 Hello everyone and welcome to Inside Leather History, a fireside chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe. I am the host and producer of the Jats, which are a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. Today, I'm interviewing girl Ann, who was IMSL 2018. Was it IMSL BB, IMSL Bubba at the time? I wanna make sure we get that right. That's great, great question. Yes, it's IMSL BB is how we refer to it, or IMSL Boot Black. There's a couple of different names how it's referred to, but it's always, we always have our boot blacks. Let's go, let's start right at the very beginning. Tell me a little bit about your growing up, where you're from, your family, that kind of thing. For sure. So I was born into Wumba, which is a fairly small little town up in Queensland, Australia. And I was there for up until my 20s. I moved around a little bit, but the last 20 years or so, a little bit more than 20 years, I've been down in and around Melbourne area in Victoria, which I really love. So I'm one of four. I have an older brother and two younger siblings. And I don't know what else to tell you. My childhood was okay. We didn't have a truckload of money, but that was fine. I kind of got a bit rambunctious when I was maybe 12 or 13. Yeah, started having a little bit more of a wild time and finding out a little bit more about who I am and finding my feet and how I was going to walk in this world. Well, tell me more about that. You said you were discovering yourself and having a little bit of a wild time. What were you discovering? I think finding my independence. One of the fantastic things about my parents was that they didn't believe in grounding. So they didn't ground any of us. And we had other, there was other disciplinary stuff that happened, but that was not one of them. And so, you know, if things got crazy as they do inside everybody's head when they're a teenager, you know, and I just needed to get out, I would go for a walk. I'd go for a walk, I'd visit friends. So, you know, at that point, my independence gained some level of confidence, I guess, just that if I wanna do something, I can go do it. And if I was in a situation that I didn't need to be in or I was in a place that felt uncomfortable, I could move. Did you discover, you know, gay people at that time? Did you discover any kind of a community at that time? Well, well, I don't know how far I can go down that path. When I was younger, I had a birthday party, which wasn't a common occurrence. And, you know, let's just leave it. At the birthday party, I did some exploring where I was very bossy. And my party was attended by all female identified people. And we had a lovely time. I think my bossy femininity was coming out at an early age. Let's just put it that way. What does bossy femininity mean to you? Well, now that I have more language and more understanding around it, I don't know if I had identified with the left side of the slash, although I am a switch. I'm quite confident in the role of being the dominant or the, you know, the handler in a situation, a relationship. And that fits well with me. I've had the exciting honour to be as submissive, to be collared and to walk through different DS roles over the years. And that's all been an amazing learning experience that I, you know, I took so much away from. But now as I'm older, I've very much settled into who I am and how I roll and what feels comfortable. Well, tell me a little bit more about being collared, being a sub and the other things that led you to where you are now. Well, let's run back to, I think the first time that I found myself in a position of dominance was I started going to a kink. Oh, my gosh, I've just lost words. I started going to a kink venue. It was very queer, welcoming. And it was called a boat in Australia. And I, after a while of going there and getting to know people and exploring a little, a few of my own kinks and I came, I had, the owners came to me and said, we need a new dobbish. How do you feel about that? And so before very long of entering into a kind of out, outside of the house kinky world, I found myself sitting at a boat and working the front desk reception as well. And I loved it. I was Miss Angel and everybody had best be nice to me and if I told you to stand and wait in the correct queue, then I would appreciate that you did that. And I guess at that time, somebody else kind of put that jacket on me and it fit and I had a lot of fun and I had a great experience. And it was, I don't know, I can't even remember. It was years later that I kind of questioned how much of that role was me and how much of the opposite side of the slash also fit me well. And was it other people choosing what they saw in me and who they thought I was or was this my decision? So I explored that I was coloured to Sarge also an amazing, one of my Imzel sisters. So I was coloured to her for a number of years and that was very much an experience of learning what it was like to be on the other side of the slash and understanding with greater detail what it was that I could give to somebody else and how I could make somebody else feel and their confidence and the support that I could give somebody else and how much of an impact my words and actions had on somebody else when that DS was in play. So that was amazing. It was a real eye opener. Fascinating. Let's take a step back before we go forward. Okay. Bring me to where you first had some concept of kink and anything to do with that. When I moved to Melbourne, not long after I had moved to Melbourne, so maybe 20, 25 years ago, I met an amazing human that was dressed in a