 Welcome to the After Hours podcast, presented by my Investing Club. I'm your host, Harry, and I'm joined by my co-host, James. And in this episode, we have a very special guest, Joe, the head moderator at MIC. If you're someone who's interested in the world of finance, investing, and trading, then this podcast is for you. We cover a range of topics, including large caps, real estate, and even the future of artificial intelligence. But it's not all about finance and investing. We also share some life stories and talk about our experiences in the industry. This podcast is unique because we don't just focus on the technicalities of trading and investing. We go beyond that and talk about the human side of it, where we share our struggles and successes. And we discuss how we've overcame those challenges in our personal and professional lives. So whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting out, this podcast is guaranteed to provide you with some valuable insights and information that you won't find anywhere else. So sit back, relax, and join us as we dive into the world of finance and beyond in the After Hours podcast. What's going on, guys? We're back with another episode of the After Hours podcast. Today, we have Joe Kelly, who's a returning guest. He is the head mod over at MIC. And he's also one of the main large cap traders that we have. So wanted to get him on, kind of talk about the overall market, talk about a few different topics that we will dive into. So Joe, thank you for coming on, my friend. Thank you. It's always a pleasure, gentlemen. Of course. So I guess we'll dive in. So right now, where we sit, the market, I think, spy, I don't know, down a little bit today, but market's just been chopping around. We just got news that the Fed raised a half a point. And it doesn't really look like they're stopping on their mission of like stopping inflation. So Joe, like, how are you feeling about the overall large cap market right now? And kind of what are you thinking going forward? Well, I think based on what what old Jerome Rome said he was going to do, he's going to do everything in his power to to fight, as he said, to fight inflation. And I think that a half a percent was generous. Like, I expected him to just like come out of the woodwork and hit us with like 1% because if you look at what's happening, bro, nothing's slowing down. Like purchasing hasn't slowed down. Really, truly, we're finally kind of seeing this hail on the real estate market to where there's people that are not really they're not jumping into these really expensive homes. Okay. But, you know, we're talking over 500,000, you know, over half a million dollars. They're not they're not they're not diving into those houses immediately. Just, you know, going buck wild like they did in 2020 and 2021 and even in the first half of 2022. Now we're seeing and I'm logging into my charts right now just so I can I can I've been out on the road all day long, bro. Looking at, I mean, that's that's how we can talk about these properties because, bro, I'm literally looking at stuff. And what we're seeing is we're seeing houses that are just sitting there sitting when they're over that kind of like out here. I'm looking out here in Colorado and out here in Colorado and they're sitting if they're over 600 grand, unless it's just absolutely perfect. Okay. But why I think we bound when in the markets because if you look at look at a chart on spy, like everybody that's with us right now on March 8 2023. Look at that intraday chart. We bought them out at $396.59 in the spy in the SPY and at the end of the close, we did nothing but rally straight into it. And in my opinion, I think that was solely based on the fact that people thought we were going to get a higher rate hike after what Jerome after Jerome's opinion yesterday. I think I think people went, oh, a half percent. Okay. That's really not that. Okay. We were prepped for that. That's all right. So I think what's going to happen in the markets going forward is still going to be this continuation of this sideways chop this full time. I do not think we're going to have any kind of positive reaction out for anybody's like long term portfolios. I think it's going to be flat and I don't I don't see us going anywhere like I don't see us above 420. But in the very, very immediate future based on that reaction like on the webinar that we just did yesterday. My opinion was we were continuing lower. And based that the rate hike was not a full percent or 1.25 or really aggressive as like Jerome made it seem like he was going to do. Then I think the market kind of went, oh, okay, fine. We'll just chop around here. Yeah. So what why is it that you think people are choosing like I feel like when I talk to people and like my day to day life. I feel like people are just ignoring the fact that like inflation is still hot. Powell has said multiple times it's not coming down the rate we want. It's not even really coming down. It's barely budging. And he has said from the beginning, he wants people to not get excited in the market. He wants people to not get excited in their spending, but people are just ignoring everything. And that's what I think scares me long term. But like, why is it that you think people are just choosing to ignore this? It might be better than a point, but that could just mean longer prolonged hikes rather than maybe a few big ones. I mean, I don't know, but. I agree. I agree that that's a concern. I agree that that the fact that it's just a half percent now means that there's more coming. He's just not going to do all at once. But I do believe and this is just speculation at this point that people, myself included in 2020 and 2021. 