 and welcome to Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Rebecca Ratliff, your host for this evening. I am a mediator and an international mediator and arbitrator and law professor at Howard University School of Law. I have with me our usual host, Chuck Crumpton, the pleasure of hosting Chuck tonight. Chuck Crumpton is a mediator and arbitrator based in Hawaii. We also have Professor David Larson, who is an ADR professional and a professor at Mitchell Hamlin Law School of Law and the wonderful Louise Ng partner at Dentons. Thank you all for joining me tonight. Good to see everybody. So tonight we want we're going to have a solutions based session about being one, unity. We are one is the title for tonight and what we'd like to do is first, I'd like to have each of you give give me your definition or you know your thoughts around what unity looks like for us as a country and as a world. However, you'd like to to frame your your thoughts around that. Of course, we are the good trouble crew. So we're part of the good trouble crew. Some of us are missing tonight, but Chuck, what is what does unity look like in your opinion? We have a word for it. And that's Ohana. It means family extended family because we're mostly Asian Pacific and the family here is everybody who's connected, some by blood, some by choice as it should be. And the reason that's important to remember and put first now is we've just gone through the Maui fires, the worst disaster in our history by far. At least 100 dead thousands who've lost their homes, their family businesses, an entire community, which had previously been the capital of the Hawaiian kingdom, destroyed, literally level. And the message from our governor and from our friend Andy Weiner, who's putting together the victim compensation program here is we are one Ohana. We came into this one Ohana, we must get through it one Ohana, and we must come out of it one Ohana. Collaboratively and in unity. If ever there was a time it shouldn't take disaster to remind us. But if that's what it takes, please take the lesson and learn from it. We are one Ohana sly and the family stone had it right. We are family. I love that I didn't actually know when I chose the title. I had no idea. So thank you for that. That's perfect. That's perfect for tonight in our conversation. Louise, what does unity look like? Well, you know, I was actually thinking along the same lines as Chuck. Thanks to a unity march just having happened in Lahaina or to Lahaina with a wide variety of different groups showing their desire to work together to rebuild Lahaina in the right way and the point away. And there were some lovely quotes from participants in the march that I read in the Sunday paper that I that resonated with me. And you know, we have a long way to go and there's going to be differences and there are there have been differences in opinions. But I liked the sentiment that was expressed of, you know, as we rebuild and think how we're going to use this land again and make it good for the community, we need to honor the land and its history, but also honor all of the different, the diverse communities that have settled there and made it their home. And how are we going to make it right for all of them? And, you know, this is a march that there were already some divisions for, like certain groups did not participate because the governor and government officials had been asked to participate in the march and they did. So it's not like everybody had the same idea of what a unity march should be, but there seem to be an overarching feeling that we do need to bring the community and many different groups together. And if we kind of think of what the long game is, which is to make right by the land and all the communities that were there, I hope we can go forward in an overall progressive way that's good for everybody. And then something that I heard recently, well, actually on today's NPR, just about the whole, you know, the ongoing debate about immigration and how it's been, it seems to be villainized by certain members of the party, but, you know, the thing that we have to remember too is that immigration has been good for this country. We've had so many different groups come in and revitalize and contribute, and it just takes a generation or two for people to start being engaged in government from so many different cultures that I think we need to remember to emphasize that point. That's a really good point. Immigrants built the country. Yeah, slave labor and immigrants built the country. Yeah, David, what does unity look like in your eyes? Well, one thing I'm hoping before we end this program, somebody cues up the music and we get a good slide going. So maybe as we go off, we'll be played out to slide and family's note. Michael can do it. It's such a challenging proposition right now. I feel like we've talked now for quite a while about polarization, and if anything, I just think it's as bad as ever. Yes. When I think about unity, I'm thinking in terms of maybe baby steps that I'm hoping that we do a better job as a community, as a country of listening, that we really need to start listening to each other to be better able to understand where we're coming from because we're so far apart. I'm an optimist to believe that if we listen to each other, we're going to find some common ground. I mean, if we're all dealing with a natural disaster, we all have the same kind of immediate concerns regardless of our political belief we've got to address the tragedy and the destruction. And that's true in a lot of different circumstances. So I hope we, number one, in terms of unity, I hope we make a better effort of listening to each other. Number two, and I hope kind of combined with that, that we do a better job of reaching out to not just listen to the same sources that we do regularly, but actually to make an effort to reach out and hear some other