suit at a lesbian bar and their name was Tommy. And I walked in with some other people that I had only met recently as well and this gentleman bought me a champagne and we sat down at the table and we conversed all night and they were very much and are very much a dominant and have a very strong daddy energy about them and they're also very much into kink. So I, after that conversation was just flustered and amazed and they are an AFAB person. So I, at that point, I think the understanding of DS and energy exchange became something that I very much craved. So Tommy had been to a boat before and told me about a boat and we chatted and messaged and got to know each other better. And then one night I popped into a boat on my birthday for the very first time and messaged Tommy and said, Tommy, I'm here at the boat, what are you doing tonight? Come on down. Fascinating, you came into it a little later in life. I did, I did. I think personally, kinky things were, I was attracted to kinky things and energy exchange but I wasn't in a place where that happened. I didn't have the language, I didn't know anybody. I mean, some of my sex was pretty kinky prior to that. If I'm gonna think about maybe vanilla sex or something like that, how it was way back in the beginning. You know, there was, well, even back in the beginning, fisting or feeling as full as I possibly could was definitely a kink way back in the beginning. In your, from your small town in Australia, what brought you to Melbourne? The town that I was living in before I moved to Melbourne was Bundaberg and I loved it up there. I had an incredible time up there. However, it was getting a bit small. I kind of feel like, you know, there wasn't really much that excited me about that place anymore. And so I moved down to Melbourne to hook up with, with the girl and it didn't work out but I fell in love with Melbourne. Melbourne is amazing. Well, tell me a little bit about the Melbourne you discovered. So the Melbourne that I discovered when I first got there was theatre, art, culture, hospitality, a different energy, a more open understanding, accepting energy of people with less. I don't know, there was, I felt that it could be a place. It felt like it could be home. And then later on, you know, thanks to Tommy, there was a lot of reading and there was a lot of events that I attended and people that I spoke to. And I actually brought a lot of people to the club for the first time and, you know, was able to share my love and passion of kink. And that is where I came across leather in that space as well. I see, I see. Were you able to go to places like, I don't know, the Laird? Oh, no. Well, no, I have been there a few times. Laird is a men's only venue. It didn't begin that way but it has been for a long time now. And they have a number, they have a limit to the number of gender inclusive events that they're allowed to hold each year and if they go over that then they're in trouble. So the only leather bar in Melbourne is men's only. So there was a gender inclusive leather club when I was running for my title and that club had been up and running for quite a while. That's no longer happening at the moment. In Melbourne, as you were beginning this exploration, tell me about some of the activities that were new to you that excited you when that opened your eyes? I, in the very beginning, I didn't know that a female could be a dominant. Like, this, you know, this was way back, like this was way back in the beginning and my concept and understanding was limited. I remember one time after reading some novel that got me hot and horny, I, there was a dominant in a space at a party that I liked and I knelt quietly in a corner in the position that had been described in this book that I was reading and waited until I was approached and noticed. And that for me was such a beautiful experience. Another experience that I had at a boat in a similar timeframe was it got back to me that there was a female identified person there that didn't believe that there was any female that could dominate her. And I'm like, oh, oh, pardon me. I think we need to meet. So that, that was also super exciting for me. Just like, I don't know, opening people's minds, opening my mind, understanding that there's more, there's more than just what I've read. There's more than just what I've done. There's always something to learn. I love, I love learning. I love other people's brains as well. I love understanding what makes a person tick or having incredible conversations with people that have a different opinion from me. And it doesn't mean you need to leave that conversation with either person's opinion changed. It's just, it's an opportunity to hear the other side of the story, to balance out any preconceptions, to be able to take a look at something from a broader perspective, and being able to share that with other people is huge as well. Were you able to dominate that person? Yes. Yes, I was. We met and we had a brief conversation and shortly thereafter she was on her knees and she was doing as instructed and she reveled in that moment as much as I reveled in that moment. It was beautiful. And I don't remember her name and I don't know that I've ever bumped into her again. I have to say from my own point of view, I've always felt that the leather kink communities in Australia are relatively small compared to what we see in Europe and here in North America. So I would find fascinating that some of these people wouldn't overlap for you. It is a fairly small community, although I would say that the kink community is larger. And if we're gonna have a look