2021, 2020 really set up one of the most phenomenal years that I've ever had income wise for, which was in 21 and 22. Yeah. And I'm certain because dude, I'm not, I'm not smarter than the average bear. I'm an idiot. And if an idiot like me can make a killing, I only imagine what people made that were poised to take advantage of those situations. That were in far greater financial positions than I was. I can only fathom what they made. Yeah. And I think that people aren't hurting in terms of money to spend. Yeah. And yeah, no, lower income people, yeah, they're hurting. They're hurting. But I believe the middle class that took advantage of crypto are still reaping the benefits of it. The, the, the dad bod that bought Bitcoin at $8,000 and it went to fucking 60. Yep. That is, you know, and those people that cashed in on that and are still in a profitable position. Yeah. Dude, I think that these people still have money to spend. Yeah. And I think that's the reason why we haven't seen it. They have money to spend. Yeah. And what do you think is going to take them? Like, what do you think it's going to take to drive that out? Or if you think it's going to dry it out at all? Like, do you think we're ever going to hit like a spending slowdown? It's a hard question. You need layoffs, I think. Yeah. I mean, that's the type of hard questions that you guys, that I've heard y'all pose and I'm like, yeah. Yeah. It's hard. I don't know. I could speculate scenarios all day long that I think people could run into, but I think the risky part is anybody that did like an adjustable rate mortgage on their home or they've maxed themselves out on their credit cards or they stretch themselves on car payments. I think it's going to take bankruptcy on people to really, to let that hit home. Like, I think there's like, I don't think homes are going to foreclose. I think this time it's going to be the auto market. I've been saying this for the last year. If you guys were to watch this podcast or NMIC, if you've seen any of my old large cap stuff, a year ago I was talking about how the automotive industry in the US is the next collapse. Yeah. We're just not there yet. We're not there yet and we will be soon. But I think people losing their cars, losing their means of transportation, that's a very real possibility that could for spending habits lower. But truly, that's me grasping for straws at a really desperate point right there. I'm just seeking to answer the question because currently my answer is I don't see it. I don't think it's going to be flowing. Maybe 50% interest rates on revolving credit. The problem is there's just so much money out there that I don't think people even understand. Like, my father does home renovations, kitchens, baths, all that. And he just sold a job to a 38-year-old couple. It's like 500 grand and it was just a full remodel. And it's like, these are not even like loaded people. They have great paying jobs, but there's still just so many people with so much money. But I think what's going to happen is the older generation and then the generation without money, like the younger or lower class or whatever, they're the ones that will get fucked. But everyone else in the middle, it's just going to be business as usual for a lot of people. The older crowd has to worry about the market. If spy tanked another 20%, all the retirees and stuff are screwed. I mean, they have no money for this. I agree. And the long-term investment accounts are the ones that are at risk here. The people that are cussing that 65 to 68, you're not going to retire for another 10 years, probably. You're going to be working until you're 80. I think you're going to be working until you're 80 and you can't depend on that to be a scenario, which, I mean, that's the cold hard truth of it all. I wish there was a way that could change that. You know, the socialist then me wants to say that there is, but the capitalist then me just says, birds up, baby made for your own self. Yeah. To be fair, these guys, most of these people have had a decade plus of like unlimited returns. I mean, it just, if you started, you know, it's just been since the recession, since the financial crisis, it's been put your money in, grow it a shit ton, and then they take it out and they use it. So if they, I kind of feel it. It's a typical American mentality. Yeah. It's like, I can take care of it tomorrow. Then tomorrow never comes. Yeah. And they just put it off and put it off and put it off and put it off and put it off. And then one day when the grim reapers knocking, we ain't ready. And that, that's the, you know, if you always think you can do it tomorrow, you're never going to do it. Yeah. What do you guys think about? I saw Ford came out with a new patent. Basically that means if you don't make your car payments, it drives that motherfucker back to the dealership. What do you guys think when you saw that? Like just, I heard Joe mentioned the auto industry, which has been a theory that would has been kind of like projected for a little bit by like various people as well. And I haven't heard too much about it. And then when Joe brought it back up just there, I kind of like thought about it again. And then I thought, hmm, that's interesting this week. I literally saw a headline about Ford making that patent for that vehicle repossession to drive itself back. It's going to put tow truck drivers out of work. Yup. Dude, I, I just want to take this real quick. I absolutely love it. I think it's not only what should like if technology was there years ago, it should have happened because it's just a quick story. When I bought my last car, I'm sitting there with my buddy who owns the dealership. And I'm sitting next to like his office is right next to the finance office. Right. And I hear this kid in there buying a 21 Corvette C8. Right. He's financing it. The monthly payment was like $2,300. Holy shit. But he just wanted it, you know, and not only that, he had a shit interest rate because there was already high interest rates. And I'm sitting there thinking like, this is insane. He's going to lose that car. So at the end of the day, if you're dumb enough to go buy a car where you have a car payment that is like ridiculous amounts of money that you can't afford, you deserve your car to drive its ass back to the dealership. And that is the biggest wake up call you can get. That's a big, you're welcome there from the Ford. I love it. I think it's hilarious. Yeah. Well, Ford was the one of the few automakers that during the 2000 something whatever 2008 price or whatever the hell it is 2001. They were the one, they were the one automaker that didn't take the bailout. Right. Yep. And I've always said that Ford has been on