 It's great to see you all and it's great to see colleagues from the Department of Defense and General, it's good to see you and colleagues from the Army and from the Naval Service and from the Air Corps. But we're here really to listen to Maureen. Maureen's been a friend of mine for probably too long. Forty-two years. Forty-two years. A long time to be idle. But we're delighted to welcome you here, Maureen, for in your role as Deputy Military Advisor to the UN under Secretary-General for Peace Operations. And we're delighted you've given you a generous time. I think it would be appropriate if I just paused for a moment yesterday and on Monday. Monday evening I was at the removal, but yesterday Maureen was at the funeral and the before the removal of Hedel Doris, Captain Hedel Doris, a classmate of Maureen. And I think our thoughts should be with her, Roger Kate, and own her son. And I suppose at that point we also remember Maureen's other classmate, Mary Jo, who was also close friend of mine, who died some time ago, but she was also in the same class with Mary Jo. And we think about her and Parik and Christian, her son. So if you would like to bear with us for about 15 minutes, maybe 20 minutes Maureen will talk to us, and then we'll go into a Q&A session. And I have for those who are online and welcome all those who are online, we'll take your questions through the chat function on the Zoom system. Please identify yourself if you have a question and the institution, if there is one to which you are affiliated. And we'll come to that at the end of the presentation for from Mary Maureen. All the questions and the presentation will be on the record. Please feel free to use the Twitter handle at IEEA. And we're also, as I said, live streaming so we're very happy to take the discussion from those who are on YouTube. So I'm going to formally introduce Maureen, and I didn't hand her over to you. Major General Maureen O'Brien graduated from University College Galway with a BSc and a HDIP in education before being awarded a cadetship in Oakley, here in 1981. And since then she has held many different appointments and operations, training and strategic planning. She has achieved a number of firsts for women in the Irish Defence Forces, becoming the first woman to be promoted to left and colonel in 2011. And in 2021 she was appointed to her current role as deputy military advisor to the UN undersecretary general for peace operations. Major General Maureen O'Brien has a massive extensive overseas service, most recently as deputy force commander and not undefined in Syria and prior to that peacekeeping operations in Chad and Lebanon and I think East Timor as well. And elsewhere, I think perhaps later this week Maureen will be awarded the University of Galway's Alumni Award for law, public policy and society. So I'd also like to extend my congratulations to Maureen on outstanding achievement. So Maureen, the floor is yours. So, it's funny. In 2008 I did a thesis on UN resolution 1325 and the title was UN resolution 1325 just add women and stir a recipe for gender stereotyping in the in UN peacekeeping operations. And I think that I would then be in the UN headquarters where I could affect some change in my current role as the millet. And as it happens, and I'll discuss it later what I saw in 2008 did come to pass there was some, and there still is some stereotyping that we'll have to deal with. I'll read some notes and there will be some ad label given opportunity for speaking and to be afraid to ask questions. I won't necessarily have all the answers but I can give you the benefit of the experience I have had. So, you'll all have all know of course that UN resolution 1325 women peace and security is generally regarded as the most important commitment made by the global community to incorporate a gender perspective in the maintenance of peace and security. The Security Council formally recognized the different impacts of armed conflict on women and men. And one of the aims of the resolution is to expand the role and contribution of women in the UN field operations. So, when I did my thesis I examined the literature and the policies from the UN, and I found that the UN UN basically essentialized men and women into different characteristics. And by doing so, they started typed women into one women are good and soft and men are violent and and aggressive. And this goes through all of the documentation that I found. And so, when I got to New York I wanted to see what was the cause of that and whether I could change that perspective, because I think it's an impediment towards the actual role that the UN resolution is trying to do increase the role. It's not just about numbers. So, unfortunately, that perspective is also shared by troop contributing nations. They also consider they stereotype women into certain roles in order to get their numbers of women in their forces up. When you're working with the UN and the troop contributing countries believing that there is a difficulty and it is difficult to shift. And so more about that later. So I just want to tell you a little bit about the work that the Office of Military Affairs that I work in Office of Military Affairs is part of the Department of Peace Operations. It has 100 approximately 100 secondary officers from 40 different nationalities. We have just 100 people to plan, deploy, assess and conduct intelligence work for 12 different peacekeeping missions. 68,000 people. 68,000 people. And I asked myself when I arrived in the UN, and I saw that we only had one sort of three quarters of a sliver of one floor. What in fact was everybody else doing. It's not a lot of work but certainly what I'm on point I'm making is the very, the small dedication to the, to the people who are on the ground the 68,000 people. That's what struck me. It still strikes me. So, so what we're trying to do in the context of women peace and security is we're trying to reach gender parity and there is a UN uniformed gender parity strategy. And basically it sets targets for years from 2018 up to 2028. Some of them are being achieved and some are not. So, so the yeah. Okay. In May, 2020 to today, together with a member states, we've managed to increase the share of women deployed as individual uniform personnel by 3.3% from 18 1% in 2020 it's all figures. Right. Yeah, to 21.4% in April 2023. So we're currently achieving that strategy, the gender target for this year already. I'll say but the