 pan oedd Fybr y hŷrplogol yn yma'r Gweinacht ddangote brydwyr cyèmefynol sydd wedi bod yn gweithio ddangote archwilio am hynny ac yn gweithio gynllunio ar y brydewisio ar gyllid yn clywed arddangos y clywed ar gyfer y pryw ddangote, oedd y Prif Weinid sadness yn cael eu gwair o'r blynyd yn esbygwyd o'i gwirio brydwyr ac cyffredinogol i gael eu hyferjinol ar brydwyr cyffe ynghylch ac mae'r Fybr ychydigol dechreu'r brydwyr. The President acknowledged that Nigeria's economy had faced significant challenges over the year and stressed the need for African countries to unite, integrate their economies, eliminate trade barriers and rally their populations to achieve agenda 2063 for the continent's prosperity. The big question after that inauguration obviously is what about our government-owned refineries. To discuss this with us is Fineface Dumnamene. He is the Executive Director of Youth and Environmental Advocacy Centre and also joining us is Aiyo Agwaragi. He is an oil and gas expert. Thank you so much gentlemen for joining us and good evening. Thank you for having me. Good evening to you. Thank you for having me. Good evening. Yes, I'll start with you Fineface. Interestingly a lot of people were wondering why government was so excited and I mean it's okay to throw your weight behind the richest man in one of the richest men in Africa who has of course achieved a feat that not even government was able to do in so many years and I'm not just talking about the government of President Mahmoud Buhari but successive government but the bigger question is what happens to our other refineries including the modular refineries that government had promised that they would revive and start so that we can also start having our own crude oil instead of spending monies to import these crude into the country. For someone who is into this particular conversation and we've had conversations around the oil and gas sector why do you think that government is supporting the Dangote refinery but then tight lipped about our refineries even though there's been monies that have been earmacked for turnaround maintenance year in and year out? I think government is excited because the shame has been removed from the face of the government of the day because it's been a very big shame to us as a people, a country that is one of the largest producer of crude oil in Africa who will not be able to refine its own product. I think commissioning this particular facility right now is something that I think has been able to address the issue of subsidy for which we are suffering in this country, for which we have had a lot of corruption around it and the government excitement is not really from their mind because it is a shame to Nigeria as a country that we will not fix our refineries and be able to refine personal products that people can buy and that can be a country but we export this crude oil outside and then import the refined products into the country after creating jobs in those countries and then we are unable to fix our refineries. As it is now, Dangote has promised to, you know, from the capacity of the refinery he has put in place is going to refine what is going to be sufficient for Nigeria and then excess will remain for Syria to other parts of Africa and of course other countries that may have it. So I think that what has happened at this point in time is a welcome development but then we need to still look inwards to the issue of revamping our own, you know, state-owned refineries. The two-potackle refineries, the warrior refineries and the Gardner refineries, they still have to come on call. The fact that we have had a private refinery in place does not mean that we should not have the state-owned refineries in place because if we should only allow the Dangote refineries to produce then we are going to be left at the mercy of the price of a private refinery that is producing in the country. So I think that what we have for refineries fixed is going to address the issue of competition within the system and I also do not want the government to be deceived that because the Dangote refinery has come on stream and because we have now had, you know, our main refineries may also come on stream based on the turn around maintenance that is going on, that we should not give modular refinery licenses for the youth who are involved in artisanal criminal refining anymore. Because the government may be thinking that because Dangote is going to produce sufficient for the country and the main refinery is also coming on board that the modular refinery for artisanal refineries is no longer necessary. I will tell the government that if they think that way then it is no longer very, very necessary thinking that they are having because the youth will not fail to continue to break the pipelines. They will not fail to continue to refine. They will not fail to continue to have the environment polluted in the process and make government to loss revenue because even the crude oil that has been promised in the Dangote today, if they do not give modular refineries licenses to the youth who are involved in pipeline journalism is still going to be a challenge for Dangote refineries to be able to depend on the flow of crude to that particular facility. Because if the pipeline is being vandalized, it will not have enough fees to give to the Dangote refinery. So government should continue to make this possible. And I also know quite well that as we speak today we are having this issue of non-availability of kerosene in our local communities that depend on this product. I don't also know the promise that modular refineries, I mean a Dangote refinery is giving us in terms of being able to produce kerosene. But as we speak today it is the youth who are involved in artisanal refining that are providing crazy for the local community. So government