-wide or do you expand it we do want to expand it then it's a combined budget right well as far as our timing goes we got to make sure this public meeting happens on the 28th so we got to nail down a moderator what the forum is and the venue and all that stuff that's three weeks away we can get VTC pretty easy for a venue I'm not worried about the venue as much as I think we can find a person to moderate there's a few of them out there it's more of a what do we present how do we present it what do we do there can we decide on that now I mean I think I think you need to have I think I'm going to repeat myself I think you need to have visuals and handouts and I think we need to have somebody who's going to run it through just talking about the facts but what we've done and what we've seen and what we've heard and the facts and figures and like I offered I put together a PowerPoint um I can do that very quickly and you all can have input on that between now and then because we don't meet again before the 28th do we we haven't been scheduled to but it would be good to check in at some point between then and then I mean I wonder should we meet next week or not because then you've got the week of Thanksgiving and I don't know how flexible is that so I wonder if we should meet next Tuesday also that would be fine with me I mean I can do it but I don't know about anybody else just because we're down to the wire can we meet Wednesday instead can I make a comment you sure can we've been dealing with history and we've been analyzing what has been happening and we do and we do have to present some sort of presentation factual things but Scott do you see issues coming up that are going to require policing that we not yet have experienced maybe that's a blunt that says a blunt yeah and I don't know how you define that look at your crystal ball you know something you're going to happen tomorrow that's going to be a massive police response that could be outside the village it could be inside the village you know they're talking about a national wide protest coming down and it could happen here in town we get the solar eclipse coming in April 24 and you know they're booking up rooms right here in town we've got another critical flood that demands any kind of resources all the way around too how that might all of a sudden it's a good question I mean you do see trends like right now there's a lot of theft there's a lot of petty crime those type of things going on and those all take a lot of resources there's now a lot of random shootings for us in a small Vermont state I think a huge amount I'm not sure one of the seven murders it is and I know no one from Vermont I did see a crossover spike let's clarify that looking at all the data that we had do you want to just dig through it and put some bullet points out there do you want people to talk about what things they think are important to show to help guide you because we got the number of meetings I have the number of meetings head come speak what other data you want to I think we should put the fingerprinting I'm just kidding and how much money we're going to make off that budget in the future and what it's going to cost forever do you want to have the what do you want folks you tell me what you want in it do you want to save money do you want to do the number of calls business all that stuff a number of calls per month, week, day, year the biggest number is going to be annual right annual for this year is from like March till now but yeah but we have didn't we get some of the data did we get any of the data from before from when when Orange County was doing it I was thinking we've seen some yeah do you have that because I can go dig in my archive and see if there might be something in there number of calls and it would have been in the voting packet number of calls and the number of calls that are in versus number of calls out does anybody want like the nature of the calls or do we want just in general a number of times I don't know that we want to go through and literally count them to say there's so many speeding or so many of this but you might want to say this includes everything from traffic violations to thefts to domestic violence so just sort of hit the highlights maybe you could tell us a list of what you think that was that would be important do you think do you see highlighted from traffic to I think you can get it some of them are minor things like traffic stops and other things are major like domestic violence or school violence and some are supporting the state police when they can't get here maybe we want to hit on what services the state police are covering these are the ones the Randolph PD is covering and these are the ones the state police are covering these are the the picture of what all the calls are in the town and how they're being provided right now that you guys are on duty per week individually are you covering 80 hours a week, 100 hours a week what does that figure do now I mean per day let's just do it by day we usually cover from 7 to 11 my work from 7 until whenever I get done 8 I do think it's important for them to get the message that in the existing service it's not 24-7 that there is a time at which the Randolph PD goes off and the state police are backing it up I'm smaller for slides in terms of each model so you get them through by broad category which is we broken them out and then can repackage these and so I think when you were all talking I had sort of three pictures in my head for each model you might have that budget sheet in terms of what went into it especially if you're talking about how to scale where we're at what the existing looks like and how you sort of scale out so here's that budget for existing and then maybe the next slide is doctorate considerations and then the next slide might be process so if we end up here what's that path look like we'll summarize that and then we'll do it for each of the models and then you also have that piece just going back and trying to read quickly through we went through all of this last spring we got an opinion from the attorney of some of these process elements so we'll fill those out get him to bless those to make sure we don't miss anything or we haven't been there since then I found the Orange County and state police march to march we should explain what our proposal is modified this pretty