individual uniformed personnel are basically staff officers and almost. And what we will find is that troop contributing countries find it more easy to to appoint females into those positions. Because they don't distract. They're not come necessarily combat related. Although, if you don't know what goes on a contingent is very difficult, in my opinion, to be a staff officer who would be involved with contingents. So it's like, you have to understand what's going on the ground to be an operations officer. And sometimes then what you find is those women from different nationalities who don't do combat roles is that they have to work extra hard to understand what's going on, and extra hard to be seen to be doing the right job, and we put an unfair burden on them as well. So for conginges that the progress is slower we have modest increase from 4.83% in 2020 to 6.5 in April 2023. So why why as I explained basically most troop contributing countries and I call them TCC's most TCC's do not have women in what they call combat roles in infantry roles, normal soldiering. And if they have they're only starting. And so they haven't reached a stage where they could be maybe a chief of staff of mission or deputy chief of staff are deputy force commander or force the mentor so that's the difficulty we have. And so what they happen to be is that they, they, which I will say is they've got these females and they put them into stereotypical roles. So, in terms of leadership though, which is not all about the numbers women continue to be represented by me. I am, as the Dean Milat but also we have a force commander in Cyprus major general as well. And up to recently we had a deputy force commander in Syria, and but we do have currently won deputy force commander as a general in Western Sahara. On the fourth of July. The, the force commander of Cyprus will move back to Norway. And on the fourth of July, when there's a big party I would be leaving mission after two years. So it's gonna be a big party could fireworks and all just to get rid of us okay. So, but what do we mean then is at that point in time, they will only be one Brigadier General female in the 12 peacekeeping missions that we have. And I'm not even aware that we have a colonel, but that rotates every six months and a year so that could change. So what concrete measures have we done in the in OMA. What we do is we, if, for example, if a TCC is providing a number of staff officers for a particular mission we insist that a number of those are female. And that's just a fact we just don't allow all female. We prioritize equally qualified women candidates for uniform appointments in the office of military fair fairs. And what I also have to do a regional balance so this is a bit chop and changing but I'll tell you one of the things that we did recently is that. Well, I did this and I'm very proud of this and see how it works. I think it would put nominate up to 20 people for one appointment, and it could be more. And that puts a huge burden on us, because we have to process all of those. And they don't prioritize them in the case day of Ireland they don't even put one name forward assuming they put the best person forward. And so it is in line with the gender policy, parity policy, we would accept as many people as they wanted as long as 25% included suitably qualified women. So that means what essentially is going to happen is they will only be able to nominate three men. And what's that going to do in the end the guys at the back, you know, said, I'm not going to get a chance to go to the US which is highly coveted. We have a suitably qualified woman that means they have to open the courses to the women, so to ensure that they have the same experiences as the men. So we'll see how that works out they're complaining at the moment. Yeah, I'm not listening. I also have engagement platoons and I had, when I was told about these engagement platoons in 2019 I said well you can forget it. Ireland's not going to do that engagement platoons were seen at the time has been 100% women what they did is their function was to engage with the local population, all very admirable I'm not saying that the, the, the engagement platoon does is not right and as a commander certainly I would use engagement between, but to say that it must be 100% women is is wrong in my opinion, because the population is 5050 at least. Now, in most of the countries that we are deployed, it would be a difficult it would be difficult for men to talk to women and that's recognized. One tender consequence of this is that women were basically, I use the word corraled because I've heard this being used before corraled into you go to the engagement to. So, I said, no way Ireland do that we spend a fortune training our women and men, as more, you know, APC drivers, you know, highly qualified professional people, and then you say, you're going to an engagement between because you're a woman. Not only because you're a woman, not even because you've been able you've been trained in the work that you're supposed to do they're just put. So I, I've met a particular officer who was in charge of an engagement platoon in South Sudan. And she was an engineer. What a waste of talent. Right. Anyway, so what we have done to change that now it has to be 5050 men and women, and they have to be trained. But it has to be said as well for those women who are not combatant or will not be considered any in any other role it's a great opportunity to go overseas, and their work is very valuable. You shouldn't just miss the engagement between all together. So enabling environments are one of the things we're trying to work on as well. A recent focus on the work has shifted away from numbers to a discussion and creating enabled environments for women and men to be able to participate in a full equal and meaningful way. We work on outstanding potential understanding the potential barriers to women and men's full equal and meaningful participation related to the work that they're doing. In this context, we have recently conducted a survey to gain a better understanding on deployment experiences. Now this is not rocket science. And if I hear one more survey been done on barriers, we know what the barriers are. We know that the TCC's are not employing women fairly, and they are not pushing putting them in allowing allowing them into what they considered to be combat roles. We're closely working with the contact and discipline