needs to see look at the entire policy, politically and be able to fix this. Dangote said they put the refinery together with 19 billion dollars. Nigeria government has 19 billion dollars more than three times to use some new refineries if they cannot rehabilitate the new ones, the old ones. Interesting. Let me come to you, Mr Abaraby. A year ago the NMPC boss, the GMD, Mr Kiare, was quoted to say that the refineries in Nigeria has had 25 years of bad management. And that was responsible for the poor state of the refineries, 25 years. In other words he inherited these bad refineries. He said this a year ago to an ad hoc committee at the House of Representatives on investigating the refineries in Nigeria. That was an excuse that he gave. This government is about to conclude eight years and he was one of the people who was at that event yesterday applauding Mr Dangote for the feat that he has accomplished. I'd like for us to take a listen to what Mr Kiare had to say and then of course we'll talk about it. Today of this refinery is a defining moment for the energy industry in Nigeria, for the region and on the international scale. It carries the potential to support security of supply for refineried petroleum products and hydrochemicals in Nigeria and the region as clearly articulated by Alati Alikodangote. It opens the possibility of genuine commercial market and step forward in our collective efforts to make key Nigeria a net exporter of petroleum products to the international markets. Isn't this a shame that the NNPC boss was applauding someone else for doing something that it was within the purview of government to have at least revived some of these refineries if not all in the eight years that they've been in government? Mr Biogi, this question is for you. Can you hear me? I think that you cannot hear me. So I'm going to come back to your fine face again. Mr Kiare is saying that he's applauding the feat of Mr Dangote but I'm asking in eight months why have they not been able to at least revive some of these refineries? I think he has no choice but to congratulate Dangote refinery and Dangote himself because what we heard from the launch was that the project was started in 2017 and it was under this particular administration that that project started. This is 2023 and the project is on board. 19 billion is not up to what they spent on subsidy. This is what the NNPC was supposed to be able to do. Now we have the NNPC limited. They would have also taken over and be able to do. It's not rocket science. It's something that I think if they are committed to doing, they will be able to do. This is something that even if you bring in the public-private partnership, they will also be able to make this happen. And I think it's a slap on the face of the government of Nigeria that they will not fix our refineries in eight years of at least the President Muhammadu Bwari administration and they will not also build new refineries. Now the refineries we have are old and obsolete. These are refineries that were built in the 70s and in the 80s. The technology has gone obsolete and they are supposed to set up brand new refineries for the country. Look at what Dangoche said that the refinery that is built has capacity to refine the Nigerian food and food oil from other parts of the world. That is to say it is so modernised that any food oil you put in, it will be able to adjust itself to producing that product and being able to give you what you want. This is what we mean. This is state-of-the-art facility that the government of Nigeria was supposed to put in place. And do not be surprised at the reason why the government of Nigeria and the people within the system have failed to fix our refineries and to build new refineries is because of the so much money they make from the inflated first subsidy that they continue to pay in trillions of Naira. Because a lot of people within the system are allegedly using that particular subsidy regime to enrich themselves. So I think they need to remove this from their face. And I am talking to, and letting the president elect who is taking over on matrix now which is of course my birthday to remember that he is coming to inherit a system that has already failed. He is coming to take over a system that people need him to hit the ground running almost immediately. So we should not only ensure that the refineries that are undergoing turnaround maintenance across the country today are fixed but also be able to build new refineries. That should surpass what Tanguta has been able to build so that we can be able to refine our good work in the country and supply to other countries within the West African subregion and across the world as well. We have the capacity, we have the resources and we can do it. I guess that you are back. Let me ask pose another question. There are people who have also blamed government for trying to do everything saying that government has no business doing business and that some of these facilities should have been privatized years ago. The ambassador administration attempted to do so and of course the other administration came back and reversed it. Femio Tadela was quoted to also say that one of the biggest problems we have and that's why our refineries are still moribond is because we have not allowed ourselves to privatize these refineries and that by now we probably wouldn't have been talking about the things that we're talking about like whether we should remove subsidy or not. But what is your thought on this particular one? I think my thought is privatization is not bad to privatize is not bad but the shady ways we do privatization in Nigeria is a big problem, the shady ways. If not the dangote thing, it's not a bad thing but definitely like a fine face I said earlier, there's going to be monopoly. We celebrate the man for doing what he