quick yeah and what about the mental health component of what you have to deal with and the drug that kind of thing that it exists and sometimes also you come in and you have to pick up where the state police need your help they didn't have time to get it I think that's important should the mental health go into the two phases like the immediate crisis part and then what happens after the law enforcement role is done right because we heard there was kind of that follow on peace and I think when you're showing your numbers your tax numbers for the different proposals that it might be helpful if you took an example like an average house cost and what that number is you mentioned that joke I agree I would really simplify it yeah it'll make people feel that we're more transparent a lot of people don't understand what cents are exactly you know I have to say okay if you own a $250,000 home this is what it would cost you if districts remain the same modified or expanded districts that they truly understand that numbers I think the mental health piece is no important I think Scott had mentioned in a couple meetings back that he filled three or four calls a month on a mental health thing does the state police have that data as well I realize it's outside the district but how many do they go on in a month because we've heard Scott say that he had three to four calls a month so because remember we also had that conversation could be teamed up with other towns or whatever for having that embedded mental health worker if you will that said I think if you're going to do it district wide understanding what that number would be which would include how many does the state police actually go on as well to add to that number you said district wide you mean town wide so town wide how many do they actually go on when did they actually go on one thing we couldn't get out of safe flying was how many times have you called the police they really didn't have a number for that we said well we've gotten different calls and blah blah blah but in the same thing like Claremont how many times have you called well we like to have them back us what does that really happen I think those are the facts that need to come up like the hospital said well I've been the administrator there for eight years or seven years or whatever it was and I've called the police six times same thing with the school school said like five times I can dig through and I can find those numbers to put that out there I think it's important to know those numbers exactly what they're the challenge with that though is some of the comments made they don't reconcile they don't that's what I got from when Safe Line came in and said your numbers don't match well theirs did because those were the services they provided and law enforcement necessarily wasn't part of all those services provided so you would I don't think we can quote any of the Safe Line data as specific law enforcement services because we didn't get that number broke out it was more to give you a taste of this stuff going on that there happened basically that DV is a problem in case you thought it didn't happen in our little town it does right and 42 people utilized their service not saying it was all police involved but they were there but I know when you're saying you know six happened here or this didn't happen but in my mind I'm thinking if it was me and if I needed that service even if it was once a year it was there for me I have to be proactive as a community to educate people that we might need that service it's available if we do need it too and thank goodness it doesn't happen as many times sometimes but it's there same with you know responding to overdoses you know like I've never needed anybody to help me come out of an overdose but I think it's important that our community provides that service for other people it's the same thing it is unfortunately it takes often somebody to actually need the service before they understand that it's valuable so just to go back to what you had mentioned and Joe had kind of hit on this with the translation of the sense so one of the things we've done for some of the regular budget documents have just done these little taxpayer impact tables we've taken three categories of home value we mostly do it on the residential piece it translates the same if your business property value is any of these but we can put together some of these for each model that show what that increase would be in terms of dollars for the year and we would just probably keep them similar in format so should we do the this was this year's budget as past this is what you should have had you know to provide the services in the existing this is what the tax would look like to do the modified and then to do the townwide I mean we could add a couple of more rows basically to say FY24 and then sort of show it out well here's what you paid in FY24 for the town for the district so the folks that are there that are in the district can see what the difference would be to them I think that's important and then do the one and then do the modified and the other because you're going to change your brainless value going into that budget with each of those scenarios so you're not going to really have a true comparable but if they can say well today I pay X under this scenario I'll pay Y Z unfortunately this is going to come down to money on a lot of these boats and we have now with the new changes and the everything happening since COVID and the cost of people for living we have more people in this town right now on the verge of losing their properties than we've ever had and using the food shelf and other services and you know you're looking at adding this and I hear people say it's only $400 or it's only $800 that's huge for a lot of these families they can't swing what they got now that's a big add-on so I think the way it looks at the meeting is we run through the slides anything that's related to budget over to Trevor and he explains that part with the three different yeah pretty sure I'll get ya I'll get you that vaccine right start with that and then open it up to questions and comments and the moderator who are the options for the moderator we were looking at Peter now and John Benson's name came up but we didn't talk about him or not but I know he does a pretty good job with some of the Brookfield stuff but