at the bears and the pups and rubber and all of our brothers and sisters across all of the community, then it gets a bit bigger compared to over here. It is nothing. It is tiny. I mean, yeah, it's definitely nothing like what's over here. The opportunity to attend conferences and to meet people, the number of bars that are aware of what leather is and welcome leather people in the door every Friday night for the gathering. There's a lot more awareness over here in the States than there is in Australia. Even though, even today over here, I still bump into the, oh, you guys are into that, hurting each other stuff. Like, hold on a minute. You know they really wanna do it. You know the deal. And I just wanna clarify for the audience viewing this that you're currently in Dallas, Texas and the States, although you are from Australia. I just wanna make that clear. Yes, I've been traveling backwards and forwards now since I won the title. So, and I love it here. I love it at home. This place feels like home as well. I've very much found people that I call family and that I feel comfortable with and that we know each other and we love each other. You, as you blossomed in Melbourne and discovered this amazing community and learned so many wonderful things, tell me how you progressed toward doing a title. Sorry, leather community. So, Sarge came over to Australia, Sarge in 2015, came over to Australia during her title year. She came over a few times actually, but during her title year, I got to meet her and my daddy at the time who is also leather. Him and I spent a bit of time with Sarge and after that, he approached Sarge and said, would you mentor my girl? And she said, yes. So, that it was not my intention. I did not strive for that. I, at that point, didn't even have a very good understanding of contests and how they worked and that they were on an international level. I mean, the contests in Australia, majority of them I can't attend. I think I had been to maybe three contests before I competed for INZL. I had held no title. There was no title to hold for anyone female identified for three years before I ran for INZL. Couldn't test the water. There was nothing. Incredible. I also find it a little sad that you haven't been able to attend a lot of those. Yeah, yeah. I mean, every community evolves at its own pace and that is influenced by the people, the level of education, sometimes money. There's a lot of things that are involved in how a community evolves. And some of the differences that I've noted across the world that some communities are kind of hitched on a few things. And unfortunately, the Australian community almost across the board is hitched on it being a men's, a men's space, it's for men. So, you know, that's different. Giving kudos to the Australian community. In Melbourne at the lead, we allowed our trans brothers in while there's other communities, even here in the States that are like, what's in your pants before you walk in the door? Yeah, yeah. Unacceptable in my books, just as, you know, just as it's also not okay to not have, to not welcome diversity. Diversity is strength. Put all of our voices forward. Let everyone be heard. Yes. That's super important to me. And it doesn't matter what's hanging off your chest or not, or what's between your legs, what you were born with, what it is now. Everybody deserves to be invited in. Not all of the time. Every pocket, every bucket, every group should have, you know, the ability to have their own, you know, it's just a pub night. If you don't identify as a pub, then don't come tonight. You know, have a men's night, have a female identified night, have an inclusive night. But I think it's, yeah. I think Australia has a bit of work to do. I don't know a truckload about the communities on the West Coast, but I do know that Adelaide. Adelaide is making leaps and bounds. And, you know, the people that are pushing that community forward are so focused on inclusivity and so focused on bringing diversity into their community. And they are doing such a fantastic job at it. Wow, I wasn't aware of that. Yeah, yeah, Adelaide, gender inclusivity, Adelaide, they go together. Wonderful to hear. Wonderful. Yeah. So when you were working with, working to prepare for a future in the community, did you actually have any kind of a contest? How did you manage to qualify to go on to a higher level than the IMSL contest series? With the IMSL contest, there is no prerequisite that you've held a title. Oh, I didn't know that. So that's why I was able to. It's open to everyone. Not everybody has, you know, especially in Australia. And I'm sure that there's other places in the world. We don't have a community that's big enough or with enough money or a venue that can have a title. Yeah, yeah. I find fascinating because that's the first I've heard of that. And I wondered how you managed without that. Sarge was an incredible mentor. She was mentoring me heavy work for a year and a half, two years before I ran for the title. Do you know what? It may even be longer than that because I went over to IMSL in 2017 to see what it was like and have a better understanding of what I was preparing for and what this contest was like and start to wrap my head around the ins and outs of the leather world in the US, which is very different from my experience in the States. So Sarge made that happen. My community, you know, across the board with all of its clusters contributed hugely to me being able to go. I had a massive fundraiser before I left. I had no money. I had stopped working a few months prior running for the title because I couldn't work