service here in New York, when in New York on how to prevent and respond to sexually sexual harassment. For example, in consultation with our contact and discipline, discipline colleagues OMA has recently sent out to communicate to the military components about zero tolerance against sexual harassment abuse and discrimination. And to be an active, when you see something to be active in reporting it and to report it straight away. We have also integrated lessons on how to create an enabling environment in guidelines and new training materials. For instance, we have developed innovative case study handbook on gender, peace and security for UN infantry battalions in peace operations and other military personnel. And this is the final review. It contains practical scenario based case studies for UN infantry battalions at command and planning level, as well as for troops. Another example is the guidelines on how to integrate a gender perspective perspective into the work of the military component, which have been recently updated. So we've done good important lessons on how to integrate a gender perspective into the work of the military component of UN peace operations as strategic operational and tactical levels. The Canadians have set up what they call an LC initiative where they basically are are providing accommodation suitable accommodation for women in a number of missions. These responsibilities provide the combination at the early stage and the mission support who's supposed to maintain that. The difficulty I have with this again is that a corralling women into a corner, and all of them go down to one corner it's locked up, etc. Because all we do of course is we paint our nails and flat our hair. And we have so much in common, all ranks have everything in common. And, you know, just because of women again, we could be plunked there. I have objected to this because as women progress through the ranks, we don't want to be for command purposes, you cannot be in the same place as the troops are. If I am battalion commander, do you think for one minute I'm going to be down in Corral in, in, in, in a little place. I know, thank you very much. So there has to be a little bit more thought put into that. Now it does suit some particular TCCs who like corralling their way. And I'm using that word because that's the word that was used to me. But they have already done three pilot programs in Moscow, in Congo, Mali, and in UNICEF, which is a mission between South Sudan and Sudan. I've seen them myself. They are very, very, very good accommodations. It's the way every accommodation should be. We should be raising the standard for everybody, not just women. And, you know, when I joined the Defense Forces first, one of the arguments was, you know, we don't have any accommodation, we don't have the proper toilets. And I said, if they're not proper toilets and accommodation for me, they're not proper and good enough for men. That didn't go down terribly well. Our military leaders and heads of missions have participated in sessions on gender responsive leadership, which will contribute to strengthening leadership capabilities in this area. Interestingly, during the time that I've been in UN, a lot of ASGs, my level and above, we underwent a gender responsive leadership course, which was very, very good. And you know what, you think you know it all, but you don't. You have to keep on reminded. I mean, the basic things is the language we use. If the language we use is not inclusive, you know, we have to think about that. For example, the word manpower was used all the time. I have a particular and I've always had a particular dislike for that. But because it's not inclusive. And it is, it is banned in the office of military fairs. And I think what it does sometimes it dehumanizes people. And it doesn't take into account that we're all individuals. Even just small languages. I mean, some people in my in the office of military affairs, never saw a female officer, let alone a general, you know, so, and I was being called surfer a long time. And, but they thought that was a good thing. I was an honorary man. So I understood it wasn't. We'll say drug, but certainly it wasn't what I wanted. So we changed that. So we've included these in our standard standard operating procedures, everything we do, all our documentation, everything that we produce has a gender focus, or at least gender, you know, that they think about the words. I have people thinking about the words now. I mean, when the word comes out of their mouth, you could see them going. A person or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So at least, I think I've made a difference in that that respect along that will last after I go I don't know. So we also have in each mission we have gender, gender focal points. Indeed, in each unit there's a gender focal point. And I think some people get mixed up with what that person is supposed to do, but in any event, the fact that they're all women is not helpful, and we've tried to change that. So we have a community of gender focal points and there's, we have a resource hub set up for them as well. We've conducted the first UN military gender advisors was course and in 2021. And we have initiated the development and pilot of the first network for uniformed women peacekeepers in June 2023. Now, not sure that will work either, but let's see how it goes. You know there's a lot of people who think they know an awful lot about military people. And the civilians I often in the UN thank them for their military advice. And my 42 years obviously didn't didn't count for much. We have done some research and partnerships and also we, this is a very interesting one actually in 2021 we launched a new set of gender parity reports, which receive positive feedback from the different stakeholders including the TCC's report this report is seven sent them every month to to the the TCC's and what it tells them is the how they are reaching are the targets that we've set in terms of gender does a lot more than that but it's sometimes very good to when you see it nicely pie chart how badly they're doing. So, we also have a military gender advocate of the year award show showcasing the extraordinary individuals, and their distinct contribution to peacekeeping that they have met this year the winner was from Ghana extraordinary woman who was actually the Ptoon commander of negating Ptoon, which he took it very seriously. She was very