the, they've always had a pulse on the market that unlike any other, unlike any other automaker Ford has always and not just because I worked for Ford in the past, but they've always had a close pulse on the market and they've always positioned themselves to take advantage of it. Yeah. The one, if an automaker is filing a patent for cars to repossess themselves, then what do you think that that says the automaker thinks about all the decisions that these dealers made and the finance companies made during 21 and 22? What do you think? We think it's probably trash, right? It's probably trash with these people paying $10,000, $15,000 over sticker on a car and getting, you know, an interest rate, but their payments are $1,200 a month. When you start running DTI and PTI debt income payment to income numbers, you're going to discover that $1,400 and $1,200 is the maximum allowed amount for a person that makes nearly six figures a year. And sometimes, in most cases, not sometimes, in most cases, anyone that bought after 21 is, they have a car payment near $1,200 right now, $900, $1,100 and they did not buy like fag wagons like James drives. Wait, can we edit that out somehow? Do I have a guide I can edit that out? Oh my God. Yeah, you do right here. I want to, I just want to tell a quick story. Just from that. My car will repossess itself and go fucking packed. So I learned about car repossession from a young age where my best friend, he went out and he bought a BMW. Everyone told him it was a bad idea. I told him it was a bad idea. Used BMW. We're graduating high school or so. I believe we just graduated or so. And so anyway, he goes out, he buys this like used BMW. He's like, man, like, don't worry about it. Like I'll be able to make the payments. I'm fine. And meanwhile, he was working at McDonald's. That's where he was working at. And so anyway, he had had it for a good like two years or so, but there was still a lot more to pay on that loan, obviously. And it happened and I was home from university. And all of a sudden the tow truck fucking came and took his car. I said, where the fuck your car go, bro? And it was gone. And so that's when I fucking quickly learned. You know, like obviously, but like I quickly fucking learned that if you don't make those payments, the tow truck driver is a coming. And he's like the little grim reaper. And also I want to say one more thing is I was watching someone last night and he said, if we have a recession in, you know, let's say six months, like an actual recession, like whatever we're in now, like it could be a recession, could not be like, like when people, you know, stop questioning it and are looking around at themselves and saying, okay, we are in a recession, you know, that might have that might incline the Fed to start, you know, taking a bit of a different strategy where they start, you know, lowering rates again and they start saying, okay, well, we're going to save the economy or whatever we're going to lower the rates, we're going to print some more money. If that type of scenario happens, do you think it could be kind of the bottom of the housing market right now? Because if they start cutting rates or whatever they do, you know, I mean, that would signal housing to start kind of going up. So if that type of scenario happens, could it be that this right now is the bottom of the housing market? Do you think? No. And I get where you go. I see where you go on, but I think it comes down to making homes unaffordable for buyers on the lending side. So in the U.S., the maximum DTI on the back end that a mortgage wants to have is like 54%. And what it's going to take for that to really take effect is they're going to have to make interest rates so high that buyers can't qualify based on income, no matter the credit. They can't qualify based on the lending standards. So they literally have to raise rates to a point where they can't. Like people that are trying to sell their homes, the only people that can buy them are people that are paying cash. Or putting a boatload of money down to get that payment underneath there. Because, for example, if you use like an 8% rate, if you use 8% on a $600,000 home, you're probably going to be about $5,200 a month. And if the payment is $5,200 a month, you have to make nearly $200,000 a year on paper before taxes to qualify for that home. And there's plenty of people that make less than $150 that are still qualifying for half a million dollar homes. So I think what you have to do is you have to price out the buyers. And you're not going to do that with the home prices. You're going to have to do it with the interest rates. You're going to have to do it to where you can't lend. We can't lend any more money because people can't qualify based on the terms. What's happening here in Boston? If the Fed prints money again, to talk to your point here, if the Fed prints money again, the interest rates are going to drop again, and the housing is going to rally again. Yeah, exactly. We need years that this goes stagnant. Three years, I'm thinking. We need until 2026 at a minimum that the real estate market just goes. Yeah. If the Fed did, for some reason, in the next 12 months, go and print money and just go fucking crazy and be like, we went too far, backpedal, we did the wrong thing, the economy is not good, we're feeling the effects of these rate hikes right now. It was delayed. We made a mistake. We're sorry. We're going to print money again. That would signal the housing. We're going to rally. To rally. So theoretically, if we did go into a recession and the Fed pivoted with that, that could signal maybe, like if that is big. World War III is coming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. World War III is coming if that happens. We'll delay a recession for a few years, but then the recession that eventually hits us, like I think what you're getting at is eventually the recession that hits us is going to be so damning and drastic, it's going to be worse than 2008. They've got to stick to the plan. They've got to stick to it. If they don't stick to it, it's going to be destruction. I don't think Jerome Powell is going to move on this one. I think he's, like I said in the past, he's not