and prepare. What work was Sarge having you do? What preparations were you doing? One of the things was social media. Coming to understand what the world of leather looked like on Facebook, what prominent people in the community, how they communicated on Facebook, what did they post? What did people interact with? What did people ignore? What photos worked well? What was visually pleasing about a picture? How to present myself on a platform that I had very, very little interaction with any of them in an online manner. I was running for an international title and I was Australian. Nobody knew who I was. So how am I going to let people know who I am? And how is that going to be perceived? And we might speak a similar version of English as Australians have chopped it up pretty bad. But there is so many cultural differences. There was so much that I had to learn to be able to communicate on a level. Give me an example. My understanding of cultural appropriation was zero before I came to the steps the first time. Okay. One of my sons is Indigenous Australian. And it's different over there. It's different over there, but learning the smaller things that I was doing that contributed, that were racist. For example. There was one time I remember going to search with, I think I'd screenshot some messages from a thread. Somebody had put up a post about some racism, something that had upset them. And I was reading down through the thread and somebody had made a comment. And there was a lot of backlash about this comment. And I was just confused. Like, why is that a bad thing to say? Like, how was this person being disrespectful or rude or ignorant? Like, and so I can't remember exactly what the post was or what the person said, but little, like stuff like that, I'm like, tell me why it's important. So there was a lot of conversations. And I'm so grateful that I had so many people around me over the last few years to help me learn and understand. And I spent time researching. I spent time on my own learning what these things are. And after my first solid chunk of time over here, which I think was about three months, two and a half, three months, just after I won the title, going back to Australia and listening to, one of the favorite radio stations while I was driving the car around and hearing things that I was like, oh, oh, you can't say that. And then I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. People over here don't know that. People over here don't, you know, in Australia don't understand the full story and the bigger picture of why this is racism. And so, you know, even friends and family having conversations with friends and family about white male privilege. And they're like, and I'm like, no, no, you need to listen or can you please listen? And you're laughing me off right now is a part of this. You know, it's just not, the education is around certain topics are just not as advanced as they are over here. That's fascinating. I can't say that I've experienced that when I've visited Australia, but to hear you say that, it's clearly very profound for you. It was. I mean, there was a million different learning codes. And one that, you know, one of the ones that's super important to me is learning how to walk this earth in a better way, how to interact with people in a more respectful way. Like, I don't intentionally want to rock around having people's feelings, you know, like, that's not, that's not how I want to walk in this life. That's fascinating. What do you feel, though, was the most difficult thing, Sarge, had you do in preparation? I don't know if it was the most difficult, but it was definitely something that I procrastinated about and I was challenged by. And that was when she said, you need to start working on your speech. What topic did you choose? You know, like, there was five things. So there was five things that I focused on on kind of, hey, guys, like, check where your priorities are at. What about this stuff? What about we focus on this for a minute? Because if we all did that just a little bit, wow. How was the speech received? The speech was presented and intentionally so to. Make people go, what the fuck? And then come back in and have a listen. So and it did. And there was people that came up afterwards and said, holy shit, I can't believe you said that up there. And I was like, it was said to me and it shocked me. And and it took me a while to ponder on it. But I thought it was worthwhile sharing with you, too. And there was other people that came up and they were like, you know, your speech was amazing. Like, I want I needed to hear that. I'm at a place where that really resonated with me. In all of the preparation that Sarge put you through. You procrastinated most about the speech. But I did. What else. In that whole arena was challenging to you. Being able to show my passions online, virtually, was was an understanding, learning how to take a photo of myself out. Do I look pretty this way, pretty this way? You know, all of that's important. And preparing the outfits. I had a spreadsheet for my outfits before I ran for IMSL. And I'm a leather worker. A lot of the stuff that I wore, I had made myself. So, yeah. So there was a lot, you know, there was a lot of leather work to be done. But, you know, I don't know if it was was that 20, 20 something outfits. But that contest weekend for those four days, you know, and backup bits if something didn't work or, you know, there was there was a truckload of prep raising the money. I didn't I don't have money. I had to find that money. I'd never put on a fundraiser before. I had to learn how to