qualified and had trained in it beforehand, and expected an awful lot from the women and men that she did she had plans, plans of what they wanted to achieve. I mean, it has to be said these engagement tunes are a force protection measure as well, and Intel intelligence gathering they're not all soft and cuddly. And I did talk to you about the engagement between it is important to have women seen as well, because you know we're trying to be reflective of the communities that we serve, and they include women. So, so that's about increasing numbers, but you know, does that where does that go does that lead us to. And that's just adding the women and stirring. Right. To have the full equal and meaningful participation of women in visiting the resolution, I think we have to go further. So, I think we have to work harder I get women into more leadership roles. And this is difficult when in in the military as I said in some TCC's that they don't have they're not training in the combat roles. It's just a change. I will go off of scripture but I'm, you know there's a number of, I wouldn't just name the number of TCC's who are very proud of the huge contribution they have made in terms of numbers. And it is extraordinary the number of people that they have deployed all over the 12 missions, but there's a competition between the four of them, of who has the most. And I learned it and I said, you know, we're not talking about numbers here anymore. We're talking about, as they do they say how many force commanders we have how many deputy force commanders. And I'm doing now, and how many females have you got how many have you gotten the contingents. And that's what I'm comparing. Now the bottom line I say to them is that, if you do not include women in those roles in the planning in the operations you're going to get this group think it's going to be the same story the same result all the time. But if you include any form of diversity you're going to, you're going to mix that up and get a better product in the end. So, not alone is it important for you and resolution one three five, so that we're seen to be doing the right thing. It is important in terms of the effectiveness of the unit or the military themselves. So, when I speak to representatives from these four nations I said, say to them, you know, you are becoming a less effective force. You have, you have now taken on that you use the word risk management, yet you are now allowing yourself, potentially, to be less good and efficient and effective through just thinking the same way. Then your country beside your neighbor beside you. And when they hear that, when they hear that the country beside them, possibly has started more work, Nepal for example has started work. I mean, that their, their own internal hostilities they found that their women are fighting against them so why shouldn't there be women fighting for them are with them. And the more you have and the more senior women you have the more invested, the more the more invested the women will come. And the more it changes the dynamic of the whole culture of that that military changes, and to a certain extent numbers are awfully important to get to that sort of critical number. But if you don't have role models if you don't have people who in senior positions that can affect change. There will be no change. And due to there's just ways that I can ensure that we try to get women I told you about, you know, if they don't, I contacted all of the military police units in the 12 missions to see if they included for example that the women in the peacekeeping in the military police unit, because that would be awfully important considering there are men and women in all of the camps. So, I found out once he CC didn't have and I contacted their military advisor in UN and he said, Well, it's not our culture. And I said, Well, you know what it is. It is the UN culture. And if you don't change will replace you. Funny enough, it was their culture. They got it in the end. So, you know, demanding that people change. And you know I know culture is important, but it's not culture in a lot of cases. It's not it's about not sharing and not wanting and underestimating the amount of times that have been underestimated. It's great to be a woman sometimes, because you can only surprise people if you're, you know, if they continually underestimating. So that's one way we do it. So, you know, there's subtle ways that we can achieve this. And it starts in thinking, if they're not selected, if you know if somebody's not selected. For example, we were doing an interview or we were trying to identify a senior position who would go for it. I looked at the TCC. I looked at their track record in terms of how many people they had how many women they had and many and in that particular mission. And the decision was between two. And that was what decided in the end how many women they had, particularly at the higher level. And that's what I went for. So they were, I suppose, it is a bit carrot and stick, but unfortunately that's the only thing that that works. Now, I think I've come nearly to the end of the official stuff. Yeah, just one thing about how people say well why do you need women there you know I'm stuff I don't just fight. There's no need. I don't bother I did that back in 19. What was it you want, just for why we should, you know, I, that's not important anymore. Let's move on. That battle is that that's well having said that there are still people talking to talking about. What's important to the US War College in in Rhode Island. And there are still conversations about whether or not women should be in the military, or in the Navy, in particular parts. They're hung up with the, as a lot of people are with the physical standards. And the thing is, you know, they don't include flexibility in these physical standards if they did have the men wouldn't pass it. Yeah. So it's important that they can understand the physical standards are lowered as you get older. They can get that, but can't get that there might be a different standard for women. I explained that to me. So anyway, I've, I've told you, I haven't stuck to my notes, but I think I leave it there. Yeah. Thank you very much. And just to remind everybody and those online and those here use the hashtag. And we're open for questions and I have some questions coming in there, but just to recap on some points and I think you opened up with the point of stereotyping