going to lose to inflation. Like Volcker is his hero. I will stick with it. He's not going to give up on this fucker. And he can't because the problem is we're already at a point where people are breaking and we haven't even really started, which is crazy. Like it feels like, I'll think about Senator Warren comments. Yep. Senator Warren's comments, like you don't feel any remorse for the risk of two million jobs. And he's like, he didn't even, he's like, this is what's happening here. People in Boston, like these are, this is a nice area. Right. These people have jobs. They can save money. They can't afford shit. They can't afford a house. You can't afford a car. And we literally are at the tip. I feel like this is 10 years in the making of us catching up to ourselves and like trying to fix this overspending problem that we have here. Again, people who make 200 grand are trying to buy a million dollar plus houses that probably can't really afford it. I mean, I've heard some crazy stories. And right now here, this is the problem. People who have overpaid for houses in this area will refuse to sell their house for any less. So if they've already overpaid, they need to make a certain amount to get out of it and clear it free. But most people can't afford that cost. So now, like you said, houses are just sitting there and buyers are already getting priced out. And we're at what? 6% interest rates? And if they keep going? But here's the case. Here's the case, dude. So the house that we have in Texas. Texas is far less expensive than any of these other surrounding areas. Hence why everybody from California and New York started to crowd in. Hence why I'm leaving. Like all these Californians and New York people with their, never mind. They just got overpopulated. It is overfreaking populated. And it's proof that every single year during the extremes of summer and the extremes of winter in Texas that we're losing power in Dallas, Fort Worth, Metroplex. That should not happen. That should not happen. And in my opinion, it's because there are too many freaking people. And what they do in DFW, they don't build more neighborhoods, like builders will come in and they'll build a bunch of suburb homes. They build high rises. They build multifamily 200, 300, 400 unit properties that are just sucking energy out of everything. And they're book solid. Yeah. And because summer, summer of 22 was, and dude, I was like, I had a real estate license in the summer of 22. And dude, all I did was just write contracts from home with my house. That's crazy. Didn't even have to do anything. Writing contracts with people that are going to rent houses. Because bro, that is, I was talking to Tyler, the moderator, the junior mod in MIC. And I was talking to him today. We had a meeting today. And one of the things I was talking about was like, dude, I know a lot of people want to become a day trader and they want to do that forever. But that's a commitment. That's a lifelong commitment that is your job and that is what you're going to do. For me, what worked best for my personality was using day trading to leverage myself into other avenues that allow me the time to spend with my family and the time that I don't have to be 150% on the screens every day of my life. Yeah. And that's a hard level to operate it every day. That's a difficult level to operate in order to make that massive amount of money. Now 21 and 22, dude, that's what I was doing because I was like, now's the time to push the freaking pedal. And I was pushing as best I could. And when it was done, honestly, now, dude, I'm burnt out. I am burnt out. And because of the avenues that I leveraged myself into using day trading, I'm making more. I've made more in these first three months. It's not even a third month in. I'm making more in the first three months than I did in the first nine months of 22. Yeah. And interest rates are terrible. Market is terrible, but I leveraged myself out of the market in my opinion at the perfect time. And when the market improves, I'll be right back in it. Yeah. But I'm not going to fight this shit. Yeah. I'm not going to fight it and I'm not going to keep, I'm not, I'm not going to fight it and I will continue to tell people don't fight it. Yeah. Yeah. I went off on a tangent. I honestly have no idea what the question was. No, that was, no, honestly, that's good because I think one, it's like a massive lesson that like learning to trade is like anything else in the world where it's just, it's a skill to have that you can turn it on and off like a faucet. Yeah. You want to come back to the well, you can turn that shit on and you can make it an, a metric fuck ton of money, but the reality. I remember what I was talking about. But the reality is if you don't leverage yourself, as Joe was saying, into other avenues, when times like this happen because right now, even for small caps, which is what we trade, the market's okay. It's not amazing. So like, you know, if you're making millions of dollars prior in this year, you're making a hundred grand or whatever. Like that. You're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. It's, but it's, that's it. You have the ability to do more. But that small cap life, that small cap life, you got to be a hundred and fifty percent at the screens, like all the time. Every day. So if you guys have ever watched that dude, that has like GP penitentiary life on YouTube, he's less, less something. I love that dude's attitude. I just think it's, it just cracks me up. How just like, he's always at like 120, 150 of his personality. He's always pumped and dude to operate like that and never relax whatsoever. Right. I mean, I got a wife and three kids growing two dogs and trying to make moves and all the other avenues. We got to, we can't ever get any amount of time back no matter how much money we spend, we can't get any amount of time back. And so I think the most important thing in life is spend as much time as you can making memories more than making money. Because at the end of the day, when you leave this earth, the only thing that's left behind is the memory, not the money that she gets pissed away real quick. So I'm like, dude, leverage yourself into atmospheres where