voices that I think that's going to be important. So not a real dramatic call, but I think it's that I think that's possible. I think it's really important that we do that, that we listen to each other and have respect to each other's opinion, understanding that there are probably some guidelines and parameters to that. But we aren't listening, and I think until we do, we're not going to get past this significant divide. Obviously, I appreciate that. Three of us on this show are dispute resolution professionals, so we understand the importance of listening, active listening, probing, reality testing, testing the durability of a person's position or their arguments. And when you brought up David, tragedy and destruction, I thought, yeah, natural disasters and unnatural disasters that have happened, the human atrocities and other things that we are dealing with as a world, really, and as a country. So there's, you know, fatigue, there's a fatigue that's going on with all the different initiatives and actions and conversations and motives. And so one of the notes that I made coming into the show was, you know, solutions, you know, what are some solutions to what divides us, and obviously you've all given some thoughts around some solutions. But diversity, equity and inclusion efforts are underway, and listening and conversing is the way we continue to advance representation, the inclusion, equitable inclusion, representation, and as dispute resolution professionals, of course, we're interested in equitable favorable outcomes for all people. So, you know, since dispute resolution touches every single industry, every single person, how is dispute resolution going to be at the forefront, dispute resolution professionals? How will we be at the forefront of ensuring that these conversations are had and that the fatigue that we're feeling as a society is addressed in a way that, you know, we keep the conversation going. What are some solutions for inspiring people to jump in to good trouble? And Chuck, I can see, I see you smiling. I know you have some thoughts. Well, one of the thoughts, because I love what each of you and Rebecca, you and your questions, and David and Louise as well, that I'm Zen Buddhist. And so Yin Yang and the deep involvement and inherent roots of each in the other is an essential understanding that within unity, there must be diversity in order for unity to have meaning and value. Within the common ground, there must be difference in perspectives and orientations in order for that common ground to have meaning and value and sustainability. And if you look at the word community, the emphasized part of that word is unity. And calm is just from the Latin together, unified together. So the together again has no meaning and value unless it is a diverse togetherness. We do have to be not just family, we have to be diverse family. Well, and family is, yeah, the beauty here is that we're all, we're all family, you know, through our work on various platforms, we've become really good friends. And when we exchange our emails, you know, sometimes we start off by addressing each other as family. And we're, there is more about us that is similar than is different. And if we could embrace that as people really, race is a social construct, there really is only the human race. There are cultures, but you know, we really all are made up of the same, you know, things and desires and needs as people. And, you know, more conversations about that, more open conversations about that, even when it's uncomfortable, or, you know, I believe what will, you know, what is what will help us to continue to advance. And Louise and David, what are your thoughts? Louise, go ahead. Well, no, I didn't have an, I was actually wanting to listen to, to you folks as the alternative professionals on tools. I guess maybe my, beyond what you've said, I think that, you know, the beauty of a smaller community where people have grown up together is that you do have that history that exists before you formulate your political views. And that doesn't mean everybody's going to grow up and have the same views, but you kind of understand perhaps where people are coming from. Or you're going to be, it encourages people to have a more civil conversation. So I, yeah, commonality. Yeah, I love that because commonality also starts with that calm, you know, root. And again, together, David, your thoughts. Well, as IDR professionals, we deal with conflict all the time. And we'd like to think that we have some skills in bridging communication gaps and diffusing situations. So, you know, I look around and I, they see different places in our society where I'm seeing conflict. One place, I'm an educator, one place that always comes to mind for me are school board meetings that in the recent past have gotten pretty contentious and even explosive and a little scary. And in terms of solutions, I think one thing that we could do is the speed resolution professionals is offer our services in context where we aren't usually working. I mean, we're usually waiting to get hired or retained for a particular kind of specific dispute often involving maybe just one or two parties. And maybe we need to think a little more expansively about what we may be able to do with the skills that we've earned over time. And I think that that's one place in particular where we could have some value because I'm watching school board meetings just explode. And I think it's a little scary to get involved with that. But just to offer our services, they may not be accepted. But they may be because people running those meetings are, I think are getting pretty intimidated and unsettled. So in terms of solutions, I think as the speed resolution professionals, if we look around at conflicts in our community that may not be the ones with which we've traditionally been involved, that we might be able to offer our services. I really