and the progress since then and I always think of the the 15 BT young scientists winners who are Balancholic Secretary School, who actually won the award on the fact that women are children as five to seven female children are being stereotyped by the five to seven year old classmates. Well, they're a societal issue. But what I am impressed is is the enabling environment and all the strategy that you have outlined there, dealing with the issue of zero tolerance to sexual harassment, integrating the gender perspective, the issue of gender responsible leadership, the issue of having gender advisors and delighted to have Ethan and Jane Lawler here. You've blaze the trail in terms of ensuring that gender advisors within our defense forces are institutionalized and also looking for gender, gender parity, gender parity report and finally, you know, the pursuing role models, because, you know, can't see can't be. And that's the critical piece and on that point I just want to commend you for your leadership. So I have a question here from me more steward and I'll start with that and please, we have a roving Mike, if necessary. She, immer is a student at University of Limerick and she said, the Defense Forces has translated the women piece extremely well, whilst working on the ground with civilians during peacekeeping operations, but she wants to know how well has the WPS women piece of security gender being translated within the ranks of the Defense Forces itself. I can't for that and I'm not going to speak about that I just fence forces and that is different conversation. In my capacity in as D millet, I'm not actually Irish I'm an international civil servant, who happens to be seconded. I think you probably put it in terms of from a policy perspective. Yeah. And I see a regular General Gerard Hearn. He raises the point that troops in combat roles are deployed to UN forces are predominantly from Asia and Africa, and what efforts are ongoing to rebalance the geographical spread of TCC is deploying. And is there any growing appetite for European forces to engage in deploying forces to UN forces very good question. I've met the, I've met a lot of European forces in Africa. When French moved out or can moved out, it left a gap of vacuum and I think actually Europe may this is my opinion, not the UN opinion may have by moving out of the number of missions in Europe. They have actually left a vacuum for others to fill. And that was the reason they left that others were there. And now they've left a vacuum that the others can completely use. The next same question asked by a German the Germans are moving out of Mali in by by February of March next year. Asking who's replacing it is it. Well, you know, really, who's replacing it. It's really they shouldn't they don't need to know that we are working hard at doing that we might not be able to get the same capability, but we're doing our very best. The trouble is, as, as General has said, that it is the same TCC is again the Africans, the Asians that are going forward. And the reason for there are many reasons for that there would appear to me to be a two level two tiered kind of military. Those who, if I may say and I say to others that take care of soldiers who respect that a year's deployment is not is too long. It's just the conditions. Six months is the correct the UN used to do six months deployments now they do it for a year. That's all about money. Nothing else. But there are issues about, we'll say, with six months deployments in that, you know, you're not sooner there but you're left and you're making up, you're making relationships and need to continue those relationships. So what I've said is yes we can do that we can have military people for there for up to four years, just contractors. Oh, no, we don't need them that much. So the efforts, Missy is Africa, it should be there should be African troops. And I believe that and I know that one of the force commanders recently who left to us from your said, it should have been an African force commander. I can't say any better than that they're they're foreign policies, you know, I don't always agree with them. And, Declan, you have a question. Microphone and Declan power. I'm on the security defense group with the you know, and to amplify points that you made there and the general her name as well. In my own experience it seemed in Africa that where you had a conglomeration of African forces and I get the point about African boots and the ground to solve African problems and I largely agree with that. I want to change the culture, particularly with about integrating women. I think it makes sense to try and have some sort of injection of Western troops at different ranks and levels, because explaining the concepts about integration of women are, you know, the concepts that are sometimes alien to some of the forces would say the human rights points as well doesn't work until they see it in action. And in that note, the question I would ask is sometimes coffee and I'm himself said in 96 I think that he wished there were there was a NATO in Africa that he could contract missions to the same way is done elsewhere. There's a goal for conglomerates like the EU, like NATO to get more involved in integrated missions and is there any appetite for that in the West because it would rise all tides integration of women, human rights, military operating capacity. Very good. In fact, I think NATO are actually trying to get more involved in the integrative at the more comprehensive approach. NATO strictly military up to now really, but they want to get involved in the political side, which the UN has experienced and whether it's going to happen after another day's work, but it's at least there and at least it's trying. We're looking at partnerships, we're looking at, we're looking at how peacekeepers will change the future we have a huge amount of challenges in the missions that we have at the moment. One of which is the host countries that asked us to go there no longer want us are curtail the work that we do. We have reduced freedom of movement. That's what we want to bring on other partners which they're just entitled to do, but restrict our activity within particular zones that those other parties are in. So we can't have. So there's a difficulty there. There is no peace to keep in a lot of these places as well. And every day there's a new armed group that that that that's right. But basically, our role in Africa