you're going to make an impact that people really know. Yeah. But what I was, what I was talking about before I got off on the tangent of the diversification. Sorry. Was the fact that homes are so less expensive in Texas. And we're selling our health. I know, right? Like, here's a fun back game problem. Yeah. Not even connected. Sorry. So like the properties in Texas, they're so much less expensive than California and New York, right? Then all these inflated areas that people flock to Texas to come to. And then all of a sudden there's an influx of the population, everything. Right now, our house is on the market. We bought it in 2019 for $228,000. $9,000. $228,000. Quarter million dollars. Dude, that is nothing on a home. And right now we're listing it for $350,000. And I'm like, as I'm sitting here doing this, there have been two people walk through the home in two days. It's been on the market for two days. This is what I'm telling you. It's been on the market for two days. And we have had 15 different buyers walk through it in two days. Yeah. 15. Ready? Of those 15, 30% have committed to offers. That's crazy. That's what I'm telling you. Lower priced homes are still selling like hotcakes. If they're updated, like our house is updated. You guys, we talked about my kitchen renovation, the fact that I had to live in a non-renovated put together kitchen for a year because of like James, the freaking contractors are so backlogged that it doesn't matter what you want to pay them. They're like, you can pay me whatever, but you're going to get online. And dude, it has the most updates and the most everything. And it's going to sell fast because it's a beautiful home. If it wasn't a beautiful home, it might sit there a little longer and give people to think about it, but it's drawing people that are ready to buy out of the woodwork that we're just sitting there waiting for the home to come on the market. Yeah. And we're going to be, I think we're going to be in a multiple offer situation. And so these people are not priced out. So back to what Harry was asking was, dude, we've got to price them out. But they better not get priced out before I'm able to sell. Let them fucking buy and then everybody else. I love it. I love it. I think one important thing that everybody can just get fucked. No, I think that's one important thing. Sorry. That's the capitalist in me. Yeah, exactly. The socialist in me, which is everybody's 401ks were doing better, but the capitalist in me is like, nope, birds up. I'm out. I don't have that in me. I think one thing that Joe mentioned that was like really important that like maybe we didn't talk about enough was that, you know, and also James mentioned it as well was the fact that when you're a trader, you know, you got to strike when the iron's hot. And when the iron's not hot, it's not the time to be pressing, you know, I'm talking to a lot of people who are like long traders and that might see and they're like, Hey, man, like I've been having a little bit of difficulty. Like are the patterns not working? I'm like, man, the market is choppy right now. We don't have a whole lot of like really bullish sentiment or really bear sentiment. One day we might get a really good day. One day we might get all day faders. Like I talked with James about this daily. And that's why I've also been working on some different strategies to just kind of run my trading on all the pilot too, you know, some different swing strategies, some different, you know, overnight hold stuff like that, things that I've been kind of like looking and just keeping an eye on because, you know, I think for me as well, the day ones are good. And yes, you can, you can make money doing that, you know, that's great. But, you know, you can also make a lot more money with like the thing is, is that I'm trying to make more money with as little stress as possible, you know, and usually those two things don't go together. But, you know, at this point in my trading career, that's why I'm trying to get into some swing stuff and to get into some multi-day holds and to get into other things like that because, you know, as far as as fun as it is to be long in the day ones and waking up every morning, slamming buttons, you know, I've kind of gotten to a point where I just want to, you know, try something different and kind of run it on autopilot and do some things like, you know, Joe said, whereas like, you know, I don't know. I just feel like that's where my trading is kind of starting to go just because like of the way the market is. And I don't want to be fucking trying to long day ones when spies getting fucking crushed every day and everyone's complaining about the market sentiment and people not spending and, you know, longing into these fucking stuff moves, you know, it was really fun in COVID. It was really fun when I was on the come up and now it just seems like we're in a situation where it's just like, the range isn't really there. The volume isn't really there. You wake up and everyone's writing the Zeds in chat. Maybe you might get one random fucking halter like we saw with OCEA and stuff like that. But I was watching OCEA, you know, back before it even ran a long time ago, you know, and, you know, I'm still new to a lot of this stuff. But, you know, I've been trying to kind of like dig deep into filings and stuff like that and just, you know, look at some other strategies just because I want to position myself in the best position, you know, going into these kind of market conditions, you know, this is what it is. I'm not going to fight it, but that's what I've been kind of working on, you know. Let me, I want to tie this all together and wrap up on one last topic. You need to make yourself non-replaceable in every, that's why it's nice to have a million different strategies in trading, like have different ways to trade, different sources of income. Because at this moment in time, the biggest subject out there that everyone talks about is AI. And in jobs, it could be trading. It could be in real estate. We don't know. There are a million jobs where we don't know what AI is going to start stepping in and doing and taking from us in a weird, non-kind of, you know, end of the