walk up to somebody and sell raffle tickets to show that I could raise money. I then had to put on a fundraiser for myself and to go into people's place of work and shops that they owned, businesses that they ran and say, hi, can you please give me something to raise money for myself? Like, there was a lot of work. There was a lot of work put into this. How did the local community see you and all of this? It was incredible. I mean, there had been a couple of people that had run for inzo and there had been a bunch of the dudes that had run for IML. And, you know, I guess that there was a level of. You know, this is not really something in Australians and Americans kind of witness, you know, North America, that's who wins this contest, especially for, you know, IMSL and IMSVB. So I guess there there was, you know, and there have been other people that had gone and tried. That haven't won. So I guess there was that level of, you know, I might not make it or, you know, that they thought that I might not make it. But I was also determined. So the thing with this contest was I didn't step into it thinking I could win. I stepped into it purely to see what my very best looked like. You mentioned you made your own leathers for IMSL BB. Tell me a bit about that. What kinds of things did you make? My favorite piece was actually the skirt, the wraparound skirt that I was wearing when I won. And so I had. I had a bunch of leather scraps, you know, they were the edges and the corners and the lake bits and they would dry or they had holes in them or they got thick or, you know, the color wasn't consistent, stuff like that. So I had all of these leather scraps and I wanted to make myself a patchwork skirt. And it's really important to me ethically to use every single part of that animal skin. Wow. Now, tell me your first thoughts when you got to IMSL BB. I'm sorry, IMSL BB. Holy shit, have I got everything sorted? Sarge isn't arriving for another three hours. If I haven't got something done, that's on her list. That was my very first thought. All of the letters came out and every single one of them was conditioned. That's the first thing I did when I hit the hotel. And yeah, yeah, just got everything ready. What was your fantasy? And my fantasy. So one of the things that I did to one of the things that I did that I was super passionate about that was also a fundraiser and that I wanted the world to know about me was that I am into squirting. I squirt myself. I love to make other people squirt. I'm all about the squirting. So I created the squirter hanky. So my fantasy. My fantasy was Alice in Wonderland. And basically we were having a tea party. We ran out of tea in the teapot. And so we all, you know, had sex and jacked off. And we would pull the squirter hankies out and throw them around the stage to represent squirt just going everywhere as it does so deliciously. Yeah, so that was my fantasy. It was just, you know, it was the chaos of squirter hankies and and fantastic outfits. I made myself the cutest little Alice in Wonderland leather dress, which I absolutely adore. And yeah, it was it was really good. I don't suppose you've got one of the hankies handy there to show us. I do. I sure do. So how interesting is the squirter hanky, the squirter flagging hanky. So the design, I don't know if you were able to pick it up. Yes, the design is a head, torso, spread legs and squirting. That is amazing. And there was also a little pin made. For those of us that are squirters and love squirting. Wow, I love it. It was a fantastic fundraiser and it was also a fantastic way to kind of bring that up, bring up the conversation for a lot of people. I can't tell you how many people came up to me and said, and I've always squirted during sex. And I'm so embarrassed about it that it became a bit of a phobia for me. Or I squirted once three years ago and I haven't been able to do it again. How do I do it again? I really liked it. Or people that came up to me and they were like, my partner loves to squirt and I've only made them do it once. How do I get them to do it again? But just bringing up that conversation and removing some of the stigmatism or whatever people think about it. I'm like, oh, no, it's a part of sex quite often and it's delicious and yummy. And let's talk about this. And it's one of my favorite things and has been for a really long time. Now, going back to the contest. What did you feel? How did you feel when you were announced the winner? Well, first of all, I thought that they got the details wrong because I started off with from Melbourne and like, oh, no, no, no, they just got my city mixed up with somebody else. And then and it wasn't until they got to the very end of the, you know, girl, Andrew on you, 20, 18 years or whatever it was that I was like, oh, no, that's me. Because the thing is I didn't think I could win. I didn't go in there with any assumption that Little Old Angela from Australia could travel halfway around the world and win an international contest in America. Like I said, I'd never held a title. I'd been to maybe three or four contests other than Insula previous year. I'd never held one. If I was about to win this thing, then I really needed to convince those judges and my contestant class were amazing human. How many were there? My year, there was five running for Insula and three running for. Eight, ten. It wasn't a huge year, but for Imzul BB contest, it was it was a decent amount. There's been less before. There's been more before. OK. What was the first thing you did after winning? I think I was just ridiculously overwhelmed. I had had maybe two