just making it the moderator whoever it is making it clear that this is not we want to hear from you you know if you have questions we'll try to answer them but we just want to know we want to give you this information and then hear what your concerns are and what your thoughts are right now if anybody actually comes to this thing oh I think they're sparked right up I hope that they do we haven't made any decisions yet this is our information gathering opportunity here so as long as we I think now I have a much better understanding of our process so then we can relay that to the public and talk about like this this could look a lot of different ways like you know we could have one vote in March you could have multiple votes on bonds and all kinds of stuff or we can spread this out over several years and you know depending on what the needs are and what your what the input is but ultimately is the is the whatever goes to the voters in March up to the select board right so hopefully they'll be at this meeting too so they have a big understanding of what we present we talked about warning it as a joint thing because if you have more than two members of the board you have to warn it right oh and are we taking notes at this public comment like is Kim going to be able to come to take notes are we going to record it or what are we going to do I think we should be able to record it and then having a scribe for example might be valuable too that's what Montcalers done with a lot of the flood response so to make sure they capture it they have more than one scribe in some cases and then the advertising piece of it the mediums that we're going to advertise at this meeting and like I said I think that we have to use all of the forums whether it's front page forum whether it's Facebook or whatever social media that's out there town website just all the different advertising mediums the Randall 5 it'll be live so we could use that one too that's cool just so folks do know that it's coming we'll use the newspaper too make sure there's something in there did we decide that we're meeting next week? not yet we're still working through the items to decide if we need to okay I'm jumping the gun that's good though so Peter Nolan you say that was fine was that a phone call or an email it was a phone call usually he answers he still like it he could be we'll do some more soul searching I remember that I can probably pull one from the old LCT with moderators training you just want somebody who's trained and have a handle of large crowd that's what we're looking for is just somebody that can leave the thing and just kind of their instructor's never changed so we just probably work through that list and see I don't think some of them are near enough I don't know if he's still around but Steve Jeffery just lives in Northfield where he did that's a good one he has some pretty cool ones he has some pretty cool ones and now I just lost do we want to say Kristen who came before us so we have a list of who you did discuss the final report drafting just wanted to make sure that's your workflow process you've got plenty to do you're obviously not at a recommendation point that's a nice chair's job right so and we can help in terms of just building a framework and then just seeing what you want to put in in terms of and it would probably follow a similar kind of process of an executive summary essentially review process tasks assigned to the select board timeline everything you looked at everybody came in go through the talk about the different budget models all the different pieces with it different process elements and then at some point what goes to the select board is kind of the concluding statement recommendations right yeah so that may follow in along with basically the PowerPoint can probably cut and paste it to a yeah should we just be making recommendations or should we express concerns so some of what I've heard is that there's a concern of affordability but also of not having the coverage like what does this look like and what how does that happen so that may build us up to a phased piece instead of a cut and dry I think there's some concerns there of what does this look like and where do we go I think we need to express the concern to the select board of wanting the folks that are not currently part of the district to actually get a vote of joining those type of things that are more things that we want to get in there that aren't I guess the recommendation could say that you follow the path kind of why why are we recommending this we've spent a lot of time with the group trying to get that 360 understanding of everything that's happening and what we need and where we're at and what the gap is between those two so passing that along and that experience and what you've gleaned yeah I think that could be a whole other section I mean you could have we could all agree on certain recommendations but then we could also have individual concerns or things that we heard about from the public that you know of no you know we don't want you to miss we think it's important that you're aware blah blah well isn't the wraparound service or the after law enforcement service one of those like this isn't part of law enforcement but the town should look at how to work with somebody to follow up with those folks or to take it that next step or to have that more whether it's it would be embedded worker whether it's contractual services or whatever we've explained what that is right but as the person what we heard some of that was more of there needs to be additional services out there for the families and the people impacted by like the overdose case but not like that to me isn't necessarily a contracted service in the police budget that's more of a you know we should be reaching out and developing some type of network that whether Claire Martin Center's part of it or whoever's part of that network but kind of what is that that Scott can say hey here here's a card call this group they'll help you with how to get services or how to get this person this or that or whatever you know that to me isn't part of the police budget it's not part of what we're tasked with but it's something the select board ought to have a heads up of service that's needed it would benefit there were certain people in the community that would benefit from this like don't lose track of