predominantly is protection of civilians until the political there is a political agenda and a way forward. Yeah, I think they're, I think there is but I think you what you might find actually between the EU NATO and the UN is a little bit of not wanting to share either. Yeah. I come to you in a moment. I just was reflecting there on one of the questions that come in come in here is the statistics with regards to a female involvement in peace negotiations and oversight of implementation of police piece of cards, and remarkable gap in terms of the success where women are involved vis a vis if they're not involved. And I see a question here from Mary van Lysh out of gold. She wants to know, you know, in your own career, how many. How can we get more women leaders in the global south into local peace talks, I presume with view to that point. I think I've asked this question myself you know we're torturing ourselves in the military trying to get more and more women. I don't see the political side of the house working as hard. And if only for the Office of Military Affairs, I have to tell you that the gender balance and the regional balance would be skewed only for we do our work before two different nationalities. I guess that question how can we get how why aren't there women there. I think the way to do it is not through the military now obviously it's through political human rights etc is the network of women on the ground, and making sure they have a voice. Now that's not traditionally acceptable and measure number of countries, but maybe we have to make it acceptable, because there's no change I mean the reason that there are, there are conflicts is because reasons of inequality of some sort. Basically, I mean the most basic of inequalities is the inequality of gender. And if that's not sorted and if there's no representation, even if there is some piece it's only a piece for a while, and it's cyclical and it comes back. So yes they have to be involved. I think that the UN has to try harder and getting working with women's groups on the ground. There is a disconnect between the people at the headquarters. If they've had a cool, whatever it is, it's full of men, they do not want to share that power with somebody else. They don't have a democratic perspective. And so what the people on the ground want what the women what the men, the civilians want isn't necessarily what they want. So, there's a little bit of a, a pull and push there. I think it's remarkable when you look at the Global Peace Index, and you look at the defaulters the countries that are experiencing most interstate and intrastate violence. And you look at the gender gap index where, which is a measure of women who are not involved in politics who are not educated, who are not employed or who are oppressed, the countries with the greatest gender gap index are the same countries that have interstate and intrastate violence. Absolutely. I just will pick up on a question here from, sorry, excuse me, I think your question please. I'm Audrey McCready citizen. My question kind of boils down to I suppose there's a risk of jumping straight into the stereotypical traps of you know if we had more women in the military 5050 my goodness, and would we have less war. You know, is there a stereotype against men as well. I mean, is there still a very predominant culture that men having to be warriors, because you know thank goodness we have men who are artists musicians and architects as well. So there's you know how significant is the gender thing in the whole question. And you're dead right and actually my thesis I said, you know, basically in the end, you know this Jerry gender stereotyping damages men as well, because we're not, you're not just one dimensional people were very complex everyone is complex. There are men who don't like war. There are women who don't like war, and nobody wants to be involved in the war. I want to be involved as a in as a member of the UN and defense forces of Ireland, because I want peace not because I want war. But some people are pushed to that because they've no other alternatives, but that idea, the idea that I spoke about about having including women is important because it gives room for men who have a different voice to to come forward. I've seen this so many times that you see guys and they're not the same. You know they're not the same, but they, they don't feel comfortable enough and expressing their views necessarily in predominantly male environment, however, I have no problem whatsoever. It's expected that I would have an alternative view. Actually, it wasn't expected at the start. We were supposed to be. We were soldiers become like men. I'm a soldier. I'm not a man. I'm a woman who's a soldier. So I think that, you know, a soldier can be a man or woman it doesn't have to be a man. You know, that's a soldier's lot. But again I think introducing more diversity allows others to behave more in line with their conscience in line with the way of thinking, because we don't, they're not all the same. Thanks very much. Yeah, Bernie. I just want to say just congratulations on what has been a very successful career in the defense forces and many doors that you opened for women. Just just in relation to the kind of the unique position you have at the moment in OMA. Is there a particular TCC that is an exemplar in in how they manage gender affairs or their composition, the roles that they have women in and you know lessons learned that could be passed on to these, including Ireland. The Scandinavians do it very well, but at the moment they have other things on their mind. But they're not turning their back on the UN they are working together actually as a matter of interest. They're going to work together and perhaps not have representative for one team from one Scandinavian country. They'll have a rotating kind of environment. But do you know who does it very well are the Canadians. They have a huge number of female female personnel. The, in fact, the deputy force commander in Minnesota in Western Sahara is a woman, and the lady who took over for me in on death is from Ghana. They have and and they really, they do very well. The trouble is that most of the women involved in teaching military college, and only a few of them like this lady is naval so you know they've got operation experience will say. So I think they've done I think that it is just about inclusion. And I think that's the lesson when you have go