world kind of way. But I know that's something we've been talking a lot about. And, you know, Joe, like how do you, how do you see AI coming into our world and like affecting jobs and stuff like that? Because we're already at a point where there's so many less people working and less people working on skills. Like we see it at MIC. There's not as many people, we see it on the internet everywhere, interested in obtaining these skills, like trading or real estate. They just want free everything. And do you see a point where AI comes in and just takes it all from them and there's nothing left, no diversification that can be had? So I use AI every day of my life now because it helps me eliminate all those tasks that are time-consuming and just eat up brain power. And that to me allows me to be able to create opportunities for myself because that's a big distinction between our intelligence as a human intelligence and an artificial intelligence is artificial intelligence cannot create something original. Artificial intelligence has to rely on previously given data to create something completely new. It cannot do that. If you look at all the inquiries like from, from like chat GPT and mid-journey and all of these huge AI bit Jasper AI, they all require data to feed from. They cannot create something truly original. So I think the people that use AI to free up their time, to create something truly original in either a business or in their own life or whatever it is, I think those are going to be the people that are most productive. And I have a question for you guys. What do you think about these YouTubers that are creating AI bots? Like trading, trading, probably not going to work. You know, I have a hard time. Is it AI though? Yeah, but I mean, I have a. It's not AI. It's smart. Trading algorithms that existed for 20 years. Yeah, exactly. These, these are not AIs. The only thing that's writing the code is the AI, but it's not improving on itself. It requires a trader that has a working knowledge of the market to take the AI and tell it what to write. Now, could the AI eventually learn from those inputs and do something? Yeah, maybe, maybe, but it requires somebody that has the working knowledge. These are not AI bot. Think about the services that sell algorithms, think about these guys on Twitter that have always said, well, my system is fully automated. That's not AI. It's just an algorithm. Yeah, exactly. Our AI learns from itself. AI bots do not exist in trading because it cannot learn from itself on the retail side, institutional side. I can't speak to that. I have no idea if an AI exists on the institutional side and it would not be a surprise if it did. 100% it was, I think. But we throw around this AI term in day trading too much. Too much. You've got people like Humble creating these like AI bots to trade. No, it's just an algorithm that they use chat DPP to write. It's still an algorithm that people like, for example, Triforce Traders has been writing for 15 years. The dude's been writing code for 15 years successfully and selling those algorithms. They're not AI. They don't change. They don't modify without human input. Renaissance has been around forever and they're all code. They're all algorithms, but my opinion is if right now we're so green and I don't want to say, in my opinion, it doesn't happen anytime in the immediate future, but there will be a day where in my opinion, day trading will be a thousand times harder than what it is as a human now, because how in God's name will you compete with something that's always getting better and always adjusting itself and can operate faster than any of us ever can? Well, I think the thing is, is that in order for these people, in order for these institutions to make money, in order for everyone to make money, they need retail pumping the money in so they can suck it out, you know? And if you are creating an environment... You've got to have done, matey. Yep. If you're creating an environment where retail can't win and retail can't feel like they can win, then you're going to have no one trading and no one playing the game. And you need people to play the game and entice them. You need that one big runner a month that keeps all those longs vying. And you need... Well, the stock market will always be there. And this is how I feel, because no matter what, there's always going to be the big companies, right? And as long as the stock markets open, there's going to be people who also can't afford to buy the Apples, the Amazons, the Googles and all that stuff. So what are they going to look to? They're going to look for the dumb money. They're going to look at the small caps and the mid caps. So they'll always be the people, and I don't put anyone's job down, there's always going to be the mechanics. There's always going to be the people that work at stores who just can't... They think they're going to buy that one stock. The idea of pumping cheap stocks has been around for a hundred years. That's not going anywhere, in my opinion. But at some point, they lose a lot now. They lose 90% now. That's going to be 99% this time. They're not... That's how I feel. The competition's already there. Now let's talk about something along that side. These things that people are generating that they're like that... I forget the YouTuber's name, but he's like that young kid. The haze... The haze... Whatever. I can't pronounce it. He calls it chatGTP. And it pisses me to fuck off when I hear it and say chatGTP. Can't even get it right, man. Oh my gosh. Come on. Anyway, so you did... chatGTP. Here we go. And... So the dude... I watched a video of this guy, and he claims to have made an AI bot. And he did this scenario where the AI bot wrote a strategy that basically said buy when it's oversold and sell when it's overbought using RFI. That strategy has been written in a book a hundred times. So all AI did was reference the written database that it's received, grabbed that strategy that someone created and fed it back to that person. That's not artificial intelligence. That's just freaking queries. That's Google. Yeah. That was faster research that was done by a language model that had the ability to read it back and understand it at