like that idea. And while you were talking about that, I thought about how politics comes into these spaces, like school boards or even church boards or associations and government, of course, you know, you're going to have politics and bureaucracy. But it just seems like once politics answers, I'll go back to your school board example, once politics enters the picture, then you have all of these different agendas that usually have nothing to do with what people are really there to address. If we're talking about school boards, then, you know, we're talking about best practices and environments, learning environments for students. And things just get, go off down rabbit holes now is what we're seeing. As you said, on social media, we can just, we can see on the news, just so, just the focus has changed. The main thing is no longer the main thing. Chuck. And I think it's really important to take that and maybe turn it on its head a little bit. What if instead of looking at unity as a limiting divisive factor, who am I? What if we change just the pronoun to plural? Who are we? What if we looked at what are our differences that may contribute to our unifying? How might our differences complement each other in ways that can help us see things better, understand things better and deal with things better, see and make better choices? It's clear. Statistically, data has shown without question that diverse groups make better decisions. They just do. They're more sustainable and they're more reliable and they serve more interests and benefit more people, a wider sector. We can only do that together. And instead, we've been, we're really often two choices. And I'm not talking about the political. I'm talking about just every day in our life. One of those choices is we can be collaborative to appreciate, respect, understand and honor our differences as things that make us greater. The classic old saying, we is greater than me, plus thee, right? We can see that. We can be that. You know, that got me thinking, that got me thinking about one thing we don't teach in schools, I never learned. And you learn only if you're, say, in debate or you go to law school, you go to ADR. It's just how to communicate effectively. And it makes me think about, you know, I'm on the board of a human service aid nonprofit here. We went to one of their in-service trainings about how they do anger management. There's a whole workbook. And it seems, you know, one of the basic premises that I took away is that you don't, you know, not effective to say the first thing on your mind, which is, I can imagine what happens in a school board. The first thing that is on your angry mind gets put out there. But they train people to have a more productive communication. It seems to me that's, you know, like English math and reading, that should be something that we teach in schools and teach continually. Because we're all having to learn that as we go along in life, okay, that style didn't work. Let me try something else. And some people never learn. You make a, yeah, excellent points. When Chuck was talking, I thought about the zero sum mentality in order for you to win, I have to lose, or the other way around and how divisive that is. But then you make a great point about just teaching relationship repair or the art of, I actually do teach the art of negotiating. And with that, I include a component around personality styles because your personality style influences how you communicate, how you negotiate based on motivations and needs that you have, natural, naturally, innate needs that you have. And that's, you know, not something that is, that is widely taught. You know, children have conflicts all the way from, you know, cradle to the corp, to the C-suite. There are conflicts and relationships need repair and conversations need to be had. We don't talk a lot about emotional intelligence in these situations. You know, that's something that has dispute resolution professionals. We could probably focus on more. And I do love David's idea about being in unconventional spaces, offering our services in unconventional spaces where conversations are had and things are hashed out. Because what we know is when a conflict is before us, usually the root cause we have to drill down to. That's not, you know, by the time we see it, it has escalated to, you know, a conflict that is usually not even, you know, there's no focus on what the real problem is. So all of these thoughts are valuable and things that we should think about. Chuck, it looks like you wanted to jump in. And no, I'm just, I'm following both where your train of thought is coming from and where it's going. And one of the things that you notice, it's not just convening those conversations, the difficult conversations to make good trouble. But the tone and spirit of those have to be exactly what you're exemplifying. They have to be opening. They have to be welcoming. They have to be coming out of curiosity, not out of judgment, not out of condemnation. We're here to see, to understand, to respect, and to honor the value in people. We're here to connect the best ways we can with the best people we can and see where that can go. Literally to miss that opportunity, which, whether it's the four of us or any of the others gathering on these syncs sessions, we don't miss those opportunities. We take them and we run with them. We honor them. We build on them. And we do that in ways that connect us much more deeply, much more broadly, much more closely with and to each other and to anyone who chooses to connect with us. It's not only a connection, it's an offer. I want to pick up on something that both Louise and Chuck said. I'm kind of thinking about solutions. Our daughter attended a Quaker school. And I'm not a Quaker, but I like their philosophy and I like the fact that they start teaching dispute resolution skills and peer mediation in kindergarten. And