into. So, if you go into a mission and you see women doing patrols. Or driving the APC, you then see them in the sector headquarters being in charge of operations are working in the intelligence are working in logistics. And then you see, in my case, acting force commander, I would the point you made about, and I've seen if we have to be seen to give that to let people understand that you can be a female and be a general as well. So I met my, my, I visited all the missions. And is why I had to go to every post, because I just wanted to be seen, not not for more in a Brian but for for to give lessons, not lessons, but to show that it can be done. And I wasn't just a token, you know, I was talking about operational matters I wasn't talking about painting my nails or plucking my hair. You know, so that came as a shock and I know that a lot of women since then reached out to me how they found that quite inspirational and they will bring it home. So who we learned from. I think we do do it quite well ourselves. You know, if you look at the, if you look at what we do in terms of the roles that women play, I think we're very, very good. I have a question here from Dr Sally and Corker and she's farmer of UN and and she's in Galway but currently pavipoints Dublin. What in your opinion would contribute most to the dismantling of the discriminatory structures, UN and military that impact women on the ground, and how to change people's perceptions about women and our contribution, probably building on a lot of the points you were making. Is there any, I don't know what is discriminatory, you know, when when if something is discriminatory I like to call it out. Yeah, all my life have just said but you can't do that. Yeah. So but some people don't feel and that's okay for me to say as a general call it out, but I called it out when I was a second lieutenant. Yeah, but that was okay for me because I was brand new in a woman and what did you expect and you didn't you know. But now I think a lot of women say in that they just their voices are being lost so discrimination. Say again, what is it. Just a dismantling discriminatory structures and I suppose that's basically the patriarchal society that is institutionalized in in many countries but also in the military. And I suppose that's what we're talking about in terms of 1325 which is attempting to dismantle that. Yeah, I think that, you know, basically is getting. First of all getting women there get them in positions of authority grow, grow the people from I mean actively grow from being a P five or P three working their way up and giving them people you an experience. And I think if people act with that with that experience and on when I go to a mission people just say you know I give them where I've been I came to the UN headquarters and I said, I've been in seven different missions I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I had seven times more service in UN missions than anybody else had. So, I think there's a lot of just do it in this and call it out. And I, you know, I think the UN is trying very, very hard to ensure that their representation at all the levels. Now sometimes women themselves don't want to take up those appointments the field appointments aren't popular in all cases, especially at family, if they're having families and in particular times. And that's okay too. Yeah. And a lot of men are doing that. One of the, the easier things is to have if there are family friendly missions. Yeah, but they're less and less family friendly. Can I just take up a question there from Jill Dino who is deputy director of in general if I am. She said the example you gave of choosing one TC, see you over another because of it's better level of female representation in senior positions was impressive, but she makes to point in in the climate where it's difficult to get TCCs in the first place. Exactly. It's a balance, right. And so, you know, we make a lot of balances when we bring a TCC some we have concerns about the of their performance. We do pre deployment training and we're not always 100% happy. Yeah. And we get them to redo stuff and all that kind of thing we're not 100% happy but at some stage, you got to say. Now, we're talking about standards. It stands for equipment. We're talking about do they have their, their drills down, you know, and muted action and IDs, all that kind of stuff. But in fact, what we found many of those TCs without the normal structures of training that we would associate with are so brave and do the work. For example, the Chadiens, they're not perfect and everything but my gosh, are those mostly men and some women are extraordinary brave. And I admire that. But the UN can't allow, you see the balance. Yeah, we can't allow them to do that and expose themselves, and then trying to get the balance of we'll say, you know, TCC's that have more, more structured trainings. Keen, you have a question back there Keen from the IAEA. Thank you. I'm Keen Fitzgerald. I'm the security and defence researcher here at the IAEA. We see that some mercenary groups are now offering an alternative to UN assistance from host country for host country governments for security. Most of these groups don't require security sector reform or implementation of one through two five. I was wondering how has this changed the operating environment for UN forces, as well as what does this mean for the potential continuity of some missions that are under threat by increased mercenary activity in those operating environments. Thank you. Increase mercenary, is that what you're saying? Yeah. I missed the first part of the sentence. Just increase mercenary activities where they're offering an alternative to UN forces for stability missions. They're not offering an alternative to stability. They're just not doing that. They're there for, I mean, it will become obvious in time that they're there for their own good. Nobody does this. Nobody does what those groups are doing for their own benefit and they will become very clear when their gold and their diamonds disappear. But again, as I mentioned, the people who are in charge at that moment and that time are gaining something from this relationship. It is only through democratization and capacity building in their governments and that this will change. So, what we have an example of the East African force that came into Congo. We knew at the start that they couldn't achieve what they claimed they were going to