a better level than Google could. And... the difference though is that we as humans have agency. Which is the right to choose. The right to make a choice for ourselves. We have intelligence and agency. The right to choose. And if we have intelligence and agency in the right to choose, we're going to choose to try to... let's say the outcome of a situation that we made a choice on was not good. We are going to... we have the ability as humans to choose a different outcome in hopes that future outcomes are going to be good. Right? AI does not have that without human input right now. And none of these bought. Huh? Right now, yeah. Yeah. Sure, it could have that chance now. But that's why I think it's so important that if if there's somebody that fears AI taking their job like Stout Park, serves, if they feel it's going to take their job, figure out how to leverage it in your job. Make yourself valuable because I fully believe that there are going to be people to understand how to manipulate AI in order to use it in their jobs and that's going to become a skill that gets monetized. Yeah. If you don't know how to use AI you're not going to get the job when the dude next to you knows how to use AI to get rid of all of those remedial tasks that take forever and to leave you up for more creative process optimization and creative business ventures. Yeah. I was talking to someone in real estate and they have their own small real estate office and they just hired a kid who believes that he can work with AI and basically get him to eliminate all of his office workers and not real estate agents, not people who are going to sell the houses but the people who are writing the contracts the people who are emailing people to set up appointments he believes that that's what they will be able to do. They will get rid of everybody. Got it. So here's a question that I was watching one of the recorded podcasts and James was like I disagree with Joe and so now I have to bring it to his face because I'm looking at him in the eyeballs. Now you're fucking listening to all the accusations so James and I and Harry all three of us had a discussion in the past and I just want to pose this question because I just want to hear your feedback on it. The situation was do you think AI is going to overtake Google and I basically said Google has so much data they just haven't monetized it in an AI format they have more data than chat GPT does they have more access to more data than chat GPT ever could but what James said was that versus Googling we can go to something like chat GPT and Google the answer Google the question and get an immediate response like that but I just lost the headphone I don't know if that was a tooth or something I'm all hyped on this side man it's just like blah blah blah we're going to have to get the editor to like focus in on that as it falls down in this time stamp because that was pretty good but how do you know that the response the AI is giving you is the right answer okay so how do you know so without research through Google I can go first through different sources how do you know that's the right answer this is where I actually just listened to a really good podcast on this it was the all-in podcast and they were talking about that however the problem with AI right now is it is it really can be at the discretion of the creator of the AI you can almost you can almost let like we're seeing it in a political view we've seen people ask the AI questions about Joe Biden or Trump and it'll answer positively about Biden and then about Trump it'll either be negative or it won't respond or whatever so we're already seeing instances instances like that and I think that that is going to eventually entail its own sort of like government agency that is like the truth of AI like it's going to have its own uh I don't want to say ministry of truth but at some point if the if AI is going to be as big as everyone thinks it is then it has to be a more trusted source but now how can you trust with Google because I feel as Google is when you type into Google depending on your searches and everything like that like if you're a staunch Republican I feel like your searches are going to be more geared towards your viewpoint just as everything on the internet is yeah so I agree so but but I think the problem is like you're saying and this is where after we had one after I gave my point and I heard this I started to change my stance a little bit is that right now on Google you can still make a choice you can choose the article you can see something and get away from it AI is just going to generate you an answer and if that's what you end up believing then you don't have any other choice to choose but see this is what I'm talking about that's why we have the agency our responses on this in our stances we have the agency to choose what we take is the source of truth so if you GP chat GPT to answer which is what I do every freaking day now I'm not asking it ampers but for example a lot of what I do at the right copy you know I do UX stuff I build I build sites I build stuff like that and a lot of that is putting in word that dude took free eight to come up with a freaking paragraph in my head just like that time and it eats up valuable time so all I do is I go to chat GPT and I say this is a page that's about blah blah I want to write a brief description about this header and it goes like done there we go now I can plug it in I can read from that I can optimize from that but it's using my input to go from there so we have the agency to choose if you're going to search and answer a question you're going to search a question and chat GPT and you want to validate its truth what's the first thing you're going to do what are you going to do I'm going to Google it I'm going to go to Google that's the problem you're going to Google it because the database is billion of gigabytes of data compared to chat GPT less than one terabyte what's to say people don't start just choosing to believe chat GPT instead of choosing the option what if this is the what if to give you some thought and this is the video podcast too so write it in the comments I want to hear what people think what if Google stops feeding