 where it repeats itself, as opposed to so many other countries where it doesn't happen. And it's about gun control, I suppose, but maybe more. And all those people in the other countries, they have some sort of weapon, but one of the obvious problems is that it's very—weapons such as Uesugi used make it easy to kill people. That's the Xerox case. Yeah, the Xerox case. If you have a knife, then if you're getting into somebody chasing you around with a knife and you happen to be faster, you've taken care of most of the problem for yourself. On the other hand, if that person has an illegal weapon, which are easy to come by, and starts shooting people in the back, I mean, they're dead as a doornail quickly. So you can kill seven people, whereas if you had a confrontation with one knife and seven people, you're going to be the one who's going to ultimately end up suffering the attack. I do want to discuss Uesugi and the Xerox case in great detail with you, because I think it's one of Hawaii's most famous cases, actually. But just for this short discussion here, I wonder what your reaction would be as a prosecutor to find that the guy who committed this offense, the guy who went to so much trouble to do it, the guy who wrecks havoc on so many lives and families, he commits suicide and gets away. He robbed us of the opportunity to have a public response. There's enough of these people who survive deliberately and have made plans to escape. My own belief is that somebody who ought to be subject to the death penalty, and if they take it and do it for themselves, they're saving us a whole lot of money. And so it's a practical thing, and I think that that's acceptable. I think the fact that we had Charles Manson alive for how many decades after what he had done is unacceptable, and if there's ever a poster child for why you need to get rid of people who are serial killers, it's Ted Bundy. Sure. A real screw loose. Well, he did this because he thought he was smarter than everybody else and succeeded in being very much smarter than most people for far too long. Sick. Yeah. Except he's not sick. This was what he did for a living. Whatever genes were put together, sometimes you get a real loser one, and then this particular guy was very effective and very cunning and very vicious in terms of the killings that he committed. So this is going to continue in our world, and there's an intersection between this kind of serial killing and mass killing and terrorism, which plays on the same field somehow. It's obvious it does. What do we do? What do we do in terms of apprehension, not so easy, prosecution? We got a lot of laws that protect the defendant, you know, conviction, we got juries that get confused, and punishment, lots of different considerations on punishment. Before you get to the end of it, it could be a long time, and is the public's need for counteraction, if you want to call it that, met, is going to be, is rehabilitation important, or is, what's the other word, when you punish, punishment, deterrence, is that important? It seems like these issues are unresolved in our time, and nobody has a clear handle on which way it can go, should go, or which is the optimal way to deal with it on a societal basis. Well, I can tell you that one of the most significant things you need to have in terms of prosecuting people of that caliber is you need to have evidence, and you need to be able to search for the evidence, and you need to be able to break down barriers that have kept you from being able to collect evidence against these types of people. And so when you have something that's as critical as a, you know, somebody who's killed eight people, and there's very little evidence that you can legally get to under the current rules to go get inside the car, to get inside the trunk, all of those things are the types of things that you have to reanalyze in a system that's more sensible than the one we have right now. And pendulum swing. Yeah, well right now, everything is for the defendant. I mean, from start to finish, sacred constitutional rights is what's pounded into your head constantly, and in fact what it is, it's basically an opportunity to get less relevant and truthful evidence before the jury or the trier of fact, and that's not acceptable to me. The criminal justice system has been screwed up that way for years.