achieve. Congo had disinformation about our mission there. They say, we can't do it. We can't do it because they won't let us do it. And they won't let this group do it either. And this group also wants the UN to pay them and equip them. So, long run, the UN survives. And long run, the UN has successful missions, not always brilliant, not all, but we do save lives. And we do, and there's not any, I don't think there's anyone, any of those mercenaries who can say that. And to a larger extent, we do not leave the country in a worse position than we found it, at least we're trying to do that. We're accountable. We're accountable to all the member states, all the member states of which some of those mercenaries, where those mercenaries come from. So the mercenaries are not accountable. They, the host country knows the UN is accountable. Are you confident, this is from Tom Crowley, that gender parity will be achieved by 2020 years? Not nearly any growth. No. And the difficulty is because in most of the TCCs, we don't have those levels in the military anyway. So how could we expect a larger number to be the UN when there's a fewer in the forces that exist? So basically it's back to the member states again. The UN isn't, the UN is the member states. The member states have to try harder to increase those numbers. And maybe the military is not a good job for them. I have a question here from, sorry, does anybody else want to come here please? Thanks very much. Walt Kilroy from Dublin City University. Thanks for the very interesting and inspiring presentation. I'm wondering, I'm very interested in this idea of a, I don't know do we call it trickle down or trickle up in which involvement in the UN is actually changing the nature of the armed forces of the TCCs. How far do you think that's gone? Are you actually seeing real change happening within the TCCs or is that process only just beginning? You see the UN doesn't see itself as a military organization and we assume when we have a TCC that they come equipped and trained. What we find is they aren't to a certain extent. There are changes and how we do that is through some bilateral arrangements. So we have a section in the UN that deals with partnerships between one TCC and another potentially either through training or sharing of equipment or that kind of thing. So that's how we're changing. For example, you can't get an APC in this world for UN missions. It's very difficult because they're all going someplace else. But some people can help. So that's how it's been done. There are changes in the militaries, but what we're particularly interested in doing is growing the leadership. Because the leadership, the NCO, for example, is the leader of the future, the junior leader of the future. So I think that whereas the change is slow, there's some happening. But there's some difficult roads ahead as well. Yeah, Mike, I think it's a major general. Thanks, Maureen. Just congratulations again on your appointment in New York. And a very interesting presentation here this evening. Sorry, Michael Pham is my name. I previously been head of mission and for Chief of Staff of the Smaller UN mission, UNSO, the oldest UN mission. I remember going to UNSO in 1995 and it was fierce excitement, I suppose, of the first female observer, military observers coming into the mission. They were from Scandinavia at the time, but I went back there in 2015, 2013 to 15 as head of mission. And, you know, there was a lot more women in the mission, which is great. Some in senior appointments within us, Chief Observer Group Lebanon and you yourself are deputy, deputy force commander, deputy chief in UNDOF. But overall, and I think I'm probably repeating what's said already isn't like 1325 is around for a very long time. There has been progress since in relation to the employment and deployment and offering of females on missions, both operational and self appointments. But isn't there a long way to go and isn't this isn't just restricted by the fact that TCC is as hard as they might be trying and some probably are not trying very well but there are a number of females in the national forces in the troops in countries and that will always be a challenge that will have coming back in years to head. Absolutely. And actually there was a the role that you held was held by a Norwegian woman at some stage as well. Yeah, and you'll find Norwegian women and Swedish women as on more position but you'll see a lot of Indians, Pakistani women and Bangladesh women going as well because they want to increase their numbers but what I found in some of the missions is they're not actually qualified. And I have looked at it when we select them to make sure that they are actually qualified because it's unfair again in terms of giving a burden to somebody that they cannot, they cannot achieve. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that happened I noticed and also there was a nunmo when I was over there in the middle of COVID. And she, they work in Syria as well. And she was a surgeon, a number, no, she worked with I don't know what the title she was a surgeon for the chest right. I said, she's coming over to my side, because there's a hospital in my side and if we needed somebody to be there. But to me that is a huge waste of talent to have a surgeon there but what it meant for her is when she goes back to her country she could work at the headquarters. I don't want to say too much more because you'll identify the country, but she was she's guaranteed she knows where she's going to go and she's going to be promoted. So she wanted to do that. And the country wants to do that because they wanted to tick a box. Yeah. But I think we're coming towards the end and I suppose I'll just make an observation and general could more you recall we had this conversation many times the issue of gender equality in apartment women. It's not just about political correctness it's not about, you know, a better reflection of the society defend protect and serve. It's not about just access to 50% of the population. It's about capability. And as long as you do not have gender equality and empowerment of women in our forces, you have suboptimal capability and you bear risk, and it should be on risk registers. Thank you Maureen. Fantastic open Frank honest discussion. Thank you. And also once again congratulations on your award was in UIG. It's so richly deserved. I want to say thanks to everybody here and everybody online.