what you want to see what if they stop based on AI tailoring your searches to what they think you're going to want just give you the fire hydrant what do you think is going to happen people are just going to go to another fucking source I don't know people what's going to be the source though I don't know as twitter they'll go to some random place I don't know where the fuck they'll go they'll go on facebook they'll go from twitter facebook twitter go till they want to feel validated what do you feel gives you any what do you feel gives you a source of truth like if you ask a question and somebody tells it to you how do you know it's true my mom says it's true it's like go back through your own belief system it filters back into your belief like how do you believe things to be true the only way is that from your point of view how you navigated life your belief system have you ever read the book have you ever read the book from George Orwell in 1984 yeah I read that in high school read it again read it again and consider today I think that dude was very very very very right but he's just off on the timeline by about 80 years just like the recession just kind of but anyway write that in the comments guys everybody that's watching that's anybody that listens to it write it in the comments to what you guys think what it would be like if Google did not tailor your searches based on its own data that it has read from you then how are we going to decide what the source of truth because if you go to a political side of the political view you've got the republican side this is just us right this is just us US only makes up about it makes up less than 17% of the world's population like a tiny fraction of us are republicans and democrats a tiny fraction the rest of the world what's that source of truth Kim Jong-un Kim Jong-il what are they on what are we on now Il-oon son I don't know what yeah I don't know what what level we're at there maybe Zelensky will be a source of truth maybe Putin will just be like and then that's the that they were like there we go okay fine cool and I think that you know Trump was the disruptor of the of the whole system he pointed out how many untruths there were Trump was a moron an idiot beautiful businessman very talented man but he's an idiot just because I support that side of it that he pointed out a bunch of untruths it just made the rest of it consider what we're receiving from the media what we're receiving from any other sources of knowledge that we consider what that's a true way how do we prove it the truth for me when I have a question I've got to prove it with math or science now if it comes from from a point of like logic and ethics yeah that's my agenda on this podcast Jesus I wasn't headed there actually where do you think I was or not so I'm going to create a spin-off podcast where I talk about that though I want to be on that podcast talk about my gender but I do have to wrap this up in a second but I do want to say I don't think we're that far from kind of what we were saying like how do you identify truth people just choose like you said people choose their own truths and that's how you can tell we use COVID as an example people chose to believe it whatever they wanted about COVID but the virus whether it was for whether it was as deadly as it was told to us or if it wasn't if math worked or not people are at this point now where it doesn't matter and I guess this can go back to AI because you're just going to google you're going to search for me I'm not saying I do but you're searching JAPT is wearing a mask good or bad you're going to choose to believe it add an additional query to it just add an additional question okay chat GPT thank you for that answer please provide me with some studies that have proven that is correct people don't do it though we have to have some kind of study that proves that that was the situation or you're just going to take it at face value and that's the end of it but the first thing we're going to do is I just have waited so long for this moment and it's so sweet it's so sweet I just wanted to go all right James what are you going to do if you don't know if that's the truth he's be like google it I'm going to revive asked jves and that will be my ministry dude I don't give a shit jves was the original he was the original what is the what is the dude the adventures Tony Stark's assistant oh my god that's bad how do I not know it's just because I'm putting it to us like this oh my gosh Harry come on the ai is assistant Tony Stark's assistant he's going to say pepperpots James is already on it help her Jarvis I'm such a herb God I'm a real life NPC God bless America oh man sorry blue shirt guy over here didn't comprehend it Harry just quick back story I say now anytime you're just having a moment and you're just like a dumbass you're just an NPC now you're just like a non-player that's my favorite shit bro okay we'll finish on this Harry I'll just tell you back story real fast take 30 seconds then I'll let you guys bound I have to pee so bad boys she's gonna a year and a half ago James calls me or I called James I was like what's up man can just check it in like a year and a half ago I called him and he's like you know man he's been to the Apple store and got some new stuff and I was like oh yeah what do you get and he was like Airpond and he goes but I feel like I shouldn't have bought him I'm really having bars and more and I was like why well it's a store and I had to sales and I said you know my my Airpond's gonna have it I hate that they don't have a battery life they always lose connection and it's just I'm just not happy with them so I mean what are the new ones like and he's like well the new ones that have worse battery life they still lose connection quite often they're pretty terrible and then James the NPC just goes oh that sounds great perfect I said I said that like I was a sim like I was like oh holy shit oh you put wires back on them too oh my gosh I love that I could play yo-yo with them I bought the Airpods and then I got the cord so I don't lose them that's actually what I did alright I'm fucking wrapping it up thank you Joe for coming thank you guys we'll talk soon guys see ya