has been able to achieve but it's a big shame and a big slap on the Nigerian government. But if we privatize the oil industry, the monopoly thing will come in. It's not bad if government's hand is involved. You started by mentioning turnaround maintenance. You see that name and I've known it as maybe like 20, 30 years, 30 something years. This system is rotting. This present refineries that we have, the three refineries that we have now, this national has, cannot, would not be able to function maximally if they are even maintained. They are obsolete. So yeah, they are totally obsolete. I've been in this talk, this business is 2008. I brought in expertise as regarding this thing. We started these nodularies. Thank God Dona Mene is in with YAC and we are working together. So for this present government, the almost outgoing government to not have endorsed the modern refineries to the Nigerian desert, it's a big mistake but I know that the incoming one would pick it up from there. The vice president at some point did say that they were going to adopt, I remember very clearly when vice president, Jamie O'Shiba Joe, had said that they were going to adopt this modular refineries because of course the profile incidences in the Niger Delta, because whether we like it or not, these guys will keep refining, they will keep breaking these pipelines and he said that the best way to put an end to that was to convert them to modular refineries. They did endorse it at some point. I think the execution is what you're talking about here. Yes, yes, I know, I know, yes. The education things they had with fine phase, several meetings, but the implementation, the execution, he, the vice president, has not said anything concerning this subject any longer for a long while. He just kept mute while this illegal refining is going on in the Niger desert, polluting places, destroying crops, aquatic lives are being destroyed and they are just there. The last meeting, the fine phase had with them, we thought the outgoing president who endorsed this document and said, okay, I've done it, but I know the vice president did something about it. He said something, he mentioned it, agreed that it will be done, but what have they done up to now? They have not done anything concerning it, but I believe that they will do something. Presently, with the celebration of the Langodys private refinery, I didn't celebrate, I just, I have the same view that Donemene has. I just said this is a big disgrace to the nation and they are celebrating him like this. They don't know what they are doing. It's a shape on the government. So they need to do the needful now. The incoming government must do the needful immediately, they come in, they must start from where the present one is stopping. Let me push you forward on the incoming administration after May 29, looking at the body language of the president-elect and his deputy. What do you suppose would be their position on pushing for these refineries to either be fixed or sold or maybe building new refineries? Because again, like I said earlier on, the too many problems that we have in this country, Nigeria is highly indebted, but as Fineface said, we have billions and billions of Naira that we've taken and we've not necessarily had anything to show for it. Do you see the tinnable administration pushing or going in that direction or are they going to be resting on their oars being that, hey, we have a dangote refinery? Anything contrary to what is on ground would be, I mean, the Niger Delta would just not be peaceful because they have to follow it to the later. They must do it the way they have met it. Anything contrary would not be accepted by the Niger Delta people. So for us here, from what we are going through, the traditional Niger refineries are no longer needed. The dangote refinery that was just completed was a 10-year span or something like that. The modular concept, if we start today in two, three years, is functional and productive. Everything, the all-by-products of the crude will be gotten in three years, maximum. Everything is concluded. So how many 18 billion dollars do we have, this will have squandered in, what's it called? How many? The margins did with 18 million. Each state can be put on a refinery. The federal government can put a refiner in each state, but anyway, we will lower it down to the Niger Delta states. We shall just put three in three scenarios in the state of each state. That's all we are asking for, and it's doable by this government. The incoming government will just kickstart it and then we know that there will be peace and everybody is happy. Since 150,000 barrel per day, what will it do for us? Nothing. Because the man is a businessman who first takes care of himself, takes up his profit. And my second question is, where will he get his crude from? Is he not the same crude that is coming from the Niger Delta first and foremost? So what are we saying? We need those things, and I believe the incoming government will run with it. That's my belief. Well, I wish we had more time to talk about some of the other issues that surround this and not just about the refineries, but unfortunately, this is the time that we have. Feinfeis Dunamene is the Executive Director Youth and Environmental Advocacy Centre, and Ayo Agbarogi is an oil and gas expert. Thank you so much, gentlemen. We'll keep our fingers crossed and watch what happens after May 29. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me on the program. All right. Well, thank you all for joining us on the show tonight. That's it. We will be back tomorrow talking for development. But don't forget, you can play catch up with all our previous episodes on our YouTube page, which is Plus TV Africa. Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Mary Annacle and do have a pleasant evening. Good night.