this item I mean we never even I don't think we've talked about here about the lack of a turning point center that we're the only county without one I mean there's that thinking of the overdose thing like that's what every other county does is they have recovery coaches and they have people embedded in the at the hospital you know to take on the overdose people and those folks the money the town doesn't pay for those folks either but it's a service that is necessary here we are the only county without one the whole state we do not have a turning point center and it's been an effort for seven years trying to get one working with Gifford and stuff and it has not happened I think we heard some of those things too where folks were like here's a forum maybe we can bring this issue forward and we don't want to lose track of those but they're not necessarily going to be in the work product we do if we don't make that list of pay attention to these pieces one of the things that I was thinking back to is when we had the Orange County Sheriff and we had compared to the budget today someone brought up the thought and maybe it was you Scott they didn't have as much overhead as what we have to have now because they had all their vehicles they had all their police you know what I mean so they could offer us that service at a lower amount that it has spread out it's not one exactly but when we take this on ourselves then it makes perfect sense that it's going to cost us more than it did when we contracted with them because we have to get those other things I don't know who wants to throw that in there if that's asked but it's a point and speaking of which I wonder if there's going to be people who are like why can't we just have this sheriff do it again who's going to explain that they are not capable I won't speak for them but it doesn't seem that they have to staff but I wonder if George should be invited as well to this public forum I don't know it's only fair to give them some heads up of what we've done and where we're going with this though too and I think that we have George we have the state police or whoever else wants to be a part of it if you look at the history of it and the budgets I have before the Orange County Sheriff police department disbanded if you will and the Orange County Sheriff came in and took over their budgets were $650,000 give or take of course that was a number of years ago five years ago whatever it may be and then they reduced the budget down to that $500,000 and whatever way they were able to do that I don't know and then here we come back five years later with if it's just the town an $800,000 budget it actually kind of falls in line to where they were because I think basically there may be some thought out there not accusing anything or saying that it was almost spread inside of a county wide budget you know if you will well we come with our cars and we come with this and we come with all that you know so it reduced their budget for that period of time and then they said well we no longer can do this we don't have the staff or whatever the whole reason really kind of shook it off to be hence we went back and said okay we're going to have a police department just as much and then the public said we don't want to pay that we don't want to pay that you know what we had paid so here we sat today here we sat today Trevor do you remember which meeting we had that got cancelled at the last minute was it in September it was September one of the September ones we had one just recently that we changed the date on October I thought I thought at the beginning of October it was the beginning of October because a couple of us actually came we pushed it one week we pushed it a week we pushed it one week forward we just moved it to the next week so it might have been the third it was well we met October 17 so it must have been the week before that like the twelfth or something the tenth but either way all right we got somewhat of a October 10th was postponed so you met 17th and 24th okay thank you I think otherwise you were check your full counter again I'd like to ask if we were to meet next week that we did talk about another meeting here before the public hearing which I think is a great thing to do can we meet is anybody amenable to meeting on Wednesday versus Tuesday I can meet next week on Tuesday not Wednesday the Tuesday is better for me Wednesday I would just be remote it might feel like I should be back on time on Tuesday I don't quite know I think Wednesday might be a problem for me I might be a little bit late on Tuesday I'll be here would I help if we change some time to five because I was thinking I might not get out of the woods until dark dark and dark is five dark thirty I'm over in Bethel you don't have to dress up for us I'm not coming in I'm a fun flat Trevor will make fun of me since I picked on his beard this week you should wear that next time whatever night you go I'll be here so we're sticking with Tuesday yeah we're sticking with Tuesday I'll get here I'm just coming off Christian Hill are you going to smell? no no hockey gear or anything as bad as hockey benchmarking exercise nothing new research follow up tasks for next meeting sounds like we've got a few related to the forum I'll put together the powerpoint between now because we've got a holiday weekend I've got all kinds of time thank you for your time thank you we can copy this I'll get a copy of this to you this is the Orange County and state police from March to March okay I'll give you some reason I had it in my archives here usually I have those archives piled in with other archives at home okay communication and correspondence before I say we don't have at least to think we've had the one from Marty about his communication that wasn't in a minute so that's the communication you had right and somebody told me about a letter nothing that came in our formal communication but there was a letter to the editor in the newspaper this week from the same people I think who came to the in the public comment and they said the same thing that they said here in the paper don't need the police services from the USP from Fish Hill I didn't see that one alright the next one is the one you all jumped at well are we ready I move that we adjourn I can hear Scott's stomach growling I move that we adjourn I second all those in favor thank you