they do through the entire K through 12. She was K through 8 because they didn't have a high school. But for all of those years, there was peer mediation, there was dispute resolution practices, their skills that she gained, she's now a young adult in the workforce that that she's using all the time. So I think it's just invaluable to be able to start teaching our kids those skills when they're even in elementary school. So I was glad we found a school that did this. There are programs around the country. I'd like to see more of them. I think that could help us help bring us together in terms of solutions in terms of unity. And I'm going back to something that Chuck's that Chuck made referenced the fact that we have some statistical empirical evidence that can demonstrate that diverse populations reach good solutions and explains why that's true. So again, thinking in terms of solutions going forward, one thing that we drift away from is I think fact based reasoning that we were losing our facts were forgetting our facts. And as I'm thinking about 2024 and the possibility of deep fakes, and we saw that recent video with President Biden that looked and sounded just like President Biden, but it wasn't him, that we really need to be very careful number one about making sure what we're listening to our facts, but number two, then actually listening to those facts. And I think that we're ignoring them in too great of an extent. So in terms of solutions, I'd like to really try and be more fact based as a community. Important point. One of the points that we've made on a previous show was misinformation and disinformation. And I think I said when I heard disinformation, I had to look it up because I wasn't sure that I had ever heard that word before. But of course, misinformation is the wrong information. Disinformation is the wrong information on purpose. And, you know, when we're talking about perspectives, you know, diverse perspectives and people's tendencies to reject an opinion that is not like theirs versus listening for understanding and trying to find something in common and build on that. I agree with you, David. You know, we have to do more of that. We've we've just become a society. So I was having a conversation with someone recently and they said, well, you know, that's that's well, that's my opinion. And you have to respect my opinion. And my response was we have a close relationship. So I could say it. I said, no, I have to respect your right to have an opinion. And, you know, and let's talk. I don't have to respect your opinion. I have to respect your right to have an opinion. And on that basis, we can continue having, you know, having this conversation and both try to learn something or gain something. But one of the things I think we try to do too, sometimes in conversations is, you know, less listening and more trying to convince people to think like we do, when there really is a lot of value around diverse perspectives, different perspectives from different experiences and backgrounds and cultures. And David, it looks like you were going to say something. I was just thinking that, you know, in a single word, grace is a word that keeps coming to my mind, you know, that that if we can have more grace in terms of tolerance and acceptance, I would be very happy. I love that. Yeah, definitely, we all have to we all need grace. Oh, it would be great to extend it to to to others and Louise, your thoughts as we start to the wrap up in this last couple minutes would love to hear more thoughts. As you said at the beginning, when we're talking about how you chose this topic, I think it's a good topic to start off in as an aspirational goal for 2024. We have so many great divisions in the world that just seem insurmountable. But anything we can do to sort of start baby steps, as you said, David, work on our communication, work on how we can be effective in that way, while being respectful. It's a big task, harder to do, but it's certainly something to keep in mind for 2024. Agreed, Chuck. You know, and I'm listening and hearing, and I'm loving one of the things I'm hearing is that there's an understanding that life exists, not in polar poles, but on a spectrum. We're trying to move the needle, right, from adversarial partisan to collaborative. But we're also trying to move the needle toward truth, because truth is unifying an alliance to truth is a unifying common ground. And we need to understand that the combination of that collaborative approach to each other in life and the alliance to truth is the recognition that the more diverse the truth, the more unifying it is. And the only way to achieve it is diversely with each other and for each other and honoring each other. I love that. And in a word, Chuck, what's your word for tonight around this topic of we are one in unity? What's your word? One, oneness. I would say oneness. So oneness comprises all of it. I love that. Oneness. Louise, what's your word? Can I have two? You can. You can have a phrase if you like. Okay. One word would be diversity. Two words would be embrace diversity. Love that. Definitely. Yes. And David? I have to have to explain my word, but awareness and one thing I think is important is that right now the stock market is doing great. Some of us are feeling really happy, but we need to remember that not everybody has a retirement program. Not everybody is in equity, that some people are living paycheck to paycheck and inflation still hasn't been completely put under control. So when we think about unification and a community to keep an awareness that we're not all in the same position and things are not distributed equitably and we need to be aware of that. And that is the reality of the human condition. Thank you for that. My word is together and together we had another great show tonight. Thank you very much. Goodbye, everybody. Thank you for joining us. One o'clock.