or three hours sleep for the last four nights in a row. I had been exhausted and pushed myself to my limit of being on and being present and remembering everything and being at places at the right time. And, you know, also, my serve was with me the entire time. So there's also that relationship. I rep my behaviour and I represent my. If I do something silly, I'm embarrassing my serve. Like, don't do that along with the contest. So it was just huge. You know, there was some people that had said to me over the weekend, you're doing a great job. And I'm like, yeah, you guys love me, but so it wasn't it really, honestly, wasn't until they read out my name that I was like, oh, oh, I did have what it takes. Oh, OK. All right, here goes. You such an approach me as much as possible to understand what the year ahead might look like and might feel like. And, you know, there'd be times when you're tired. You don't want to get dressed up and go to the event and you don't want all of the attention to be on you. You want to go over into a corner and play with somebody. And, you know what? You've got 20 people around you asking questions. Yes. It's it. That year is not about you. It's about everyone else. It's you give yourself. You put yourself to the back of the queue. And you give everything that you have to everybody else. And then you get to a point where you're like, oh, OK, no, wait a minute. I mean, I need to give myself a little something. But but then but but that's what a title is. The title you wear the sash. You do the work. Yes. This is not. This is this is not all pomp and fancy. And, you know, it you're there for the community. You're there to support other people. You're there to listen. You're there to help educate. You're there to. And. Represent your home community. Represent a different type of leather to somebody that's never seen anything like you before to give people a voice. Yes. That don't that are not heard. Yeah. And to listen like it's not all about you. It's all about everybody else. During your title year. You I don't even know what you call it, but you made a wonderful game out of. Acting as Australian interpreter for the Australian contestants at IML because they had started doing the. Stage questions in the native language of the contestant. Yeah, the French, whatever. Yeah. The question was asked in American English and out you came with this over exaggerated, hysterical version of Australian English for these people. I can't imagine what those contestants must have thought. I don't know if they even expected it, but I got to see you do that. I stood backstage laughing so hard. I was afraid they'd throw me out. So tell me about that experience that had to be quite something. It was amazing. So Jeff came up to me at the beginning of the the weekend. Jeff talk, I guess. Sorry, apologies. Actually, no, it wasn't appropriate. It was like on the second day or something. Anyway, he said, I've got an idea. He said. So the people that have, you know, that have different languages, the first language are having the question asked in the native language as well. Would you like to get up there and do that for your Aussie brothers that are having a crack and I would jump at the chance. I jumped at the chance. It was so much fun. I translated the questions into the most bogun Aussie, like Mike, like it's a twang. Like I turned it all the way up. And yeah, I don't even know if the audience understood half of what I was saying. But they had a great laugh. Jeff Tucker was stoked at the end of it. He said that went down a trait. You're brilliant. And the guys told me afterwards that the contestants in the green room also had had a delicious laugh at it, and that it had been absolutely hysterical. People were coming up for the rest of the weekend going, oh, my gosh, I saw you. I saw you on stage doing your thing. And that was hilarious. So it was a memorable moment for a lot of people. It was also super cool to get up there and be the current Imzo up on that IML stage. You know, it's been a while since we've had the opportunity to be one of the judges. And it's fantastic that the Imzo baby still gets to participate in that contest. And we have our IMLs and international Mr. Butte Blacks come and come and judge for the women's contest. But to be able to just to be able to be seen, you know, show a few of the dudes that the community is bigger than just them. You've spoken a lot now about mentoring. What are your thoughts and what is your advice? For new people coming into the community and mentoring and seeking mentoring? Yeah, and my advice is to reach out. Sometimes it's kind of scary to reach out, like asking people for donations for a fundraiser to raise money for yourself. You know, those sort of things can be scary socially. So reach out, understand that there is not one true way. Nobody is going to be able to tell you everything about all of the things. Ask questions, be respectful, and look for a mentor. There may not be one in your home community. There may not be one in your state, but search broader. There are there is a lot of people that are publicly accessible continuously on many different platforms that will answer your questions or guide you in the direction of somebody that could answer your questions. Be open-minded to learning things from people or places that you don't expect. If you're sincerely craving knowledge, you will find it. Well, girl, and I would like to thank you for an amazing interview for Inside Letter History, a fireside chat. You have been such a pleasure to talk to you in its name. I felt really comfortable speaking to you.